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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: "Great" books we hate
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
The Arthur Ransome series seemed to be describing children as adults would like us to be.... John Moore, James Hilton, Ian Hay, A. J. Cronin, Somerset Maugham, Nancy Mitford, and of course in those days the ubiquitous Conan Doyle. Apart from the latter, how many of those are read now.
I certainly read and re-read Nancy Mitford. I wouldn't have liked Arthur Ransome as a child, but I certainly enjoy reading and re-reading him now. And there is certainly a degree of camp in Ransome about how these children are total fantasists who always have to imagine a place or person is something different (except in We Didn't Mean To Go To Sea where potentially mortal reality creeps up on them like a fog.
I read Harry Potter when I was old enough to be a parent.
And I still read Somerset Maugham. I think he's one of the greatest writers I've ever read. At his best, he's one of those writers who never wastes a single word. He's got a dry, sparse style that sticks in your brain. It's like imbibing a very dry martini through your optic nerve.
On Harry Potter - yes, the more JKR wrote, the more she needed an editor. I borrowed each book in turn from a friend who really liked them. I struggled with Order of the Phoenix, and managed about two chapters of the next one before deciding I'd just stopped caring what happened to these people.
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
It is like selecting a friend to shop for a swim suit with. (For those of you who do this.) It is useless to bring along a friend who is uninterested in the fine points of fashion, or who is hopeless enamored of you. I brought my husband once, and it was a waste of both our times. Everything I wore was adorable and without peer -- a noble and laudable attitude in a spouse, but not so useful with swimsuits.
On the other hand, to bring along a friend who is too slender and toned is aggravating, especially if she is frank about cellulite or love handles. You want someone neither too hot nor too cold but just right, someone who will be supportive and positive (Oh, now that's a pretty color!) but truthful (but not on you, honey).
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
Hang on a minute - how did we get from dissing Hard Times and Tess of the D'urbervilles to copy editing and swimsuits?
Back to moaning about Moby Dick , people.
Firenze
Heaven Host
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
Yes'm. Sorry.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
People know about the Bad Sex Awards, right? They are awarded only for the sex scenes. I have always wondered whether the parent work, from which the scene was selected, is better.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
To which the answer is, as you well know, "Because you are too close to it, too heavily invested in it, and too enamoured of it, to see its flaws."
This is not quite true. It's more that if the writer hadn't spent the last how ever long training themselves to ignore the flaws the writer would never have actually finished.
Yes, but if there are remaining flaws, the author doesn't see them, or s/he wouldn't think s/he was ready to hand it off to an editor.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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jedijudy
Organist of the Jedi Temple
# 333
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Posted
Ahem! Repeating Firenze's instruction:
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
Hang on a minute - how did we get from dissing Hard Times and Tess of the D'urbervilles to copy editing and swimsuits?
Back to moaning about Moby Dick , people.
Firenze
Heaven Host
jedijudy
Heaven Host with a raised eyebrow and the 'Mama Look'
[ 07. December 2014, 02:04: Message edited by: jedijudy ]
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Jasmine, little cat with a big heart.
Posts: 18017 | From: 'Twixt the 'Glades and the Gulf | Registered: Aug 2001
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
Right, heh, sorry. ![[Hot and Hormonal]](icon_redface.gif)
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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JoannaP
Shipmate
# 4493
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by balaam:
quote:
Originally posted by Sherwood:
The Horse and his Boy by C.S. Lewis.
That and The Last Battle. But that still leaves 5 glorious Narnia books.
The Horse and his Boy is my favourite of the lot ![[Razz]](tongue.gif) .
I really loved the Swallows & Amazons as a child but re-reading them several years ago, it suddenly struck me that their campsites never have a loo tent and I have not been able to take them seriously since ![[Frown]](frown.gif) .
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"Freedom for the pike is death for the minnow." R. H. Tawney (quoted by Isaiah Berlin)
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin
Posts: 1877 | From: England | Registered: May 2003
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Garasu
Shipmate
# 17152
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by JoannaP:
quote:
Originally posted by balaam:
quote:
Originally posted by Sherwood:
The Horse and his Boy by C.S. Lewis.
That and The Last Battle. But that still leaves 5 glorious Narnia books.
The Horse and his Boy is my favourite of the lot .
I really loved the Swallows & Amazons as a child but re-reading them several years ago, it suddenly struck me that their campsites never have a loo tent and I have not been able to take them seriously since .
The last battle is a definite lapse into preaching. Is the problem with The horse and his boy to do with switching the perspective from an 'our world' protagonist to a 'their world' protagonist?
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"Could I believe in the doctrine without believing in the deity?". - Modesitt, L. E., Jr., 1943- Imager.
Posts: 889 | From: Surrey Heath (England) | Registered: Jun 2012
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
Some books simply have to be read at a certain point in life, or before a certain age. I missed Ransome until I was too old, and have never enjoyed them in consequence. (I suppose some day I could be old enough to read them again.)
Likewise there are books that you are not old enough to get the juice out of. I consider that I am still too young for Ulysses.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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Sparrow
Shipmate
# 2458
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by JoannaP:
I really loved the Swallows & Amazons as a child but re-reading them several years ago, it suddenly struck me that their campsites never have a loo tent and I have not been able to take them seriously since .
I always assumed they went in the lake! Although of course, they got their drinking water from the lake as well ....
And I loved The Horse and His Boy as well. I liked seeing Edmund, Susan and Lucy as grown ups, as well as the whole panorama of Calormen, Archenland and Narnia. And being a pony mad little girl I loved the horses as well.
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For I am persuaded that neither death, nor life,nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Posts: 3149 | From: Bottom right hand corner of the UK | Registered: Mar 2002
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The5thMary
Shipmate
# 12953
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Posted
I'm over most of these dumb vampire/werewolf books. Laurel K. Hamilton is always trotted out as this wonderful writer of fantasy and horror but I tried to read one book that had her sleeping and having sex with all these shape-shifters/werewolves and I just wanted to throw up. Every other chapter it seemed as though she was hopping into bed with a werewolf or a handsome vampire who had a penis the length of a cricket bat...who the hell wants to sleep with the undead? Bleccch! Her vampires and werewolves are like Stephenie Myers' vamps and werewolves. All are amazing in bed and all of them are beautiful. Sure. That's so tired. Sigh. If it wasn't vampires, it's werewolves or were-creatures. If it's not werewolves, it's the Fey. And all the Fey are beautiful and have gigantic penises...yeahhhh.
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God gave me my face but She let me pick my nose.
Posts: 3451 | From: Tacoma, WA USA | Registered: Aug 2007
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by JoannaP:
The Horse and his Boy is my favourite of the lot .
Same here. It is the most like a fairy tale, and the one that most stands on its own rather than filling a place in the chronology.
[ 08. December 2014, 00:09: Message edited by: mousethief ]
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Roselyn
Shipmate
# 17859
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Posted
We were set "Wind in the Willows" for the Intermediate Certificate c. 15/14 yrs old.
I cannot think of a worse age, too old; too young.
Posts: 98 | From: gold coast gld australia | Registered: Oct 2013
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Timothy the Obscure
Mostly Friendly
# 292
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
quote:
Originally posted by TurquoiseTastic:
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Originally posted by Evangeline:
Unfortunately by the time it got to book 4 in the series nobody was game enough to tell JK that her work needed editing.
YES
Hear that, editors out there? The more prolific an author gets, the more they need a ruthless editor.
There's a weird effect I've observed, especially in genre fiction (mystery and SF, mainly). Novice writers don't get edited, presumably because the publishers don't want to spend the money. One conspicuous example is P.C. Doherty, who writes historical mysteries (also under various pseudonyms). His early stuff is full of the most egregious errors--I mean basic grammatical mistakes, especially singular-plural agreement problems--but after the first half-dozen books it got better, possibly because he learned something, but more likely because the publisher decided he made enough profit to justify the expense of a copy editor.
The other end of the spectrum is (e.g.) Rowling where it's assumed that the profit is a given, so why risk alienating a golden goose by messing with her sentence structure...
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When you think of the long and gloomy history of man, you will find more hideous crimes have been committed in the name of obedience than have ever been committed in the name of rebellion.
- C. P. Snow
Posts: 6114 | From: PDX | Registered: May 2001
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
There is many a slip between cup and lip, behind the scenes. I have heard of the wrong version of the ms going to the printer -- the one before the copy edits and authorial fixes.
There are also authors who have the bulge to have a no-edit clause in their contract. This shows they are fools, because then their books appear on the shelves without a period at the end of a sentence, or other very obvious errors that anyone would wish to be fixed.
My favorite horror story involved the author who was writing a fat fantasy trilogy. About halfway along she decided that her hero should not be Robert, but Michael (or some such swap, I am not remembering the details). She was blitzing along so she just kept on writing about Michael. And she forgot to do a Global Search and Replace. So the front half of the trilogy is about the adventures of Robert, and then suddenly it all switches over to Michael. This passed through editoral, copy edit, proofread, and authorial okay. When it appeared on the bookshelves the poor readers complained that they really liked Robert, and who is this Michael guy that took over the end of the book?
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
Uh, guys? Remember the mom look? Otherwise known as a Host Post reminding us to get back to the topic?
There is a whole new shiny thread about editors in Heaven. Find it and use it.
Kelly Alves
Admin
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Chamois
Shipmate
# 16204
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Posted
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
quote:
I consider that I am still too young for Ulysses.
I'm ashamed to say that I love Ulysses. Joyce wrote like an angel but by golly he had a filthy mind. So I sort of feel that loving Ulysses reflects badly on my own mind.
Although I don't go around imagining the sort of stuff Joyce imagined. No, I don't. Really.
Posts: 978 | From: Hill of roses | Registered: Feb 2011
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venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
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Posted
I'm the only person I know who got all the Gilbert and Sullivan references in "Ulysses".
There is a scene where according to the commentaries, Bloom watches a young girl masturbating while in a neighbouring chapel there is Benediction of the Blessed Sacrament.
I got all the references to Benediction. I didn't understand about the other bit.
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Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
Posts: 3201 | From: An historic market town nestling in the folds of Surrey's rolling North Downs, | Registered: Sep 2011
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Palimpsest
Shipmate
# 16772
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Posted
The book that's sat the longest on my shelf without getting chucked is "The Tale of Genji". It seems impenetrable to me but too important to just discard.
Posts: 2990 | From: Seattle WA. US | Registered: Nov 2011
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Tea
Shipmate
# 16619
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Posted
Don Quixote. I wanted so much to enjoy it, but soon tired of Quixote's delusions of chivalric excellence. Unfortunately, Sancho Panza was no compensation; I remained unbeguiled.
Posts: 66 | From: USA | Registered: Aug 2011
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
Herodotus's Histories. I have a lovely HB volume of it here on the TBR bookcase, but have never gotten more than half-way along. (Although looking at it it is clear where Mary Renault was mining her material.)
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
I'm the only person I know who got all the Gilbert and Sullivan references in "Ulysses".
There is a scene where according to the commentaries, Bloom watches a young girl masturbating while in a neighbouring chapel there is Benediction of the Blessed Sacrament.
I got all the references to Benediction. I didn't understand about the other bit.
Well, they're both about exposures without consummation.
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My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com
Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
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