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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Church Crowd Control
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Badger Lady
Shipmate
# 13453
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Posted
I was a little surprised to see a stretch limo outside the church prior to the service last Sunday. Upon entry it appeared there were four baptisms and one of the young candidates had travelled to the church in it.
Positively, the church was packed. I happened to be sat near/amongst friends and family of one of the candidates. They consisted mainly of families with children aged up to about 13 and adults in their 30s and 40s. I would guess between 40 and 50 people on my side of the church.
What concerned me was the behaviour of the adults near me. To give a few examples:
1. There was audible talking (not whispered or hushed but normal level conversation). This included during the sermon, baptism and Eucharist.
2. One particular pew of men ‘took the mickey’ out of the choir singing and guffawed during the gospel reading (the word ‘flogging’ seemed to amuse them).
3. Very few people to any interest in the service and the booklets provided were unopened. This was the case during the baptism itself.
4. People got up and moved around constantly to see others/greet them/catch up.
5. People were texting and using mobile phones (although not speaking on them) which rang during the service.
6. Rearranging church furniture so children could play on it (this children were actually quite well behaved though)
7. People came into and out of the church following the baptism and during the Eucharist (I would guess about 20 people did this)
The above was, obviously, disruptive to others.
This got me thinking. I would guess that most of the people above rarely or never attend churches and it was quite an alien environment. How does that church manage that situation? Should you give thanks that they are in church at all and let it continue (it’s only one week after all)? Should those at the front attempt crowd control or is that inevitably counter productive? Should the church do baptisms in a separate service that can be made shorter and more accessible?
My own view, after some reflection, is that some of the above would not be acceptable during other social situations – such as concerts, cinema, meetings - and it is not unreasonable to expect adults to be able to listen to the person at the front. In particular, during the Baptism and Eucharist some effort should have been made to quieten those talking in a gentle way.
The quid pro quo is that more effort should have been made to make the service accessible and ‘signpost’ or explain what was going on (there was a booklet containing the liturgy given to everyone but, for example, the hymns were not announced separately).
Is that the right balance?
Posts: 340 | From: London | Registered: Feb 2008
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Merchant Trader
Shipmate
# 9007
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Posted
The Churchwardens, armed with their rods, keep the crowd quiet and in their place. (Oops sorry: wrong century.)
or one might 'turn the other cheek, be pleased they are there, offer any help required, give them refreshments afterwards and thank God.
After all you can go back to silence next week .
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... formerly of Muscovy, Lombardy & the Low Countries; travelling through diverse trading stations in the New and Olde Worlds
Posts: 1328 | Registered: Jan 2005
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
This sort of behavior happens at weddings and funerals also. It may be uncharitable and even unChristian merely to "consider the source" and shrug it off, but who knows? Maybe someone, just someone, in that crowd will take inspiration from the day's events. "One out of the ninety and nine" and all that, don't you know.
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
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Gextvedde
Shipmate
# 11084
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Posted
Follow them to the cinema next time they go and sit there texting, talking out loud and constantly get up for more refreshments ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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"We must learn to see that our temperament is a gift of God, a talent with which we must trade until he comes" Thomas Merton
Posts: 293 | From: The Twilight Zone, near the M25 | Registered: Feb 2006
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Codepoet
Best Bear On Board
# 5964
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Posted
I suspect the fact that they came in a limo would have been sufficent indication that they had got the wrong end of the stick. What is a bit sad is that perhaps another of the four families concerned considered that the baptism of their child to be a significant and solomn occasion and have gone home feeling disappointed that the atmosphere was taken over by a family that thought they were coming to a wedding instead.
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It's more important to be kind than to be right.
Posts: 1156 | From: Southampton | Registered: May 2004
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
Even if one were unfamiliar with the inside of a church, surely one would be civilized enough to know you don't continue chattering when someone is at the front of a large room talking at a podium?
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Og, King of Bashan
Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gextvedde:
Follow them to the cinema next time they go and sit there texting, talking out loud and constantly get up for more refreshments
When was the last time you went to the movies? I think you would just blend in with the rest of the rabble, at least you would have the last time I went to a blockbuster movie at the local multiplex. If they can't behave themselves in church, I don't think they would be able to at a movie either.
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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
1. Were the expectations of being in church explained to the baptism couple? I would expect that it was clear they were not used to church situations. So surely it would have been reasonable to explain what was expected to them, and possibly, to the whole church at the start, in a non-condemnatory fashion.
2. If this is the way that wanted to celebrate the arrival of a child, who are you to tell them this is "the wrong way to do it"? In less explicit situations, I am fucked off with The Church telling me "This is the way to be spiritual" and "this is the way to worship".
The truth is, The Church doesn't know what I need to worship. It might be reasonable to adopt option 1, and say "This is the way we do things, please come and join us". That is fine, if that is the message you want to give.
Personally, I think the option of "so how do you want to celebrate? Can we join in, help, give it a spiritual aspect?" is more to my liking.
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Blog
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take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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Mere Nick
Shipmate
# 11827
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Posted
Maybe more folks would want to go to church and figure out how to act if more congregations had bouncers. For some reason it seems places with bouncers have folks lined up just waiting for a chance to get in and they will try to find out beforehand how to behave so they don't get tossed out.
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"Well that's it, boys. I've been redeemed. The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions. It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward."
Delmar O'Donnell
Posts: 2797 | From: West Carolina | Registered: Sep 2006
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Anselmina
Ship's barmaid
# 3032
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Badger Lady:
This got me thinking. I would guess that most of the people above rarely or never attend churches and it was quite an alien environment. How does that church manage that situation?
In some of the churches of my acquaintance we would've done most of our baptisms in the Sunday afternoon. Otherwise, a large number of 'ordinary' Sundays would've become baptism-within-holy communion services for everyone. And as a single baptism party could generate anything from 30 to over 100 visitors, some of whom sounding very like the visitors you're talking about, this wasn't ideal or even practical. The occasional Sunday morning baptism within the service, well and good. But not frequently.
We would've restricted the baptisms to either just two or three depending on estimated guest numbers. In the afternoon, it would've been more relaxed, focussed on the baptism, time to explain the liturgy, engage the youngsters, and generally attend to the baptism visitors as a single congregation in their own right; rather than as an imported and often incompatible sub-set within a completely different congregation. The personal attention made all the difference.
The baptism family would then be expected to come back to a welcome ceremony within a main Sunday morning service to receive their certificate and be introduced to the congregation. This normally did happen.
Of course, this was in churches where there was a large-ish number of baptisms and a fairly open baptism policy. So it was not only common-sense to have a praxis that worked with large numbers of largely un-churchy people, it was desirable for everybody, churchgoers and non-churchgoers alike.
If it's a very occasional one-off I'm afraid you probably just have to put up with it. There would've been announcements about flash photography and such like, but if you're in the middle of trying to steer the whole congregation through a baptism/communion combo, and a substantial part of the people haven't a clue and aren't being directly engaged in the worship, there's little you can do.
Posts: 10002 | From: Scotland the Brave | Registered: Jul 2002
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Gextvedde
Shipmate
# 11084
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
quote:
Originally posted by Gextvedde:
Follow them to the cinema next time they go and sit there texting, talking out loud and constantly get up for more refreshments
When was the last time you went to the movies? I think you would just blend in with the rest of the rabble, at least you would have the last time I went to a blockbuster movie at the local multiplex. If they can't behave themselves in church, I don't think they would be able to at a movie either.
Touche
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"We must learn to see that our temperament is a gift of God, a talent with which we must trade until he comes" Thomas Merton
Posts: 293 | From: The Twilight Zone, near the M25 | Registered: Feb 2006
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rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840
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Posted
Remembering of course that piece from 1 Corinthians we read out every Maundy Thursday, taken from a passage where Paul was trying to instill correct and seemly behaviour at the early Eucharists .
So nothing new . I agree it is embarrassing , and so often a small minority can spoil things for everyone else.
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Change is the only certainty of existence
Posts: 3206 | From: U.K. | Registered: Dec 2011
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
I find it quite understandable that non-churched families think a baptism is like a wedding. And if the trend with wedding celebrations (in church and also in other venues) is towards informality, then they will come with the same approach to a baptism. Perhaps it is preferable to the sort of church weddings when most of the guests, not to mention the 'happy' couple, look frightened to death.
However, I also question the wisdom of doing mass baptisms - some churches will only 'do' one baby at a time, or one family at a time if there are also siblings being baptised. That way, if a loud family happens along, at least they don't disturb and upset the quiet families who also have a child being christened.
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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Spiffy
Ship's WonderSheep
# 5267
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
Maybe more folks would want to go to church and figure out how to act if more congregations had bouncers. For some reason it seems places with bouncers have folks lined up just waiting for a chance to get in and they will try to find out beforehand how to behave so they don't get tossed out.
Clearly you haven't hung out in many places with bouncers lately. The security staff at several of my favorite drinkeries aren't just wall ornaments, they are almost constantly at chucking people out and ducking tossed punches and having drunks yell, 'DON'T YOU KNOW WHO I AM?!'
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Looking for a simple solution to all life's problems? We are proud to present obstinate denial. Accept no substitute. Accept nothing.
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Posts: 10281 | From: Beervana | Registered: Dec 2003
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
Cui bono?
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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Zacchaeus
Shipmate
# 14454
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Posted
quote:
However, I also question the wisdom of doing mass baptisms - some churches will only 'do' one baby at a time, or one family at a time if there are also siblings being baptised. That way, if a loud family happens along, at least they don't disturb and upset the quiet families who also have a child being christened. [/QB]
It's fine if you don't have many baptisms. However the last three churches I have been a member of have done several baptims every month.
To do seperate services for 40 baptisms a year (as my current church has) is downright impossible. It also makes it impossible to put them all during main morning service as there would be no room left for the church congregation. And that is just one of the churches in our group, other churches have big numbbers of baptisms too, making a lot of baptims for the clergy to fit in. Mass baptisms are a must to get through them all.
Posts: 1905 | From: the back of beyond | Registered: Jan 2009
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Codepoet:
I suspect the fact that they came in a limo would have been sufficent indication that they had got the wrong end of the stick. What is a bit sad is that perhaps another of the four families concerned considered that the baptism of their child to be a significant and solomn occasion and have gone home feeling disappointed that the atmosphere was taken over by a family that thought they were coming to a wedding instead.
I don't get that last bit. It's not appropriate to gossip through a wedding service either.
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
I don't get that last bit. It's not appropriate to gossip through a wedding service either.
To elaborate, let's compare a (church) wedding and a baptism:
- Joyful occasion to be celebrated? Check.
- Solemn promises made before God? Check.
- Family affair with lots of dressed-up relatives? Check.
- Lots of the family don't understand what happens in church? Check.
- Some kind of knees-up afterwards? Check.
What are the differences? The unchurched who marry in church (so as not to disappoint Aunt Hilda) don't usually have communion. True, but I don't think this is very relevant.
The real issue is that it's very rare to hold a wedding in conjunction with the normal Sunday Eucharist, so if one particular wedding party are ill-mannered, they can only spoil things for their own friends or family.
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
Sorry. Thick question. What do you mean by 'Check' in this context?
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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Codepoet
Best Bear On Board
# 5964
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
quote:
Originally posted by Codepoet:
I suspect the fact that they came in a limo would have been sufficent indication that they had got the wrong end of the stick. What is a bit sad is that perhaps another of the four families concerned considered that the baptism of their child to be a significant and solomn occasion and have gone home feeling disappointed that the atmosphere was taken over by a family that thought they were coming to a wedding instead.
I don't get that last bit. It's not appropriate to gossip through a wedding service either.
Fair question. I suppose the difference in my mind is that a wedding is essentially all about the couple. They make commitments to one another, their extended families become some how united. If everyone wants it all to become a bit self indulgent, well that is up to them. However baptism is different because baptism is not just about the person being baptised, it is about the Church - the community that they are joining.
It is because of this distinction that in the church where I work, wedding couples get the freedom to choose the hymns, reading, prayers etc and add embelishments (within limits) to personalise the service. However when people are baptised we do not afford them such freedom - it is not all about them, it is about the Church.
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It's more important to be kind than to be right.
Posts: 1156 | From: Southampton | Registered: May 2004
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PaulBC
Shipmate
# 13712
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
quote:
Originally posted by Gextvedde:
Follow them to the cinema next time they go and sit there texting, talking out loud and constantly get up for more refreshments
When was the last time you went to the movies? I think you would just blend in with the rest of the rabble, at least you would have the last time I went to a blockbuster movie at the local multiplex. If they can't behave themselves in church, I don't think they would be able to at a movie either.
One would think wouldn't one ? ![[Smile]](smile.gif) ![[Angel]](graemlins/angel.gif) ![[Votive]](graemlins/votive.gif)
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"He has told you O mortal,what is good;and what does the Lord require of youbut to do justice and to love kindness ,and to walk humbly with your God."Micah 6:8
Posts: 873 | From: Victoria B.C. Canada | Registered: May 2008
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Mere Nick
Shipmate
# 11827
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Spiffy:
quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
Maybe more folks would want to go to church and figure out how to act if more congregations had bouncers. For some reason it seems places with bouncers have folks lined up just waiting for a chance to get in and they will try to find out beforehand how to behave so they don't get tossed out.
Clearly you haven't hung out in many places with bouncers lately. The security staff at several of my favorite drinkeries aren't just wall ornaments, they are almost constantly at chucking people out and ducking tossed punches and having drunks yell, 'DON'T YOU KNOW WHO I AM?!'
Ha!
Maybe they'd figure working a church service might be a sweet gig, then.
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"Well that's it, boys. I've been redeemed. The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions. It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward."
Delmar O'Donnell
Posts: 2797 | From: West Carolina | Registered: Sep 2006
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
Sorry. Thick question. What do you mean by 'Check' in this context?
A check mark: Americanism for a tick. I seem to be accreting more mannerisms from my left-pondian hosts as time goes on.
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Spiffy:
quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
Maybe more folks would want to go to church and figure out how to act if more congregations had bouncers. For some reason it seems places with bouncers have folks lined up just waiting for a chance to get in and they will try to find out beforehand how to behave so they don't get tossed out.
Clearly you haven't hung out in many places with bouncers lately. The security staff at several of my favorite drinkeries aren't just wall ornaments, they are almost constantly at chucking people out and ducking tossed punches and having drunks yell, 'DON'T YOU KNOW WHO I AM?!'
Bloody hell - where do you drink? My favourite pubs don't even have bouncers.
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
Bloody hell - where do you drink? My favourite pubs don't even have bouncers.
Perhaps our favourite pubs have incredibly intimidating regulars.
Only this week, I was enjoying a quiet pint and a sword dance broke out...
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Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
It's when folk start throwing sharp pointy things at circles on the wall that you have to worry ...
I find two things interesting in this post.
One is whether there is a real shift in behaviour at public events, whether church, concert or cinema. My gut feeling is that there is (and, being nearly 60, I don't like it; you can only glare meaningfully so many times at the chattering person in the next row).
The other is whether the distinctions between "appropriate behaviour" at different kinds of events is diminishing and, if so, whether the Church embraces this or decides that it is unacceptable. Somehow there has to be a middle way which recognises the alien nature of the church environment to many visitors, yet also tactfully lays down strictures - for instance, although some churches may tolerate chattering visits they may be less willing to accept bottles being passed around or cigarettes being lit!
By the way, as a Baptist with all the theological and ecclesiological baggage which that brings, I still find it strange that so many parents who never otherwise darken the door of a church bring their children for baptism; and, even more, that these families are understood to be "members of the Church" in any meaningful way. But that is definitely a Dead Horse! ![[Devil]](graemlins/devil.gif)
[ 16. May 2013, 10:01: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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The Rogue
Shipmate
# 2275
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Posted
To pick up on a point made earlier, our (Church of England) vicar is brilliant at conducting all liturgy in such a way that those not familiar with it (and everyone else) can understand and follow it. He is very enthusiastic and clearly means every word and I have thanked him for this. In the context of this thread I reckon this does lead to more attention being paid generally.
One of our churchwardens has abandoned her pointy stick in favour of bags of toys when there are bored children and I think the family are assured beforehand that we are fairly informal so an element of infant lawlessness does not interfere. The parents do seem more bothered than the regular congregation when tears erupt.
At my previous church I once saw the family leave before the end of the service but we don't get that although they don't often stay for coffee. But if there is a party on the cards I can't really blame them. I suppose the fact that we place them as far from the door as possible helps!
We don't have a baptism every month and very rarely is there more than one family which probably makes this crowd management easier. They are always held during the morning service but I guess all these circumstances help make it work. I had thought that not having a baptism in a normal service was not a good thing but this thread has made me think again. Thanks.
I remember a long time ago that my brother once did a bible reading and was wearing jeans and t-shirt. One of the men in the baptism family complained very loudly to his wife that perhaps he needn't have worn a suit and tie after all.
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If everyone starts thinking outside the box does outside the box come back inside?
Posts: 2507 | From: Toton | Registered: Feb 2002
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
Only if there's an Orange march passing outside ...
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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SusanDoris
Incurable Optimist
# 12618
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Posted
OP. What an extraordinary situation! I do not know what would have been best, but clear leadership and instructions at each point in the service on what to do by the Vicar would have set the tone.
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I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
Posts: 3083 | From: UK | Registered: May 2007
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by SusanDoris:
OP. What an extraordinary situation! I do not know what would have been best, but clear leadership and instructions at each point in the service on what to do by the Vicar would have set the tone.
One shouldn't expect non-churchgoers to be familiar with what goes on in a church, so one should expect to have to tell people where to go and so on, but I share Badger Lady's opinion that the behaviour she describes would not be acceptable during other social situations – at the theatre, during a school assembly etc. This isn't a question of people being unfamiliar with church - this is a question of people not caring about basic politeness.
I confess that I don't understand how atheists are able to have their children baptized in good conscience, in order to please a religious grandparent or whatever. Weddings I understand - the wedding vows themselves are promises that the couple make to each other, and you can more or less ignore the "Goddy bit". Anyone - of whatever faith or none - can promise to love and be faithful to their spouse.
At a Baptism, however, the parents and Godparents are making explicit promises about their own personal faith and about the faith in which they will raise their child, and I don't understand how atheists feel able to make those promises.
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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Og, King of Bashan
Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
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Posted
Would a rehearsal have made a difference? My church does a rehearsal the weekend before a baptism, and that is probably a good time for the rector to set the tone. You can't always anticipate boorish behavior, but maybe you can at least ask about the number of anticipated guests, their relative familiarity with your form of worship, and deliver some advice based on what you hear.
(When my nephew was baptized, they waived the rehearsal, because it was going to be hard to get everyone there at the same time, and because my brother knew that I, as the godfather, already knew all of my lines and was drilling my wife, the godmother, on them as well. Big mistake. The priest wasn't aware that we had been practicing, so he still ended up spoon feeding us the lines, and they had to send someone running to the back to get a candle. That was a particularly disorganized church, but based on that, I would require a rehearsal for any baptism.)
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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005
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Zacchaeus
Shipmate
# 14454
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by SusanDoris:
OP. What an extraordinary situation! I do not know what would have been best, but clear leadership and instructions at each point in the service on what to do by the Vicar would have set the tone.
Sadly it is not unusual and is one reason why many church congregations dislike having baptisms in their main services.
I have seen most of the situations described in the OP at baptisms. Even where careful preparation by the clergy has taken place -
Sadly some families guests are just sitting thorugh the service to get to the main event of the party.
Posts: 1905 | From: the back of beyond | Registered: Jan 2009
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Zacchaeus:
Sadly it is not unusual and is one reason why many church congregations dislike having baptisms in their main services.
I like baptisms in the main service - it's where they belong. In principle, we baptize once a month in the main Sunday service, and get 2 or 3 babies. For regular church families, the priest is a bit more flexible in terms of scheduling.
Probably the majority of our baptisms are grandchildren of current parishioners, with roughly equal numbers of children of current members and complete strangers, and the occasional adult.
I've never experienced baptism guests being disruptive in the service, although some are obviously not taking part, but are being spectators. There's usually some in-and-out, but not more than you get with other parents of infants.
The only baptism I've been to that didn't "feel like church" was the baptism of a friend's child at the local RC place. There were four babies being baptized in a special afternoon baptism service. It felt more like a visit to a city bureaucrat than a gathering of people in the Lord's name, and the joy of welcoming new members into the Body of Christ was, well, not exactly on display.
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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Zacchaeus
Shipmate
# 14454
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
quote:
Originally posted by Zacchaeus:
Sadly it is not unusual and is one reason why many church congregations dislike having baptisms in their main services.
I like baptisms in the main service - it's where they belong. In principle, we baptize once a month in the main Sunday service, and get 2 or 3 babies. For regular church families, the priest is a bit more flexible in terms of scheduling.
Probably the majority of our baptisms are grandchildren of current parishioners, with roughly equal numbers of children of current members and complete strangers, and the occasional adult.
I've never experienced baptism guests being disruptive in the service, although some are obviously not taking part, but are being spectators. There's usually some in-and-out, but not more than you get with other parents of infants.
The only baptism I've been to that didn't "feel like church" was the baptism of a friend's child at the local RC place. There were four babies being baptized in a special afternoon baptism service. It felt more like a visit to a city bureaucrat than a gathering of people in the Lord's name, and the joy of welcoming new members into the Body of Christ was, well, not exactly on display.
Yes there is not much that is as divisive in a congregation as where to put the baptisms. Theologically they belong in the service and some congregation members, like you, love them. Others moan in a big way, and if they get a warning of an in the service baptism, stay away. Numbers of main congregation attendees always drop for an in the main service baptism.
We have had the wandering, the loud talking, the mobiles. The refusing to look at a service book – or even take one, mocking of what the vicar says…
Posts: 1905 | From: the back of beyond | Registered: Jan 2009
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Mere Nick
Shipmate
# 11827
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Posted
Doesn't some of the UK congregations still have beadles. It appears one their jobs is to keep order. Of course, we don't seem to have them here. It must be because we're just better Christians, or something.
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"Well that's it, boys. I've been redeemed. The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions. It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward."
Delmar O'Donnell
Posts: 2797 | From: West Carolina | Registered: Sep 2006
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Liturgylover
Shipmate
# 15711
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
Doesn't some of the UK congregations still have beadles. It appears one their jobs is to keep order. Of course, we don't seem to have them here. It must be because we're just better Christians, or something.
Or something, definately.
I have only ever seen a Beadle once at St. Michael Cornhil, but crowd control was the last thing on his mind. He looked very quaint. I know no other.
The behaviour described in the OP was shocking, selfish and vile and something I have never seen. I suspect after the service these people jumped into their limo and behaved just as rudely at the baptismal lunch. Lots of money and no taste is a terrible combination.
Posts: 452 | From: North London | Registered: Jun 2010
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North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
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Posted
We have a beadle - I think most churches in the Church of Scotland do.
I don't know what our beadle would do in such a situation. We did have one instance in which someone ignored the rule about no photographs, was asked not to take any more, but did, and the minister stopped and said that the baptism would not proceed if another photograph was taken. I assume the parents were less than happy with their guest for causing the interruption.
Apart from that we only have low level chat etc during the sermon.
Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007
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