|
Source: (consider it)
|
Thread: To all the lefties on here
|
Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Arethosemyfeet:
Addendum: the SWP are shouty middle-class wannabees....
Small tangent: has anyone ever met any (or more than a token number of) SWP members who are 'workers' rather than 'intellectuals'? I don't think I ever have. Pretty much all the SWP people I've ever met have been teachers or academics or voluntary sector people.
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Anglican't
Shipmate
# 15292
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink.:
Corbyn is really not hard left - hard left would be folk like the socialist workers party.
Who are behind, for example, the Stop the War Coalition, which Jeremy Corbyn chaired until very recently. Sometimes difficult to see where the line is.
Posts: 3613 | From: London, England | Registered: Nov 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
|
Posted
It's usually quite easy to spot the SWP. For a start, they almots always seem to use the same typeface and layout on their materials.
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Anglican't:
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink.:
Corbyn is really not hard left - hard left would be folk like the socialist workers party.
Who are behind, for example, the Stop the War Coalition, which Jeremy Corbyn chaired until very recently. Sometimes difficult to see where the line is.
It was founded at a meeting in Friends House, does that make him a Quaker ?
[ 25. October 2015, 17:39: Message edited by: Doublethink. ]
--------------------
All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
quote:
Originally posted by Arethosemyfeet:
Addendum: the SWP are shouty middle-class wannabees....
Small tangent: has anyone ever met any (or more than a token number of) SWP members who are 'workers' rather than 'intellectuals'? I don't think I ever have. Pretty much all the SWP people I've ever met have been teachers or academics or voluntary sector people.
These people don't work ?
--------------------
All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink.:
It was founded at a meeting in Friends House, does that make him a Quaker ?
No, why would it?
YMM well V but the man is an atheist who wants to abolish the monarchy, and there are way too many question marks hanging over his head at this early stage. I wouldn't trust him any further than I could throw him. Also, he's scruffy.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
|
Posted
Likewise the fact the SWP were involved inthe Stop the War Coallition doesn't make him somehow secretly a member.
--------------------
All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
the man is an atheist who wants to abolish the monarchy...Also, he's scruffy.
You say it like those are bad things.
Besides, those are boxes I tick myself....
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
I wouldn't trust him any further than I could throw him.
And you would trust Cameron? Who lies at every opportunity? And who put his know in a pigs head?
I don't agree with Corbyn on everything, but I would trust him to do what he says. That is a radical change from leading politicians for many years.
--------------------
Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
|
Posted
Summarizing people by a single dimension like left handedness is no more sensible than summarizing people by calling them booklovers or Stupid White People which is the usual meaning of SWP.
--------------------
Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
| IP: Logged
|
|
balaam
Making an ass of myself
# 4543
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
I wouldn't trust him any further than I could throw him.
And you would trust Cameron? Who lies at every opportunity? And who put his know in a pigs head?
I don't agree with Corbyn on everything, but I would trust him to do what he says. That is a radical change from leading politicians for many years.
This is where it stands. Who do you trust?
If Corbyn gets into power and does not keep his promises then his popularity will dive quicker than a very fast diving thing. His popularity is because he is seen as honest, not on policies. If that goes he will not see the term out.
--------------------
Last ever sig ...
blog
Posts: 9049 | From: Hen Ogledd | Registered: May 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
Summarizing people by a single dimension like left handedness is no more sensible than summarizing people by calling them booklovers or Stupid White People which is the usual meaning of SWP.
Not all white people are stupid. Some of my best friends are white, so I know.
--------------------
I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
|
Posted
I am mostly white and at least intermittently stupid. Though I have thought losing my hair and going bald is at least as likely the cause of my stupidity.
I typed this with my right index finger. Does that mean I am not a lefty?
--------------------
Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
| IP: Logged
|
|
Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
|
Posted
Drat. I thought this was going to be about lefthandedness. Instead it's just a sock.
Oh well, my dog can get her teeth into it, anyway.
--------------------
Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
And you would trust Cameron? Who lies at every opportunity? And who put his know in a pigs head?
Yes, I trust him a lot more than I do Corbyn. I don't agree with everything the Conservatives do and I think they've got it wrong on some points, but they're the least worst option. I don't think Cameron lies at every opportunity either.
quote:
I don't agree with Corbyn on everything, but I would trust him to do what he says. That is a radical change from leading politicians for many years.
I don't trust him to do what he says - and I don't agree with him on much anyway. My gut feeling is that if ever he got into power, he'd dump any attempt to be reasonable and bankrupt the country within a week. As I said, YMMV.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
My gut feeling is that if ever he got into power, he'd dump any attempt to be reasonable and bankrupt the country within a week. As I said, YMMV.
You mean you think he'd finish the job Cameron started?
--------------------
I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
|
Posted
I have to say that as an outsider (but spending part of my time in the UK), I'm a bit astonished by the level of irrational Corbyn demonisation that's going around.
--------------------
I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
|
Posted
Apparently only men in smart dark suits are to be trusted, if you meet any who ask for your bank details it is perfectly fine to give them to these upstanding gentlemen. Don't trust any scruffy nerds who tell you not to, you can tell they're mischief making cos they don't iron.
[ 25. October 2015, 20:07: Message edited by: Doublethink. ]
--------------------
All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
|
Posted
Attlee and Bevan are in their graves, alas. Jeremy (who, like me, was born when this was not the case) is the last glow of that fire that held the poor deserved education and health and housing as much as the rich. The council houses and the grant-funded university are shot and the NHS is being pulled down, but they're still ideas to fight for.
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
quote:
Originally posted by Arethosemyfeet:
Addendum: the SWP are shouty middle-class wannabees....
Small tangent: has anyone ever met any (or more than a token number of) SWP members who are 'workers' rather than 'intellectuals'? I don't think I ever have. Pretty much all the SWP people I've ever met have been teachers or academics or voluntary sector people.
We used to live in an area which was a mixture of student-poor and downright-poor. One of our neighbours was an academic and a member of the SWP. Bizarrely, instead of sending his son to the nearest school, he put in a placing request and got him into a school in a far more middle class area. ![[Disappointed]](graemlins/disappointed.gif)
Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
Louise
Shipmate
# 30
|
Posted
I'm not a great fan of Corbyn because though his heart's in the right place domestically, I think that in foreign policy terms, he's far too close to various idiots and his appointment of Seumas Milne rather undermines claims that he's been unfairly traduced for just sharing platforms with people.
However, the policies most likely to cripple the economy are the austerity policies of the conservatives which damped down the British economic recovery and had to be relaxed a bit to prevent disaster. They're based on research which was thoroughly discredited ages ago.
Austerity plan is failing, IMF tells Osborne
The IMF Admits It Was Wrong About Keynesianism
If you can't stand Corbyn and are worried about the economy at least vote for one of the other non-austerity parties.
[ 25. October 2015, 20:17: Message edited by: Louise ]
--------------------
Now you need never click a Daily Mail link again! Kittenblock replaces Mail links with calming pics of tea and kittens! http://www.teaandkittens.co.uk/ Click under 'other stuff' to find it.
Posts: 6918 | From: Scotland | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Twilight
Puddleglum's sister
# 2832
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.:
quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:
I'm not complaining about Barnabas's hosting, don't tell me to take it to Styx, I'm using that as an example of what I see as a general fear of controversy that's beginning to make the ship sound, "boring and self-righteous."
Sounds to me like a complaint about hosting thinly disguised as concern about "fear of controversy."
Or maybe just they're just two things crudely stitched together, like a lovely monkey-pony pet!
Then let me explain further: When the hosts start sending out advance warnings to people, telling them not to respond to a particular post because they think they can read that person's mind and predict that their reaction might be irritation or even, gasp anger. What would you can that if not fear of controversy?
As to why I would not take this to Styx: First, I was not upset with Barnabas's hosting in particular, he just happened to be the Host enforcing the preferred tone of civility at that moment. Second, as far as I've ever observed it, "Take hosting complaints to Styx," never results in anything but a huge pile of people saying, "Our hosts are volunteers and so we should never say anything to them but thank you, you ungrateful wretch." Which is all good and true, but doesn't really allow for any airing of differences or even explanations.
Posts: 6817 | Registered: May 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Louise
Shipmate
# 30
|
Posted
( If I lived in England though, I would vote for Corbyn any day of the week rather than a Tory. What the Conservatives are doing to the poor, disabled and unemployed is evil. Nothing justifies voting for them.)
--------------------
Now you need never click a Daily Mail link again! Kittenblock replaces Mail links with calming pics of tea and kittens! http://www.teaandkittens.co.uk/ Click under 'other stuff' to find it.
Posts: 6918 | From: Scotland | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
|
Posted
I just missed the May local elections, where I guess I could have voted as an EU citizen. I probably would have voted Green.
--------------------
I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
|
Posted
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seumas_Milne
I take it it is not Seamus Milne's time at The Economist you object to ?
--------------------
All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
And you would trust Cameron? Who lies at every opportunity? And who put his know in a pigs head?
Yes, I trust him a lot more than I do Corbyn. I don't agree with everything the Conservatives do and I think they've got it wrong on some points, but they're the least worst option. I don't think Cameron lies at every opportunity either.
I simply can't understand why people rate Cameron personally. I can understand that some people support this government, and I can understand that some people don't rate Corbyn. But the idea that Cameron is in some way trustworthy or 'Prime Ministerial' (not quite the same thing, I know) baffles me. I don't think he's a bad man and I think that he does have some decent instincts which occasionally slip through. But most of the time he seems to me to be so full of bluster, so poorly prepared, so dependent on an ability to do just about enough to wing his way out of any awkward situation and never mind what happens tomorrow, so happy to take bad advice, that he is utterly unfit for any post of significant public responsibility.
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:
Second, as far as I've ever observed it, "Take hosting complaints to Styx," never results in anything but a huge pile of people saying, "Our hosts are volunteers and so we should never say anything to them but thank you, you ungrateful wretch."
Dunno, though I am generally of the sentiment you express,* I had a row with parts of the hostly set in the Styx. Seems to have resolved into a solution beyond shut it and be happy.
*Except the 'never say anything to them but thank you' bit.
--------------------
I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
YMM well V but the man is an atheist who wants to abolish the monarchy, and there are way too many question marks hanging over his head at this early stage. I wouldn't trust him any further than I could throw him. Also, he's scruffy.
I'm a Christian who wants to abolish the monarchy. I'm also scruffy. Your point is what?
But while I'd agree there are many question marks hanging over his head, I'd rather have the posibility of those than the certainty of Pig-fucker Cameron (as he is known in my bailiwick) killing yet more poor people.
(edited for code. Because I can)
[ 25. October 2015, 20:43: Message edited by: Doc Tor ]
--------------------
Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Organ Builder
Shipmate
# 12478
|
Posted
Twilight, there's enough truth in what you say about Styx that it made me chuckle, but I was able to point out on a thread once (that I did not start) that previous posts made by the host in the discussion made later official posts seem less than fair. This was a few years ago-I don't post a lot anymore.
I think Barnabas was the host in question, but I wouldn't bet a shiny nickel on it. It resulted in an apology, and a different host moderated the rest of the thread.
--------------------
How desperately difficult it is to be honest with oneself. It is much easier to be honest with other people.--E.F. Benson
Posts: 3337 | From: ...somewhere in between 40 and death... | Registered: Mar 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
Twilight
Puddleglum's sister
# 2832
|
Posted
Well, now that you've made me think about it. I had a good result once, too.
Posts: 6817 | Registered: May 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
|
Posted
I mildly doubt Cameron actually fucked a pig. Or a a pigs head.
[ 25. October 2015, 20:44: Message edited by: Doublethink. ]
--------------------
All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Louise
Shipmate
# 30
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink.:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seumas_Milne
I take it it is not Seamus Milne's time at The Economist you object to ?
Guardian columns too numerous to mention, I'm afraid. The third paragraph of this is a fairly good summary of the sort of thing. He's one of these people who takes anti-imperialism to extreme lengths where he ends up looking the other way at atrocities committed by anyone who's not the US or minimising them. As far as I'm concerned, it's imperialism and murder when Russia does it too.
--------------------
Now you need never click a Daily Mail link again! Kittenblock replaces Mail links with calming pics of tea and kittens! http://www.teaandkittens.co.uk/ Click under 'other stuff' to find it.
Posts: 6918 | From: Scotland | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink.:
I mildly doubt Cameron actually fucked a pig. Or a a pigs head.
It doesn't matter. What matters is everyone thinks he's the kind of man who might.
--------------------
Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Anglican't
Shipmate
# 15292
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink.:
I mildly doubt Cameron actually fucked a pig. Or a a pigs head.
Since the alleged act happened during an initiation ceremony for a society that Mr Cameron never actually joined, I think that's a fair assumption.
Posts: 3613 | From: London, England | Registered: Nov 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
Dave W.
Shipmate
# 8765
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:
quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.:
quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:
I'm not complaining about Barnabas's hosting, don't tell me to take it to Styx, I'm using that as an example of what I see as a general fear of controversy that's beginning to make the ship sound, "boring and self-righteous."
Sounds to me like a complaint about hosting thinly disguised as concern about "fear of controversy."
Or maybe just they're just two things crudely stitched together, like a lovely monkey-pony pet!
Then let me explain further: When the hosts start sending out advance warnings to people, telling them not to respond to a particular post because they think they can read that person's mind and predict that their reaction might be irritation or even, gasp anger. What would you can that if not fear of controversy?
Trying to save you from getting suspended or banned, I should say. But I suppose no good deed goes unpunished.
Posts: 2059 | From: the hub of the solar system | Registered: Nov 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Anglican't
Shipmate
# 15292
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Louise:
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink.:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seumas_Milne
I take it it is not Seamus Milne's time at The Economist you object to ?
Guardian columns too numerous to mention, I'm afraid. The third paragraph of this is a fairly good summary of the sort of thing. He's one of these people who takes anti-imperialism to extreme lengths where he ends up looking the other way at atrocities committed by anyone who's not the US or minimising them. As far as I'm concerned, it's imperialism and murder when Russia does it too.
While I agree that Mr Milne has some rather eccentric, if not disturbing, views, his appointment to his new role as Communications Director seems bizarre to me. If Labour wants to win the next election, it has to win over the undecided and Tory voters of, say, Nuneaton. How is Milne qualified to do that?
Posts: 3613 | From: London, England | Registered: Nov 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
|
Posted
He's an experienced journalist, so presumably good at how the media works.
--------------------
All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
|
Posted
Temperature control in Purgatory threads is a bit of an art, Dave W. Letting threads run as hot as possible without getting Hellish is a good standard for Purgatory. But I've taken Twilight's point. Next time I'll just wait to see if she drops herself in it when being wound up by Shipmates who excel at the skill of doing the winding within Purgatory guidelines. That's probably more respectful of her autonomy. Which I guess is what I would have said in the Styx. Had she been prepared to trust the process or at least try it out.
There's a certain irony in all of this you see. Stopping that thread this time was trying to help a vulnerable Shipmate avoid being wound up by a suspect troll and get himself back into hot water. As it turns out, that still looks like a good call to me. But some folks may see it as nannying, not unrestful enough. They are entitled to that opinion. Feel free to take that issue of balance to the Styx where it really belongs. Drawing these kinds of distinctions is one of the challenges of Hosting.
--------------------
Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Rosa Winkel
Saint Anger round my neck
# 11424
|
Posted
I think that the hard left can be defined as people who don't think that capitalism can be reformed and tend towards Marx's analysis, seeing Social Democracy to not actually addressing the root of the problem, which is the class war and consequent perpetrated by capitalism. Corbyn is a social democrat, one which wants to protect the best of Social Democracy's achievements.
The SWP are certainly a bunch of twats, what with that suppression of that alleged rape victim. They see that the broad social democrat party that is the Labour pary as being liable towards being corrupted by capitalism and, using Trotsky's analysis, see the value of being a revolutionary socialist party.
There are a number of anti-capitalist Labor Party members. There are also some who are not SWP members.
Within anti-capitalist people are a big diversity of views and some are more developed in their views than others. For the record, I stand in the ambivalent corner which thinks that capitalism is per se about exploitation and due to its crisis has produced neo-liberalism and austerity, something which harms many capitalists; at the same time, like Marx, I see that capitalism brings a lot of benefits. I believe it to be needed to have an ambivalent approach towards something so complex. A lack of it by anyone, left or right, leads to dogmatism.
--------------------
The Disability and Jesus "Locked out for Lent" project
Posts: 3271 | From: Wrocław | Registered: May 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Anglican't
Shipmate
# 15292
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by North East Quine:
[We used to live in an area which was a mixture of student-poor and downright-poor. One of our neighbours was an academic and a member of the SWP. Bizarrely, instead of sending his son to the nearest school, he put in a placing request and got him into a school in a far more middle class area.
Sounds like he was acting in a fine socialist tradition.
Posts: 3613 | From: London, England | Registered: Nov 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
|
Posted
Back in the 80s a group of SWP folk used to
sell their newspaper outside our local supermarket every Saturday. This was in a fairly well-heeled part of north London which has since become Very Desirable.
Their tag line was, "Buy the 'Socialist Worker', smash the Tory Government" (you need to get the stress and intonation just right). I always thought that was a bit of a non-sequitur, although I am no fan of the Conservatives myself.
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
YMM well V but the man is an atheist who wants to abolish the monarchy, and there are way too many question marks hanging over his head at this early stage. I wouldn't trust him any further than I could throw him. Also, he's scruffy.
I'm a Christian who wants to abolish the monarchy. I'm also scruffy. Your point is what?
Me too. I wear my scruffiness with pride on the basis that a man shouldn't be put down for doing what he does best. It hurts no-one.
I instinctively distrust the well-dressed, the conventional and the suit-wearing. I'm also aware it's an irrational prejudice that I try to address.
[ 26. October 2015, 11:00: Message edited by: Karl: Liberal Backslider ]
--------------------
Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
|
Posted
Ken Clark is scruffy; Rab Butler was scruffy; the whole Cecil family had a reputation for being scruffy. Scruffiness is not a preserve of the Left (and anyway Corbyn can be quite sufficiently smart when required).
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Louise:
I think that in foreign policy terms, [Corbyn]'s far too close to various idiots and his appointment of Seumas Milne rather undermines claims that he's been unfairly traduced for just sharing platforms with people.
Agreed.
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink.:
Apparently only men in smart dark suits are to be trusted, if you meet any who ask for your bank details it is perfectly fine to give them to these upstanding gentlemen. Don't trust any scruffy nerds who tell you not to, you can tell they're mischief making cos they don't iron.
In this day and age of spin, appearances count. I expect a leader to make some effort to show he takes the job seriously, not shamble in looking like he’s had a hard afternoon on the sofa watching telly. If he presents himself as an ordinary sort of man he’ll come across as just another ordinary sort of man with no clear abilities and how much confidence is anyone going to have in that? Speaking of which, Corbyn can’t even think up his own PMQs. Also, his appointment of a vegan who hates farming to the post of shadow minister for agriculture is about as helpful as it sounds.
There do need to be some austerity measures, though axing welfare benefits is not the way to go about it. Part of the problem is that MPs are rarely ever trained in how to run a country - they don't all have any background in economics or finance or the subject area that they’re appointed to and sometimes seem to visibly be winging it. Sometimes with disastrous consequences. The government would be much improved IMO if they got rid of Osborne, Gove, IDS and Jeremy Hunt and replaced them with some other MPs or some newer ones whose desire to be helpful to people hasn’t yet been entirely eroded.
[ 26. October 2015, 11:05: Message edited by: Ariel ]
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
(re Jeremy Corbyn) his appointment of a vegan who hates farming to the post of shadow minister for agriculture is about as helpful as it sounds.
It's better than to have a member of the "big agriculture" lobby in there. I'm sure a director of Fisons became a minister some years ago and that many other mins of ag have moved the other way. Someone with ties to the Soil Association is probably as good a bet there as anyone.
quote:
There do need to be some austerity measures, though axing welfare benefits is not the way to go about it. Part of the problem is that MPs are rarely ever trained in how to run a country - they don't all have any background in economics or finance or the subject area that they’re appointed to and sometimes seem to visibly be winging it. Sometimes with disastrous consequences. The government would be much improved IMO if they got rid of Osborne, Gove, IDS and Jeremy Hunt and replaced them with some other MPs or some newer ones whose desire to be helpful to people hasn’t yet been entirely eroded.
The problem there is that these are the best they have. Really, this government is so lacking in depth as well as competence that its only a few ressignations away from implosion. Just wait for the Europe debates - I don't see Cameron surviving them for long.
Ariel, you're treating the papers as objective reportage rather than chip wrappers. That's very dangerous even if it is what the government wants.
--------------------
"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
In this day and age of spin, appearances count. I expect a leader to make some effort to show he takes the job seriously, not shamble in looking like he’s had a hard afternoon on the sofa watching telly. If he presents himself as an ordinary sort of man he’ll come across as just another ordinary sort of man with no clear abilities and how much confidence is anyone going to have in that?
Explain Boris Johnson, then.
Explain Boris Johnson's hair.
--------------------
Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
|
Posted
Simple. The media largely agree with his political position. You can get away with any number of sartorial mistakes when what you say goes down well with the media.
Hold policies that the media dislike, and you'd better make sure you match the tie you choose with the socks you put on. Or, your crime against fashion will be headline news for at least a month.
--------------------
Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
|
Posted
Boris is posh scruffy in a ducal, these-tweeds-have-been-in-the-family-since-Edward VII sort of way.
Actually, Corbyn doesn't strike me as particularly scruffy, more normcore scientist/academic.
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Sipech
Shipmate
# 16870
|
Posted
I disagree, Alan.
The key to his success is the adoption of the 'cheeky chappy' persona. I have a colleague who adopts the same tactic and it allows him to get away with all sorts of racism, misogyny, etc.
By painting himself as a bit of an eccentric (noting that we've long loved the idea of the slightly rogue-ish Bohemian) it's a ready made excuse that allows him to get away with much more than would afforded to someone a bit more straight-laced.
--------------------
I try to be self-deprecating; I'm just not very good at it.
Twitter: http://twitter.com/TheAlethiophile
Posts: 3791 | From: On the corporate ladder | Registered: Jan 2012
| IP: Logged
|
|
Thread closed
Printer-friendly view
