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Source: (consider it) Thread: Kill the Christians
Laud-able

Ship's Ancient
# 9896

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Martin60,

I did not claim that we were the ‘good’ guys: I wrote that we were the ‘not-so-bad’ guys.

I do not know what you mean by redemptive violence. And in the battle to defeat Japan there was no time for ‘non-violent subversion’. I shared then – and still share – the view that if the life of only one Allied man or woman might be saved by devastating the enemy, that devastation was necessary.

I do not believe that the vile behaviour of the Japanese can be attributed to Commodore Perry’s ending of the isolation of Japan. One of Perry’s remits was to secure decent treatment of US castaways, a requirement written into the treaty that Perry effected in 1854. The Japanese fear/hatred/abuse of foreigners was at least as old as the 1590s and the Nagasaki Martyrs.

In August 1944 more than 1,100 Japanese prisoners of war attempted to escape from a POW camp near Cowra, about 300 kms (190 miles) west of Sydney in New South Wales. It was the largest prison escape of the Second World War. They killed four Australian soldiers, two of whom - Private Ben Hardy and Private Ralph Jones - were posthumously awarded the George Cross. 231 Japanese died: the rest were recaptured. Many of the dead Japanese had killed themselves or had been killed by fellow prisoners. The whole affair was suicidal madness: they weren’t going anywhere – they were marooned on the smallest continent (or the largest island) in the world.

I don’t know – or indeed much care to know – why the Japanese chose to behave as they did throughout the war. But they did what they did, and we loathed them for it, and we rejoiced in their destruction.

--------------------
'. . . "Non Angli, sed Angeli" "not Angels, but Anglicans"', Sellar, W C, and Yeatman, R J, 1066 and All That, London, 1930, p. 6.

Posts: 279 | From: Melbourne, Australia | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
Moo

Ship's tough old bird
# 107

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I have read a book, Yokohama Burning, which argues that the extreme social disruption caused by the 1923 earthquake gave the military the opportunity to greatly enhance its power.

After the quake, martial law was declared in the affected areas, and the military enjoyed the power they were given at that time.

Japan's interest in conquest and its ruthless treatment of the local people were clear before 1900. Here is a *passage from Yokohama Burning which illustrates this.
quote:
At the time of the earthquake, two hundred thousand Koreans lived in Japan, including about twelve thousand in the Tokyo-Yokohama area. Almost all of them were young men, and they were the most despised--and the most vulnerable--members of Japanese society. The Japanese had occupied Korea in 1895, after destroying the rival Chinese naval-fleet at the Yalu River dividing China from the Korean peninsula.... In the years since then Japan, the expanding empire, had tightened its stranglehold on the weak and undeveloped country, deposing the emperor, declaring Korea a protectorate in 1907, and annexing the peninsula three years later. The Japanese occupiers had forced Korean schools to teach Japanese, shut down all newspapers, seized private property, banned political activity, and jailed thousands of dissidents. Ferryboats overloaded with desperate Korean men crossed the Straits of Japan daily....Deprived of economic opportunity in their own country, the Koreans were willing to work cheap, which made them popular among contractors, but hated by Japanese laborers.
Of the twelve thousand Koreans in the earthquake area, four thousand were taken into protective custody. Most of the rest were massacred. The book gives the details of some massacres.

The Japanese conviction of their own ethnic superiority gave them the idea that they could treat people of other ethnicity with extreme savagery.

*Joshua Hammer:Yokohama Burning Free Press New York 2006. p.154

Moo

Moo

--------------------
Kerygmania host
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See you later, alligator.

Posts: 20365 | From: Alleghany Mountains of Virginia | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740

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Going back to the Middle East, some journos are reporting that heavy weapons are being sent to some rebel groups in Syria, provoking US anxiety that radical groups might advance, e.g. the Nusra Front. Turkey is also involved, reflecting their impatience with US indecision.

However, stories like this crop up every few months, and may be propaganda, or anti-Iranian rhetoric. I guess that many Christians still feel safer with Assad, those that have survived.

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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.

Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011  |  IP: Logged
Martin60
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# 368

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quote:
Originally posted by Laud-able:
Martin60,

I did not claim that we were the ‘good’ guys: I wrote that we were the ‘not-so-bad’ guys.


Never said you did mate. Indeed you did.

I do not know what you mean by redemptive violence.

It's out there. Try Wikipedia. Especially the section on Triumph.

And in the battle to defeat Japan there was no time for ‘non-violent subversion’.

Aye, you can't have your cake and eat it.

I shared then – and still share – the view that if the life of only one Allied man or woman might be saved by devastating the enemy, that devastation was necessary.

So the nearly three million Japanese dead were worth the thirty million allied dead? Who was saved? Apart from all in Christ?

I do not believe that the vile behaviour of the Japanese can be attributed to Commodore Perry’s ending of the isolation of Japan. One of Perry’s remits was to secure decent treatment of US castaways, a requirement written into the treaty that Perry effected in 1854. The Japanese fear/hatred/abuse of foreigners was at least as old as the 1590s and the Nagasaki Martyrs.

Aye, just a piece of the redemptive violence jigsaw of western imperialism. Like the American genocide in the Philippines.

In August 1944 more than 1,100 Japanese prisoners of war attempted to escape from a POW camp near Cowra, about 300 kms (190 miles) west of Sydney in New South Wales. It was the largest prison escape of the Second World War. They killed four Australian soldiers, two of whom - Private Ben Hardy and Private Ralph Jones - were posthumously awarded the George Cross. 231 Japanese died: the rest were recaptured. Many of the dead Japanese had killed themselves or had been killed by fellow prisoners. The whole affair was suicidal madness: they weren’t going anywhere – they were marooned on the smallest continent (or the largest island) in the world.

Aye, that's redemptive violence for you.

I don’t know – or indeed much care to know – why the Japanese chose to behave as they did throughout the war. But they did what they did, and we loathed them for it, and we rejoiced in their destruction.

Two sides of the same redemptive violence coin.

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Love wins

Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Laud-able

Ship's Ancient
# 9896

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Martin60:
Thank you for the pointer to Professor Walter Wink.

I read his paper Facing the Myth of Redemptive Violence in which he begins with the ‘psychodynamics’ [his word] of Popeye, Olive Oyl, and Bluto, and invokes the Babylonian creation stories as an element in his pronouncement that ‘What appears so innocuous in cartoons is, in fact, the mythic underpinnings of our violent society.’

Professor Wink appears to be among those who suffer from the curse of a literal mind. I am reminded of the 1936 Punch cartoon in which an elderly woman in a cinema, watching Disney’s Donald Duck and Pluto, says to her companion ‘I’m so afraid there’s cruelty in their training.’

Professor Wink also writes in The Powers That Be:
‘By turning the cheek, the servant makes it impossible for the master to use the backhand: his nose is in the way… The left cheek now offers a perfect target for a blow with the right fist; but only equals fought with fists, as we know from Jewish sources, and the last thing the master wishes to do is to establish this underling’s equality. This act of defiance renders the master incapable of asserting his dominance in this relationship … By turning the cheek, then, the “inferior” is saying, “I’m a human being, just like you. I refuse to be humiliated any longer. I am your equal. I won’t take it anymore.”’

If these words are meant as practical advice to be applied in all confrontations they are twaddle. Individual people may choose such a course of action, but at a national level it is sometimes necessary to destroy aggressors. Of course not all wars are just wars, but the implication that the Allies should have submitted to the Axis powers in the Second World War is not to be considered.

You and I shall never see eye-to-eye on this matter, but I thank you at least for making me aware of another -ism/-ist.

--------------------
'. . . "Non Angli, sed Angeli" "not Angels, but Anglicans"', Sellar, W C, and Yeatman, R J, 1066 and All That, London, 1930, p. 6.

Posts: 279 | From: Melbourne, Australia | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
Martin60
Shipmate
# 368

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You're welcome Laud-able. Nice rhetoric. The curse of the literal mind is a subtle one isn't it?

I agree - how can one not? - that in a system (I wonder what the Biblical metaphor for that is?) that creates Axis powers it is inevitable that the system will be compelled to destroy them. In its fear it knows nothing else. Like its apologists.

Come out of her my people.

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Love wins

Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged



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