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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Did you ever see Billy Graham preach live?
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Stetson
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# 9597
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Posted
Just curious about how many people saw him in person. You can just answer yes or no, or share a few memories if it's "yes".
And, for the record, yes I did, as a kid in the late 70s, even though I was Roman Catholic.
I can't say I was entirely comfortable with the experience; I think it had the same feeling of "weirdness" that often accrued to religious experiences when I was a kid. I knew who Graham was beforehand, and while I had nothing against protestants generally(my dad was not Catholic at the time, and never seriously so), I think I sensed there was something vaguely "wrong" about Catholics going to see Billy Graham. (Not that the Church AFAIK ever told people not to see him.)
I remember my mom wanted to go up to get a blessing at the end, but I declined.
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I have the power...Lucifer is lord!
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Bishops Finger
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# 5430
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Posted
Yes, in London in 1966 (IIRC), along with a coach-load of other teenagers from the large Yoof Group we had at the church I then attended.
Can't say I was much moved personally, but a lot of people were. How many of those who came forward at that rally are still faithful to the Lord, I wonder?
A great man, though. Here's the BBC News obituary.
RIPARIG.
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
Yes -- and it was MWd.
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Bishops Finger
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# 5430
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Posted
Thank you, Miss Amanda - that report reminds me that George Beverley Shea sang at the rally I went to, back in '66.
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
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Siegfried
Ship's ferret
# 29
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Posted
I saw him preach during his Seattle crusades at the Kingdome (ugliest stadium ever!) in '76 or '77. We would always watch him on TV, too.
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Siegfried
Life is just a bowl of cherries!
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Stetson
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# 9597
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Posted
And since I neglected to mention it before, I saw Graham in my hometown of Edmonton. Going by wikipedia's "List Of Billy Graham's Crusades", it would have been in 1980.
[ 21. February 2018, 14:33: Message edited by: Stetson ]
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I have the power...Lucifer is lord!
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Bishops Finger
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# 5430
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Posted
That list is truly amazing.
![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif)
I see Billy was in London in 1966, and again in 1967, so I'm really not quite sure which of those I attended. It's a while ago now.... ![[Ultra confused]](graemlins/confused2.gif)
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
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Stetson
Shipmate
# 9597
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
That list is truly amazing.
Yeah, it wasn't linking in my last post, so I'll try this...
https://tinyurl.com/y9kzrzp2
There ya go.
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I have the power...Lucifer is lord!
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Mark Wuntoo
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# 5673
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Posted
Yep, at Haringey and Wembley several times in the 50's.
I think we also should acknowledge that of those early converts (I don't know about the later ones) a significant number went on to train as ministers/ missionaries: we heard the testimonies at Bible College.
I supported him at the time and found him inspirational (and in my teenage naivety suspected he was manipulative).
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Blessed are the cracked for they let in the light.
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Stetson
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# 9597
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Posted
quote:
I supported him at the time and found him inspirational (and in my teenage naivety suspected he was manipulative).
I'm not sure what you mean here. You supported him AND suspected he was manipulative, at the same time? Was it some sort of mixed-emotions thing?
And why would thinking someone is manipulative be connected to naivety? To the extent that any position can be assumed naive, I would think it's thinking that someone is motivated by pure intentions.
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I have the power...Lucifer is lord!
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Mark Wuntoo
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# 5673
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Posted
Badly put and trying hard not to be critical.
I was naive in not recognising or not wanting to recognise the manipulation. I was naive in my unquestioning support of what he was doing and preaching. It's a long time ago and I was very young ![[Snigger]](graemlins/snigger.gif) and much water has flowed under my bridge since. ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
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Blessed are the cracked for they let in the light.
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Diomedes
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# 13482
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Posted
Yes 1966 at Earls Court. The preaching didn't move me particularly but the music was amazing. I still remember the thrill of singing 'How Great Thou Art' - and I've loved that hymn ever since.
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Distrust simple answers to complicated questions
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
Yes, 1984 in Norwich.
There, he was not being manipulative, and he explicitly said that there would be no music during the appeal.
He gave a fairly standard talk. GBS sang (and we had thunder and lightening while he sang "How great thou art". It was all a bit old-style for me, but a simple, basic message.
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Lord may all my hard times be healing times
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Aravis
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# 13824
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Posted
i heard him in Bristol in 1984. My main memory of the event is that his sermon was very factual and basic, not emotional at all, but there were hordes of people who responded to the "altar call".
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Jammy Dodger
Half jam, half biscuit
# 17872
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Aravis:
i heard him in Bristol in 1984. My main memory of the event is that his sermon was very factual and basic, not emotional at all, but there were hordes of people who responded to the "altar call".
Likewise - also heard him in Bristol in 1984 - from memory I'd volunteered to act as a steward/usher or something like that. Similar experience - after he spoke I thought "was that it?" and then thousands of people poured down to the front of the stadium. Don't remember it being at all emotionally-driven.
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Bishops Finger
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# 5430
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Posted
/slightly odd tangent/
Schroedinger's Cat said:
quote:
GBS sang (and we had thunder and lightening while he sang "How great thou art". It was all a bit old-style for me, but a simple, basic message.
I took a service (Communion by Extension) at a church near Our Place a few years ago, and, right on cue, we duly had a thunderstorm during the singing of HGTA .......
Noted what others have said about Dr. Graham's simple, basic, and unemotional message. That chimes in with my own rather hazy recollections.
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
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Bob Two-Owls
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# 9680
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Posted
I went with the Sheffield University Christian Union to London in 89. I just remember thinking that I really didn't want to be part of it all anymore and I dropped out of the CU the following week. It took The Nine O'Clock Service to completely destroy the last vestige of Christianity in me but the Billy Graham trip was the start of my exit.
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Bishops Finger
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# 5430
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Posted
Bob Two-Owls, I don't wish to pry into what may well be a sensitive issue for you, but what was it about Billy Graham that began to put you off Christianity?
I can quite understand, though, why The Nine O'Clock Service business gave the coup de grace.
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
I don;t know what Bob Two-owls experience was (I am sure we will find out), but within the evangelical circles I was in, there was a lot of pressure and a lot of focus on the visit.
I can see, if someone was unsure about evangelicalism (whatever and however), it could be a breaker. I was glad I went to hear him, but I came to realise very soon that his time of that style of evangelicalism was at an end.
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Blog
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Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
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Gee D
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# 13815
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Posted
Yes, when he was here in the late 50s/early 60s. I've forgotten the exact year, but I was in senior school by then. The youth group at my church organised it all. My memory is of very powerful preaching but of wondering on the train home what it had all been about. I did not go forward at the call - I had already been confirmed and did not know what the extra call meant when I had already committed myself.
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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
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Lothlorien
Ship's Grandma
# 4927
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Posted
I too attended then Gee D. The crusade was strongly supported by the Sydney Diocese then and I attended some counselling classes at St Columbs, West Ryde, but did no counselling later.
I loved the singing, and was envious of the choir. I have since found similar reactions to massed choirs, so it was not because of the occasion. I am as much moved by spectators at Welsh rugby singing and also by choir and audience at the Last Night of the Proms. As I was by crusade singing.
[ 21. February 2018, 20:34: Message edited by: Lothlorien ]
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Bob Two-Owls
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# 9680
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
Bob Two-Owls, I don't wish to pry into what may well be a sensitive issue for you, but what was it about Billy Graham that began to put you off Christianity?
It is hard to say, it just felt like everyone around me was getting much, much more out of the experience than I was and that people were judging me for wasting what was, for them, a golden opportunity. I was searching for something meaningful and that just wasn't it. Maybe I went with the wrong people or maybe it came at just the wrong time for me but I kind of wish I had not gone along.
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
He came here some 20 years ago. There was a big push to go, to volunteer etc. We took part in none of it. There was something profoundly negative for me about him. Something about accepting things and not being sceptical which put me completely off.
Seeing the poison that his son Franklin spews and strews, I've felt it was right to avoid him. I also see in my mind's eye the movie version of Elmer Gantry re Billy.
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
Paris, 1986; I was leading an open-air evangelism team that promoted the campaign in collaboration with the main organisers. As a result I spent a fair bit of time at the campaign HQ. The main thing I remember is the campaign chairman in France concluding afterwards "I don't feel called to work with Americans long-term".
I think it was quite a defining event for evangelical self-perception in France, though.
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
Thank you, Bob. ISWYM.
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
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Gracious rebel
Rainbow warrior
# 3523
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Posted
Ipswich 1984. We were a shared venue with Norwich (hiss hiss) during his last British tour - I think there were 4 nights in Ipswich and 4 nights in Norwich. I was there every night, singing in the choir (which my father had trained) and also a counsellor ....something I felt I had been pressured into by the large Baptist church I was attending at the time, and not something I felt wholly comfortable about, even back then in my GLE days.
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jedijudy
Organist of the Jedi Temple
# 333
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Posted
Pittsburgh, 1968 in Pitt Stadium.
Our little country church (UCC) hired a bus and nearly all of us went to the crusade. I remember thinking that I wished our preacher could speak like Billy Graham.
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Jasmine, little cat with a big heart.
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Stetson
Shipmate
# 9597
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gee D:
I did not go forward at the call - I had already been confirmed and did not know what the extra call meant when I had already committed myself.
I think that's what I was alluding to earlier, about it seeming "vaguely wrong" for a Catholic to be at a Billy Graham service. The "call to the altar" seemed particualrly disassociating, since while I don't think I had an entirely firm grasp on theology, I kind of wondered why I would need to go up, since I was already going to Mass every week.
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I have the power...Lucifer is lord!
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Barnabas62
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# 9110
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Posted
I heard him preach in Norwich football stadium in 1984, one pf the Mission England venues. I was part of a locally recruited choir. He came across as simple, modest, thoughtful, even a little nervous. Not at all "fire and brimstone".
I have a vivid memory of George Beverly Shea singing the Lord's Prayer, very beautifully. That was moving.
Also of a most effective interview on local TV where Billy Graham hoped that he had not personally converted anyone, since conversion was the work of the Holy Ghost. It knocked the interviewer off a clearly prepared line of questioning.
The modesty and humility seemed quite genuine to me and I think those characteristics may have been his most powerful assets as a preacher. Not so much what he said, but the way that he said it.
The follow up system for folks who came forward was pretty good. We had a number of folks converted at the Norwich events referred to our local church and, mostly, they stayed the course. Two of them became full time church ministers.
[ 22. February 2018, 08:12: Message edited by: Barnabas62 ]
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
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GordonThePenguin
Shipmate
# 2106
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Posted
I saw him twice in London in 1989 - once at Earls Court and then at Wembley Stadium a few days later in an event that, IIRC, was very hurriedly arranged to accomodate demand to hear him.
I have to admit it left me cold on both occasions.
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Mudfrog
Shipmate
# 8116
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Posted
I was in the Billy Graham Choir when he came to Blackpool - just a theatre venue - in the early 1980s. I heard him again, as part of the huge crowd, at Anfield in 1984(?)
I find any accusation of him being manipulative or strange or suspect or questionable, actually very offensive. We're not talking Joel Osteen here, or Morris Cerillo or that ilk. This is an old fashioned Gospel preacher who preached with no gimmicks, no hysterics, no call for money! no promise of cures thruugh 'miracle spring water', no prosperity Gospel, NOTHING!
I also find strangely condescending the whole 'I am a Catholic but I still went' or 'I'm not sure about his theology, but...' What the hell??
Here is a man who spoke about Jesus to millions and then sent them back to their own Catholic/Liberal/non-evangelical churches as well as the evangelical churches he was comfortable with. He was not a recruting officer for the Southern (or any type) of Baptists - he was a recruiting officer for Jesus and he did not specify anything other than salvation through the blood of Christ and repentance and faith in him.
What is so objectionable aboutt that?
There is such grudging admiration and such mean-spirited 'assessment' of this man who even secular sources say was a simple, humble man of God with a consistent message and a consistent life to back it all up.
I think some of you, who will have hardly any positive influence on more than a handful of people, are in no position to be sniffy about the man that is being hailed as the greatest preacher, the greatest representative of Christ to the world in the entire 20th Century.
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"The point of having an open mind, like having an open mouth, is to close it on something solid."
G.K. Chesterton
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Dennis the Menace
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# 11833
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Posted
Sydney 1979, I went to the opening,closing and a few in between. Went with a friend, at the time, who went forward at the appeal. I had to go too as we would have been separated in the crowd. Loved the singing but the message could have been interchanged with selling Amway, Avon and vacuum cleaners!!
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"Till we cast our crowns before Him; Lost in wonder, love, and praise."
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Mark Wuntoo
Shipmate
# 5673
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Posted
Mudfrog: I felt that the music was manipulative; ok, it always is but it was consistently used to bring people to the point of responding. Also, the first people up from their seats when the appeal was given were hundreds of counsellors and advisers - thus encouraging others to respond and I find that manipulative.
As for Billy Graham's lifestyle, I well remember a lot of criticism that he stayed in expensive hotels and this was defended on the grounds that he needed to be assured of rest IIRC.
Edited to say that he went out of his way to only come to UK in response to invitations from the churches and to agree that he consistently stated 'Go back to your churches' (i.e. whatever the hue).
[ 22. February 2018, 10:30: Message edited by: Mark Wuntoo ]
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Blessed are the cracked for they let in the light.
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
Mudfrog, in all fairness, the OP asked for (in effect) personal memories of seeing/hearing Billy Graham, so those memories, being personal, are what you're now reading on this thread.
What a contrast between Dr. Graham's approach, indeed, and that of creeps like Creflo Dollar, Kenneth Copeland etc..
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
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Nick Tamen
Ship's Wayfaring Fool
# 15164
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
Seeing the poison that his son Franklin spews and strews, I've felt it was right to avoid him.
Franklin is like his father in many ways, but very unlike his father in many ways.
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The first thing God says to Moses is, "Take off your shoes." We are on holy ground. Hard to believe, but the truest thing I know. — Anne Lamott
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Bishops Finger
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# 5430
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Posted
Billy's last years must surely have been saddened by the shite spouted by Franklin.... ![[Disappointed]](graemlins/disappointed.gif)
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
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Tubbs
Miss Congeniality
# 440
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Posted
I went to one of Mission 89's London Events. My friend talked me into it as a chance to see a great speaker and experience a piece of history. Neither of us thought anything like this would happen again. It felt like something whose time was passing.
I don't remember a word he said, but I do remember he wasn't manipulative or emotional ... And I still don't know how I ended up down the front being prayed for. Despite all that's happened since, I've never given up on the church or on God.
[Shame about Franklyn who is trashing the great legacy he's been left]
[ 22. February 2018, 13:29: Message edited by: Tubbs ]
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"It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it up and remove all doubt" - Dennis Thatcher. My blog. Decide for yourself which I am
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Bishops Finger
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# 5430
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Posted
As Billy Graham himself said, it wasn't he who was doing the converting, but the Holy Spirit.
I gather that Dr. G. is believed to have preached in person to about 210 million people, let alone those who saw/heard him on TV or whatever. Quite a feat - over a very long life, of course, but still...
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
My Dad was at Haringey in 1954. He was impressed, especially by the numbers there. I asked if he went forward. He didn’t. He was already converted (by my Mum, he had no Christian background until he met her) and at theological college, that’s why he was in London.
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Garden. Room. Walk
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Stetson
Shipmate
# 9597
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Posted
quote:
I also find strangely condescending the whole 'I am a Catholic but I still went' or 'I'm not sure about his theology, but...' What the hell??
I wasn't trying to be condescending. My moderate feelings of unease were not stemming from "Oh, we have Rome and the Apostolic Succession, why do we need some cracker preacherman from the American backwoods to bring us to God?"
I am no longer Catholic, and thus have no sense of the RRC being superiour to protestantism(whose various faiths are coherent in their own right), but I still kind of think that what Graham was offering would be superfluous and/or redundant to what was already being offered in Catholicism.
As an example, I have nothing against the altar call, for people whose faith is compatible with that, but if you ARE a believing Catholic receiving the sacraments on a weekly basis, what exactly is the point?
If anyone here saw the movie W.(about the life of George W. Bush), there is a scene from the 1988 election where George H.W. Bush is asked by some Moral Majority types to declare himself "born again", but refuses, saying "You're talking to an old-line Episcopalian, boys."
And theologically, that makes total sense. Were George H.W. Bush to have used the phrase "born again" in the sense that those evangelicals understood it, he would essentially have been saying "My baptism and my confirmation weren't enough, I needed to have a born again experience as well, in order to be fully alive in Christ". Which of course would be a repudiation of everything he as an Episcopalian believed.
[ 22. February 2018, 14:31: Message edited by: Stetson ]
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Bishops Finger
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# 5430
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Posted
An interesting variety of POVs on this thread.
One wonders how many of those who heard Dr. Graham were already 'converted', so to speak, but perhaps found their faith encouraged and warmed by his words?
If you see what I mean (I'm not entirely sure I do....).
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
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Stetson
Shipmate
# 9597
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Posted
Bishops Finger wrote:
quote:
One wonders how many of those who heard Dr. Graham were already 'converted', so to speak, but perhaps found their faith encouraged and warmed by his words?
I seem to recall reading(I think in a book by this guy), that Billy Graham mostly preached to the converted, literally.
Which kinda makes sense, because if I am someone with no inclination toward religion in the first place, why would I go out of my way to drive somewhere(often quite a distance, it seems) to hear a traveling preacher?
I'm probably more likely to be converted just from walking into my local church on Sundays, since that's the kind of thing that some people are likely to do on an impromptu basis. Or by someone I've developed a personal rapport with, as I'm more likely to put stock in what they have to say, and they'd have a better idea of how to approach me.
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I have the power...Lucifer is lord!
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Bishops Finger
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# 5430
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Posted
Yes, and on something of a tangent, I have a similar feeling about a major evangelistic effort being mounted in this Fair City this coming June.
Individuals from local churches (of all denominations) are being encouraged to invite 'just one' person (let the reader understand and Google, if necessary) to come and hear a well-respected evangelist (J. John - none of yer horrid televangelist prosperity-gospel stuff).
I dunno. It all seems very worthy, and 'right', but I can't help feeling that it is the people who are already within the churches - or perhaps on the fringes thereof - who may be encouraged and enlivened by Canon John's preaching.
Sorry - this is a bit off-topic.
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
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Bishops Finger
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# 5430
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Posted
Just to clarify, I don't in any way denigrate the preaching of Billy Graham, or J. John, or anyone who sincerely preaches the Gospel of repentance, and faith in Jesus.
It seems to me that the Holy Spirit can work in any way, and with whatever material, She chooses...
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
Conversion. It isn't necessary and I dislike it. It stirs up ideas for me of personal extremity, hitting crisis points, and rescue from the perils of the world in a sudden emotionally laden circumstance. Followed by excited, zealous behaviour, difficult to sit with while having quiet cup of coffee.
Did Graham believe in improved worldly circumstances for a person on account of their conversion? Did he also believe in the conversion of a society?
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
I don't think he ever preached the 'prosperity gospel' shite, if that's what you mean!
Re conversion - when I expressed my doubts about our local evangelistic campaign to a friend (presently training for ordination), she concurred, and said that she didn't know anyone she'd particularly like to see changed in such a way, and at such an event.
Make of that what you will... ![[Help]](graemlins/help.gif)
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gracious rebel:
Ipswich 1984. We were a shared venue with Norwich (hiss hiss) during his last British tour - I think there were 4 nights in Ipswich and 4 nights in Norwich. I was there every night, singing in the choir (which my father had trained) and also a counsellor ....something I felt I had been pressured into by the large Baptist church I was attending at the time, and not something I felt wholly comfortable about, even back then in my GLE days.
hiss hiss back at you.
Barnabas62 - we were in the same place at the same time. Who knew?
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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SusanDoris
Incurable Optimist
# 12618
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Bob Two-Owls:
I went with the Sheffield University Christian Union to London in 89. I just remember thinking that I really didn't want to be part of it all anymore and I dropped out of the CU the following week. It took The Nine O'Clock Service to completely destroy the last vestige of Christianity in me but the Billy Graham trip was the start of my exit.
I don't think a similar type of world-wide preaching would work in the same way today - I hope not anyway. We are more aware of the term 'emotional blackmail' and how people can be manipulated by the sounds and surroundings of such gatherings.
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I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
Posts: 3083 | From: UK | Registered: May 2007
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Nick Tamen
Ship's Wayfaring Fool
# 15164
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by SusanDoris:
We are more aware of the term 'emotional blackmail' and how people can be manipulated by the sounds and surroundings of such gatherings.
While earlier generations may not have known the term "emotional blackmail," I seriously doubt they were more naïve than people today about the possibility of manipulation through the sights and sounds of mass gatherings.
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The first thing God says to Moses is, "Take off your shoes." We are on holy ground. Hard to believe, but the truest thing I know. — Anne Lamott
Posts: 2833 | From: On heaven-crammed earth | Registered: Sep 2009
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