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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Pig Gate
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
Contemplates circus poll.
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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lowlands_boy
Shipmate
# 12497
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Posted
Question 6
Are you male or female ?
Choose 1
Yes
No
Too drunk to know
Interesting question....
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I thought I should update my signature line....
Posts: 836 | From: North West UK | Registered: Apr 2007
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Mere Nick
Shipmate
# 11827
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lowlands_boy:
quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
[qb] quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
Not heard the horse story, Mere Nick.
Really? The candidate who accused the other was Ali something or other. A shocking accusation, to say the least. I remember him as a rather disgusting fellow, though, and trust his political debating style is not typical of that heard in Parliament.
<snip>
For goodness sake man, that was from the film "Ali-G in Da House"
I was wondering how long it would take for someone to say something.
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"Well that's it, boys. I've been redeemed. The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions. It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward."
Delmar O'Donnell
Posts: 2797 | From: West Carolina | Registered: Sep 2006
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lowlands_boy
Shipmate
# 12497
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
quote:
Originally posted by lowlands_boy:
quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
[qb] quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
Not heard the horse story, Mere Nick.
Really? The candidate who accused the other was Ali something or other. A shocking accusation, to say the least. I remember him as a rather disgusting fellow, though, and trust his political debating style is not typical of that heard in Parliament.
<snip>
For goodness sake man, that was from the film "Ali-G in Da House"
I was wondering how long it would take for someone to say something.
I do apologise, I was out being churchy last night, so wasn't available to help out...
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I thought I should update my signature line....
Posts: 836 | From: North West UK | Registered: Apr 2007
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Mere Nick
Shipmate
# 11827
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
Although I'm now having palpitations at the thought of US audiences thinking he's for real ...
Nah, but it was one of the first things I thought about when I first heard about this pig thing.
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"Well that's it, boys. I've been redeemed. The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions. It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward."
Delmar O'Donnell
Posts: 2797 | From: West Carolina | Registered: Sep 2006
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
posted by Doublethink. quote:
That said, one of our more prolific serial killers - Fred West - was taught to bugger sheep by his father as a boy. (Apparently there's a knack to it and you have to put their back legs down your wellington boots.)
FRONT legs - I've an in-law who grew up in the Forest of Dean (Fred West country) and that's the low-down from them...
Well, some people use the sheep's front legs in the wellies, when they want to kiss.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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Robert Armin
All licens'd fool
# 182
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Posted
A friend on Facebook commented, it almost doesn't matter if the story is true or not. What matters is that the entire nation has looked at their PM and thought, "Yes, he could have done it".
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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin
Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
What boggles me is that pigs have quite sharp teeth. Even dead, this would have been ... dodgy.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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Honest Ron Bacardi
Shipmate
# 38
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Posted
"Lord Ashcroft's Revenge" would make a good name for a pub.
"I'll meet you at the sign of the pig's head".
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Anglo-Cthulhic
Posts: 4857 | From: the corridors of Pah! | Registered: May 2001
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
What I'm wondering: putting your member into a dead pig is obviously yucky. But is it immoral?
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
![[Confused]](confused.gif)
Well, on what grounds could it be considered moral?
At best, it's a puerile drunken prank. At worst ...
But even as a prank it's in pretty poor taste - simulating oral sex with a pig is pretty gross but anyone's standards, surely?
Would it be any more 'moral' or 'immoral' if it were a simulated sex act involving a human being or a representation of a human being?
It's pretty shady however we cut it.
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
Depends on what moral standards you claim to uphold. Hypocrisy is the usual charge levelled at politicians on the grounds of their habit of publically spouting off about how others should live their lives.
The claims about Cameron's drug use would have less traction if he supported decriminalisation, for example.
In this case it highlights conspicuous consumption and waste from a man who is cutting aid to the poor.
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
Well, on what grounds could it be considered moral?
At best, it's a puerile drunken prank. At worst ...
But even as a prank it's in pretty poor taste - simulating oral sex with a pig is pretty gross but anyone's standards, surely?
Would it be any more 'moral' or 'immoral' if it were a simulated sex act involving a human being or a representation of a human being?
It's pretty shady however we cut it.
Worse than arse crack advocaat ?
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
Mind you, I seem to remember a photo of Tony Blair from his student days where he was with some of his rowdy toff friends and he was making simulated masturbatory hand-actions for the camera.
I don't remember much of a fuss about that at the time.
It did, however, arguably define much of his political career ...
![[Ultra confused]](graemlins/confused2.gif)
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
Advocaat is unacceptable at any time other than Christmas, whether arse-crack or otherwise.
Honestly, there must be some standards of common decency ...
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink.:
The claims about Cameron's drug use would have less traction if he supported decriminalisation, for example.
Let's suppose, for the sake of argument, that the Prime Minister's "normal student experience" that he doesn't want to get explicit about includes casual smoking of cannabis. What does that mean?
(For the avoidance of doubt, I make no claims about anything he may have done in his youth, but merely wish to explore the consequences if some of the allegations were to be true.)
So - a politician does drugs in his youth, and is opposed to people being able to take drugs. Does that make him a hypocrite? No, not at all.
If, on the other hand, that politician was of the opinion that anyone who took drugs in his youth should be permanently banned from holding any kind of responsible job, then he would be a hypocrite.
Or if a politician was currently taking recreational drugs whilst supporting them being illegal, he would be a hypocrite.
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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Grokesx
Shipmate
# 17221
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Posted
@NE Quine
quote:
Tangent - Aberdeen Football fans are known as the sheepshaggers (NSFW). The Aberdeen FC mascot is a sheep.
Also the fans of my home team, the Rams - Derby County, happily refer to themselves as the Sheep Shag Army.
@Doublethink
quote:
In this case it highlights conspicuous consumption and waste from a man who is cutting aid to the poor.
A case of screwing the pork highlighting screwing the poor?
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For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. H. L. Mencken
Posts: 373 | From: Derby, UK | Registered: Jul 2012
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
Gamaliel: Well, on what grounds could it be considered moral?
In my view that's not how it works. Things are moral until you can give me a reason why they are immoral, not the other way around.
quote:
Gamaliel: But even as a prank it's in pretty poor taste - simulating oral sex with a pig is pretty gross but anyone's standards, surely?
Yes of course, it grosses me out. But gross is not the same as immoral. For example, I think one of the arguments of the LBGT movement is "Just because you think it's gross, doesn't make it immoral." And I agree with that.
quote:
Gamaliel: Would it be any more 'moral' or 'immoral' if it were a simulated sex act involving a human being
Now we get into the area of consent. If this human being hasn't consented (or isn't able to give consent), then it's rape and that is obviously immoral. But that is not the case here.
quote:
Gamaliel: or a representation of a human being?
A representation of a specific human being you mean? Yes, if I made a doll that looked exactly like a specific person and I would have (simulated) sex with that, I can imagine that this person would object to that. And yes, I would find this immoral. But that is not the case here either.
I wouldn't have an objection against having (simulated) sex with a generic representation of a human being. I mean, that's what sex dolls are.
quote:
Doublethink.: Hypocrisy is the usual charge levelled at politicians on the grounds of their habit of publically spouting off about how others should live their lives.
Yes, I can see that. If the piggate story is true and Cameron as a politician would be ostracising people for their sexual behaviour, then this would be hypocritical. And hypocrisy is immoral. I'm in the UK at the moment, but I don't follow its politics well enough to know whether this has happened.
This is a PR disaster for sure, whether the story is true or not, but immoral? I'm not convinced.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink.:
The claims about Cameron's drug use would have less traction if he supported decriminalisation, for example.
Let's suppose, for the sake of argument, that the Prime Minister's "normal student experience" that he doesn't want to get explicit about includes casual smoking of cannabis. What does that mean?
(For the avoidance of doubt, I make no claims about anything he may have done in his youth, but merely wish to explore the consequences if some of the allegations were to be true.)
So - a politician does drugs in his youth, and is opposed to people being able to take drugs. Does that make him a hypocrite? No, not at all.
If, on the other hand, that politician was of the opinion that anyone who took drugs in his youth should be permanently banned from holding any kind of responsible job, then he would be a hypocrite.
Or if a politician was currently taking recreational drugs whilst supporting them being illegal, he would be a hypocrite.
Current regulatory system is such that for some professions getting picked up for drugs offences in your youth - however minor - can prevent you being able to enter the profession. Don't see Cameron dioing mich to change that.
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
Done some googling, looks like the Human Rights act has resulted in changes to the DBS disclosure rules that would in fact change this.
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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The Rhythm Methodist
Shipmate
# 17064
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Posted
It may be that I have become desensitized - that I've somehow lost that edge of moral outrage, disgust or whatever else I should have felt when the Pig Gate story broke.
Perhaps over-exposure to the more repulsive aspects of human nature has disabled my shock/horror function. I don't suppose years spent running a pub which doubled as a motorcycle gang's HQ has helped. Nonetheless, I'd like to imagine that I would be at least slightly grossed-out if Cameron was accused of being overcome by lust for the pig's head, and had been unable to control his urges. Or if someone had walked in on him, as he furtively did the deed...perhaps repeating the pig's name over and over, as his frenzied thrusting moved to a climax.
But (if it happened) it was a very public display, presumably for the amusement of inebriated youngsters. It just doesn't really register on my vomitometer. A pig blowing on the pork trumpet may be slightly ironic, but - under the circumstances - it seems little more than a prank of dubious taste.
Posts: 202 | From: Wales | Registered: Apr 2012
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
I agree, Rhythm Methodist. I've been baffled by all the hoo ha. There are tons of gross rituals used by kids of all ages and classes, by various professions, and sports people, and so on. This one is not particularly high on the gross out scale. I suppose the fact that it's Cameron has added to the scandal.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
I agree, Rhythm Methodist. I've been baffled by all the hoo ha.
The hoo ha wasn't involved - it was just the pig's mouth.
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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Mere Nick
Shipmate
# 11827
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
What I'm wondering: putting your member into a dead pig is obviously yucky. But is it immoral?
Would you tell your grandmother about it?
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"Well that's it, boys. I've been redeemed. The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions. It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward."
Delmar O'Donnell
Posts: 2797 | From: West Carolina | Registered: Sep 2006
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
Mere Nick: Would you tell your grandmother about it?
Probably not, but that doesn't make it immoral either. There are plenty of things I wouldn't tell to my late grandmother.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Mere Nick
Shipmate
# 11827
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
quote:
Mere Nick: Would you tell your grandmother about it?
Probably not, but that doesn't make it immoral either. There are plenty of things I wouldn't tell to my late grandmother.
Yeah, well, me neither. I don't do animals, though, in case you are wondering.
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"Well that's it, boys. I've been redeemed. The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions. It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward."
Delmar O'Donnell
Posts: 2797 | From: West Carolina | Registered: Sep 2006
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
Mere Nick: Yeah, well, me neither. I don't do animals, though, in case you are wondering.
I wasn't. I guess that if I would do such a thing, my grandmother would call it onfatsounlek (and she'd make a facial expression that would get her point across). This more or less translates as "indecent", "against good costumes". But that's something different from immoral to me.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
Costumes ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
I think the English equivalent would be either "vulgar", or "terribly bad form"
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
The thing is, "bad form" for the very wealthy and privileged might well be seen as "immoral" by us lesser mortals.
It used to be the case* that sons of landed gentry would have their way with the females from the village. The "bad form" would then be getting caught out. Most of us would consider screwing your bound employees to be immoral.
*I suspect it still is, TBH.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
The thing is, "bad form" for the very wealthy and privileged might well be seen as "immoral" by us lesser mortals.
It used to be the case* that sons of landed gentry would have their way with the females from the village. The "bad form" would then be getting caught out. Most of us would consider screwing your bound employees to be immoral.
*I suspect it still is, TBH.
It's a convenient myth that this is an exclusively class issue. All sorts of people who find themselves managers from all levels of society give way to the temptation to exploit female staff in that manner.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
Schroedinger's cat: It used to be the case* that sons of landed gentry would have their way with the females from the village.
Perhaps, but this isn't about Cameron having had his way with a female from the village.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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George Spigot
Outcast
# 253
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
I agree, Rhythm Methodist. I've been baffled by all the hoo ha.
Right. It's not like he did anything really gross and news worthy. Like standing in respectful silence or not doing his top button up.
Posts: 1625 | From: Derbyshire - England | Registered: May 2001
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
Please reassure me. Tell me Donald Trump is a spoof.
He is, but he doesn't know it yet--or is in denial. We've been thinking of doing an intervention.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
I love pigs in blankets, but Mr. Sausage in bacon is going too far.
There again ...
[ 24. September 2015, 21:44: Message edited by: Martin60 ]
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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