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Originally posted by mousethief:

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Originally posted by Eutychus:
My thought was that well-behaved men rarely made history either.

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This seems awfully close to #alllivesmatter

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I'd have hardly made my previous post if I'd meant that.

The simple fact is that most of us won't make history. History-making is not synonmyous with good behaviour, either. I'm sure if you really try hard you'll be able to think of some examples.

What's wrong with the blogpost is the implication that it's only OK for men to make history.

And in case my credentials are still in any doubt, I recently bought Mrs Eutychus a compilation of these stories which are about, hmm, women who made history.

[ 08. January 2018, 21:54: Message edited by: Eutychus ]

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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy

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In light of the seriousness of these accusations against Larry Cotton, we feel that due diligence is appropriate to ensure Larry’s qualification for his current role of leadership. In order to remove our potential bias from the situation, we have placed Larry on a leave of absence while an investigation by a third-party organization is undertaken. We will provide a full report to the church after its completion.

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Originally posted by Eutychus:
Gospel Coalition site doubles down with a new article today: Well-behaved women rarely make history.

Seems to be a thinly disguised "STFU".

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It's early morning where I am reading that link, so I didn't have any food in my system to throw up. Dry retching really hurts.

Patriarchy ensured that women rarely made history at all, having been written out regardless of their behavior. Hence the project of several of the feminist theologians to write women back in. Not that anyone would expect literalists like the author of that piece to have the nuance or humility to acknowledge that.

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So don't ever call me lucky
You don't know what I done, what it was, who I lost, or what it cost me - A B Original: I C U

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Love is as strong as death (Song of Solomon 8:6).

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Originally posted by Eutychus:
I can't manage to listen very long to what follows. Not least the abuse of the term "sorry".

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Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
A Slate article on Andy Savage and sexual abuse in churches.

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What really revolted me about Savage's statements was that he didn't realize the victim would still be very upset years later.

Moo

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Kerygmania host
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See you later, alligator.

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Originally posted by Moo:
What really revolted me about Savage's statements was that he didn't realize the victim would still be very upset years later.

Moo

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Yes it's revolting, but it doesn't surprise me in the least.

About a month after I was raped I said something to the then Bishop's wife about the rapist. She said, "So much for Christian forgiveness."

Huia - obviously a very bad Christian

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Charity gives food from the table, Justice gives a place at the table.

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Originally posted by Rossweisse:
Have you ever noticed how few women in the Hebrew Bible even have names? And if they do have names, they translate to something like "Honeybee" (Deborah), while the guys all get names like "Shield of God," "Warrior of God," "God's Cool Dude," and so on.

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Originally posted by Nick Tamen:
True, but the Honeybee did have a pretty mean sting.

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Originally posted by Rossweisse:

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Originally posted by Nick Tamen:
True, but the Honeybee did have a pretty mean sting.

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Then she should have been called "Wasp."

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Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
This is a free click but quite long. The thesis: sexual consent is not of God. This is a heavy lift and it takes him 90 pages to explain why God rather prefers you to be raped.

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Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:

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Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
This is a free click but quite long. The thesis: sexual consent is not of God. This is a heavy lift and it takes him 90 pages to explain why God rather prefers you to be raped.

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Ew. I'll pass on that one thanks.

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This is the most horrible thing I've ever read, and I've read a lot of horrible things.

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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner

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But from a Biblical perspective it is absolutely impossible for a man to rape his wife because a man can only rape a woman he is not married to.

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Originally posted by Martin60:
You gotta be some masochist or WORSE to read 1 page let alone 90 of that shit.

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Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
Yet 1000s of 'Christians' believe this shite, and give £££ and $$$ to the gobshites who promulgate it.

More fool them.

O to be a fire-resistant fly in Purgatory when these evil bigots get there....and receive a dose of their own medicine.

IJ

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Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
This is a free click but quite long. The thesis: sexual consent is not of God. This is a heavy lift and it takes him 90 pages to explain why God rather prefers you to be raped.

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Fuck.


Ok, firstly let's just set to rest the theology here in simple evangelical terms*:
Genesis 3:16
"Your desire shall be contrary to your husband, but he shall rule over you.”

Essentially that article is defending the curse of the fall. Now, these extreme literalists claim a form of marriage that predates the fall, that's how the theology works.

In Christ, we have overcome the curse of the fall; we are overcoming the curse of the fall; and we shall overcome the curse of the fall.

I apologise for the sermonising but I do think it important to demolish these things on their own terms.

However, the more important point here, is that it is in this horrific teaching that we see why sexual predatory behaviour has been tolerated (and even encouraged) in certain evangelical circles. Those that use Biblical texts to defend ownership of women by men show incredible ignorance of the very text they're quoting.

Moreover if this is what the American Evangelical church has become, then we should not be surprised to see them voting for Trump. It is the same pathology, the same evil. At the heart of Christianity is a rejection of the subjugation by the strong - in Jesus we see the greatest of power acting in self-sacrifice.

I would like to tell you that reading that article I was surprised. I wasn't, horrified but not remotely surprised.

AFZ

*I think I would still describe myself as an evangelical but more and more, I am uncomfortable with that label.

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Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.
[Sen. D.P.Moynihan]

An Alien's View of Earth - my blog (or vanity exercise...)

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Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
This is a free click but quite long. The thesis: sexual consent is not of God. This is a heavy lift and it takes him 90 pages to explain why God rather prefers you to be raped.

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The husband should give to his wife her conjugal rights, and likewise the wife to her husband. For the wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does; likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does. Do not deprive one another except perhaps by agreement for a set time, to devote yourselves to prayer, and then come together again, so that Satan may not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.

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Sexual Consent Ideology says “Both people must agree to sex — every single time — for it to be consensual.” But the Bible says both people within a covenant of marriage must agree to NOT have sex. Yes, sir and Yes mam you read that right. The only mutual agreement regarding sex the Bible speaks to is the cessation of sex for short periods of mutually agreed time and then the couple is admonished to come back together in sexual union again:

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So now you know

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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy