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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: UK Ordinariate ordination list for 2012 released
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by CL:
The Church of the Torres Strait has requested a seperate Ordinariate, though it's too soon to say at this point whether this request will be granted as there are several practical problems to be overcome.
Can we all have one? A truly personal Ordinariate.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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Aggie
Ship's cat
# 4385
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Fifi:
quote:
Originally posted by Aggie:
Going back to the opening post, there are a couple of candidates named on the list who have not been ordained, instead their ordination has been "deferred". Does this mean that it will take place at a later date, or is this "deferment" a polite way of saying "thanks but no thanks, we've changed our minds, we don't think you are suitable for the priesthood" ?
More likely because someone in an office somewhere south of a river failed to get some forms in the post to someone in an office somewhere abroad - according to the gossip, that is.
![[Biased]](wink.gif)
Nevertheless, this leaves one of the Ordinariate groups without a priest.
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“I see his blood upon the rose
And in the stars the glory of his eyes,
His body gleams amid eternal snows,
His tears fall from the skies.”
(Joseph Mary Plunkett 1887-1917)
Posts: 581 | From: A crazy, crazy world | Registered: Apr 2003
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The Man with a Stick
Shipmate
# 12664
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Aggie:
quote:
Originally posted by Fifi:
quote:
Originally posted by Aggie:
Going back to the opening post, there are a couple of candidates named on the list who have not been ordained, instead their ordination has been "deferred". Does this mean that it will take place at a later date, or is this "deferment" a polite way of saying "thanks but no thanks, we've changed our minds, we don't think you are suitable for the priesthood" ?
More likely because someone in an office somewhere south of a river failed to get some forms in the post to someone in an office somewhere abroad - according to the gossip, that is.
Nevertheless, this leaves one of the Ordinariate groups without a priest.
Assuming you mean Croydon, it will not be too much of a stretch, I would imagine, for assistance from London (South), London (Central) or Beckenham in the intervening period.
Posts: 335 | From: UK | Registered: May 2007
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Augustine the Aleut
Shipmate
# 1472
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
quote:
Originally posted by CL:
The Church of the Torres Strait has requested a seperate Ordinariate, though it's too soon to say at this point whether this request will be granted as there are several practical problems to be overcome.
Can we all have one? A truly personal Ordinariate.
I gather that there is a complicated history about this, from when the Diocese of Carpentaria was incorporated into the Diocese of Northern Queensland in 1996. The Torres Straits people (I gather half the Anglican population in Carpentaria), perhaps marginalized by the merger, objected to the nominee for the suffragan bishop for them. As I understand it, the Bishop of Northern Queensland held to his nominee, and the Straits Islanders then attached themselves to TAC. They might have the most solid claim to a separate jurisdiction of all of the Anglican groups crossing to Rome but, given their LMS origins, it would be an interesting case to make.
By their website, they have 16 parishes, but doubtless Australian shipmates will have better figures.
Posts: 6236 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: Oct 2001
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Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815
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Posted
From CL
quote:
Also it is rumoured, though I have no idea of the veracity of the rumour, that FiF Australia will be decamping en masse to the Australian Ordinariate.
What? All 10 of them!
Augustine the A is sort of right. It was the usual sad case where some people wanted A appointed and others B, and there was only 1 position. A got it, and this who wanted B moved out. What had been a dynamic diocese was split, with no sign of any healing of the rift. I suspect that behind any move for a separate ordinariate is an element of loneliness, of a lack of wider communion. It was, and remains, a real tragedy all around.
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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
Posts: 7028 | From: Warrawee NSW Australia | Registered: Jun 2008
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Augustine the Aleut
Shipmate
# 1472
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Posted
I've been trying to figure out the Oz situation and have, in the interim, done a lot of reading about the Torres Straits people, who seem to have a culture and situation well worth studying. I wonder if the root problem was not the decision to absorb Carpentaria into Northern Queensland. The quest for administrative neatness can perhaps ignore a human desire for identity and recognition. Perhaps this is what happened here.
If there is only to be a single ordinariate for Australia, perhaps its see is best erected on Thursday Island.
Posts: 6236 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: Oct 2001
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Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815
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Posted
Augustine the A , if you go to the website for the Church of Torres Strait, you will see their account of the sad affair - probably against Ship rules to set it out in full here.
The Anglican Diocese of North Queensland has an Assistant Bishop with responsibility for ministry to the peoples of the Strait. This Bishop rejoices in the surname of Mabo. I don't know if he's any relation to Eddie Mabo or his family. The people of the Strait certainly have a well developed pattern of community living, such as you refer to, quite different to that of the traditional owners on the mainland.
The Church of the Torres Strait is by far the largest component of the TAC here.
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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
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Steve H
Shipmate
# 17102
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Posted
As in England, so in Australia, apparently: it's all take and no give with these people. I remember reading what an English FiFer who was thinking of crossing over to Rome was reported as saying: something along the lines of "Well, we've got all the concessions we're likely to get out of the Anglicans; let's see what Rome can offer". Very Christian.
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Hold to Christ, and for the rest, be totally uncommitted.
Herbert Butterfield.
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Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Steve H:
As in England, so in Australia, apparently: it's all take and no give with these people. I remember reading what an English FiFer who was thinking of crossing over to Rome was reported as saying: something along the lines of "Well, we've got all the concessions we're likely to get out of the Anglicans; let's see what Rome can offer". Very Christian.
I think your first sentence is rather unfair on those involved in setting up the Church of Torres Strait. A bit of give and take on both sides; use of different language, again on both sides; some understanding by all that "the others" came from a different background; a bit of lateral thinking, and a result satisfactory all around would probably have been reached.
It's easy to be hard when you're half a world away, have not seen the beautiful islands, and most importantly not have met any of the wonderful people who now make up that Church. Most importantly, remember that Eddie Mabo, with all his drive, will and determination, was a Torres Strait Islander.
[ 29. May 2012, 09:41: Message edited by: Gee D ]
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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
Posts: 7028 | From: Warrawee NSW Australia | Registered: Jun 2008
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Pyx_e
Quixotic Tilter
# 57
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Steve H:
As in England, so in Australia, apparently: it's all take and no give with these people. I remember reading what an English FiFer who was thinking of crossing over to Rome was reported as saying: something along the lines of "Well, we've got all the concessions we're likely to get out of the Anglicans; let's see what Rome can offer". Very Christian.
Steve, while I am sympathetic to some of where you are coming from I think you need to link to that quote or retract it. It does not help when any of what we might have read/heard.
AtB, Pyx_e
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It is better to be Kind than right.
Posts: 9778 | From: The Dark Tower | Registered: May 2001
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Pyx_e
Quixotic Tilter
# 57
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Posted
is just re-hashed.
(to end the sentence, sorry)
[ 29. May 2012, 09:56: Message edited by: Pyx_e ]
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It is better to be Kind than right.
Posts: 9778 | From: The Dark Tower | Registered: May 2001
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CL
Shipmate
# 16145
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gee D:
quote:
Originally posted by Steve H:
As in England, so in Australia, apparently: it's all take and no give with these people. I remember reading what an English FiFer who was thinking of crossing over to Rome was reported as saying: something along the lines of "Well, we've got all the concessions we're likely to get out of the Anglicans; let's see what Rome can offer". Very Christian.
I think your first sentence is rather unfair on those involved in setting up the Church of Torres Strait. A bit of give and take on both sides; use of different language, again on both sides; some understanding by all that "the others" came from a different background; a bit of lateral thinking, and a result satisfactory all around would probably have been reached.
I think that is an overly optimistic view. There were deeply, deeply profound differences both theologically and liturgically between the Islanders and the diocese. I think this is emphasised by something an Australian Catholic blogger once posted elsewhere a couple of years ago:
quote:
A nice anecdote: a Catholic bishop told me, as soon as the Torres Strait Islanders broke with the Anglican establishment a little over a decade ago, what did they do? They pushed all the altars back against the wall, and got out their old English Missals!
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"Even if Catholics faithful to Tradition are reduced to a handful, they are the ones who are the true Church of Jesus Christ." - Athanasius of Alexandria
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Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815
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Posted
From CL:
quote:
[B]There were deeply, deeply profound differences both theologically and liturgically between the Islanders and the diocese. /B]
That is not how either the Anglican Church of Australia or the Church of Torres Strait sees it. Nor is the opinion of such historians as Bruce Kaye.
I don't know who your Catholic Bishop is. The quote does not represent what happened in the Torres Strait parishes.
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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
Posts: 7028 | From: Warrawee NSW Australia | Registered: Jun 2008
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Steve H
Shipmate
# 17102
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pyx_e:
quote:
Originally posted by Steve H:
As in England, so in Australia, apparently: it's all take and no give with these people. I remember reading what an English FiFer who was thinking of crossing over to Rome was reported as saying: something along the lines of "Well, we've got all the concessions we're likely to get out of the Anglicans; let's see what Rome can offer". Very Christian.
Steve, while I am sympathetic to some of where you are coming from I think you need to link to that quote or retract it. It does not help when any of what we might have read/heard.
AtB, Pyx_e
Well, I'd love to link, but it's impossible. It was something I heard on the radio a while back. I didn't name the person, but I will retract the phrase "FiFer", because I can't be sure of that, though it was certainly an ultra-high anglican who objected to women's ordination.
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Hold to Christ, and for the rest, be totally uncommitted.
Herbert Butterfield.
Posts: 439 | From: Hemel Hempstead, Herts | Registered: May 2012
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Anselmina
Ship's barmaid
# 3032
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Steve H:
quote:
Originally posted by Anselmina:
Steve H and Trisagion. Trying hard to get a fag paper between the two attitudes. But. Not. quite. managing. it.
Both of your 'arguments' sound equally uncharitable, misanthropical and extreme. You may happen to be on different sides of an argument - but you seem to both be out of the same mould when it comes to make that argument
Good luck with that, gentlemen.
As a matter of fact, I rather resent this post. I have actually tried hard to be charitable: I specifically agreed with another poster who wished the new ordinands well in their new communion (and I wasn't being in the least sarcastic in doing so), and I have continually resisted the temptation to meet Trisagion's habitual sarcasm with sarcasm of my own. Should you feel inclined to offer an apology, I would of course accept it.
Why on earth should I apologise? ![[Confused]](confused.gif) And why are you banging on about 'sarcasm'? I've given my opinion that some of your opinions have been uncharitable and extreme. You rubbished my notion that some of these people have acted with integrity of conscience and that the work they have faithfully done for the Anglican Church is something to be thankful for.
I have no doubt, as I said before, that there may have been some who were fooling themselves or being nuisances; but I don't impute bad will to everyone by any means. So again, what is there for me to apologise for? Either you meant what you posted or you didn't.
Equally uncharitable was Trisagion's view that because he has worked with unhelpful Anglicans, clearly this is what the Anglican Church is like, the ecumenical officials being 'representative' of the Church as a whole, apparently. The similarity between the two of you is therefore pretty obvious. You both hold extreme and uncharitable views about things that get up your nose.
And with regard to Trisagion's response, I think it's inconsistent at least for him to conclude that his 'universal' experience of ecumenical Anglican dialogue gives him the authority to write off the whole Church. Unless he wishes to concede that the 'representatives' of his own Church, as universally experienced by many, many people, in the form of priests, bishops, national administrations and leaders, are also completely representative of the whole Catholic Church? No. I didn't think so. Sauce for the goose, but not for the gander.
Sadly, I'm beginning to get to the point of not even caring any more, if trying to speak fairly and justly of one's opponents in a particular issue is just an invitation for deliberate misconstruction and ignorance.
Posts: 10002 | From: Scotland the Brave | Registered: Jul 2002
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Augustine the Aleut
Shipmate
# 1472
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gee D:
From CL:
quote:
[B]There were deeply, deeply profound differences both theologically and liturgically between the Islanders and the diocese. /B]
That is not how either the Anglican Church of Australia or the Church of Torres Strait sees it. Nor is the opinion of such historians as Bruce Kaye.
I don't know who your Catholic Bishop is. The quote does not represent what happened in the Torres Strait parishes.
I know that this is quite a tangent from the OP, but if you could give me a few links -- I have seen the Church of Torres Straits site -- so that I could understand more of this quite singular situation. There are few schisms in Commonwealth Anglicanism (aside from the REC on Vancouver Island and CESA in South Africa), and this seems to be the only one with a culturally-distinct majority. I would suspect that, as with most of such situations, there's a lot of blame to go around, but I would like to see the details of other perspectives on this.
But more closely to the OP, I gather that the US Ordinariate will have the largest class of ordinands of any Catholic jurisdiction in the US this year. The Archdiocese of New York only manages one. I had lunch with a retired Montréal cleric last week, who said that as we (Anglicans) had to learn from the Methodist breakaway 200 years ago, perhaps we are supposed to be learning something from this one-- he's just not sure yet what the lesson might be.
Posts: 6236 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: Oct 2001
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Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815
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Posted
Augustine the Aleut, I don’t know of any simple links. Books to look for include Bruce Kaye, A Church Without Walls and John Davis, Australian Anglicans and their Constitution.
You’re right to draw attention to the culturally distinct nature of this breakaway group. In that lies confirmation of the cause, where this group felt deeply offended by the rejection of their preferred appointee, and then what they considered an unthinkingly dismissive response to the approach they made to the Metropolitan. I’m not saying that they were right (or wrong) in this, but that it was their perception.
You may have gathered that Madame and I have great respect for the people of these Islands, and are saddened that they felt unable to remain in the Anglican Church.
I'm not so sure about your friend's comparison between this breakaway and that of the Methodists. I can't see any resemblance between those leaving now and the Wesleys; The Wesleys were major national figures and gave the impetus for a strongly based national movement.
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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
Posts: 7028 | From: Warrawee NSW Australia | Registered: Jun 2008
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Steve H
Shipmate
# 17102
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Posted
The Wesleys also lived and died Anglican clergymen. The split didn't happen until after their deaths.
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Hold to Christ, and for the rest, be totally uncommitted.
Herbert Butterfield.
Posts: 439 | From: Hemel Hempstead, Herts | Registered: May 2012
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Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208
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Posted
Steve, it's a done deal. Let it go.
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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice
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Incumbent
Apprentice
# 17127
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Posted
debating the Ordination of Women is even sillier than Canute commanding the tide, since it is a reality in much of the Anglican Communion. In Canada, women have been ordained since 1977 and we have had women bishops for a very long time. Even in England, women have been orained as priests for over twenty years. Surely God is in this. Women have led God's people and celebrated the sacraments in ways that have been edifying and Spirit led. Yes, there are some women who are a bit "off", but the same has been true of men forever. Women actually bring more catholicity and it just seems wrong to refuse Holy Orders to half the human race. There are no serious arguments against the ordination of women unless one uses "Catholic Tradition". Yet the fact that women have been considered inferior and almost sub-human for much of human history (and still are in many places) is not a tradtion to cherish. As for those being ordained in the Ordinariate, it seems to be a cynical ploy of Rome to fast-track ordinations of clergy they recently called heretics to get some more priests, especially those who will be even more loyal to the conservativism of the current regime. Ordaining men who seek refuge from women and/or want to hide in Rome's closet is something that makes me happy not to be Roman and any leanings I ever had in that direction are long gone. Their anti-women, anti-gay and anti-almost everything else attacks are making that Church ridiculous as they deal poorly with their own scandals. What do cradle RCs who must be celibate make of fast-tracking married Anglicans? I have been a priest for 37 years and was ordained before any women in Canada were. I would not want to go back to those days.
Posts: 10 | From: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada | Registered: May 2012
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Steve H
Shipmate
# 17102
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Zach82:
Steve, it's a done deal. Let it go.
I was simply pointing out an implied factual error. I'm not in the least bit bothered - I was brought up a Methodist, and have been an Anglican since the late 70s. I love both traditions, and don't care tuppence whether or not they ever formally re-unite. I'm with Colin Morris, who, in 'Include me Out', a little book which had a big influence on me 40 or more years ago, pointed out that one shilling is worth no more than two sixpences (and that tells you how old the book is - pre-decimalisation).
[ 30. May 2012, 07:14: Message edited by: Steve H ]
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Hold to Christ, and for the rest, be totally uncommitted.
Herbert Butterfield.
Posts: 439 | From: Hemel Hempstead, Herts | Registered: May 2012
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Augustine the Aleut
Shipmate
# 1472
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gee D:
Augustine the Aleut, I don’t know of any simple links. Books to look for include Bruce Kaye, A Church Without Walls and John Davis, Australian Anglicans and their Constitution.
You’re right to draw attention to the culturally distinct nature of this breakaway group. In that lies confirmation of the cause, where this group felt deeply offended by the rejection of their preferred appointee, and then what they considered an unthinkingly dismissive response to the approach they made to the Metropolitan. I’m not saying that they were right (or wrong) in this, but that it was their perception.
You may have gathered that Madame and I have great respect for the people of these Islands, and are saddened that they felt unable to remain in the Anglican Church.
I'm not so sure about your friend's comparison between this breakaway and that of the Methodists. I can't see any resemblance between those leaving now and the Wesleys; The Wesleys were major national figures and gave the impetus for a strongly based national movement.
Thanks. I'll keep my eyes open for the books-- there are some second-hand bookshops on Vancouver Island and Saltspring where such treasures might reasonably be expected to appear.
I think that my friend's comparison was to the fact of the schism and to its character as a judgement of some of the flaws of Anglicanism, rather than to the (albeit significant) numbers, leaders, and influence of the Methodist break. However, I long ago learned to avoid trying to read the minds of the clergy.
While the Canadian origins of the ACC split from the ACoC were technically based on OWP, the push from above to move from the (more protestant) BCP to the (more catholic) BAS was perhaps more the engine (and BCP-philia is the reason why about half of the ACC/TAC is not going to Rome). Recent Romeward dribbles, at least in eastern Ontario where I know some of those involved, have to do with a drift from Tradition and coherent sacramentalist theology as much-- if not more-- than the factors outlined by Incumbent. One of my interlocutors' objections to Rome were about the same as Incumbent's list, but he felt isolation as a doctrinally-sound priest and believed that it would only get greater in years to come, and that Rome's invitation was genuine. YMMV. Mind you, the Latin dioceses here have such a priest-power crisis coming that they will be glad of the recruits. My two acquaintances who poped and were re-priested as married men tell me that they were warmly received and supported in their new Latin home, but we will see how it goes for Ordinariate clergy.
Posts: 6236 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: Oct 2001
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CL
Shipmate
# 16145
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Posted
The initial US priestly ordination list has now been released:
quote:
The Episcopal Church:
June 2: Matthew Venuti (St Gregory the Great Mobile AL)
June 3: Jon Chalmers (St Anselm’s Greenville SC)
June 9: Jason Catania (Mount Calvary Baltimore MD)
June 9: Anthony Vidal (Mount Calvary Baltimore MD)
June 9: David Reamsnyder (Mount Calvary Baltimore MD)
June 23: Mark Lewis (St Luke Bladensburg MD)
June 23: Richard Kramer (St Thomas of Canterbury Washington DC)
Anglican Church in North-America:
June 30: Charles Hough III (St John Vianney Cleburne TX)
June 30: Charles Hough IV (Our Lady of Walsingham Houston TX)
June 30: Timothy Perkins (St Peter the Rock Arlington TX)
June 30: Joshua Whitfield
June 30: Mark Cannaday
June 30: Christopher Stainbrook (St Timothy Fort Worth TX)
Anglican Church in America:
July 3: Andrew Bartus (Blessed JH Newman Orange CA)
July 8: Jonathin Chori Seraiah (St Aidan Des Moines IA)
June 16: Nicholas Marziani (St James Green Cove Spring FL)
Lowell Andrews (Holy Nativity Payson AZ)
David Ousley (St Michael the Archangel Philadelphia PA)
Charismatic Episcopal Church:
June 23: Randolph Sly (St Gregory the Great Annandale VA)
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"Even if Catholics faithful to Tradition are reduced to a handful, they are the ones who are the true Church of Jesus Christ." - Athanasius of Alexandria
Posts: 647 | From: Ireland | Registered: Jan 2011
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Pyx_e
Quixotic Tilter
# 57
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Posted
CL, and you want to discuss?
AtB, Pyx_e
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It is better to be Kind than right.
Posts: 9778 | From: The Dark Tower | Registered: May 2001
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Fr Raphael
Apprentice
# 17131
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Posted
'Randolph Sly of the Charismatic Episcopal Church' would make a good character name for a novel!
On a more serious note I know several clergy returned to theAnglican fold after trying Rome out following the ordination of women priests. It will be interesting to see how well the ordinariate retains these clergy, some of whom are rather forceful characters I guess.
I often think it is a shame that the Anglican church does not give statistics of RCs - especially RC clergy - who become Anglicans.
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Honest Ron Bacardi
Shipmate
# 38
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Posted
I don't think either the Catholic church or the CofE release such figures directly - it's only partial data culled from elsewhere AFAICS. Though the ordinariate is different in that it is being newly populated, so we can all peer into it and see what happens.
I'm certainly not making any more predictions - as you say Fr. Raphael some of the clergy are "characters", though I imagine that most will stay. It seems to have been the norm for most moves in any direction in the past.
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Anglo-Cthulhic
Posts: 4857 | From: the corridors of Pah! | Registered: May 2001
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Fr Raphael
Apprentice
# 17131
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Posted
To make the move requires a lot of sacrifice for clergy, so, yes, I would imagine those who do it are highly committed and will stay.
As for the laity I feel the flow from RC to Anglican is actually greater than vica versa. But that is just a personal impression.
What does not happen in the reverse flow is RC clergy persuading laity to follow them. The Ordinariate clergy seem keen to encourage their Anglican congregants to move with them.
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Pyx_e
Quixotic Tilter
# 57
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Posted
quote:
To make the move requires a lot of sacrifice for clergy
I know a few (but not all, younger) clergy who have made terrific sacrifices to join the Ordinariate (luckily most of their wives bring in a good sum). But (and it’s a big but) most are retired, pensioned and more Roman that most Romans.
My meagre point is that your statement is one I hear a lot and is imho an unhelpful and misleading generalisation.
They are not martyrs. They are good people who in good conscience have made a decision about which church they attend and support.
Sacrifice or the pains of leaving home for a new home? They are not the same thing.
AtB, Pyx_e
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It is better to be Kind than right.
Posts: 9778 | From: The Dark Tower | Registered: May 2001
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CL
Shipmate
# 16145
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Posted
The Rev. Mr. Hunwicke will be priested on June 27th at the Oxford Oratory.
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"Even if Catholics faithful to Tradition are reduced to a handful, they are the ones who are the true Church of Jesus Christ." - Athanasius of Alexandria
Posts: 647 | From: Ireland | Registered: Jan 2011
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Steve H
Shipmate
# 17102
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by CL:
The Rev. Mr. Hunwicke will be priested on June 27th at the Oxford Oratory.
Bully for the Rev. Mr. Hunwicke, but if he's to be "priested" on the 27th, he can't already be the Rev. Mr Hunwicke, can he?
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Hold to Christ, and for the rest, be totally uncommitted.
Herbert Butterfield.
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Augustine the Aleut
Shipmate
# 1472
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Steve H:
quote:
Originally posted by CL:
The Rev. Mr. Hunwicke will be priested on June 27th at the Oxford Oratory.
Bully for the Rev. Mr. Hunwicke, but if he's to be "priested" on the 27th, he can't already be the Rev. Mr Hunwicke, can he?
In recent years, this has become the usage for deacons in the RCC, so it would be the accepted way to address an RC deacon. It was once (before mid-Victorian times) the way to address secular or diocesan priests in the English RCC, but that gave way to the now universal Revd Fr.
Posts: 6236 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: Oct 2001
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Fr Raphael
Apprentice
# 17131
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Steve H:
quote:
Originally posted by CL:
The Rev. Mr. Hunwicke will be priested on June 27th at the Oxford Oratory.
Bully for the Rev. Mr. Hunwicke, but if he's to be "priested" on the 27th, he can't already be the Rev. Mr Hunwicke, can he?
I think that is Anglican and RC use.
I wonder if Mr Hunwicke will be continuing with his rather fun and opinionated Ordo?
Maybe the Ordinariate priests and someAnglo Catholics would share it - an interesting ecumenical cooperation!
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Trisagion
Shipmate
# 5235
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Steve H:
quote:
Originally posted by CL:
The Rev. Mr. Hunwicke will be priested on June 27th at the Oxford Oratory.
Bully for the Rev. Mr. Hunwicke, but if he's to be "priested" on the 27th, he can't already be the Rev. Mr Hunwicke, can he?
Reverend refers to anyone in Holy Orders, which John Hunwicke has been since last Saturday.
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ceterum autem censeo tabula delenda esse
Posts: 3923 | Registered: Nov 2003
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Fr Raphael:
I often think it is a shame that the Anglican church does not give statistics of RCs - especially RC clergy - who become Anglicans.
How would we know? If someone turns up at church we don't demand the history of their previous religious affiliations.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Augustine the Aleut
Shipmate
# 1472
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
quote:
Originally posted by Fr Raphael:
I often think it is a shame that the Anglican church does not give statistics of RCs - especially RC clergy - who become Anglicans.
How would we know? If someone turns up at church we don't demand the history of their previous religious affiliations.
In Canada, bishops have lists of clerics from other churches who are received and licensed (and ordained de novo if need be). I suppose that the stats could be collected if somebody wanted to gather them together.
Posts: 6236 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: Oct 2001
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
Licenced clergy obviously. I was thinking or people who aren't though, presumably the vast majority.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Augustine the Aleut
Shipmate
# 1472
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Posted
Such is likely the case with drop-ins, and I'm not sure what is being done now or elsewhere, but in the days of Bishops of Ottawa Jefferson (1939-54) and Reed (1954-70), both kept registers of laity received from "apostolic churches."
Posts: 6236 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: Oct 2001
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Fr Raphael:
quote:
Originally posted by Steve H:
quote:
Originally posted by CL:
The Rev. Mr. Hunwicke will be priested on June 27th at the Oxford Oratory.
Bully for the Rev. Mr. Hunwicke, but if he's to be "priested" on the 27th, he can't already be the Rev. Mr Hunwicke, can he?
I think that is Anglican and RC use.
I wonder if Mr Hunwicke will be continuing with his rather fun and opinionated Ordo?
Maybe the Ordinariate priests and someAnglo Catholics would share it - an interesting ecumenical cooperation!
I hope he does. it is more reliable than most 'official' ones - though it won't be as much fun (I think one of the reasons why his [re]ordination was held back was some of his opinions on his blog - though I'd be delighted to be told I am wrong)
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My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com
Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
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Pyx_e
Quixotic Tilter
# 57
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Posted
Beat the funny out of them I say.
AtB, Pyx_e
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It is better to be Kind than right.
Posts: 9778 | From: The Dark Tower | Registered: May 2001
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dj_ordinaire
Host
# 4643
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Augustine the Aleut:
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
quote:
Originally posted by Fr Raphael:
I often think it is a shame that the Anglican church does not give statistics of RCs - especially RC clergy - who become Anglicans.
How would we know? If someone turns up at church we don't demand the history of their previous religious affiliations.
In Canada, bishops have lists of clerics from other churches who are received and licensed (and ordained de novo if need be). I suppose that the stats could be collected if somebody wanted to gather them together.
Received is one thing, but I imagine there is a lot of flow in and out which would never be recorded. My father would be one instance - he was never 'received' into the C of E - he just started going after I did. In official terms, he is still an RC, as that was how he was baptised and confirmed, but most people wouldn't be aware of the fact or if they were they wouldn't care!
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Flinging wide the gates...
Posts: 10335 | From: Hanging in the balance of the reality of man | Registered: Jun 2003
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Augustine the Aleut
Shipmate
# 1472
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Posted
As I noted, dj_ordinaire, there is no way to count the drop-ins or drop-outs, unless something really seismic happens. My own impression is that, in my area, there are more RCs in Anglican churches than vice-versa, but almost all of the hither-to flow is on account of partners attending church with their spouse or equivalent. Tribal identity is stronger than theological inclination in this neck of the woods. Unlike the US, very few RC clergy in Canada ended up as Anglican clerics--- once upon a time the Secret Protocol between the Anglican and RC bishops on transferring clergy was on a website (odd for a secret document, but this was in the 1990s when the web was just getting going), outlining the checks and references involved.
To further on the tangent, I now recall Alan Buchanan, Archbishop of Dublin (1969-77), receiving an Armenian Apostolic TCD student in 1976, and afterward telling me that he kept a register of transfers from the RC and eastern churches, and always asked for the day of their baptism, so that he could keep them in his prayer diary.
Posts: 6236 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: Oct 2001
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
Re cross-overs, we used to have a couple of ladies who were officially members of the RCC, but on our Electoral Roll and regular attenders at our (Anglican) Eucharist. They have now returned to the RCC, taking with them some ex-Anglicans who have joined the RCC (mainstream - not Ordinariate).
On Fridays, they all (about 6 of them all told) attend the morning Eucharist at a nearby Anglican Church, all receiving Communion AFAIK. I guess it's between them and God, but ISTM that they are all being rather disobedient of the rules of the RCC. I wonder if this confusion (if that's the right term) exists elsewhere?
Those people (clergy and lay) I know of who have joined the Ordinariate at least have the integrity not to want their cake and eat it......
Ian J.
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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+Chad
Staffordshire Lad
# 5645
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
ARCIC was our great hope.....
It was if that's where your ecumenical interest lies. I would prefer to have seen a higher profile for the Anglican-Orthodox dialogues.
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Chad (The + is silent)
Where there is tea there is hope.
Posts: 2698 | From: The Backbone of England | Registered: Mar 2004
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Augustine the Aleut
Shipmate
# 1472
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by +Chad:
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
ARCIC was our great hope.....
It was if that's where your ecumenical interest lies. I would prefer to have seen a higher profile for the Anglican-Orthodox dialogues.
The subject of my Master's thesis! o be still, my beating heart!!
Posts: 6236 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: Oct 2001
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
On Fridays, they all (about 6 of them all told) attend the morning Eucharist at a nearby Anglican Church, all receiving Communion AFAIK. I guess it's between them and God, but ISTM that they are all being rather disobedient of the rules of the RCC. I wonder if this confusion (if that's the right term) exists elsewhere?
Yes. I know someone who does that.
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My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com
Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
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Pyx_e
Quixotic Tilter
# 57
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
quote:
Originally posted by Pyx_e:
Beat the funny out of them I say.
AtB, Pyx_e
You want to be the only funny person?
I want to stay in the C of E where my rapier like wit is appreciated by my superiors.
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It is better to be Kind than right.
Posts: 9778 | From: The Dark Tower | Registered: May 2001
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Alisdair
Shipmate
# 15837
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Posted
I wonder if God knows whether to laugh or cry over our attempts to force the 'Church' into the shape that suits us. Meanwhile, according to the Word, the Spirit blows where it wills, and life goes on.
Posts: 334 | From: Washed up in England | Registered: Aug 2010
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