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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Eccles: Cantata? Another one? So Soon?
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Circuit Rider
Ship's Itinerant
# 13088
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Posted
Now that the Advent/Christmas/Epiphany cycle is over I am being asked about setting a date for the "Easter cantata," which means a Sunday morning during Lent to have our excuse for a choir take up my liturgy time to belt out one of those canned productions with sappy narrations, cliche-laden lyrics, and difficult (but not necessarily good) music.
I am told these are "very meaningful" for the singers (and those who can't carry a tune in a bucket) and the congregation. I endured the production on the fourth Sunday of Advent and I am dreading this one too. They want a Sunday morning service.
I hate these things but I don't want a war, so I am trying to be open-minded. Since Sundays in Lent are glimpses of the resurrection, what are your thoughts on Easter cantatas? Should the liturgy be interrupted? Would these not be better performed on Sunday evening or on a Sunday in Eastertide? Have you ever known of an Easter cantata being performed after Easter day during Eastertide?
Do I need to just buck up? ![[Help]](graemlins/help.gif)
[ 29. September 2011, 07:34: Message edited by: Spike ]
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I felt my heart strangely warmed ... and realised I had spilt hot coffee all over myself.
Posts: 715 | From: Somewhere in the Heart of Dixie | Registered: Oct 2007
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dj_ordinaire
Host
# 4643
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Posted
Well, that sounds... potentially quite grisly! Surely there are plenty of song cycles suitable for Lent and Passiontide they could sing instead? And why not on Sunday afternoon? Then you would have an excuse to try to publicise the event more widely, take extra collections for local charities, etc. etc?
Everybody would be a winner because then the choir would have the excuse to do one about Easter when it actually IS Easter.
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Flinging wide the gates...
Posts: 10335 | From: Hanging in the balance of the reality of man | Registered: Jun 2003
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multipara
Shipmate
# 2918
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Posted
Tenebrae during Holy Week, perhaps?
Or is that too "katholik" for this lot?
just my 2 bob's worth,
m
Posts: 4985 | From: new south wales | Registered: Jun 2002
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The Silent Acolyte
Shipmate
# 1158
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Posted
Did they do this last year during Lent? If so, you are probably doomed.
Can you tell us which one it is?
[ 26. January 2011, 11:28: Message edited by: The Silent Acolyte ]
Posts: 7462 | From: The New World | Registered: Aug 2001
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Fuzzipeg
Shipmate
# 10107
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Posted
There's always Stainer's Crucifixion. Easy to sing, not the greatest to listen to but it's not too long. At least they would feel they were doing something serious and it does fit in with Lent.
[ 26. January 2011, 11:31: Message edited by: Fuzzipeg ]
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http://foodybooze.blogspot.co.za
Posts: 929 | From: Johannesburg, South Africa | Registered: Aug 2005
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Pre-cambrian
Shipmate
# 2055
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Posted
And the Bums On Seats seem to like it (lots of hymns so things for them to do).
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"We cannot leave the appointment of Bishops to the Holy Ghost, because no one is confident that the Holy Ghost would understand what makes a good Church of England bishop."
Posts: 2314 | From: Croydon | Registered: Dec 2001
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Barefoot Friar
Ship's Shoeless Brother
# 13100
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Posted
<Horrified look>"But, it isn't Easter yet! You don't want to sing Easter songs before Easter, do you? The Easter Bunny might get confused!" <Walk away, looking surprised and hurt>
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Do your little bit of good where you are; its those little bits of good put together that overwhelm the world. -- Desmond Tutu
Posts: 1621 | From: Warrior Mountains | Registered: Oct 2007
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
Ours is on the evening of Palm Sunday, in the years we do one. Which is subject to the choir master having time to give us additional practice. It doesn't interrupt the usual Sunday Eucharist; we get the usual evensong attenders plus additional 'occasionals' who enjoy listening to a Passiontide devotion with additional congregational hymn singing.
eta I think the OP might mean different sort of music than the type we sing - more likely to be Victorian with lots of death and pathos.
[ 26. January 2011, 12:37: Message edited by: Chorister ]
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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Up In Smoke
Shipmate
# 10971
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Posted
Circuit Rider, I agree with your assessment of the quality of these cantatas--we're not talking Bach here. I grew up singing in choirs that did them regularly and, yes, the choir and most of the congregation seemed to like them. The question of when (presuming "if" is not an option for you)to schedule the Easter cantata might be influenced by the particular cantata being proposed. In my own experience, many of these "Easter" cantatas are more accurately "passion" cantatas, which conclude with a number about the Resurrection itself. If that is the case in your situation, perhaps you could sever, um, reserve, the final "glorious" chorus, do the passion portion on a Sunday [afternoon?] in Lent and save the finale for Easter Day. Just a thought. No easy solutions to this situation, but I really appreciate your approach to working for change in your congregation. Best of luck.
Posts: 109 | From: The Left Coast | Registered: Feb 2006
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Organ Builder
Shipmate
# 12478
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Posted
I suspect, CR, that most of our non-US shipmates will not have a firm grasp of exactly what you mean by "cantata" or the place it has in the hearts and minds of small-to-medium Southern congregations.
I'd love to give you a clever idea (having suffered through a few of these productions myself) but I'm afraid you're probably doomed.
The Stainer might sound like a reasonable proposal, but it will be viewed as hopelessly old-fashioned by your people because they can't get a canned accompaniment recording with which to sing along.
I'll bet some of your people also go to hear cantatas at other churches--and there'll probably be a few strangers when you have yours. In fact, your best shot at avoiding a Sunday morning performance MIGHT be that having it in the afternoon or evening makes it possible for more non-church members to attend.
Nonetheless, I'd love for you to tell me I'm mistaken and they are going to be doing Bach's "St. Matthew Passion".
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How desperately difficult it is to be honest with oneself. It is much easier to be honest with other people.--E.F. Benson
Posts: 3337 | From: ...somewhere in between 40 and death... | Registered: Mar 2007
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Olaf
Shipmate
# 11804
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Posted
Cantatas are a sacred cow.
You mentioned many good alternate times, Circuit Rider, but we Americans wrap up our holidays on the day (if not before). After Easter will be almost certainly be a no-go, especially with Easter so late this year.
It's time to negotiate: I give a little, you give a little. Perhaps you can convince them to atone for their Lenten violation by pulling off the Easter Sequence Victimae Paschali Laudes before the Gospel on Easter Sunday,as appointed, in Latin. ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
Posts: 8953 | From: Ad Midwestem | Registered: Sep 2006
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Curiosity killed ...
Ship's Mug
# 11770
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Posted
Our joint church choir does this sort of thing as outreach - so on Good Friday evening providing a meditation or outreach to people who wouldn't normally come to a service. It has included things like a pathway through the season in music and readings or Stainer's Crucifixion or ...
They also do a Christmas reflections version on the Friday before Christmas.
It's a very valuable outreach as it attracts those who wouldn't otherwise come to services.
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Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat
Posts: 13794 | From: outiside the outer ring road | Registered: Aug 2006
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Beeswax Altar
Shipmate
# 11644
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Posted
If they insist on having it on or before Easter, what about Laetare?
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Losing sleep is something you want to avoid, if possible.
-Og: King of Bashan
Posts: 8411 | From: By a large lake | Registered: Jul 2006
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The Silent Acolyte
Shipmate
# 1158
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Organ Builder:
I suspect, CR, that most of our non-US shipmates will not have a firm grasp of exactly what you mean by "cantata" or the place it has in the hearts and minds of small-to-medium Southern congregations.
I'm afraid this US-bound shipmates has no grasp at all of what is meant by '"cantata."' Perhaps someone can help me out.
You say "cantata." I reflexively say "Bach."
Posts: 7462 | From: The New World | Registered: Aug 2001
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Circuit Rider
Ship's Itinerant
# 13088
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Silent Acolyte:
quote:
Originally posted by Organ Builder:
I suspect, CR, that most of our non-US shipmates will not have a firm grasp of exactly what you mean by "cantata" or the place it has in the hearts and minds of small-to-medium Southern congregations.
I'm afraid this US-bound shipmates has no grasp at all of what is meant by '"cantata."' Perhaps someone can help me out.
You say "cantata." I reflexively say "Bach."
Anything but! I am speaking of a packaged program, hastily written and produced, with recorded accompaniment music (although it could be played by church musicians). Songs will have themes and quotations from Scripture and also be laden with trite religious cliches, particularly those popular in the culture at a given time, making them dated. They are written for choirs with four parts but they are difficult to sing because they are many times poorly written, and this is readily and painfully apparent when the choir is not accomplished in singing harmony (as with small churches like mine).
These cantatas tell a story and have narration and sometimes drama interwoven. The sample I received in the mail begins with John the disciple telling of following Jesus from the miraculous catch (Epiphanytide) through the passion (Lent) to the resurrection (Easter). Sometimes there will be allusions or excerpts to familiar hymns or choruses, but they are largely new compositions. Referring to these compositions as "cantatas" has definitely diminished the meaning of the word to me: I cringe when I hear it.
Here is a random example of one such production. There are six products one may purchase to perform this particular production. I have not heard this particular one so I can't comment on it specifically; I am speaking generally.
Definitely not Bach. It is a musical production particularly for liturgically disadvantaged congregations. In fact, they are not intended to fit into the liturgy, although in some cases individual pieces could be performed alone if they fit into the theme of the day. As has already been pointed out they are popular in Southern settings, particularly in rural areas.
Now do you see why I am dreading this?
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I felt my heart strangely warmed ... and realised I had spilt hot coffee all over myself.
Posts: 715 | From: Somewhere in the Heart of Dixie | Registered: Oct 2007
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
This does sound like an updated version of the "Service of (Sacred) Song" which was very popular in British nonconformist chapels from about 1870 - 1910: a form of Christian musical, of a spiritually improving nature, at which the choir could supposedly demonstrate its abilities, and usually put on to raise funds for a "Good Cause".
Of course they didn't use prerecorded music but were accompanied on the piano.
As a missionary in Africa in the early 1980s, one of my American colleagues led a choir in performing a cantata each year. One year it was "Glorious Night of Miracles" (and I remember I had to do some cutting and splicing of the backing tape for her - very fiddly!) The whole exercise was very popular but hardly seemed culturally relevant.
All this makes Stainer sound positively "high-brow"! Eat your heart out, Johann Sebastian!
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Barefoot Friar
Ship's Shoeless Brother
# 13100
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Posted
My original response was quite a bit more hellish than helpful. Suffice to say if they want to do a "contata", write your own. Use Lenten hymns (preferably by Wesley) from the various sources at hand. Hire a pianist and/or organist for the event. Hold it in the afternoon or evening, as was suggested upthread, so that "all your friends and family can come and enjoy it too!". Climax with Christ's death, or with the tomb. If they want cheesy narration, use the crucifixion narrative straight from the Bible, read by someone on the rota or by a youth.
In other words, let them win this one, but on your own terms. You mentioned elsewhere that the choir director is leaving... make your move, but carefully.
And ![[Votive]](graemlins/votive.gif)
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Do your little bit of good where you are; its those little bits of good put together that overwhelm the world. -- Desmond Tutu
Posts: 1621 | From: Warrior Mountains | Registered: Oct 2007
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georgiaboy
Shipmate
# 11294
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Posted
It may not fit your congo's idea of 'cantata,' but an idea which has worked well for me is a Lent/Passion take on the Lessons & Carols framework. Simply put, use brief scripture passages (well-read!), from the Gospels, the 'Suffering Servant' passages for Isaiah, etc., interspersing them with some good, familiar apprpriate hymns (so the congo) gets to take some vocal part) and several anthems which the choir can do well, from very simple to as complicated as they can manage. Add an introduction ('Bidding Prayer') and some concluding prayers, and Voila! a 'cantata' with not too much stress, and perhaps something new to the assembly.
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You can't retire from a calling.
Posts: 1675 | From: saint meinrad, IN | Registered: Apr 2006
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Episcoterian
Shipmate
# 13185
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Posted
Last year my choir went through some hard times... In some rehearsals I got as few as four choristers, and often had to call off our participation in the Liturgy due to lack of quorum. Some of you will remember a thread I posted about it.
At the time I was precisely trying to escape the cantata-driven model of choir administration, which has a decade-long history in our church. I was aiming to have us sing a couple anthems every Eucharist (monthly) at least, but never had the numbers. So I decided to shut it down for good, which I did. It was just after Pentecost.
By October our pastor urged me to try and set up another cantata for Christmas. You know, some Don Moen, Tom Fettke, John W. Peterson affair.
In 2009 we managed to pull off a very decent, very traditional-style Nine Lessons and Carols service and I'd be glad to do it again, but this time the pastor was adamant; we needed a full-blown cantata, concert-style, perhaps even with some dramatisation to go along, in order to "stir them up", both the congo and the choir.
The least trite opus I've managed to dig from the few publishers available, and also considering the inexperience of most of the new choristers and the general unavailability of organists, was Robert Sterling's One of us. No dramatisation, most of the voice-overs were plain Scripture (and the ones which weren't, I caused them to be), the playback accompaniment wasn't that bad.
And didn't it work? Almost 30 people, from three different churches, signed up; the largest choir I've ever conducted.
What bugs me the most is this:
They were all willing to commit to two rehearsals, four to five hours a week total, to do three full performances and a cameo in a charity event. And they're willing to do it again for Easter.
They will endure 5 hours a week of rehearsals for about four months to do three or four large performances a year.
But are not willing to commit to two hours per week to sing one or two anthems every month, which is to sing a lot more with a lot less stress.
Is it because the cantatas are "big" and regular participation in the Liturgy is not? Makes me wonder about their reasons to be there in the first place. ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
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"We cannot let individualism make corporate worship impossible!" (iMonk)
I'm on Facebook too!
Posts: 286 | From: Franca, SP, Brazil | Registered: Nov 2007
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ChippedChalice
Shipmate
# 14057
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Posted
These "cantatas" sound absolutely hilarious.
I would love to see one -- but not at my church, of course.
Very sorry to anybody who has to put up with them on a regular basis.
This reminds me of the struggles I used to engage in with my first parish's "Svenska Klubben" (Swedish Club) over the structure of our annual Sankta Lucia pageant.
I finally just gave in, let them do whatever they wanted, and enjoyed the meatball dinner -- which was absolutely delicious.
Posts: 131 | From: Chicago | Registered: Aug 2008
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Belle Ringer
Shipmate
# 13379
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Episcoterian:
Almost 30 people, from three different churches, signed up; the largest choir I've ever conducted.
What bugs me the most is this:
They were all willing to commit to two rehearsals, four to five hours a week total, to do three full performances and a cameo in a charity event. And they're willing to do it again for Easter.
They will endure 5 hours a week of rehearsals for about four months to do three or four large performances a year.
But are not willing to commit to two hours per week to sing one or two anthems every month, which is to sing a lot more with a lot less stress.
Is it because the cantatas are "big" and regular participation in the Liturgy is not? Makes me wonder about their reasons to be there in the first place.
Two quick thoughts -
1. You mentioned the singers are from several different churches, maybe they are willing to skip their church for yours briefly but not switch churches permanently?
2. I know a lot of people who used to sing in choir for years but tired of it, now sit in a pew. The two most commonly stated reasons are the relentless obligation of every Wednesday evening plus every Sunday morning, and the low quality of music that can be learned in one or two rehearsals and done with an unknown assortment of singers who may or may not be the same ones who showed up for rehearsal.
A special event is temporary obligation instead of relentlessly indefinite, and because it's temporary singers show up for most rehearsals which means they can do better (more involved and involving) music or better sound with easy music. Being able to do better music may feel like they are making a more solid contribution to the worship.
Posts: 5830 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2008
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Up In Smoke
Shipmate
# 10971
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Posted
Originally posted by Episcoterian:
quote:
the pastor was adamant; we needed a full-blown cantata, concert-style
The telling word here is "concert." All the more reason to stage these theatricals outside the Sunday morning liturgy. These productions only serve to heighten the dichotomous performer/audience model of worship, not a good thing in my estimation.
Posts: 109 | From: The Left Coast | Registered: Feb 2006
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daviddrinkell
Shipmate
# 8854
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Posted
There's a whole rat-pack of horrible concoctions under the name of Singspiration. ![[Projectile]](graemlins/puke2.gif)
Stainer's 'Crucifixion' seems to be respectable again, after years out in the cold. I've always liked it.
We do a 'meditation' on Palm Sunday based on the Royal School of Church Music's 'The Cross of Christ' (which has just been reprinted - hooray! - with the words updated - boo!), but with different music. Last year, it was all Bach because my Presbyterian friend and I had just finished a complete Bach organ works series. Said meditation, though, follows on after choral Evensong (Anglicans aren't supposed to mess about with the ordained liturgies). Starting with the Preces and using a concise setting for the canticles (last year it was Gibbons' Short Service), the Office takes about 20 minutes. The 'meditation' follows at the point where the Prayer Book says, 'in quires and places where they sing, here followeth the Anthem'.
It works for us.
On Easter Day itself, the main morning service couldn't be anything but Eucharist. We aim to do a fairly big mass setting - maybe Mozart of Haydn - but it wouldn't be appropriate to put in a major musical 'production' as well. Evensong is lower key, but still appropriate to Easter - maybe Stanford in C.
I guess it all depends on your tradition, but I always feel it's wrong to go all out for a particular splurge now and again rather than aim for somethign worthwhile every Sunday.
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David
Posts: 1983 | From: St. John's, Newfoundland | Registered: Dec 2004
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Episcoterian
Shipmate
# 13185
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Belle Ringer:
Two quick thoughts -
1. You mentioned the singers are from several different churches, maybe they are willing to skip their church for yours briefly but not switch churches permanently?
2. I know a lot of people who used to sing in choir for years but tired of it, now sit in a pew. The two most commonly stated reasons are the relentless obligation of every Wednesday evening plus every Sunday morning, and the low quality of music that can be learned in one or two rehearsals and done with an unknown assortment of singers who may or may not be the same ones who showed up for rehearsal.
A special event is temporary obligation instead of relentlessly indefinite, and because it's temporary singers show up for most rehearsals which means they can do better (more involved and involving) music or better sound with easy music. Being able to do better music may feel like they are making a more solid contribution to the worship.
Belle,
The singers from other churches came only for last year's Christmas cantata; they hadn't been part of the choir's previous incarnation.
That leaves me with some twenty-odd people from my own shack, most of whom had been part of the choir somewhere in the past.
You're probably on to something, when you suggest the general higher commitment for the special event, and consequent higher quality in the outcome might pique their interest in a way the "regular stuff" does not. Especially since we got into this vicious circle of not singing often, people losing interest in going to the rehearsals, which leads to even less singing...
Then I'm stuck with the question of how to keep their interest after Easter, when we switch back to "normal" schedule. That is four Tuesday night rehearsals and one on the Sunday we sing; one monthly participation in the Liturgy doing Introit and Anthem, usually one new piece and another from the archives.
I try to choose the repertoire according to their current (beginner to intermediate) music skills and hit them with a more challenging piece once every now and then.
Some have said we would get more people if we sang more often, but that would raise time and commitment requirements, causing me to lose the ones who already have too much to do in other church departments.
So I'm at a loss on what else to try...
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"We cannot let individualism make corporate worship impossible!" (iMonk)
I'm on Facebook too!
Posts: 286 | From: Franca, SP, Brazil | Registered: Nov 2007
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Belle Ringer
Shipmate
# 13379
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Episcoterian:
You're probably on to something, when you suggest the general higher commitment for the special event, and consequent higher quality in the outcome might pique their interest in a way the "regular stuff" does not.
I've been wondering similarly, because I'm working on helping redesign the "time and talent" pledge card.
One church nearby has a music program based primarily on four people who do solos/duets/quartet, the choir is once a month (weekly rehearsals). Sometimes instrumentalists provide the "anthem" instead of vocalists - the congregation has a flute player, a sax player. Weekly music, monthly choir.
I'm wondering about having choir members sign up for a season instead of "forever," has anyone tried that? Fall through Christmas, then January through Easter, then spring through early summer. I'm wondering if that would feel more like the specific commitment a cantata gets, and people would show up regularly for that specific commitment.
I am awed at you choir directors, managing to produce music with no idea who is going to show up to rehearse, who is going to show up to sing, whether the two groups will have sufficient overlap. And you still have hair! Mine would be torn out.
Posts: 5830 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2008
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Amazing Grace
High Church Protestant
# 95
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Posted
A couple of data points:
One shipmate says that his former parish (heavily student-populated) had good success with recruiting for a "Christmas choir" to fill in for the mostly-student so mostly-gone-at-Christmas regular choirs. People committed to the rehearsals through December and singing at the choral Christmas masses. They worked at it, but it had a definite end date.
I am told that at my own parish, both attendance at rehearsals and the choir numbers ticked up noticeably when TFBG switched to the "carrot" approach of "if you commit to rehearsals we will do 'more interesting music'" instead of nagging them about blowing off rehearsals.
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WTFWED? "Remember to always be yourself, unless you suck" - the Gator
Memory Eternal! Sheep 3, Phil the Wise Guy, and Jesus' Evil Twin in the SoF Nativity Play
Posts: 6593 | From: Sittin' by the dock of the [SF] bay | Registered: Jul 2003
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
quote:
I am awed at you choir directors, managing to produce music with no idea who is going to show up to rehearse, who is going to show up to sing, whether the two groups will have sufficient overlap.
Our choir has a list pinned to the back of the music cupboard's door. People are asked to sign out - as far as possible in advance - if they know they will not be present at any service and/or rehearsal. This helps with planning, as we are only a small group (especially with regard to gentlemen).
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
We're meant to email our choir director with all dates we're not available.
I do find it interesting that one of our least regular attenders is always the one to complain loudly if we don't do a Holy Week devotion.
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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The Silent Acolyte
Shipmate
# 1158
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Circuit Rider:
quote:
Originally posted by The Silent Acolyte:
quote:
Originally posted by Organ Builder:
I suspect, CR, that most of our non-US shipmates will not have a firm grasp of exactly what you mean by "cantata" or the place it has in the hearts and minds of small-to-medium Southern congregations.
I'm afraid this US-bound shipmates has no grasp at all of what is meant by '"cantata."' Perhaps someone can help me out.
You say "cantata." I reflexively say "Bach."
Anything but! I am speaking of a packaged program, hastily written and produced
...<and many more depressing words>...
Now do you see why I am dreading this?
Yes, I do. Poor dear. It makes me want to show up, unbidden, on your door-step with chocolate brownies.
Posts: 7462 | From: The New World | Registered: Aug 2001
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Circuit Rider
Ship's Itinerant
# 13088
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Posted
The sudden departure of the disgruntled music guy created a wonderful opportunity for a suitable cantata substitute. On Palm Sunday we will observe the liturgy of the palms and the liturgy of the passion. The children will process with palm branches. Music will be chosen to compliment the readings in between, sung mostly by the choir; and a conversational translation (such as The Message) will be used for the readings. I will forgo the sermon to allow for extra music. That way it will have the feel of the cantata they want but give respect to the liturgy of the day. A win-win situation. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
[ 18. February 2011, 18:52: Message edited by: Circuit Rider ]
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I felt my heart strangely warmed ... and realised I had spilt hot coffee all over myself.
Posts: 715 | From: Somewhere in the Heart of Dixie | Registered: Oct 2007
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Mamacita
Lakefront liberal
# 3659
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Circuit Rider:
The sudden departure of the disgruntled music guy
What's that warm breeze coming from the South? Could it be a big sigh of relief? ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
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Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world’s grief. Do justly, now. Love mercy, now. Walk humbly, now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it.
Posts: 20761 | From: where the purple line ends | Registered: Dec 2002
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Curiosity killed ...
Ship's Mug
# 11770
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Posted
We get a dramatised Passion reading and no sermon on Palm Sunday - which might be an additional compromise that looks friendly.
I still reckon you missed a trick not suggesting that they were extremely valuable outreach and finding a slot for them to provide something like Stainer's Crucifixion to a wider audience - and those who don't normally attend church - one suitable evening at a different times from the services.
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Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat
Posts: 13794 | From: outiside the outer ring road | Registered: Aug 2006
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Aravis
Shipmate
# 13824
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Posted
Aagh! Someone mentioned "Glorious Night of Miracles" and it's made me start singing it!!
It was about 30 years ago that I had to sing it with the church choir. Most of the choir were over 60 and couldn't really read music, so we note-bashed extensively.
(I was a teenager at the time and had a piano lesson with the church organist immediately before the rehearsal, so it was fairly difficult to escape...)
Posts: 689 | From: S Wales | Registered: Jun 2008
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Episcoterian
Shipmate
# 13185
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Posted
For Easter, we're pulling Tom Fettke's (ugh) Above all kings out of the archives.
Since it's an easier one, I can redeem myself by making the choir sing some good stuff for Palm Sunday, Maundy Thursday, Tenebrae and the Easter Sunday morning Eucharist.
The cantata is traditionally performed in the evening service on Easter Sunday.
It shall be a busy season!
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"We cannot let individualism make corporate worship impossible!" (iMonk)
I'm on Facebook too!
Posts: 286 | From: Franca, SP, Brazil | Registered: Nov 2007
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Alogon
Cabin boy emeritus
# 5513
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Posted
I don't see how we can dismiss the use of a cantata on Sunday morning in principle. For example, it was customary weekly in eighteenth-century Lutheran churches whose doctrine and worship were notably conservative and traditionalist. Some of them even used Latin. And how marvelously JSB (among others) rose to the occasion!
A few Lutheran and Episcopal churches in the U.S. maintain Bach cantatas regularly on Sunday mornings. Long may they continue to do so, although I wouldn't particularly agitate for more of them. They are definitely a niche market when most people complain about a church service lasting more than 60-90 minutes. Given time and resources, my idea of perfection would be the commoner Catholic custom of a deep and varied repertoire of sung mass ordinaries, together with some mixture of Gregorian and figured settings of the minor propers. But it is a premise of the O.P. here that the people appreciate a cantata on at least one Sunday a year. Can we complain about that?
It's all a matter of quality of repertoire, from Bach through Stainer and Dubois down to Caleb Simper and whatever successor Vielschreiber the publishers are plugging today. May I ask to what extent the stuff being discussed is representative of what is heard the remainder of the year? If it is atypical, then taste should be subject to gradual improvement. If not, then I'd call the situation hopeless and look for greener pastures.
Do you think that an issue of stewardship might work in your favor? Like clothing, music of such poor quality that it can be used only once is a waste of the church's money. Wouldn't it be better to invest in something that wears longer?
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Patriarchy (n.): A belief in original sin unaccompanied by a belief in God.
Posts: 7808 | From: West Chester PA | Registered: Feb 2004
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Barefoot Friar
Ship's Shoeless Brother
# 13100
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Posted
I believe the Circuit Rider is referring to the first two that you linked, Lyda*Rose. Although that first one has far more Scripture reading than most I have encountered.
I find them painful at best.
[ 23. February 2011, 10:47: Message edited by: Padre Joshua ]
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Do your little bit of good where you are; its those little bits of good put together that overwhelm the world. -- Desmond Tutu
Posts: 1621 | From: Warrior Mountains | Registered: Oct 2007
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