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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: TICTH to go?
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
I have seen a hell of a lot of that kind of heckling in the time I've been here. Are new hell hosts alerted to this policy?
This is a reasonable point, and one I'm minded to heed.
jacobsen's suggestion of an AS thread - given that almost all TICTH comments are, as implied, based on Just One Of Those Damn Things - something that perhaps we should also take backstage and discuss.
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Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
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Rossweisse
High Church Valkyrie
# 2349
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RooK:
No, that's the whole point of mentioning academic squabbles - they're famous for having inverse heat and duration for the importance of the topic.
The saying "Academic politics are so vicious precisely because the stakes are so small" is often attributed to Henry Kissinger, but Samuel Johnson may have written its (much more prolix) predecessor in 1765. Wherever it came from, it's certainly true.
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I'm not dead yet.
Posts: 15117 | From: Valhalla | Registered: Feb 2002
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Doc Tor--
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
ETA: Doc Tor, I don't know of anyone who views TICTH as entertainment.
quote:
Originally posted by lily pad:
I know this is no democracy but it is one of the places where a little bit of steam is let off and where some of us find entertainment and solace about our situations too.
The thing is, TICTH threads were never officially banned. Just that they tended to be closed capriciously by a passing Hell host when it all got a bit too fluffy bunny for them to stomach.
...which is banning without the name, ISTM. And why are Hell hosts so allergic to fluffy posts? It's not like they have to eat them. ![[Biased]](wink.gif) If anything, I'd think fluffier posts would be easier for hostly perusal, because they're much less likely to contain stuff they have to act on.
And, from what you said, it sounds like hosts close threads when in a bad mood...
quote:
It's not up to us to keep TICTH Hellish. We don't curate the thread. That's your job, and one that you (collectively) suck at. Such are the joys and disappointments of a public message board.
Uh, no. You (gen.) *do* curate the TICTH thread. Hell hosts pop in and say something isn't Hellish enough, and they're going to close the thread if we keep that up. And, eventually, they do.
Respectfully: Look, we keep going through this. I think that the fact that we keep doing TICTH with a mixture of annoyance, venting, and minor support/discussion means TICTH fills a felt need. A long-term felt need.
So why don't we just find a way to make it work? Venting, annoyance, minor support/discussion, and all???
Thx.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
Life isn’t neat. The horrific is mixed with the trivial, the laughter is right there alongside the tears.
This is why I like TICTH. All human life is there.
This.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Stejjie
Shipmate
# 13941
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Posted
GK:
If a particular type of thread keeps being closed because its contents aren’t in keeping with the board it’s on (as happens with TICTH threads, as you point out), then perhaps that’s a sign that that type of thread doesn’t belong on that board.
There are plenty of other boards on the Ship where being supportive, cute, fluffy etc. is fine, indeed positively encouraged (All Saints being the one that immediately springs to mind). If TICTH can’t happen without those elements, indeed if TICTH is valued precisely because of those elements, then maybe it belongs, in a slightly modified form, in AS or wherever.
Also, while the hosts may or may not curate the boards, it’s surely the responsibility of us shippies to make sure that we post in ways that are appropriate to the board we’re posting on (eg hellish comments belong in Hell and not elsewhere; hostly decisions are queried in The Styx and not elsewhere etc.). It can’t be the case that Shippies post whatever they want, wherever they want, and expect the hosts to clean up the mess. That’s a recipe for chaos.
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A not particularly-alt-worshippy, fairly mainstream, mildly evangelical, vaguely post-modern-ish Baptist
Posts: 1117 | From: Urmston, Manchester, UK | Registered: Jul 2008
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jacobsen
seeker
# 14998
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
The only real reason TICTH threads are in Hell is because Hell is in the title of the thread. There's nothing particularly Hellish about
snip
cellulitis.
snip
The Hell hosts demand red meat, raw, warm and preferably still bleeding, not these milquetoast offerings.
Well, Doc, that just shows your lack of knowledge about cellulitis. The affected limb was indeed. red, raw, eventually bleeding and definitely hellish. None of the online pics I've seen are as bad as my own experience, which is why I haven't posted a link.
Cellulitis is a condition of which the possible consequences are MRSA, amputation and/or death. If that doesn't qualify for TICTH it's hard to see what would.
[ 14. January 2018, 08:42: Message edited by: jacobsen ]
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But God, holding a candle, looks for all who wander, all who search. - Shifra Alon
Beauty fades, dumb is forever-Judge Judy
The man who made time, made plenty.
Posts: 8040 | From: Æbleskiver country | Registered: Aug 2009
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Twilight
Puddleglum's sister
# 2832
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Posted
That sounds truly terrible. ( ![[Votive]](graemlins/votive.gif) )
I'll bet Doc Tor confused it with cellulite and was afraid he was going to have to hear about my dimpled thighs.
Posts: 6817 | Registered: May 2002
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
I have seen a hell of a lot of that kind of heckling in the time I've been here. Are new hell hosts alerted to this policy?
This is a reasonable point, and one I'm minded to heed.
jacobsen's suggestion of an AS thread - given that almost all TICTH comments are, as implied, based on Just One Of Those Damn Things - something that perhaps we should also take backstage and discuss.
Thank you. I think that would work, so long as strong feelings and language are allowed, which I’m sure they would be.
ETA - and comments, of course.
[ 14. January 2018, 12:07: Message edited by: Boogie ]
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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RooK
1 of 6
# 1852
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Posted
Hell is other people.
Posts: 15274 | From: Portland, Oregon, USA, Earth | Registered: Nov 2001
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RooK:
Hell is other people.
Thank you, Jean Paul. Allow me to show you the exit.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
To round up the latest comments:
Yes, I'm aware that cellulitis is a serious, hospitalising condition. I don't live in a hermetically sealed box. But it is, like the weather, One Of Those Things.
I am reliably informed that strong feelings and bad language are not barred from either AS (or Heaven for that matter, when we recently had to send a thread from Hell).
No, hosts do not curate (since Hosting-lite). We hover, like ghosts. In my case, angry, vengeful ghosts. Yes, we expect shipmates to think about their post and whether it's suitable for the board concerned. The Hell guidelines are clear and succinct, and may go some way to indicate that 'fluffy' does not really belong there.
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Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
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Pooks
Shipmate
# 11425
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
No, hosts do not curate (since Hosting-lite). We hover, like ghosts. In my case, angry, vengeful ghosts. Yes, we expect shipmates to think about their post and whether it's suitable for the board concerned. The Hell guidelines are clear and succinct, and may go some way to indicate that 'fluffy' does not really belong there.
Well, what's written on top of the damn Hell board is this: "This is Hell. Please note that posting here is the equivalent of drawing a big, fat bull's eye on your chest. Got a complaint, a rant or a personal argument to settle? Feel free to add it to the uproar – so long as you have a thick skin to match. <*snip*> "
It doesn't say that fluffy doesn't belong. Nor does it said Hell requires bloody red meat. So if a fluffy bunny is prepared to be spanked in Hell with his or her asbestos underwear on for being too fluffy, why is that not acceptable given the guideline?
But I get that you have decided that fluffy bunny has no place in Hell under your stewardship. So I shall say no more and will leave you in peace. My thanks and best wishes to you and all who run this Ship.
Posts: 1547 | Registered: May 2006
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
It would be nice to see if All Saints hosts want things like: "you're an idiot", and "you deserve your misfortune" and the like, with more swear works on that board. "You shit the bed", along with other forms of nonsupport. Noting of course that the thread I started was to be one where we mock and express nonsympathy etc, and not the distilled single point of troubles without any reply as there's a wish to interpret it as.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
Saying that fluffy does not belong in Hell is no more than saying serious debate does not belong in Heaven, nor prayer requests in Purgatory, nor games in All Saints. My co-stewardship has nothing to do with this policy, although my interpretation of this will differ to other Hell hosts present and past.
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Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
Saying that fluffy does not belong in Hell is no more than saying serious debate does not belong in Heaven, nor prayer requests in Purgatory, nor games in All Saints. My co-stewardship has nothing to do with this policy, although my interpretation of this will differ to other Hell hosts present and past.
I think Pooks' point was, if it's a policy, it's an unwritten one.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
TICTH to go... does that mean there'll be a takeaway version soon? A bit like the "packed orgy" in a lunch box in Asterix in Switzerland?
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
Shall we try a misfortune and mockery thread in Heaven or AS as an experiment?
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Stejjie
Shipmate
# 13941
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pooks:
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
No, hosts do not curate (since Hosting-lite). We hover, like ghosts. In my case, angry, vengeful ghosts. Yes, we expect shipmates to think about their post and whether it's suitable for the board concerned. The Hell guidelines are clear and succinct, and may go some way to indicate that 'fluffy' does not really belong there.
Well, what's written on top of the damn Hell board is this: "This is Hell. Please note that posting here is the equivalent of drawing a big, fat bull's eye on your chest. Got a complaint, a rant or a personal argument to settle? Feel free to add it to the uproar – so long as you have a thick skin to match. <*snip*> "
It doesn't say that fluffy doesn't belong. Nor does it said Hell requires bloody red meat. So if a fluffy bunny is prepared to be spanked in Hell with his or her asbestos underwear on for being too fluffy, why is that not acceptable given the guideline?
But I get that you have decided that fluffy bunny has no place in Hell under your stewardship. So I shall say no more and will leave you in peace. My thanks and best wishes to you and all who run this Ship.
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
Saying that fluffy does not belong in Hell is no more than saying serious debate does not belong in Heaven, nor prayer requests in Purgatory, nor games in All Saints. My co-stewardship has nothing to do with this policy, although my interpretation of this will differ to other Hell hosts present and past.
I think Pooks' point was, if it's a policy, it's an unwritten one.
I'd note that the Hell description goes on to say:
quote:
The flames are fast and furious here, so back out if you don't want to be roasted to a crisp... our normal rules on civility are abandoned on this board.
And the Hell board guidelines state:
quote:
The atmosphere round here is much more Old Testament than New, so prepare yourself for a bit of fire and brimstone.
They seem a fairly clear statement that Hell isn't the appropriate place for "fluffy".
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A not particularly-alt-worshippy, fairly mainstream, mildly evangelical, vaguely post-modern-ish Baptist
Posts: 1117 | From: Urmston, Manchester, UK | Registered: Jul 2008
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
It's a fairly clear statement that fluffies can expected to get roasted, not that they're not welcome. As I read it, Pooks wasn't complaining about being roasted, but about the fact that the "no fluffies" rule is not explicit.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Ohher
Shipmate
# 18607
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Posted
All very true. Yet it's also the case that Hell threads not infrequently go all Purgatorial -- far more so than Hellish -- and this gets noted (sometimes) within the threads where this happens. Rarely, though (at least from what I've seen) do those threads get booted out of Hell and into Purgatory.
It seems that there is broad agreement that Hell is no place for fluff & bunnies. Neither, though, are the TICTH threads I've seen. Do they end up containing incursions of fluff? Yes. But if we consider a TICTH thread as basically a series of disgruntled OPs which draw limited commentary running both to fluff as well as to mockery, actual critical thinking, and even occasional discussion and insults, the real problem here seems to be that Hell Hosts just don't like managing them. And the Real Presence of a TICTH thread in Hell demands this of said Hell Hosts.
Considering the handsome wages we're heaping on our Hell Hosts for their efforts, TICTH's apparent popularity among Shipmates counts as nil. If a TICTH thread exists going forward, a different solution must be found either for TICTH's location, or for its Hosting. Self-monitoring has apparently not worked. Are there Shipmates who might volunteer to act as official hosts for a TICTH thread on its own, to keep it within whatever boundaries apply to whichever Board it lives on?
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From the Land of the Native American Brave and the Home of the Buy-One-Get-One-Free
Posts: 374 | From: New Hampshire, USA | Registered: Jun 2016
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RooK
1 of 6
# 1852
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Posted
Way back when I was required to give a shit about TICTH, it was not the banter or the fluffiness or anything of the sort that was a problem for me. No, the problem was the eventual extrapolation of the thread's main benefit: the lowered bar for contribution.
Contribution is theoretically great, and most often is. The TICTH threads (in all their various incarnations) have always been popular because of how much easier it is to get that wee dopamine surge of having Said Something. It can generally be expected to be one of the more popular threads in Hell whenever it persists. But that exact ease of participation turns ugly, as it starts overwhelmingly pulling for the petty, the mundane, and the pointless. That by itself is not too big of a deal, humans being humans and all. But as the bar drifts down and down, Sarky and myself would start finding ourselves increasingly hating everybody babbling away on it with their insipid stream-of-consciousness non-stop whining about every little fucking thing. It made the whole Hellhosting endeavour problematic, as we found ourselves burning out and really having difficulty containing the frustrations to just Hell.
So. We took breaks from allowing it. For our own sakes, for the sake of our relationships with the rest of the Crew, and for the sake of the health of the Ship.
This hard-earned wisdom is part of why the shinier Hellhosts are more actively cautious about letting TICTH steamroll. It's really hard to tell people they can't have something they have come to experience as "allowed" or "deserved".
For all Doc Tor's snarling about the current TICTH thread, you'll notice that he has not actually closed it. That says something - mostly that he hasn't burned out quite yet. Whatever arguments you might raise here for why you want it, none are going to be as important as how annoyed with it our lone Hellhost happens to be on any given day.
Posts: 15274 | From: Portland, Oregon, USA, Earth | Registered: Nov 2001
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
It's a fairly clear statement that fluffies can expected to get roasted, not that they're not welcome. As I read it, Pooks wasn't complaining about being roasted, but about the fact that the "no fluffies" rule is not explicit.
This. To the infinite power.
Some of the Ship's best, most sensitive discussions have been in Hell. On regular threads. The kind of threads we pull up when someone wants to know about the Ship, what it's for, and why we all hang out here.
When I first boarded, I was terrified of the Hell board. And it was especially nasty then. It didn't help when an H/A posted Hellishly on a very nice Purg thread, as a Shipmate--then officially said "oh well, this thread needs to go to Hell now", and moved it. I spoke up at the time, but it didn't do any good. Wasn't a happy camper.
But I gradually eased into Hell; and, eventually, after some of the nastier flaming and abuse settled down, it became one of my favorite boards--specifically *because* of the discussions and support in an unexpected place.
Hell is supposed to corral stuff that would mess up the other boards. Someone said, upthread, that TICTH makes a mess for Hell hosts to clean up. What kind of mess does it make???
This may sound weird, but please bear with me. When laying out sidewalks for a new building and its green space, some landscapers have learned that it's a mistake to arbitrarily put the sidewalks where the landscapers think they should go. Instead, they hold back on the sidewalks, and wait to see where people naturally wear down paths, and put the sidewalks *there*.
Same thing with TICTH. Whenever we've got it, we gladly put it to use, in the way that we need. Shutting down TICTH, trying to make it into something else, is like putting in arbitrary sidewalks, and getting mad when people walk on the grass.
We need TICTH. Please adapt, and let us have it.
Thanks. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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RooK
1 of 6
# 1852
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Posted
Your appeal to "need" makes it sound like an intervention is more necessary than enabling.
Posts: 15274 | From: Portland, Oregon, USA, Earth | Registered: Nov 2001
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Rook--
We're not allowed to need the Ship, other Shipmates, the various boards?
Errr...why do you think we come here?
![[Ultra confused]](graemlins/confused2.gif)
[ 15. January 2018, 02:48: Message edited by: Golden Key ]
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
Rook,
Thank you for the TICH history and breakdown. It does help to have perspective.
I was also going to post that there is only so much we should expect from people who are doing this for free, but then I remembered you doubled the host's salaries. So get it moving, yeah?
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Rook--
Just FYI: I hadn't yet seen your "Way back when" post when I posted just after it. Thanks for the backstage info. I'm processing it.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
Back in the day, when I was a hell host, I remember the problem with ticth. It tended to devolve into a party thread - which doesn't really work for readers. It stopped people starting appropriate hell threads, they'd post on ticth - the topic would make other posters angry too and they'd post in reply (about some serious topic like a massacre) and then someone would come along and ticth the design of flowerpots thereby infuriating those who were discussing the massacre and the whole thing would turn into a big mess.
It started to be something we'd go with for short periods intermittently. Problem is you'd close it, thinking OK that's it for a month and the next day someone would start another one.
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
Shall we try a misfortune and mockery thread in Heaven or AS as an experiment?
I’d say AS so that it can be serious or fluffy or just ‘meh’, as it is now.
In fact, how about moving the present TICTH thread to AS and seeing how it goes and what the hosts think?
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Twilight
Puddleglum's sister
# 2832
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RooK:
Contribution is theoretically great, and most often is. The TICTH threads (in all their various incarnations) have always been popular because of how much easier it is to get that wee dopamine surge of having Said Something. It can generally be expected to be one of the more popular threads in Hell whenever it persists. But that exact ease of participation turns ugly, as it starts overwhelmingly pulling for the petty, the mundane, and the pointless. That by itself is not too big of a deal, humans being humans and all. But as the bar drifts down and down, Sarky and myself would start finding ourselves increasingly hating everybody babbling away on it with their insipid stream-of-consciousness non-stop whining about every little fucking thing. It made the whole Hellhosting endeavour problematic, as we found ourselves burning out and really having difficulty containing the frustrations to just Hell.
Aha! The truth will out. It makes you guys hate us.
Remember that thread we had called, "Blog of Mr. Nobody?" I loved that thing. All anyone had to say was, "I'm wearing my stripy socks," and it was good.
So, yes, I'll admit I like to Say Something. I posted therefore I am. I also like to vent my irritations here, as it spares my family.
Adding in OhHer's nice reminder that the hosts are unpaid and so allowed to have their way about things and I guess we really need to move it somewhere else...
However, I don't want to be posting on the newly relocated TICTH in Heaven or Purg or AS, which I tend to forget is even down there, and have the host tell me I, "sound angry," and really should rein it in, etc. That happens to me a lot while speaking freely on other boards and it hurts my feelings, something which never happens when Doc Tor says something rude to me in Hell because it's somehow expected and doesn't feel as personal.
Posts: 6817 | Registered: May 2002
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Ohher
Shipmate
# 18607
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink.:
Back in the day, when I was a hell host, I remember the problem with ticth. It tended to devolve into a party thread - which doesn't really work for readers.
Ah. So that must be why current readers are showing up here by tens and dozens to plead for the life of TICTH.
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From the Land of the Native American Brave and the Home of the Buy-One-Get-One-Free
Posts: 374 | From: New Hampshire, USA | Registered: Jun 2016
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Leaf
Shipmate
# 14169
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ohher:
So that must be why current readers are showing up here by tens and dozens to plead for the life of TICTH.
Indeed: it shows the divide between party-goers and party hosts.
I may think it is a shit-ton of fun to dump Jello in your swimming pool and think it makes for a memorable party. You as host may be less enamoured of this plan. Similarly, TICTH threads tend to turn messy and gross for hosts to have to deal with.* I don't see why it is problematic to consider that.
*It's the advice I can't stand, and which IMHO deserves to be nuked from orbit. e.g. "TICTH itchy socks." "Have you tried silk? Banana peels?" etc.
Posts: 2786 | From: the electrical field | Registered: Oct 2008
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
If someone has a problem with someone else they need to feel free to take that to Hell, having others immediately jump on the thread to call it "lame" or otherwise insufficiently entertaining discourages people from taking their arguments to Hell.
I have seen a hell of a lot of that kind of heckling in the time I've been here. Are new hell hosts alerted to this policy?
I'm picking this up fairly late because it ties in with what RooK later said.
quote:
Originally posted by RooK:
the problem was the eventual extrapolation of the thread's main benefit: the lowered bar for contribution.
Contribution is theoretically great, and most often is. The TICTH threads (in all their various incarnations) have always been popular because of how much easier it is to get that wee dopamine surge of having Said Something.
The "lamest thread ever" type of comments has the effect of raising the bar to contribute to Hell. We may not have been entirely consistent about calling it, but we don't want anyone to discourage someone with a genuine (to them) grievance expressing that in Hell.
As RooK notes, TICTH type threads have the opposite effect of lowering the bar of participation.
As RooK says, participation is good. We're all for having as many people use Hell as need to. But, at the end of the day there is a bar in Hell ... a necessary minimum thickness of skin, an adequate set of asbestos undies. There is a difficult balance between setting the bar too high and people with grievances feeling it's too hot to participate, and setting it too low such that we fill the place with the smell of burnt bunny fur.
And, it's a balance that will always result in some people thinking we've got it wrong.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ohher:
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink.:
Back in the day, when I was a hell host, I remember the problem with ticth. It tended to devolve into a party thread - which doesn't really work for readers.
Ah. So that must be why current readers are showing up here by tens and dozens to plead for the life of TICTH.
It works for some readers, for others...
As a campaigner for the thread's existence, and one who doesn't have to read every post, I still find the sheer silly, artless bilge that accumulates on that thread annoying.
'TICTH the neighbour whose dog bit my leg and sent me to A&E for 3 hours and 20 stitches!'
'I had a puppy wee on my shoe, once'
'I love puppies'
'I can't stand the little vermin'
'How dare you insult puppies!'
No, not a verbatim quote from a TICTH, but it might as well be.
TICTH serves a valuable purpose, but someone always cocks it up.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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jacobsen
seeker
# 14998
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ohher:
[qb] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Doublethink.:
'TICTH the neighbour whose dog bit my leg and sent me to A&E for 3 hours and 20 stitches!'
Tangent alert If he got treated within three hours the hospital was doing well to accomplish that within the recommended four. End tangent
[ 15. January 2018, 15:51: Message edited by: jacobsen ]
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But God, holding a candle, looks for all who wander, all who search. - Shifra Alon
Beauty fades, dumb is forever-Judge Judy
The man who made time, made plenty.
Posts: 8040 | From: Æbleskiver country | Registered: Aug 2009
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by jacobsen:
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ohher:
[qb] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Doublethink.:
'TICTH the neighbour whose dog bit my leg and sent me to A&E for 3 hours and 20 stitches!'
Tangent alert If he got treated within three hours the hospital was doing well to accomplish that within the recommended four. End tangent
Been awhile since I was in A&E for something that minor.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ohher:
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink.:
Back in the day, when I was a hell host, I remember the problem with ticth. It tended to devolve into a party thread - which doesn't really work for readers.
Ah. So that must be why current readers are showing up here by tens and dozens to plead for the life of TICTH.
A) There have been about fifty posts, how many people do you imagine are posting on this thread ?
B) We don't have ticth often now, people forget, do you remember the one that turned into a running battle between cyclists and drivers ?
(Also can I just point out I've been misattributed in the last coupla posts - I didn't say that thing about A&E.)
[ 15. January 2018, 16:13: Message edited by: Doublethink. ]
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
The "lamest thread ever" type of comments has the effect of raising the bar to contribute to Hell. We may not have been entirely consistent about calling it, but we don't want anyone to discourage someone with a genuine (to them) grievance expressing that in Hell.
"Not entirely consistent" is being VERY generous to yourselves. "Not usually cognizant (or give-a-fuck-tual)" would be more accurate. God bless you guys, you have a (relatively) thankless job, and the vast majority of the time do it well. But if there's one thing y'all don't do so well, it's shutting down third-party heckling on calls to Hell.
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
TICTH serves a valuable purpose, but someone always cocks it up.
Hard to think of anything in this life that that's not true of, really.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
Will the future be the same as the past?
-it will be exactly the same!
-it won't be identical, but it will closely rhyme!
-it will be different!
-it isn't fair to call a TICTH thread a thread which was started with a different premise specifically involving delicious insensitivity and mockery! Can't we just have some fun?
-I am a host/admin/farm implement deployer/know the history of the Ship better than the likes of you, and I will have it my way because I am authorized and I really do enjoy biting and drinking blood, and I can easily beat you all at once with both arms tied behind my back!
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
But if there's one thing y'all don't do so well, it's shutting down third-party heckling on calls to Hell.
The difficulty is, and always will be, defining unhelpful heckling from valid contributions. We don't want a situation where the only people who can post on a Hell thread are the person being called and the person doing the calling. All are welcome to post - supporting the person called or the person doing the calling. IMO telling someone that they're over reacting is part of that. Saying the thread is not sufficiently entertaining isn't. Telling the difference is an art, not a science.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
But if there's one thing y'all don't do so well, it's shutting down third-party heckling on calls to Hell.
The difficulty is, and always will be, defining unhelpful heckling from valid contributions. We don't want a situation where the only people who can post on a Hell thread are the person being called and the person doing the calling. All are welcome to post - supporting the person called or the person doing the calling. IMO telling someone that they're over reacting is part of that. Saying the thread is not sufficiently entertaining isn't. Telling the difference is an art, not a science.
And y'all are human, so you are going to cock it up at times. And sometimes issues are addressed practically, not fairly.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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RooK
1 of 6
# 1852
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Posted
Don't forget our ability to be unfairly impractical. Which is done purely for entertainment.
Posts: 15274 | From: Portland, Oregon, USA, Earth | Registered: Nov 2001
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
Human-ish.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Twilight
Puddleglum's sister
# 2832
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Leaf:
quote:
Originally posted by Ohher:
So that must be why current readers are showing up here by tens and dozens to plead for the life of TICTH.
Indeed: it shows the divide between party-goers and party hosts.
I may think it is a shit-ton of fun to dump Jello in your swimming pool and think it makes for a memorable party. You as host may be less enamoured of this plan. Similarly, TICTH threads tend to turn messy and gross for hosts to have to deal with.* I don't see why it is problematic to consider that.
*It's the advice I can't stand, and which IMHO deserves to be nuked from orbit. e.g. "TICTH itchy socks." "Have you tried silk? Banana peels?" etc.
Really? Someone saying, "Have you tried silk?" is messy and gross and on a par with filling someone's private pool with Jello, thus creating a need for an expensive professional cleaner?
Message board hosts are similar to real life party hosts in name only. We aren't really going to anyone's house. We aren't really eating their food or spilling wine on their sofa. There will be zero expense or clean-up for them.
As message board members in good standing we are all invited, not party crashers with mayhem on our mind.
No, what this is more like is a party in the condo community clubhouse with all "entertainment" provided by the guests themselves.
The "hosts" are simply people elected by the condo commission to see that the rules are obeyed. It might be said that a host at that sort of party who wanted to kick rule-abiding people out just because he found their conversation boring was overstepping his bounds.
Posts: 6817 | Registered: May 2002
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Leaf
Shipmate
# 14169
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:
The "hosts" are simply people elected by the condo commission to see that the rules are obeyed.
Really? We elect the hosts of these boards? I was unaware. You will have to direct me to the pages where nominations, campaigns, and voting occurred, as well as the rules of this electoral process.
More seriously, since you don't agree with my analogy and I don't agree with yours, we will have to agree to disagree.
The more I read this thread, the more sympathy I have for Doc Tor's position on TICTH.
The worst thing about the decline of TICTH threads is that it is precipitated by well-intentioned people, who want to provide helpful advice, solidarity, their own sometimes-relevant experiences, or well-meant arguments against the complaint. In their attempt to be kindly, helpful, well-intentioned, or just chatty, they fuck up the thread. What is a virtue elsewhere - in the dominion of Heaven and/or the Saints - is, appropriately, a vice in Hell.
Posts: 2786 | From: the electrical field | Registered: Oct 2008
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Uncle Pete
Loyaute me lie
# 10422
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Posted
As a former Hellhost, I am not unhappy to see it gone.
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Even more so than I was before
Posts: 20466 | From: No longer where I was | Registered: Sep 2005
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Twilight
Puddleglum's sister
# 2832
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Leaf:
quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:
The "hosts" are simply people elected by the condo commission to see that the rules are obeyed.
Really? We elect the hosts of these boards? I was unaware. You will have to direct me to the pages where nominations, campaigns, and voting occurred, as well as the rules of this electoral process.
No. In real life the people living in the condominiums elect a few of their group to help keep things in order. I just thought those people were closer to the hosts on this board than people throwing parties in their own homes. Alike in their function not in how they came to be hosts. Not exactly alike, just similar. You may want to direct me to the evidence of shipmates going to the homes of our hosts and admins and ruining their pools.
My analogy wasn't perfect, but yours was such a stretch as to not be an analogy at all.
Leaf:
In their attempt to be kindly, helpful, well-intentioned, or just chatty, they fuck up the thread.
Oh the horror.
Posts: 6817 | Registered: May 2002
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Leaf
Shipmate
# 14169
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:
quote:
Originally posted by Leaf:
In their attempt to be kindly, helpful, well-intentioned, or just chatty, they fuck up the thread.
Oh the horror.
I know, right? ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif) In most other contexts, they'd be a blessing. Such is the nature of Hell.
Posts: 2786 | From: the electrical field | Registered: Oct 2008
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RooK:
Don't forget our ability to be unfairly impractical. Which is done purely for entertainment.
Ours, or yours?
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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RooK
1 of 6
# 1852
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Posted
Sadism and masochism are closely related.
Posts: 15274 | From: Portland, Oregon, USA, Earth | Registered: Nov 2001
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
As Rook notes, the current incarnation of TICTH is still open and, as stated on the second post of the thread, will stay open* until we move platforms.
Also noted is the apparent need for something TICTH-ish. There is discussion twixt board hosts as to possible solutions, which include the current status quo.
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Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
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