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Source: (consider it) Thread: Kellyanne Conway
Twilight

Puddleglum's sister
# 2832

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I think she deserves her own thread. She is the World's Master Champion at the Straw Man Argument. She was hugely influential in getting Trump elected by rewording every bad thing he did into something lesser and more forgivable. She was the first to chuckle fondly over Trump's lascivious words on the bus and call it "locker room talk."

A few days ago she was everywhere you looked attacking Meryl Streep for her failure to defend the disabled from the four criminals who kidnapped and tortured a disabled man. This was in response to Streep's words at the Golden Globe Awards about how sad it was to have a President elect who mocked disabled people.

I constantly come across clips of her on YouTube, posted by her fans with captions like, "Kellyanne OWNS Joy Behar." The clip will then show Conway doing her usual straw man thing but all Trump's followers hear is a soundbite they can use at the job to defend their man.

Here she is with Anderson Cooper. The poor man is trying to argue logically with someone who has long since eschewed logic as an annoying habit that cramps her style. It is, in once sense, as funny as the old George Burns and Gracie Allen routines, but mostly it's just a tragic indication of the state of the country's mind.
Kellyanne

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Stercus Tauri
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# 16668

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Known around here as Barbie's Granny. She is one of the reasons why I stopped watching American TV news over two months ago. We've become used to influential pathological liars over the least year or so, but there's still something about Conway that liquefies my guts. Why, how, can any human being so degrade herself?

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Thay haif said. Quhat say thay, Lat thame say (George Keith, 5th Earl Marischal)

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Brenda Clough
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# 18061

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But it is delightful to watch her depicted on Saturday Night Live.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer

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Pangolin Guerre
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# 18686

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I have to force myself to watch her. I find it infuriating to watch someone who is lying, and when you look in their eyes, they're saying, Yeah, I'm lying, but you won't say that. So, I'll lie. She's like a superannuated mean girl. I loathe her with a visceral disgust that defies expression.
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe

Dressed for Church
# 5521

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quote:
Originally posted by Stercus Tauri:
Why, how, can any human being so degrade herself?

Money. She's not the first and she won't be the last.

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"We're not in Wonderland anymore, Alice." – Charles Manson

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Al Eluia

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Just after the election I saw an item about her on Facebook that said, "Why isn't anyone congratulating her on being the first woman campaign manager to win a Presidential campaign?" I refrained from posting a comment because all I could think of at the time was "F*CK YOU!"

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An omer is a tenth of an ephah. (Exodus 16:36)

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Pigwidgeon

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# 10192

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quote:
Originally posted by Pangolin Guerre:
I have to force myself to watch her.

No you don't. I'm sure you have an OFF button.
[Razz]

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Don't keep calm. Go change the world.

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Twilight

Puddleglum's sister
# 2832

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quote:
Originally posted by Stercus Tauri:
but there's still something about Conway that liquefies my guts.

quote:
Originally posted by Pangolin Guerre:
I loathe her with a visceral disgust that defies expression.

I'm so glad it's not just me.
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Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
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Prior to the election I kind of felt sorry for her, but since then she has spent so much time defending Trump's honor, she has joined the list of politicians whose face I can't even look at.

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"Take your broken heart, make it into art"-- Carrie Fisher (1956-2016)

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Pangolin Guerre
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quote:
Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:
quote:
Originally posted by Pangolin Guerre:
I have to force myself to watch her.

No you don't. I'm sure you have an OFF button.
[Razz]

It's my duty to be informed. However trying it is, it is my duty, if for no other reason than to bear witness.

I realise that that was utterly lacking in humour on my part.

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Ariston
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Every Hitler needs their Goebbels; ever power-hungry, glory-seeking Goebbels needs a tyrant to bootlick, kiss ass, and hide behind.

She knows the price, and is willing to pay it. Feed his narcissism, and she's in the White House. Simple as that.

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“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.

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Crœsos
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Kevin Drum wonders What Happened to Kellyanne Conway?

quote:
Has anyone written a definitive profile of Kellyanne Conway? I seem to vaguely recall seeing her on cable news over the years, and she always seemed pretty normal. Conservative, of course, but not crazy or especially mendacious.

Not anymore, though. She goes on TV and routinely lies, tosses out endless chum, makes groundless allegations, and just generally does everything she can to mislead the audience and attack all of her enemies, real and imagined. In other words, she's just like Donald Trump.

<snip>

Does Trump train people to "act like Trump"? Does it just happen naturally if you hang around the guy for a while? Will we soon have an entire administration full of mini-Trumps? It's a scary prospect. In the meantime, though, I'll settle for the straight dope on Kellyanne Conway. What's her deal?

I can't remember having encountered her before the Trump campaign (though I might have and just not remember it if she was a normal-sounding as Drum indicates) so I can't verify anything about before-Kellyanne. Scary if true, though.

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Humani nil a me alienum puto

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sabine
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quote:
Originally posted by Ariston:


She knows the price, and is willing to pay it. Feed his narcissism, and she's in the White House. Simple as that.

She and Pence are both "TV pretty," both ambitious, both willing to relentlessly stick to talking points, especially when the talking points have nothing to do with the question.

Perhaps we should set them up on a date..

sabine

[ 16. January 2017, 15:23: Message edited by: sabine ]

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"Hunger looks like the man that hunger is killing." Eduardo Galeano

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jedijudy

Organist of the Jedi Temple
# 333

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quote:
Originally posted by sabine:
She and Pence are both "TV pretty,"...

Maybe Pence, but I think Kellyanne is very haggard looking. When she smiles after being asked a question that reflects negatively on Trump, her eyes are hard, and her smile is more a grimace.

I really feel she has thrown women everywhere under the bus for thirty pieces of silver.

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Jasmine, little cat with a big heart.

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Brenda Clough
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# 18061

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A FB friend of mine, one James Gaynor, was startled to learn that they were pushing him to be poet laureate. It seems that a poem of his is a favorite of Mr. Kellyann (don't know his actual name) and so his name was thrust forward. In return for reading aloud at the inaugural they actually put his name up for ambassador to Tuvalu. (It's an island, in the south Pacific.) He again declined. We badgered him repeatedly -- is this a joke? Borowitz? The Onion? But apparently it is plain fact.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer

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RooK

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# 1852

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quote:
Originally posted by jedijudy:
I really feel she has thrown women everywhere under the bus for thirty pieces of silver.

The question is: does she, in any crevice of her mind, recognize that fact.

quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
...is this a joke? Borowitz? The Onion? But apparently it is plain fact.

This kind of painful questioning of reality, quizzically queasy about how things could be so, is bound to be a frequent aspect of life for a few years.
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Banner Lady
Ship's Ensign
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I feel exactly the same way about Kellyann and other Trumpeteers as I do about the bloody-minded Brexiteers and the filthy firebugs now deliberately torching the dry Australian countryside.

But I am glad all we have to deal with here are the firebugs. At least we can happily prosecute them for what they are doing to our country. Wouldn't swap you for anything.

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Women in the church are not a problem to be solved, but a mystery to be enjoyed.

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Mamacita

Lakefront liberal
# 3659

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quote:
Originally posted by Crœsos:
Kevin Drum wonders What Happened to Kellyanne Conway?

[QUOTE] [qb]She goes on TV and routinely lies, tosses out endless chum, makes groundless allegations, and just generally does everything she can to mislead the audience and attack all of her enemies, real and imagined. In other words, she's just like Donald Trump.

The thing about Kellyanne is, she talks a mile a minute. And (like her boss, only a bit more coherent) and, until someone cuts her off, she'll just keep on talking and going off onto tangents. She has been clever, so far, in going off into Tu Quogue and Straw man arguments to avoid answering direct questions. Fortunately, the media have begun to figure this out, and are starting to cut her off and push back.

Kellyanne was useful to DJT during the campaign, and for a short while, she seemed to be the only person he'd listen to. (In an interview, she described how she handled him, and it sounded just like a mother of petulant children. She's a mother of three, I believe.) At some point she will cease to be useful to him. Reince Priebus, head of the GOP, os now on the White House payroll and completely in thrall to his new master. I suspect Conway's days are numbered, especially if all those talk show hosts get better at Calling her on her bullshit.

[ 18. January 2017, 05:19: Message edited by: Mamacita ]

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jedijudy

Organist of the Jedi Temple
# 333

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quote:
Originally posted by RooK:
quote:
Originally posted by jedijudy:
I really feel she has thrown women everywhere under the bus for thirty pieces of silver.

The question is: does she, in any crevice of her mind, recognize that fact.
Another question; how many women don't understand that they have been thrown?

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Jasmine, little cat with a big heart.

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Amanda B. Reckondwythe

Dressed for Church
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quote:
Originally posted by RooK:
The question is: does she, in any crevice of her mind, recognize that fact.

Every inch of the way to the bank.

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"We're not in Wonderland anymore, Alice." – Charles Manson

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molopata

The Ship's jack
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I have long had an allegorical desert island in international waters where I abandon political maniacs and their pundits. It's where they go to lacerate one another. The events of 2016 have meant that I am having to upgrade the island in the same way China is the Spratlys just to make space for them all. But I can promise you, Conway with her ever so fitting name will have her place there.

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... The Respectable

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Karl: Liberal Backslider
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# 76

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The problem with the island idea is they could get back.

A space ship programmed to head to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GN-z11 would surely be a better place? I mean, it'd never get there, but just ensure it's in freefall with no propulsion method of its own and it's gone for ever.

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Might as well ask the bloody cat.

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Twilight

Puddleglum's sister
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I don't know Karl. After the bad guys in "Superman," were put into the phantom zone, we didn't think we would be seeing them again, either.
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
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# 76

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I seem to recall that Judge Death managed to get back from the inter-dimensional void as well.

You can but try.

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Might as well ask the bloody cat.

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rolyn
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# 16840

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quote:
Originally posted by jedijudy:
Another question; how many women don't understand that they have been thrown?

Considering that come the end of this day the US will have sworn in President Trump, voted in by male and female, it would seem a significant number of American women don't believe they have been thrown under a bus but granted a future they feel happy with.

HC was labouring under the misconception that a vocal minority spoke for, and represented the entire female population of America and furthermore, particularly after pussygate, she was assured of their vote. Not so.

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Change is the only certainty of existence

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Stetson
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quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:
I don't know Karl. After the bad guys in "Superman," were put into the phantom zone, we didn't think we would be seeing them again, either.

You mean the 1970s version with Brando as Superman's dad? I kinda figured we'd be seeing them again, since their enzonement happened at the beginning of the film, so it must play some role in the story.
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
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# 76

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quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
quote:
Originally posted by jedijudy:
Another question; how many women don't understand that they have been thrown?

Considering that come the end of this day the US will have sworn in President Trump, voted in by male and female, it would seem a significant number of American women don't believe they have been thrown under a bus but granted a future they feel happy with.

HC was labouring under the misconception that a vocal minority spoke for, and represented the entire female population of America and furthermore, particularly after pussygate, she was assured of their vote. Not so.

https://media.licdn.com/mpr/mpr/AAEAAQAAAAAAAAMuAAAAJDMwZTE2ODQzLWMxODgtNGNkMy04MGY4LTdlYjc3M2RiYjA0Ng.jpg

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Might as well ask the bloody cat.

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cliffdweller
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quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:

HC was labouring under the misconception that a vocal minority spoke for, and represented the entire female population of America and furthermore, particularly after pussygate, she was assured of their vote. Not so.

Actually, that's not correct. Certainly HC and the rest of us lefties were overly confident-- even cocky. But the fact is it was not a "vocal minority". The majority of American women voted for Hillary. Unfortunately, not enough of them in a few key states to pass the EC-- which is what counts. But it was not a "vocal minority."

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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner

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cliffdweller
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# 13338

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This link is work-safe but may not be fashion safe:

Kellyanne's "revolution-wear" inaugural duds

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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner

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mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

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quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
This link is work-safe but may not be fashion safe:

Kellyanne's "revolution-wear" inaugural duds

I found the soundtrack for this outfit.

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God has shown me that I should not call any man impure or unclean. --Acts 10:28

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Golden Key
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quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:

HC was labouring under the misconception that a vocal minority spoke for, and represented the entire female population of America and furthermore, particularly after pussygate, she was assured of their vote. Not so.

Actually, that's not correct. Certainly HC and the rest of us lefties were overly confident-- even cocky. But the fact is it was not a "vocal minority". The majority of American women voted for Hillary. Unfortunately, not enough of them in a few key states to pass the EC-- which is what counts. But it was not a "vocal minority."
...which is one reason for reminding people that Hillary won the popular vote. Many people, in the US and elsewhere, don't realize that or don't want to believe it.

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

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rolyn
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# 16840

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OK, many many American women did vote against trump, I get that.

But what really strikes me, (and this big emphasis today on women marching as opposed to just People confirms it), is that the widening division which has come to exist between men and women in the US, and in other Western Countries, had already been caused by the 'vocal minority' itself . What trump did was to cleverly exploit it.
That is to say he deliberately campaigned as a misogynistic shithead, soaked up the flak for it and then came out victorious. Reverse psychology, or something like that.

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Change is the only certainty of existence

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Golden Key
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# 1468

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rolyn--

Re the division between men and women being caused by vocal women:

No.

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

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Pigwidgeon

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quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
rolyn--

Re the division between men and women being caused by vocal women:

No.

Whereas, being caused by a misogynistic shithead:

Yes.

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Don't keep calm. Go change the world.

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mousethief

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# 953

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quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
OK, many many American women did vote against trump, I get that.

But what really strikes me, (and this big emphasis today on women marching as opposed to just People confirms it), is that the widening division which has come to exist between men and women in the US, and in other Western Countries, had already been caused by the 'vocal minority' itself . What trump did was to cleverly exploit it.
That is to say he deliberately campaigned as a misogynistic shithead, soaked up the flak for it and then came out victorious. Reverse psychology, or something like that.

If there is a split between women and misogynistic shitheads, don't blame it on women.

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God has shown me that I should not call any man impure or unclean. --Acts 10:28

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Leorning Cniht
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# 17564

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quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
The widening division which has come to exist between men and women in the US, and in other Western Countries, had already been caused by the 'vocal minority' itself.

What "widening division"? I don't think it exists.

I think it's fair to say that since the start of the women's rights movement, there have been more women than men in favour of rights for women (but not 100%: back in the day you could find plenty of women to argue against universal suffrage).

If anything, I'd say the division was narrowing. A generation ago, Trumpian misogyny was widespread. Today, it draws widespread comment.

It wasn't enough to prevent him from being elected, and I think we've had discussions elsewhere about how many votes her femaleness cost Hillary Clinton, but I think your assumption is false.

You might as accurately have talked about the widening division between gay and straight people. We don't have one of those, either. What we have are women and gay people who have stepped out of the shade and are claiming their rights, and a reactionary rump who are unhappy about that. The majority of men, and the majority of straight people, are on the side of the women and the gay people. And that's the side that has demographic momentum behind it, too.

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mousethief

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quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
The majority of men, and the majority of straight people, are on the side of the women and the gay people. And that's the side that has demographic momentum behind it, too.

What exactly do you mean? At a first reading it sounds like you're saying that women and gays are going to make up an increasing portion of the population, which can't be what you mean.

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God has shown me that I should not call any man impure or unclean. --Acts 10:28

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Leorning Cniht
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# 17564

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quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
What exactly do you mean? At a first reading it sounds like you're saying that women and gays are going to make up an increasing portion of the population, which can't be what you mean.

Just that younger people are more accepting of equality. It's not universal, of course, but today's young people have largely grown up in a world where having women scientists, doctors, and lawyers is normal. The next generation of young people will grow up with a chicken in every pot and a family with gay parents on every street.

Normalization wins.

(Slowly. It doesn't mean we can relax now, because there are real people whose lives are affected now by hatred and bigotry, and it's cold comfort to tell them that in a hundred years it'll be better.)

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Alt Wally

Cardinal Ximinez
# 3245

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quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
the widening division which has come to exist between men and women in the US, and in other Western Countries, had already been caused by the 'vocal minority' itself . What trump did was to cleverly exploit it.

What's the data about this division? My understanding is voting was largely along party lines in this election and did not show some kind of divergence along gender lines.
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Ariston
Insane Unicorn
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They're not lies. They're just alternative facts.

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“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.

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rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840

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quote:
Originally posted by Alt Wally:
What's the data about this division? My understanding is voting was largely along party lines in this election and did not show some kind of divergence along gender lines.

From what little I studied of it, (UK news), the impression gleaned was that DT, albeit largely by hinting, was looking to inflame the feminists knowing full well the tensions which had, for years, grown around these issues.
This, along with the whole dis-ing Hillary bit, not because she was a woman, Oh no, I doubt he ever said that, didn't need to such was the bombastic rhetoric of his whole campaign.

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Change is the only certainty of existence

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Pigwidgeon

Ship's Owl
# 10192

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quote:
Originally posted by Ariston:
They're not lies. They're just alternative facts.

I saw that term earlier today and was so upset that I didn't know it as a child. "No, Mom, I didn't lie. I told an alternative fact."

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Don't keep calm. Go change the world.

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Pangolin Guerre
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# 18686

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I was just watching CNN (actually, it was in the background), and the folks at Webster's have stepped up and said that "alternative facts" do not exist as facts, but as incorrect statements or lies. Good on them.
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RuthW

liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13

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quote:
Originally posted by Ariston:
They're not lies. They're just alternative facts.

The alt right has alt facts. No surprise there!
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Brenda Clough
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# 18061

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Or, as the dame said in Chicago, "He died of artistic differences. He saw himself as alive, and I saw him dead."

I was at the March in Washington. There were plenty of men there, some of them with lovely signs. (My husband's said I'M WITH HER.) There were also many dogs (one in a stroller), children, and teens. I saw one couple with a baby two months old. (I said, "You're crazy." The mom said, "He needs to become politically active." The dad said, "It's his baptism.")

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orfeo

Ship's Musical Counterpoint
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quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
OK, many many American women did vote against trump, I get that.

But what really strikes me, (and this big emphasis today on women marching as opposed to just People confirms it), is that the widening division which has come to exist between men and women in the US, and in other Western Countries, had already been caused by the 'vocal minority' itself . What trump did was to cleverly exploit it.
That is to say he deliberately campaigned as a misogynistic shithead, soaked up the flak for it and then came out victorious. Reverse psychology, or something like that.

The only way I can parse this is: "life was so much easier when a man could guarantee his wife would vote the way she was told, and Trump was clever in getting the votes of all those men who wish they could go back to being in charge".

[ 22. January 2017, 20:44: Message edited by: orfeo ]

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orfeo

Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878

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quote:
Originally posted by Alt Wally:
quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
the widening division which has come to exist between men and women in the US, and in other Western Countries, had already been caused by the 'vocal minority' itself . What trump did was to cleverly exploit it.

What's the data about this division? My understanding is voting was largely along party lines in this election and did not show some kind of divergence along gender lines.
There was a historically large gender gap in who voted for Clinton.

Or not. I mean, I'm sure you could find some "alternative facts" about that.

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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

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Golden Key
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# 1468

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Yes. And, believe it or not, a whole bunch of women wanted a woman president, and a whole bunch of those chose Hillary. (As did many men.)

The US has never, ever had a woman president or VP. Occasionally, a first lady quietly filled in for an incapacitated president, behind the scenes. (Off the top of my head, Mrs. Woodrow Wilson and Eleanor Roosevelt. Possibly others.) Good grief, India and Pakistan, not generally known for women's rights, have had women in charge.

When Hillary first ran, she and her supporters put "18 million cracks in that highest, hardest glass ceiling". This time, we kicked a hole in it; but the stupid Electoral College kept it from collapsing and put a grille over the hole.

Next time a woman runs, the damn thing is coming down. Hard hats recommended.
[Votive]

*orfeo*, thanks for the good comments and link. [Smile]

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--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338

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quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
OK, many many American women did vote against trump, I get that.

Not many. Not many, many. The majority. Not a vocal minority-- the majority. Come on, you can say it, I know that you can.


quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:

But what really strikes me, (and this big emphasis today on women marching as opposed to just People confirms it), is that the widening division which has come to exist between men and women in the US, and in other Western Countries, had already been caused by the 'vocal minority' itself . What trump did was to cleverly exploit it.
That is to say he deliberately campaigned as a misogynistic shithead, soaked up the flak for it and then came out victorious. Reverse psychology, or something like that.

Wow. Way to victim-blame. When you speak out about oppression it's your fault that people get mad and elect a **** who will oppress you even more.

Just wow.

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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner

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mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

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quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
What exactly do you mean? At a first reading it sounds like you're saying that women and gays are going to make up an increasing portion of the population, which can't be what you mean.

Just that younger people are more accepting of equality. It's not universal, of course, but today's young people have largely grown up in a world where having women scientists, doctors, and lawyers is normal. The next generation of young people will grow up with a chicken in every pot and a family with gay parents on every street.

Normalization wins.

(Slowly. It doesn't mean we can relax now, because there are real people whose lives are affected now by hatred and bigotry, and it's cold comfort to tell them that in a hundred years it'll be better.)

I see. Now if we can just get the younger generations to give a fart about income/wealth inequality.

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God has shown me that I should not call any man impure or unclean. --Acts 10:28

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