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» Ship of Fools   » Community discussion   » Heaven   » Kan yu speell? (Page 3)

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Source: (consider it) Thread: Kan yu speell?
Karl: Liberal Backslider
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# 76

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Not sure how else you'd say khaki. And Tuesday is Chewsday to me.

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Might as well ask the bloody cat.

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Gill H

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In the US it is often pronounced kakky, as in ‘Check out my new kakky pants’ which reduces passing Brits to hysterical laughter.

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*sigh* We can’t all be Alan Cresswell.

- Lyda Rose

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Golden Key
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Boogie--

quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
But, of course, Ikea isn’t an English word and us English do so like to pronounce things in our own sweet way [Smile]

Like various forms of "contribute". The US puts the primary stress on the second syllable. You folks evidently put it on the first syllable.
[Ultra confused]

Ye olde "two nations separated by a common language".
[Biased]

--------------------
Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

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Golden Key
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# 1468

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quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
My friend's surname is Fetherstonhaugh - which of course you all know is pronounced Fanshaw.

There was an episode of "Nanny & The Professor" where the British nanny explained this kind of thing. She had a relative named Chomandley Featherstoneshaw.*

It was pronounced "Chumley Fenshaw".

*Spelling approximate.

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

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Gill H

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As we learned in the fascinating BBC series on IKEA last night, it isn’t a real word. It’s based on the founder’s initials IK. So I guess you can pronounce it any way you wish.

I usually go for Ai-kee-a based on the Mitch Benn ‘Viking metal’ song.

IKEA - Mitch Benn

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*sigh* We can’t all be Alan Cresswell.

- Lyda Rose

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Enoch
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quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
There was an episode of "Nanny & The Professor" where the British nanny explained this kind of thing. She had a relative named Chomandley Featherstoneshaw.*

It was pronounced "Chumley Fenshaw".

*Spelling approximate.

It's more usually spelt 'Cholmondley'. People have been known to joke about a fictitious person, who inherited the name, but alas only spelt 'Chumley'. And Featherstonehaugh is usually pronounced 'Fanshaw', not 'Fenshaw'.

My family also joked about another fictitious person who pronounced their name as 'Mrs Siddy-Bowtahm', with the stress on the last syllable.

Yes, as a warning to USians, 'Check out my new kakky pants’ would imply to British ears, a different shade of brown and a very embarrassing accident, one to which most people would not want to draw attention.

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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson

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John3000
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I enjoyed the picture of the boldly titled "Remember that you are butt dust" service booklet doing the rounds on twitter this morning.
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balaam

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I can't compete with kakky pants or butt dust.

I use one of the hidden functions of Google regularly. The define: function.

I have already used it in my blog this morning over the s or c in practi*e. It works by typing "define:word into Google, which then comes out with the definition.

Of course (not of coarse) I needed the word practise. I never fail to get that one wrong.

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Last ever sig ...

blog

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Leorning Cniht
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This weekend an American friend was running round in a panic asking "Have you seen Erin? We need Erin!", and I'm looking at her in a confused fashion and thinking "we don't have an Erin in our church. Is this a new person I don't know?"

Turns out she was looking for Aaron.

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L'organist
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IKEA (I-kay-yah) comes from:
Ingvar
Kamprad [who grew up in]
Elmtaryd [farm in]
Agunnaryd

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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet

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Martha
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I am usually a good speller but I always have to pause when spelling "broccoli" and think 1 C, 2 L's? Or 2 C's, 1 L?

I know brocolli is wrong when I've written it, but I still want to write it every time.

And it took a dictionary to convince me I was wrong about dessicate.

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Tree Bee

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Agree about broccoli. Have convinced myself it doesn’t really matter how I spell it on my shopping list.
I get in a speeling tangle over exercise, exited and excited. [Hot and Hormonal]

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"Any fool can make something complicated. It takes a genius to make it simple."
— Woody Guthrie
http://saysaysay54.wordpress.com

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balaam

Making an ass of myself
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quote:
Originally posted by Tree Bee:
I get in a speeling tangle over exercise, exited and excited. [Hot and Hormonal]

C after the X every time for me too. [Roll Eyes]

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Last ever sig ...

blog

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Pigwidgeon

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quote:
Originally posted by balaam:
quote:
Originally posted by Tree Bee:
I get in a speeling tangle over exercise, exited and excited. [Hot and Hormonal]

C after the X every time for me too. [Roll Eyes]
The word "sheriff" -- I can never remember if it's two Rs or two Fs.

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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf

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aliehs
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QUOTE FROM A CORRESPONDENT ON MESSENGER:


"STUFF THE INTERNMENT" and "SCREEN MUNCH".

She is an American.
What she meant was :
"Use the internet" and "Take a photo of the screen."

Quite like the idea of stuffing the Interment. And screen munch has a certain ring to it!

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Now I see through a glass darkly. Maybe I should clean my specs.
sld2A

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Gill H

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Screen Munch sounds like one of those 'Here's some crazy stuff we found on TV' programmes.

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*sigh* We can’t all be Alan Cresswell.

- Lyda Rose

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L'organist
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posted by Martha
quote:
I know brocolli is wrong when I've written it, but I still want to write it every time.
You probably don't need to write it at all.

What most in the UK call brocolli is actually calabrese whereas real broccoli looks like this.

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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet

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bib
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I have always understood that the calabrese is broccoli whereas the other specimens are known as broccolini. Well, that is how we refer to them where I live. I like broccoli but dislike broccolini.

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"My Lord, my Life, my Way, my End, accept the praise I bring"

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Baptist Trainfan
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Never heard of broccolini - it sounds like a nasty infection in one's lungs.
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no prophet's flag is set so...

Proceed to see sea
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They're all cruciform vegetables, List here. Variations on one basic plant, where leaves and stems etc are emphasized in the species. Cruciform means cross-shaped and refers to the flowers. I have never seen a broc flower myself.
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churchgeek

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quote:
Originally posted by Piglet:
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
... I think "hte" should be in the dictionary - I can spell it, I just can't type it.

Along with tge, which is how it almost always comes out when I'm using the Tablet, causing swearing.
Clearly you'll need to give up that word for Lent. I don't mean the swear words so much as the one that causes them.

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I reserve the right to change my mind.

My article on the Virgin of Vladimir

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churchgeek

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The only way I can keep my deserts and desserts straight is that you might want to go for seconds if you have dessert!

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I reserve the right to change my mind.

My article on the Virgin of Vladimir

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churchgeek

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quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
They're all cruciform vegetables, List here. Variations on one basic plant, where leaves and stems etc are emphasized in the species. Cruciform means cross-shaped and refers to the flowers. I have never seen a broc flower myself.

Whew, I'm not the only one to write "cruciform" instead of "cruciferous" when referring to these vegetables! I did that once on a post somewhere. No one noticed, but I was embarrassed. Am I wrong to think "cruciform" is incorrect for the vegetable, then?

I mean, obviously I speak about churches more frequently than about vegetables! [Razz]

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I reserve the right to change my mind.

My article on the Virgin of Vladimir

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no prophet's flag is set so...

Proceed to see sea
# 15560

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That's a good question!

Re the other ones, hte etc. "doe snot" No idea if this is a problem for deer.

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Pigwidgeon

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quote:
Originally posted by churchgeek:
The only way I can keep my deserts and desserts straight is that you might want to go for seconds if you have dessert!

Someone once suggested that desserts are "So Sweet."

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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf

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Hedgehog

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I'm not sure if this has been mentioned before, but I often want to spell "speech" as "speach" because, you know, it is "speak" not "speek."

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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'

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cliffdweller
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quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
This weekend an American friend was running round in a panic asking "Have you seen Erin? We need Erin!", and I'm looking at her in a confused fashion and thinking "we don't have an Erin in our church. Is this a new person I don't know?"

Turns out she was looking for Aaron.

OK, I'm American. How do you pronounce them differently?

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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner

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cliffdweller
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For some reason the most common misspelling I find in my students' papers is "defiantly" when they mean "definitely". So I'll get things like, "I am defiantly confused about this" or "I am defiantly unsure about faith". I always picture them standing firmly, feet planted, fists upraised as they shout "I DON'T KNOW, DAMN IT!"

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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner

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Gill H

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quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
This weekend an American friend was running round in a panic asking "Have you seen Erin? We need Erin!", and I'm looking at her in a confused fashion and thinking "we don't have an Erin in our church. Is this a new person I don't know?"

Turns out she was looking for Aaron.

OK, I'm American. How do you pronounce them differently?
Erin = Erin
Aaron = air-on

--------------------
*sigh* We can’t all be Alan Cresswell.

- Lyda Rose

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Gracious rebel

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Another frequently heard pronunciation of Aaron in the UK is the same as the Scottish island of Arran.

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Fancy a break beside the sea in Suffolk? Visit my website

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cliffdweller
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quote:
Originally posted by Gill H:
quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
This weekend an American friend was running round in a panic asking "Have you seen Erin? We need Erin!", and I'm looking at her in a confused fashion and thinking "we don't have an Erin in our church. Is this a new person I don't know?"

Turns out she was looking for Aaron.

OK, I'm American. How do you pronounce them differently?
Erin = Erin
Aaron = air-on

Not helpful. "Air-on" is how we would pronounce "Erin".

--------------------
"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner

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Leorning Cniht
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quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
OK, I'm American. How do you pronounce them differently?

In my south of England accent, Aaron is "air-on", and Erin is a short E followed by "rin". Erin's vowels are the same as in denim.

If I can get the IPA right, I say Aaron as something like /ˈɛːɹ.ən/ or maybe /ˈɛəɹ.ən/and Erin as /ˈɛ.ɹɪn/. My American friend was saying /ˈɛɹ.ən/.

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Golden Key
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In my US experience:

Erin = AIR-in or AIR-un

Aaron =AIR-un (or sometimes AIR-in)

IME, they're pronounced *more or less* the same, unless the wearer of the name pronounces it according to another language. (E.g., Irish, Hebrew.)

--------------------
Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

Posts: 18594 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Gill H

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LC said it perfectly. Erin would be the same vowels as denim.

--------------------
*sigh* We can’t all be Alan Cresswell.

- Lyda Rose

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aliehs
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I agree with the foregoing [or forgoing?] no, the aforesaid comments:

In Aust: Erin is pronounced E as in egg, and rin as in ring but with out the g.

Aaron is pronounced either Air-on or occasionally A as in apple, and Ron as in "Oh Ron" from The Glums -a serial within the old radio series "Take it from Here" with June Whitfield, Jimmy Edwards and Dick Bentley. Alright, so I am old!

The question in my mind is how the young people are ever going to learn spelling when their own names are such a muddle.

I can think of at least 5 versions of Michael, including Miceal, Mykel, Mikel, Michel, Micheal, etc.
And as for the made up names. One day I am sure I will encounter Zaphod, but possibly not Beetlebrox. What happened to the days when priests refused to baptise children with outlandish names? I suppose that these children aren't christened any way.

I really do know one little boy called Tex Huckleberry. Poor thing. And another called Kale like the vegetable.

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Now I see through a glass darkly. Maybe I should clean my specs.
sld2A

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la vie en rouge
Parisienne
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In France the authorities are allowed to refuse to register a name if they think it's likely to cause suffering to the person.

I’m guessing it needs to be something quite bad for them to refuse, because there are still plenty of people called ridiculous things.

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Rent my holiday home in the South of France

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Sioni Sais
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quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
In my US experience:

Erin = AIR-in or AIR-un

Aaron =AIR-un (or sometimes AIR-in)

IME, they're pronounced *more or less* the same, unless the wearer of the name pronounces it according to another language. (E.g., Irish, Hebrew.)

I think that's the root of the problem. Names are taken from a variety of cultures which have different rules for language and pronunciation. Comparing "John" around the British Isles gives quite a variety: John, Sean, Sion and Ian: I'm sure there are others (and I haven't interfered with spelling yet) and that is all before one crosses the channel!

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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wild haggis
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Is it any wonder that we dyslexics have problems with English!

I never got more than 0/10 (usually -6 to -10!) in dictation at school. I was marked down from an A to a B in my Higher (A Level) English because of spelling! I'm not thick, in spite of being labelled as such, because I couldn't spell.

Good spelling is not a mark of intelligence - just of memorisation. Bad spelling didn't stop me ending up with a post-grad masters from one of the top unis in Britain. So spelling isn't everything.

In its historic development, English is a mixture of all sorts of languages. No wonder it is so difficult to spell.

I'm learning Welsh. Once you have grasped the phonics, different from English sound values, the words say as they are written (unlike English). Easy. It's the grammar and mutations that cause problems!!

Teachers of young children will tell you of the difficulties in teaching their pupils to read in English - especially children who have very logical brains. One phoneme will say one sound in one word but a completely different sound in another. As to diphthongs! I won't go there!

There are so many exceptions to the rules in English. You need to have both phonics and "look and say"/"red words"/exceptions that you just have to memorise.
Just think about: there/their/they're
Eek........................
40 years of teaching primary kids has turned my hair bright red!!!

No wonder foreigners find English so difficult.

Some languages, have a totally logical system of phonetics and one sound will have the same value in every word - unless it is a "loan word" from another language. So easy. Not so English.

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wild haggis

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Enoch
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# 14322

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I'd say that usual UK usage is,

Erin = girl's name that is also a poetic name for 'Ireland', as in 'Isle of Erin'. Pronounced as Gill H, Leorning Cniht and Alieh have described.

Aaron = boy's name, brother of Moses, again pronounced as Gill H, Leorning Cniht and Alieh have described except that for clarity's sake, I'd say that the 'o' is usually a schwa, ǝ.

Arron = boy's name, sometimes spelt Aron, meaning and derivation unclear. It may be a corruption of Aaron or may be a misspelling of either the Scottish island (spelt Arran) or the Irish ones (Aran). Pronounced with a short 'a' and rhymes with Darren. The second syllable I think is universally ǝ, as it is in Darren.

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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson

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Enoch
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# 14322

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Wild Haggis, you posted while I was writing my post.

I agree with you that English spelling is a mess, and I'm not dyslexic. However, I think there may be a reason, apart from habit, why it may have remained that way.

I get the impression that compared with some other languages, English is quite strongly stressed. In unstressed syllables, the vowel almost disappears. Quite often, that also changes the pronunciation of the consonants round it. This means that quite a lot of words which are entirely regularly formed out of other words by having prefixes or endings put on them, might not look all that similar to the root word if they were spelt phonetically.

After all, Welsh does spell the mutations correctly, but everyone I've ever known who has learnt Welsh has complained that they are really difficult.

Although English speakers think English doesn't inflect all that much, it does go in quite a lot for adding prefixes like 'un', 'non', 'anti' and suffixes like 'ly', 'ify' 'ation', and 'ition'. It also strings them together like 'ification', and 'ingly'.

I suspect that phonetic spelling might make writing easier, but would make reading harder. It would perhaps be easier physically to read the words aloud from the page, but it could make it quite difficult to understand them at the same time, or to read them silently. It might make it very hard to guess what an unfamiliar long word meant.

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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson

Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008  |  IP: Logged
cliffdweller
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# 13338

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Among the papers I was grading today was one that was rife with spelling errors-- most of them homophones or near homophones-- to the tune of 7-8 per paragraph. I finally figured out the student must have written it on s tablet with autocorrect. Most hilarious was "chaotic church" for Catholic Church

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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner

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aliehs
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# 18878

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"chaotic church" ? As opposed to "messy church" ? which I see is on at my local Parish this Sunday at 9.30a.m.It's a family affair.


8 a.m. Eucharist here I come

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Now I see through a glass darkly. Maybe I should clean my specs.
sld2A

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wild haggis
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# 15555

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Thank you Enoch. I agree with you. English does inflect.

Welsh mutations: some are phonetically logical but it's remembering to put them in orally! (Reminds me must go and do my daily Welsh diary to help me learn................!)

Spelling who needs it with texting nowadays anyway!!! So says my dyslexic son.

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wild haggis

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wild haggis
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# 15555

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Bye the bye.
Enoch and anyone else in the area - did you feel the earthquack this afternoon?

Gosh talk about spelling - totally unintentionally (honest) I have written earth quack!!!!!
There you go spelling!

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wild haggis

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Honest Ron Bacardi
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# 38

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Around Elizabethan times, English really was pronounced much closer to the way it is spelled, even though orthography hadn't really settled down at that point. The real problem for our age is the shift in pronunciation.

I guess there is no guarantee it won't go on changing, which raises the interesting point that even if we made it to be spelled phonetically accurate now, this discussion would nprobably have to take place all over again in 450 years time.

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Anglo-Cthulhic

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jacobsen

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# 14998

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HRB, that is a cheeringly optimistic comment from one who lives in a universe which includes the Trump family. [Ultra confused]

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But God, holding a candle, looks for all who wander, all who search. - Shifra Alon
Beauty fades, dumb is forever-Judge Judy
The man who made time, made plenty.

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aliehs
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# 18878

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I think HRB must be right; that the language is constantly evolving. Our Australian Macquarie Dictionary lists the newest 100 words that now qualify for inclusion year by year, and a similar list of words whose usage has dwindled to nothingness. Most of the new terms appear to be tech related or derive from definitions as one man's stickers youth culture.
Already there are problems; but was ever thus.

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sld2A

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Enoch
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# 14322

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quote:
Originally posted by wild haggis:
Bye the bye.
Enoch and anyone else in the area - did you feel the earthquack this afternoon?

Gosh talk about spelling - totally unintentionally (honest) I have written earth quack!!!!!
There you go spelling!

I missed it as I was outside in the street at the time. People indoors felt it quite pronouncedly. One friend said it was more of a shake than the Lincolnshire one a few years ago was here. My son felt it markedly in Cardiff and was worried that it was a terrorism incident of some sort, but he was in a fairly confined space, and realised people round about outside hadn't noticed anything.

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Karl: Liberal Backslider
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# 76

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Spelling was already non-phonetic in Shakespeare's time; a modern English speaker would have little difficulty with Elizabethan English. Now Chaucer - we even mispronounce his name because of language change; the first syllable should rhyme with Modern Eng. Cow. On the tangent the mutations are a non-issue to me compared with unpredictable gender, plurals and verb stem vs. the verb-noun (dweud/dywed-, rhedeg/rhed- cael/caf-/caw-) etc. My mind likes predictability and consistency.

[ 18. February 2018, 08:53: Message edited by: Karl: Liberal Backslider ]

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Might as well ask the bloody cat.

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geroff
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# 3882

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A bit of a tangent perhaps, but in the early days of spellcheckers I had a secretary, who was terrible at spelling, that used to add her spellings to the dictionary. Another colleague used to have to correct the dictionary every evening after she had gone home! (This is at a date when there was just one computer in our architects office, so probably 1988, Word Perfect?)

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"The first principle in science is to invent something nice to look at and then decide what it can do." Rowland Emett 1906-1990

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