|
Source: (consider it)
|
Thread: God spoke to me today!
|
Lord Jestocost
Shipmate
# 12909
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
People would regularly send in the most awful doggerel poems for inclusion (even though it didn't take poetry) with the claim that the 'Lord had given them' the verses.
As Gerald quips in The Theatrical Tapes of Leonard Thynn, "he was probably glad to get rid of it".
Our vicar once told a tale of a priest who was forever announcing that God had told him to do this, that and t'other. On one occasion he stood up in the middle of a meal and said that God had told him to phone a particular person. He slunk back in a minute later and muttered that the phone was engaged.
In that instance, I really could believe God had spoken to him - as a wake-up call to stop being such a prick.
Posts: 761 | From: The Instrumentality of Man | Registered: Aug 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
SusanDoris
Incurable Optimist
# 12618
|
Posted
PDA
Love your OP! I have to ask, why aren't you an atheist?! ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
--------------------
I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
Posts: 3083 | From: UK | Registered: May 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
PDA
Apprentice
# 16531
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by SusanDoris:
PDA
Love your OP! I have to ask, why aren't you an atheist?!
Being a Christian is more fun.
Posts: 40 | From: Essex | Registered: Jul 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
So, you do not think that God communicates with us at all I take it.
Apparently some of us don't hear very well. Spiritually deaf or something. I have been trying to get every Christian type of spiritual hearing aide working since I was a boy. I certainly have felt moved by what people have said to me, or from some piece of music, or some experience, but to ascribe this to hearing God is an attribution of authorship that seems to me to be rather dangerous. I have been guilty of doing this, and thought best to stop, particularly because it seemed to me that somehow I had to be in the right mood, situation, frame or atmosphere to 'get it'.
--------------------
Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
| IP: Logged
|
|
Green Mario
Shipmate
# 18090
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Arminian: I found it particularly irritating when worship leaders changed the songs during the service 'because the spirit told me to' when apparently the almighty couldn't tell the rest of us the day before during band practise.
This makes perfect sense from an open theology perspective though - perhaps the Almighty had new information compared with what he had the previous day. Or perhaps he just wanted to encourage you all to be a bit more spontaneous!
Seriously though while I understand the annoyance at the abuses of "God told me" and I think people should normally soften this given the potential for human error, mishearing and potential to confuse our own ideas and prejudices with what God actually said - if God doesn't "speak to us" it seems to call hugely into doubt the picture the New Testament paints of how God relates to us (as a Father, as a counsellor, as a comforter, leading us into all truth through the Holy Spirit, fellowship, etc. etc.)
Posts: 121 | Registered: Apr 2014
| IP: Logged
|
|
PDA
Apprentice
# 16531
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Green Mario:
quote:
Originally posted by Arminian: I found it particularly irritating when worship leaders changed the songs during the service 'because the spirit told me to' when apparently the almighty couldn't tell the rest of us the day before during band practise.
This makes perfect sense from an open theology perspective though - perhaps the Almighty had new information compared with what he had the previous day. Or perhaps he just wanted to encourage you all to be a bit more spontaneous!
Seriously though while I understand the annoyance at the abuses of "God told me" and I think people should normally soften this given the potential for human error, mishearing and potential to confuse our own ideas and prejudices with what God actually said - if God doesn't "speak to us" it seems to call hugely into doubt the picture the New Testament paints of how God relates to us (as a Father, as a counsellor, as a comforter, leading us into all truth through the Holy Spirit, fellowship, etc. etc.)
I personally am not saying that God doesnt speak to us.
But like the speaking in tongues and healing ect... I absolutely believe it does happen but just that the percentage of people who claim to have experienced it is vastly different to those that actually have.
That is not to say they are all bullshitting as some really believe they are experiencing these things for one reason or another but some are just bullshitting , others fooling themselves and some consumed by their own ego.
Posts: 40 | From: Essex | Registered: Jul 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
|
Posted
The point I was trying to make earlier is that "God spoke to me" is irrelevant. I don't need to know the process of generating your sermon - whether divine word or hours of study. What I am interested in is what you have understood from this, what the message you believe that God would have you speak to this congregation. That is what I assume when someone preaches. That is God speaking to people.
It means, when someone feels they have to claim divine authorship of their words, I am suspicious. It seems to mean one of:
1. This is not something I have bothered to work out, so I will claim divine inspiration instead.
2. Some people will disagree with this, so to dismiss any argument, I will attribute this to God.
3. I am right, and if you disagree with me you are wrong, because God speaks to me.
4. I have been on the odd mushrooms again.
None of these encourages me to listen or accept. If I agree, I agree for other reasons. If I disagree, your claim of divine inspiration would make no difference.
--------------------
Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
SusanDoris
Incurable Optimist
# 12618
|
Posted
PDA
Thank you for reply.
--------------------
I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
Posts: 3083 | From: UK | Registered: May 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
Green Mario
Shipmate
# 18090
|
Posted
SC in the context of a sermon I more or less agree although I think it can be useful to hear from people in a sermon the way they hear from God, how much weight they put on this versus their own reasoning, times when this seemed to be God speaking and times when they think they got it wrong.
In other situations (I am thinking for instance of a particular situation where I am often planning as part of a close team) it can be useful to know if someone is suggesting something because they think they have heard from God or because they think its a good idea that they have thought through logically.
If the rest of us can't see the logic (or think there are flaws in the plan) its more worthwhile probing the logic of the idea if they have followed a logical thought process; if they think God has spoken to them probing the logic of the idea is less fruitful - there still needs to be a weighing of the idea (unless its very low risk and nobody else has any suggestions!) but there is less to be gained by asking the person who made the suggestion what their thought process was.
Posts: 121 | Registered: Apr 2014
| IP: Logged
|
|
Fineline
Shipmate
# 12143
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
The point I was trying to make earlier is that "God spoke to me" is irrelevant. I don't need to know the process of generating your sermon - whether divine word or hours of study. What I am interested in is what you have understood from this, what the message you believe that God would have you speak to this congregation. That is what I assume when someone preaches. That is God speaking to people.
I find it can sometimes be interesting and helpful if a preacher talks about their own journey. Pastors often will mention something their spouse said to them, so why not also mention something God said to them? And if a pastor has had a revelation which has made an impact on how they see things, then they need a way to express this.
I find different people have different vocabulary for expressing and understanding their interaction and relationship with God - which is a hard thing to express as it is obviously not the same as the way we relate to each other. Some people find it easier to use everyday language, while others find it easier to use a completely different vocabulary. I remember once saying something to someone about talking to God, and he looked a bit puzzled and said 'What do you mean, talking to God? Do you mean praying?' To him, saying 'talking to God' was making it sound weird, but to me, that is a concrete context in which to understand it.
While I definitely see a problem in using the 'God spoke to me' to manipulate and control people, I don't think this automatically means pastors should never use it, or that it is irrelevant.
Posts: 2375 | From: England | Registered: Dec 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Green Mario
Shipmate
# 18090
|
Posted
I think that if a preacher thinks "God has spoken to them" it may be that it is better to give slightly more detail about what this means at least sometimes (rather than saying "God spoke to me"), i.e. don't fail to say that you think this is a revelation from God but let people know (at least sometimes) why you think God has spoken to you - wsa it a verse that was quickened to you, a thought that came to you with a different tone to your normal thinking process, a picture or a dream.
This removes the danger that people think you can't be contradicted because you are talking about a very objective form of communication- they see that you have a reason for thinking God spoke to you but also in most cases how subjective this is and the possibility of you being mistaken.
Posts: 121 | Registered: Apr 2014
| IP: Logged
|
|
Fineline
Shipmate
# 12143
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Green Mario:
I think that if a preacher thinks "God has spoken to them" it may be that it is better to give slightly more detail about what this means at least sometimes (rather than saying "God spoke to me"), i.e. don't fail to say that you think this is a revelation from God but let people know (at least sometimes) why you think God has spoken to you - wsa it a verse that was quickened to you, a thought that came to you with a different tone to your normal thinking process, a picture or a dream.
In my experience, preachers do expand on it - I've actually never come across a preacher who said 'God spoke to me' without giving some details of the process. Often they add an extra bit about how God can speak to people, and how it's generally not a voice booming from the sky, and the importance of praying about it and not jumping to conclusions, etc.
Posts: 2375 | From: England | Registered: Dec 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Bob Two-Owls
Shipmate
# 9680
|
Posted
One of the reasons I am no longer a Christian is that God spoke to everyone else in my church but not to me. I can take a hint.
Posts: 1262 | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Bob Two-Owls:
One of the reasons I am no longer a Christian is that God spoke to everyone else in my church but not to me. I can take a hint.
Well, I can add to that that I know quite a few people to whom God (apparently) spoke, who are not Christians.
So maybe he's not fussy.
--------------------
I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
|
Posted
If we're basically doing OK, have everything reasonably well handled, and need no additional instructions would God have anything he needs to say to us? On the otherhand, if your life is screwed up and you struggle through, perhaps that's when you need a more direct approach to being reassured that God is there.
Does this potentially explain the apparent correlation between those hearing God speak to them and less stable indivuals?
--------------------
Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
|
Posted
Some of them are probably nutty, but maybe God speaks to nutty people.
--------------------
I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
Bob Two-Owls
Shipmate
# 9680
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
If we're basically doing OK, have everything reasonably well handled, and need no additional instructions would God have anything he needs to say to us? On the otherhand, if your life is screwed up and you struggle through, perhaps that's when you need a more direct approach to being reassured that God is there.
I find that he tends to speak to the affluent middle class churchgoers quite often. He certainly didn't say a dickie bird to me when I was living in a pile of cardboard in a Sheffield carpark.
Posts: 1262 | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Raptor Eye
Shipmate
# 16649
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Bob Two-Owls:
I find that he tends to speak to the affluent middle class churchgoers quite often. He certainly didn't say a dickie bird to me when I was living in a pile of cardboard in a Sheffield carpark.
I've found quite the opposite, that God is more not less likely to have apparently spoken to and been consciously present with people who were less affluent, rather than 'middle class'.
It's how God speaks that perhaps is the crux of this.
--------------------
Be still, and know that I am God! Psalm 46.10
Posts: 4359 | From: The United Kingdom | Registered: Sep 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
If we're basically doing OK, have everything reasonably well handled, and need no additional instructions would God have anything he needs to say to us?
Forgive me, but this is beginning to sound a tiny bit like Homer Simpson saying, "God, if you don't want me to eat this donut, give me a sign." [Infinitesimal pause][Eats donut]
--------------------
"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Uriel
Shipmate
# 2248
|
Posted
I don't hear this in sermons, thankfully, but if I did I would say to the preacher afterwards:
"God's just spoken to me, and he says that he didn't tell you that at all, in fact he says you are suffering from paranoid delusions and could you please stop misquoting him."
See how they handle that message from the Lord.
Posts: 687 | From: Somerset, UK | Registered: Jan 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Green Mario
Shipmate
# 18090
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
If we're basically doing OK, have everything reasonably well handled, and need no additional instructions would God have anything he needs to say to us? On the otherhand, if your life is screwed up and you struggle through, perhaps that's when you need a more direct approach to being reassured that God is there.
Does this potentially explain the apparent correlation between those hearing God speak to them and less stable indivuals?
A bit like Jesus saying he came for the sinners rather than the righteous?
Posts: 121 | Registered: Apr 2014
| IP: Logged
|
|
Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
Some of them are probably nutty, but maybe God speaks to nutty people.
Maybe an acceptance of the divine communicating with us as individuals is so out of place in our society that it implies nuttiness?
Maybe telling people that God spoke to me indicates a lack of respect of social norms that implies mental instability?
Maybe "normal, well-adjusted people" will never accept that something is, in fact, a communication from the divine. Which says something about the society that we live in.
--------------------
Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
Some of them are probably nutty, but maybe God speaks to nutty people.
Just look at the OT prophets!
--------------------
Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
shamwari
Shipmate
# 15556
|
Posted
Martin Luther told how he tried to implement the "God spoke" philosophy when we went unprepared into the pulpit. Did not Jesus promise that "it will be given you in that hour what to say"?
After the service someone asked Luther; "Did God speak?"
"Yes" said Luther. He said " Martin you have been a very lazy man this week".
Posts: 1914 | From: from the abyss of misunderstanding | Registered: Mar 2010
| IP: Logged
|
|
MrsBeaky
Shipmate
# 17663
|
Posted
I've been offline for a few days whilst I wended my way home to Kenya and I'm now in a dilemma about which of several threads I should post this on as it seems to me there is considerable overlap going on....so please bear with me if you feel I've chosen the wrong one.
A few months ago I started a thread about a friend of mine who was going to visit a church which was hosting a "prophetic gathering". I seem to recall considerable heat in various comments on that thread all of which I understood. It seems to me the debates about hearing God's voice, the possibility of inexplicable happenings etc all boil down to whether or not we believe in a God who interacts with us.
If not, then of course all of the stuff under discussion on these threads is rightly subject to suspicion.
However if yes, then we face the challenge of sifting the wheat from the chaff and it's one heck of a challenge and a headache.
Back on the thread I started all those months ago, I concluded that my position had to be that I was respectful of the walk of others, no matter how at odds I felt with it.
But also I strongly believe that it is for us as individuals to decide whether or not the words of someone else in that moment become the voice of God, not for us to announce them as such which can to my mind be both personality and insecurity driven.
Finally,I've learned the hard way that it is a wise person who knows which insights gleaned through private devotions or which personal experiences are for public sharing and which are best kept safely in one's journal....
--------------------
"It is better to be kind than right."
http://davidandlizacooke.wordpress.com
Posts: 693 | From: UK/ Kenya | Registered: Apr 2013
| IP: Logged
|
|
SimonRockman
Apprentice
# 18155
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
I long for the day when a voice comes from heaven saying, "No I bloody didn't!"
Which of course would define God as being a Catholic God as "bloody" is a contraction of "By Our Lady".
I did once hear a rabbi, who was preaching when there was a thunderstorm say that rabbi's like it when there is a clap of thunder just at the right point in their oratory. They see it as affirmation.
Posts: 3 | From: London, England | Registered: Jul 2014
| IP: Logged
|
|
Printer-friendly view
