|
Source: (consider it)
|
Thread: sex before marriage
|
RadicalWhig
Shipmate
# 13190
|
Posted
There must be lots of married folks here...
...we started talking about sex and ended up talking about ironing!
--------------------
Radical Whiggery for Beginners: "Trampling on the Common Prayer Book, talking against the Scriptures, commending Commonwealths, justifying the murder of King Charles I, railing against priests in general." (Sir Arthur Charlett on John Toland, 1695)
Posts: 3193 | From: Scotland | Registered: Nov 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
TiggyTiger
Shipmate
# 14819
|
Posted
I guess people get more ironing than sex.
--------------------
'Each and everybody is hiding, each is concealing the place where his heart beats.'
Daniel Barenboim
Posts: 347 | From: Bath | Registered: May 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
sharkshooter
Not your average shark
# 1589
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by TiggyTiger:
Just hang them in the bathroom and stick the hot tap or shower on so the room steams up. Few minutes and all the creases have gone. In the Winter there are always the radiators of course.
That's what I do when I am traveling on business - first thing is to hang the shirts in the bathroom and turn the shower on.
--------------------
Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer. [Psalm 19:14]
Posts: 7772 | From: Canada; Washington DC; Phoenix; it's complicated | Registered: Oct 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
TiggyTiger
Shipmate
# 14819
|
Posted
I have to be careful though because trying to be extra thorough one day, I let my dress steam for too long and when I opened the bathroom door the steam set off the fire alarm. I also may make the bathroom mouldy as you're supposed to use the extractor fan in there.
--------------------
'Each and everybody is hiding, each is concealing the place where his heart beats.'
Daniel Barenboim
Posts: 347 | From: Bath | Registered: May 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by TiggyTiger:
I guess people get more ironing than sex.
For some people, the only ironing they get is what they do themselves.
--------------------
This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
TiggyTiger
Shipmate
# 14819
|
Posted
Do we have a new euphemism? Sigh, Ann Summers just doesn't provide the degree of intimacy I need.
--------------------
'Each and everybody is hiding, each is concealing the place where his heart beats.'
Daniel Barenboim
Posts: 347 | From: Bath | Registered: May 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
Gill H
Shipmate
# 68
|
Posted
I guess it would just make things worse if I said we both do our own ironing ...!
--------------------
*sigh* We can’t all be Alan Cresswell.
- Lyda Rose
Posts: 9313 | From: London | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Liberty
ship's football fanatic
# 713
|
Posted
Davelarge and I never iron, we never have - either together or separately. Well, unless he's ironing some other woman's clothes in secret? Or man's? Or in this day and age, a dog's?
We are still talking about ironing right?
ij x ![[Ultra confused]](graemlins/confused2.gif)
--------------------
"I'ma be what I set out to be, without a doubt, undoubtedly"
Posts: 1879 | From: SW2 to 20009 | Registered: Jul 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
amber.
Ship's Aspiedestra
# 11142
|
Posted
I think we're still talking about ironing, yes, though I'm far from sure why ![[Paranoid]](graemlins/paranoid.gif)
I was reading an interesting article this week in one of the daily blahs where they asked just under 100 people in very long-term relationships to keep a diary of their feelings re sex and their marriage/partnership. Nearly every person - men and women - reported that it wasn't the sex-amazingness or incredible handsomeness/beauty of their partner that was relevant. It was feeling loved and accepted for who they are, and feeling that warmth of mutual respect and mutual togetherness.
So people who enter a relationship thinking the athletic sex and their supermodel looks will keep it together may be more often disappointed, I guess?
Posts: 5102 | From: Central South of England | Registered: Mar 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Jahlove
Tied to the mast
# 10290
|
Posted
I quite like ironing to music. I find Elvis Costello's album, *My Aim Is True* is sufficient for two machine loads.
--------------------
“Sing like no one's listening, love like you've never been hurt, dance like nobody's watching, and live like its heaven on earth.” - Mark Twain
Posts: 6477 | From: Alice's Restaurant (UK Franchise) | Registered: Sep 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
|
Posted
What's long and hard and makes women moan?
An ironing board.
Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
|
Posted
Originally posted by amber:
quote:
I was reading an interesting article this week in one of the daily blahs where they asked just under 100 people in very long-term relationships to keep a diary of their feelings re sex and their marriage/partnership. Nearly every person - men and women - reported that it wasn't the sex-amazingness or incredible handsomeness/beauty of their partner that was relevant. It was feeling loved and accepted for who they are, and feeling that warmth of mutual respect and mutual togetherness.
I was supposed to have root canal treatment yesterday, but the mega-antibiotics hadn't cleared all the infection, so the dentist drilled anyway, and put anti-biotic stuff into the tooth itself, and rescheduled the actual root canal stuff. In the big scheme of things, no big deal, but I was fed-up, and grouchy, and my face was sore. My husband was sweet and sympathetic, and even said he thought my foul humour wasn't unreasonable.
I'm glad I'm married to him!
Sex-amazingness and drop-dead georgeousness counts for nothing when you've got toothache.
Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
amber.
Ship's Aspiedestra
# 11142
|
Posted
NEQ, I agree. Dear hubby's had to care for me after I nearly lost my life after a major operation and took many weeks to be able to do much for myself. When he was desperately ill in hospital earlier this year, I was there for him for week after week, and still am. You get to see each other at your absolute worst. Life isn't always pretty and fun, and long term love isn't very much about lust (though I've nothing against it ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif) )
Posts: 5102 | From: Central South of England | Registered: Mar 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Emma Louise
Storm in a teapot
# 3571
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by TiggyTiger:
I don't mind ironing baby clothes because they're small and cute and easy to handle.
Am I supposed to iron her clothes?!?! Mine don't get ironed, aj doesn't wear formal stuff to work, we don't iron
Posts: 12719 | From: Enid Blyton territory. | Registered: Nov 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Jenn.
Shipmate
# 5239
|
Posted
I'm with emma. I iron about 4 shirts a year. Normally when I forgot to get them out of the basket so they dried crumpled. Like last week. But it did take me an age to find the iron.
Really, marriage just isn't about sex. It is about lots of other things - togetherness, ironing, illness, cleaning, babies, friendship, quirks, morning breath, PMT, helping each other, cooking, washing up, fixing computers and sex.
Posts: 2282 | From: England | Registered: Nov 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
Nellie
Apprentice
# 14935
|
Posted
![[Mad]](angryfire.gif)
Can someone please explain to me how I am supposed to enjoy being single when I hear so many stories from happily married people who are really loving and supportive of one another? I am surrounded by rightly smug marrieds and going on singles trips just does not cut the mustard. Church leaders drone on about singleness being special because Jesus, Paul etc were single. Well, the thing is, I. Am. NOT Paul. And I. Am. Certainly. Not. Jesus. I can never be anybody else apart from myself.
Lord, this life is too hard. Where are you? ![[Waterworks]](graemlins/bawling.gif)
Posts: 15 | Registered: Jul 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
|
Posted
Dear Nellie,
I wasn't trying to sound like a smug married, I was just trying to say that sex ends up being a not very important part of the bigger picture.
And, as this is a thread about sex before marriage, I think that one of the benefits of waiting is that it does help separate sex from fancying. If you both know you desire each other, for months/years , but you don't have sex straightaway, then once you do start sleeping together it's much easier to accept "I'm tired and tonight I'd rather have an early night with a mug of cocoa and a good book" at face value, without worrying that there's a fundamental problem with the whole relationship.
Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
Gill H
Shipmate
# 68
|
Posted
Yes, sorry Nellie, I was just thinking that this thread had turned into a 'joys of marriage' celebration somehow, which probably isn't helping you.
--------------------
*sigh* We can’t all be Alan Cresswell.
- Lyda Rose
Posts: 9313 | From: London | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
The Great Gumby
Ship's Brain Surgeon
# 10989
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Nellie:
Can someone please explain to me how I am supposed to enjoy being single when I hear so many stories from happily married people who are really loving and supportive of one another?
Would you rather they lied and said they all hate each other?
To be honest, if discussion of sex and marriage upsets you so much, I'm struggling to understand why you've posted more or less exclusively on a thread dedicated to those exact topics.
--------------------
The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. - Richard Feynman
A letter to my son about death
Posts: 5382 | From: Home for shot clergy spouses | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
amber.
Ship's Aspiedestra
# 11142
|
Posted
Generally, support threads are in All Saints. Dead Horses really is for discussion.
[ 07. August 2009, 14:27: Message edited by: amber. ]
Posts: 5102 | From: Central South of England | Registered: Mar 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Nellie
Apprentice
# 14935
|
Posted
Don't apologise folks,the point I was making is that I am happy for married people. Note that in my previous post I said : RIGHTLY smug marrieds. I would hardly wish the single existence on anyone.
Posts: 15 | Registered: Jul 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
Curiosity killed ...
Ship's Mug
# 11770
|
Posted
Single life really isn't that bad Nellie. Having been in relationships and single, I'd really prefer to be single than in a bad relationship, and, yes, that does mean no sex. Sex, however enjoyable, really does not outweigh being abused in whatever way. It seriously isn't that important.
[ 07. August 2009, 16:36: Message edited by: Curiosity killed ... ]
--------------------
Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat
Posts: 13794 | From: outiside the outer ring road | Registered: Aug 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Nellie:
Can someone please explain to me how I am supposed to enjoy being single when I hear so many stories from happily married people who are really loving and supportive of one another?
Ignore them. The ones who are having a bad time aren't posting about it here, or talking about it in church, because its too embarrassing for them.
And also possibly too dangerous, emotionally dangerous if not actually physically dangerous. Someone who is having a hard time coping with their spouse or other family members may be very vulnerable. They might actually need to keep themselves together outwardly, to keep up an image of competence and self-control, because they fear, or even know, that if they crack they will be attacked for it. If the people you live with every day are not emotionally supportive of you it can be dangerous to let go in their presence, or to expose too much of yourself where they can see your weaknesses and take advantage of you. And an Internet forum is a public place, as is a church. What we say here is not private.
quote:
Church leaders drone on about singleness being special...
Cut their balls off. No-one should be inflicting such crap on a congregation.
No-one would say that someone in a wheelchair was "called to be a cripple". So they shouldn't say that someone who would like to be married or have children or just be in a loving sexual relationship; but whose circumstances haven't come out like that, is "called to be single".
--------------------
Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Fool on the hill
Shipmate
# 9428
|
Posted
Nellie, you have touched me with your posts. I haven't posted to the ship in a long time, probably close to a year. I have been trying to read this thread to understand some of what some friends are going through. But I have to respond to you, for whatever it is worth to you.
All you need to do is to look at statistics to know that for many people marriage is not always what it is cracked up to be, resident rightly smug married not withstanding. My impression (and it is only an impression since I don't know you) is that you should look towards being happy with yourself before being happy with another. I know single people that are very happy. I know older single people that are very happy. I know married people that are very unhappy. In my view, marriage, sex and love is a giant venn diagram. Sometimes they intermingle and sometimes they don't. I think that there is a big risk in not understanding that sex and love can be separate things because one could convince themselves of love, or eternal love, when it's not really there, just to engage in sex. This can cause much more pain I think than engaging is casual or semi casual sex.
The other thing that I would like to express to you is that sex is certainly a process. Within a marriage or outside of marriage, sexuality is a learning process and your goal to wait until the magical late 30's to engage in sex with a one night stand is almost sure to be a huge disappointment, and given the expectations and povs you seem to hold, worries me for your sake. Iow, if you were to decide you wanted to have a one night stand, you most certainly need to understand that your first time will almost certainly not be fulfilling in any way. I fear that you will find this realization crushing.
However, if upon reflection you decide that waiting until marriage is not for you, approaching a sexual life as a process is a much more realistic approach.
I really hope that you find, not a life long partner so much as some clarity and peace with how your life is and has been and will be like, married or not.
(Yes, I am married, yes I am happy, no I have not always been happy and yes, I have considered, seriously, being single again. As fate has it, I no longer consider that option. Come to think of it, marriage is also a process and not a magical land of peace and serenity.)
Posts: 792 | Registered: May 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Jahlove
Tied to the mast
# 10290
|
Posted
Also, I would add, if you are unhappily single, do not take exhortations about the Joys/Virtues of Celibacy from those who are regularly getting theirs. ![[Disappointed]](graemlins/disappointed.gif)
--------------------
“Sing like no one's listening, love like you've never been hurt, dance like nobody's watching, and live like its heaven on earth.” - Mark Twain
Posts: 6477 | From: Alice's Restaurant (UK Franchise) | Registered: Sep 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
the coiled spring
Shipmate
# 2872
|
Posted
If one is depressed about being single may i humble suggest some interesting weddings
Being a sad old fart myself brought a dish washer as felt that would be cheaper then giving away half my food just to get the dishes washed. It is cheaper..
--------------------
give back to God what He gives so it is used for His glory not ours.
Posts: 2359 | From: mountain top retreat lodge overlooking skegness | Registered: May 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
[No-one would say that someone in a wheelchair was "called to be a cripple". So they shouldn't say that someone who would like to be married or have children or just be in a loving sexual relationship; but whose circumstances haven't come out like that, is "called to be single".
I think the NT way of expressing it would be to say that either one has been given the supernatural gift (and role) of celibacy, or one has not. If anyone is continually frustrated over not being able to get married/have sex/ etc., it's pretty clear they lack that gift and therefore that calling. Time to get on with the meet and greet, introductions from relatives, renta-yenta, or what have you. And for others around them to either help the process or keep hands off and mouth shut as the seeking person desires. The preacher should wise up.
--------------------
Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
TiggyTiger
Shipmate
# 14819
|
Posted
introductions from relatives
Are you from an Asian culture or something? I can't imagine introductions from relatives being a helpful way to meet someone - but then I don't have any relatives.
--------------------
'Each and everybody is hiding, each is concealing the place where his heart beats.'
Daniel Barenboim
Posts: 347 | From: Bath | Registered: May 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
amber.
Ship's Aspiedestra
# 11142
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
...No-one would say that someone in a wheelchair was "called to be a cripple". ...
Not...exactly...true...
Church Times last year ran a half page piece written by someone who said that disabled people were indeed called to suffer on behalf of other people. They were kind enough to publish my response to it.
(As for the general point elsewhere in the thread about smugly married people, may I reiterate that ours has been bloomin' hard work at times against every conceivable set of odds. Not smugness in any "ha ha, I'm married and you're not" sort of way, therefore, but joy in the face of us having overcome adversity and impossible odds (not least the odds of hubby having survived the earlier brain haemorrhage, which were 250-1). And joy in just loving each other.)
Posts: 5102 | From: Central South of England | Registered: Mar 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
|
Posted
I'm from multiple cultures, one of which is Asian--but intros from relatives (friends, neighbors, etc. etc. etc.) were and are one of the traditional ways of meeting eligible people for ages in Western cultures. (If the relatives have a grain of tact they quietly throw the two of you together at an event, such as a dinner party. If they haven't a grain of tact, you probably know that and aren't asking for their help anyway.)
--------------------
Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
mrs whibley
Shipmate
# 4798
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by TiggyTiger:
introductions from relatives
Are you from an Asian culture or something? I can't imagine introductions from relatives being a helpful way to meet someone - but then I don't have any relatives.
Don't you know anyone who married their sibling's best friend (or indeed their best friend's sibling)? That sounds rather like introduction by relatives Western-style to me.
Posts: 942 | From: North Lincolnshire | Registered: Aug 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
TiggyTiger
Shipmate
# 14819
|
Posted
I can think of one, but she knew him from a very young age. I don't kmow of anyone who actually goes round their relatives asking them if they know any eligible partners.
I have no family now and even when I had a sister, she wouldn't have dreamed of deeming me worthy to go out with any of her friends. I only ever had three cousins whom we never saw and a great aunt.
To be honest, I don't think anyone my family knew would have been my sort.
--------------------
'Each and everybody is hiding, each is concealing the place where his heart beats.'
Daniel Barenboim
Posts: 347 | From: Bath | Registered: May 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
Eliab
Shipmate
# 9153
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RadicalWhig:
There must be lots of married folks here...
...we started talking about sex and ended up talking about ironing!
When were first got married, my wife and I seemed to be ironing all the time. We would spend all evening at it - regularly changing positions so that one of us was always ‘active' while the other sat back and relaxed for a bit - we could keep going like that for hours. And we thought nothing of doing the ironing several times a week. It seemed such an important part of our relationship.
Then my wife became pregnant with our first child, and started to get a bit more tired, more aware of her changing body, a little less confident in her attractiveness, and ironing suddenly became a lot less important to her. That was fine with me, as I was excited about the baby, and I thought it would just be a temporary pause before we resumed our mutually satisfying pastime. But when our son arrived, we found that we were busier and more exhausted than we could have imagined. Ironing became a distant memory - when the baby went to sleep, all we wanted to do was to collapse on the sofa. We still told each other that we still wanted to do the ironing, and yes, I admit we even argued about it occasionally, but it didn't help. There were always more urgent jobs. I guess we just got out of the habit.
We rarely iron now. Once a month, maybe. Oh, sometimes I can persuade my wife to give my shirt a quick press before I leave the house, but the results are rarely very satisfying for either of us. Ironing is something you need to make time for, if it's going to be really good.
I do have fond memories of the ironing we used to do, but I can't honestly say I miss it that much. I think I've got a bit more perspective now - and I've realised that there are much more important things that a marriage needs.
--------------------
"Perhaps there is poetic beauty in the abstract ideas of justice or fairness, but I doubt if many lawyers are moved by it"
Richard Dawkins
Posts: 4619 | From: Hampton, Middlesex, UK | Registered: Mar 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
amber.
Ship's Aspiedestra
# 11142
|
Posted
Posts: 5102 | From: Central South of England | Registered: Mar 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Zacchaeus
Shipmate
# 14454
|
Posted
quote:
We rarely iron now. Once a month, maybe.
You iron that much?
I will declare being in the happily married camp but I wasn't always so, and I observed that the more that I wanted a relationship the harder they were to find. Once I decided to concentrate on making my own way in life, and being happy with myself then relationships happened.
---------------
Posts: 1905 | From: the back of beyond | Registered: Jan 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
Hiro's Leap
Shipmate
# 12470
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eliab:
Oh, sometimes I can persuade my wife to give my shirt a quick press before I leave the house, but the results are rarely very satisfying for either of us.
TMI
Posts: 3418 | From: UK, OK | Registered: Mar 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
|
Posted
I'd have thought that a bed was far more comfortable than an ironing board. But then I hear you young things like to get up a good head of steam....
(wanders off, muttering 'what is the world coming to')
--------------------
Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
I think the NT way of expressing it would be to say that either one has been given the supernatural gift (and role) of celibacy, or one has not. If anyone is continually frustrated over not being able to get married/have sex/ etc., it's pretty clear they lack that gift and therefore that calling.
Yes. Though at least some preachers have claimed that being divorced or widowed is a sign that you are called to celibacy. (We could start with John Chrysostom and Saint Jerome and work on down)
quote:
Time to get on with the meet and greet, introductions from relatives, renta-yenta, or what have you.
But in practice there are millions of people who just because of their circumstances are never going to get married, or get married again, or find a sexual partner of any kind. Sometimes because of health or wealth or age or attractiveness. Sometimes things just don't work out. Very often things just don't work out. Bad things can happen to good people (or good things not happen to them). There are a lot of lonely people out there.
The church, with its long-standing love-affair with celibacy and virginity, has tended to say "oh in that case you really were called to be single all the time" which is probably about the second most unhelpful thing anyone can say to someone in that state. And the world tends to go into fluffy-bunny mode and say "Somewhere There Is The Perfect Partner For You" (*) And that leads to the number one most unhelpful thing to say which is to suggest that if you only bought a different kind of clothes, or went to the right parties, or lost weight, or wore less perfume, or more antiperspirant, or a different kind of makeup, or had your hair done, or took these pills, or joined our new sooper-dooper dating agency, or had a faster car, or went on holiday to the right posh resort, or just paid me lots and lots and lots of money, you would suddenly be more attractive and get that perfect partner.
That plays into the myth of agency. the delusion that everything that happens to you is in some way your fault. And when the two combine you end up blaming the victim. Thinking that because your life hasn't worked out the way you wanted it must be in because of something you have done. That if you aren't getting it, then you don't deserve it. That its all about you and your inadequacies. Well, maybe it isn't. Shit happens.
Maybe its because so many people are more emotionally hung-up about sex than about other things. A few posts ago someone wrote: "...you should look towards being happy with yourself before being happy with another." But if someone was complaining of being hungry I doubt if anyone would say they should learn how to be content with not eating before they ate. (Well there are some Buddhists who might I suppose but we can leave them out of it...)
(*) And now I have Wreckless Eric in my head:
quote:
When I was a young boy
My mama said to me
There's only one girl in the world for you
And she probably lives in Tahiti...
]
--------------------
Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Autenrieth Road
Shipmate
# 10509
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
Maybe its because so many people are more emotionally hung-up about sex than about other things. A few posts ago someone wrote: "...you should look towards being happy with yourself before being happy with another." But if someone was complaining of being hungry I doubt if anyone would say they should learn how to be content with not eating before they ate. (Well there are some Buddhists who might I suppose but we can leave them out of it...)
I don't hear that advice as sublimation advice. I hear it as advice saying that it's hard to successfully be in a relationship if you're not able to successfully be on your own. Relationship can't work if you (general you) are looking for it to make you happy in certain fundamental ways that are internal issues for you rather than issues for your partner to solve.
For people who already have all their own relationship-dooming issues worked out and are capable of being in a working relationship if one would only come along, the advice won't apply.
--------------------
Truth
Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
|
Posted
Shit does happen. And given what I'm about to suggest, it'll probably be happening to me any moment now.
Marriage for love and etc. is no doubt the ideal; but if I were desperate enough for sex, children, and companionship, I'd go about it in a cold-blooded "job interview" style if necessary. Heck, I'd consider marrying a would-be immigrant. There is nothing shameful in a marriage made to benefit both partners despite a lack of romantic love, provided both partners know what they're getting into and agree with it. And as most of our ancestors held for centuries, "love will (may) come" later. Commitment can exist regardless of romance.
Marriage-for-love may well be impossible for many people; marriage per se is usually not. But in Western cultures, I doubt there are many people who will settle for that. I would; but then I'm a freak.
(And Samuel Johson would have--wasn't he the one who said that a man who was happy with one woman could have been happy with any of dozens of them?)
--------------------
Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Timothy the Obscure
Mostly Friendly
# 292
|
Posted
Actually, what Johnson said was that if it were not for imagination, a man could be as happy in the arms of a milkmaid as a duchess. It was a different world...
AR is right--people who have good, lasting relationships are the same people who do well when they aren't in relationships. People who can't cope with being alone get desperate, grab at the first remotely eligible human who comes along, and usually end up with disaster. It's more complicated than that of course (you could read this book if you're interested in the science.)
--------------------
When you think of the long and gloomy history of man, you will find more hideous crimes have been committed in the name of obedience than have ever been committed in the name of rebellion.
- C. P. Snow
Posts: 6114 | From: PDX | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
amber.
Ship's Aspiedestra
# 11142
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Timothy the Obscure:
..AR is right--people who have good, lasting relationships are the same people who do well when they aren't in relationships. People who can't cope with being alone get desperate, grab at the first remotely eligible human who comes along, and usually end up with disaster.
It certainly is more complicated than that, you're right.
I can't live alone. 'Tis not possible. Never have. Don't have the skills for it. Nevertheless married to lovely hubby for 20+ years. I think in many cultures people go from family straight to a marriage.
Posts: 5102 | From: Central South of England | Registered: Mar 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Curiosity killed ...
Ship's Mug
# 11770
|
Posted
The problem with that is, amber, that not only do people go straight from family to marriage, in this culture too, but then if that marriage fails they go straight into another marriage with all the same problems unresolved.
If you're not happy to be with yourself, why should anyone else be? If to be complete you have to have someone (as in someone nameless who you haven't met, not your marriage partner of many years) with you, then maybe you do need to get comfortable with being yourself, an individual, rather than part of a couple.
Needy people out looking for a partner are incredibly offputting as they aren't seeing the people they're meeting as interesting people in their own right, but as potential partners who will fulfill their needs. If they were happy enough in themselves to be meeting people because that's interesting in and of itself, then every night out stops being a disaster when you haven't met someone - and I've heard that said by desperate single friends.
--------------------
Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat
Posts: 13794 | From: outiside the outer ring road | Registered: Aug 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
amber.
Ship's Aspiedestra
# 11142
|
Posted
I agree with you, CK. People need to be themselves, they need to grow, they need to have their own lives and their own friends. And those in good relationships will try to say something positive wherever humanly possible and acknowedge their own faults and challenges rather than blame their partner for the lot.
Yet we all 'need'. We need to be respected, and valued, and give those freedoms and choices and support from others when we need it, and we need to learn and to grow. Finding ways to do that in partnership without making someone else's life a misery is the challenge, I think.
I'm ever aware that my own safety or disability needs can impact on others in challenging ways from time to time. I know that many NT partners would not have a chance of coping, and that I probably wouldn't have a chance of coping with them either. It wouldn't be fair to even ask it. Sometimes there has to be a bit of imbalance, but for the best of reasons?
Posts: 5102 | From: Central South of England | Registered: Mar 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Autenrieth Road
Shipmate
# 10509
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Timothy the Obscure:
(you could read this book if you're interested in the science.)
I'm interested, but it's behind a subscription page -- can you post the author and title here?
--------------------
Truth
Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
Herrick
Shipmate
# 15226
|
Posted
Lamb Chopped said
Marriage for love and etc. is no doubt the ideal; but if I were desperate enough for sex, children, and companionship, I'd go about it in a cold-blooded "job interview" style if necessary. Heck, I'd consider marrying a would-be immigrant. There is nothing shameful in a marriage made to benefit both partners despite a lack of romantic love, provided both partners know what they're getting into and agree with it. And as most of our ancestors held for centuries, "love will (may) come" later. Commitment can exist regardless of romance.
_________________________________________________
I wholeheartedly agree.
![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif)
--------------------
A careless shoestring in whose tie
I see a wild civility
Posts: 1194 | From: NSW | Registered: Oct 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
Johnny S
Shipmate
# 12581
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
And that leads to the number one most unhelpful thing to say which is to suggest that if you only bought a different kind of clothes, or went to the right parties, or lost weight, or wore less perfume, or more antiperspirant, or a different kind of makeup, or had your hair done, or took these pills, or joined our new sooper-dooper dating agency, or had a faster car, or went on holiday to the right posh resort, or just paid me lots and lots and lots of money, you would suddenly be more attractive and get that perfect partner.
I disagree.
The most unhelpful thing to say is - ... but I kind of think of you as an older brother.
Posts: 6834 | From: London | Registered: Apr 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
Thread closed
Printer-friendly view
