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Source: (consider it) Thread: Hell: Hated by the Liberals
Sola Scriptura
Shipmate
# 2229

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Are conservatives in theology an endangered [Confused] species? If conservative voice their opions on either women, gays, the position of scripture, and pro-life issues they are often accused of being old fashioned, anti-women, and homophobic. Such opinions are short-sighted and make me [Projectile] The liberal thought police seems to have taken over much discussion that perhaps the more timid folk like me hide their views. With the hiding of opinions there is dishonesty and a lack of enagement in any serious debate.

[ 15. May 2003, 19:01: Message edited by: Erin ]

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Used to be Gunner.

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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460

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Nope.

Plenty round here.

Of course, we aren't all conservative in politics. So if you start being racist, or sexist, or militarist, or elitist in any way whatsoever, just wait till i bash you over the head with my Bible...

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Ken

L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.

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Merseymike
Shipmate
# 3022

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I'd say almost exactly the opposite. I can't say that I have seen any reticence from conservatives - Reform and FiF are hardly shrinking violets - and my experience is that liberals are much more likely to be accused of being lukewarm, not really Christian, and so on.

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Christianity is not a problem to be solved, but a mystery to be experienced

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mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

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Then again I have seen it claimed that believing an all-male clergy to be the will of God is a product of hatred. I've never seen Liberals accused of hatred.

Reader alexis

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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...

Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
RuthW

liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13

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As a church secretary, I see how much the conservative religious press is putting out - every day we get flyers and catalogs. I'm not worried about their survival.

Do you really think conservatives are timid souls, afraid to speak their minds? 'Cause I haven't noticed this. Yes, they get jumped on a lot. So do liberals. The only way to avoid getting jumped on for your views is to not have any.

Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Wood
The Milkman of Human Kindness
# 7

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quote:
Originally posted by Mousethief:
Then again I have seen it claimed that believing an all-male clergy to be the will of God is a product of hatred. I've never seen Liberals accused of hatred.

Reader alexis

Hell, I've accused liberals of hatred on so many occasions.

Isn't that right, Mike? [Big Grin]

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Narcissism.

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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460

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quote:
Originally posted by Mousethief:
I've never seen Liberals accused of hatred.

You must have abstained from our little Anglican "Forward in Faith" thread.

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Ken

L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.

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mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

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quote:
Originally posted by ken:
quote:
Originally posted by Mousethief:
I've never seen Liberals accused of hatred.

You must have abstained from our little Anglican "Forward in Faith" thread.
True -- I tend to avoid the Anglican navel-gazing threads.

Reader Alexis

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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...

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Bonzo
Shipmate
# 2481

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quote:

The liberal thought police seems to have taken over much discussion that perhaps the more timid folk like me hide their views. With the hiding of opinions there is dishonesty and a lack of enagement in any serious debate.

Gunner, I hadn't realised you were so timid! You must learn to express your opinions. Tell us what you really think. Please don't be dishonest, and please don't be frightened of the liberal thought police!

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Love wastefully

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Og: Thread Killer
Ship's token CN Mennonite
# 3200

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If most of what you hear is liberal, and you are a conservative, then you might feel a little out numbered; if ensuing arguements get heated, you might feel persecuted. This works also for those liberals who are found in the opposite scenario.

Thought police come in all stripes. Anybody who claims otherwise has to get out more. [Wink]

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I wish I was seeking justice loving mercy and walking humbly but... "Cease to lament for that thou canst not help, And study help for that which thou lament'st."

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coffee jim
Shipmate
# 3510

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It's definitely true that 'there ain't no bigot like a liberal bigot'. I find it good fun turning on my 'thought-police chip' - heeey, that sounded a bit racist/sexist/sectarian (or could be spun to sound that way). It's a bit scary when I take it too seriously, though.
Posts: 367 | From: Belfast | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
QLib

Bad Example
# 43

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[Killing me] Gunner - if you're timid, I'm a banana. And if you think that the liberals who disagree with you here are the 'thought police' then you've led a very sheltered life. So liberal opinions make you vomit? So what if your opinions make me vomit? Where does that get us? (apart from an even lower than usual standard of debate). If you don't want to be disagreed with, don't bother posting here. I agree that there's no point in people hiding their opinions - but you seem to want liberals to hide theirs. I mean, what exactly is it you want? Just for everybody to be reasonable and see it your way for a change? [Killing me]

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Tradition is the handing down of the flame, not the worship of the ashes Gustav Mahler.

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Robert Armin

All licens'd fool
# 182

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The Ship is a very lively place, and I'm sure we've all been jumped on at times. If you express any view at all, you can get challenged on it - particularly if your view was expressed tactlessly, or you started making assummptions about other people. So I have to say that this perception of bias is likely to be unfounded, and to arise from our own starting points.

For instance, I am slightly liberal in theology, more so in politics. It seems to me that both of these views get attacked - particularly the last. From where I'm sitting it often feels that anyone less militant than Genghis Khan is doomed to a rough ride. But I reckon that might have something to do with where I'm coming from, particulary as there are lots of Shipmates (such as the OP) who would claim the exact opposite.

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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin

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Sola Scriptura
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This timid creature thanks you for not being too intimidating. Of course without colour the world would be dull and I am greatful I can express some of my hate-filled views with other equally lovely people.

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Used to be Gunner.

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Mad Geo

Ship's navel gazer
# 2939

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I would definitely say that conservatives in theology in the U.S. are far from a dying breed. They are alive and well in what is called "flyover country" in the U.S. (everywhere but California and New York [Big Grin] ).

The media is predominantly located in the latter (CA and NY) so the "liberals" have a very loud voice regarding conservative "hatred", etc.

By the way, I'm religiously liberal, as if any of that matters.

Mousethief:

Navel-gazers are not limited to Anglicans [Big Grin] .

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Diax's Rake - "Never believe a thing simply because you want it to be true"

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Father Gregory

Orthodoxy
# 310

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Dear Ruth

quote:
The only way to avoid getting jumped on for your views is to not have any.
[Killing me] [Not worthy!]

I am not sure what conservative means. I am extremely conservative on doctrine, wildly radical on incorporating truths from other disciplines, crazily liberal on certain ethical issues and impossibly fuzzy on what God does or doesn't do, (he gives me my marching orders ... not the other way round).

Does this make me a liberal conservative or a conservative liberal? [Confused] Maybe it makes me a cross between Rowan Williams, Helder Camara, Hans Ur Von Balthasar and Vladimir Lossky. [Snigger] (I have deliberately chosen modern witnesses).

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Yours in Christ
Fr. Gregory
Find Your Way Around the Plot
TheOrthodoxPlot™

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Elizabeth Anne

Altar Girl
# 3555

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quote:
Originally posted by Mousethief:
Then again I have seen it claimed that believing an all-male clergy to be the will of God is a product of hatred. I've never seen Liberals accused of hatred.

Reader alexis

A perfect example. You see "the will of God", I see carefully perfumed misogyny disguised as the will of God. Whatever. To each his or her own. (Uh-oh! Inclusive language alert!)

Could what I just said be perceived as hatred? Depends on whom you ask. It's all in the eye of the beholder.

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Born under a bad sign with a blue moon in my eyes...

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Flausa

Mad Woman
# 3466

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One of the things that I enjoy about the Ship is the tremendous diversity and that every position is fair game for a shoot out. I have no problem seeing "liberals" and "conservatives" duke it out, as long as people are debating the issues and not attacking individuals. Honestly, no matter how "liberal" or "conservative" you are, there is always going to be someone who thinks you are taking too strong of a stand or not taking a strong enough stand.

I once had a professor tell me that he was a passionate middle-of-the-roader. He was an environmental ed professor who worked for mosquito control. To his "environmentally-minded" friends, he was was too conservative. To his "conservative" friends, he was a tree-hugging hippy. He got verbally accosted wherever he went. Couldn't win for losin'

Anyway, I say "liberal" or "conservative", post away! In the immortal words of Voltaire, "I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." (forgive me if I've misquoted slightly).

Posts: 4610 | From: bonny Scotland | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
Assistant Village Idiot
Shipmate
# 3266

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It depends on where you are. I have certainly seen churches where you will be thought unwashed if you believe in liberal anything -- theology, politics, social concerns. And churches where any mildly conservative opinion goes over like a turd in the punchbowl.*

At work, we few conservatives (about 2%) pretty much all know each other. In department meetings, people keep forgetting there is a conservative present and will say the most outrageous things about us -- then notice me in stuttering embarrassment. You get to know what people really think when they believe only the like-minded are present. (You should hear what Mormons say about us when they think only fellow LDS are present!)

*Sad. We had to throw almost half the batch out.

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formerly Logician

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mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
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quote:
Originally posted by Elizabeth Anne:
You see "the will of God", I see carefully perfumed misogyny disguised as the will of God. Whatever. To each his or her own. (Uh-oh! Inclusive language alert!)

Could what I just said be perceived as hatred? Depends on whom you ask. It's all in the eye of the beholder.

I didn't say Liberals were hateful; I said they accused conservatives of being hateful. As you just did me -- "misogyny" means "hatred of women."

Reader Alexis

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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...

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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468

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quote:
Originally posted by Mad Geo:
I would definitely say that conservatives in theology in the U.S. are far from a dying breed. They are alive and well in what is called "flyover country" in the U.S. (everywhere but California and New York [Big Grin] ).

Oh, we have them. We just hide 'em real well.

Along with the smokers.

[Snigger]

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

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JimT

Ship'th Mythtic
# 142

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quote:
If conservative voice their opions on either women, gays, the position of scripture, and pro-life issues they are often accused of being old fashioned, anti-women, and homophobic.
Gunner, you shy creature, your first post to me was that "people who don't believe in the Virgin Birth but do believe other things are clever dicks." You have proven yourself the cleverer of we two dicks, my friend: you are the one who must cower in fear of my wrathful liberal slurs. Nice job!

[Killing me]

You and other conservatives will not draw fire for "any opinion on women," just one: that God does not intend them to become priests. Try saying that because women have been born and bred to be more sociable than men that they are actually more suited for the priesthood than men. See who calls you names then!

The same goes for "opinions on gays." There is only one opinion that will draw liberal fire: that they are sinners with a perverse desire that is at odds with God's plan for normal human behavior. Have you some other view of them that has wrongly drawn fire from liberal bigots?

So it goes for "position of scripture:" the view that it needs little interpretation other than reading what it says in today's translated English is what will draw fire, not "any opinion." Especially if you imply that it says "right here--no women priests; right there--homosexuality is sin."

What specific views do you have on women, gays, scripture, and the sanctity of life that are wrongly described by liberal bigots as old-fashioned, anti-women, and homophobic? Surely you're a clever enough dick to come up with some. [Wink]

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KenWritez
Shipmate
# 3238

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quote:
Originally posted by logician:
And churches where any mildly conservative opinion goes over like a turd in the punchbowl.*

*Sad. We had to throw almost half the batch out.

You know I have to ask this...

Half the punch or half the turd?

[Killing me]

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"The truth is you're the weak. And I'm the tyranny of evil men. But I'm tryin', Ringo. I'm tryin' real hard to be a shepherd." --Quentin Tarantino, Pulp Fiction

My blog: http://oxygenofgrace.blogspot.com

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Garden Hermit
Shipmate
# 109

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What indeed is a Liberal/Conservative ? A political 'Liberal' in history believes in non-Government interference, and 'free-trade' with no barriers or taxes. Not what we mean by 'liberal' today eh ?

My explanation...

A Conservative Christian believes that everyone is basically bad/evil and needs saving, punishment/imprisonment being a good start..

A Liberal Christian believes that everyone is basically good but some evil influences have crept in from somewhere (probably from the Conservatives) and can be cured by Government legislation.

Pax et Bonum

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auntbeast
Shipmate
# 377

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I manage to be neither hated nor adored by either camp. It seems I just confuse them all. My politics/theology cover a wide range of positions. A while back I noticed all those fish on bumpers.... and decided I wanted to play too. I stuck a Darwin fish and a Jesus fish nose to nose on my bumper and painted a big silver heart over their noses. It's great. I can catch sh*t in almost any parking lot... the fundies hate the Darwin fish... the left of Marx contingent hate the Jesus fish... and I have ample opportunities to play with people's heads and fine tune my beliefs in the conversations that ensue.

Here's to the "passionate middle of the road". It's time we put our foot down.

All good things,
Auntbeast

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"My vices are the children of a forced solitude that I abhor; and my virtues will necessarily arise when I live in communion with an equal" - Mary Shelley (Frankenstein)

Posts: 820 | From: Vancouver, Canada | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Robert Armin

All licens'd fool
# 182

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Auntbeast - you rock! [Angel]

(And I've been wracking my barins trying to remember which L'Engle novel your name comes from. Is it A Swiftly Tilting Planet? I have no copy to hand to check.)

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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin

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Wood
The Milkman of Human Kindness
# 7

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As I've mentioned on several occasions, there was a time I got called a mad fundamentalist and a wet woolly liberal by other Christians in the space of about a week.

Actually, everyone hates me. Which proves they're all morons. [Big Grin]

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Narcissism.

Posts: 7842 | From: Wood Towers | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Robert Armin

All licens'd fool
# 182

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Milkman, I've had that experience too. Makes you feel you must be doing something right!

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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin

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Erin
Meaner than Godzilla
# 2

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<tangent>
Wanderer: A Wrinkle in Time
</tangent>

I hate everybody, liberal and conservative.

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Commandment number one: shut the hell up.

Posts: 17140 | From: 330 miles north of paradise | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged
Robert Armin

All licens'd fool
# 182

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A Wrinkle In Time???? Bugger, how could I have been so stupid. That's my favourite - and the best of all her output. Nooooooo. [Waterworks]

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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin

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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460

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quote:
Originally posted by Garden Hermit:
A Liberal Christian believes that everyone is basically good but some evil influences have crept in from somewhere (probably from the Conservatives) and can be cured by Government legislation.

Ah... no wonder your posts about "liberals" are meaningless

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Ken

L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.

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JimT

Ship'th Mythtic
# 142

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Garden Hermit, you've got an excellent start going, but you've mixed religion and politics. It is perhaps better to stick to religion only.

Conservative Christian: Man[sic]kind is basically evil and in need of salvation, which will come by the grace of God leading all of us backward in time to the Roots of the Truth.

Liberal Christian: Human[sic]kind is basically good and already on the road to salvation, which will come as the grace of God leads all of us forward in time to a New Absolutely Relative and Inclusive Truth.

Posts: 2619 | From: Now On | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460

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How about "God loves you and has a wonderful plan for your life"?

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Ken

L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.

Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
The Black Labrador
Shipmate
# 3098

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Gunner, depends in what context your question is addressed.

Within the church I'd say no, evangelicals are growing in influence largely due to the rapidly declining number of non-evangelical worshippers. And this trend will continue. I understand that c.80% of Anglican ordinands are evangelicals.

In the UK as a whole evangelicals are a tiny minority (c.2% of the poplulation). And typical evangelical views on abortion, sexuality, commitment etc are not very politically correct.

Posts: 629 | From: London | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
Firenze

Ordinary decent pagan
# 619

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....loved by the go-o-o-o-od
Robin Ho-o-od! Robin Ho-o-od!

Sorry. Don't know what came over me. As you were.

Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Merseymike
Shipmate
# 3022

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I think thats definitely an exaggeration in terms of ordinands.

This does emphasis the point that the Church may well become simply estranged from the rest of society and ignored as a result - because the effect of this direction is to alienate those who would not find it in the least appealing

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Christianity is not a problem to be solved, but a mystery to be experienced

Posts: 3360 | From: Walked the plank | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460

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Become? It is. They all left. A couple of generations ago, most of them. Are we to pretend that we don't believe what we do believe just to get them all back?

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Ken

L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.

Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
3M Matt
Shipmate
# 1675

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I am generally accused on this board of being "too conservative", however, in many other places I have been accused of being "too liberal". (Yes..really)

Having being accused by both sides, I can honestly say I find the former far more of a personal insult and more hurtful.

The reason is, in general, I think the liberals tend to imply a "moral high ground" that conservatives do not.

If you disagree with a conservative, they may well say you are mistaken in your particular belief on a particular issue, but it need not generalise to "you are therefore a bad person". A conservative can accuse you of having committed an misdemeanour rather than a felony.

For example, a conservative may criticise your view on homosexuality, because they say it is in conflict with scripture, but all they are really therefore saying is that you have made a mistake in your judgement of scripture. If they are a decent sort of person they will assume it to be an honest mistake. They may try and "correct" you and you may find that patronising, but they need not be necessarily saying you have your entire ethical gyroscope out of kilter.

However, if a liberal finds you offensive the ethical law that they are usually accusing you of having breached is always the same one, regardless of the particular issue: Intolerance, that is, the impinging of another individual's personal freedom of thought and/or action by your own belief.

This principle is so highly held by all men (conservatives and liberals alike), that if you are truly in breach, then we would surely all agree the charge is a grave one; you are committing an ethical felony of the highest order.

It is such an obvious principle in all ethics that one can hardly argue you are in ignorance of it, or do not understand it, or have trouble believing or accepting it. If you are in breach of the ethical axiom of tolerance, it can only be because you wilfully choose to be.

To be in disagreement with a liberal then, if the liberal has good cause to be in disagreement, by definition means you are an intolerant bigot.

However, what I have tended to find, is that whether you truly are in breach of the liberal dogma of hindering personal freedom usually all hangs on who's freedom it is being considered.

Very often, more than one party's freedom is in play, but the liberal will have, conciously or unconciously, made a personal judgement on which party is most important and will henceforth completely disregard any others, focusing the entire discussion around whether their chosen party's freedom is being impinged.

It would be cynical to say the particular personal freedom that most liberals usually have in mind is their own, although human nature being what it is, this is sometimes the case.

I tend to find most liberals are highly inflexible when asked to consider that other personal freedoms may come into play or afford in their thinking an equal starting point for both sides of the argument.

For example, should one take a pro-life view, a liberal will have burned you at the stake for your ethical felony of denying women their personal freedom long before even beginning to entertain or engage with the possibility that there may be other personal freedoms at stake: such as those of the fetus.

For me the abortion question is not one of "Are you liberal or conservative on this issue?" It's a question of are you a libertarian for fetuses or a libertarian for women? The question of which you should be is surely not a question conservativism /liberalism per se?

This is only one example, chosen for illustration due to it's recent debate in purgatory, but it equally applies to War/pacifism, sexual politics of all descriptions, theological issues (Which all fundamentally all boil down to what beliefs you must have to fall within the category of "True Christian")

In fact I have come to the conclusion that we are basically all liberals. I know I certainly am at heart. The question is what you choose to be liberal about and how you prioritise various groups liberties.

So what we really have is the liberty of different groups which are in competition..and those liberties sometimes become mutually exclusive.

The problem is, for those times when the liberties become mutually exclusive, we must have some kind of systemic "rules of play" to decide which trumps which.

The problem is, this is by definition a system of moral law which sits above, and in judgement over personal liberty and freedom.

Which is of course the antithesis of liberalism, yet it must exist for liberalism to exist.

Hence all liberals are really conservatives.

Confused? I am. [Help]

Matt

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3M Matt.

Posts: 1227 | From: London | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
3M Matt
Shipmate
# 1675

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quote:
I stuck a Darwin fish and a Jesus fish nose to nose on my bumper and painted a big silver heart over their noses. It's great.
Auntbeast - you are my hero! Truely that is the most fantastic thing I have ever heard. Fantastic. [Smile]

My rejection of 7 day creation has marked me out as a "rebellious liberal" in certain circles! Which I'm sure will give MerseyMike and the rest of my liberal brethren here a chuckle!

matt

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3M Matt.

Posts: 1227 | From: London | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
St. Punk the Pious

Biblical™ Punk
# 683

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Matt, some good points there.

But I'm not a liberal. [Razz]

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The Society of St. Pius *
Wannabe Anglican, Reader
My reely gud book.

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gbuchanan
Shipmate
# 415

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quote:
Originally posted by Matt the Mad Medic:
The reason is, in general, I think the liberals tend to imply a "moral high ground" that conservatives do not.

Frankly, the term is "poppycock" - but only in excruciatingly polite company. I've found one as bad as the other here...

quote:

If you disagree with a conservative, they may well say you are mistaken in your particular belief on a particular issue, but it need not generalise to "you are therefore a bad person".

I've had plenty of rubbish from those who would see themselves as conservatives which certainly goes down as the "you are a bad person" thing...

quote:

However, if a liberal finds you offensive the ethical law that they are usually accusing you of having breached is always the same one, regardless of the particular issue: Intolerance, that is, the impinging of another individual's personal freedom of thought and/or action by your own belief.

Well, I've found most vehement conservatives to be both intolerant or condescending...

Re. the rest, frankly a lot of "liberals" are not, in fact, liberals, but instead are merely touters of another conformist orthodoxy - i.e. different by label rather than nature...

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3M Matt
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# 1675

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quote:
Frankly, the term is "poppycock" - but only in excruciatingly polite company. I've found one as bad as the other here...
Sorry, I think you probably misunderstood what I was saying because I didn't say it very well.

The term Moral high ground was not the correct one.

What I meant was this:

There are different levels of morals, some more morally "high" than others.

So for example, as a general moral principle "you should tell the truth"...however this is a fairly "low" moral, there are numerous cases where it may be necessary to lie in order to obey some higher moral statement.

For example, you are in Germany in 1943 and a nazi soldier knocks on the door and says "Are you hiding any Jews here?", clearly the morally right thing to do here is to lie and say "no", because the morality of being truthful is trumped by the higher moral of protecting life.

Now, my point was, that when a liberal takes issue with something that someone has said, 99 times out of 100 it is on grounds of imposing on another individuals liberty.

Not imposing upon another individual's liberty is an extremely high moral virtue, hence if a liberal is accusing you of it, they are accusing you of a morally very serious "sin".

A conservative on the other hand may only be accusing you of being mistaken in your biblical interpretation.

Of course, an obnoxious conservative can say this in a nasty way, and a nice liberal can accuse you in a very respectful and polite way. I'm not awfully bothered by their manner. I was referring to the philosophical implications of what they are saying.

I think maybe the difference might be this:

Conservatives derive their morality on the basis of what is dictated in scripture

Liberals derive their ideas of morality based on what they feel to be self evidently true...because they don't like being dicatated to.

Now, if you have a disagreement with a conservative it can simply be a matter of interpretation of those dictated laws.

But liberal morality comes from supposedly "self evident truths", but if you don't see them. to be such....then clearly you must be blind to something which should be self evident. If you don't "see" it, then presumably you are to morality what a tone deaf person is to music, a kind of moral dunce.

Therefore a liberal's attack on your morality is highly personal attack on your own internal moral compass.

matt

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3M Matt.

Posts: 1227 | From: London | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Merseymike
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# 3022

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But the outcome is different.

The outcome of conservatism is that people's life decisions are condemned

The outcome of liberalism is merley that your opinions are condemned.

Bit of a difference there

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Christianity is not a problem to be solved, but a mystery to be experienced

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St. Punk the Pious

Biblical™ Punk
# 683

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quote:
The outcome of liberalism is merley that your opinions are condemned.
Someone needs to tell unborn children that.

(With apologies to the minority of liberals who oppose abortion on demand.)

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The Society of St. Pius *
Wannabe Anglican, Reader
My reely gud book.

Posts: 4161 | From: Choral Evensong | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Wood
The Milkman of Human Kindness
# 7

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quote:
Originally posted by gbuchanan:
Re. the rest, frankly a lot of "liberals" are not, in fact, liberals, but instead are merely touters of another conformist orthodoxy - i.e. different by label rather than nature...

Spot on. I come from a church background where anybody Catholic is routinely considered a liberal.

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Narcissism.

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Lifeman
Troll
# 579

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Just a line Gunner to offer my support for your post 'Buggered'.

I thought that you made a very valid point and it's a shame that Nightlamp went and buggered the thread.

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Robert Armin

All licens'd fool
# 182

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Just when I thought Lifeman knew nothing about comedy at all, he goes and says this! My apologies, you are a very funny man after all. [Killing me]

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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin

Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
ChastMastr
Shipmate
# 716

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Yo, dude, there's a whole whopping huge thread on it right down there in Dead Horses, which is still quite active...

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My essays on comics continuity: http://chastmastr.tumblr.com/tagged/continuity

Posts: 14068 | From: Clearwater, Florida | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Laura
General nuisance
# 10

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quote:
Originally posted by Lifeman:
Just a line Gunner to offer my support for your post 'Buggered'.

I thought that you made a very valid point and it's a shame that Nightlamp went and buggered the thread.

admin hat /ON
Guys, that issue has been kicked to death. There's nothing new here. I'll show you how that number goes:

(one, and a two, and a....)

OP: Isn't buggery physically unnatural/unintended?
Answer: Yeah, so what?
OP or supporter: So, that proves homosexuality is wrong.
Other poster: No it doesn't!
OP: Yes, it does!

Look! Back to the already well-beaten dead horse in fewer than five posts!

If you have any further complaint about this closure, please contact a local Administrator or post in the Styx; we'll be happy to pass your comments on.
admin hat /OFF

And here's the lovely Fabulous thread on Homosexuality and Christianity. Do start at the beginning, and read all the way through, to get the whole impact of this unending, irresolvable argument

[added the URL]

[ 30. January 2003, 21:26: Message edited by: Laura ]

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Love is the only sane and satisfactory answer to the problem of human existence. - Erich Fromm

Posts: 16883 | From: East Coast, USA | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Elizabeth Anne

Altar Girl
# 3555

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quote:
Originally posted by MarkthePunk:
quote:
The outcome of liberalism is merley that your opinions are condemned.
Someone needs to tell unborn children that.

Mark,

Unless you personally plan to donate money to help an impoverished single mother and her child survive (And I'm talking about a mother and her already born child), kindly [trying to think of a more polite but no less forceful way to say "shut up" but am at a loss for words]. There's plenty of other threads on this topic anyway.

Thank you.

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Born under a bad sign with a blue moon in my eyes...

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