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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: The New Bishop of London
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Higgs Bosun
Shipmate
# 16582
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Posted
...has just been announced:
Downing Street announcement.
I think that this is quite a surprise to many, including the bookies. It will be interesting to see how things work out with the various factions in the diocese.
It is certainly interesting that a bishop who refrained from ordaining anyone to the priesthood so that he did not ordain any woman to that office has been replaced by a female bishop.
Would shipmates like to offer some speculation as to how things might evolve as Bishop Sarah takes up the reins?
Posts: 313 | From: Near the Tidal Thames | Registered: Aug 2011
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Son of a preacherman
Shipmate
# 4181
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Posted
Press conference coverage promised shortly on the BBC2 Victoria Derbyshire show...
Posts: 168 | From: Sussex by the Sea | Registered: Feb 2003
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Son of a preacherman
Shipmate
# 4181
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Posted
Sadly that seems to have gone the same way as Mo Farah on SPOTY ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
Posts: 168 | From: Sussex by the Sea | Registered: Feb 2003
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Son of a preacherman:
Sadly that seems to have gone the same way as Mo Farah on SPOTY
![[Confused]](confused.gif) I don’t understand a word of this sentence.
But I’m thrilled for Bishop Sarah ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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hatless
Shipmate
# 3365
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Posted
I heard her speak to a gathering of chaplains and found her excellent; deep, sharp and human. I think she is comfortable in the tricky blend of worlds where faith and government meet, which has got to be good for a bishop of London.
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My crazy theology in novel form
Posts: 4531 | From: Stinkers | Registered: Sep 2002
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
Wow. Just wow.
Good for her - but she'll need a lot of prayer and support. From all 'factions'.
![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif)
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Barnabas62
Host
# 9110
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Posted
I see pete173 has given her a warm welcome. I found her personal statement very encouraging.
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
I've never heard of her - but it sounds as if it is a bold and excellent decision.
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Galilit
Shipmate
# 16470
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Posted
Probably because she has been actually working hard at her job(s) .
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She who does Her Son's will in all things can rely on me to do Hers.
Posts: 624 | From: a Galilee far, far away | Registered: Jun 2011
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Higgs Bosun
Shipmate
# 16582
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Posted
Her statement has a good paragraph acknowledging the different traditions in the diocese, and expressing her intention of working constructively with all.
I find it interesting that she recognises the church planting not only by Holy Trinity, Brompton (charismatic evangelical) but also St Helen's, Bishopsgate (the 'mother church' of the conservative evangelicals).
The charismatics will have no problem with her appointment. They may have been uncertain a few years back, but now they are generally promoting it.
How the conevos will react is more interesting. Last week, the vicar of St Helen's gave a
'warning' that they might leave the CofE if the next bishop of London was not "orthodox on sex". Given that the other main shibboleth of the conevos is "no women in spiritual authority over men", I'm intrigued to see what their reaction will be.
Posts: 313 | From: Near the Tidal Thames | Registered: Aug 2011
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
We've heard similar statements about respecting different traditions from evangelicals in the past. The reality of some of them have figured in threads on this site about places such as St Sepulchre-without-Newgate, St Thomas Heigham, etc. so we wait and see.
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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passer
Indigo
# 13329
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Posted
I just heard a news report on how encouraging it was to see a woman appointed to one of the top three roles in the Church for the first time.
I imagine HM the Q might have a view on that!
Posts: 1289 | From: Sheffield | Registered: Jan 2008
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
I saw the news, and I know that she would not have been appointed if she was not up to a really challenging job (whoever it is, whatever gender).
Yes, it is great that a woman has been appointed to this role. As always, it is tragic that this is news.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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GreyFace
Shipmate
# 4682
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Posted
Where does she stand on matters LGBTI+?
Posts: 5748 | From: North East England | Registered: Jul 2003
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sabine
Shipmate
# 3861
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Posted
Loved her statement
sabine
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"Hunger looks like the man that hunger is killing." Eduardo Galeano
Posts: 5887 | From: the US Heartland | Registered: Dec 2002
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3rdFooter
Shipmate
# 9751
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by GreyFace:
Where does she stand on matters LGBTI+?
From The Guardian:
Mullally is viewed as supportive of LGBT equality. The new bishop said London was a very diverse city and that she hoped everyone could find a spiritual home. She did, however, endorse current C of E teaching that marriage was a union between a man and woman, saying: “I absolutely support that.”
Pick the bones out of that. Probably not inclusive enough for some. I wonder if St Helen's Bishopsgate are going to give back the keys to our building.
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3F - Shunter in the sidings of God's Kingdom
Posts: 602 | From: outskirts of Babylon | Registered: Jul 2005
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ExclamationMark
Shipmate
# 14715
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by 3rdFooter:
quote:
Originally posted by GreyFace:
Where does she stand on matters LGBTI+?
From The Guardian:
Mullally is viewed as supportive of LGBT equality. The new bishop said London was a very diverse city and that she hoped everyone could find a spiritual home. She did, however, endorse current C of E teaching that marriage was a union between a man and woman, saying: “I absolutely support that.”
Pick the bones out of that. Probably not inclusive enough for some. I wonder if St Helen's Bishopsgate are going to give back the keys to our building.
Not an Anglican these days but still concerned to see the Kingdom built through the faith and example of my Anglican brothers and sisters. As an outside a few thoughts come to mind.
Notice the use of the word "current" in this context.
The big question for many in London will reflect when/if "current" policy changes, will her views change with it? In other words, are her views on marriage fixed or open to change?
If it's the latter (the cynic might suggest it's possible given the use of "current," her views on inclusivity and not being part of the evangelical stable), I'd say look out, watch this space. Jayne Ozanne, who is committed to fighting for inclusion at all levels, welcomes the appointment which would suggest that she (Jayne) sees the possibility at least - and perhaps even the certainty - of significant change under Sarah Mullaley's tenure.
Not quite, then, the appointment some may claim it to be and possibly even a Trojan horse for the Diocese. I get the impression that Sarah is rather more liberal and possibly more committed to following a broader part line from Synod, than we suspect or are being told.
It might help too if, for once, we had a church leader from somewhere other than a upper class Oxbridge or middle class background. At least one who spends rather more time in state schools than they do in public schools.
Posts: 3845 | From: A new Jerusalem | Registered: Apr 2009
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Arabella Purity Winterbottom
Trumpeting hope
# 3434
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
It might help too if, for once, we had a church leader from somewhere other than a upper class Oxbridge or middle class background. At least one who spends rather more time in state schools than they do in public schools.
Winston Churchill Comprehensive School, Woking Sixth Form College, and South Bank Polytechnic. That all sounds very state school to me. She's been a nurse most of her life, which tends to expose one to the great variety of humankind at its most vulnerable.
A competent person, by what I can discover.
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Hell is full of the talented and Heaven is full of the energetic. St Jane Frances de Chantal
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Callan
Shipmate
# 525
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Arabella Purity Winterbottom:
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
It might help too if, for once, we had a church leader from somewhere other than a upper class Oxbridge or middle class background. At least one who spends rather more time in state schools than they do in public schools.
Winston Churchill Comprehensive School, Woking Sixth Form College, and South Bank Polytechnic. That all sounds very state school to me. She's been a nurse most of her life, which tends to expose one to the great variety of humankind at its most vulnerable.
A competent person, by what I can discover.
Not forgetting the South East Institute of Theological Education, which is very definitely not a Bishop Factory. (Full disclosure, I was there about the same time as +Sarah). And if you are the sort of person who wants to be dubbed by her Majesty then politics and the civil service are better paths to preferment than nursing.
Either she's extraordinarily competent, or she has a dossier of extremely incriminating material about the Crown Appointments Commission stashed away somewhere. I can't claim to have known her well, but I suspect the former is more likely.
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How easy it would be to live in England, if only one did not love her. - G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 9757 | From: Citizen of the World | Registered: Jun 2001
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
Heard her being interviewed by Mishal Hussain on Today this morning. When MH asked her specifically about St Helen's Bishopsgate and their threat to leave etc, etc, she floundered, ending up with a non-sequitur about diversity in Hackney.
Someone needs to give +Jane some urgent training in traditional CofE flanelling.
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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Higgs Bosun
Shipmate
# 16582
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Posted
An interesting fact was lurking in the Christian Today article about St Helen's, Bishopsgate, which I linked to above: the associate rector of St H's, Charles Skrine, was on the Crown Nominations Commission for the appointment (probably one of the diocesan representatives). Oh, to have been a fly on the wall...
When I read the report originally, I thought it was a blast at the favourite for the appointment, Stephen Cotterell. Now, I'm wondering if it was a warning shot across the bows, knowing who was to be appointed.
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balaam
Making an ass of myself
# 4543
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by passer:
I just heard a news report on how encouraging it was to see a woman appointed to one of the top three roles in the Church for the first time.
I imagine HM the Q might have a view on that!
Yes, I believe she is #2, below God.
So if +London is #3 that puts ++Canterbury and ++York in their place. ![[Two face]](graemlins/scot_twoface.gif)
Or bad reportage. Seems likely.
I love the footwashing bit early in the bishop's statement. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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Last ever sig ...
blog
Posts: 9049 | From: Hen Ogledd | Registered: May 2003
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SusanDoris
Incurable Optimist
# 12618
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by passer:
I just heard a news report on how encouraging it was to see a woman appointed to one of the top three roles in the Church for the first time.
I imagine HM the Q might have a view on that!
Nice one! I hadn't thought of that!
I think it was a pity that she would not give a direct answer to Michelle Hussein's question on Today this morning who asked the new Bishop if homosexuality is a sin. She responded with waffle.
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I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
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BroJames
Shipmate
# 9636
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Posted
Mishal Husain actually asked quote:
Do you think homosexual relationships are sinful?
It's true that Sarah Mullally avoided answering the question, and took refuge in reasserting that there is currently an ongoing process of reflection. I might have preferred her simply to say "I'm not going to answer that now because I'm engaged in a process…" etc. etc.
[ 19. December 2017, 10:57: Message edited by: BroJames ]
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Callan
Shipmate
# 525
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
Heard her being interviewed by Mishal Hussain on Today this morning. When MH asked her specifically about St Helen's Bishopsgate and their threat to leave etc, etc, she floundered, ending up with a non-sequitur about diversity in Hackney.
Someone needs to give +Jane some urgent training in traditional CofE flanelling.
Blimey, I thought only the Pope got to change their name, when appointed.
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How easy it would be to live in England, if only one did not love her. - G.K. Chesterton
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by passer:
I just heard a news report on how encouraging it was to see a woman appointed to one of the top three roles in the Church for the first time.
I imagine HM the Q might have a view on that!
Grammatically,depending on how the original statement was phrased, it just might be possible to defend it. HMQ was not 'appointed' to her role.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
I had that thought too, but I suppose she thinks she was "appointed" by God ![[Angel]](graemlins/angel.gif)
I certainly tend to think that accounts for her taking her role very seriously.
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
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SusanDoris
Incurable Optimist
# 12618
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Posted
BroJames
Thank you - I should have checked the wording. I agree with what you think might have been a better choice of words.
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I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
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ExclamationMark
Shipmate
# 14715
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Arabella Purity Winterbottom:
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
It might help too if, for once, we had a church leader from somewhere other than a upper class Oxbridge or middle class background. At least one who spends rather more time in state schools than they do in public schools.
Winston Churchill Comprehensive School, Woking Sixth Form College, and South Bank Polytechnic. That all sounds very state school to me. She's been a nurse most of her life, which tends to expose one to the great variety of humankind at its most vulnerable.
A competent person, by what I can discover.
Yep she trained as a Nurse but went into management. Most of the hands on nurses I know see that kind of position as a desire to get away from the patients.
The Oxbridge comment wasn't addressed at her per se but I can see that it wasn't worded well. Apologies. My general thought still stands though - most of our Bishops male and female come from one narrow social class or grouping. A Farm Labourer on the Bishops' bench anyone?
As to whether or how well she will be accepted in London her vacillation on Radio 4 this morning on the LGBT question will have done her no good at all. One wonders how she answered that question at interview - perhaps we should be told. If she wasn't asked it then the process is not robust.
[ 19. December 2017, 13:14: Message edited by: ExclamationMark ]
Posts: 3845 | From: A new Jerusalem | Registered: Apr 2009
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
Dear me. Not yet installed, but already weighed in the balances, and found wanting.
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Callan
Shipmate
# 525
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Posted
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
quote:
Yep she trained as a Nurse but went into management. Most of the hands on nurses I know see that kind of position as a desire to get away from the patients.
It's a paradox that if someone is good in a hands on position the obvious reward is a management role. So quite often you encounter people who used to be really good at their jobs who are now filling roles to which they are not really suited. Or you get people who are really good at their jobs and then don't get promoted because they are not management material and then spend much of their working life seething with resentment. This is, apparently, one of the drivers of white collar crime. And it is an article of faith among those who have not the aptitude or desire to take on a management role that the bosses are useless and all the real work is done by the grunts at the coal face. I've seen this in accountancy, law enforcement and among the parochial clergy and have no doubt it exists in other sectors as well.
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How easy it would be to live in England, if only one did not love her. - G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 9757 | From: Citizen of the World | Registered: Jun 2001
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
Well, there are certainly posters on this thread (and other threads) who clearly believe that the C of E hierarchy is unfit to manage anything.
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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ExclamationMark
Shipmate
# 14715
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
Dear me. Not yet installed, but already weighed in the balances, and found wanting.
IJ
Not true. Comments and reflections are based on experience of the individual in present/past roles. Such experience can be a good guide for future expectations
Posts: 3845 | From: A new Jerusalem | Registered: Apr 2009
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
I had that thought too, but I suppose she thinks she was "appointed" by God
I certainly tend to think that accounts for her taking her role very seriously.
Don't have knowledge of her, aside from the links - is she on the evangelical end? which I get from the "commitment to follow.... as a teenager".
(I was not serious enough to commit to much as a teen, except to try to survive being a teen.)
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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BroJames
Shipmate
# 9636
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
I had that thought too, but I suppose she thinks she was "appointed" by God
I certainly tend to think that accounts for her taking her role very seriously.
Don't have knowledge of her, aside from the links - is she on the evangelical end? which I get from the "commitment to follow.... as a teenager".
(I was not serious enough to commit to much as a teen, except to try to survive being a teen.)
I assume np you are enquiring about Sarah Mullally - though the post you are quoting is about Her Majesty the Queen!
Posts: 3374 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2005
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
Good heavens BroJames - yes the bishop not the queen! (Goose ball that I am!)
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
I hope that both HM the Q and My Lady of London believe that they are in God's hands, at any rate!
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
BTW, +Sarah served her curacy here, which may give those interested some idea of her churchmanship. Open evangelical/MOTR, perhaps?
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by SusanDoris:
I think it was a pity that she would not give a direct answer to Michelle Hussein's question on Today this morning who asked the new Bishop if homosexuality is a sin. She responded with waffle.
A pity maybe but certainly not unsurprising. Any self respecting Bishop who wants to hold on to their newly acquired mitre needs all the guile of a politician.
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Change is the only certainty of existence
Posts: 3206 | From: U.K. | Registered: Dec 2011
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
I would agree with that, were it not for the sheer cockupedness that politicians give us...
+Sarah will indeed need wisdom, and serpentian guile, along with a GSOH....
(What is it with St. H's, Bishopsgate? If the C of E really is pants filled with smelly poo, why don't they hand back the keys, and go where the underwear is pure?).
![[Paranoid]](graemlins/paranoid.gif)
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
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ExclamationMark
Shipmate
# 14715
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
Drat - some of us in this diocese were hoping to poach her for our vacancy.
Another Evangelical is on his way
Posts: 3845 | From: A new Jerusalem | Registered: Apr 2009
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
>> cockupedness <<
Sigmund noticed you gave the Finger to those who would corner the Bishop. (so naughty!)
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
posted by Bishops Finger quote:
What is it with St. H's, Bishopsgate? If the C of E really is pants filled with smelly poo, why don't they hand back the keys, and go where the underwear is pure?
![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif)
Presumably something along the lines of the notorious "mormon chastity pants" we first heard of during the Joyce McKinney scandal???
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
I'm glad somebody else remembers those- I usually get blank looks when I refer to them.
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My beard is a testament to my masculinity and virility, and demonstrates that I am a real man. Trouble is, bits of quiche sometimes get caught in it.
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
Perhaps that's what was indeed at the back of my mind when I posted, God help me.....
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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ExclamationMark
Shipmate
# 14715
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Posted
Just read the transcript of the Radio 4 interview. Oh dear.
She must have known the question was coming: why such fudge and hesitation in response?
Posts: 3845 | From: A new Jerusalem | Registered: Apr 2009
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
Do you have a link?
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
Just read the transcript of the Radio 4 interview. Oh dear.
She must have known the question was coming: why such fudge and hesitation in response?
Perhaps she fudged her answer because she doesn't suffer from the unequivocal certainty either way that benights so many others who have such an itch to pronounce on the subject.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
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