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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: UK Ordinariate ordination list for 2012 released
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CL
Shipmate
# 16145
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Posted
quote:
The Following are Candidates for Ordination to the Priesthood 2012
Tuesday, May 08, 2012
AISBITT Osmond John
ALLDRITT Nicholas Sebastian Fitzansculf
BENNIE Stanley James Gordon
BERRY Kenneth Percy John
BOUNDY David
CANN Christopher James
CORBYN John Robert
COPUS Brian George
GIBBONS Paul James
GILL Brian Alvan
GRIEVES Ian Leslie
GIFFIN Alan Howard Foster
GULL William John
HUNWICKE John William
MAUNDER John David
MINCHEW Donald Patrick
NARUSAWA Masaki Alec
READER-MOORE Anthony
STAFFORD David George
WATTS Franklin Charles
WESTON Ivan John
About f**king time! ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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"Even if Catholics faithful to Tradition are reduced to a handful, they are the ones who are the true Church of Jesus Christ." - Athanasius of Alexandria
Posts: 647 | From: Ireland | Registered: Jan 2011
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Honest Ron Bacardi
Shipmate
# 38
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Posted
Not sure what there is to discuss - but...
Fr. John Maunder is a TAC man, isn't he? Correct me if I'm wrong, but this presumably also heralds the first successful TAC transition into the ordinariate.
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Anglo-Cthulhic
Posts: 4857 | From: the corridors of Pah! | Registered: May 2001
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The Scrumpmeister
Ship’s Taverner
# 5638
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by CL:
About f**king time!
I agree.
I don't know what the kerfuffle was all about and perhaps we never shall know but I have respect for the man and felt that he handled it with grace and dignity.
They could do much worse than him and I'm somewhat envious of them.
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If Christ is not fully human, humankind is not fully saved. - St John of Saint-Denis
Posts: 14741 | From: Greater Manchester, UK | Registered: Mar 2004
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CL
Shipmate
# 16145
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Honest Ron Bacardi:
Not sure what there is to discuss - but...
Fr. John Maunder is a TAC man, isn't he? Correct me if I'm wrong, but this presumably also heralds the first successful TAC transition into the ordinariate.
Fr Maunder was TAC, as was Fr Gill who until recently was Vicar General of the UK constituent of TAC.
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"Even if Catholics faithful to Tradition are reduced to a handful, they are the ones who are the true Church of Jesus Christ." - Athanasius of Alexandria
Posts: 647 | From: Ireland | Registered: Jan 2011
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Honest Ron Bacardi
Shipmate
# 38
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Posted
Right - so it's going ahead then, thanks.
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Anglo-Cthulhic
Posts: 4857 | From: the corridors of Pah! | Registered: May 2001
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CL
Shipmate
# 16145
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Posted
Sorry, should have also added that the first ordination of a TAC cleric was Robert Mercer CR back in March. He is currently serving Fr Maunder's congregation at St. Agatha's in Portsmouth.
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"Even if Catholics faithful to Tradition are reduced to a handful, they are the ones who are the true Church of Jesus Christ." - Athanasius of Alexandria
Posts: 647 | From: Ireland | Registered: Jan 2011
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Barefoot Friar
Ship's Shoeless Brother
# 13100
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Posted
"TAC"? Translation?
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Do your little bit of good where you are; its those little bits of good put together that overwhelm the world. -- Desmond Tutu
Posts: 1621 | From: Warrior Mountains | Registered: Oct 2007
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Edgeman
Shipmate
# 12867
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
Glad Fr. Hunwicke is on the list.
I as well. I've always admired him and found him to be a very gracious and pliantness person from the few times I've actually met him.
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http://sacristyxrat.tumblr.com/
Posts: 1420 | From: Philadelphia Penns. | Registered: Jul 2007
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
I hope and pray that these people, and the laity who'll go with them, will find their true spiritual home. I'll be very happy for them if they do. I'm very sorry that the Church of England turned out not to be it.
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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CL
Shipmate
# 16145
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Posted
The diaconal ordinations are on Saturday 26th May at 10am in Westminster Cathedral, Bp Alan Hopes presiding.
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"Even if Catholics faithful to Tradition are reduced to a handful, they are the ones who are the true Church of Jesus Christ." - Athanasius of Alexandria
Posts: 647 | From: Ireland | Registered: Jan 2011
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Pyx_e
Quixotic Tilter
# 57
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Posted
Average Age 102.
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It is better to be Kind than right.
Posts: 9778 | From: The Dark Tower | Registered: May 2001
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Boadicea Trott
Shipmate
# 9621
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Posted
I am so glad Fr Hunwicke will finally be ordained as a RC priest. His behaviour and demeanour throughout has been utterly dignified and impeccable.
I do hope he will be able to resume blogging, as he was one of my "must-reads" until all the recent unpleasantness...
Posts: 563 | From: Roaming the World in my imagination..... | Registered: Jun 2005
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CL
Shipmate
# 16145
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Posted
Breaking news from Australia: The Personal Ordinariate of Our Lady of the Southern Cross, under the patronage of St Augustine of Canterbury will be formally established on 15 June.
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"Even if Catholics faithful to Tradition are reduced to a handful, they are the ones who are the true Church of Jesus Christ." - Athanasius of Alexandria
Posts: 647 | From: Ireland | Registered: Jan 2011
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CL
Shipmate
# 16145
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Posted
Congratulations to the Rev. Mr. Hunwicke and the other sixteen deacons ordained this morning.
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"Even if Catholics faithful to Tradition are reduced to a handful, they are the ones who are the true Church of Jesus Christ." - Athanasius of Alexandria
Posts: 647 | From: Ireland | Registered: Jan 2011
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Pyx_e
Quixotic Tilter
# 57
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Posted
Nearly there, couple more ordinations and every member of the laity can have their own Fr.
AtB, Pyx_e
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It is better to be Kind than right.
Posts: 9778 | From: The Dark Tower | Registered: May 2001
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Steve H
Shipmate
# 17102
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
I hope and pray that these people, and the laity who'll go with them, will find their true spiritual home. I'll be very happy for them if they do. I'm very sorry that the Church of England turned out not to be it.
I quite sincerely echo the first two sentences, but not the third. I, as an Anglican, am frankly glad to see the back of them, and hope the remaining members of 'Forward in Faith' and similar groups will soon get round to becoming proper Catholics instead of pretend ones. They're obviously very unhappy in the C. of E., they are thorough nuisances to the rest of us, and they're Catholics in all but official recognition, so why don't they all decamp to Rome and have done?
[ 26. May 2012, 16:49: Message edited by: Steve H ]
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Hold to Christ, and for the rest, be totally uncommitted.
Herbert Butterfield.
Posts: 439 | From: Hemel Hempstead, Herts | Registered: May 2012
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Steve H
Shipmate
# 17102
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by CL:
...Rev. Mr. Hunwicke...
Hooray! Someone who knows and uses the correct form!
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Hold to Christ, and for the rest, be totally uncommitted.
Herbert Butterfield.
Posts: 439 | From: Hemel Hempstead, Herts | Registered: May 2012
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Trisagion
Shipmate
# 5235
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Posted
At least Pyx_e's bitchiness is witty, Steve H. Yours, I'm afraid, simply sounds mean-spirited. Fortunately, most of those they leave behind have, at least in public, had the good grace to see their going as a loss. Thanks be to God that, The Tablet and it's fellow-travellers aside, they have been welcomed this side of the Tiber.
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ceterum autem censeo tabula delenda esse
Posts: 3923 | Registered: Nov 2003
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Steve H
Shipmate
# 17102
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Trisagion:
At least Pyx_e's bitchiness is witty, Steve H. Yours, I'm afraid, simply sounds mean-spirited. Fortunately, most of those they leave behind have, at least in public, had the good grace to see their going as a loss. Thanks be to God that, The Tablet and it's fellow-travellers aside, they have been welcomed this side of the Tiber.
I was making a deliberate effort not to be bitchy or sarcastic, and I think I succeeded. Why should I pretend to miss them? They've been utterly selfish pains in the arse for decades - at least, the FiF ones, who are still in communion with Canterbury, have. I admit I didn't read the previous posts carefully enough: the TAC, about whom we're primarily talking, at least had the good grace and sense to leave the Anglican communion.
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Hold to Christ, and for the rest, be totally uncommitted.
Herbert Butterfield.
Posts: 439 | From: Hemel Hempstead, Herts | Registered: May 2012
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shamwari
Shipmate
# 15556
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Posted
I was interested that Robert Mercer was the first TAC cleric.
I knew him well in what was then Rhodesia and was invited to preach at his shack in Borrowdale.
A good man IMO
Posts: 1914 | From: from the abyss of misunderstanding | Registered: Mar 2010
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Trisagion
Shipmate
# 5235
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Steve H:
They've been utterly selfish pains in the arse for decades - at least, the FiF ones, who are still in communion with Canterbury, have.
Whereas those who have sought to alter the Anglican Communion's teaching on Holy Orders have at all times behaved with selfless charity to all and have never been a pain in anyone's arse. That isn't what it looked like from here. It looked like an episode in which all sides behaved abominably, none being prepared to give the other the presumption of good faith. It wasn't exactly edifying.
I'm delighted that you are satisfied that you were successful in avoiding sounding bitchy or sarcastic. Unfortunately, the usual convention in establishing whether one has achieved what one sought to achieve in a particular communication, is by reference to the reaction of your readers or audience. So you can add "self-satisfied" to "bitchy" and "mean-spirited".
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ceterum autem censeo tabula delenda esse
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Anselmina
Ship's barmaid
# 3032
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Steve H:
quote:
Originally posted by Trisagion:
At least Pyx_e's bitchiness is witty, Steve H. Yours, I'm afraid, simply sounds mean-spirited. Fortunately, most of those they leave behind have, at least in public, had the good grace to see their going as a loss. Thanks be to God that, The Tablet and it's fellow-travellers aside, they have been welcomed this side of the Tiber.
I was making a deliberate effort not to be bitchy or sarcastic, and I think I succeeded. Why should I pretend to miss them? They've been utterly selfish pains in the arse for decades - at least, the FiF ones, who are still in communion with Canterbury, have. I admit I didn't read the previous posts carefully enough: the TAC, about whom we're primarily talking, at least had the good grace and sense to leave the Anglican communion.
I don't think that's been true, by and large, though maybe there are a couple of trouble-makers in that list - I don't know the people well enough to say either way.
I would've thought most of those who have joined the Ordinariate have been faithful and effective workers in the Anglican Church - and for which it is only right to thank God for - and who have struggled to understand their future place in ministry, with integrity.
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Irish dogs needing homes! http://www.dogactionwelfaregroup.ie/ Greyhounds and Lurchers are shipped over to England for rehoming too!
Posts: 10002 | From: Scotland the Brave | Registered: Jul 2002
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Steve H:
They've been utterly selfish pains in the arse for decades - at least, the FiF ones, who are still in communion with Canterbury, have. I admit I didn't read the previous posts carefully enough: the TAC, about whom we're primarily talking, at least had the good grace and sense to leave the Anglican communion.
What Trisagion said. You are dismissing friends of mine (with whom i don't agree but whose position i respect) who have acted with integrity, have been deeply hurt by the goings on in General Synod and its uninclusive hostility towards hard-working, loyal priests who have exercised a sacrificial ministry.
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My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com
Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
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Steve H
Shipmate
# 17102
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Posted
The rest of the Church of England has bent over backwards to make concessions to Forward in Faith, and all they've ever done is make more and more demands. You can call that integrity; I call it selfishness. The trouble is, the more concessions the church makes to them, the less equal women priests are. As I said before: they are obviously deeply unhappy in the C of E, they are a confounded nuisance to the rest of it, and they are to all intents and purposes Catholics already, so why don't they make it official? That's not a sarcastic or spiteful question, but a perfectly straightforward one.
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Hold to Christ, and for the rest, be totally uncommitted.
Herbert Butterfield.
Posts: 439 | From: Hemel Hempstead, Herts | Registered: May 2012
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Trisagion
Shipmate
# 5235
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Steve H:
The rest of the Church of England has bent over backwards to make concessions to Forward in Faith, and all they've ever done is make more and more demands. You can call that integrity; I call it selfishness. The trouble is, the more concessions the church makes to them, the less equal women priests are. As I said before: they are obviously deeply unhappy in the C of E, they are a confounded nuisance to the rest of it, and they are to all intents and purposes Catholics already, so why don't they make it official? That's not a sarcastic or spiteful question, but a perfectly straightforward one.
The Church of England wasn't making concessions to them: it was making arrangements to respect their conscientious adherence to the understanding of Holy Orders that had been the Church of England's doctrine for the four hundred and sixty years of its existence, in continuity with the doctrine held by the Catholic and Orthodox churches for two thousand. When these men were ordained the CofE didn't ordain women. It chose to abandon its former doctrine and said that in doing so it was doing so ad experimentum. The worst that can be said about these men is that they were fools in believing that their opponents actually meant what they said. Still, in coming to the realisation that they were intentionally deceived, they were well prepared for life in the Catholic Church, where our almost universal experience of ecumenical dialogue with Anglicans is that they'll tell you what they think you want to hear, whilst in no way being prepared to be held to the consequences of what they've said and, at the same time making entirely contradictory remarks to others. I think they call it Anglican fudge or Anglican comprehensiveness. Mmmm.
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ceterum autem censeo tabula delenda esse
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Pyx_e
Quixotic Tilter
# 57
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Posted
quote:
When these men were ordained the CofE didn't ordain women.
?
You may want to re-write that one.
AtB, Pyx_e
p.s. turn the witty knob up a notch or two also.
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It is better to be Kind than right.
Posts: 9778 | From: The Dark Tower | Registered: May 2001
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Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208
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Posted
quote:
...I think they call it Anglican fudge or Anglican comprehensiveness. Mmmm.
Trisagion, when a friend of yours is getting divorced, is it your usual habit to support him by calling the wife a slut to her face?
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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice
Posts: 9148 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Aug 2002
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Trisagion:
... our almost universal experience of ecumenical dialogue with Anglicans is that they'll tell you what they think you want to hear ...
Sampling error. You unconsciously select the Anglicans who are going to tell you what you want to hear. Meanwhile the Lutherans are talking to a different lot of Anglicans who like Lutherans, the Methodists to someone else who thinks that Methodism is the model for the whole Church, the Independent Charismatics to still others. Inevitable result of a denomination with no official doctrine and no means of enforcing one if it had one
![[Biased]](wink.gif)
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Anselmina
Ship's barmaid
# 3032
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Posted
Steve H and Trisagion. Trying hard to get a fag paper between the two attitudes. But. Not. quite. managing. it.
Both of your 'arguments' sound equally uncharitable, misanthropical and extreme. You may happen to be on different sides of an argument - but you seem to both be out of the same mould when it comes to make that argument
Good luck with that, gentlemen.
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Irish dogs needing homes! http://www.dogactionwelfaregroup.ie/ Greyhounds and Lurchers are shipped over to England for rehoming too!
Posts: 10002 | From: Scotland the Brave | Registered: Jul 2002
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Trisagion
Shipmate
# 5235
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
Sampling error. You unconsciously select the Anglicans who are going to tell you what you want to hear. Meanwhile the Lutherans are talking to a different lot of Anglicans who like Lutherans, the Methodists to someone else who thinks that Methodism is the model for the whole Church, the Independent Charismatics to still others. Inevitable result of a denomination with no official doctrine and no means of enforcing one if it had one
Would that we got to select our Anglican interlocutors. Sadly we have to put up with those we are given.
Pyx_e, thanks for that.
Zach82, I'm sorry if it was as graceless as all that.
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ceterum autem censeo tabula delenda esse
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Trisagion
Shipmate
# 5235
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Anselmina:
Steve H and Trisagion. Trying hard to get a fag paper between the two attitudes. But. Not. quite. managing. it.
Both of your 'arguments' sound equally uncharitable, misanthropical and extreme. You may happen to be on different sides of an argument - but you seem to both be out of the same mould when it comes to make that argument.
I don't have a dog in the fight, Anselmina. I simply find it extraordinary the nastiness with which some express their valedictions to their former co-religionists and the refusal to allow the other the presumption of good faith.
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ceterum autem censeo tabula delenda esse
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Honest Ron Bacardi
Shipmate
# 38
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Posted
quote:
Inevitable result of a denomination with no official doctrine and no means of enforcing one if it had one
Oh, we have have plenty of doctrines - it's just that we have to make them up individually.
Actually there is a serious point here. I remember being catechised as a lad, and we were told that we have no doctrines distinct from those of the church catholic. Now apparently we don't have any at all*. When did this happen?
(* to be fair it is usually stated that we don't have any beyond the historic creeds and the Chicago-Lambeth Quadrilateral. But that's still a bloody enormous change).
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Anglo-Cthulhic
Posts: 4857 | From: the corridors of Pah! | Registered: May 2001
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The Scrumpmeister
Ship’s Taverner
# 5638
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
quote:
Originally posted by Trisagion:
... our almost universal experience of ecumenical dialogue with Anglicans is that they'll tell you what they think you want to hear ...
Sampling error. You unconsciously select the Anglicans who are going to tell you what you want to hear. Meanwhile the Lutherans are talking to a different lot of Anglicans who like Lutherans, the Methodists to someone else who thinks that Methodism is the model for the whole Church, the Independent Charismatics to still others. Inevitable result of a denomination with no official doctrine and no means of enforcing one if it had one
Got it in one, ken!
This is what a former Anglican-now-Catholic friend of mine fails to understand when he tries to express solidarity with his Anglo-Catholic former co-religionists. He was outraged at something or other on one occasion, citing the relevant ARCIC document to "prove" that what his friend was saying was Anglican teaching and what those opposed were saying was not. I tried to explain what groups like ARCIC are and are not, and it only went in when I asked him, if ARCIC documents were so authoritative, what he thought about similar documents produced by the Anglican-Orthodox commission, or Porvoo, or any of the other ecumenical or inter-communion arrangements in which the Church of England is involved.
Then he felt misled as, throughout his Anglo-Catholic life, he had been led to believe that ARCIC was some sort of joint Anglican-RC authoritative doctrinal formulation committee. Today, he understands that nobody was being wilfully dishonest but that the fact of the matter is just as you describe. Those Anglicans engaged in ecumenical dialogue with any particular Christian group will tend to be enthusiasts for that group.
From the other side, I do think that there are benefits (though limited ones) to gaining mutual understanding of our various doctrines and ecclesiologies, but that those Orthodox and Catholics who think that such ecumenical dialogue means more than it is are really unfortunate fantasists who need a firmer grip on reality. Personally, I'm glad that my parish has got on board with the local churches' initiative to give practical support to the homeless, and that we've made friends with the local URC video group, so we get together and watch a film about some religious or social topic or other, and have an informal talk/social gathering afterwards. It's possible to get along with people and do what good you can with them without resorting to fantasy and ecumenical excess.
People just need to get a clear view of the line so they won't be upset to later learn that it isn't where they thought it was.
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If Christ is not fully human, humankind is not fully saved. - St John of Saint-Denis
Posts: 14741 | From: Greater Manchester, UK | Registered: Mar 2004
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Anselmina
Ship's barmaid
# 3032
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Trisagion:
Would that we got to select our Anglican interlocutors. Sadly we have to put up with those we are given.
I didn't realize we were allowed to judge the whole of a denomination - or ecclesial community - of our fellow Christians on the examples of those we 'have to put up with'.
I've always tried to form judgements on the Catholic Church based on a wider criteria than 'putting up with those we have been given'. Especially here in Ireland. Good to know I don't have to waste time doing that anymore.
Posts: 10002 | From: Scotland the Brave | Registered: Jul 2002
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Steve H
Shipmate
# 17102
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Anselmina:
Steve H and Trisagion. Trying hard to get a fag paper between the two attitudes. But. Not. quite. managing. it.
Both of your 'arguments' sound equally uncharitable, misanthropical and extreme. You may happen to be on different sides of an argument - but you seem to both be out of the same mould when it comes to make that argument
Good luck with that, gentlemen.
As a matter of fact, I rather resent this post. I have actually tried hard to be charitable: I specifically agreed with another poster who wished the new ordinands well in their new communion (and I wasn't being in the least sarcastic in doing so), and I have continually resisted the temptation to meet Trisagion's habitual sarcasm with sarcasm of my own. Should you feel inclined to offer an apology, I would of course accept it.
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Hold to Christ, and for the rest, be totally uncommitted.
Herbert Butterfield.
Posts: 439 | From: Hemel Hempstead, Herts | Registered: May 2012
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Trisagion
Shipmate
# 5235
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Anselmina:
I didn't realize we were allowed to judge the whole of a denomination - or ecclesial community - of our fellow Christians on the examples of those we 'have to put up with'.
Well presumably the Anglican Communion selects its representatives in official ecumenical dialogue on the basis that they are representative of the Anglican Communion, or have I missed something? Are they intended to be representative of something else?
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ceterum autem censeo tabula delenda esse
Posts: 3923 | Registered: Nov 2003
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Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208
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Posted
quote:
I don't have a dog in the fight, Anselmina. I simply find it extraordinary the nastiness with which some express their valedictions to their former co-religionists and the refusal to allow the other the presumption of good faith.
I don't think it overextends the divorce metaphor to say that ideally both sides should be able to go their separate ways with the simple understanding that sometimes things cannot work out, but that's not how divorces works in real life. I am not saying SteveH's attitude it good, but he is an Anglican after all, and the acrimony has been going both ways in the Anglican Communion for a long while now.
As for ecumenism, I think both sides have been misleading themselves about its possibilities from the start. I don't think either side was ever really willing to make any concessions, so it's no use pointing fingers at each other.
[ 26. May 2012, 19:19: Message edited by: Zach82 ]
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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice
Posts: 9148 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Aug 2002
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sebby
Shipmate
# 15147
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
quote:
Originally posted by Trisagion:
... our almost universal experience of ecumenical dialogue with Anglicans is that they'll tell you what they think you want to hear ...
Sampling error. You unconsciously select the Anglicans who are going to tell you what you want to hear. Meanwhile the Lutherans are talking to a different lot of Anglicans who like Lutherans, the Methodists to someone else who thinks that Methodism is the model for the whole Church, the Independent Charismatics to still others. Inevitable result of a denomination with no official doctrine and no means of enforcing one if it had one
That's probably quite an accurate assessment. I would add that I am rather glad there is no official doctrine and no means of enforcing one.
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sebhyatt
Posts: 1340 | From: yorks | Registered: Sep 2009
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Steve H:
The rest of the Church of England has bent over backwards to make concessions to Forward in Faith, and all they've ever done is make more and more demands.
No they haven't.
All they wanted was for the C of E to keep its promises rather than blatantly breaking them.
You show me (chapter and verse) how these 'demands' have been 'upped' and i will look into it.
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My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com
Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
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Sooze
Apprentice
# 16621
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Posted
I am very grateful for Steve H's posts, it's about time Anglicans stood up for the ordination of women as a positive change inspired by the Holy Spirit moving in the church. I have yet to hear a convincing account of what opponents think is happening to women who feel that they have been called by God to serve as priests. We have had our vocations tested by the church and many of us have been ministering successfully for years now. If this were not of God, how would we be doing it?
Posts: 17 | From: Kent | Registered: Aug 2011
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Trisagion:
quote:
Originally posted by Anselmina:
I didn't realize we were allowed to judge the whole of a denomination - or ecclesial community - of our fellow Christians on the examples of those we 'have to put up with'.
Well presumably the Anglican Communion selects its representatives in official ecumenical dialogue on the basis that they are representative of the Anglican Communion, or have I missed something? Are they intended to be representative of something else?
Gosh! I keep agreeing with you today.
ARCIC was our great hope and i agreed with the statements on Mary, authority, the sacraments and what i have sen about ethical decision-making but it has become increasingly obvious to me that these reps. were 'enthusiasts' - on both sides.
Neither 'side' has formally ratified anything because of this.
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Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
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Trisagion
Shipmate
# 5235
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sooze:
I am very grateful for Steve H's posts, it's about time Anglicans stood up for the ordination of women as a positive change inspired by the Holy Spirit moving in the church. I have yet to hear a convincing account of what opponents think is happening to women who feel that they have been called by God to serve as priests. We have had our vocations tested by the church and many of us have been ministering successfully for years now. If this were not of God, how would we be doing it?
Could you sketch out for me, separated from the particulars of the Ordination of Women, how this theology of the development of doctrine works, and how authentic developments can be distinguished from corruptions?
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ceterum autem censeo tabula delenda esse
Posts: 3923 | Registered: Nov 2003
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Aggie
Ship's cat
# 4385
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Posted
Going back to the opening post, there are a couple of candidates named on the list who have not been ordained, instead their ordination has been "deferred". Does this mean that it will take place at a later date, or is this "deferment" a polite way of saying "thanks but no thanks, we've changed our minds, we don't think you are suitable for the priesthood" ?
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“I see his blood upon the rose
And in the stars the glory of his eyes,
His body gleams amid eternal snows,
His tears fall from the skies.”
(Joseph Mary Plunkett 1887-1917)
Posts: 581 | From: A crazy, crazy world | Registered: Apr 2003
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Sooze
Apprentice
# 16621
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Posted
Yes I can. You cannot undertake the work of a priest without the help of God. Women have been doing this work for some time now with no sign that God does not help them. What signs can you point to to show that this is not of the Holy Spirit?
Posts: 17 | From: Kent | Registered: Aug 2011
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Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sooze:
Yes I can. You cannot undertake the work of a priest without the help of God. Women have been doing this work for some time now with no sign that God does not help them. What signs can you point to to show that this is not of the Holy Spirit?
The usual Anglican line, Sooze, is that only the Bible is infallible on matters of doctrine. The Anglican case gets terribly perilous if we stray beyond that.
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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice
Posts: 9148 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Aug 2002
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Trisagion
Shipmate
# 5235
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sooze:
Yes I can. You cannot undertake the work of a priest without the help of God. Women have been doing this work for some time now with no sign that God does not help them. What signs can you point to to show that this is not of the Holy Spirit?
Sorry, Sooze, for these purposes, I have no interest in the question of whether the CofE should ordain women or not, neither do I have a view as to whether this development within the Anglican Communion is "of the Holy Spirit" or not. What I'm interested in is the development of doctrine per se, which is why I asked you to separate the matter from the particulars of the OoW and how you would distinguish authentic and corrupt developments.
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ceterum autem censeo tabula delenda esse
Posts: 3923 | Registered: Nov 2003
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Trisagion
Shipmate
# 5235
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Zach82:
The usual Anglican line, Sooze, is that only the Bible is infallible on matters of doctrine. The Anglican case gets terribly perilous if we stray beyond that.
That'd be the Bible and it's divinely inspired and revealed table of contents, would it, Zach82?
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ceterum autem censeo tabula delenda esse
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