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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Kerygmania: The Psalm Thread
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Nigel M
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Posted
The idea of comparing various English translations is a good one, too; it helps to get a feel for the likely meaning. A useful question to ask for whatever Psalm you choose is, "Why is that in the Bible?" It can spark off a study into the background, what it might have meant for the Jewish audience / readers at the time, as well as digging deeper into what significance God would want us to draw from it for today.
And if MouseThief could provide a pithy summary of Psalm 119 (118 LXX), I'd be grateful.
Nigel
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TubaMirum
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I think I've posted this before, but I've really grown to like Young's Literal Translation, which is explained this way at the site:
quote:
The Bible text designated YLT is from the 1898 Young's Literal Translation by Robert Young who also compiled Young's Analytical Concordance. This is an extremely literal translation that attempts to preserve the tense and word usage as found in the original Greek and Hebrew writings. The text was scanned from a reprint of the 1898 edition as published by Baker Book House, Grand Rapids Michigan. The book is still in print and may be ordered from Baker Book House. Obvious errors in spelling or inconsistent spellings of the same word were corrected in the computer edition of the text.
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TubaMirum
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Posted
OK, J.S. Bach (and Happy Feast Day, BTW!), here is post #1 of EFM stuff.
The Bibliography (and recommended reading) for the Psalms chapter is this group of four books, taken from the materials verbatim:
quote:
- Bernhard W. Anderson, Understanding the Old Testament, 4th ed. (Prentice Hall, Inc. 1986), pp 540-567.
- Sigmund Mowinckel, The Psalms in Israel’s Worship, 2 vols. (Abington, 1962)
- J.W. Rogerson and J.W. McKay, Cambridge Bible Commentary on the New English Bible, 3 vols., (Cambridge University Press, 1977). For most readers this is the best commentary on the Psalms. It exists in paperback at a reasonable price.
- Arthur Weiser, The Psalms, The Old Testament Library Series. (Westminster Press, 1962).
At least part of the 2nd book on the list, Mowinckel's The Psalms in Israel’s Worship, can be found at Google Books. That one seems to be quoted frequently throughout the chapter, too.
More later.
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CuppaT
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Posted
If you would like something a little lighter, though very though provoking, J.S. Bach, you could read Christ in the Psalms by Patrick Henry Reardon and use its meditations as a springboard for discussions.
You hit my favorite Psalm, Nigel -- 118 (LXX).
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Stand at the brink of the abyss of despair, and when you see that you cannot bear it any longer, draw back a little and have a cup of tea.
~Elder Sophrony
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Nigel M
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by CuppaT:
If you would like something a little lighter, though very though provoking, J.S. Bach, you could read Christ in the Psalms by Patrick Henry Reardon and use its meditations as a springboard for discussions.
You hit my favorite Psalm, Nigel -- 118 (LXX).
There's a similarity in theme between 1 and 118/119, isn't there?
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CuppaT
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quote:
Originally posted by Nigel M:
There's a similarity in theme between 1 and 118/119, isn't there?
How so? I don't see it yet, but we can all think on it while you are replying.
CuppaT
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Stand at the brink of the abyss of despair, and when you see that you cannot bear it any longer, draw back a little and have a cup of tea.
~Elder Sophrony
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J.S. Bach
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Many thanks, everyone, for the psalm study suggestions. I've bookmarked this page and will share your suggestions with the group once we start up again.
Blessings,
JSB
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Nigel M
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by CuppaT:
quote:
Originally posted by Nigel M:
There's a similarity in theme between 1 and 118/119, isn't there?
How so? I don't see it yet, but we can all think on it while you are replying.
What struck me was that Psalm 1 could be said to be a summary of Psalm 119 (118): Blessed is the one who follows God’s laws.
Both Psalms use the same terminology and when it was fashionable to categorise biblical literature into genres, these two had the label “Wisdom” plopped onto them. Obviously 119 has more room to expand on the ‘Blessed-is-the-one-who-follows-God’s-laws’ theme because the author decided at the outset that he would apply the acrostic technique – start each section with successive letters of the Hebrew alphabet (so, 24 sections) and allow 8 lines in each section, each of which would also begin with the section’s letter. 176 carefully crafted lines: quite a tour de force. I don’t know of any English translation that attempts to carry this scheme over; I rather think it would be taxing the translator’s skills to come up with eight lines that begin with the letter ‘Q’ or ‘Z’, never mind trying to make sense of it, too. (Now there's a challenge for Shipmates with more time on their hands!).
In addition to the repetition of the word ‘Blessed’, 119 repeats the idea of walking the way – following the law. I felt a bit for the author when I saw how many synonyms he tried to find for the word ‘law.’ He seems to have flung a dragnet out to catch as many as possible so as to avoid boring his audience too much (English translations vary):
torah (תורה = ‘law’);
mishpatim (משׁפטים = ‘rulings/regulations’);
dabar (דבר = ‘word’);
hoqim (חקים = ‘decrees/ordinances/statutes’);
mitzvah (םצוה = ‘commands’);
eduth (עדות = ‘statutes/testimony’);
amrah (אמרה = ‘sayings’); and
piqudim (פּקדים = ‘precepts’)
Eight words to sum up the main idea. It may be that the number eight decided his choice of the number of lines in each section.
Where 119 expands over 1, it allows for prayerful reflection and entreaty by those who recite it. It follows a general pattern of statement plus personal response; e.g., “Blessed are those whose ways are blameless....Oh, that my ways were steadfast...”(verses 1 & 5). Useful. I don't know how this Psalm is used in liturgy (if it is), but I can see that it could be used both corporately and privately.
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TubaMirum
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Psalm 119, interestingly, is used during the "Little Hours" of the Divine Office: Terce, Prime, Sext, None.
I guess it's not so unusual, though. Lauds/Matins and Vespers are the two major Hours, and (almost always) have five full Psalms assigned to them; 119 you obviously have to break into pieces, so it's normal that it got put with the other Hours. And actually, that makes sense in another way, too: reminders to "keep the statutes" would be most helpful during mid-day, when work and interaction with others is happening. Morning Prayer is "opening the day with praise, and Evening Prayer is "winding up with reflection."
Have we posted the Benedictine Psalm schedule on this thread yet? I'll go find it and post a link, because it's interesting to see how the liturgy goes in terms of Psalms, too....
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CuppaT
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Yes, that's what I was thinking over when I was folding laundry, how that Psalm One has the line "but his delight is in the law of the Lord, and in his law doth he meditate day and night." That is indeed like Psalm 118/119 with its constant refrain of loving the law, the word, the commands, and seeking to understand and keep his precepts.
In the Orthodox tradition, this psalm is chanted in part at funeral services. It is also chanted during the Lamentations of Holy Friday when we lament with the women and the disciples over Jesus' death, each verse interspersed with a lament. It also has its place in a regular daily or weekly or bi-weekly cycle of the psalms.
This is one of those spots where I break with good St. Benedict's suggestions. I prefer to keep the whole psalm together intact. To me it has a beauty and a flow that escalates toward the end, crashing into the final verse with humility. I loved discovering another seven(David is so full of lists of seven) -- seven times he exclaims Blessed art thou, O Lord, teach me thy statutes. There are plenty of shorter psalms that I do not know as well, but this one I have so nearly memorized that it is one of my car psalms. I need merely glance at it if I loose my place while I am praying it as I drive. There was a time in my life a few years ago when everything around me fell apart. It literally hurt to breathe. Having the habit prayer already in place, and praying the psalms in particular forced a regularity that I could not have mustered otherwise. Psalm 118 with its constant begging to understand and its emphasis on doing what is right was especially my prayer of that time. Eventually, I choose v. 111 as my favorite verse. I did not get to choose my upbringing, which was not all one would desire if one could choose such things, but I have made a decision long ago and taken as a new heritage all of God's testimonies, and they are the rejoicing of my heart.
CuppaT
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Stand at the brink of the abyss of despair, and when you see that you cannot bear it any longer, draw back a little and have a cup of tea.
~Elder Sophrony
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Nigel M
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quote:
Originally posted by CuppaT:
In the Orthodox tradition, this psalm is chanted in part at funeral services. It is also chanted during the Lamentations of Holy Friday when we lament with the women and the disciples over Jesus' death, each verse interspersed with a lament.
That's a connection that would never have occurred to me to make: Psalm 118/119 and lament/funerals. Any idea why it is used that way? Is there a particular message that is being proclaimed in association with death and that ties in with this Psalm, do you know?
quote:
Originally posted by CuppaT:
Having the habit prayer already in place, and praying the psalms in particular forced a regularity that I could not have mustered otherwise.
It's true, isn't it? Having Scripture embedded, as it were, definitely scores over merely having access to it in a book.
quote:
Originally posted by TubaMirum:
Have we posted the Benedictine Psalm schedule on this thread yet?
I don't think we have, TM. If you can access a copy on-line it would be very interesting to see it. It would be especially interesting to see whether the association made by the Orthodox Church (funerals/laments) has also been made in the West.
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TubaMirum
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JSBach, here is the 2nd installment of my EFM Psalms recap. Below are listed the particular Psalms covered by the materials; they were grouped according to the themes mentioned:
quote:
- Psalm 1 we already covered above.
- Psalms 8, 104, and 19: These are “hymns of praise”
- Psalms 14 and 53: These two are almost identical, except in the use of “Elohim” vs. YHWH, respectively, in the Hebrew (which normally indicates that they come from different sources). These are laments over the wickedness of humankind and they look forward to the day that God will bring deliverance.
- Psalms 15, 24, 42, 43, and 122: Psalm 122 is one of the “Songs of Ascents” (more about that later); the others are thought to be for use in preparation for Temple worship.
- Psalm 22: Was included in particular to note its use among Christians during Holy Week, and for the fact that it contains Jesus’ words from the Cross.
- Psalm 34: This is a hymn of Thanksgiving, and an acrostic (other acrostics are Psalms 9-10, 25, 34, 37, 111, 112, 119, 145).
- Psalm 119: This is the Longest Psalm; it is a long meditation on the Law and the joy that comes from keeping the statutes of the Law.
- Psalm 58: This is a cursing Psalm, calling for God’s judgement on the Psalmist’s enemies, who are declared to be breakers of the Law.
- Psalms 78, 105, 106: These are recitals of God’s saving deeds in Israel’s history. Psalms 105 and 106 are different in tone, though; one praises Israel, one accuses Israel.
- Psalm 137: The really bad Psalm, which contains a “blind hate and rage that the Psalmist is no longer able to master.” Much-discussed in several threads here.
- Psalms 146-150: “Hallelujah” Psalms. “Hallelujah” means “Praise YHWH.” These are songs of praise for and of all creation.
Some Psalms seem to have a liturgical use:
- Psalm 92 is labeled “A Song for the Sabbath.”
- Psalm 100 is labeled “A Psalm for the Thank Offering.”
- Psalm 38 (and others) are “designated for use at ‘memorial offerings’.”
- A few Psalms have tune names associated with them, and some have instructions to the "Choirmaster."
It is theorized that Israel ritually renewed its covenant with YHWH fairly often, perhaps even annually.
- “Psalm 81 suggests that the covenant is remembered on a regularly appointed feast day.”
- “Psalm 105...may also be a covenant renewal Psalm.”
“Royal theology”: These are Psalms that glorify Zion and which speak in kingly terms of God and God’s anointed (or Son).
- Psalms 93 and 95-100 are called “coronation Psalms”
- Psalms 46, 48, 76, 84, 87, 112 are “Songs of Zion.”
- Psalms 2, 20, 21, 45, 72, 110 glorify the Davidic king as God’s anointed.
Psalm 110 contains imagery used by early Christians to speak of Jesus.
I have one more post on this, on the very interesting topic of "Songs of Ascents."
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TubaMirum
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And here's the stuff on the "Songs of Ascents":
quote:
The “Songs of Ascents” are Psalms 120-134. There are many theories about this designation. Possibly these were “sung by pilgrims on their way to Jerusalem to worship at the Temple.”
Isn't that an amazing and wonderful picture?
The materials further say that a theory developed among Jewish scholars during the early years of the Christian church was that “the Levites sang one of the 15 Songs of Ascents on each of the fifteen steps leading up to the place in the Temple where the worshipers stood.”
Which makes an even more amazing picture!
Another theory is that the word “ascents” refers “to a literary practice: the last word of one verse would be used as the first word of the following verse, thereby forming a ‘staircase’ of words running through the Psalm.” (See Psalm 121 for an example of this.)
Most scholars believe these Psalms had something to do with the approach of worshipers to the Temple, at any rate.
So that's what I have, JSBach. I love this last stuff best, but it's all quite interesting. I'd like to get one of the books they recommend, too, to look at all this in more detail.
(Nigel, FYI: I haven't found the Benedictine Psalm table I was thinking of, but I'm still looking.)
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CuppaT
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Posted
Oh, well, here's my old sheet if you want it. I wrote it by looking at St. Benedict's Rule chapter 8, IIRC. The format did not come out too well, so I had to clean it up a bit. I really had not looked at it in years. And I do things slightly differently according to what we pray in church regularly.
Basically, every morning includes Psalms 3, 50, and 94 (all numbers being LXX). Every evening includes Psalms 4 and 90, and then the following.
PSALMS
Sunday
Morning 117, 62, 20-31
Noon 118
Night 109-112
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Monday
Morning 5, 35, 32-44
Noon 1, 2, 6
Night 113-116
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Tuesday
Morning 43, 56, 45-58
Noon 7, 8, 9
Night 119-133
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Wednesday
Morning 63, 64, 59-72
Noon 10, 11, 12
Night 134-136
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Thursday
Morning 87, Deut. 15, 73-84
Noon 13, 14, 15
Night 137-139
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Friday
Morning 75, 91, 85-99
Noon 16, 17
Night 140-144
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Saturday
Morning 142, Deut. 32, 100-107
Noon 18, 19
Night 145-147, 148-150
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Stand at the brink of the abyss of despair, and when you see that you cannot bear it any longer, draw back a little and have a cup of tea.
~Elder Sophrony
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CuppaT
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Posted
I remembered in the night that I forgot the psalms of assent of which TubaMirum wrote so beautifully above. I guess they are best put on Sunday noon, though I pray them any time I am on my way to church alone in the car. Remember, St. Benedict ends his chapter by saying that this is a rule to guide; it can be revised slightly as needed.
Revised:
Sunday
Morning 117, 62, 20-31
Noon 118, 119-133
Night 109-112
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Stand at the brink of the abyss of despair, and when you see that you cannot bear it any longer, draw back a little and have a cup of tea.
~Elder Sophrony
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J.S. Bach
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by TubaMirum:
So that's what I have, JSBach. I love this last stuff best, but it's all quite interesting. I'd like to get one of the books they recommend, too, to look at all this in more detail.
TubaMirum, special thanks to you for sharing some outstanding material! A previous group I was in studied the Psalms of Ascent, and I could see spending a few weeks on them again. The other EFM groupings seem to hit the major categories while providing a manageable selection to study.
The EFM course must be quite rewarding. Our church used to offer seminary courses (for graduate credit or audit), but they went by the wayside a few years ago. Thank you again!
Blessings,
JSB
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TubaMirum
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Posted
(Yours is a lot simpler, though, CuppaT. Thanks for posting it.
And I hope the info will be helpful, JSB - and that your study group will be great. I'm looking forward to Year 2 of EFM: New Testament. And thank God about a tenth of the reading! ![[Biased]](wink.gif) )
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J.S. Bach
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Our group study of psalms is going well. Thanks again for all your suggestions.
This week, I learned of Robert Alter's new The Book of Psalms: A Translation with Commentary.
It has only been out less than 2 weeks, so there haven't been that many reviews yet. A Boston Globe article states, "Alter aims to reproduce the rhythmic energy of the Hebrew texts in an English that adheres as closely as possible to the meaning and style of the original."
It sounds like it is worth investigating. A trip to the bookstore is in order.
Blessings,
JSB
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TubaMirum
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by J.S. Bach:
Our group study of psalms is going well. Thanks again for all your suggestions.
This week, I learned of Robert Alter's new The Book of Psalms: A Translation with Commentary.
It has only been out less than 2 weeks, so there haven't been that many reviews yet. A Boston Globe article states, "Alter aims to reproduce the rhythmic energy of the Hebrew texts in an English that adheres as closely as possible to the meaning and style of the original."
It sounds like it is worth investigating. A trip to the bookstore is in order.
Blessings,
JSB
Thanks for posting, JS Bach. I'll be interested to hear more about your study group as it goes along, and what you guys are discovering. Thanks also for the link; Alter translated, and wrote a commentary on, the Pentateuch awhile back, an effort well-regarded by many.
I haven't read that book, but a friend of mine likes it very much, so now I'll have to get both!
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J.S. Bach
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Posted
A detailed review of Alter's "The Book of Psalms" is now on The New Yorker website. I've only skimmed it, so I don't know the reviewer's conclusion yet.
After perusing the book, I couldn't resist buying it. The psalms I sampled speak with a fresh power. Alter's translations seem compact but strongly poetic at the same time. It will be a nice addition to our study group's set of translations. Over time, it will be interesting to see how much we like/don't like his choices (for example, he doesn't use "soul" or "sin").
Blessings,
JSB
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Nigel M
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Posted
Thanks to J. S. Bach for drawing our attention to Alter's book on the Psalms. I don't have it either, but given Alter's background of work on Hebrew poetry it certainly sounds a worthwhile investment. Not sure how he translates Psalm 3, but here's a stab to move things on (English versification - the Hebrew takes the heading as verse 1):-
quote:
Psalm 3 - A psalm of David. When he fled from his son Absalom.
1 Lord!
How numerous are my enemies!
How many rise up against me!
2 Many are saying of me,
"There's no saving for him from God!"
Selah
3 But you, Lord, are a shield protecting me;
my glory and and lifter of my head.
4 To the Lord I cry out,
and he answers me from his holy hill.
Selah
5 Me? I lie down, I sleep,
I wake up - for the Lord supports me!
6 I'm not going to be afraid of the masses
coming at me on all sides.
7 Rise up, Lord!
Save me, my God!
You strike all my enemies on the jaw;
and break the teeth of the wicked.
8 The Lord saves!
On your people be your blessings!
Selah
I like the movement on the 'save (or deliver / victory)' theme: the enemies scoff that God won't save (v2); the author calls on God to save (v7); the Psalm ends with the affirmation that God, indeed, saves.
On a day in England when a survey suggests that many National Health Service dental patients are being forced to go private or go without treatment, there's a timely picture here of the teeth of God's enemies being scattered all over the countryside.
I see from CuppaT's list that this Psalm has been allocated for use in the mornings. A motivational psalm, indeed.
Nigel
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Pooks
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Nigel M:
On a day in England when a survey suggests that many National Health Service dental patients are being forced to go private or go without treatment, there's a timely picture here of the teeth of God's enemies being scattered all over the countryside.
Oh, God! ![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif)
(Where did my false teeth go?) ![[Paranoid]](graemlins/paranoid.gif)
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Nigel M
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by pooka:
quote:
Originally posted by Nigel M:
On a day in England when a survey suggests that many National Health Service dental patients are being forced to go private or go without treatment, there's a timely picture here of the teeth of God's enemies being scattered all over the countryside.
Oh, God!
(Where did my false teeth go?)
Taking thing forward a bit - the greater the sinner, the less teeth he has? Let the one with the perfect teeth cast the first stone?
[ 18. October 2007, 11:22: Message edited by: Nigel M ]
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Nigel M
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...and a bit further forward, though in a 'back to the path' sort of direction...
This business of God smiting the wicked. We've had discussions about this before on other threads (e.g. the Cursing Psalms thread), but it is a theme that persists throughout the Psalms. Psalm 1 blows away the wicked; Ps 2 destroys them in anger; and here God delivers a fiver. It's there - it's theology, even allowing for pictorial language.
How do we pray this?
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tclune
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Nigel M:
...Not sure how [Alter] translates Psalm 3, but here's a stab to move things on (English versification - the Hebrew takes the heading as verse 1):-
Psalm 3 - A psalm of David. When he fled from his son Absalom.
...
3 But you, Lord, are a shield protecting me;
my glory and and lifter of my head.
...
Just a tangential question -- the image in 3:3 of God as "lifter of my head" is an odd one to my ears. It certainly calls to mind the Genesis story of Joseph and the interpretation of dreams for Pharoah's attendants , but I can't quite get a handle on what the image is intended to convey. Is the use with the baker intended as a joke, or can the phrase cover both positive and negative recognition by higher-ups?
--Tom Clune
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Nigel M
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by tclune:
...the image in 3:3 of God as "lifter of my head" is an odd one to my ears. It certainly calls to mind the Genesis story of Joseph and the interpretation of dreams for Pharoah's attendants, but I can't quite get a handle on what the image is intended to convey. Is the use with the baker intended as a joke, or can the phrase cover both positive and negative recognition by higher-ups?
Tom, this phrase stuck out at me, too, when looking at the Psalm. It occurs at various points throughout the OT. Some other examples include:-
quote:
Judges 8:28 -
Thus Midian was subdued before the Israelites and did not raise its head again.
Job 10:15 -
If I am guilty—woe to me!
Even if I am innocent, I cannot lift my head,
for I am full of shame
and drowned in my affliction.
Psalm 24:7 -
Lift up your heads, O you gates!
be lifted up, you ancient doors,
that the King of glory may come in!
Psalm 83:2 -
See how your enemies are astir,
how your foes raise their heads.
Psalm 110:7 -
He will drink from a brook beside the way;
therefore he will lift up his head.
Zech. 1:20 -
"These are the horns that scattered Judah so that no one could raise his head..."
Also -
quote:
Job 11:15 'face', rather than 'head' -
then you will lift up your face without shame;
you will stand firm and without fear.
There is a mix here, it seems. Sometimes it has a literal feel, e.g. where shame or physical weakness causes the head literally to hang down. Then there is the sense associated with confrontation: people attack others (or rebel against masters?) - metaphorically raising their heads. The Ps 24 reference is metaphorical (gates raising heads), but is it in the sense of casting off shame, or getting bigger to allow the King to pass under? the rest of that Psalm doesn't refer to shame, so maybe size matters here.
In the light of these, those Genesis references in chapter 40 to the cup-bearer could be about removing shame (absolving of guilt, perhaps?). the writer then seems to play on the idiom in respect of the baker: "Pharaoh will lift your head - from you!" I can't think of any other place in the OT where decapitation is described in this way, which makes me think it is intended as a joke here.
I'm sure the baker laughed his head off.
Nigel
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J.S. Bach
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# 9633
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Nigel M:
Thanks to J. S. Bach for drawing our attention to Alter's book on the Psalms. I don't have it either, but given Alter's background of work on Hebrew poetry it certainly sounds a worthwhile investment. Not sure how he translates Psalm 3, but here's a stab to move things on (English versification - the Hebrew takes the heading as verse 1):-
I'm impressed with your translation, Nigel M.
Here is the first part of Alter's translation of Psalm 3 (the book uses Hebrew versification; unfortunately, I can't preserve Alter's indentations, but I will preserve the line breaks):
1 A David psalm, when he fled from Absalom his son.
2 Lord, how many are my foes,
many, who rise up against me.
3 Many, who say of my life:
"No rescue for him through God." selah
4 And you, Lord, a shield are for me,
my glory, Who lifts up my head.
5 With my voice I cry out to the Lord,
and He answers me from His holy mountain. selah
Blessings,
JSB
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Nigel M
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Posted
I gather that in some traditions the night prayer (Compline) for 30 November includes a reading of Psalm 4.
quote:
Psalm 4 [NIV]
For the director of music. With stringed instruments. A psalm of David.
1 Answer me when I call to you,
O my righteous God.
Give me relief from my distress;
be merciful to me and hear my prayer.
2 How long, O men, will you turn my glory into shame ?
How long will you love delusions and seek false gods ?
Selah
3 Know that the LORD has set apart the godly for himself;
the LORD will hear when I call to him.
4 In your anger do not sin;
when you are on your beds,
search your hearts and be silent.
Selah
5 Offer right sacrifices
and trust in the LORD.
6 Many are asking, "Who can show us any good?"
Let the light of your face shine upon us, O LORD.
7 You have filled my heart with greater joy
than when their grain and new wine abound.
8 I will lie down and sleep in peace,
for you alone, O LORD,
make me dwell in safety.
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CuppaT
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# 10523
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Posted
Ah, I see that you have moved on. I never did figure out how to say what I was going to on Psalm 3. Just as well. I knew what, just not how. Best to keep silent sometimes. So many of these Psalms that we pray every day are simply a heart's cry. I take the words for what they are and pray them. It is just me. I am simple-minded.
But I checked this thread because I came upon one of my favorite phrases this morning and wanted to ask you all if you knew of any others like it anywhere. It is not the sort of thing one can look up. It is a double word use, done twice in the Psalms that I can think of, once on Wednesdays on Psalm 67/68 and once at the vesperal 141/142. 67:18 says Thou hast led captivity captive. I love the kind of picture that it draws up -- captivity itself being personified and led away as a prisoner forever. Beautiful imagery. And 141:4 says (in the KJV) refuge failed me, but I have heard a very long time ago that in the original (whether LXX or Hebrew I do not know) it is more like "fleeing fled". Again, difficult to wrap your mind around, but it is interesting imagery. Are there more of these in the Scriptures that anyone can pull out of their minds? You all are more studied than I. It really is not the sort of thing one can find by looking up, I don't suppose. It is just one of the little treasures you come across sometimes.
CuppaT
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Stand at the brink of the abyss of despair, and when you see that you cannot bear it any longer, draw back a little and have a cup of tea.
~Elder Sophrony
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Nigel M
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# 11256
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by CuppaT:
Ah, I see that you have moved on. I never did figure out how to say what I was going to on Psalm 3.
I'm sure TubaMirum wouldn't mind if you wanted to go back over anything later. We don't have to proceed through in psalm order; I just wanted to ensure the thread stayed live, so posted again!
quote:
Originally posted by CuppaT:
...I came upon one of my favorite phrases this morning and wanted to ask you all if you knew of any others like it anywhere. It is not the sort of thing one can look up. It is a double word use...
The Hebrew language has a technique for emphasising something: a verb can be repeated in two different forms, next to each other (sometimes called the intensifying infinitive absolute). We don't have this technique in English (or, I believe, in Greek) grammar, so translators have to signal it differently to get the meaning across, or else they adopt a less than natural literal translation. Examples in the OT include:
Gen. 2:17 - "But you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die" ('die you shall die').
Gen 3:4 - "You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman (similar to above, but with the negative).
Gen 18:10 - Then the LORD said, "I will most certainly return to you..." ('return I will return').
Deut. 8:19 - "...I testify against you today that you will surely be destroyed" ('destroy you will be destroyed').
2 Sam. 9:7 - "...David said to him, "for I will surely show you kindness..." ('show I will show').
...and so on...
This type of emphasis doesn't actually appear in the Psalm 141/142 passage, but then poetic texts tend to show emphasis in other ways, e.g. by reducing the line to the bare minimum of words.
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CuppaT
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# 10523
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Posted
hmmm. Thanks, Nigel. I like languages.
CuppaT
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Stand at the brink of the abyss of despair, and when you see that you cannot bear it any longer, draw back a little and have a cup of tea.
~Elder Sophrony
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Nigel M
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# 11256
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Posted
Psalm 5 [NIV]
quote:
1 Give ear to my words, O LORD, consider my sighing.
2 Listen to my cry for help, my King and my God, for to you I pray.
3 In the morning, O LORD, you hear my voice; in the morning I lay my requests before you and wait in expectation.
4 You are not a God who takes pleasure in evil; with you the wicked cannot dwell.
5 The arrogant cannot stand in your presence; you hate all who do wrong.
6 You destroy those who tell lies; bloodthirsty and deceitful men the LORD abhors.
7 But I, by your great mercy, will come into your house; in reverence will I bow down towards your holy temple.
8 Lead me, O LORD, in your righteousness because of my enemies— make straight your way before me.
9 Not a word from their mouth can be trusted; their heart is filled with destruction. Their throat is an open grave; with their tongue they speak deceit.
10 Declare them guilty, O God! Let their intrigues be their downfall. Banish them for their many sins, for they have rebelled against you.
11 But let all who take refuge in you be glad; let them ever sing for joy. Spread your protection over them, that those who love your name may rejoice in you.
12 For surely, O LORD, you bless the righteous; you surround them with your favour as with a shield.
Can be taken to be a useful morning Psalm to pray and kick off the day. It does, however, have the usual blast to the wicked that causes many a Christian to flinch! The standard approach is to blame it on the devil; but once again the question must arise: is there a way that a Christian can honestly pray this Psalm while remaining true to its roots and to that of the New Testament? Is there a middle way between ignoring the unpleasant bits and spiritualising them away? Are we forever stuck between Marcion and Origen?
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Anselm
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Nigel M:
Is there a middle way between ignoring the unpleasant bits and spiritualizing them away? Are we forever stuck between Marcion and Origen?
I am not sure what you see as an Origen-ic spiritualizing away of the text, but it seems to me that the New Testament writers take the "enemies-of-God's-people" to a new level. For example quote:
Eph 6:10-12
10Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. 11Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. 12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.
It seems that Revelation takes a similar direction.
The other place where a psalm-like invective is used in the NT is against those who are seen as deliberately false teachers.
For example here and here.
However, having said all this I don't think that Ps 5 is too bad in its invective against "the wicked"™ - it just seems to say that God will judge them.
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carpe diem domini
...seize the day to play dominoes?
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Nigel M
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Anselm:
I am not sure what you see as an Origen-ic spiritualizing away of the text...
Hi Anslem,
It was the "This is a picture of [enter favourite NT spiritual match, e.g., Christ and the Church...]" approach that I was thinking of there. It would be interesting to investigate where the line should be drawn on this approach to the OT. I would want to take the whole OT on its own terms before seeing if it was necessary to apply any figurative layer on top; I guess that is because I tend to see it as some kind of defeat if I have to! In other words, I can't stomach some part of the OT so I duck out by spiritualising it away.
I agree that there is a 'NT' view that can be taken - the recognition that there are spiritual forces over (or behind) the material. Certainly it's worth keeping that in mind when reading or praying the likes of Psalm 5. I think my concern is that we lose sight of the material in the fight against the spiritual. Is it 'un-Christian' to pray both?
A question which links with...
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
Prayer should be honest, including praying the psalms.
Yes - I think a nail is smacked on the nut here: for me, I wonder if I am being really honest if I pray Ps. 5 in a way that ignores or 'fixes' the phrases that condemn wicked people.
This may be a western cultural thing, but few Christians that I have met are at ease with passages that direct condemnation at people. If Psalm 5 was directed at "wickedness", rather than "the wicked", I'm sure it would be prayed more often without a feeling of guilt or unease. However, as it stands, it sounds as though I am praying for rebels against God's Kingdom (= sinners) to be excluded (banished) from God's presence forever.
And this, too, has its counterpart in the NT - again focused on people as much as the acts / motivations.
So - if I am honest - I should conclude that the Bible adopts a rigorous stance against individuals who rebel against God. Indeed, I should pray for their downfall.
As an associated anecdote to this; during part of the '80s I was a member of a Christian community in Northern Ireland, where prayer for reconciliation, forgiveness and renewal was a core element of activity. It was a constant question on our minds: how far do we go in praying for men of violence to cease their activities? Do we leave it at a general petition for peace? Do we pray that God would intervene in people's minds and hearts? Do we pray that security forces would "arrest" those involved in violence? Or should we pray that violent people should be rejected by God?
Nigel
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CuppaT
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# 10523
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Posted
If someone is able to link me to Origen’s commentary on Psalm 5, I for one, would be interested. Apparently, he wrote a commentary on the first 25 Psalms. Both Marcion and Origen were heretics, but such things are on a sliding scale, so to speak, if I may be so bold, and Marcion was way off, but many of Origen’s writings are included next to writings of the great saints because some of the things he had to say are worth reading. I already spent a great deal of time on Ethereal Library to no avail, but maybe someone else knows their way around books better than I.
Before we really get back to Psalm 5 I think we need address some of the issues on the table.
Yes, I think we can indeed pray the Psalms honestly and with a good heart.
quote:
Originally posted by Nigel M:
quote:
Originally posted by Anselm:
I am not sure what you see as an Origen-ic spiritualizing away of the text...
Hi Anslem,
It was the "This is a picture of [enter favourite NT spiritual match, e.g., Christ and the Church...]" approach that I was thinking of there. It would be interesting to investigate where the line should be drawn on this approach to the OT. I would want to take the whole OT on its own terms before seeing if it was necessary to apply any figurative layer on top; I guess that is because I tend to see it as some kind of defeat if I have to! In other words, I can't stomach some part of the OT so I duck out by spiritualising it away.
But there is no need! You are not spiritualizing anything away, but rather coming at it with a Christian perspective. Yes, the people in of Israel, and all the people of the Old Testament did not always understand the point, and what was going on. King David himself may not have understood that some of the things he was writing were prophesies. But WE do.
quote:
I agree that there is a 'NT' view that can be taken -
Ah, that's it! The incarnation of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ makes all the difference in the world. He is the fulcrum point.
quote:
the recognition that there are spiritual forces over (or behind) the material. Certainly it's worth keeping that in mind when reading or praying the likes of Psalm 5. I think my concern is that we lose sight of the material in the fight against the spiritual. Is it 'un-Christian' to pray both?
It is not un-Christian to pray for the downfall of evil, both the spiritual and the material, but you have to know why, and you should be praying with a pure heart when you pray for the wicked. But don't think that it is the lesser of the two to pray against the spiritual forces, becuase you would be fooling yourself. I suspect a great deal of spiritual maturity has to do with learning to be more wary of the spiritual battles that are being waged all around us at every moment.
quote:
A question which links with...
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
Prayer should be honest, including praying the psalms.
Yes - I think a nail is smacked on the nut here: for me, I wonder if I am being really honest if I pray Ps. 5 in a way that ignores or 'fixes' the phrases that condemn wicked people.
This may be a western cultural thing, but few Christians that I have met are at ease with passages that direct condemnation at people. If Psalm 5 was directed at "wickedness", rather than "the wicked", I'm sure it would be prayed more often without a feeling of guilt or unease. However, as it stands, it sounds as though I am praying for rebels against God's Kingdom (= sinners) to be excluded (banished) from God's presence forever.
And this, too, has its counterpart in the NT - again focused on people as much as the acts / motivations.
So - if I am honest - I should conclude that the Bible adopts a rigorous stance against individuals who rebel against God.
God certainly does adopt a rigorous stance against those who rebel against him.
quote:
Indeed, I should pray for their downfall.
Absolutely. But why? To what end?
quote:
As an associated anecdote to this; during part of the '80s I was a member of a Christian community in Northern Ireland, where prayer for reconciliation, forgiveness and renewal was a core element of activity. It was a constant question on our minds: how far do we go in praying for men of violence to cease their activities? Do we leave it at a general petition for peace? Do we pray that God would intervene in people's minds and hearts? Do we pray that security forces would "arrest" those involved in violence? Or should we pray that violent people should be rejected by God? Nigel
Let's look at Psalm 80/81 for a moment. Verses 8 to the end - God longs to give his people every good thing, and yet they would not listen, he would have taken care of them in every way, but instead they followed their own hearts lusts, so God throws up his hands, in essence, and says have it your way, and they walked in their own counsels.
Then across the page in Psalm 82/83 after many condemnations, this Psalm gives a reason: That they may know that Thou, whose name alone is Jehovah, art most high over all the earth.
Why do we pray against the wicked? That they may turn around! So absolutely pray against the forces of evil that assault us. Pray also that God would stop the horribly wicked and evil men that we see. But finish your prayer -- that those that rebel against God may repent of their wickedness and rise up and become saints in his kingdom!
Think of the many teachings of our Lord, how he longed to gather them under his wings as a hen gathers her chicks, how broadly he scattered the seeds of his teachings despite the fact that only some of the seeds fell on good soil, etc. His love is boundless, and his arms outstreched.
CuppaT
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Stand at the brink of the abyss of despair, and when you see that you cannot bear it any longer, draw back a little and have a cup of tea.
~Elder Sophrony
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Nigel M
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by CuppaT:
If someone is able to link me to Origen’s commentary on Psalm 5, I for one, would be interested. Apparently, he wrote a commentary on the first 25 Psalms.
I couldn't find any of his commentaries on the Psalms online, CuppaT, but there are bits and pieces from his works on the gospels where he quotes passages from the Psalms to support his interpretation. For example, he uses Psalm 41:9 (“Even my close friend, whom I trusted, he who shared my bread, has lifted up his heel against me”) as support for believing that Judas Iscariot has once genuinely believed before he betrayed Jesus. While it is possible to use the OT passages in this way – and indeed there is a substantial heritage within Christianity that interprets the OT just like that – my reading of Psalm 5 sparked off the concern that readers might be encouraged to miss the message that lies embedded.
I know this probably sounds like an inversion of the approach taken in parts of the early church: there interpreters felt that the 'surface' or material sense of a passage was deficient in some way and that there was a deeper, spiritual sense to be acquired. I feeling is that things might have gone too far and that for many Christians the only approach to interpretation is to seek a spiritual meaning – and that this has become the 'surface' level reading. Little or no attempt is made to dig deeper into the text for a canonical reading that includes the meaning 'meant' by the author at the time of writing. The challenge, it seems to me, is to find an approach that is both honest to the OT in its setting and at the same time honest to the NT in its fulfilling. Simple, eh?!
quote:
Originally posted by CuppaT:
Why do we pray against the wicked? That they may turn around! So absolutely pray against the forces of evil that assault us. Pray also that God would stop the horribly wicked and evil men that we see. But finish your prayer -- that those that rebel against God may repent of their wickedness and rise up and become saints in his kingdom!
No problem with that at all, CuppaT; I think that is the right general approach to take in prayer. What do we do, though, in those situations where specific people act in ways we would consider evil, or wicked, and are acting now in those ways? Where they have not shown any inkling to repent? Where the offer of forgiveness is rebuffed? A NT example, perhaps, is where Paul advised a church to expel someone from the fellowship, or where he takes a church to task for harbouring people who were excluded from God's Kingdom. I wonder if a point is reached when it becomes clear that there can be no forgiveness without repentance and where repentance is not forthcoming, then forgiveness can no longer be offered? These tricky questions have been tackled before, I know; it's the role of interpretation in all this that intrigues me.
I know that a proper response from Christians in situations like that would be to at least keep open the hope of reconciliation, even though there is no immediate evidence of a turning around on the part of aggressor. Accepting that there has to be truth before reconciliation (the South African model for the post-Apartheid era) is a Christian response. The corollary of that, though, would have to be that there will need to be punishment in the absence of truth – and that also seems to be a biblical theme. A hard theme, for Christians! Is that where Psalm 5 kicks in?
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CuppaT
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# 10523
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Posted
quote:
I know this probably sounds like an inversion of the approach taken in parts of the early church: there interpreters felt that the 'surface' or material sense of a passage was deficient in some way and that there was a deeper, spiritual sense to be acquired. I feeling is that things might have gone too far and that for many Christians the only approach to interpretation is to seek a spiritual meaning – and that this has become the 'surface' level reading. Little or no attempt is made to dig deeper into the text for a canonical reading that includes the meaning 'meant' by the author at the time of writing. The challenge, it seems to me, is to find an approach that is both honest to the OT in its setting and at the same time honest to the NT in its fulfilling. Simple, eh?!
Well, surface or deeper, it only makes sense that we should look at what the author meant first when he wrote it, I agree. That is usually the first key to understanding any story. In Holy Scriptures, however, we have the added blessing of layer upon layer of treasures to be unearthed. It would be a mistake, though, to listen to any fool and his own interpretation of things. The Church has stood through the centuries and written vast amounts of literature on all the books of the Bible; indeed it continues to do so. We listen especially to those who followed our Lord most closely in time, and those that followed immediately after them. God has made his people intelligent and rational creatures, and those things that are right and good and true stand the test of time, and they are honored by the faithful.
quote:
What do we do, though, in those situations where specific people act in ways we would consider evil, or wicked, and are acting now in those ways? Where they have not shown any inkling to repent? Where the offer of forgiveness is rebuffed? A NT example, perhaps, is where Paul advised a church to expel someone from the fellowship, or where he takes a church to task for harboring people who were excluded from God's Kingdom. I wonder if a point is reached when it becomes clear that there can be no forgiveness without repentance and where repentance is not forthcoming, then forgiveness can no longer be offered? These tricky questions have been tackled before, I know; it's the role of interpretation in all this that intrigues me.
I know that a proper response from Christians in situations like that would be to at least keep open the hope of reconciliation, even though there is no immediate evidence of a turning around on the part of aggressor.
Keeping in mind that I am Orthodox, I mean, I remember my Protestant days, but I was a child mostly then, and whether I was just not cognizant of it I do not know, I never saw church discipline in action, but I see it frequently now. I have seen priests quietly refuse to let someone come back into the congregation because of the discord that person would sow. I have seen whole families be referred elsewhere. I have seen a priest be refused to come back and give an apology to a congregation for a past action, partly because the congregation had changed in the interim and it would cause confusion and open an old scandal to newcomers. I have seen a man under confession be excommunicated, though welcomed in attendance, for a year, after which time he, with much counseling, I assume, joyfully began communing again. My own former Bishop, well beloved, was disgraced by his actions and made to step down from ever serving as Bishop again, given a desk job in essence, though he is still called Bishop in title, but he may not serve at the altar ever again. I’m sure any parish or your own church has its stories. A good priest or pastor can manipulate his congregation under the guidance of the Holy Spirit for the good of his flock. I have seen the necessity of it. I will also say that probably the greater number of congregants did not know what was happening or what ever happened to some problem people who just stopped coming. I get concerned about people and quietly ask.
Does there need to be punishment in absence of truth? Punishment, no. Punishment sounds vindictive and reasonless. But discipline is often called for. And sometimes that discipline is harsh. Sometimes pastors and priests must look and sound mean for peoples' own good; they have so hardened their hearts and stopped up their ears that kindly words and actions won’t get through to them. Truth hurts sometimes. Don’t we all know it from childhood on up?
Is this where Psalm 5 kicks in? “Thou shalt destroy them that speak lies; the Lord will abhor the bloody and deceitful man; destroy thou them, O God; let them fall by their own counsels; cast them out in the multitude of their transgressions, for they have rebelled against thee.” And David was a man after God’s own heart? Well, I am a woman. I am not quite the warrior type, though I can be fierce after a fashion, if I need to be. I do pray this Psalm wholeheartedly. I don’t think I have ever thought of praying it against People, even if I assume King David did at the time he wrote it. That’s fine with me. I fight my own Philistines and Hittites and Amorites and Ammonites and Og and Bashan.
CuppaT
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Stand at the brink of the abyss of despair, and when you see that you cannot bear it any longer, draw back a little and have a cup of tea.
~Elder Sophrony
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CuppaT
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Posted
A slight postscript. I should have said not praying against specific people. I think, like Wise King Soloman said, there is a time for everything, and in this case, a time for praying generally as opposed to praying specifically. God is the Righteous Judge and we leave the specifics to his divine wisdom.
CuppaT
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Stand at the brink of the abyss of despair, and when you see that you cannot bear it any longer, draw back a little and have a cup of tea.
~Elder Sophrony
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
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Posted
Ouch. what an interesting thread to come across, right now when my old enemies have resurfaced! I shy away from the very hardest of the psalms (Let his children be fatherless, etc.) but do pray these psalms with vigor with regards to certain people. The Lord may fault me for that, and I couldn't blame him. But since that's what my deepest heart is really saying, why not say it openly and then ask the Lord to do something about my attitude if it's offensive to him?
At the moment there are certainly some ... I-pods ... that I would love to see dashed against the rocks.
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
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CuppaT
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Posted
I know I have never been persecuted like you have been, LC, not in the same way certainly. I know what it is to be hated though, a couple times over, the details of which I won't mention. Not childhood stuff though, but adult things done by church people. I still can't say that I ever felt more than pity for them, because they were the ones bound up by hatred. In all those times of praying the Psalms through, though, I never brought them to mind specifically, nor did I even fight not to. I guess we really ought to let God have a go at determining who the evil ones and who the ungodly and who the wicked are, for we're really not the best judges of hearts after all. Or at least I'm not. I know in my own cases, my people were misunderstanding things and refusing to hear truth. They hardened their hearts and thus became poisoned with hatred. One is cured and we live in miraculous harmony, another, I don't know if that one ever will be this side of heaven, the self-deception is so ingrained.
CuppaT
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Stand at the brink of the abyss of despair, and when you see that you cannot bear it any longer, draw back a little and have a cup of tea.
~Elder Sophrony
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Anselm
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Nigel M:
It was the "This is a picture of [enter favourite NT spiritual match, e.g., Christ and the Church...]" approach that I was thinking of there. It would be interesting to investigate where the line should be drawn on this approach to the OT. I would want to take the whole OT on its own terms before seeing if it was necessary to apply any figurative layer on top; I guess that is because I tend to see it as some kind of defeat if I have to! In other words, I can't stomach some part of the OT so I duck out by spiritualising it away
Hi Nigel,
My problem with the example that you gave is not the typological ("spiritualising") approach, but that a lot of preachers I have heard are lazy in the parallels they draw - squashing the OT incident into a preconceived theology without allowing the OT passage to speak with its own nuances, without allowing the OT to inform and shape our NT theology.
Further, I think the problems is not so much the whole OT but rather fitting "Israel" into our biblical theology. Why didn't Adam and Eve simply give birth to Jesus; to be crucified by Cain for our sins. That would fit in better with our theologies, with our retellings of the gospel. Why the need for "Israel"?
In reflecting on this, I wonder whether "Israel" is a bit like a Petri Dish used in biology. It is a specimen of humanity that serves three functions - Israel is a scaled down model of both fallen humanity and the Kingdom of God
- Israel is an incubator for God's saviour
- Israel acts as a catalyst for God's salvation
Now because of 1. we are able to 'learn some lessons' from Israel's history, while also facing up to the reality of the history. It also helps to understand why there are elements to the "Israel" stage of salvation history that have past and are no longer applicable, as we have moved from 'model' to 'reality'. quote:
As an associated anecdote to this; during part of the '80s I was a member of a Christian community in Northern Ireland, where prayer for reconciliation, forgiveness and renewal was a core element of activity. It was a constant question on our minds: how far do we go in praying for men of violence to cease their activities? Do we leave it at a general petition for peace? Do we pray that God would intervene in people's minds and hearts? Do we pray that security forces would "arrest" those involved in violence? Or should we pray that violent people should be rejected by God?
I would say pray everything but the last suggestion. It would also be appropriate to pray that the evil schemes of violent people come to nothing, by whatever means. And that people at all levels, and in all parts, of society would have the courage to stand up for what is just and loving.
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carpe diem domini
...seize the day to play dominoes?
Posts: 2544 | From: The Scriptorium | Registered: May 2003
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Nigel M
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Anselm:
My problem with the example that you gave is not the typological ("spiritualising") approach, but that a lot of preachers I have heard are lazy in the parallels they draw - squashing the OT incident into a preconceived theology without allowing the OT passage to speak with its own nuances, without allowing the OT to inform and shape our NT theology.
I have to agree; there's a block of work that needs doing around this, isn't there? I sense that there is a two-stage approach here for teachers: firstly to understand the OT passage on its own terms; then secondly to see how the birth/life/death/resurrection/vindication of Jesus impacts on that understanding (via the NT).
This approach could allow the OT to throw light on NT passages just as much as the New can on the Old. It can also put God's work in a wider perspective and allows the reader to ask the same difficult questions the OT writers were asking about life, the universe and everything. The Old informs the New and the New completes the Old. As you say, there's much to be gained from looking at the reality of history. Our theology (theologies?) can be molded and developed as we do. Perhaps this is part of discipleship: opening up the whole bible so as to better understand God and his desire for our lives.
I like the Petri dish analogy!
Nigel
Posts: 2826 | From: London, UK | Registered: Apr 2006
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Nigel M
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# 11256
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Posted
Moved on to the next Psalm so that people can comment if they wish.
There's a heading in this Psalm that forms verse one in Hebrew as well as Greek and some English translations. The translations struggle with the terminology in the heading so I won't include it here, but if anyone wants to discuss it, by all means do raise the issue!
quote:
Psalm 6
O Lord!
Don't rebuke me when you're angry; don't discipline when you're furious!
Be merciful, Lord - I'm fading out; heal me, Lord – my bones are shaking!
I am completely terrified; and you, Lord, how long?
Come back, Lord! Take me away!
Save me! It's your covenant duty!
For no-one remembers you when they're dead; who in a grave will give you thanks?
I'm exhausted with crying.
Every night my bed's like a swimming pool; my tears drench it.
My eyes are worn out by my anger; tired out by my enemies.
Leave me alone, you rebels! The Lord has heard my weeping.
The Lord has heard my appeal; He has granted my application.
Let all my enemies be ashamed; let them be terrified!
Let them be sent away and unexpectedly humiliated!
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Nigel M
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Posted
Thought I'd bring this thread back up a bit! Paraphrase of Psalm 7 below. Different feel to Psalm 6, which seeks God's mercy. This Psalm seeks God's justice on the basis that God has made a bargain to protect the writer so long as the writer is loyal to God. The imagery of the law court crops up here: God as judge being implored to stand and give judgment (standing being the stance a judge takes in many jurisdictions when it comes time to deliver the judgment). The psalmist engages in a fair bit of rhetoric (not unusual): e.g., the fear that the judge is lapsing and has fallen asleep on the job, and the taunting detail of God preparing to fire his weapons on the guilty in execution of his judgment.
quote:
Lord, my God!
I have put my faith in you for protection. So protect me! Rescue me from those who chase me!
If you don't, they will rip me to shreds like a lion; tearing, with no rescue.
Lord, my God!
If I have done this: “my actions are unjust,
I have not protected those faithful to me”;
Then, of course, let my enemy chase and catch me,
Let him crush my life and leave me dishonoured in the dust.
Stand up in anger, Lord! Rise up in your furious rage!
Wake up for me and pass sentence!
The Council of nations is in your court;
Retake your proper position of authority over them!
The Lord judges the nations, so judge me Lord;
I am not guilty; I am blameless, Most High.
May the evil of the guilty fail, but may the innocent be successful,
You who examine hearts and minds, the Just God.
My loyalty is to God, he protects the truly faithful.
God is a just Judge, he pronounces judgments all the day long.
If someone does not admit their guilt, God prepares his weapons, ready to fire.
He sets his deadly sights on his enemy and puts his finger on the trigger.
Look at the person who plans evil! Like a pregnant woman he labours to give birth to evil;
He digs out a trap pit – and then falls into the same pit he dug!
His own mischief rebounds on him; his violence hits his own head.
I will thank Lord for his justice; I will sing about the name of the Most High Lord!
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Moo
Ship's tough old bird
# 107
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Posted
{BUMP}
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Kerygmania host
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See you later, alligator.
Posts: 20365 | From: Alleghany Mountains of Virginia | Registered: May 2001
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Nigel M
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Posted
Psalm 8
quote:
Yahweh! Our Lord!
How majestic is your name throughout the earth!
You've made your majesty clear above the skies.
From the mouths of children and babies you have ordained praise;
On account of your adversaries you forced Enemy and Rebel to stop.
When I see your skies, the work of your fingers,
the moon, the stars, that you set in place,
What's a human, that you would bother with them?
Dust-kids, that you would notice them?
Yet, you placed them a little lower than the divine council;
Honour and majesty you granted them.
You appointed them to rule over everything you made;
Everything was placed under their control -
Sheep, cattle, all together;
Wild animals, sky birds, the fish in the sea;
Everything swimming through the currents of the sea.
Yahweh! Our Lord!
How majestic is your name throughout the earth!
A great Psalm – so much could be said about it. Similar concepts, of course to the creation accounts and the role of humans in it all, regarding them in much greater worth than other accounts in the ancient near east. Still, the Psalm stops short of placing humans inside the divine council. An interesting tension – ruler of all he surveys, but not a decision maker with Yahweh.
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Caledonian
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Posted
I find the Psalms very hard to get into. Its a great pity because I think a 'perpetual psalter' would be a good thing. Maybe Thomas Merton has got at me!
Posts: 76 | From: Scotland | Registered: Feb 2010
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Nigel M
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Posted
In my time I've attended Churches of the Perpetual Chorus! Thomas Merton those choruses were not. Still, I found that there's an interesting link between the repetition and the ability to express worship (when not done mechanically). With the Psalms we are obviously hindered by the fact that they don't scan like English poetry, and it is a tricky task to try and translate them in a way that keeps faith to the Hebrew expression while allowing them to express themselves well in English.
I feel a challenge coming on. Take a Psalm (8, for example) and translate using a poetic style familiar to English speakers.
There once was a God-type boss,
Who couldn't really care a toss
About the tossers out there
Who couldn't compare
With the lowest of lowest peat moss.
Quick - I need three chords, a PowerPoint slide, a piano, and I'm away. One more time. and one more time.
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