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» Ship of Fools   » Community discussion   » Purgatory   » Get a 'flu vaccine or if you get ill, do not come to work & no sick leave (Page 1)

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Source: (consider it) Thread: Get a 'flu vaccine or if you get ill, do not come to work & no sick leave
no prophet's flag is set so...

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The title of this thread is my office policy. Having had the 'flu once, very seriously, so based both on facts and on experience, I'm telling staff they must get the vaccine: I fully support a socially-responsible vaccine policy. Vaccine is free under Medicare here for all who can receive (only certain frail health people and babies cannot have it).

The problem I have for those who refuse the vaccine is that they may infect others for 5 or more days before they have symptoms. Contact with the public means that someone could take home a virus from us and infect an infirm older adult or a child.

Staff need to provide documentation they've had the vaccine. If they have symptoms, they are put off work, covered by sick leave if they've had the vaccine, but without sick leave pay if they haven't. I expect at least 3 weeks off work for an ill person, 5 or 6 weeks is well within time frame.

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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/

Posts: 11183 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010  |  IP: Logged
Brenda Clough
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# 18061

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I have health insurance through my husband, and under his coverage it's free -- but only if you try and get the shot in October. I tried to get a shot in September and the system refused to allow it; cannily I waited to see if the system would improve and it did.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

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Rossweisse

High Church Valkyrie
# 2349

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As one with a compromised immune system, I applaud your policy, NPF. It costs you lost time and efficiency; it could kill me. (And I got my flu shot - the super-duper version - as soon as I could.)

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I'm not dead yet.

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Honest Ron Bacardi
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# 38

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Current flu vaccines are of limited effectiveness, as they have to try and guess which strains of flu may strike. 67% effectiveness is the most recent figure I can find. Far better than nothing of course.

A new generation of universal flu vaccines ought to be with us if research delivers what is promised.

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Anglo-Cthulhic

Posts: 4810 | From: the corridors of Pah! | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Bishops Finger
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# 5430

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Yes, there's no 100% guarantee, but, as someone else with a shot-away immune system, I've had my jab already!

Just a sharp little scratch..... [Two face]

IJ

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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)

Posts: 9449 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
Honest Ron Bacardi
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# 38

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Yup! I remember the flu jab of yore leaving you with a bit of an aching arm for several days, but that didn't happen last year. I've got this year's booked but haven't had it yet.

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Anglo-Cthulhic

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Ohher
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# 18607

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Ho boy.

The junior college where I teach has a nursing program, and every fall, Nursing sets up a free clinic, several days in succession, where student nurses get to jab any students who turn up to get the flu vaccine.

The student nurses do not get much practice because the students by and large ignore the clinic.

Staff and faculty are on their own for flu shots. Adjunct instructors get no insurance benefits, period; full-time faculty and staff do, but both groups are currently without contracts (dunno what that does to their health benefits). I don't know what happens to all the vaccine doses Nursing doesn't give out; I wish they'd dispense the excess to those of us with neither insurance nor much money.

I also wish I could bounce from class all those students who show up sick.

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From the Land of the Native American Brave and the Home of the Buy-One-Get-One-Free

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Ricardus
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# 8757

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I remember being told that people with a healthy immune system shouldn't get the flu vaccine because there's only a limited supply and you don't want to take it away from people who do need it, especially when it's of limited effectiveness anyway. Is that a myth?

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Then the dog ran before, and coming as if he had brought the news, shewed his joy by his fawning and wagging his tail. -- Tobit 11:9 (Douai-Rheims)

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Gee D
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# 13815

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We have ours each year. From memory, they are free to those over 70 and also those on benefits. Of course they have not been 100% effective and there's no way of know what would have happened had we not had them.

I'm surprised that labour law would permit such an employment condition.

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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican

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Crœsos
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quote:
Originally posted by Ricardus:
I remember being told that people with a healthy immune system shouldn't get the flu vaccine because there's only a limited supply and you don't want to take it away from people who do need it, especially when it's of limited effectiveness anyway. Is that a myth?

Sort of. It was definitely the case in 2004 when there was a shortage due to production problems. I remember that year both presidential candidate John Kerry and president George W. Bush ostentatiously declined getting a flu shot as an example to others. Some conservative commentators tried to shame former president Bill Clinton for getting a flu shot, but given that he was a 58 year old man (at that time) who had recently had heart surgery he fell pretty firmly into the category of "people who do need it".

To the best of my knowledge (not an expert in the field of vaccine availability) there is no similar shortage this year.

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Humani nil a me alienum puto

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Crœsos
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# 238

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According to the CDC there is no shortage of flu vaccine this year, at least in the U.S.

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Humani nil a me alienum puto

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Crœsos
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# 238

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quote:
Originally posted by Gee D:
I'm surprised that labour law would permit such an employment condition.

Depends on the employment. If you're a medical professional you can be required to get vaccinated for all kinds of things, but that's considered justified by professional standards and likely exposure through work. In other fields it's a bit dodgier.

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Humani nil a me alienum puto

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Pigwidgeon

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# 10192

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I had a co-worker who refused to get one because she couldn't stand needles. But she had several tattoos and a few piercings.
[Roll Eyes]

So of course she'd get the flu every year -- and insist on coming to work. (We did not get paid sick leave at that job.) Then, after using and contaminating every 'phone in the place, she'd go home sick. It was so generous of her to share her lovely virus with everyone.
[Mad]

I always get mine as soon as it's available. A few years ago they announced that they'd probably guessed wrong about the strain of virus, and sure enough, I came down with it (luckily it was right after I'd retired). Because of the vaccine it was probably milder than it would have been otherwise, but it was still pretty bad, and it dragged on for a couple of weeks. I stayed home and selfishly kept it to myself.

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Don't keep calm. Go change the world.

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Moo

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# 107

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quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
I have health insurance through my husband, and under his coverage it's free -- but only if you try and get the shot in October. I tried to get a shot in September and the system refused to allow it; cannily I waited to see if the system would improve and it did.

I deliberately waited until last Friday to get the shot. I had heard that the shot is effective for only a certain number of months. If you get the shot in September the protection may wear off before the flu season is over.

Moo

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See you later, alligator.

Posts: 20260 | From: Alleghany Mountains of Virginia | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
no prophet's flag is set so...

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# 15560

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quote:
Originally posted by Ricardus:
I remember being told that people with a healthy immune system shouldn't get the flu vaccine because there's only a limited supply and you don't want to take it away from people who do need it, especially when it's of limited effectiveness anyway. Is that a myth?

Yes. All of this is not correct. The Canadian goal is that everyone over 6 months old gets it. There is not a shortage of vaccine I suspect anywhere. Link.

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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/

Posts: 11183 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010  |  IP: Logged
Baptist Trainfan
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# 15128

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I never had one in England - the NHS only provides them for certain categories of people.

Here in Wales I went for a routine blood test this morning and the nurse offered me one on the spot. I took it of course, I've twice had bad flu at Christmas in recent years.

Posts: 9477 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009  |  IP: Logged
Bishops Finger
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# 5430

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I guess I'm one of the lucky ones. When I was an ambulanceperson, we had a free flu jab every year (along with various other precautionary jabs....), and this continued when I was diagnosed with asthma a few years ago.

Now, at 66, retired, and Somewhat Poorly all the time, I get free just-about-everything on the NHS, and am profoundly thankful for that post-WW2 Labour government... [Overused]

IJ

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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)

Posts: 9449 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
simontoad
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# 18096

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It is an act of bastardry for an employer to deny paid sick leave to someone who has an entitlement to it. In Australia, it is unlawful to do so.

If an employee comes to work sick, an employer can direct that person to go home and pay them sick leave to prevent infection. These hard-won conditions are rights, and an employer ought not trample on them like they are a North Korean dictator.

Why don't you arrange to purchase the vaccines yourself and have them administered by a nurse at your workplace?

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Human

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hatless

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# 3365

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I had one today, provided by the hospital where I'm a chaplain. The hospital management definitely believe this is good for the hospital - staff who get the vaccination are not just reducing their own risk of flu, but also the risk to vulnerable patients. And the cost to the institution if a chunk of staff need to take a week or two off.

I went near the end of the day, and the nurse had only given 44 jabs. I would think that 200+ people could have taken up the offer in that building.

Chaplains go everywhere and do a lot of handshaking, so we are probably prime targets for infection control.

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My crazy theology in novel form

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Jonah the Whale

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# 1244

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quote:
Originally posted by simontoad:

Why don't you arrange to purchase the vaccines yourself and have them administered by a nurse at your workplace?

That is precisely what happened where I used to work. A lot of employees didn't take up the offer though - I'd be surprised if it was as high as 50%. Rather like Ohher's students above, I guess. Mind you there was no witholding of sick-pay for not getting the jab.
Posts: 2795 | From: Nether Regions | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
simontoad
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# 18096

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Ultimately, the solution might be to require the vaccine as a condition of employment. It's better to do that by legislation per industry sector than on a workplace basis though. Employers can be very unilateral in their approach.

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Human

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no prophet's flag is set so...

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# 15560

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quote:
Originally posted by simontoad:
It is an act of bastardry for an employer to deny paid sick leave to someone who has an entitlement to it. In Australia, it is unlawful to do so.

If an employee comes to work sick, an employer can direct that person to go home and pay them sick leave to prevent infection. These hard-won conditions are rights, and an employer ought not trample on them like they are a North Korean dictator.

Why don't you arrange to purchase the vaccines yourself and have them administered by a nurse at your workplace?

You can't buy vaccine. It's free. Pharmacists will come and vaccinate everyone for no additional charge. The issue is willingness to get the vaccination.

There is no paid sick leave under labour laws here. There is sick leave but it isn't paid by employers except under a union contract if there is a union or if like us, you want to resemble a good employer and you provide it. So indeed we can do this because the pay for sick days is something we just decided to do, like paying a living wage (we pay the same as a union would or a little better), providing life insurance, providing employer contribution toward retirement etc. None of which is required, just ethical. Medical reason not to have the vaccine is fine of course.

There's something wrong if someone won't do this little bit for the benefit of others isn't there? Yes it is parental of us, and I suppose dictatorial.

Posts: 11183 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010  |  IP: Logged
mousethief

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# 953

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Entitlement? To paid sick leave? In the United States? Oh you poor bewildered soul.

ETA: This is to simontoad, which should go without saying but if I didn't it wouldn't.

[ 12. October 2017, 00:34: Message edited by: mousethief ]

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“Religion doesn't fuck up people, people fuck up religion.”—lilBuddha

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Gee D
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# 13815

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quote:
Originally posted by Crœsos:
quote:
Originally posted by Gee D:
I'm surprised that labour law would permit such an employment condition.

Depends on the employment. If you're a medical professional you can be required to get vaccinated for all kinds of things, but that's considered justified by professional standards and likely exposure through work. In other fields it's a bit dodgier.
I had forgotten the state of labour law in the US. I was thinking of the condition that you did not get paid sick leave for the flu if you had not had the jab.

Of course, some of us don't get any paid sick leave, and my insurance would not cut in for such a short period.

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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican

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Doublethink.
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# 1984

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For the record, in case it comes up for your employees, needle phobia is a medical condition, not a choice.

It is potentially treatable, but no treatment modality is successful 100% of the time.

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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell

Posts: 19194 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
chris stiles
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# 12641

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A few years ago the medical advice in the UK for adults was that unless you had a medical condition that required it, you shouldn't take the vaccine every year and should have the occasional year without being vaccinated (one in 4/5 was the figure that springs to mind).

The reasoning was that this helped the body to continue to build up its natural immunities.

I have no idea if this advice is still current.

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Huia
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# 3473

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I always have a flu jab, being in an "at risk" group and volunteering at a school where children who have the flu are still likely to be sent to school (then sent home again if caregivers or parents can be contacted).

One year an avian flu wasn't included in the vaccine, and that strain became rampant, so I took a break from volunteering for a couple of months.

Huia

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Charity gives food from the table, Justice gives a place at the table.

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la vie en rouge
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A former employer of mine offered a free flu jab to anyone who wanted one. I always got it. The building had the air conditioning system from hell and it was a highly efficient vector for pathogens of all descriptions.

Take-up was extremely low despite it being free and very convenient. A doctor or nurse from the Médecine du Travail* used to come in and give the shot in the office. It took literally ten minutes of your day. The main reason so few people got it, I think, was that they very much underestimated the potential seriousness of flu.

* a pinko-commie French governmental medical department specifically charged with looking after health in the workplace

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Rent my holiday home in the South of France

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no prophet's flag is set so...

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# 15560

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quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink.:
For the record, in case it comes up for your employees, needle phobia is a medical condition, not a choice.

It is potentially treatable, but no treatment modality is successful 100% of the time.

They may have the spray vaccine into the nose then. "Nasal mist" it is called and is ordinarily given to children. It is slightly less effective, but the option is available for these special cases. (Treatment for needle phobia is also available and is highly successful.)
Posts: 11183 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010  |  IP: Logged
no prophet's flag is set so...

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# 15560

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Sorry re available treatment re needle phobia, we would pay for it.

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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/

Posts: 11183 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010  |  IP: Logged
Sipech
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# 16870

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I choose to not get the jab. I've only had flu twice, but both times I got it from the jab.

While, on balance, it's the rational decision to get it done, it's not 100% effective and there is a risk that one can contract the disease from the vaccination. Given my track record (whenever I get the jab, I get the flu; whenever I avoid the jab, I'm fine) I'd rather take the risk of no jab than the risk of getting it from the jab.

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I try to be self-deprecating; I'm just not very good at it.
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L'organist
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# 17338

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While some 'flu vaccines are effective against some strains of the influenza virus it is very hard for the medical community to predict which strain will be most prevalent in any given period and thus which vaccine is likely to offer most protection.

In any case, none of the 'flu vaccines available currently are 100% effective even against those strains of the virus they are meant to be best at matching,

Bearing that in mind, it is not fair or sensible to say to people that they should not get sick leave if they get the 'flu.

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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet

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Baptist Trainfan
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# 15128

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My wife used to work in a special needs school (private). They used to get all their teachers vaccinated against flu even though they (the school) had to pay. They reckoned it didn't just prevent illness among staff and pupils but saved them the cost of having to source cover staff.

I presume it was "advisory" rather than "compulsory" as it was a very humane school.

Posts: 9477 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009  |  IP: Logged
cliffdweller
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# 13338

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quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
While some 'flu vaccines are effective against some strains of the influenza virus it is very hard for the medical community to predict which strain will be most prevalent in any given period and thus which vaccine is likely to offer most protection.

In any case, none of the 'flu vaccines available currently are 100% effective even against those strains of the virus they are meant to be best at matching,

Bearing that in mind, it is not fair or sensible to say to people that they should not get sick leave if they get the 'flu.

To be fair, that wasn't the policy No Prophet outlined. If they got the jab and got the flu anyway, they're covered:

quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:

Staff need to provide documentation they've had the vaccine. If they have symptoms, they are put off work, covered by sick leave if they've had the vaccine, but without sick leave pay if they haven't. I expect at least 3 weeks off work for an ill person, 5 or 6 weeks is well within time frame.



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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner

Posts: 11131 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008  |  IP: Logged
no prophet's flag is set so...

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# 15560

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quote:
Originally posted by Sipech:
I choose to not get the jab. I've only had flu twice, but both times I got it from the jab.

No you didn't because that is medically impossible. You probably had a cold or some other illness, but not the flu. Misconceptions about flu vaccine from Centre for Disease Control. Additional link: Harvard University which indicates why people might come to a wrong conclusion about flu vaccine and it causing illness.

[ 12. October 2017, 15:22: Message edited by: no prophet's flag is set so... ]

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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/

Posts: 11183 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010  |  IP: Logged
cliffdweller
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# 13338

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quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
quote:
Originally posted by Sipech:
I choose to not get the jab. I've only had flu twice, but both times I got it from the jab.

No you didn't because that is medically impossible. You probably had a cold or some other illness, but not the flu. Misconceptions about flu vaccine from Centre for Disease Control. Additional link: Harvard University which indicates why people might come to a wrong conclusion about flu vaccine and it causing illness.
Or you got some other strain of the flu. The vaccine only protects against the 3-4 strains most prevalent in any particular year (and predicting that is a bit tricky I understand). So it's most likely you got another strain. Which isn't to say that the vaccine wasn't effective-- it protected you against the other strains.

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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner

Posts: 11131 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008  |  IP: Logged
jedijudy

Organist of the Jedi Temple
# 333

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I'm one of those who have to get the flu shot every year because of a medical condition. I also get the pneumonia shot every ten years.

This year, I didn't get the shot at my doctor's office, as usual, I got it at my pharmacy which is in my local grocery store. They were giving a $10 gift card to the store to those who got the shot! Score! Plus, I figure the bribery helped increase the herd immunity!

[ETA clarity]

[ 12. October 2017, 16:21: Message edited by: jedijudy ]

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Jasmine, little cat with a big heart.

Posts: 17864 | From: 'Twixt the 'Glades and the Gulf | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430

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What no prophet said re not getting flu from the jab! A folk myth...

Re pneumonia jab, I had one last year, and they said it was for life. I'm 66. I wonder what they're actually telling me?
[Paranoid]

IJ

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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)

Posts: 9449 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
Soror Magna
Shipmate
# 9881

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Oh, look, it's flu hysteria season again. This year's edition of the vaccine is supposed to reduce the risk of infection by 50%. I'm not an anti-vaxxer, but I happen to be one of those people who doesn't get sick from the flu. (Yes, we exist.) I resent being pressured every year to get a shot that will do me absolutely no good, AND there's a 50-50 chance it won't do anybody else any good either. And even that is in question:

quote:

•We found the greatest reductions in the risk of death and of pneumonia hospitalization in the period before influenza season, when there should be no true vaccine effect.

•The reductions in risk before influenza season suggest the presence of bias due to preferential receipt of vaccine by relatively healthy seniors on the estimates of influenza vaccine effectiveness observed during influenza season.


Evidence of bias in estimates of influenza vaccine effectiveness in seniors


quote:
Researchers go on to suggest that fears health care workers are putting patients at “great peril” by not getting the flu shot are “exaggerated.”

The report cautions that the findings don’t mean that the flu shot is useless, but rather that the necessary scientific proof behind VOM policies is lacking.

“This does not refute approaches to support voluntary vaccination or more broadly protective practices, such as staying home or masking when acutely ill.”

Why vaccinating nurses might not be that effective

Seeing as the Ontario Nurses' Union defeated the vax-or-mask policy, no prophet ... should probably check with legal or HR before instituting a policy that requires employees to get the vaccine and might includes denying some employees paid sick leave.

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"You come with me to room 1013 over at the hospital, I'll show you America. Terminal, crazy and mean." -- Tony Kushner, "Angels in America"

Posts: 5397 | From: Caprica City | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
no prophet's flag is set so...

Proceed to see sea
# 15560

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This is a little bit older, but states the points: Huff post 2014 article re health care worker resistance to vaccines.

If you don't get the flu vaccine and haven't had the 'flu, you're lucky. May you continue to be lucky. I was on this refusenik page until I got it one year after more than 40 years of not getting the 'flu.

[ 12. October 2017, 17:07: Message edited by: no prophet's flag is set so... ]

Posts: 11183 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010  |  IP: Logged
Lothlorien
Ship's Grandma
# 4927

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quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
What no prophet said re not getting flu from the jab! A folk myth...

Re pneumonia jab, I had one last year, and they said it was for life. I'm 66. I wonder what they're actually telling me?
[Paranoid]

IJ

I see jedijudi says ten years, you have been told once. I was told a booster was needed after five years which will be up early next year. I wonder if we have apples and oranges here in different vaccines against pneumonia or if we have all had the same? I certainly do not know the details of mine. Shingles vaccine is now free down here for over 65. My brother paid nearly $100 a few years ago. I will ask about that one when next seeing doctor.

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Buy a bale. Help our Aussie rural communities and farmers. Another great cause needing support The High Country Patrol.

Posts: 9519 | From: girt by sea | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged
Aravis
Shipmate
# 13824

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I've been lucky so far. I'm 51, have spent all my working life in healthcare or working with small children, have never had the flu jab and never had proper flu (nothing more than a heavy cold with a bit of a temperature as far as I recall).
I was due to have the jab at work this Friday, but apparently it's moved both to a day when I don't work and to the office that it's really inconvenient for me to get to...

Posts: 657 | From: S Wales | Registered: Jun 2008  |  IP: Logged
Ian Climacus

Liturgical Slattern
# 944

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After not getting the flu or even the sniffles for many a year I was in the hopsital on a drip last month.

Not sure this will make me get a jab next year. I used my sick leave, did not turn up to work trying to get through it and so on. A previous employer used to bring a nurse in and I did not get in there; not sure why, I just tend to think its natural and my body will fight it. Once I hit 6-0 I may change my mind.

Posts: 7578 | From: Albury, Australia | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Amanda B. Reckondwythe

Dressed for Church
# 5521

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Many years ago I was sure I had gotten the flu as a result of having been jabbed, so I went several years after that without one. Finally I concluded that it was probably not wise to do so. My employer provided free flu shots to all employees, usually in early November, and so I got one every year after that.

When I turned 65 and retired, Medicare kicked in and my Medicare provider makes flu shots available free of charge. I've gotten one every year since retiring, including this year -- usually in late October or early November, but I've gotten mine already this year.

Other than as noted above, I've never had an adverse reaction, and I haven't gotten the flu either. Colds, yes, some bad, and pneumonia once (after getting a pneumonia shot, would you believe).

Also valley fever (oh, let's not call it acute coccidioidomycosis), but that's transmitted via fungal spores and is not contagious. I'm told that once you've had it, you're immune from then on.

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"Stop your noisy songs; I do not want to listen to your praise bands." -- Amos 5:23, Good News Bible (modified)

Posts: 10353 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
Rossweisse

High Church Valkyrie
# 2349

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My oncologist and internist both told me the pneumonia vaccine is good for five years. I believe them, and got another one last year. (And my internist's office just gave it to me automatically with my flu shot.)

If you don't bother to get a flu shot, and you do get the flu (even if you're not symptomatic, which happens), you are really and truly putting others at risk. Please rethink your refusal.

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I'm not dead yet.

Posts: 14757 | From: Valhalla | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
Moo

Ship's tough old bird
# 107

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The pneumonia vaccine protects only against the most common pneumonia germ. There are many other germs which can also cause pneumonia.

Two years ago I caught a germ from my four-year-old grandson. I don't know what he had, but I ended up with pneumonia and severe sepsis.

Moo

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Kerygmania host
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See you later, alligator.

Posts: 20260 | From: Alleghany Mountains of Virginia | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

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Pneumonia is, of course, not a disease but a symptom. There is probably a small handful of bugs that cause the vast majority of pneumonia cases. But still the fact remains you can't inoculate against a symptom.

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“Religion doesn't fuck up people, people fuck up religion.”—lilBuddha

Posts: 63203 | From: Ecotopia | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468

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quote:
Originally posted by Sipech:
I choose to not get the jab. I've only had flu twice, but both times I got it from the jab.

While, on balance, it's the rational decision to get it done, it's not 100% effective and there is a risk that one can contract the disease from the vaccination. Given my track record (whenever I get the jab, I get the flu; whenever I avoid the jab, I'm fine) I'd rather take the risk of no jab than the risk of getting it from the jab.

I get flu symptoms from the shot. Tried it several times, and it always happened. Timing was always very close. Frankly, was like a full-on case of flu. I know the standard opinion is that you can't get it from the shot, and I also know my repeated experience. So I make a point of saying I get the symptoms. Keeps the doctors happy. [Biased]

I've got Chronic Fatigue Immune Dysfunction Syndrome (CFIDS/ CFS/ ME), and we can have problems with vaccinations. (And no, I'm not an anti-vaxer.) So far, I've avoided the pneumonia and shingles vaccines.

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

Posts: 18177 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Rossweisse

High Church Valkyrie
# 2349

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You might want to rethink the shingles vaccine, at least, GK. From the experiences of my father and the mother of a friend, you don't want to take chances with that one.

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I'm not dead yet.

Posts: 14757 | From: Valhalla | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815

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And if you get shingles on your neck or face, there's a real risk of its spreading to an optic nerve. If you're an at risk person, it's a good idea to have it. Subject to proper medical advice in your particular case of course.

The anti-shingles injections Madame and I had a few years ago were far from cheap, but the security was worth it. I heard the other day that it's now free for over 70s.

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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican

Posts: 6774 | From: Warrawee NSW Australia | Registered: Jun 2008  |  IP: Logged



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