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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Unwelcome at church
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
I dithered over where to put this, as I'm feeling pretty hellish right now. We got driven out of church today.
I just got back from worship at the little congregation by our house--I take our son there because the big one we serve in on Sunday morning has, er, issues, and he tends to get lost in the shuffle.
LL is thirteen, a real sweetheart and extremely interested in God, theology, the Bible, etc. He is also suffering from a mild case of OCD (mainly obsessions, though the compulsion part is where he feels positively obliged to tell me about it, NOW). Yes, we're seeking help.
In the meantime, he listens to the Gospel reading, the sermon, etc., gets interested and attempts to ask me questions. To which my answer is always "write it down and we'll talk about it later." God knows why he can't get it through his head to do that BEFORE I remind him, I suppose it's the OCD.
Tonight, besides the usual "Why...?" "Sssssh, write it down" routine, he went and had a near meltdown--a combo of anxiety and fear (centered on Muslims in the news this past week) plus guilt (for feeling revengeful). I asked him if he needed to go out, he said yes, I took him out and talked him down. We came in again to go up to the Lord's Supper...
... and a woman in the back pew said, "So nice of you to join us!"
Thank God there was just enough ambiguity in her tone that I didn't go to the table certain she was being nasty. (can't go up there with hate in my heart)
Service ended shortly after, and I asked what she meant. Suddenly I'm being berated for talking constantly, two other women come over to tell me how awful my son and I are, and they throw in that the organist has been complaining about it too. I mentioned my son's disability and they barely blinked and went on the attack again. Shocked and grieved, I asked, "So you'd prefer we didn't go to church anymore?" The reply was "No, but" and a renewed spate of abuse. We fled the building in tears.
What the FUCK !!!!?????
I don't know what to tell my son (he knows something was said, but not what). I don't know if we can ever return to that congregation--if the anger is as widespread as they were saying, maybe not. I'm ashamed and angry and don't think I can face them again. And I am vengefully hoping that they will lie awake tonight wondering if they have just lost someone to the Christian faith by their bastardly attitudes.
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Surfing Madness
Shipmate
# 11087
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Posted
Firstly, I love the questions that children and teenagers come up with about faith. This year particularly it has blessed me so much. It is a precious gift to have others questioning and helping us all to grow (though it might not feel like that.)
Secondly prayers for you all, that you will find somewhere who excpects you all for who you are.
![[Votive]](graemlins/votive.gif)
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I now blog about all my crafting! http://inspiredbybroadway.blogspot.co.uk
Posts: 1542 | From: searching for the jam | Registered: Feb 2006
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
I just got back from worship at the little congregation by our house
Well, I think we might know why they are a "little" congregation.
And what Chast said, in spades.
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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Lyda*Rose
Ship's broken porthole
# 4544
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Posted
Bastards! ![[Mad]](angryfire.gif)
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"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano
Posts: 21377 | From: CA | Registered: May 2003
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Jamat
Shipmate
# 11621
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Posted
You need to follow that one up. Whoever the leader is needs to know what happened.
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Jamat ..in utmost longditude, where Heaven
with Earth and ocean meets, the setting sun slowly descended, and with right aspect
Against the eastern gate of Paradise. (Milton Paradise Lost Bk iv)
Posts: 3228 | From: New Zealand | Registered: Jul 2006
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Huia
Shipmate
# 3473
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Posted
Lamb Chopped - are there any millstones in your neck of the woods?
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Charity gives food from the table, Justice gives a place at the table.
Posts: 10382 | From: Te Wai Pounamu | Registered: Oct 2002
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Taliesin
Shipmate
# 14017
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Posted
Oh, I'm so sorry to hear this... it might be just them... when I first went to church an old lady kept tutting at us, and I remember going home in tears because I thought everyone was just cross.
A woman came to see us and said it was all ok... I don't remember, long ago now, but if she hadn't made the effort I might never have gone back to any church at all.
So, the church itself might be sorry and or unaware. And if not, then they aren't the community you need. I'm sure there are more churches in your area who would be delighted and grateful to have you.
Never feel ashamed of yourself or your lovely boy.
In my church, the people from the local hostel come. And they do everything... from wandering in and out, hooting during the sermon, saying goodbye to everyone in the middle of prayers, ask for coffee and generally be part of God's family. Some people get irritated, but we forgive those people.
Posts: 2138 | From: South, UK | Registered: Aug 2008
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Spike
Mostly Harmless
# 36
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Posted
I agree with Jamat. Even if you feel you can't return (and I can't say I blame you) you really need to speak to the Vicar/minister/pastor so s/he knows what's been going on.
[ 24. August 2014, 07:22: Message edited by: Spike ]
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"May you get to heaven before the devil knows you're dead" - Irish blessing
Posts: 12860 | From: The Valley of Crocuses | Registered: May 2001
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Nicodemia
WYSIWYG
# 4756
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Posted
Oh, Lamb Chopped - prayers for you and your lovely boy. And for that congregation. I hope you can find a kinder congregation. (And organist)
And what the other LC said!
Posts: 4544 | From: not too far from Manchester, UK | Registered: Jul 2003
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fletcher christian
Mutinous Seadog
# 13919
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Posted
Little people in little parishes make little complaints into world war three. It makes them feel important, but they often do it without much conscious thought. I know it can be difficult or even hurtful and there is an element of 'why should I have to for everywhere we go?', but carefully explaining the situation when you have the opportunity and expressing how it made you and your son feel can be a very beneficial thing for everyone concerned. If the community is important to you then you owe to them to say something and to sometimes confront small minded behaviour - it's the only way that a community can grow. That way it could become a truly nourishing and safe place for both you and your son.
Then go home. Imagine little miss uppity prissy britches as a tree in your back yard you've always been meaning to get rid of. Take a large axe, and swing.
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'God is love insaturable, love impossible to describe'
Staretz Silouan
Posts: 5235 | From: a prefecture | Registered: Jul 2008
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Evensong
Shipmate
# 14696
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Posted
Terrible experience lamb chopped. ![[Frown]](frown.gif) ![[Tear]](graemlins/tear.gif)
Like Jamat and Spike, I think letting the leader know is a good idea, even if you never go back.
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a theological scrapbook
Posts: 9481 | From: Australia | Registered: Apr 2009
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
Lamb Chopped
I just want to say that because of who I know here, I am pretty sure there are congregations out there where not only will you and your son be tolerated but you will be positively welcomed.
Jengie
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"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
Back to my blog
Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
So sorry to hear this
that you find a kind and welcoming place soon.
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
Oh, Lamb Chopped - how ghastly. We all know that people can be revolting but to be on the receiving end hurts like mad.
First you must tell the leader/pastor/priest - if only as a cathartic exercise.
Second, you and your boy need to know this is not your fault, nor anything to do with his problems: it is about people being un-Christian.
Third - if there is a support group for families coping with autism/aspergers in the area ask them if they know of a church where everyone is made welcome; you never know, it could be that another 'brand' may be around that is more about living the Gospel, rather than mouthing it.
Meanwhile use the anger (which is fully justified) to clean the gutters or something.
love and prayers.
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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Sir Kevin
Ship's Gaffer
# 3492
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Posted
Unchristian turds!
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If you board the wrong train, it is no use running along the corridor in the other direction Dietrich Bonhoeffer
Writing is currently my hobby, not yet my profession.
Posts: 30517 | From: White Hart Lane | Registered: Oct 2002
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
It's worth bearing in mind that the witches may not at all be representative of the whole congregation. There may be a handful of awful people in every church, while the majority of the congregation would be horrified at such an attitude!
My church is fairly formal, but we include and love the special needs children and adults we have in church, as well as the noisy babies. If anyone says otherwise, they are acting on their own and not on behalf of the whole congregation!
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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Raptor Eye
Shipmate
# 16649
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Posted
We all hope for warmth and welcoming love, but sometimes what we get is a slap in the face, eh. How disheartening.
OK, time to pick ourselves up, dust ourselves off, pray hard that God will give us strength and guidance, and try to pray for God's love to infiltrate the hearts of those who have hurt us so that they will be ashamed (hot coals on their heads anyone?).
The way to change a culture is to keep challenging it calmly until the message comes through. Show your love in return for their lack of it. Speak to the minister in private and mention that some people are giving you a hard time, while you're doing your best to help your son and be sensitive to the needs of others at the same time. Ask the straight question of him/her: are we welcome and loved here?
Most of all, seek God's guidance, preferably with a spiritual director's help. With all that's happening to you right now, something special may be on its way. Hang on in there.
May the peace of the Lord be with you.
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Be still, and know that I am God! Psalm 46.10
Posts: 4359 | From: The United Kingdom | Registered: Sep 2011
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
Thank you guys. I think you're right, I've got to go talk to the pastor (bleah, I hate hate HATE those kinds of meetings). Then I think we'll absent ourselves for at least a week to let him, er, handle his flock. We'll see what happens next.
So angry I could easily use an axe to hang a millstone round the turds' necks, to coin a phrase. And having a hard time not snapping at my poor kid, who does not yet know what they were yelling at me about--and never will, if I have my choice.
We went to church at our regular place this a.m. and he did the self-same question-asking during the service like five times. And then I did the self-same "write it down and don't distract people" thing, like five times.
Thank God we were in the balcony, with very few people to be disturbed by us.
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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LRP
Shipmate
# 5013
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Posted
Love and prayers.
Posts: 420 | From: Yorkshire lass, born and bred. | Registered: Sep 2003
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Piglet
Islander
# 11803
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Posted
What a horrid thing to have to go through, LC. I hope for the sake of the rest of the congregation that the monsters who drove you away are the exception rather than the rule. I think you're right to have a word with the vicar - he/she should be aware that some of the congregation are being as unpleasant as that.
I know there are people who feel children in church should be seen and not heard (there's a lady in our congregation who avoids christenings as she doesn't like the distraction), but there's no excuse for that sort of world-class nastiness.
that you are able to resolve it, either with the vicar or, if necessary, by finding another church.
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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music
Posts: 20272 | From: Fredericton, NB, on a rather larger piece of rock | Registered: Sep 2006
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la vie en rouge
Parisienne
# 10688
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Posted
If you’re going to say anything about it all (not saying you have to), I’m wondering if you might not be better to write a letter? The fact that you would take the time to sit down and write it shows that it’s important to you and not just something you’re complaining about on the spur of the moment. I would write an old-fashioned pen and paper letter, as well, not an email.
Writing also has the advantage that you can think calmly about what you want to say and not worry about not expressing yourself the way you wanted to because you’re upset. You can redraft it a couple of times until you’re happy with it.
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Rent my holiday home in the South of France
Posts: 3696 | Registered: Nov 2005
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Avila
Shipmate
# 15541
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Posted
I agree with the letter too, perhaps with suggestion to meet and discuss.
As a minister at churches where I am not there every week I definitely would want to know, and a letter helps me to take it in better too as can look back at it, and I can have my own reaction alone rather than being tempted to throw things about whilst you are telling me and my attention should be on you not planning to kill them.
I hear what people say about not all the church but note you said it was a small congregation, so the balance and space to be aside from the idiots is limited.
If anything like my experience it is probably the very same people who moan that people don't join them... have a less vocal/dramatic version of this in one of my chapels, and they just don't get it.
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http://aweebleswonderings.blogspot.com/
Posts: 1305 | From: west midlands | Registered: Mar 2010
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Darllenwr
Shipmate
# 14520
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Posted
Do put it in writing to the Leader - using as many redrafts as it takes to take any ill-feeling out of it.
I can think of two situations in our own church experience that broadly parallel yours:
1. The Boy was under 1 - just starting to become audible in church. It was made very clear to us that, henceforth, only one of us could be in church at a time. The other would have to stay at home looking after The Boy. We simply upped and left. As an aside, the church in question is now on its last legs and probably won't see out the year.
2. We were visiting a Church in the South-West of England. I guess we must have sat in somebody's pew because, when it came to coffee time, we became the centre of an exclusion zone. Quite literally, the congregation formed a circle around us with their backs to us. On that occasion, St Gwladys was sufficiently annoyed that she wrote to the Rector, who was quite horrified by what she heard. Because we were only visiting, it made no long-term difference, but it has certainly coloured our view of that particular church.
We should have written to the Deacons about the first of the situations but, as much of the impetus was coming from the Deacons, there didn't seem to be much point.
But, as has been said above, putting it in writing allows everybody the freedom to be away from a critical zone at the time of the explosion!
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If I've told you once, I've told you a million times: I do not exaggerate!
Posts: 1101 | From: The catbox | Registered: Jan 2009
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Thyme
Shipmate
# 12360
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Posted
I was once at a church which was convinced it welcomed young families and had a special ministry for them as they were the future of the church.
(Actually, have you ever heard of a church which doesn't have this in its mission statement? In many cases it is hard to avoid the conclusion that either they are lying or there has been a spectacular failure ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif) )
Anyway, over a period of time and various clergy incumbent reigns, various young families came and went and when the last one departed (they had been very active in the church for a considerable time) the Church Council discussed the matter with a view to discovering what they could have done better and could do better in the future.
They decided nothing, because in each case the family concerned had 'issues' which prevented them from integrating fully with that church community and the church had done everything to make them welcome. Really! I heard about it first hand from a friend on the Church Council.
Fast forward some years and the congregation was a tiny number of very elderly and longstanding members and they finally got a clergyperson who did start attracting and keeping young families, lots of changes, the proverbial breath of fresh air. A sunday school started. Baby changing facilities were provided. ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
At which point some of the most longstanding and powerful members of the Council having failed to intimidate this clergyperson and prevent all this became disgruntled and left. : ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
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The Church in its own bubble has become, at best the guardian of the value system of the nation’s grandparents, and at worst a den of religious anoraks defined by defensiveness, esoteric logic and discrimination. Bishop of Buckingham's blog
Posts: 600 | From: Cloud Cuckoo Land | Registered: Feb 2007
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Piglet
Islander
# 11803
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
... I'm rather sensitive where LL is concerned.
I'm not a mother, but isn't that part of the job description?
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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music
Posts: 20272 | From: Fredericton, NB, on a rather larger piece of rock | Registered: Sep 2006
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Leaf
Shipmate
# 14169
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Posted
Ouch ouch ouch, Lamb Chopped. Sounds like you ran into the sharp end of a clique.
As others have said, definitely speak with the clergy about this incident. I might suggest speaking with the clergy in person rather than by letter. A letter isn't bad, but I think in person may be better. It's more effective for communicating your anger and distress, and it may be helpful to gauge the clergy reaction to your story.
What follows is pure speculation on my part, but speculation derived from experience, FWIW. Let's say the person who spoke to you initially - "X" - is beginning to suffer hearing loss, and is not coping well with it. X insists on sitting at the back of the church as God and Martin Luther intended, and where X has sat for decades. X's friends know about this. When X complains about disruption in the service, it is far easier for X and X's friends to blame an external source rather than acknowledge the real and grieving problem. In short, it may be a story of two competing special needs, both of which can surely be accommodated with a little creativity.
Or they might just be bitches. Who knows.
If you can bear to brass it out and go back, do so.
Posts: 2786 | From: the electrical field | Registered: Oct 2008
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
Okay, went to go see the pastor. He's aware that there is a problem in the congregation with in-DUH-viduals who can't cope with children, and has been trying to address it for some time. He's going to take another shot at it during the two weeks we are away (kid at camp). We're also going to move up front away from the b*tches. I am dubious about this, because IMHO it will just mean that EVERYBODY has the opportunity to get visually distracted by his wiggles (if they are prone to that kind of distraction), but he's hoping that this will cool off the situation and allow him to say that he has evaluated the situation and never seen any problematic behavior from LL himself. (which he hasn't to date)
We shall see.
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Leaf:
... sitting at the back of the church as God and Martin Luther intended ...
![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif)
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Leaf
Shipmate
# 14169
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Posted
Good for you for going and doing something about it. ![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif) Sounds like that pastor has a few tough sheep to deal with there. I pray that God will give wisdom... and that the tough sheep may go a few rounds with the Holy Spirit. ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
Posts: 2786 | From: the electrical field | Registered: Oct 2008
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luvanddaisies
the'fun'in'fundie'™
# 5761
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Posted
Every time you write about LL on here I want to meet him - he sounds like a great bloke, and from what I see of you on here, I imagine with your parenting he's going to grow up into a brilliant guy.
Glad the pastor in the little church is going to try to do something about the attitude problems of some of the congregation - I hope it works, and that it works well enough that you don't end up with a twisting unease in your stomach every time you go.
quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
We went to church at our regular place this a.m. and he did the self-same question-asking during the service like five times. And then I did the self-same "write it down and don't distract people" thing, like five times.
This might be a stupid suggestion, but what if you both logged into a chat app. Then you could answer everything immediately, but still have a written-down record of conversation for stuff that warranted more in-depth discussion later?
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"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines, sail away from the safe harbour. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." (Mark Twain)
Posts: 3711 | From: all at sea. | Registered: Apr 2004
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Acurisur
Apprentice
# 18151
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Posted
Lamb Chopped, sounds like either you've got what I refer to as "False Converts" in that small congregation or they haven't read their Bible in quite some time. Don't they realise that Jesus loves kids?
Matthew 18:3
And he said: “I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.”
Matthew 19: 13-14
Then little children were brought to Jesus for him to place his hands on them and pray for them. But the disciples rebuked those who brought them.
Jesus said, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.”
Mark 9:37
“Whoever welcomes one of these little children in my name welcomes me; and whoever welcomes me does not welcome me but the one who sent me.”
Mark 10:13-15
People were bringing little children to Jesus to have him touch them, but the disciples rebuked them. When Jesus saw this, he was indignant. He said to them, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. I tell you the truth, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it.”
Luke 18:15-16
People were also bringing babies to Jesus to have him touch them. When the disciples saw this, they rebuked them. But Jesus called the children to him and said, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these.”
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Jesus Rules!
Posts: 8 | From: Gloucestershire | Registered: Jul 2014
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
The chat thing would be great, but there's no Wifi in the church. (and I really do need to be training him to pay attention to circumstances before he opens his mouth anyway--which is what I'm doing with the "write it down" thing.)
As for those who started this, they clearly believe that the talking/squirming thing is completely under our control, and that the only reason we don't alter it is a desire to be disrespectful and annoy others. Which kind of blows my mind. Like it's so common for people to come to church on a Saturday night with the deliberate intention of pissing everyone off?
If we were into that sort of thing, we'd find a bar or something. A political rally, go to Ferguson...
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Callan
Shipmate
# 525
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Posted
In my experience the Hyacinth Bouquet Panzer Division speak largely for themselves but they tend to have a disproportionate influence because they are the ones who will come to the clergy with their whinge about a child not making sounds authorised by the rubrics; whereas most people range between "yay! parents and children!" and "if I were a better Christian I could cope with this more easily" but don't, by and large, say much about it. Hopefully, the Pastor will tell Madame Revolting to STFU, but in any event I would be boggled if she spoke for a majority of the congregation.
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How easy it would be to live in England, if only one did not love her. - G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 9757 | From: Citizen of the World | Registered: Jun 2001
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
We're also going to move up front away from the b*tches. I am dubious about this...
If it helps, my wriggler does better at the front, where he has a good view and feels more a part of what's going on. It is both where he prefers to sit, and where he is less distracting ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
The pastor is firmly not in the Hyacinth camp, so that's a good thing. But he does have to live with them...
He too thought LL might be more engaged and wiggle less up front. But I have my doubts, because LL is pretty massively engaged already (that's part of the problem--he keeps making comments on the hymns, the sermon, asking what words mean, etc.). And he has issues with tics, too.
Still, never hurts to try.
I think I may need to refrain from communion for at least the first week we return, though. I'm not likely to be in a proper state to receive.
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Heavenly Anarchist
Shipmate
# 13313
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Posted
I am so sorry you and your son have experienced such hurtful behaviour and hope and pray for improvement in the situation and for your pastor to provide you with the support you need as valued members of his church (hugs)
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'I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by.' Douglas Adams
Dog Activity Monitor
My shop
Posts: 2831 | From: Trumpington | Registered: Jan 2008
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Caissa
Shipmate
# 16710
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Posted
Our oldest son (now 17) has Aspergers, Lamb Chopped. In his younger years his behaviour was challenging during services. For the last 5 years he has been responsible for running the sound system, challenging behaviour in church disappeared. I hope things work out for you and LL. I am glad you have a supportive pastor.
Posts: 972 | From: Saint John, N.B. | Registered: Oct 2011
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Arethosemyfeet
Shipmate
# 17047
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
The chat thing would be great, but there's no Wifi in the church. (and I really do need to be training him to pay attention to circumstances before he opens his mouth anyway--which is what I'm doing with the "write it down" thing.)
Bluetooth might work for that.
quote:
As for those who started this, they clearly believe that the talking/squirming thing is completely under our control, and that the only reason we don't alter it is a desire to be disrespectful and annoy others. Which kind of blows my mind. Like it's so common for people to come to church on a Saturday night with the deliberate intention of pissing everyone off?
Some parents do seem to be either unaware of the disturbance their children are making or unwilling to make more than a token effort to stop them. I don't think I've ever seen that in church, however, and I'm well aware that all is not always what it seems so wouldn't say anything unless I was 100% sure that there wasn't a good reason for the behaviour. In practice that means I don't say anything.
Posts: 2933 | From: Hebrides | Registered: Apr 2012
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
There are times I want to say to people "Why you you just fuck the fuck off, you self-opinionated, piece of shit." Which might be why I don't go to church any more. People like this make me angry.
I was at a Greenbelt talk just yesterday by Nadia Bolz-webber, about "welcoming the other". She (and Sara Miles) made two important points: 1) The other is anyone different, which is always hard to identify and 2) Even the most welcoming churches tend to welcome people like them, not "others".
Really sorry you had to suffer this. It sucks. It is not worth it, because a church that does not want you as you are does not want you at all, and does not deserve you.
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Blog
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Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
Thanks!
Just to clarify, we're in the rather sticky position of being semi-permanent visitors. My husband holds a call to the large congregation that houses our tiny Vietnamese congregation, but for various reasons we aren't getting all of our family needs met there. So we go to a nearby small church on Saturdays, where we can worship without being responsible for anything. Then on Sundays, we go do all the ministry type stuff at the big church.
The complainers are long-time members of the congregation. I will say this has given me an interesting look at what it means to be outsiders attempting to "join" a new church!
Thanks for the Bluetooth idea--problem is, we haven't any money now that I'm laid off, and all our tech is extraordinarily low. (I use a dumb phone, but at least I have something!)
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
You are both bright, and focused motor activity is sometimes helpful for tics - so how about learning simple sign ?
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815
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Posted
Your minister seems to be very sensible and going about this in a manner beneficial to the whole congregation. All need to know how to live with each other.
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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
Posts: 7028 | From: Warrawee NSW Australia | Registered: Jun 2008
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink:
You are both bright, and focused motor activity is sometimes helpful for tics - so how about learning simple sign ?
You mean for church? Because they could see it easily over the pew back. We'd distract even the un-distractables, I'm afraid
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
I am sensitive to distraction because of my own sensory and anxiety issues, but these are my own issues - I wouldn't dream of tutting at someone or telling them off! How awful that you've had this experience, and I hope you can sort something out.
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
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Lyda*Rose
Ship's broken porthole
# 4544
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Posted
I don't know what you do to quietly correct LL, but if you haven't already tried it you might give him his own pencil with a Church Question Journal that says on the cover, "Remember- don't ask questions aloud; write your questions in here". When he forgets, smile and put a silent finger to your lips and point silently to his journal. Repeat as necessary. The journal can also be the place where you write the answers together and discuss what he is learning. I'm not sure if this fits any of his skills, but I thought I'd throw it out there.
And good luck with the bitches.
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"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano
Posts: 21377 | From: CA | Registered: May 2003
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