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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Bear Grylls pretend terrible nature survival TV shows
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
Great White Hunter encounters wilderness meme makes me vomit. This idiot's TV programs have come to a television channels near me. What a twit, and what incompetent fakery. Wilderness is my adversary - really? In the 21st century! Sensationalism. Stupid risk ideas. Numbskull. He's attached to Scouts? Throw him into the lake! Braggart. He-man. Awful.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Lyda*Rose
Ship's broken porthole
# 4544
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Posted
Yeah, man against the wilderness. And when raw bugs for lunch get tiresome, bum a sandwich off the tech crew. I can't get up much energy to rant at it. It's just a ![[Snore]](graemlins/snore.gif) fest.
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"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano
Posts: 21377 | From: CA | Registered: May 2003
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
"Man against the wilderness." Exactly the problem, you knob. We're supposed to be figuring out how to work WITH the wilderness.
And I just don't get why women swoon all over him, too. Men who spend the bulk of their time talking about how great they are make my dick wilt, I don't care how broad their shoulders might be.
[ 30. October 2016, 08:10: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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mark_in_manchester
not waving, but...
# 15978
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Posted
My daughters (9 and 11) like Steve Backshall. I know he makes kids programs (Deadly 60 etc), but I like him too - he manages to pull off an almost wearying, constant level of 'wow, this is amazing' without apparently polishing his own knob too thoroughly. More natural history than survival program, but along the same lines perhaps.
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"We are punished by our sins, not for them" - Elbert Hubbard
(so good, I wanted to see it after my posts and not only after those of shipmate JBohn from whom I stole it)
Posts: 1596 | Registered: Oct 2010
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
Considering the number of creatures that have tried to eat Our Steve over the years, pretty much a survival program...
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Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
One of my kids called Bear Grylls "douche bag Survivorman" while we were talking today. That's about right. Yes, Les Stroud is far better.
[ 30. October 2016, 20:53: Message edited by: no prophet's flag is set so... ]
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Lucia
Looking for light
# 15201
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Posted
But...but...
Bear will personally invite you to the Alpha course ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Posts: 1075 | From: Nigh golden stone and spires | Registered: Oct 2009
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
Always thought Grylls was an absurd poseur and very much the worst kind of 'outdoors' person. Lord knows Ray Mears is bit of a geek but he is the real thing.
And now Grylls is advertising the Alpha Course- 'my biggest adventure'. It does all fit.
His father was rather disreputable, not of course that that's the son's fault.
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lucia:
But...but...
Bear will personally invite you to the Alpha course
Yes, so all the advertising for Alpha on this side of the pond feature pictures of a guy no one ever heard of/recognizes who inexplicably has mud all over his face, asking you if you have questions... (We do, buy maybe not the ones he wants us to have...)
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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fletcher christian
Mutinous Seadog
# 13919
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Posted
The best one ever was when he went into the wilds of west Ireland to try and survive on the bog at the edge of the Atlantic off sheep carcasses and grass and all at the mercy of the restless wind. Now if he'd headed out to live like a monk on the monastic island of Skellig, chewing on fried guano and raw seagull eggs as the monks did once, then I might have been somewhat impressed. But faffing about on the edge of Moher with the nearest pub but a stones throw did make me chuckle. As he lay there half immersed in a rotting sheep I expected the thurifer and boat boy from the local parish to come trotting past on their way to mass.
[ 04. November 2016, 14:58: Message edited by: fletcher christian ]
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'God is love insaturable, love impossible to describe'
Staretz Silouan
Posts: 5235 | From: a prefecture | Registered: Jul 2008
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by fletcher christian:
The best one ever was when he went into the wilds of west Ireland to try and survive on the bog at the edge of the Atlantic off sheep carcasses and grass and all at the mercy of the restless wind. Now if he'd headed out to live like a monk on the monastic island of Skellig, chewing on fried guano and raw seagull eggs as the monks did once, then I might have been somewhat impressed. But faffing about on the edge of Moher with the nearest pub but a stones throw did make me chuckle. As he lay there half immersed in a rotting sheep I expected the thurifer and boat boy from the local parish to come trotting past on their way to mass.
I looked up that episode.
quote:
And it seems Courteney still hasn't got over the experience a month later: "She emailed me since and I think she's got a bit of post-traumatic stress going on," Bear smiles.
(http://www.independent.ie/entertainment/television/we-had-a-rotting-lamb-carcass-for-dinner-and-i-said-welcome-to-ireland-be ar-grylls-on-courteney-cox-episode-34981128.html)
He's a terrible person if this is what he thinks about PTSD. I thought before that he was just a showman and idiot. Now I know he has cruelty within as well.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
There's a lot of idiots who don't quite Get It™ that PTSD is a real diagnosis with real harm going on. It's possible this guy just said it in the same way idiots say "She's so OCD about that," as if OCD were nothing more than persnicketiness.
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
Wilderness is my adversary - really? In the 21st century!
I wasn't aware that poisonous snakes read calendars.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
I can't help thinking that if Mr Grylls wasn't white, everyone would ooh and ah and say "oh how marvellous, he's showing us how to live off the land".
Everyone would romanticise the shit out of his demonstration that it's possible to survive without a supermarket supplying your food.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
No. Negatory. No one lives off the land like this dunce.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Evangeline
Shipmate
# 7002
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Posted
It's entertainment, contrived situations absolutely but I don't think it's meant to be particularly serious.
It;s all a bit Admirable Crichton-ish, old chap from Eton does it tough but it's hardly as offensive as a lot of other stuff that's on the telly-surely?.
Posts: 2871 | From: "A capsule of modernity afloat in a wild sea" | Registered: May 2004
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
I can't help thinking that if Mr Grylls wasn't white, everyone would ooh and ah and say "oh how marvellous, he's showing us how to live off the land".
Everyone would romanticise the shit out of his demonstration that it's possible to survive without a supermarket supplying your food.
Not really.
Ray Mears treats the land as a colleague. He's slightly round and affable, and tells you where to get the good stuff and how not to get eaten by wolves. He's as white as white can be. People trust Mears.
Bear Grylls treats the land as an adversary. He's lean and wirey and tells you that this crap is terrible but you have to punish yourself by eating it because he's a bit of a dick. People like watching Grylls because of the torment he puts other people through, but trust him? Not so much.
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Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
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fletcher christian
Mutinous Seadog
# 13919
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Posted
Yes, I'm no fan of his normal shows but I do like The Island simply because it's like a live action version of Lost.
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'God is love insaturable, love impossible to describe'
Staretz Silouan
Posts: 5235 | From: a prefecture | Registered: Jul 2008
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
This thread is one of those things that reassures me that I'm not alone. If I had to survive somewhere, I'd take Mears. Not Grylls.
In fact, Grylls is one of those people who, if faced with a choice of survival on an island with them or risking things on a raft cobbled together with instructions from the Odyssey, I'd go for the raft.
[ 06. November 2016, 11:44: Message edited by: Penny S ]
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The5thMary
Shipmate
# 12953
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Posted
I watched dumb old Bear for all of five minutes once. He dramatically bit the head off a rattlesnake and then proceeded to eat the body, scales and all. He didn't eat the entire thing. He took some manly chomps of it and then threw it down to go look for water or a pale ale (his own piss, what could be paler?) or brackish water from a ditch, I didn't wait around to find out. What a complete waste of time, he is. That poor snake...
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God gave me my face but She let me pick my nose.
Posts: 3451 | From: Tacoma, WA USA | Registered: Aug 2007
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venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
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Posted
Pity the Head Scout no longer wears khaki shorts like dear Lord Baden Powell.
If he did Edward Grylls would lose any of his threatening macho.
PS I understand his Christian name is Edward and as a child he wanted to be called Bear. It would be nice to think he was inspired by Winnie the Pooh (Here is Edward Bear going upstairs.)
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Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
Posts: 3201 | From: An historic market town nestling in the folds of Surrey's rolling North Downs, | Registered: Sep 2011
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
The 'posh boy with whimsical family nickname' thing (cf the Revd Frog Orr-Ewing etc). That fits. ![[Projectile]](graemlins/puke2.gif)
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
I watched maybe one episode, and a few other bits, from his series that takes one (American) celebrity out into the back country. Getting to know the celebrity, seeing how fit they are, etc.
Doing an adventure like that is hard enough, especially if you've never done anything like it. But with cameras on you???
IIRC, Bear didn't particularly impress me, one way or the other. I think that's the only one of his series to be on American broadcast TV.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
PS I understand his Christian name is Edward and as a child he wanted to be called Bear. It would be nice to think he was inspired by Winnie the Pooh (Here is Edward Bear going upstairs.)
...thump...thump...thump...
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Curiosity killed ...
Ship's Mug
# 11770
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Posted
The people who really work on those shows are the camera crew. Did anyone else see the diary notes after Planet Earth 2 last night showing how they filmed the penguins on a remote island? Bear Grylls has a group like that supporting him to produce his wilderness films.
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Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat
Posts: 13794 | From: outiside the outer ring road | Registered: Aug 2006
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Tubbs
Miss Congeniality
# 440
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Evangeline:
It's entertainment, contrived situations absolutely but I don't think it's meant to be particularly serious.
It;s all a bit Admirable Crichton-ish, old chap from Eton does it tough but it's hardly as offensive as a lot of other stuff that's on the telly-surely?.
And it's not like anyone is making you watch it. God invented the off and change channel buttons for a reason. It's to make the likes of Bear go away. (Similar responses to Price, Andre and Made in ... and other reality pish)
Tubbs
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"It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it up and remove all doubt" - Dennis Thatcher. My blog. Decide for yourself which I am
Posts: 12701 | From: Someplace strange | Registered: Jun 2001
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fletcher christian
Mutinous Seadog
# 13919
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Posted
I do wish God had invented the remote a lot sooner than when it came.
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'God is love insaturable, love impossible to describe'
Staretz Silouan
Posts: 5235 | From: a prefecture | Registered: Jul 2008
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Tubbs
Miss Congeniality
# 440
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by fletcher christian:
I do wish God had invented the remote a lot sooner than when it came.
OTH, if I had to get up each time I wanted to make the crap on cable go away, I'd be much fitter and have better reflexes.
Tubbs
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"It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it up and remove all doubt" - Dennis Thatcher. My blog. Decide for yourself which I am
Posts: 12701 | From: Someplace strange | Registered: Jun 2001
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Curiosity killed ...:
The people who really work on those shows are the camera crew. Did anyone else see the diary notes after Planet Earth 2 last night showing how they filmed the penguins on a remote island? Bear Grylls has a group like that supporting him to produce his wilderness films.
Upthread I posted about Les Stroud, whose show Survivorman is filemd only by him, no crew, no food, 7 days. So, no, you don't need a crew, and you don't have to gross and stupid.
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Tubbs:
And it's not like anyone is making you watch it. God invented the off and change channel buttons for a reason. It's to make the likes of Bear go away. (Similar responses to Price, Andre and Made in ... and other reality pish)
Tubbs
I'm glad someone said this before I did.
Grylls is offering popular entertainment for the masses. What he does is not designed to meet the exacting standards of a bunch of Christian intellectuals. Just switch the channel. (Better still, switch to Radio 4 if you can!)
As for him being 'posh', there are loads of people on telly like that! If they weren't posh to start with they've become so as a result of their pay packet, associates, and expectations of life.
He may be the wrong sort of Christian as well, but who isn't??
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
Not just posh- don't mind posh. It's the 'full of himself and a bit of a phoney' that I can't stand- that and the awful macho gung-ho and actually IMO ultimately immoral notion that the natural world- about which I harbour no illusions- is primarily something to be'conquered'.
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Latchkey Kid
Shipmate
# 12444
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Curiosity killed ...:
The people who really work on those shows are the camera crew. Did anyone else see the diary notes after Planet Earth 2 last night showing how they filmed the penguins on a remote island? Bear Grylls has a group like that supporting him to produce his wilderness films.
Yes, when people marvel at dangerous climbs etc I always think that a camera person had to do it first, and carrying a camera as well.
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'You must never give way for an answer. An answer is always the stretch of road that's behind you. Only a question can point the way forward.'
Mika; in Hello? Is Anybody There?, Jostein Gaardner
Posts: 2592 | From: The wizardest little town in Oz | Registered: Mar 2007
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
On regular nature shows, AIUI, they often manipulate nature, stage the area with fake things, etc.
Sir David Attenborough, who does that kind of show, said that you can't really make nature do what you want.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Curiosity killed ...
Ship's Mug
# 11770
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Posted
The use of drones is making some things easier. This crew (Planet Earth 2 is the latest David Attenborough programme) surveyed this South Atlantic island by drone before landing and filming for a few days. They were just filming wildlife and this footage was pretty grim. Some of the drone footage was used in the final film.
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Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat
Posts: 13794 | From: outiside the outer ring road | Registered: Aug 2006
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goperryrevs
Shipmtae
# 13504
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Posted
I say screw the cynics. Yes, there are lots of other people who do real survival things much better. And yes, lots of the situations he puts himself are pretend and contrived and ridiculous. But, what do you expect? It's TV entertainment. And, for my seven year old daughter, it's GREAT entertainment.
Thank you Bear Grylls, because you helped me to get her excited about nature and the outdoors, and learn about food and the animals we eat. You got her excited about geography with all the different countries and landscapes you visited.
It's hard as a parent to stop your child wanting to just sit inside looking at screens. But at least I can switch the channel to Bear, and after watching him she wants to go outside, go camping, build a den and have adventures. Quoting Bear's "dig deep, finish strong" helped me teach her to swim and not give up. Hurrah for Bear!
This thread reminds me that (or so I've heard) all the 'proper' physicists hate Brian Cox. Because he's not enough of a proper scientist, and just a TV/radio whore, or something. Hate all you want, but I'm sure Brian Cox has inspired more people to get interested in Physics than those true experts ever did.
Getting them interested... that's the tricky bit. And say what you want, the Bear Grylls and Brian Cox's of the world inspire people. And that's no mean feat.
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"Keep your eye on the donut, not on the hole." - David Lynch
Posts: 2098 | From: Midlands | Registered: Mar 2008
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
Proper physicists don't hate Brian Cox. We're jealous of Brian Cox. Totally different.
(But Grylls is still a bit of a knob. /TeamMears)
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Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
One of the ladies in our Oxfam has a relation in Cox's department. He has, apparently, an opinion of him which is not entirely admiration.
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goperryrevs
Shipmtae
# 13504
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
(But Grylls is still a bit of a knob. /TeamMears)
Well, I say hurrah for Grylls and hurrah for Mears. I reckon the survival entertainment world is large enough for the both of them ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
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"Keep your eye on the donut, not on the hole." - David Lynch
Posts: 2098 | From: Midlands | Registered: Mar 2008
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
I don't care about posh, I don't care that I can turn to watch some other psychocrapple. I care that doofuses like Grylls affect the population to consider the natural world in totally messed up numbnut way. Which causes a myriad of negative effects.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
Eh? How does Grylls 'affect the population' (apart from clever people like you)?
Maybe his shows do have more impact in Canada, where you have a lot of wilderness for overactive people to mess up. But most British people are fairly sedentary, and there's hardly any wilderness left. Some of us will go for country walks or do a bit of fishing, but 'survivalism' isn't much of a thing here, if that's what you're referring to. Planning permission difficulties make it hard for hippies in yurts, etc.
The biggest problem we have with the 'natural world' here is that we feel obliged to build all over it. That's not Grylls' doing.
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
You can't do survival here because:
1. Everywhere belongs to someone with enough money for lawyers.
2. Killing things on their land is criminal unless you have permission. Killing protected species is also illegal but that doesn't matter if you have enough money for lawyers.
3. You can't legally eat roadkill you have been responsible for killing. Only other people's roadkill.
4. There is always a dead sheep upstream of where you want to drink. (I thought this was a rural myth, but I've seen enough on field trips to know it's probably true.)
5. If it's a spring, there's probably something toxic in the water. (I drank at Malham Cove, forgetting the lead mines. There's also fertiliser, herbicides, livestock slurry etc.)
6. Wild camping is not allowed without permission. See 1.
7. You can't find out who land belongs to as it isn't all in the Land Registry.
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
Eh? How does Grylls 'affect the population' (apart from clever people like you
It portrays the natural world in a totally inaccurate manner. Makes people think living in wilderness is very difficult. Reinforces disconnection from nature.
I get that in the UK, it is too late for some, particularly in the south. In some areas 70-90% have never been in a noncity location. Which I learned about when my daughter taught Forest School in London. People like Grylls make it worse.
Yes, we often take wilderness for granted in Canada. When even over cities people stop for 20 or 30 minutes as geese fly over head. Everyone just stops sometimes. It isn't about being smart, it's about a grevious loss to humanity, to have lost the spiritual connection to the web of life. I get that a bit of the Celt thing tries.....
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
I do know how to make a gypsy well - from Mears. I also know to carry a bit of candle to light the fire - from failing my firelighting test at Guide camp.
This was because there were two of us to be tested, and we were told our patrol supper would be cooked on our fire. The other girl was tested first. On a day which any amateur meteorologist in the SE could date because it was the day after the worst thunderstorm in August for years. She could not light the fire. I assumed that there would be no supper. I also assumed that since my test was due the day after, my lighting the fire with my bit of candle was no big deal. Up come Captain, astonished that one patrol had a lit fire, to ask how it was done, and like an idiot, I told her. Black mark, that was.
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
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Curiosity killed ...
Ship's Mug
# 11770
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Posted
Spring water with dead sheep upstream is not recommended. Been there, done that, had the severe food poisoning. Neither do I recommend walking the Pennine Way with said food poisoning.
(Crowden Beck YHA, when it existed - the staff at Mankinholes YHA looked at the group of us walking in, arriving pretty sick and recognised the symptoms. Those who only drank tea and coffee did better.)
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Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat
Posts: 13794 | From: outiside the outer ring road | Registered: Aug 2006
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
Mankyholes has long been known as the place where the PW Lurgy sets in.
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
Makes people think living in wilderness is very difficult.
Be sure to turn off your computer before you go to bed. Wouldn't want it to turn off unexpectedly when the campfire that's powering it sputters and dies, you know what happens when the shutdown isn't clean.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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