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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Martin PC not & Ship's Biohazard: What the hell are you on about?
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Ad Orientem
Shipmate
# 17574
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Posted
Apart from the fact that your posts are nearly always incomprehensible and that you're a Marcionite, what the fuck is this "Christendom" that you blame all the world's evils on? Isn't it time to change the tune or at the very least post in a way we can understand what the bloody hell you're on about?
Posts: 2606 | From: Finland | Registered: Feb 2013
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South Coast Kevin
Shipmate
# 16130
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Posted
While sharing your bafflement with plenty of Martin's posts, I think I can help with what he means by 'Christendom'. It's basically the nexus of church power and state power which began (pretty much) under the reign of the Roman emperor Constantine. Churches being involved in exercising political / military power, secular rulers getting involved in church matters; that sort of thing.
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My blog - wondering about Christianity in the 21st century, chess, music, politics and other bits and bobs.
Posts: 3309 | From: The south coast (of England) | Registered: Jan 2011
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Matt Black
Shipmate
# 2210
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Posted
I have to confess that I don't understand what he says pretty much 100% of the time. But there is a solution - just scroll past his posts; you don't have to make the effort to read them. That's how I deal with it anyway; YMMV.
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"Protestant and Reformed, according to the Tradition of the ancient Catholic Church" - + John Cosin (1594-1672)
Posts: 14304 | From: Hampshire, UK | Registered: Jan 2002
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Spike
Mostly Harmless
# 36
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Posted
The title of this thread would work perfectly well without the word "about"
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"May you get to heaven before the devil knows you're dead" - Irish blessing
Posts: 12860 | From: The Valley of Crocuses | Registered: May 2001
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
Ah, bless. The Ship's most obscure and oblique poster is encountered by the most literal-minded and unimaginative Shipmate.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Sipech
Shipmate
# 16870
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Posted
Is there a specific thread or post that the OP is referring to?
I second SCK, 'Christendom' is a pretty well-known word. Am surprised a shipmate starts a thread in hell with a confession of ignorance.
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I try to be self-deprecating; I'm just not very good at it.
Twitter: http://twitter.com/TheAlethiophile
Posts: 3791 | From: On the corporate ladder | Registered: Jan 2012
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luvanddaisies
the'fun'in'fundie'™
# 5761
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ad Orientem:
...what the fuck is this "Christendom"...
This.
[ 06. August 2014, 09:33: Message edited by: luvanddaisies ]
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"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines, sail away from the safe harbour. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." (Mark Twain)
Posts: 3711 | From: all at sea. | Registered: Apr 2004
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by TheAlethiophile:
Is there a specific thread or post that the OP is referring to?
I second SCK, 'Christendom' is a pretty well-known word. Am surprised a shipmate starts a thread in hell with a confession of ignorance.
We're talking about Martin PC's obscure posts (for which he's been called before). His 'Christendom' could easily differ from that of everybody else. Whether it does or not only he can answer. Whether we can understand his answer, who can tell?
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Ad Orientem
Shipmate
# 17574
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Posted
I'm not convinced he uses "Christendom" in the same sense most of us here would.
Posts: 2606 | From: Finland | Registered: Feb 2013
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Jolly Jape
Shipmate
# 3296
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Posted
I'm not so sure that Martin uses any words in the same sense that most of us do ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Seriously, though, his posts can be hard work, with obscure cultural references springing up without warning, but I can usually work out what he is trying to say. I suspect, however, that the most comfortable way to interpret Martin is not by analysis. Rather, his posts are best read as if they were poetry. We might not know precisely what he thinks on a particular issue, but we certainly know what he feels about it.
[ 06. August 2014, 09:59: Message edited by: Jolly Jape ]
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To those who have never seen the flow and ebb of God's grace in their lives, it means nothing. To those who have seen it, even fleetingly, even only once - it is life itself. (Adeodatus)
Posts: 3011 | From: A village of gardens | Registered: Sep 2002
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Latchkey Kid
Shipmate
# 12444
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Posted
I agree with JJ about the poetry style. Or perhaps it's cryptic crossword clue style. Solving the puzzle is an enjoyable task, though no correct solution is provided and follow-up posts may be like clues which cross-reference other clues. Sometimes I just give up, but other times it has caused interesting thoughts so I don't care if I have understood or not.
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'You must never give way for an answer. An answer is always the stretch of road that's behind you. Only a question can point the way forward.'
Mika; in Hello? Is Anybody There?, Jostein Gaardner
Posts: 2592 | From: The wizardest little town in Oz | Registered: Mar 2007
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
Can I just protest, on behalf of Verseworkers United, against poetry being viewed as woolly or inexact?
Martin's posts are comprehensible enough in an eye-rolling-heavenwards, wind-whipping-druidic-robes kind of way. It's just that they usually appear to have sod all to do with the subject in hand.
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
orfeo: Ah, bless. The Ship's most obscure and oblique poster is encountered by the most literal-minded and unimaginative Shipmate.
Do they now mutually annihilate eachother?
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
Can I just protest, on behalf of Verseworkers United, against poetry being viewed as woolly or inexact?
Martin's posts are comprehensible enough in an eye-rolling-heavenwards, wind-whipping-druidic-robes kind of way. It's just that they usually appear to have sod all to do with the subject in hand.
An early sighting of Martin searching for a wifi connection to the Ship...
![[Axe murder]](graemlins/lovedrops.gif)
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Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
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Ad Orientem
Shipmate
# 17574
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Ah, bless. The Ship's most obscure and oblique poster is encountered by the most literal-minded and unimaginative Shipmate.
I take offence at "unimaginative".
Posts: 2606 | From: Finland | Registered: Feb 2013
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ad Orientem:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Ah, bless. The Ship's most obscure and oblique poster is encountered by the most literal-minded and unimaginative Shipmate.
I take offence at "unimaginative".
Oh good. You understood THAT alright.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Callan
Shipmate
# 525
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
Can I just protest, on behalf of Verseworkers United, against poetry being viewed as woolly or inexact?
Martin's posts are comprehensible enough in an eye-rolling-heavenwards, wind-whipping-druidic-robes kind of way. It's just that they usually appear to have sod all to do with the subject in hand.
An early sighting of Martin searching for a wifi connection to the Ship...
Calling Edward Plantagenet to Hell, no doubt.
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How easy it would be to live in England, if only one did not love her. - G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 9757 | From: Citizen of the World | Registered: Jun 2001
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Amos
Shipmate
# 44
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Posted
I have less trouble understanding Martin PCNot's posts than I do Ad Orientam's. Martin is much less cryptic than he used to be too. He's moved from Black Mountain School, and a sort of irritating Prynnianism to being the Ship's very own Jack Clemo. And he's a damned sight less of a Marcionite than Mr Supercessionist Ad O is.
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At the end of the day we face our Maker alongside Jesus--ken
Posts: 7667 | From: Summerisle | Registered: May 2001
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Ad Orientem
Shipmate
# 17574
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Amos:
I have less trouble understanding Martin PCNot's posts than I do Ad Orientam's. Martin is much less cryptic than he used to be too. He's moved from Black Mountain School, and a sort of irritating Prynnianism to being the Ship's very own Jack Clemo. And he's a damned sight less of a Marcionite than Mr Supercessionist Ad O is.
LOL! Better tell that to the Fathers then.
Posts: 2606 | From: Finland | Registered: Feb 2013
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
Actually, I should take back the unimaginative part. It takes real imagination to think that you have the Fathers on speed-dial. Or do they use e-mail now?
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
Um, that would delusion, orfeo. A stick thrust so deeply generally impairs imagination.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Twilight
Puddleglum's sister
# 2832
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Posted
Why protest the obscure utterances of one among the many when outrageous clarity abounds upon our vessel of vanity? Are erratic euphemisms more erroneous than articulated lorries of ennui? Should Martin Neither Particularly Correct Nor Wholly Wrong be shunned when all about are Headless Chickens of Chaos masquerading as Lords of Logic? I think not neither do I post!
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Amos
Shipmate
# 44
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Posted
Some people think they were Nefertiti in a past life. Ad Orientum thinks he was St John Chrysostom.
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At the end of the day we face our Maker alongside Jesus--ken
Posts: 7667 | From: Summerisle | Registered: May 2001
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Ad Orientem
Shipmate
# 17574
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Posted
Heaven forbid I should think I'm anyone. Naturally I believe that the authority of the Fathers carries much weight though. And not many here appeal to their authority so I think it's good someone does, if only to remind others that they exist.
Posts: 2606 | From: Finland | Registered: Feb 2013
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
Can I just protest, on behalf of Verseworkers United, against poetry being viewed as woolly or inexact?
Martin's posts are comprehensible enough in an eye-rolling-heavenwards, wind-whipping-druidic-robes kind of way. It's just that they usually appear to have sod all to do with the subject in hand.
An early sighting of Martin searching for a wifi connection to the Ship...
When Firenze said "druidic" I thought more of Getafix. And pass the magic potion.
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ad Orientem:
Heaven forbid I should think I'm anyone. Naturally I believe that the authority of the Fathers carries much weight though. And not many here appeal to their authority so I think it's good someone does, if only to remind others that they exist.
Oh, there's nothing wrong with the Fathers having authority. There's a LOT wrong with the fact that the Fathers always seem to agree with you no matter what. It's not so much that the Fathers' authority carries weight, but that your authority allegedly has the weight of the Fathers behind it.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Ad Orientem
Shipmate
# 17574
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Originally posted by Ad Orientem:
Heaven forbid I should think I'm anyone. Naturally I believe that the authority of the Fathers carries much weight though. And not many here appeal to their authority so I think it's good someone does, if only to remind others that they exist.
Oh, there's nothing wrong with the Fathers having authority. There's a LOT wrong with the fact that the Fathers always seem to agree with you no matter what. It's not so much that the Fathers' authority carries weight, but that your authority allegedly has the weight of the Fathers behind it.
I've never claimed to have any authority. I do try to think with the Church though, which is why I give tradition so much weight and why I look down on innovation.
Posts: 2606 | From: Finland | Registered: Feb 2013
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ad Orientem:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Originally posted by Ad Orientem:
Heaven forbid I should think I'm anyone. Naturally I believe that the authority of the Fathers carries much weight though. And not many here appeal to their authority so I think it's good someone does, if only to remind others that they exist.
Oh, there's nothing wrong with the Fathers having authority. There's a LOT wrong with the fact that the Fathers always seem to agree with you no matter what. It's not so much that the Fathers' authority carries weight, but that your authority allegedly has the weight of the Fathers behind it.
I've never claimed to have any authority. I do try to think with the Church though, which is why I give tradition so much weight and why I look down on innovation.
You don't try to think. Period. I've seen you utterly bamboozled when someone tries to take you outside of your bubble even a little bit. Hence my comment about your lack of imagination. It's not just that you think other people's arguments are wrong, it's that you can't even comprehend them. Often you react as if someone talked to you in Martian.
And these Fathers you're always claiming agree with you... you know, I'm genuinely trying to remember a single time when you've actually quoted something to back this claim up, and I can't. I genuinely can't. All I can ever remember is a bald, argument-ending assertion. I'd say well over half of the posts I've ever seen from you are bald, argument-ending assertions.
You have all of Ingo's dogmatism with none of his wit or intelligence. It's not pretty.
[ 06. August 2014, 14:38: Message edited by: orfeo ]
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Ad Orientem
Shipmate
# 17574
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Posted
Well, I've never claimed to be an apologist either and prooftexting the Fathers really is just as bad as prooftexting the Scriptures. Thinking with the Church isn't about picking the right document or pulling out the right quote and saying "yes" to it. But no, I'm not into writing essay length posts. I have a life as well as being a bit lazy. As for my intelligence, you're free to come to any conclusion you like, of course.
Posts: 2606 | From: Finland | Registered: Feb 2013
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
I've come to the conclusion that you're the Ship's orthodox parrot.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Ad Orientem
Shipmate
# 17574
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Posted
Anyway, getting to the actual subject of thread, perhaps Martin could condescend to tell us why he blames "Christendom" for everything and what he actually means by the term.
Posts: 2606 | From: Finland | Registered: Feb 2013
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South Coast Kevin
Shipmate
# 16130
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ad Orientem:
Thinking with the Church isn't about picking the right document or pulling out the right quote and saying "yes" to it.
So what is 'thinking with the Church' then? As someone who's been on the receiving end of some of what orfeo calls your bald argument-ending assertions, I'd be interested to see more actual quotations from the Church Fathers, or at least some summaries of their views on various issues.
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My blog - wondering about Christianity in the 21st century, chess, music, politics and other bits and bobs.
Posts: 3309 | From: The south coast (of England) | Registered: Jan 2011
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Jon in the Nati
Shipmate
# 15849
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Posted
It is really less confusing than you might think at first. We all know what Christendom was; we talk about it mostly in the past tense. Martin PC & Not-Something or Other thinks that Christendom is something that still exists, and so he talks about it in the present tense. He is obviously incorrect about that, but once you understand that part of how he thinks, it is easier to understand.
Frankly, I came to understand Martin a bit better once I came to the conclusion that his entire persona is deliberately obfuscatory; after all, Jesus was terribly misunderstood in his time, and if it was good enough for our Lord, it must be good enough for Ship's resident faux-losopher. The only time he goes out of his way to make sense is when he's angry.
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Homer: Aww, this isn't about Jesus, is it?
Lovejoy: All things are about Jesus, Homer. Except this.
Posts: 773 | From: Region formerly known as the Biretta Belt | Registered: Aug 2010
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Thyme
Shipmate
# 12360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:
Why protest the obscure utterances of one among the many when outrageous clarity abounds upon our vessel of vanity? Are erratic euphemisms more erroneous than articulated lorries of ennui? Should Martin Neither Particularly Correct Nor Wholly Wrong be shunned when all about are Headless Chickens of Chaos masquerading as Lords of Logic? I think not neither do I post!
![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif) ![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif)
Originally posted by orfeo:
"Often you react as if someone talked to you in Martian."
I read that as 'Martin'
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The Church in its own bubble has become, at best the guardian of the value system of the nation’s grandparents, and at worst a den of religious anoraks defined by defensiveness, esoteric logic and discrimination. Bishop of Buckingham's blog
Posts: 600 | From: Cloud Cuckoo Land | Registered: Feb 2007
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Twilight
Puddleglum's sister
# 2832
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Posted
Well thanks, Thyme, that is what I was trying to do. I thought it might be fun if we all tried to talk Martin on this thread. Of course having fun might get us sent to that "8" place, which I fear much more than Hell.
Posts: 6817 | Registered: May 2002
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Siegfried
Ship's ferret
# 29
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Posted
Didn't there used to be a pretty much constant thread open about Our Martin? I'm just amazed it's taken AD this long to notice his style.
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Siegfried
Life is just a bowl of cherries!
Posts: 5592 | From: Tallahassee, FL USA | Registered: May 2001
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Ad Orientem
Shipmate
# 17574
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Siegfried:
Didn't there used to be a pretty much constant thread open about Our Martin? I'm just amazed it's taken AD this long to notice his style.
I've noticed it before, of course. I just got fed up.
[ 06. August 2014, 19:15: Message edited by: Ad Orientem ]
Posts: 2606 | From: Finland | Registered: Feb 2013
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art dunce
Shipmate
# 9258
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
Can I just protest, on behalf of Verseworkers United, against poetry being viewed as woolly or inexact?
Martin's posts are comprehensible enough in an eye-rolling-heavenwards, wind-whipping-druidic-robes kind of way. It's just that they usually appear to have sod all to do with the subject in hand.
What a great visual. I imagine his posts are fueled by a bit of locust and honey.
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Ego is not your amigo.
Posts: 1283 | From: in the studio | Registered: Apr 2005
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
Headless Chickens of Chaos--I like it. What a great name for a band!
Yep - brilliant. Got to work that into the proposed 8th Day Music Board somehow.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
But isn't this orthogonal to the christ-scrotal nature of the broken homeless ?
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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Ad Orientem
Shipmate
# 17574
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ChastMastr:
quote:
Originally posted by Amos:
Mr Supercessionist Ad O
![[Confused]](confused.gif) I'm sorry, isn't Ad Orientem female?
A geezer.
Posts: 2606 | From: Finland | Registered: Feb 2013
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
Parsimony. That's all.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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ChastMastr
Shipmate
# 716
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ad Orientem:
A geezer.
Ah, I see! Not in the US sense (which implies someone very, very old) but the UK sense. Sorry, I can only speculate about why I thought you were female--maybe it was all the discussion about head coverings in church. ![[Hot and Hormonal]](icon_redface.gif)
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My essays on comics continuity: http://chastmastr.tumblr.com/tagged/continuity
Posts: 14068 | From: Clearwater, Florida | Registered: Jul 2001
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Ad Orientem
Shipmate
# 17574
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ChastMastr:
quote:
Originally posted by Ad Orientem:
A geezer.
Ah, I see! Not in the US sense (which implies someone very, very old) but the UK sense. Sorry, I can only speculate about why I thought you were female--maybe it was all the discussion about head coverings in church.
No worries.
Posts: 2606 | From: Finland | Registered: Feb 2013
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Oscar the Grouch
Adopted Cascadian
# 1916
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Posted
AO,
You do realise, don't you, that by starting this hell call, you've simply pinned a target on your back? And achieved what? We all know what Martin is like. He's one of the oddballs that make the Ship of Fools what it is. Or would you rather rename this the Ship of Dogmatic Dullards?
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Faradiu, dundeibáwa weyu lárigi weyu
Posts: 3871 | From: Gamma Quadrant, just to the left of Galifrey | Registered: Dec 2001
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
Generally speaking, the "Hell Call" mechanism works best and makes the most sense when the person being called ("callee") has been being an asshole (or "arsehole" for you transponders). Calling someone to Hell for their theology, or their interests, their unclarity, or for something about their posting style other than assholicity, usually ends less well.
</pontificate>
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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