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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: I've seen Star Wars - the spoiler thread
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Sipech
Shipmate
# 16870
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Posted
*This thread contains spoilers about the new Star Wars film*
I've just come out of the cinema. Who else has seen it? To avoid plot giveaways for those who wish to avoid them, go away now. This is a dedicated thread to avoid clashing with the regular film thread.
So it contains spoilers!
Right then, what did you make of it?
There were a number of great hat tips to the original trilogy that made me grin from ear to ear (like the little remote control lorry thing from the death star appearing early on). BB8 rather stole the show and I couldn't help but think of him (her? it?) as the lovechild of R2D2 and Wall-E.
Kye-Lo-Ren was great up until the point he took his mask off. Distinct whiff of Bane from The Dark Knight Rises but then he just turned into teenage Snape.
The action sequences were head-spinning brilliance; definitely exciting and I found myself ducking and weaving.
As the film progressed, though, I found that the homages got a bit too much. It was almost as if the best bits of A New Hope were taken with a few dashes of Return of the Jedi and The Empire Strikes Back (especially the pulling of the light sabre, King Arthur-like, from the snow into the hands of the offspring of Skywalker).
Overall, hugely entertaining, but could have had a more original plot.
*Did I mention: This thread contains spoilers*
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I try to be self-deprecating; I'm just not very good at it.
Twitter: http://twitter.com/TheAlethiophile
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Jack o' the Green
Shipmate
# 11091
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Posted
I think that's a perfect summary tbh. I found the female lead grew on me as the movie progressed. Initially, I found her quite annoying. The one major distraction for me was Carrie Fisher's lips! They seemed to be frozen into more or less a straight line. Too much botox possibly? In the latter stages, I found the villan very annoying. And what's with the 'I thought Jedi were only a legend' line again? Don't people have memories or video in this far, far away galaxy?
Posts: 3121 | From: Lancashire, England | Registered: Feb 2006
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la vie en rouge
Parisienne
# 10688
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Posted
I liked it a lot. I’m glad they’ve brought back the aesthetics of the original trilogy and not used excessive amounts of CGI.
I liked that the new hero is a girl and she is badass.
I thought they did quite well with progressively introducing the characters (mostly – along with the Millennium Falcon) from the original films. By far the biggest cheer of the night was for the appearance of Han Solo and Chewbacca, which I genuinely was not expecting at that moment.
On the plot, I thought it was a bit lazy to basically just blow the Death Star up again, except bigger.
The least convincing element for me was the baddie who I thought wasn’t nearly scary enough, even with the helmet on. Coming up with a baddie as scary as Darth Vader was always going to be a bit of a tall order, admittedly.
I’m mightily annoyed that Han Solo got killed off because he was always my favourite character and it won’t be the same without him. I’m guessing Harrison Ford only wanted to do the one film. (Local quirk: we watched it in French at my husband’s request. The voice-over artist dubbing Han Solo was rubbish and completely lacking the proper irony.) I didn’t know quite what to make of the whole “it’s true, all of it”, thing. Solo was also supposed be a giant skeptic of ancient weapons and hokey religion. Felt a bit off to me.
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Rent my holiday home in the South of France
Posts: 3696 | Registered: Nov 2005
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Sipech
Shipmate
# 16870
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
I’m mightily annoyed that Han Solo got killed off *snip* Solo was also supposed be a giant skeptic of ancient weapons and hokey religion. Felt a bit off to me.
That seems to answer the question "what happened in the 10 minutes I missed because I was busy being ill?" I did wonder why Solo & Chewey suddenly disappeared.
But surely, Solo's coming round to acknowledge the Force was sealed by his son becoming a Sith Lord.
In our cinema, the biggest cheer was when we saw the unmistakable shape of R2D2 under the sheet, even before it was pulled away.
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I try to be self-deprecating; I'm just not very good at it.
Twitter: http://twitter.com/TheAlethiophile
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Jack o' the Green
Shipmate
# 11091
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Posted
There wasn't any cheering at my screening. Overall it was less exuberant than the first showing of Revenge of the Sith despite overall being a much better film.
Posts: 3121 | From: Lancashire, England | Registered: Feb 2006
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
You do realise this thread is Very Unfair on the Hosts, don't you?
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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Sparrow
Shipmate
# 2458
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
I’m mightily annoyed that Han Solo got killed off because he was always my favourite character and it won’t be the same without him.
Haven't seen it yet ... but of course in this kind of movie there are loads of ways to bring him back/he's not really dead.
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For I am persuaded that neither death, nor life,nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
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Jack o' the Green
Shipmate
# 11091
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sparrow:
quote:
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
I’m mightily annoyed that Han Solo got killed off because he was always my favourite character and it won’t be the same without him.
Haven't seen it yet ... but of course in this kind of movie there are loads of ways to bring him back/he's not really dead.
I'm not sure that's true with Star Wars. The only people who come back are Jedi who are able to maintain a post death existence as 'force ghosts'. Everyone else tend to stay dead.
[ 17. December 2015, 16:36: Message edited by: Jack o' the Green ]
Posts: 3121 | From: Lancashire, England | Registered: Feb 2006
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
I am posting randomly because I want the spoiler that appeared on the 'todays active threads' forum summary page to disappear and not ruin it for anyone besides me.
![[Mad]](angryfire.gif)
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
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Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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jacobsen
seeker
# 14998
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Posted
It did say "spoiler?"
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But God, holding a candle, looks for all who wander, all who search. - Shifra Alon
Beauty fades, dumb is forever-Judge Judy
The man who made time, made plenty.
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
There's more than one way to access the threads on the board. If you choose to use Active Threads, you have to accept that you get a preview that you have no control over.
The film is out; discussion is legitimate, and anyone not wishing to know needs to avoid this thread.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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jedijudy
Organist of the Jedi Temple
# 333
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Posted
There was a lot of cheering in the theater I attended tonight. There was also a lot of laughing. Unfortunately I missed some of the dialogue right after the funny parts. So, I'll just have to go again, won't I? ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
There were some "we've seen this before" aspects to the movie, but it was so well done, and the spirit of the story reminded me of the magic of A New Hope.
During the time of waiting, I have to admit I was disappointed to learn that the canon of the books attached to the Star Wars universe was to be disregarded. The people and stories from the books have been my old friends for a long time. (There does seem to be a nod to them, though.) These new people are very worthy of the present saga, however! Did anyone else think that Rey looks like Padme?
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Jasmine, little cat with a big heart.
Posts: 18017 | From: 'Twixt the 'Glades and the Gulf | Registered: Aug 2001
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Mamacita
Lakefront liberal
# 3659
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by jedijudy:
There were some "we've seen this before" aspects to the movie, but it was so well done, and the spirit of the story reminded me of the magic of A New Hope.
Yes. It really did feel like "A New Hope" and it pushed all my nostalgia buttons. I was grinning from ear to ear for most of the film, so much that my face aches a little. It was like going to a reunion and seeing all your old friends.
I thought the new characters did well (I loved Maz!, although I had some reservations about Finn at the beginning, when all he seemed to do was pant.
quote:
Did anyone else think that Rey looks like Padme?
Hmm. I hadn't, but now that you say it.... I did think there was a lot going on in the look between her and Luke, like he recognizes her as the one who will redeem him.
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Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world’s grief. Do justly, now. Love mercy, now. Walk humbly, now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it.
Posts: 20761 | From: where the purple line ends | Registered: Dec 2002
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Sipech
Shipmate
# 16870
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by jedijudy:
Did anyone else think that Rey looks like Padme?
Why shouldn't she look like her grandmother? ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
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I try to be self-deprecating; I'm just not very good at it.
Twitter: http://twitter.com/TheAlethiophile
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la vie en rouge
Parisienne
# 10688
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
You do realise this thread is Very Unfair on the Hosts, don't you?
Could you not ask jedijudy to be responsible for hosting it? I mean, what were the chances she hadn’t seen it?
I’m not expecting any kind of resurrection – usually when a franchise like that bumps off a main character it’s because the actor’s had enough. It’s the same reason that Judi Dench’s M bought the farm a couple of Bond films back.
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Rent my holiday home in the South of France
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jedijudy
Organist of the Jedi Temple
# 333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
Could you not ask jedijudy to be responsible for hosting it? I mean, what were the chances she hadn’t seen it?
Indeed! However, when this thread appeared, I hadn't seen Star Wars yet. The planet hadn't moved into the correct position yet.
I'm still happy and can't wait to go again. Maybe IMAX???
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Jasmine, little cat with a big heart.
Posts: 18017 | From: 'Twixt the 'Glades and the Gulf | Registered: Aug 2001
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Mamacita
Lakefront liberal
# 3659
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sipech:
quote:
Originally posted by jedijudy:
Did anyone else think that Rey looks like Padme?
Why shouldn't she look like her grandmother?
Great-gran, more likely. Padme is Luke and Leia's grandmother.
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Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world’s grief. Do justly, now. Love mercy, now. Walk humbly, now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it.
Posts: 20761 | From: where the purple line ends | Registered: Dec 2002
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jedijudy
Organist of the Jedi Temple
# 333
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Posted
Actually, Padme is Luke and Leia's mom. Shmi is their grandma.
Feeling my inner geek roaring!
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Jasmine, little cat with a big heart.
Posts: 18017 | From: 'Twixt the 'Glades and the Gulf | Registered: Aug 2001
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toadstrike
Apprentice
# 18244
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Posted
It wasn't clear to me that Rey was Luke's daughter (although I suspected from the start it would turn out like that) but maybe I missed the relevant bit of the flashback thing going too fast for me.
Also when the ground was collapsing conveniently stopping short at Rey's feet I missed Kylo getting rescued but the reference to his continued training by Snoke.
What seemed odd to me was that she found her Jedi powers so fast having only just discovered them under Kylo's interrogation that she could overcome the stormtrooper (who I gather was a cameo by Daniel Craig) with a mind trick and get him to release her.
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Trudy Scrumptious
BBE Shieldmaiden
# 5647
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Posted
Lots of words coming up because I have to unload my many thoughts in a place where people are OK with spoilers ...
I loved, loved, loved it. And my inner feminist movie critic loved it too, because it's one of the very, very, very few action movies since the original Star Wars in 77 to move us a step forward (instead of several steps backward, as most movies since then have done) from badass Princess Leia, who was unusually capable and empowered for her time.
Rey is the MOST badass female action hero I've seen in this type of movie in awhile. She never needs to be rescued; when the guys do show up to rescue her she's already rescued herself. When she got knocked out in the final fight and Finn went after Kylo Ren with the light sabre, I thought, "Oh no! After doing so well for the whole movie, are they really going to have the heroine knocked unconscious and have the male lead be the one who fights in the final duel even though Rey is clearly the one in whom the Force is strong?" But they didn't. When she woke up and took the light sabre it was nothing short of awesome.
And during the scene with Rey and Maz where Maz tells Rey about the Force, I grabbed my daughter and said, "Movie passes the Bechdel test!!" It also did a great job representing women in lots of mundane background roles, from pilots to Stormtroopers. When a character's gender wasn't important, they didn't just automatically set "male" as the default, and that's much appreciated, I think, bu those of us who are watching to see how women are represented on the big screen.
I thought Han's death was totally appropriate, necessary and well-done. Of the three original (human) characters, he had by far the biggest role in this film, and I assume Ford told Abrams that he'd be willing to do it as a one-off. It was a great return and finale for that character and I loved everything -- Han being his old self, the Han/Leia relationship which was both satisfying and not, and the closure in that lovely final embrace. The way Han's relationship with Kylo Ren echoes (backwards) Luke's relationship with Vader (which has to be so hard for Han and Leia, because they RAISED this kid, and he still turned to the dark side). But his death was absolutely necessary, because Kylo Ren (also love the fact that his real name is Ben!) is shown as struggling with the choice between light and dark, and he has to do something absolutely, unequivocally evil to turn him to the dark side. What could be more effective than killing his father?
I liked that Kylo Ren wasn't a chilling dark lord like Vader, but a petulant teenager rebelling against his parents by trying super-hard to be a villain. (He reminds me a lot of teenage Anakin in the prequels, though played by a better actor, fortunately). I think the movie played that up and even had a bit of a laugh at his expense in the couple of scenes where he gets angry and basically has a temper tantrum slashing things with his light sabre ... the reactions of other characters in those scenes were priceless. I would assume this trilogy is basically going to be his redemption story as well as Rey's hero journey, and they had to take Ren to a pretty dark place quickly to make that story dramatic. So killing Han was the right thing to do from a story perspective, even though I loved seeing Harrison Ford as Han Solo onscreen again after all these years and hate that I'll never see him take on the role again.
I had a couple of nitpick-quibbles that did not destroy my enjoyment of the movie. First, I know some people complained that the awful prequels spent too much time on politics, but this one could have spent a little more time on politics -- like maybe three more sentences of dialogue to explain what was pretty confusing in the opening text-crawl. So, since the events of Return of the Jedi, presumably the New Republic has been ruling for awhile, right? Because the old Empire fell. And now this new group, the First Order, has risen up to challenge the Republic, and they're adopting the values and symbolism of the old Empire. OK. I get that. They're like neo-Nazis emulating the good old days of the Third Reich; that's believable.
But if that's the situation, why is there a "Resistance" fighting the First Order? The Resistance is allied with the Republic, but why are they resisting? Shouldn't it just BE the Republic trying to crush this upstart new group, the First Order? The Republic still holds power, right? A "resistance" group normally is trying to overthrow those in power; why would you resist against a bunch of rebels?
The only way I could figure it out (but it would have helped if this were actually in the movie rather than in my head) is that the First Order is a bit like ISIS (OK, so they're like neo-Nazis AND they're like ISIS) in that they're viewed as an offshoot rebel group but there are terrorities in which they hold power and control, and the Resistance is trying overthrow them within those territories, with help from the larger, more powerful Republic which has clearly lost control over those terrorities. That would make sense ... I think. But like I said, I could have used two or three more sentences to clarify that.
Also, super-dramatic to have Ren kill Han on top of that giant catwalk so we could see his body falling into the abyss, but ... are there no OH&S people on this First Order base??? Who puts a catwalk like that hundreds of metres above ... whatever is down below, without even a hint of a handrail? Are they trying to lose people?? Is it a sort of survival-of-the-fittest test?
I loved having Finn as a runaway storm trooper, but now thinking of the storm troopers as captured child soldiers raised for combat (a bit like the Unsullied in Game of Thrones) humanizes them quite a bit and makes me feel bad about how many of them get slaughtered. When they were just the white suits (or possibly clones in white suits) they seemed more robotic and less human, so you didn't have to have a lot of moral complexity around killing them. But having seen one question his role and rebel, now I wonder about all the rest!
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Books and things.
I lied. There are no things. Just books.
Posts: 7428 | From: Closer to Paris than I am to Vancouver | Registered: Mar 2004
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Trudy Scrumptious
BBE Shieldmaiden
# 5647
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by toadstrike:
It wasn't clear to me that Rey was Luke's daughter (although I suspected from the start it would turn out like that) but maybe I missed the relevant bit of the flashback thing going too fast for me.
Also when the ground was collapsing conveniently stopping short at Rey's feet I missed Kylo getting rescued but the reference to his continued training by Snoke.
What seemed odd to me was that she found her Jedi powers so fast having only just discovered them under Kylo's interrogation that she could overcome the stormtrooper (who I gather was a cameo by Daniel Craig) with a mind trick and get him to release her.
Is it in any way confirmed that Rey is Luke's daughter? I could totally see how they might be setting that up (and I do hope Luke finally got some lovin' in the years since RotJ ... Han and Leia obviously did), but I also hope it's not true. First, because I hope ALL the Force-power in this universe isn't concentrated in a single family line, because that would just be stupid, and I like the idea of Rey being some random, unrelated girl in whom the Force is strong. But also because I really felt, in the Kylo Ren/ Rey interrogation scene when he took off his mask, that they were setting up something definitely un-cousinly between those two. I'd like to think this series is going to move in the direction of Ren being redeemed by love, like Vader was, but instead of the love of family, it'll be the Love of a Good Woman (who hopefully is not his first cousin). But maybe I'm reading that wrong.
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Books and things.
I lied. There are no things. Just books.
Posts: 7428 | From: Closer to Paris than I am to Vancouver | Registered: Mar 2004
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jedijudy
Organist of the Jedi Temple
# 333
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Posted
I think Han dying mirrored Obi-Wan's death in some ways. The two deaths look to be new starts to the heroes' journey to fight evil. Both Luke and Rey were horrified to see a new father figure, someone they loved in spite of not knowing them long, cut down by people that the victims loved and missed.
Does that make sense?
I'm hoping to go with Daughter-Unit again on Christmas Eve to see it again! When she and I saw it Thursday evening, we were so excited that we couldn't keep the grins off our faces. Son-in-law wasn't quite as excited when we sat down in the theater, but by the end of the movie, he was almost as thrilled as we were. That's a huge recommendation, BTW.
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Jasmine, little cat with a big heart.
Posts: 18017 | From: 'Twixt the 'Glades and the Gulf | Registered: Aug 2001
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Trudy Scrumptious:
And during the scene with Rey and Maz where Maz tells Rey about the Force, I grabbed my daughter and said, "Movie passes the Bechdel test!!"
I'd never heard of this before you posted the link, but am taken aback by how many films still fail on that even in the second decade of the 21st century.
Anyway, back to the discussion. Sorry about Han, who was one of my favourite characters (as was Alec Guinness), but do carry on.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Trudy Scrumptious
BBE Shieldmaiden
# 5647
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
quote:
Originally posted by Trudy Scrumptious:
And during the scene with Rey and Maz where Maz tells Rey about the Force, I grabbed my daughter and said, "Movie passes the Bechdel test!!"
I'd never heard of this before you posted the link, but am taken aback by how many films still fail on that even in the second decade of the 21st century.
I think the scene with Maz actually illustrates why so many movies fail this very simple test and how easy a problem it is to fix. Even once you've decided that your movie has a badass female lead, it's still very easy for filmmakers to default to "male" for virtually every other role that doesn't specifically have to be female, so they could have ended up with Rey and Leia as the only speaking female characters. Mysterious alien cantina-owner who somehow (why?????) has Luke's lightsabre and instructs Rey in the wonders of the Force? That character could easily be either male or female, but because "male-as-default" is so ingrained in movie culture, it probably took a conscious effort on somebody's part to say, "Well, there's no reason that couldn't be a weird female alien creature, voiced by Lupita N'yongo." And so, inch by painful inch, does the film industry crawl forward into the actual world we're all living in where roughly half of us are females.
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Books and things.
I lied. There are no things. Just books.
Posts: 7428 | From: Closer to Paris than I am to Vancouver | Registered: Mar 2004
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
Nailed it. You don't have to make a movie all "woman powerrr!" you just have to mix women into the action a bit.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Jack o' the Green
Shipmate
# 11091
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Trudy Scrumptious:
Is it in any way confirmed that Rey is Luke's daughter? I could totally see how they might be setting that up (and I do hope Luke finally got some lovin' in the years since RotJ ...
In the novels (now deemed non-cannonical), Luke marries Mara Jade, a force user who previously worked for the Emperor. They seem to be going with some ideas in the novels, but not others, as Chewbacca dies in those leaving Han Solo to fall apart somewhat.
[ 20. December 2015, 20:22: Message edited by: Jack o' the Green ]
Posts: 3121 | From: Lancashire, England | Registered: Feb 2006
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Trudy Scrumptious:
And so, inch by painful inch, does the film industry crawl forward into the actual world we're all living in where roughly half of us are females.
The bit that gave me a similar reaction was when a random stormtrooper delivered a report to Ren - with a female voice.
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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fletcher christian
Mutinous Seadog
# 13919
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Posted
I remember going to the cinema to see Revenge of the Sith and the unbelievable hype surrounding the film's release and having to book the cinema because there were queues to get seats even a week after release. We all sat there in the dark waiting on it starting, ever so excited by the pictures we had seen of that Darth Maul face and the talk of acrobatic light sabre fights and new bright stars in leading roles. Oh how very quickly it all dissolved before us. By the time it ended there was a hushed silence in the cinema in which an unspoken silence screamed 'WTF was that?'
This time around, a mere three days after release I waltzed into the cinema and bought a ticket and sat in a theatre that was barely a quarter full. At the end there was a silence, but this time it was one of shock at just how damn good it was and how easy it was to pull it off. A mere mirror of the very first Star Wars that sets it all up beautifully for the next two movies. This silence screamed. 'Damn, that was bloody good.' It was the movie that should have been made, but sadly is marred by three spectacular steaming turds that turned the stomachs of all but the most die hard fans. I suspect people were expecting this to be total pants, hence the empty cinema. It struck me that it is in fact possible to kill off the greatest movie franchise of all time with three piss poor prequels.
My advice is, go see it if you haven't. It's a cracking good movie, just not entirely original. I love the way he played with and had fun with audience expectation and the taking the helmet off scene being the most effective. Gone is the shonky CGI overload; gone is the JarJar and co characters we all loved to hate; gone is the script that makes you laugh out loud unintentionally; gone is the bad hammy acting and plots that make no sense and gone - thank God - is Yoda having a hissy fit and bouncing around the room as if stuck in a pinball machine. That scene almost had me removed from the cinema because I laughed so much. Instead we have a decent plot, great characterisation, god effects and a story we actually care about.
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'God is love insaturable, love impossible to describe'
Staretz Silouan
Posts: 5235 | From: a prefecture | Registered: Jul 2008
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Jack o' the Green
Shipmate
# 11091
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by fletcher christian:
I remember going to the cinema to see Revenge of the Sith and the unbelievable hype surrounding the film's release and having to book the cinema because there were queues to get seats even a week after release. We all sat there in the dark waiting on it starting, ever so excited by the pictures we had seen of that Darth Maul face and the talk of acrobatic light sabre fights and new bright stars in leading roles.
I think you're confusing the times when George Lucus let you down - which isn't surprising since its happened so often in recent years!
Posts: 3121 | From: Lancashire, England | Registered: Feb 2006
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beatmenace
Shipmate
# 16955
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
The least convincing element for me was the baddie who I thought wasn’t nearly scary enough, even with the helmet on. Coming up with a baddie as scary as Darth Vader was always going to be a bit of a tall order, admittedly.
I don't think Kylo Ren is actually meant to be that scary. Its a quite cleverly done. He is basically a Darth Vader fanboy who never even got as far in his training as Anakin did. Remember Luke never got properly Jedi trained either, so probably didn't have much idea how to train a new bunch.
So Ren is basically a stroppy teenager who got the keys to the Ferarri. As a Force user he isn't actually that powerful but is the best (worst) that there is left.
Then Rey comes along who is a completely intuitive Force user, having been led along by Obi Wan (for it is his voice we hear in Rey's head) and we find out how limited Kylo Ren actually is, only having had enough rudimentary teaching to go to the dark side.
The character is much smarter than ' a budget Darth Vader'.
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"I'm the village idiot , aspiring to great things." (The Icicle Works)
Posts: 297 | From: Whitley Bay | Registered: Feb 2012
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Trudy Scrumptious
BBE Shieldmaiden
# 5647
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Posted
Yes, totally agree with that assessment of Kylo Ren.
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Books and things.
I lied. There are no things. Just books.
Posts: 7428 | From: Closer to Paris than I am to Vancouver | Registered: Mar 2004
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Prester John
Shipmate
# 5502
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Posted
I'm just happy a new Star Wars movie will be coming out every year for the next four years.
Posts: 884 | From: SF Bay Area | Registered: Feb 2004
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
At last found it in 2D and in English ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
As someone who watched A New Hope on the 90' screen at the Leicester Square Odeon, it's hard to beat the sheer sense of awe you got as a teenager entering the Star Wars universe for the first time.
I enjoyed all the nods to A New Hope but found it a lot more wearing than I had anticipated.
It's interesting to see how it reflects changes over the past 38 years; black lead actor, lead female roles - and ISIS-like massacres of entire villages ![[Frown]](frown.gif) . I note stormtroopers accompanying the movie release seem to have been disarmed so as not to worry us too much...
(oh - best moment? Spotting the Millenium Falcon under that tarp ![[Cool]](cool.gif) )
[ 23. December 2015, 22:04: Message edited by: Eutychus ]
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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Ricardus
Shipmate
# 8757
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Posted
After his strong opening scene I was disappointed Jeremy Corbyn didn't get more lines.
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Then the dog ran before, and coming as if he had brought the news, shewed his joy by his fawning and wagging his tail. -- Tobit 11:9 (Douai-Rheims)
Posts: 7247 | From: Liverpool, UK | Registered: Nov 2004
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jedijudy
Organist of the Jedi Temple
# 333
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Posted
Daughter-Unit and I are going to see it again tomorrow morning! After the all the younglings go back to school, I'll go see it in 3D at the IMAX. Unfortunately D-U can't go, because she'll get a migraine.
Not only am I excited to see Star Wars again, but I get to spend some time with my beloved daughter. The best of all worlds!
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Jasmine, little cat with a big heart.
Posts: 18017 | From: 'Twixt the 'Glades and the Gulf | Registered: Aug 2001
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balaam
Making an ass of myself
# 4543
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Posted
Finn a Stormtrooper? Nonsense, he shoots straight.
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Last ever sig ...
blog
Posts: 9049 | From: Hen Ogledd | Registered: May 2003
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Rosa Winkel
Saint Anger round my neck
# 11424
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Posted
It was interesting with Kylo Ren. Like someone said above, he lost his mystique when he took his helmet off; he looked like an upper-class twit. He obeyed what his father said quickly, in taking his helmet off. I was thinking "this is the big baddie, who's giving up so easily?"; then he killed his father and I was shocked. For me, that was a powerful moment.
My wife said that it was like parts 4-6 in that the film addressed a father/son relationship; this time though from the perspective of the father, not of the son.
A bit that was a bit like Matt-Smith-as-The-Doctor was when Fen and Rey were taking it in turns grabbing hands and running. Thankfully the film avoided the "ha, see how stronger/more clever the woman is" line that Doctor Who sometimes takes. Maybe for that reason, I could identify with Rey as a man; she has similarities to Luke and I liked her as well.
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The Disability and Jesus "Locked out for Lent" project
Posts: 3271 | From: Wrocław | Registered: May 2006
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
the scenes between Han and Leia... oh my.
"I saw him."
Perhaps it's because of my age or my stage in life, but sitting next to my husband, with our almost-grown sons on either side, there was something so powerful about those scenes, where they both looked so old, so full of emotion, so many words unsaid. A million lifetimes between them it seemed, such a powerful connection.
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
We celebrated Christmas in the ancient tradition of my people, by going to the cineplex and seeing STAR WARS. I do feel that the need to tread again the plot of the previous movie (a little bit is a hat tip, but the entire structure?) has made it a less good movie than it could be. If you insist that the drink have coconut and pineapple juice in it, it's going to taste like a pina colada, and there's no way around it.
And my husband and I agreed that they really need some fresh blood in their engineering departments. Yet one more planet-shaped death weapon with a fatal flaw, honestly.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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cattyish
Wuss in Boots
# 7829
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Posted
The BB8 origin thing. Here's one theory.
Cattyish, I enjoyed it and look forward to some development.
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...to know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived, this is to have succeeded.
Ralph Waldo Emerson
Posts: 1794 | From: Scotland | Registered: Jul 2004
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
Oh, and I found Baby Darth profoundly depressing. Villains should never be Wanna Bees. In a work of this type it is the antagonist that drives the entire story, and any failure or weakness pervades the entire work.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
Oh, I disagree entirely. There is no fixed reason why the villain has to be fully formed at the film's outset. When this part of the story starts, Kylo Ren is clearly well on the way to being the Big Bad, but he's not entirely there yet, and it makes the whole thing a lot more interesting when there's character development on the dark side as well as on the light. It's one of the few ways in which the story line of this movie is clearly distinguished from that of the original trilogy. Luke was a post-adolescent beginner hero at the start of Episode IV, facing an adult and completely evil bad guy in the form of Darth Vader. Rey, Finn and Kylo Ren are in the same generation, and it makes sense that as Rey and Finn are developing as heroes, Kylo Ren is developing as a villain.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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Trudy Scrumptious
BBE Shieldmaiden
# 5647
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Posted
Yes, I totally agree with that assessment, RuthW. I think Kylo Ren as an unformed would-be villain (who admits to still feeling a pull toward the light, though probably a bit less now after the whole patricide thing) is one of the things that makes this series potentially more interesting to me than the original.
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Books and things.
I lied. There are no things. Just books.
Posts: 7428 | From: Closer to Paris than I am to Vancouver | Registered: Mar 2004
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Soror Magna
Shipmate
# 9881
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
... And my husband and I agreed that they really need some fresh blood in their engineering departments. Yet one more planet-shaped death weapon with a fatal flaw, honestly.
To be fair, there are a limited number of shapes available. Star Trek has already used the maw and the cube. And phallic weapons have been done to death.
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"You come with me to room 1013 over at the hospital, I'll show you America. Terminal, crazy and mean." -- Tony Kushner, "Angels in America"
Posts: 5430 | From: Caprica City | Registered: Jul 2005
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Trudy Scrumptious:
Yes, I totally agree with that assessment, RuthW. I think Kylo Ren as an unformed would-be villain (who admits to still feeling a pull toward the light, though probably a bit less now after the whole patricide thing) is one of the things that makes this series potentially more interesting to me than the original.
Haven't seen it yet, but amongst my fan stuff I read thar Kylo Ren is played by Adam Driver, who in other work has struck me as an intelligent, invested actor. In particular, he seems to have a knack for moral ambiguity, so I look forward to seeing how he handles this.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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ArachnidinElmet
Shipmate
# 17346
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Trudy Scrumptious:
...I loved having Finn as a runaway storm trooper, but now thinking of the storm troopers as captured child soldiers raised for combat (a bit like the Unsullied in Game of Thrones) humanizes them quite a bit and makes me feel bad about how many of them get slaughtered. When they were just the white suits (or possibly clones in white suits) they seemed more robotic and less human, so you didn't have to have a lot of moral complexity around killing them. But having seen one question his role and rebel, now I wonder about all the rest!
I know what you mean, but I got the impression that this division of storm troopers was maybe a one-off experiment on the 'not-Death Star' from the way that the Domnall Gleeson character was defending 'his men'. I might have misread that entirely as it was a bit blink and you'll miss it.
ION, I really enjoyed the film. It had the lived-in feeling entirely missing from the shiny CGI of the prequels and the acting was better by some distance.
The friendship between Fin and Rey felt natural as did Han and Rey mutual admiration of each others pirating/piloting skills. Not to mention the funny bits were actually quite funny. Revolutionary!
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'If a pleasant, straight-forward life is not possible then one must try to wriggle through by subtle manoeuvres' - Kafka
Posts: 1887 | From: the rhubarb triangle | Registered: Sep 2012
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
I did enjoy the film. I think Rey is a great character, feisty, but not just a female version of a male lead - she has something of herself too. I love the way she insists that she doesn't need Fin to hold her hand when running.
It did have something of the feel of the original story*, which was a good thing - the original story is a classic, and has been repeated multiple times in multiple forms. It is always worth redoing, and it has been redone well. The sense of the story was primary, and good. Yes, there were similarities, but then the story is a recurring one.
I suppose the most disappointing part was the bar with a range of aliens - it was a chance to have all sorts of inexplicable aliens, lots of cool make up. But I am not sure it served another primary purpose.
*Confession - I never saw the original film until very much later. I am sure I have seen it, but I am not certain when I saw it.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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The Rogue
Shipmate
# 2275
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Posted
Just seen it with the family. We saw it in 3d and the only thing worthy of note was that one of the Star Destroyers was very pointy.
Generally I'm not bothered about 3d but it seems obligatory these days. I wonder if they use these kind of effects to disguise poor stories, scripts and acting. That was definitely not the case here. In my view.
Kylo Ren did seem like a mix between a juvenile Snape and Vector from Despicable Me but it will hopefully be interesting to see how he develops. Are there definitely going to be two more films?
I also loved the inter-reactions between Rey and Han. In fact that was when I first wondered about her being Luke's daughter. I agree that it would be nice if there was another family in the galaxy who raised Jedis. Did Kylo Ren sense the Force in Finn on the planet when the latter was starting to rebel?
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If everyone starts thinking outside the box does outside the box come back inside?
Posts: 2507 | From: Toton | Registered: Feb 2002
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ArachnidinElmet
Shipmate
# 17346
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Rogue:
... Did Kylo Ren sense the Force in Finn on the planet when the latter was starting to rebel?
It is very unusual to see someone without the force using a light sabre.
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'If a pleasant, straight-forward life is not possible then one must try to wriggle through by subtle manoeuvres' - Kafka
Posts: 1887 | From: the rhubarb triangle | Registered: Sep 2012
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