Source: (consider it)
|
Thread: Ex-gay ministries
|
Liopleurodon
Mighty sea creature
# 4836
|
Posted
Another gay Christian echoing this. By all means join LGCM if you want to. Can't hurt
-------------------- Our God is an awesome God. Much better than that ridiculous God that Desert Bluffs has. - Welcome to Night Vale
Posts: 1921 | From: Lurking under the ship | Registered: Aug 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Pretty Butterfly
Shipmate
# 15024
|
Posted
quote: Originally posted by Mr Clingford: I try to say to my fellow Christians that teh gays are alright, but if I wished to try to help change attitudes would joining the LGCM be a good idea? I'm straight so am I sticking my nose in and being patronising kind of thing or not?
I know very little about LGCM, so I can't say whether joining that particular organisation would be a good idea or not, but I don't think most people would find it would be patronising.
One of the things used to dismiss the often well-reasoned and carefully considered arguments for equal rights and recognition for same-sex relationships is the notion that these arguments arise only from the selfish desires of gay people trying to excuse their own sin. Having heterosexual Christians visibly standing with GLBT Christians shows that this is not the case.
Posts: 121 | From: UK | Registered: Aug 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
Qoheleth.
Semi-Sagacious One
# 9265
|
Posted
One of LGCM's straplines is:
quote: Lesbian & Gay Christians and our friends
(my bold)
Changing Attitude has a particularly strong campaigning focus, and has many straight supporters - which may interest you if you are an Anglican.
[Edited to fix URL] [ 13. November 2009, 19:13: Message edited by: TonyK ]
-------------------- The Benedictine Community at Alton Abbey offers a friendly, personal service for the exclusive supply of Rosa Mystica incense.
Posts: 2532 | From: the radiator of life | Registered: Apr 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Mrs Shrew
Ship's Mother
# 8635
|
Posted
i think there should have been a "k" at the end of that link, Qoheleth.
Also, echoing Liopleurodon, I say go ahead and join LGCM. Though I can see Arabella's ponit about separatist groups, I see LGCM as more of a subgroup (like a little circle of "people who don't think beign LGBT is a bad thing" inside the big circle "Christians" on a slightly surreal Venn Diagram).
-------------------- "The goal of life is not to make other people in your own image, it is to understand that they, too, are in God's image" (Orfeo) Was "mummyfrances".
Posts: 703 | From: York, England | Registered: Oct 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
leo
Shipmate
# 1458
|
Posted
quote: Originally posted by Qoheleth.: One of LGCM's straplines is:
quote: Lesbian & Gay Christians and our friends
(my bold)
Changing Attitude has a particularly strong campaigning focus, and has many straight supporters - which may interest you if you are an Anglican.
That's if you can get anyone to notice you. I tried to join it about 3 years ago but my cheque was never cashed. All e-mails to national HQ and to the local branch secretary went unanswered.
[Edited to fix URL] [ 13. November 2009, 19:11: Message edited by: TonyK ]
-------------------- My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/ My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com
Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Qoheleth.
Semi-Sagacious One
# 9265
|
Posted
quote: Originally posted by Mrs Shrew: i think there should have been a "k" at the end of that link, Qoheleth.
Indeed so. Apologies for the error. Perhaps a passing Host might assist, please?
Thanks
[Done as requested] [ 13. November 2009, 19:14: Message edited by: TonyK ]
-------------------- The Benedictine Community at Alton Abbey offers a friendly, personal service for the exclusive supply of Rosa Mystica incense.
Posts: 2532 | From: the radiator of life | Registered: Apr 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Qoheleth.
Semi-Sagacious One
# 9265
|
Posted
quote: Originally posted by leo: That's if you can get anyone to notice you. I tried to join it about 3 years ago but my cheque was never cashed. All e-mails to national HQ and to the local branch secretary went unanswered.
3 years ago was a long time ago. Why not try again....?
-------------------- The Benedictine Community at Alton Abbey offers a friendly, personal service for the exclusive supply of Rosa Mystica incense.
Posts: 2532 | From: the radiator of life | Registered: Apr 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
Mr Clingford
Shipmate
# 7961
|
Posted
Thanks for the replies. You've given me food (yum) for thought. And I do believe in truth, justice and the Anglican way.
-------------------- Ne'er cast a clout till May be out.
If only.
Posts: 1660 | From: A Fleeting moment | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Nicolaas
Apprentice
# 15325
|
Posted
Im new here so im just curious is all but isnt there a priavte board for these topics? it just amazes me (not that i have a problem with it but)
The moderators seem to be so strict on where things get posted yet anything like this seems to go just fine on any board pretty well.
Also that ie spell check dont seem to work for me anyone know where i can get one that would work with windows 7?
Posts: 7 | Registered: Dec 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
Louise
Shipmate
# 30
|
Posted
quote: Originally posted by Nicolaas: Im new here so im just curious is all but isnt there a priavte board for these topics? it just amazes me (not that i have a problem with it but)
The moderators seem to be so strict on where things get posted yet anything like this seems to go just fine on any board pretty well.
Also that ie spell check dont seem to work for me anyone know where i can get one that would work with windows 7?
Hosting
Dear Nicolaas, I dont think you have the hang of these boards at all. If you want to discuss moderation or what goes on which board or how the boards work, then that belongs on The Styx board. Also this is not the board for your technical queries, but you might get help for that in The Styx too. cheers, Louise
Hosting off
-------------------- Now you need never click a Daily Mail link again! Kittenblock replaces Mail links with calming pics of tea and kittens! http://www.teaandkittens.co.uk/ Click under 'other stuff' to find it.
Posts: 6918 | From: Scotland | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Taliesin
Shipmate
# 14017
|
Posted
is there a non-denominational group to join? Or does it have to be anglicans cos other branches are clear about 'ok' or 'not ok' ??
Posts: 2138 | From: South, UK | Registered: Aug 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Auntie Doris
Screen Goddess
# 9433
|
Posted
quote: Originally posted by Taliesin: is there a non-denominational group to join? Or does it have to be anglicans cos other branches are clear about 'ok' or 'not ok' ??
Sorry, a non-demonimational group for what?
Auntie Doris x
-------------------- "And you don't get to pronounce that I am not a Christian. Nope. Not in your remit nor power." - iGeek in response to a gay-hater :)
The life and times of a Guernsey cow
Posts: 6019 | From: The Rock at the Centre of the Universe | Registered: May 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
brightmorningstar
Shipmate
# 15354
|
Posted
Well nothing is impossible for God. Personally I suspect only God can effect a change to any sexual orientation. The new life in Christ comes through a change in heart and mind so that although one is still tempted and one may fall short, one no longer desires and seeks it. This is why organisations such as LGCM are not Christian organisations, having not had a change of heart and mind as the main raison d'etre indicates that.
Posts: 243 | From: London area | Registered: Dec 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
leo
Shipmate
# 1458
|
Posted
Rubbish - a 'change of heart' can be a change from self-hatred to self-acceptance, based on accepting that God's love is unconditional. Such a belief comes about by a leap of faith - faith that God is not the homophobe some portray him as and won't be assigning them to hell because of whom they love.
I know many members of LGCM because the local branch meets in my church- their holiness is deep.
-------------------- My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/ My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com
Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Amos
Shipmate
# 44
|
Posted
quote: Originally posted by brightmorningstar: Well nothing is impossible for God. Personally I suspect only God can effect a change to any sexual orientation.
Any sexual orientation you say, bms?
Perhaps we have here the lost verse from Isaiah? Something about making the gay straight and the straight gay, yea and keeping faith with the transgendered?
-------------------- At the end of the day we face our Maker alongside Jesus--ken
Posts: 7667 | From: Summerisle | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
|
Posted
Perhaps that's what he meant by 'And (make) the rough places smooth'.
-------------------- Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
brightmorningstar
Shipmate
# 15354
|
Posted
quote: Originally posted by leo: Rubbish - a 'change of heart' can be a change from self-hatred to self-acceptance,
To leo,
Rubbish! So say you but the word of God is clear. 2 Corinthians 10:5 “We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.” Romans 12:1 “Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God—this is your spiritual[a] act of worship. 2Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.”
God’s love and mercy is unconditional and His grace leads us to seeking Him in joy and gratitude. God so loved the world that He gave His only Son so that whoever believes shall not perish but have eternal life, if you think the gift of life is homophobic do you hate God? quote: because of whom they love.
Human ideas of love seem to be at odds with true love which is God and comes form God. Many Nazis did what they did for the love of the fatherland. To love ones neighbour as oneself one must love God with all ones heart and mind Mark 12:30 “Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.' quote: their holiness is deep.
Holiness in found in Christ, not in us. Such as statement isnt even selfrighteousness as it is an indentity in sin. 1 Corinthians 1:30 “It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God—that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption.” See also Romans 1:14, 6:22, Eph 4:24.
This is the essence of the problem with this gay theology, it isn’t just same sex error but the vast range of disbelief required behind it to attempt to justify it; hence why we see pluralism and the like prominent in the TEC as well.
[edited to insert proper quote code - L] [ 21. December 2009, 13:53: Message edited by: Louise ]
Posts: 243 | From: London area | Registered: Dec 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
Robert Armin
All licens'd fool
# 182
|
Posted
bms quoted Romans 12.2: "Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind."
It seems to me that this could be paraphrased as: "No longer follow the world in hating those who are different from you, but learn to love as God loves - without boundaries." which would rather undercut her/his argument.
(And bms, why have you chosen a name that links you to Lucifer? Have you not read Isaiah 14.12?)
-------------------- Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin
Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Louise
Shipmate
# 30
|
Posted
Dear brightmorningstar, If you're quoting other people's posts, then please learn to use the quote function.
When you look at a post, you'll see a row of little icons at the top - the one at the far right next to the little pen and paper icon shows inverted commas. Click on that to quote someone's entire post with attribution to that person.
To quote little bits of text, wait till you're already typing your reply, and then look below the reply window and you'll see the third button down on the first column of code buttons is marked 'QUOTE'. Click that button and then type what you want to put in quotes between the two tags in square brackets.
To get the hang of this and to practice- jut go to the UBB Practice thread in the Styx.
We ask people to learn to use the standard conventions of the board software because we have posters with disabilities and it makes it easier for them to read posts (and for everyone else!) if posts are formatted correctly.
So please learn to use the quotes function.
Many thanks, Louise
Dead Horses Host [ 21. December 2009, 14:07: Message edited by: Louise ]
-------------------- Now you need never click a Daily Mail link again! Kittenblock replaces Mail links with calming pics of tea and kittens! http://www.teaandkittens.co.uk/ Click under 'other stuff' to find it.
Posts: 6918 | From: Scotland | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
brightmorningstar
Shipmate
# 15354
|
Posted
To Robert Armin. quote: bms quoted Romans 12.2: "Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind."
It seems to me that this could be paraphrased as: "No longer follow the world in hating those who are different from you, but learn to love as God loves - without boundaries." which would rather undercut her/his argument.
On the contrary once again it seems people are unable to look at anything objectively but always subject to who it might involve. If one looks at Romans 12:2 one sees it refers to hating what is evil and clinging to what is good and testing what is good from the renewing of the mind to God. Once again therefore we go round in circles. The fact is the test is that God created male and female to be in union or celibacy Matt 19, Mark 10, Eph 5, 1 Cor 7 from Gen 2 etc and prohibits same sex relations 1 Cor 6, Romans 1 etc., that’s the renewing of the mind that acknowledges that. There is no mention in Romans 12:2 of God having no boundries, on the contrary it is exactly about the boundaries God has.
quote: (And bms, why have you chosen a name that links you to Lucifer? Have you not read Isaiah 14.12?)
No that’s the morning star, see bright morning star in Revelation which links to Christ. I have noticed that every time this is pointed out it is the Isaiah that is cited and by those who disagree with the scriptures about same sex.
Posts: 243 | From: London area | Registered: Dec 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
Jolly Jape
Shipmate
# 3296
|
Posted
quote: priginally posted by brightmorningstar
No that’s the morning star, see bright morning star in Revelation which links to Christ. I have noticed that every time this is pointed out it is the Isaiah that is cited and by those who disagree with the scriptures about same sex.
And, pray, what conclusion do you draw from this observation? [ 21. December 2009, 14:55: Message edited by: Jolly Jape ]
-------------------- To those who have never seen the flow and ebb of God's grace in their lives, it means nothing. To those who have seen it, even fleetingly, even only once - it is life itself. (Adeodatus)
Posts: 3011 | From: A village of gardens | Registered: Sep 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
brightmorningstar
Shipmate
# 15354
|
Posted
Well I could only make assumptions, have you any idea why posters who disagree with what the Bible says about same sex relations see the morning star link to Lucifer but not the bright morning star link to Jesus? The name means nothing to me the truth would still be Jesus and His teaching even if a poster called Lucifer posted it. After all Lucifer knows scripture and even demons shudder. Jesus quoted the word of God to Satan when Satan tempted Him, its the word of God that counts not who is speaking it.
Posts: 243 | From: London area | Registered: Dec 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
leo
Shipmate
# 1458
|
Posted
quote: Originally posted by Robert Armin: bms quoted Romans 12.2: "Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind."
It seems to me that this could be paraphrased as: "No longer follow the world in hating those who are different from you, but learn to love as God loves - without boundaries." which would rather undercut her/his argument.
(And bms, why have you chosen a name that links you to Lucifer? Have you not read Isaiah 14.12?)
You beat me to it.
-------------------- My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/ My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com
Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
leo
Shipmate
# 1458
|
Posted
quote: Originally posted by brightmorningstar: the Bible says ..... After all Lucifer knows scripture and even demons shudder. Jesus quoted the word of God to Satan when Satan tempted Him, its the word of God that counts not who is speaking it.
The Bible does not SAY anything at all. It is a collection of books, not a human being with a tongue.
As for the devil quoting scripture, that cuts both ways.
As for calling some people evil, that might well be the sin against the holy Spirit so take care what you say.
You can quote proof texts all you like but have you ever met a gay Christian and heard his/her testimony?
-------------------- My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/ My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com
Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Robert Armin
All licens'd fool
# 182
|
Posted
So, bms, you take one of the titles of Christ and apply it you yourself, and are happy to call anyone who disagrees with you "Lucifer"? That does seem deeply humble of you.
As for: quote: its the word of God that counts not who is speaking it
I am (once again) confused by your argument here. In the Temptation Jesus was not the only one to quote scripture, the Devil did as well. So what point are you making?
-------------------- Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin
Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
brightmorningstar
Shipmate
# 15354
|
Posted
To leo, quote: The Bible does not SAY anything at all. It is a collection of books, not a human being with a tongue.
A book never has been oral, I don’t see your point.
quote: As for the devil quoting scripture, that cuts both ways.
So where did you get the idea of the devil and the devil quoting scripture, from me or the Bible?
quote: As for calling some people evil, that might well be the sin against the holy Spirit so take care what you say.
I haven’t said anyone is evil I have made a specific point of distinguishing the acts people may do that are error and wrong.
quote: You can quote proof texts all you like
I know I have nad you haven’t and cant, that’s why there is no such thing as a gay christian, its an oxymoron, and their testimony is subsequently error as well, though there are Christians who do have same sex attractions but they are Christians and have their identity in Christ.
Posts: 243 | From: London area | Registered: Dec 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
brightmorningstar
Shipmate
# 15354
|
Posted
To Robert Armin, quote: and are happy to call anyone who disagrees with you "Lucifer"? That does seem deeply humble of you.
That does not seem very honest of you as I have never called anyone Lucifer and wouldn’t be happy to. Are you interested in debating or merely discussing me?
Posts: 243 | From: London area | Registered: Dec 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
Louise
Shipmate
# 30
|
Posted
hosting
A reminder that any personal arguments should be taken to the Hell board - thanks! An argument about a username doesn't belong here.
cheers, L
Dead Horses host /hosting
-------------------- Now you need never click a Daily Mail link again! Kittenblock replaces Mail links with calming pics of tea and kittens! http://www.teaandkittens.co.uk/ Click under 'other stuff' to find it.
Posts: 6918 | From: Scotland | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
ToujoursDan
Ship's prole
# 10578
|
Posted
Another good resource for gay Christians is gaychristian.net
There are discussion boards for different denominations, prayer and support boards, boards for "Side B" Christians (those who believe God calls us to celibacy) as well as "Side A" Christians (those who believe a monogamous relationship is morally acceptable) and all kinds of other resources.
-------------------- "Many people say I embarrass them with my humility" - Archbishop Peter Akinola Facebook link: http://www.facebook.com/toujoursdan
Posts: 3734 | From: NYC | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
ToujoursDan
Ship's prole
# 10578
|
Posted
I should add that I also believe God can change someone's sexual orientation. However, given the nearly universal inability to change a person's sexual orientation through therapy, prayer or healing, it seems that God's answer to such a request is "No".
-------------------- "Many people say I embarrass them with my humility" - Archbishop Peter Akinola Facebook link: http://www.facebook.com/toujoursdan
Posts: 3734 | From: NYC | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
leo
Shipmate
# 1458
|
Posted
quote: Originally posted by brightmorningstar: To leo, quote: As for the devil quoting scripture, that cuts both ways.
So where did you get the idea of the devil and the devil quoting scripture, from me or the Bible?
You bought it up. We are both, presumably, thinking of the account of Jesus's temptations in the wilderness. You are sure that you are quoting Jesus rather than the devil but I suggest you may have got it wrong.
-------------------- My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/ My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com
Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
leo
Shipmate
# 1458
|
Posted
quote: Originally posted by brightmorningstar: there is no such thing as a gay christian, its an oxymoron, and their testimony is subsequently error as well,
That's very convenient for you because it means that you will never have to listen to anyone whose life experience is different from yours. You'll never have to be upset into rethinking your prejudices.
In fact, you seem to know the mind of God so well that I propose that God had a day off and you can take over his role. Then, perhaps, just perhaps, you'll see how complex things are from His point of view because He knows what is in all our hearts and He, alone, knows the faith experience of LGB Christians.
-------------------- My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/ My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com
Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
iGeek
Number of the Feast
# 777
|
Posted
quote: Originally posted by Mr Clingford: I try to say to my fellow Christians that teh gays are alright, but if I wished to try to help change attitudes would joining the LGCM be a good idea? I'm straight so am I sticking my nose in and being patronising kind of thing or not?
Good suggestions above (LGCM, GayChristian.Net, ChangingAttitude). I would add to it Ekklesia and SoulForce.
GCN doesn't advocate, per se. It's more of a support ministry and embraces Christians with a range of belief, as Dan has noted and aptly described. Non-queer folk are active and welcome.
Posts: 2150 | From: West End, Gulfopolis | Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
iGeek
Number of the Feast
# 777
|
Posted
quote: Originally posted by brightmorningstar: that’s why there is no such thing as a gay christian, its an oxymoron
I'm gay. I'm a Christian. Your erroneous assertion now rebutted with example. I know hundreds more counterpoints as well.
Posts: 2150 | From: West End, Gulfopolis | Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
ToujoursDan
Ship's prole
# 10578
|
Posted
Gay Christian here too.
God has heard and responded to my prayers and transformed my life. That transformation made me a gay Christian that I am today, a sinner trying to be more Christlike.
(And there have been many times where I have wanted to chuck the whole thing but God keeps calling me back.)
-------------------- "Many people say I embarrass them with my humility" - Archbishop Peter Akinola Facebook link: http://www.facebook.com/toujoursdan
Posts: 3734 | From: NYC | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
|
Posted
Straight Christian checking in here to say: I have known many, many gay Christians, not a few of which were far better Christians than I. Being a Christian has to do with being in a certain relationship to God. Being a good Christian has to do with loving God and loving one's neighbour as oneself. None of which precludes being gay.
At bottom, I've not yet met any gay Christians who were a third as judgmental and uncharitable and unchristlike as people who say they don't exist taken as a group.
-------------------- This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
leo
Shipmate
# 1458
|
Posted
quote: Originally posted by mousethief: Straight Christian checking in here to say: I have known many, many gay Christians, not a few of which were far better Christians than I. Being a Christian has to do with being in a certain relationship to God. Being a good Christian has to do with loving God and loving one's neighbour as oneself. None of which precludes being gay.
At bottom, I've not yet met any gay Christians who were a third as judgmental and uncharitable and unchristlike as people who say they don't exist taken as a group.
Good post - and thanks to all above who have given their testimonies above, whom one of our posters calls 'oxymorons'. I have been given a hostly warning so I have to be careful not to use the word 'moron' about anyone.
-------------------- My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/ My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com
Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
leo
Shipmate
# 1458
|
Posted
Sorry but I have probably overstepped the mark here - but in a worthy cause. It is really good to read the testimony of LGB Christians and the way their faith has been tested against the trad. teachings.
The problem with this 'inclusive church' shit is that we have to include homophobes too.
I find that difficult because I know with whom I would rather party.
-------------------- My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/ My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com
Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Jahlove
Tied to the mast
# 10290
|
Posted
leo, doncha recognize a WUM when you see one? Happy Christmas
-------------------- “Sing like no one's listening, love like you've never been hurt, dance like nobody's watching, and live like its heaven on earth.” - Mark Twain
Posts: 6477 | From: Alice's Restaurant (UK Franchise) | Registered: Sep 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
RooK
1 of 6
# 1852
|
Posted
If a Tony or Louise has to post another reminder about making personal attacks, leo and Jahlove, you're going to be suspended.
Happy Festivus.
-RooK Admin
Posts: 15274 | From: Portland, Oregon, USA, Earth | Registered: Nov 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
|
Posted
I am a gay Christian, in my daydreams I may also be Spartacus.
-------------------- All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Welease Woderwick
Sister Incubus Nightmare
# 10424
|
Posted
I am gay though I am probably not a Christian and would certainly not claim to be one. I once spent a cheerful[?] afternoon with a leading light of the British ex-gay ministries movement whilst he reminisced about his cottaging career - it was not an illuminating time though I gather he rather enjoyed his trip down memory lane. I wonder now if he writes smutty tales for internet story sites.
-------------------- I give thanks for unknown blessings already on their way. Fancy a break in South India? Accessible Homestay Guesthouse in Central Kerala, contact me for details What part of Matt. 7:1 don't you understand?
Posts: 48139 | From: 1st on the right, straight on 'til morning | Registered: Sep 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
brightmorningstar
Shipmate
# 15354
|
Posted
To leo, quote: You bought it up.
If as you say it cuts both ways then you must believe it too, so my questions remains, where did you get the idea from apart form the Bible and how come you expect me to think the texts mean what is written when you don’t with the passages that exclude and condemn same sex sex? The trust of my argument in the post in question has once again been ignored. its the word of God that counts not who is speaking it.
quote: That's very convenient for you because it means that you will never have to listen to anyone whose life experience is different from yours. You'll never have to be upset into rethinking your prejudices.
I am always listening to peoples experience that is different from mine both from believers and non-believers. Are you in the slightest bit interested in God’s purposes or just te promotion of same sex and remarks about what I do and think?
quote: In fact, you seem to know the mind of God so well that I propose that God had a day off and you can take over his role.
I do know the mind of God where God’s mind has been revealed in scripture, if you don’t where do you get your ideas about God and its no wonder you don’t know the mind of God.
Posts: 243 | From: London area | Registered: Dec 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
brightmorningstar
Shipmate
# 15354
|
Posted
Gay christiam is an oxymoron, its like blue orange. Christ affirmed that God created male and female to be united and gave celibacy as the alternative. In Adam we die and in Christ we live that means all people fall short in sin, and are forgiven in repentance through Christ. There is no more a gay christian than an adulterous christian who seeks adultery, a theiving christian who promotes theft and a lying christian who thinks lying is perfectly ok. The identity of those in Christ is in Christ, not in sexual desires or sinful desires. gay and lesbian is a movement of sin in the church, it is a core departure from the gospel.
Posts: 243 | From: London area | Registered: Dec 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
Welease Woderwick
Sister Incubus Nightmare
# 10424
|
Posted
The "Cracked Record" technique is really useful within Assertiveness skills but it gets rather wearing in a supposed discussion forum as it means that the person using it is not entering into any form of discussion.
However, foolish as it may seem and as I am not a Christian so have nothing to lose, I would ask why does quoting stuff from the Bible have any relevance to this discussion? What we are talking about is damaging a person's psyche so that they can better meet the expectations of others - surely this is not a very Christian way to behave.
-------------------- I give thanks for unknown blessings already on their way. Fancy a break in South India? Accessible Homestay Guesthouse in Central Kerala, contact me for details What part of Matt. 7:1 don't you understand?
Posts: 48139 | From: 1st on the right, straight on 'til morning | Registered: Sep 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
brightmorningstar
Shipmate
# 15354
|
Posted
The link provided is again wrong. There is no problem for any Christians who have same sex attraction, they are Christians, the problem is people who want to be gay christians, that suggests they are not yet Christians. The latter have bought into a lie and are looking at the gospel through the lie. There is no straight or gay concept in God's creation, just male and female. Heterosexual and homosexual are meaningless. Heterosexual is as meaningless as homosexual as adultery is also sinful and is heterosexual.
So in the site given we have the idea that God blesses gay relationships, which God actually detests as error and against His creation purpose. We also have the idea that gay people as opposed to straight, neither of which exist in God's eyes, are called to be celibate. Thats a sexually based concept, people ae called to follow and worship God, not identify themselves according to their feelings and make God's creation adapt. The person who has same sex attractions is no different with God than anyone who has opposite sex attractions. The whole thinking has nothing to do with excluding people who has same sex attraction, its about a sinful concept attacking the truth.
Posts: 243 | From: London area | Registered: Dec 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
chiltern_hundred
Shipmate
# 13659
|
Posted
Non-heterosexual male Christian checking in to say Happy Christmas to gay and straight Christians and even the Pharisees and to add that I think I am probably called to celibacy (not because I like the idea but because I'm not cut out for faithful monogamy and nobody could bear to live with me) but not everyone is and it takes time for people to grow and discover how best they can serve God.
It is grossly unreasonable to require gay people to "change" (although they may change anyway) or to accept celibacy straight off. Chastity is very difficult and celibacy needs to be discerned and worked at.
Christianity is not in the instant results business; it is (as the late great Neville Ward put it) a faith rather than a washing powder.
Thank you for your attention.
Please adjust your dress before leaving.
-------------------- "I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use." - Galileo Galilei
Posts: 691 | From: Duck City, UK | Registered: Apr 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
brightmorningstar
Shipmate
# 15354
|
Posted
Hi ciltern_hundred, There is no such concept in God’s creation purpose as heterosexual or homosexual. If it grossly unreasonable for gay people to change then I see no reason why thieving people and lying people should change either. However God’s word shows, and there are people to testify it, that believers are those who have changed their minds and hearts in obedience to Christ.
Posts: 243 | From: London area | Registered: Dec 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|