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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Advent candle liturgy
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bib
Shipmate
# 13074
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Posted
We haven't been particularly happy with the liturgy involved each week for the lighting of the Advent candles. Although it does the job, it isn't exactly inspiring. For those of you who practice this ceremony, what have you found to work the best? (We are an Anglo Catholic parish.)
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"My Lord, my Life, my Way, my End, accept the praise I bring"
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fletcher christian
Mutinous Seadog
# 13919
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Posted
Right at the very beginning the choir sings a sort of chant-like intro and congo sing a simple response. Then a sweetly smiling cherub or an unholy screeching terror under duress lights the candle(s) which is followed by a prayer specific to the latest candle lit and service continues as normal.
That kind of thing?
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'God is love insaturable, love impossible to describe'
Staretz Silouan
Posts: 5235 | From: a prefecture | Registered: Jul 2008
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Liturgylover
Shipmate
# 15711
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Posted
A little ditty that rhymes to The Holly and the Ivy.
Posts: 452 | From: North London | Registered: Jun 2010
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Siegfried
Ship's ferret
# 29
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Posted
Why not do the lighting during the singing of the appropriate "O" Antiphon?
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Siegfried
Life is just a bowl of cherries!
Posts: 5592 | From: Tallahassee, FL USA | Registered: May 2001
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Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278
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Posted
We just light the Advent candles before the people start arriving and extinguish them when the people have gone. No liturgy or anything. Just as with the Paschal candle in paschaltide, the impression is that they've been burning all day or week.
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
quote:
Originally posted by Siegfried:
Why not do the lighting during the singing of the appropriate "O" Antiphon?
Because the O antiphons don't start until the week before Christmas, by which time you will have lit 3 of the candles already.
Thank you -- you beat me to it.
We have the appropriate number of church school children join the procession and each lights a candle. We used to have a special prayer and/or reading but that has been dropped. (I don't know how they do it at the earlier service which is all older folks, probably the acolyte lights them.)
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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dj_ordinaire
Host
# 4643
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Liturgylover:
A little ditty that rhymes to The Holly and the Ivy.
I think I know the one you mean - I heard it in use at St. Mary's Primrose Hill and it strikes me as rather self-consciously 'English Use', pretty enough though...
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Flinging wide the gates...
Posts: 10335 | From: Hanging in the balance of the reality of man | Registered: Jun 2003
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Nick Tamen
Ship's Wayfaring Fool
# 15164
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
quote:
Originally posted by Siegfried:
Why not do the lighting during the singing of the appropriate "O" Antiphon?
Because the O antiphons don't start until the week before Christmas, by which time you will have lit 3 of the candles already.
Thank you -- you beat me to it.
Well, if by "the appropriate O Antiphon," one means an appropriate verse of "O Come, O Come Emmanuel," then things may be a bit different. I know of no churches of any stripe around here, at least, that restrict that hymn to Sapientia-tide, hymnals that note the appropriate day for each verse notwithstanding.
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The first thing God says to Moses is, "Take off your shoes." We are on holy ground. Hard to believe, but the truest thing I know. — Anne Lamott
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Og, King of Bashan
Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
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Posted
We get on fine without any special liturgy. This seems to be the practice in many Episcopal churches, and in fact, the Book of Occasional Services states that special prayers or ceremonial elaboration are "undesirable." I'm sure you could find Episcopal churches that do it (I know better than to make broad statements about what anyone does or believes in my denomination), but I have never attended a church that makes a special point out of it.
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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
After the Entrance Hymn and Greeting, Father asks a (pre-warned) member of the congo to come up and light the appropriate candle. A short prayer (courtesy of Common Worship - Times and Seasons is then said, after which we proceed with the Confession etc.
I.
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Adam.
Like as the
# 4991
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Nick Tamen:
Well, if by "the appropriate O Antiphon," one means an appropriate verse of "O Come, O Come Emmanuel," then things may be a bit different. I know of no churches of any stripe around here, at least, that restrict that hymn to Sapientia-tide, hymnals that note the appropriate day for each verse notwithstanding.
I do. I don't agree with them, but I know quite a few churches that don't sing O Come, O Come till the latter part of Advent. In fact, it's what was suggested to us at the Diocesan Advent Liturgy meeting last year.
On the first Sunday of Advent, we blessed the wreath as we lit the first candle. It seems to be the custom here that on subsequent Sundays, the appropriate candles are lit before Mass and there is no special ceremony. At my old parish, we had people process in with the lit candles, and put them in place during the Opening Hymn.
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Ave Crux, Spes Unica!
Preaching blog
Posts: 8164 | From: Notre Dame, IN | Registered: Sep 2003
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Liturgylover
Shipmate
# 15711
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by dj_ordinaire:
quote:
Originally posted by Liturgylover:
A little ditty that rhymes to The Holly and the Ivy.
I think I know the one you mean - I heard it in use at St. Mary's Primrose Hill and it strikes me as rather self-consciously 'English Use', pretty enough though...
Yes, it's not bad. Also used at Holy Redeemer Clerkenwell. There is another to the tune of Personent hodie
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
We are using a set of prayers for refugees this year.
Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
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Al Eluia
Inquisitor
# 864
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
We get on fine without any special liturgy. This seems to be the practice in many Episcopal churches, and in fact, the Book of Occasional Services states that special prayers or ceremonial elaboration are "undesirable." I'm sure you could find Episcopal churches that do it (I know better than to make broad statements about what anyone does or believes in my denomination), but I have never attended a church that makes a special point out of it.
We used to have a fairly wordy mini-liturgy at the candle lighting under our former rector. Currently we just have 1+ kids light them with the aid of the rector after the opening procession. No associated prayer/scripture/etc. We continue after that with the opening acclamation.
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Mockingbird
Mimus polyglottos navis
# 5818
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
We get on fine without any special liturgy. This seems to be the practice in many Episcopal churches, and in fact, the Book of Occasional Services states that special prayers or ceremonial elaboration are "undesirable."
The BOS approach is probably the best, and is the way we do it at my shack.
If you must have some rite, consider the following. The candles are best lit during either the opening dialog or during the anthem if there is one.
Officiant: Help, O King.
Congregation O Shepherd of Israel, Hosannah!
Then follows the Collect for the 1st Sunday in Advent. On the first Sunday of Advent, substitute some other prayer, possibly one modeled on Daniel 2:20-22.
An anthem may follow. Possibilities are the Matins responsory Aspiciens a longe or Psalm 80.
Then follows:
Officiant: Blessed is our God who inhabits the highest heavens, blessed is he, and blessed is the kingdom of our father David which is coming.
Congregation: Amen. Thanks be to God.
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Forþon we sealon efestan þas Easterlican þing to asmeagenne and to gehealdanne, þaet we magon cuman to þam Easterlican daege, þe aa byð, mid fullum glaedscipe and wynsumnysse and ecere blisse.
Posts: 1443 | From: Between Broken Bow and Black Mesa | Registered: Apr 2004
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sonata3
Shipmate
# 13653
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Posted
At my Lutheran parish, a family processes in with the altar party; after the greeting, we sing an extended, troped Kyrie (Marty Haugen's Mass of Remembrance); during the singing, a member of the family lights the appropriate candle(s). Seems to satisfy the congregation's need for a candle ritual, while not adding yet another element to the liturgy.
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"I prefer neurotic people; I like to hear rumblings beneath the surface." Stephen Sondheim
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Cameron PM
Shipmate
# 18142
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Posted
Before the children are called in for their little lesson, the priest says a prayer over the wreathe and has an elderly lady or gentleman or an appointed child light it, with little or no ceremony, other than a slight speech such as today at the Vigil - with matching rose/pink vestments, and focussed on the "rejoicing", the "Gaudete" of both the Virgin Mother and the Christian family; that we ought to be joyful because we know Christ.
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Your call.
Posts: 59 | From: Talamh an Eisc | Registered: Jun 2014
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Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815
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Posted
Procession in, after which the priest and a torchbearer move to the Advent wreath. 3 versicles, with the response "come, Lord Jesus", after which the torchbearer lights a taper from the near candle on the altar and lights the appropriate candle(s) on the wreath starting with purple 1. Then a short joint prayer of priest and people, everyone back into place for the service to continue in the Advent/Lent pattern.
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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
Posts: 7028 | From: Warrawee NSW Australia | Registered: Jun 2008
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Emendator Liturgia
Shipmate
# 17245
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Posted
In our part of ecclesia anglicana we have:
* the organ prelude
* sound of the shofar calling people to meditative quiet
* the choral prelude
then the Processional hymn leading the sanctuary party to the altar with the clergy kissing the altar (yes, we are quite Anglo-Catholic)then the celebrant and someone chosen from the congregation moves to the Advent wreath: by now we have a special mention of what candles have been lit on previous Sunday's (they are then re-lit) before some words about this Sunday's candle and a response from the congregation: for example for this Sunday:
Lighting of the Candle for Advent 3
Last Sunday we lit the candle of peace. We light it and the candle of hope again as we remember that Christ, who was born in Bethlehem, will come again to judge the world and bring it everlasting peace.
The first two purple candles are re-lit.
The Advent season encourages us to be joyful always; to pray continually and to give thanks in all circumstances; this is God's will promised to us in Jesus Christ.
Joy is like a light shining in a dark place. As we look at this candle we celebrate the joy we find in Jesus Christ.
We rejoice that 'humanity' here embraces people of diverse cultures - our Aboriginal peoples, and old and new settlers from a variety of backgrounds.
God of joy, we find great delight in the way you chose to share our humanity - born of a woman who glorified you. Strengthen us to glorify you in faith and peace and joy.
The rose candle is lit.
Each week we add a verse from David wood's fine words: 'Lift a candle' (sung to the tune Dix.) This week we added the verse:
3. Light a candle bright and tall
for the Joy this season brings.
Joy like fountains brimming full
through our world now let it ring.
Shine within our hearts today
come, O Joy, to us, we pray.
All then return to their place and the rest of the liturgy picks up from the Sentence of the Day. This simple little addition sets the tone for Advent and its readings and music, refocusing us for the changing tonal theme each week.
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Don't judge all Anglicans in Sydney by prevailing Diocesan standards!
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
We are using a set of prayers for refugees this year.
BTW they were written by US (formerly USPG)
I think we may have had the same one this morning.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
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venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Emendator Liturgia:
This simple little addition sets the tone for Advent and its readings and music, refocusing us for the changing tonal theme each week.
Well good on you for imagination and style and I hope you all enjoy it, but if that's a simple little liturgy...
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Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
Our problem this year is simply keeping the candles alight. We bought them from our usual Reputable Supplier, but they keep going out. ![[Mad]](angryfire.gif)
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Emendator Liturgia
Shipmate
# 17245
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Posted
quote:
Well good on you for imagination and style and I hope you all enjoy it, but if that's a simple little liturgy...
Given that the candle part takes about 2 minutes from start to end (out of a hrs service), we reckon its a small part - and 'sounds' much more complex on paper than when done.
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Don't judge all Anglicans in Sydney by prevailing Diocesan standards!
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venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
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Posted
It was having three items even before the opening hymn that struck me as elaborate, but I suppose it may not when actually experienced.
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Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
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Graven Image
Shipmate
# 8755
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Posted
The candles are lit before the service starts and put out after everyone leaves. As wreath is hung from the rafters and must be lowered this works well. ![[Votive]](graemlins/votive.gif)
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Cranmer's baggage*
Shipmate
# 4937
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Posted
We light the candles from the previous weeks bafore the service. Presider then lights the new candle and prays a brief prayer appropriate to the theme of the day, after which the service continues as normally.
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Eschew obfuscation!
Posts: 729 | From: the antipodes | Registered: Sep 2003
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venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
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Posted
If the wreath is lit at the end of an entrance hymn at a eucharist, please can the greeting come first.
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Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
That is indeed our practice, and yes, the greeting should always come first!
I.
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
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Posted
So few clergy understand that.
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Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
Possibly so in your tradition, but I can hardly think of a Nonconformist service which doesn't begin with a greeting.
We have a brief Greeting, followed by a few moments for quiet reflection, then a Call to Worship and into the first hymn.
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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seasick
...over the edge
# 48
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Posted
Yes but for us non-conformists a greeting usually means "Good morning" or the like whereas for the Anglo-Catholics it means "The Lord be with you" or something like that.
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We believe there is, and always was, in every Christian Church, ... an outward priesthood, ordained by Jesus Christ, and an outward sacrifice offered therein. - John Wesley
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venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
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Posted
For Anglicans, if they are using Common Worship, and RCs.
And a liturgical greeting is not the minister welcoming the passive congregation. The congregational response is an integral part of the greeting.
The theory is that the minister and the congregation recogise each other as both necessary to constitute the church in that place.
[ 15. December 2015, 23:42: Message edited by: venbede ]
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Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
If the wreath is lit at the end of an entrance hymn at a eucharist, please can the greeting come first.
I'm just curious why the greeting should come before lighting the Advent candles, but not before lighting any other candles in the Sanctuary, which are presumably lit before the service starts.
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
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Posted
I'm assuming the Advent wreath is lit with some prayer or appropriate words.
In which case it is part of the service and should come after the assembly is formed by the liturgical greeting.
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Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
Posts: 3201 | From: An historic market town nestling in the folds of Surrey's rolling North Downs, | Registered: Sep 2011
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Nick Tamen
Ship's Wayfaring Fool
# 15164
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
I'm assuming the Advent wreath is lit with some prayer or appropriate words.
In which case it is part of the service and should come after the assembly is formed by the liturgical greeting.
But then why shouldn't the liturgical greeting come before the hymn as well? (I'm really not trying to be flippant. I've just never quite understood the idea in some liturgies that the entrance and closing hymn are more or less "outside" the liturgy, coming before the greeting and after the dismissal. Just trying to understand better.)
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The first thing God says to Moses is, "Take off your shoes." We are on holy ground. Hard to believe, but the truest thing I know. — Anne Lamott
Posts: 2833 | From: On heaven-crammed earth | Registered: Sep 2009
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venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
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Posted
The hymn accompanies the entrance of the ministers and is started by the congregation before they enter.
The first words of the presiding minister after s/he enters are the greeting to which the congregation, as the priestly people of God, respond.
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Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
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Nick Tamen
Ship's Wayfaring Fool
# 15164
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
The hymn accompanies the entrance of the ministers and is started by the congregation before they enter.
The first words of the presiding minister after s/he enters are the greeting to which the congregation, as the priestly people of God, respond.
No, I understand that. My question is "why?" If the understanding of the greeting is that it forms the assembly, then why doesn't the assembly need to be formed before singing (praying?) the entrance hymn? Why does the assembly continue its worship by singing a hymn after being dismissed?
In my tradition, the greeting and call to worship are the first words of the service and occur before the first hymn. (If those presiding are processing, they speak these portions from the door of the church.) Likewise, the benediction/blessing and dismissal occur after the last hymn. This puts the hymns "within the brackets," so to speak, of the assembly's formation and dismissal.
I'm not meaning to be critical. It just seems to me that the understanding of the greeting forming the assembly and starting the liturgy, coupled with its placement after the entrance hymn, places the entrance hymn outside the liturgy, even though it is an act of praise of the assembly. So, I'm trying to understand the rationale behind the order.
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The first thing God says to Moses is, "Take off your shoes." We are on holy ground. Hard to believe, but the truest thing I know. — Anne Lamott
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Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Nick Tamen:
But then why shouldn't the liturgical greeting come before the hymn as well? (I'm really not trying to be flippant. I've just never quite understood the idea in some liturgies that the entrance and closing hymn are more or less "outside" the liturgy, coming before the greeting and after the dismissal. Just trying to understand better.)
Then there's our parish, where the entrance hymn covers the entrance of the altar party from the sacristy and the sprinkling of the altar, ministers, and faithful; then the Introit chant covers the sacred ministers' formal entrance up the center aisle. We don't use the Asperges chant or texts. Looks strange to visitors at first because the ministers just came in and then it looks like they're leaving (during the sprinkling).
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venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
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Posted
My experience in France and Italy is that people start leaving directly after the dismissal. There is a good case for having no recessional hymn as the liturgy has finished.
As for the congregational entrance hymn - it's as fitting for them to sing together in preparation as it is for them to pray before the start of the service.
The full assembly of the people of God comes into being, on this model, when the priest - embodying the wider church by virtue of their ordination - and the body of baptized recognize each other.
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Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
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georgiaboy
Shipmate
# 11294
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Posted
This is not based on known facts, as such, but from observation over a number of years.
Before the RC liturgy was reformed (and vernacular-ized) following V2, any participatory peoples-language bits were technically not part of the liturgy and were not allowed to intrude upon it. (I know it was done at some times and places, but that was the rule.) Therefore, if one wanted a hymn at beginning or end of the mass, it had to be outside the mass, i.e., before the first salutation and after the blessing/dismissal/last gospel. Thus the habit/tradiiton grew up.
Anglican rites, though less rigorous, likewise made no provision for hymns in the 1549-1662 prayer books (except for the Veni creator at ordinations).
Non-conformist and continental reformed churches likely modeled their worship to some extent on existing liturgical models.
And of course this soon became 'That's the way we've always done it!' ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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You can't retire from a calling.
Posts: 1675 | From: saint meinrad, IN | Registered: Apr 2006
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Nick Tamen
Ship's Wayfaring Fool
# 15164
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
As for the congregational entrance hymn - it's as fitting for them to sing together in preparation as it is for them to pray before the start of the service.
Except that in all cases I've ever experienced, they are praying individually, not as a group. They are singing, however, as a group.
quote:
The full assembly of the people of God comes into being, on this model, when the priest - embodying the wider church by virtue of their ordination - and the body of baptized recognize each other.
Yes, again I get that that is the premise of this model. I promise, I'm really not trying to be obstreperous, but let me try to get at my question this way: What is the reason (or is there a reason) that leads to the arrangement that has the entrance hymn being sung before the assembly is formed rather than after? Or am I maybe missing something relevant that is obvious to others, such as perhaps an expectation that the clergy are not singing the entrance hymn, making it solely an act of the body of the baptized? Is the entrance hymn viewed as belonging only to the body of the baptized and not to the clergy?
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The first thing God says to Moses is, "Take off your shoes." We are on holy ground. Hard to believe, but the truest thing I know. — Anne Lamott
Posts: 2833 | From: On heaven-crammed earth | Registered: Sep 2009
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Nick Tamen
Ship's Wayfaring Fool
# 15164
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Posted
Thanks georgiaboy. I guess that may be the history that explains it. It does raise another question for me—the relationship between the modern entrance hymn and the introit—but that would go even further off-topic than has already gone.
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The first thing God says to Moses is, "Take off your shoes." We are on holy ground. Hard to believe, but the truest thing I know. — Anne Lamott
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Nick Tamen:
an expectation that the clergy are not singing the entrance hymn, making it solely an act of the body of the baptized? Is the entrance hymn viewed as belonging only to the body of the baptized and not to the clergy?
It's to do with history.
In times of persecution, people came to the assembly in small groups so as not to attract the attention of the police.
They'd sing quietly while they were waiting for the bishop, who'd then say the collect (because everyone was now collected together.)
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Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
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venbede
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# 16669
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Posted
Nick – I realise you’re not trying to be argumentative. Thank you.
One more go, and then I’ll stop flogging this issue.
Think of the entrance hymn/introit as a gathering song – the congregation preparing themselves singing together as they have prayed individually.
Two subsidiary points.
I used to go to a church where the priest processed in with a hymn book joining in singing the entrance hymn. I thought he was muscling in on our part of the liturgy.
I am building a very high view of the laity on this – far from a liturgical approach being clericalist, it is the opposite. While allowing the essential part of the ordained ministry, it allows the congregation as a whole (and not just individual articulate members) to participate fully, which as the body of Christ and the priestly people they should.
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Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
Posts: 3201 | From: An historic market town nestling in the folds of Surrey's rolling North Downs, | Registered: Sep 2011
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Forthview
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# 12376
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Posted
Introit/Entrance Hymn.
In the pre Vatican 2 form of the Roman Mass the entrance of the priest and sacred ministers was without singing - though possibly with organ music.
The Introit Psalm verses would be sung while the priest and ministers were saying the preparatory prayers at the foot of the altar.
Usually a Sunday Sung Mass would begin with the sprinkling ceremony where once again the priest and ministers would enter quietly and the priest would begin with 'Asperges me' then taken up by the choir or people.After this ceremony the Mass would proceed with the Introit being sung as before.
One time when there would be singing would be at the entrance of a bishop who would be received at the entrance to the church and who would go in procession to the sanctuary while the choir sang 'Ecce Sacerdos Magnus' or 'Sacerdos et Pontifex,virtutum optifex'
Since Vatican 2 the Introit has often been given the name 'Entrance chant' and is sometimes sung at the entrance of the priest and ministers.
In ordinary parishes it is usually replaced nowadays by an Entrance Hymn.
Even when a bishop is present he would normally enter to the Entrance Hymn.I haven't heard the Ecce Sacerdos Magnus for over 50 years,though one still hears 'Tu es Petrus' as an entrance chant for the Bishop of Rome.
Posts: 3444 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2007
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venbede
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# 16669
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Nick Tamen:
—the relationship between the modern entrance hymn and the introit—but that would go even further off-topic than has already gone.
The entrance hymn is the introit.
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Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
Posts: 3201 | From: An historic market town nestling in the folds of Surrey's rolling North Downs, | Registered: Sep 2011
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venbede
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# 16669
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Posted
Whoops, double posted with Forthview, who made the same point.
I must get on with the Christmas cards rather than spending so much time here.
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Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
Posts: 3201 | From: An historic market town nestling in the folds of Surrey's rolling North Downs, | Registered: Sep 2011
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