Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Purgatory: Christian/Biblical Perspective on Oral Sex?
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Janine
The Endless Simmer
# 3337
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Posted
Probably some thread somewhere about this already. Some obliging Shipmate will point it out I hope.
May be too pointed a topic- even tho I want thought and debate, Purg hosts may want it gone- "Save it for T & T"...
But I want to know -
What about oral sex?
The rise in young people seemingly suddenly considering oral sex not sex, and thus alright to engage in?
If you strip away all possible "other" aspects, removing such concerns as unmarried or same-sex people engaging in it (those are other arguments)... What say you?
If you have a problem with it - what is your basis for the stance you take? Your Biblical basis?
If you're neutral - well, that's nice. Someone was just now wondering why Christians are even discussing this stuff and what do we care what goes on in private anyway? I said that we have concerns about it because we do it, or don't do it, just like eveyone else. Just because we're Christians doesn't mean we function on some sexless angelic plane somewhere...
And if you're all for it (in a context where God can gain glory I assume), how do you defend that position against the nay-sayers?
Or more specifically, against those nay-sayers who want to use law to enter your bedroom and bind you with their opinion...
{{Mmmm - bind you ...}}
Oh, never mind, that's another topic.
You might want to check out this article: Sex and the Bible: Why Did God Give Us This Gift?
More food for thought: quote: Song of Solomon, 4:16
Awake, O north wind,
And come, O south!
Blow upon my garden,
That its spices may flow out.
Let my beloved come to his garden
And eat its pleasant fruits
Okay, okay, you can see the Song of Songs as all allegory if you like. Whatever flips your Twinkie.
Or, if you do see it as applying to the real-life Solomon and Shulamite, as much or more than to Christ and the Church, perhaps you still have a need to filter all those lovely sensual tidbits through a protective matrix favoring already-married, missionary-position sex, just 'cause that's more holy, y'see.
I reference all that to give a base for us to jump from.
What about oral sex? [ 08. January 2006, 21:57: Message edited by: Erin ]
-------------------- I'm a Fundagelical Evangimentalist. What are you? Take Me Home * My Heart * An hour with Rich Mullins *
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that Wikkid Person
Shipmate
# 4446
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Posted
Ya, what about it. I have several times refused it in situations where sex was inappropriate, so would love to know if I did right in that regard, or was I just wasting perfectly good blowjobs?
-------------------- We have only one truth and one reality. Let's make the most of them.
Posts: 1007 | From: Almonte, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Apr 2003
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The Undiscovered Country
Shipmate
# 4811
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Posted
It seems to me that biblically just about any sexual activity within marriage is fine provided it just involves that man and woman. The Bible has plenty to say about the importance of keeping sex within marriage but has virtually nothing to say about what sexual activity should take place within it except to view sex as a god-given positive and wonderful gift.
-------------------- The reasonable man adapts himself to the world. The unreasonable man adapts the world to himself. Therefore all hope of progress rests with the unreasonable man.
Posts: 1216 | From: Belfast | Registered: Aug 2003
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Father Gregory
Orthodoxy
# 310
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Posted
What Jeff said.
The Bible says very little about sex itself, except in the Song of Songs and that is wholly positive and lusciously frank, (don't allegorise). It's just assumed .... as unexceptional in ordinary human terms as breathing or eating. However, many (but not all) Christian traditions never cease to go on and on about sex, revealing perhaps an underlying Manichaean tendency or control freakery on behalf of the theological snoopers.
For God's sake (literally!) haven't we got enough to deal with in this broken and violent world than what adult people do with their genitalia?!
-------------------- Yours in Christ Fr. Gregory Find Your Way Around the Plot TheOrthodoxPlot™
Posts: 15099 | From: Manchester, UK | Registered: May 2001
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Nicodemia
WYSIWYG
# 4756
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Posted
Thank God for Fr. Gregory and common sense, plain speaking and a fun-loving take on life!
Nic
Posts: 4544 | From: not too far from Manchester, UK | Registered: Jul 2003
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Emma Louise
Storm in a teapot
# 3571
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Posted
to answer the thread title ...
its great
Posts: 12719 | From: Enid Blyton territory. | Registered: Nov 2002
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Janine
The Endless Simmer
# 3337
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Posted
Friend said we Christians are sooo cute when we talk about sex, like kittens chaste even in our cavorting.
Sorry to give the topic merely a lick and a promise... off to work early today. Will come back to y'all this evening. Thanks for letting me dip into the topic with you. I hope I haven't bitten off more than I can chew.
-------------------- I'm a Fundagelical Evangimentalist. What are you? Take Me Home * My Heart * An hour with Rich Mullins *
Posts: 13788 | From: Below the Bible Belt | Registered: Sep 2002
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magnum mysterium
Shipmate
# 3418
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Janine: What about oral sex?
I shall refrain from answering this question with the most obvious answer!
quote: Originally posted by Jeff Featherstone: It seems to me that biblically just about any sexual activity within marriage is fine provided it just involves that man and woman.
I disagree - isn't this a little homophobic?
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Bonzo
Shipmate
# 2481
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Posted
quote:
The Bible has plenty to say about the importance of keeping sex within marriage
I disagree.
[Edited for UBB in quote.] [ 26. December 2003, 23:52: Message edited by: Tortuf ]
-------------------- Love wastefully
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Father Gregory
Orthodoxy
# 310
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Posted
Dear MM
I took the sentence to mean "no unfaithfulness." That's why I could agree with it. Whether the poster intended that is another matter. What the Bible means by sex, marriage and orientation has been done-to-death elsewhere.
-------------------- Yours in Christ Fr. Gregory Find Your Way Around the Plot TheOrthodoxPlot™
Posts: 15099 | From: Manchester, UK | Registered: May 2001
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Pheonix
Twisted fire starter
# 2782
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Posted
Don't see anything wrong with it
In fact rather nice...
Posts: 2384 | From: on the move. | Registered: May 2002
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jlg
What is this place? Why am I here?
# 98
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Posted
I noticed in the little How to Make Your Confession pamphlet our priest recently put out that oral sex was listed as OK for married couples, but only as part of foreplay.
Procreate! Procreate! Procreate! (to the tune of Vatican Rag)
One of the many things about which I don't agree with the official teaching of the RC Church.
On the other hand, I find it a bit odd and perhaps even disturbing that kids are buying into this idea that only a penis ejaculating inside a vagina counts as "real sex". Although I suppose it's nothing new; there were plenty of proudly "technical" virgins around back in the '50s and '60s, too.
Posts: 17391 | From: Just a Town, New Hampshire, USA | Registered: May 2001
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Sine Nomine*
Ship's backstabbing bastard
# 3631
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by jlg: I noticed in the little How to Make Your Confession pamphlet our priest recently put out that oral sex was listed as OK for married couples, but only as part of foreplay.
Uh Oh!
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Lyda*Rose
Ship's broken porthole
# 4544
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Posted
Sine, for a priest who would put out pamphlets such as those, unless you are already a RC you probably have a bigger problem to worry about.
-------------------- "Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano
Posts: 21377 | From: CA | Registered: May 2003
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Amos
Shipmate
# 44
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Posted
jlg--I looked at your post and saw '...my priest is putting out'
-------------------- At the end of the day we face our Maker alongside Jesus--ken
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Sine Nomine*
Ship's backstabbing bastard
# 3631
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Posted
I couldn't possibly be a Roman Catholic. The nearest church to me has pinky-beige wall-to-wall carpeting inside and a tacky grotto outside.
Their priest is kind of hot though. But he already has a lover.
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Katie H. L.
Shipmate
# 1996
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Posted
Well, I am too ignorant of Biblical anything to have an informed opinion about what it says about sex (I'm not proud of this, but it's the truth) but I do think that oral sex is sex, and if kids think it doesn't count they are fooling themselves. It was silly when Bill Clinton tried to claim it doesn't count, and it's silly now.
On the other hand, you cannot get pregnant that way, and it's not the most efficient way to transmit STDs, so if they are doing that rather than flat-out intercourse, it might not be the worst thing in the world.
Of course, they could still suffer unfortunate emotional, spiritual, and social consequences from this "not-sex," if they are not ready, or are too indiscriminate in who they choose as their partners.
Katie
-------------------- Katie L. just using her middle initial for a while.
Posts: 606 | From: San Francisco, USA | Registered: Dec 2001
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Sine Nomine*
Ship's backstabbing bastard
# 3631
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by TheGreenT: oh sine!
Yes, that wall-to-wall carpeting is kind of shocking.
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that Wikkid Person
Shipmate
# 4446
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Posted
Odd that, in a time when same-sex couples are getting recognized as couples, and when what they do is recognized as "gay sex", that quote: this idea that only a penis ejaculating inside a vagina counts as "real sex"
would still be out there. It can only be to help maintain healthy numbers of schlong-guzzling teenaged virgins, who can feel they're still holding back a form of intimacy for someone special.
-------------------- We have only one truth and one reality. Let's make the most of them.
Posts: 1007 | From: Almonte, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Apr 2003
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Emma Louise
Storm in a teapot
# 3571
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Sine Nomine: quote: Originally posted by TheGreenT: oh sine!
Yes, that wall-to-wall carpeting is kind of shocking.
lol
Posts: 12719 | From: Enid Blyton territory. | Registered: Nov 2002
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Zeke
Ship's Inquirer
# 3271
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Posted
I'm shocked, too. Who could do such a terrible thing to the acoustics of a room, and then claim to have authority to pronounce other acts to be defiling? [ 26. December 2003, 18:24: Message edited by: Zeke ]
-------------------- No longer the Bishop of Durham ----------- If men are so wicked with religion, what would they be without it? --Benjamin Franklin
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Pheonix
Twisted fire starter
# 2782
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Posted
I have heard of sermons in some churches where oral sex is classed as a sin and people have been called to repent of it. I really cannot see how the bible can be used to justify that. Personally that strikes me very much as a cult where they try to control your sex life...
What is wrong with what couples do behind closed doors? As long as it doesn't break laws of the land then surely its purely up to them and no-one else? I can't imagine God giving out a list of sex acts between between consenting married couples (in this example) of what is and isn't allowed... It's almost a case of Stop dear, I have to check its allowed in the bible before we try it... Really!
[tangent] I have had heard it said of cults that once they control your money and your sex life they control all of you.. Not quite sure how true that is... [/tangent] [ 26. December 2003, 19:19: Message edited by: Pheonix ]
Posts: 2384 | From: on the move. | Registered: May 2002
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Scot
Deck hand
# 2095
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Pheonix: I have heard of sermons in some churches where oral sex is classed as a sin and people have been called to repent of it.
Only when it's done very, very badly. With teeth.
-------------------- “Here, we are not afraid to follow truth wherever it may lead, nor tolerate any error so long as reason is left free to combat it.” - Thomas Jefferson
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Pheonix
Twisted fire starter
# 2782
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Scot: quote: Originally posted by Pheonix: I have heard of sermons in some churches where oral sex is classed as a sin and people have been called to repent of it.
Only when it's done very, very badly. With teeth.
Ouch, that thought just makes me want to wince..
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CorgiGreta
Shipmate
# 443
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Posted
Three adolescent girls go to confession together.
The first girl tells the priest that she peeked through a window and looked at a naked man's penis. The priest tells her to go to the back of the church and wash her eyes with water from the holy water stoup.
The second girl tells the priest "I touched my boyfriend's penis." The priest tells her to go the back of the church and wash her hands with the holy water.
The third girl enters the confessional and after a few minutes sulks to the back of the church and whispers, "Move over girls. I have to gargle." [ 26. December 2003, 20:47: Message edited by: CorgiGreta ]
Posts: 3677 | Registered: Jun 2001
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jlg
What is this place? Why am I here?
# 98
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Amos: jlg--I looked at your post and saw '...my priest is putting out'
Poorly phrased, to be true. Consider it my Christmas gift to all those who used it as an excuse to make remarks. (Yoo-hoo! Sine!)
Posts: 17391 | From: Just a Town, New Hampshire, USA | Registered: May 2001
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Sine Nomine*
Ship's backstabbing bastard
# 3631
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Posted
I don't make these things up. Father "X" is quite attractive, and he does have a lover.
What the bishop thinks I can't imagine, except Father keeps two inner-city parishes going.
A friend of mine used to be his housekeeper, but I'll stop now.
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Anselm
Shipmate
# 4499
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Posted
I agree that ISTM that the Bible affirms firstly, the ‘goodness’ of sex as a gift from God, and secondly, that the proper place for sex and exploring sexuality is within the covenant of marriage.
There is nothing inherently wrong with the ‘act’ of oral sex within marriage. But any ‘right’ act can be corrupted by evil motives. For example, for a partner to demand or exert pressure for oral sex from their unwilling spouse would be wrong. (In the same way that a spouse refusing sex to their partner as a way of exacting revenge, or controlling the relationship, is wrong). Love is the controlling ethic.
-------------------- carpe diem domini ...seize the day to play dominoes?
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Lurker McLurker™
Ship's stowaway
# 1384
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by CorgiGreta: Three adolescent girls go to confession together.
The first girl tells the priest that she peeked through a window and looked at a naked man's penis. The priest tells her to go to the back of the church and wash her eyes with water from the holy water stoup.
The second girl tells the priest "I touched my boyfriend's penis." The priest tells her to go the back of the church and wash her hands with the holy water.
The third girl enters the confessional and after a few minutes sulks to the back of the church and whispers, "Move over girls. I have to gargle."
I've heard a similar joke. But the punchline was "I'm not gargling with that after she's put her ass in it!"
-------------------- Just War Theory- a perversion of morality?
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MadKaren
Shipmate
# 1033
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Posted
(...my mum finally worked out why the littlegreenalien has a tongue piercing.... )
MadKaren
-------------------- -- Why do people who claim to love God embarrass him in public?
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barrea
Shipmate
# 3211
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Posted
I believe that all forms of sex including oral sex are wrong outside of marriage so,why make jokes of things that are offensive to God.Do you not think that that is wrong.
That Wikid person I think that you did right in refusing, stick with it.
-------------------- Therefore having been justified by faith,we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. Romans 5:1
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Sine Nomine*
Ship's backstabbing bastard
# 3631
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by barrea: why make jokes of things that are offensive to God.Do you not think that that is wrong.
No. He gave (some of) us a sense of humor, which is one of the things that sets us apart from the animals.
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jlg
What is this place? Why am I here?
# 98
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Posted
Preach it, brother Sine!
barrea, He also gave us brains and a conscience, which I take a sign that He expects us to ponder and consider how we live our lives, not just blindly follow rules put forth by some individuals claiming to be The Church or whatever. [ 27. December 2003, 18:07: Message edited by: jlg ]
Posts: 17391 | From: Just a Town, New Hampshire, USA | Registered: May 2001
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Sarkycow
La belle Dame sans merci
# 1012
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Sine Nomine: quote: Originally posted by barrea: why make jokes of things that are offensive to God.Do you not think that that is wrong.
No. He gave (some of) us a sense of humor, which is one of the things that sets us apart from the animals.
What are the other things that set us apart from the animals?
Not licking our bottoms after a particularly tasty meal?
Inquiring minds, and all that...
-------------------- “Just because your voice reaches halfway around the world doesn't mean you are wiser than when it reached only to the end of the bar.”
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Timothy the Obscure
Mostly Friendly
# 292
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Posted
Let's not forget Song of Songs 7:2, in which many modern scholars prefer "vulva" for the word translated as "navel" in the KJV and other official translations.
Timothy
-------------------- When you think of the long and gloomy history of man, you will find more hideous crimes have been committed in the name of obedience than have ever been committed in the name of rebellion. - C. P. Snow
Posts: 6114 | From: PDX | Registered: May 2001
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Sine Nomine*
Ship's backstabbing bastard
# 3631
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Sarkycow: Not licking our bottoms after a particularly tasty meal?
I believe that is specifically prohibited in Leviticus. Or if it's not, it should be.
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Caz...
Shipmate
# 3026
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Posted
Why??? It keeps me flexible.....
You're so judgemental...
-------------------- "What have you been reading? The Gospel according to St. Bastard?" - Eddie Izzard
Posts: 1888 | From: here to there | Registered: Jul 2002
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Sine Nomine*
Ship's backstabbing bastard
# 3631
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Posted
Pity this thread isn't in Hell. This could be an interesting tangent.
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Caz...
Shipmate
# 3026
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Posted
ooops, is it not? Apologies....
THIS is why I don't often post in purgatory... I always drag things down
So.... Leviticus. Erm.....
-------------------- "What have you been reading? The Gospel according to St. Bastard?" - Eddie Izzard
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Caz...
Shipmate
# 3026
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Posted
Apologies for double post, but I felt churlish for not posting a "proper" reply...
My opinion is that between 2 consenting, loving, committed adults (my jury's still out as to whether that requires a marriage licence), all forms of sexual activity are permissable provided both parties consent and no-one else is affected by it.
I know of a couple who quite openly disagree with oral sex; saying that because it cannot lead to pregnancy it cannot be "of God". I would disagree with this opinion; God evidently put a lot of thought into the creation of our bodies and the fact that he concentrated so many nerve endings in our *ahem* more southerly regions makes me think that he intended sex to be a pleasureable as well as functional activity. Therefore if you enjoy it, I say go for it! And if you don't.... feel under no pressure to do so.
Barrea; with respect; I don't see the problem with making jokes about sex. Sex can at times be a most sacred and precious activity and it can, at times, be hilarious. The ability to laugh at yourself in these times AND the ability to speak freely and frankly without feeling embarrassed for doing so will, in my limited experience, only serve to make you a better partner!
I would so much rather we were able to talk about these things, even at the risk of a little vulgarity, rather than hide everything behind a cloak of religious censorship and leave people with no forum in which to ask their questions, post their fears, etc.
If it offends you, of course, you're perfectly within your rights not to join in.... [ 27. December 2003, 22:01: Message edited by: caz667 ]
-------------------- "What have you been reading? The Gospel according to St. Bastard?" - Eddie Izzard
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Janine
The Endless Simmer
# 3337
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Posted
Now THIS was the discussion I was hoping to have when I posted the same basic questions in an OP on my GCM boards-
I mean, I moderate the "Marriage Relationships, Love and Sexuality" Forum, fer goodness' sake! I think the folks there are shocked I might ever bring up a sex-related subject...
*Sigh*
We'll see how it plays out.
I guess the topic was just a little too hard for them to swallow.
"On The Tip Of Your Tongue"
Meanwhile, I am glad I have you guys around for the comic relief I crave. Thank you.
-------------------- I'm a Fundagelical Evangimentalist. What are you? Take Me Home * My Heart * An hour with Rich Mullins *
Posts: 13788 | From: Below the Bible Belt | Registered: Sep 2002
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Janine
The Endless Simmer
# 3337
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by barrea: I believe that all forms of sex including oral sex are wrong outside of marriage so,why make jokes of things that are offensive to God. Do you not think that that is wrong.
I guess it depends on what is "coarse jesting" to you, Barrea.
-------------------- I'm a Fundagelical Evangimentalist. What are you? Take Me Home * My Heart * An hour with Rich Mullins *
Posts: 13788 | From: Below the Bible Belt | Registered: Sep 2002
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Sine Nomine*
Ship's backstabbing bastard
# 3631
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by caz667: I know of a couple who quite openly disagree with oral sex
Oh my!
They sound far more interesting than most of my dinner guests.
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Janine
The Endless Simmer
# 3337
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Posted
Remind me, S., if I am ever blessed to dine in your company, to avoid the deadly sin of Being Boring. I'll up this subject all you want.
-------------------- I'm a Fundagelical Evangimentalist. What are you? Take Me Home * My Heart * An hour with Rich Mullins *
Posts: 13788 | From: Below the Bible Belt | Registered: Sep 2002
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Sine Nomine*
Ship's backstabbing bastard
# 3631
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Posted
What does it tell us that two of the wildest women on these boards are Churcha Christ?
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Grits
Compassionate fundamentalist
# 4169
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Posted
quote: barrea, He also gave us brains and a conscience, which I take a sign that He expects us to ponder and consider how we live our lives, not just blindly follow rules put forth by some individuals claiming to be The Church or whatever.
The OP seemed to want serious answers, and few have been given, so maybe that's a point of contention here. Is the question about whether oral sex is OK or whether it is sex? I think the answer to both is yes. If the question is whether it is OK for unmarried kids to be doing it, my answer would have to be no. I think barrea is just saying that's the end of the discussion for him, which should be fine with everyone else, since this is Purgatory.
I understand and appreciate what you're saying here, Jennifer. I just find it interesting that this is always used as a "weapon" against those of us who follow nothing but the Bible. There is no individual or church hierarchy that is giving me the "rules" I follow -- it's just the stuff in the Bible. So when you make a comment like the one above, it comes across to me that you associate someone with conservative views being ensconced in some kind of legalistic, formalized religion, and that's just not true for some of us.
I guess I think God gave us brains and a conscience AND the Bible, to be used in conjunction with one another. So I choose to use my brains and conscience to try and follow those teachings in the Bible. Heaven forbid I have to worry about more rules from men or church!
-------------------- Lord, fill my mouth with worthwhile stuff, and shut it when I've said enough. Amen.
Posts: 8419 | From: Nashville, TN | Registered: Feb 2003
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Janine
The Endless Simmer
# 3337
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Posted
Yeah, I wanted good honest opinion- backed with Bible if anyone was making a case for me to believe and practice as they do -
Re: oral sex and the Christian.
After shocked offense, the board owner over at GCM just deleted the thread over there.
How sad, that Christians can't discuss this stuff whenever/wherever they need to.
-------------------- I'm a Fundagelical Evangimentalist. What are you? Take Me Home * My Heart * An hour with Rich Mullins *
Posts: 13788 | From: Below the Bible Belt | Registered: Sep 2002
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Erin
Meaner than Godzilla
# 2
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Grits: I think barrea is just saying that's the end of the discussion for him, which should be fine with everyone else, since this is Purgatory.
Yes and no. If you're not going to actually discuss something, what IS the point of jumping into a DISCUSSION thread on a DISCUSSION board to say that you are NOT going to discuss something?
[Hint: the only point is to piss off the people on the thread who WOULD like to discuss it, in which case they have every right to retaliate in kind.]
-------------------- Commandment number one: shut the hell up.
Posts: 17140 | From: 330 miles north of paradise | Registered: Mar 2001
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Duo Seraphim*
Sea lawyer
# 3251
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Posted
...which, I think is as good a point as any to suggest that Janine and Grits have raised some useful points for discussion.
Duo Seraphim
Purgatory Host... not a prude
-------------------- 2^8, eight bits to a byte
Posts: 3967 | From: Sydney Australia | Registered: Aug 2002
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