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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Eccles: Anglo-catholicism for beginners
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Stephen
Shipmate
# 40
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Carys:
Cassock-albs and evangelicals? Surplice and stole is what I've seen in evangelical churches.
Carys
Interesting,as at one time surplice and stole were quite common in MOTR churches.Low churches wore surplice and hood,even at the Eucharist.It's only during the last 7 years that we've had Eucharistic vestments.Before then it was alb and stole,and cope,usually
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Best Wishes
Stephen
'Be still,then, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the nations and I will be exalted in the earth' Ps46 v10
Posts: 3954 | From: Alto C Clef Country | Registered: May 2001
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Thurible
Shipmate
# 3206
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Posted
At my college, which would probably term itself "open evangelical" - at least the Chaplain does -, it's surplice and scarf for the Chaplain; cassock-alb/cassock and alb and stole for the others, save for the Right Reverend Principal who's cassock-alb, stole and pectoral cross. The only person who's ever worn a chasuble in recent years was a woman, who presided when the Chaplain was on sabbatical!
Thurible
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"I've been baptised not lobotomised."
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anglicanrascal
Shipmate
# 3412
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Peronel:
If you do decide after the fact to write a report (and please do!)...
Is this allowed? Oh heck I am so disappointed.
Last year I went to a bobby-dazzler of a service here in Sydney so astounding that I wish that I had been an intrepid MWer to report on it. But I realised later that I had no idea of the exact sermon length and I couldn't remember the opening words of the service.
Oh well...
Posts: 3186 | From: Diocese of Litigalia | Registered: Oct 2002
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
One evangelical bishop (who shall be nameless) possesses at least one chasuble of his own which he brings with him in case the tat in the parish he visits isn't up to standard.
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Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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seasick
...over the edge
# 48
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Posted
Since when are cassock-albs 'proper clothes'? Granted, they may be a step in the right direction...
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We believe there is, and always was, in every Christian Church, ... an outward priesthood, ordained by Jesus Christ, and an outward sacrifice offered therein. - John Wesley
Posts: 5769 | From: A world of my own | Registered: May 2001
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Cosmo
Shipmate
# 117
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Posted
What is all this rubbish about proper evangelical clothes and such like? Surely the point of this thread is to guide those who have got through such questions at their conventicles and now wish to take part more fully in catholic worship.
So.
This Sunday is Passion Sunday. On this day all statues, images and crosses in church are to be veiled in purple veils. These veils are not to be removed until the Easter Vigil Mass. Thus, even if you, casual reader, still attend the Ebenezer Chapel or the Emmanuel Parish Church, you will still be able to go up to your pastor or 'worship leader' on Sunday and tell him to veil up his crucifix. It's been done for many hundreds of years so you can tell him it was a practice of the Early Church and so we must carry on doing it.
And please tell us his reaction.
Cosmo
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Fiddleback
Shipmate
# 2809
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Cosmo:
This Sunday is Passion Sunday. On this day all statues, images and crosses in church are to be veiled in purple veils.
Bolloc*s are they. They are covered in veils of unbleached linen stencilled with crimson.
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Amos
Shipmate
# 44
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Posted
Nonsense, boys. They are veiled in veils of black net appliqued with tiny black velvet dots.
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At the end of the day we face our Maker alongside Jesus--ken
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Cosmo
Shipmate
# 117
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Fiddleback:
quote:
Originally posted by Cosmo:
This Sunday is Passion Sunday. On this day all statues, images and crosses in church are to be veiled in purple veils.
Bolloc*s are they. They are covered in veils of unbleached linen stencilled with crimson.
Oh yeah? I'd like to see you try.
Cosmo
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Stephen
Shipmate
# 40
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Posted
So what do you do with ikons?
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Best Wishes
Stephen
'Be still,then, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the nations and I will be exalted in the earth' Ps46 v10
Posts: 3954 | From: Alto C Clef Country | Registered: May 2001
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Saint Osmund
Pontifex sariburiensis
# 2343
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Posted
Glad to see someone spells it properly.
Posts: 2965 | From: here | Registered: Feb 2002
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Adrian1
Shipmate
# 3994
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Posted
Cosmo, whatever statues, cricifixes etc are veiled with it should emphatically NOT be purple. Unbleached linen or any slightly off-white material is much to be preferred. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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The Parson's Handbook contains much excellent advice, which, if it were more generally followed, would bring some order and reasonableness into the amazing vagaries of Anglican Ritualism. Adrian Fortescue
Posts: 1986 | From: UK | Registered: Jan 2003
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Sarum Sleuth
Shipmate
# 162
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Posted
As they should have all been veiled a month ago on Shrove Tuesday, I can't see what all the fuss is about.
SS ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
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The Parson's Handbook contains much excellent advice, which, if it were more generally followed, would bring some order and reasonableness into the amazing vagaries of Anglican Ritualism. Adrian Fortescue
Posts: 848 | From: England, 1549 | Registered: May 2001
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Thinker
Apprentice
# 4328
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Posted
An excellent thread and would be a useful book for new ACs were the more sensible discussions to be published (and some of the funnier non sensible points too). I wonder whether Rachel has been convinced or whether all the detail of the robing procedures, et. have put her off for ever?
Posts: 29 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2003
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Sine Nomine*
Ship's backstabbing bastard
# 3631
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Degs:
I'm with Amos on this one!!
Me too. I want to go to Amos' church. Home of the peek-a-boo veiling. Penitential, yet smart looking.
Posts: 10696 | Registered: Dec 2002
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Chimakwa
Shipmate
# 3413
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Posted
Ok, why not purple?
I ask because ours are all veiled in ancient purple crepe, apparently handed down from the days of olde; a group of us is constantly expecting them to catch fire at any moment and go up like flash paper. I could use ANY excuse to encourage them to replace the veils..
We had thought about surreptitiously using them to set the new fire at Easter vigil.. ![[Devil]](graemlins/devil.gif)
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athanasia (n): to induce death by means of Quicunque Vult
(Shipmate Formerly Known as Anglicub)
Posts: 249 | From: Philadelphia | Registered: Oct 2002
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Saint Osmund
Pontifex sariburiensis
# 2343
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Anglicub:
I ask We had thought about surreptitiously using them to set the new fire at Easter vigil..
I'd stick with tha suggestion, anglicub.
Why not purple?
Because the liturgical colour for Lent isn't purple. It is a Lenten array of unbleached linen, with symbols of the Passion embroidered, or (dare I say?) appliqued in crimson.
Common Worship has made a bit of a boo boo on this one, I'm afraid.
AD x
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Sine Nomine*
Ship's backstabbing bastard
# 3631
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Posted
For what it's worth, my ECUSA Ordo Kalendar says purple, but simply decorated muslin also acceptable. Doesn't seem to mention black net appliqued with tiny black velvet dots, mores the pity.
Posts: 10696 | Registered: Dec 2002
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Ultraspike
Incensemeister
# 268
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Posted
We're having a veiling party tonight after Stations & Benediction, purple of course.
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A cowgirl's work is never done.
Posts: 2732 | From: NYC | Registered: May 2001
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Sine Nomine*
Ship's backstabbing bastard
# 3631
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ultraspike:
We're having a veiling party tonight
Do tell. How riotous do you get to be during Lent?
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Thurible
Shipmate
# 3206
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Posted
Purple is the proper colour; anything else is a funny "English Catholic" re-invention.
Thurible
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"I've been baptised not lobotomised."
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Fiddleback
Shipmate
# 2809
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Thurible:
Purple is the proper colour; anything else is a funny "English Catholic" re-invention
Stupid boy.
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jlg
What is this place?
Why am I here?
# 98
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Posted
Since we have some newcomers among us, I'm bumping this back to the top in hopes it will be useful and used.
Posts: 17391 | From: Just a Town, New Hampshire, USA | Registered: May 2001
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dorothea
Goodwife and low church mystic
# 4398
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Posted
Thanks to Jig for putting me on to this thread. Whilst I must admit that the ritualistic stuff is a bit tiresome (sorry) something that Iakovos said several pages back hit a real chord with me.
Iakovos wrote: 'Yes, Jesus is your friend. But He is also the Awesome and Mysterious Word who Spoke the Universe into Being'.
I've often found it difficult to respond to the notion of Jesus as a friend. When I first came back to the church (a low broadly Evangelical Anglican Church), baptised but unconfirmed, the Rector really responded to me but felt it was important that I grapsed the implications of how, in Jesus Christ, God became human. I have responded to this, and it has informed my theology. It has allowed me to emphathise more with others, especially those who are suffering (It hasn't made me a better or nicer person though; I lack a great many qualities that a 'good Christian' might posesses.) However if I have to define my relationship with Jesus Christ, he is is more like a guide, a counsellor, a liberator than a 'chum'.
I'm really struggling with this idea of Jesus as a 'chum' and feel deepy alienated from the happy clappy ' Christ of the car sticker who seems very popular with some at my Church. I keep coming back to the those lines 'Great is the Mystery of Faith'..(Guess that's why I am here!!!)
But I am also very greatful to the practice quite common in the Anglican low Church of letting 'All who love Jesus to come to his table'. Without this free and open policy I would not have become confirmed in the first place.
Dorothea
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Protestant head? Catholic Heart?
http://joansbitsandpieces.blogspot.com/
Posts: 1581 | From: Notlob City Limits | Registered: Apr 2003
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Saint Osmund
Pontifex sariburiensis
# 2343
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Posted
I can relate to most of your points, Dorothea, especially the thing about God being a friend.
Perhaps it's just my hang-up about not being able to fully grasp that aspect of Incarnation theology, and perhaps that is what I am called to do, but I feel that people who can claim to have a deep close friendhsip with Jesus in the sort of bumper-sticker way to which you make reference have either fully grasped the Incarnation, and are far superior to me, or have a very different understanding of the Incarnation to the Catholic Christian.
RC x
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seasick
...over the edge
# 48
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Posted
In the light of the liturgy for dummies thread I thought it might be worth giving this a kick...
(It's not answering quite the same question but anyway...)
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We believe there is, and always was, in every Christian Church, ... an outward priesthood, ordained by Jesus Christ, and an outward sacrifice offered therein. - John Wesley
Posts: 5769 | From: A world of my own | Registered: May 2001
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Bishop Joe
Shipmate
# 527
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Posted
As a Dummy myself, I remember hearing something about a Rose Day falling about in the middle of the Lenten season.
Who can advise? ![[Ultra confused]](graemlins/confused2.gif)
Posts: 150 | From: Chicago, IL USA | Registered: Jun 2001
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Sacristan
Shipmate
# 3548
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Posted
The Right Rev'd Joe
Bishop's Palace
Ship of Fools
Your Excellency:
Two Sundays of the Year are "Rose". The Third Sunday of Advent, which is called Gaudete and the Fourth Sunday of Lent, Laetare.
Your most humble subject, who is typing through vimp veils,
Sacristan
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More abomination, more abomination
Posts: 1008 | From: West of Gotham | Registered: Nov 2002
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Saint Osmund
Pontifex sariburiensis
# 2343
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Bishop Joe:
As a Dummy myself, I remember hearing something about a Rose Day falling about in the middle of the Lenten season.
Who can advise?
This features in Roman Catholic practice, and none other, to my knowledge.
Advent III and Lent IV, as Sacristan saith.
M x
Posts: 2965 | From: here | Registered: Feb 2002
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Thurible
Shipmate
# 3206
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Posted
It certainly features in Roman Rite Anglican Catholicism too (and even in supposed English Rite places where they don't know any better!).
Thurible
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"I've been baptised not lobotomised."
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Divine Outlaw
Gin-soaked boy
# 2252
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Posted
And is mentioned explicitly in CW. How much more Anglican do you want?
[ 05. February 2004, 11:53: Message edited by: Divine Outlaw-Dwarf ]
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insert amusing sig. here
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Dunstan.
Shipmate
# 5095
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Posted
I am quite aware that MW is for all who wish to participate, but would it not be helpful, and prevent future repetitive threads, if this thread were made a sticky? I mean, a significant portion of threads in MW are people going on about AC liturgy, or at least high-church liturgy, and people who worship in other traditions may wonder why people discuss these "trivial" and "arcane" things and what it has to do with Jesus. I'm not so familiar with how UBB works, especially on the host's end, but might it be possible to put a note before the thread assuring people that ACism is only one of many traditions whose adherents participate in MW, but that this thread might be helpful to understanding even a general high-church perspective.
I really found this thread informative, and my only fear is that it will make people think that MW is the AC section, when it can embrace people from every tradition.
Sorry for the jumble of thoughts...anyway, what do the hosts think?
[ 05. February 2004, 12:41: Message edited by: Dunstan ]
Posts: 54 | From: New Hampshire | Registered: Oct 2003
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Saint Osmund
Pontifex sariburiensis
# 2343
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Divine Outlaw-Dwarf:
And is mentioned explicitly in CW. How much more Anglican do you want?
Sarum, York, Bangor, Durham, Westminster, or Hereford Missal would be satisfactory. ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
M x
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Sine Nomine*
Ship's backstabbing bastard
# 3631
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Dunstan:
I really found this thread informative, and my only fear is that it will make people think that MW is the AC section, when it can embrace people from every tradition.
Well of course, it could, but for some strange reason we don't seem to get too many Southern Baptists arguing to the death about the Invitational Hymn. I'm assuming (perhaps incorrectly) that they don't care as much.
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Bishop Joe
Shipmate
# 527
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Posted
Thank you all for sharing about Rose Days. I know of one church in the Chicago area that celebrates the Lenten one; and if it bothers the local Diocese I'm not aware of it.
The church is pretty self-conscious (though perhaps "self-aware" would be the better term) about the practice but the church is famously "high-church" to its own way of thinking and embraces these concepts willingly.
It may or may not be apropos that I've been told that American Episcopal clergy have more freedom (license?) ritually than their Anglican colleagues in the U.K. But the examples cited me I frankly can't remember very well--something about whether the Priest can genuflect crossing the chancel when church is not in service. (I may be completely out to lunch on this, something along those lines though.) But I was told that "High Anglicans love coming over here because they can quite freely do things that are technically forbidden in the U.K."
Any truth to that, O Learned Ones?
Inquiring (albeit ignorant) Mind.
[duplicate post deleted]
[ 09. February 2004, 01:53: Message edited by: Siegfried ]
Posts: 150 | From: Chicago, IL USA | Registered: Jun 2001
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Newman's Own
Shipmate
# 420
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Bishop Joe:
I was told that "High Anglicans love coming over here because they can quite freely do things that are technically forbidden in the U.K."
Any truth to that, O Learned Ones?
Inquiring (albeit ignorant) Mind.
The truly learned ones can expound at length, I am sure, but two truths have been demonstrated admirably by Anglicans of a Catholic bent ever since the 1800s:
- What is technically forbidden hardly ever prevents its being done
- When one is fervently Catholic and vicar of a parish, what is technically forbidden is usually done, at least in part, because it is forbidden and makes a good point
- Usually within a generation, what was forbidden has become so popular that those who never thought of themselves as particularly "High" have a fondness for it and have long forgotten the prohibition
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Cheers,
Elizabeth
“History as Revelation is seldom very revealing, and histories of holiness are full of holes.” - Dermot Quinn
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Crotalus
Shipmate
# 4959
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Posted
quote:
Posted by Bishop Joe:
"High Anglicans love coming over here because they can quite freely do things that are technically forbidden in the U.K."
What Newman's own said.
The Episcopal one's comment was probably true in the 1930s, but now almost anything goes, even in the Old World.
Posts: 713 | From: near the knacker's yard | Registered: Sep 2003
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Alogon
Cabin boy emeritus
# 5513
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Posted
All topics have been addressed so many times that I can't reply or quote anyone in particular-- but
here are my thoughts: two specific and three general.
Incense:
Fr. Barry Swain of S. Clement's, Philadelphia mentioned once that the hymn "We three kings" got it in a nutshell: "Incense owns a deity nigh." This understanding particularly explains the use of incense during the Eucharist and elevation and the censing of the altar at other times. It also explains why almost everyone who rejects the Real Presence also dislikes incense. (Please notice that he didn't say, "Those who dislike incense reject the Real Presence." One might dislike incence simply because, for instance, one is allergic to it.)
A recent PBS TV program about the magi (which discusses evidence making the biblical story of the wise men, as well as the belief that the relics now lying in Cologne Cathedral might really be their bones) more plausible than I had ever assumed before) suggested that they set out wondering about the exact nature of the personage they were visiting: Was he a king? Was he a god? Was he a healer? They expected these questions to be answered by which gift he accepted. He accepted all three (perhaps to their surprise) because He was all three.
The use of incense characterizes biblical worship, as mentioned numerous times, and nowhere does the New Testament suggest that we should stop using it.
The Real Presence or Transubstantiation:
I'm not sure whether this image would qualify as an analogy of transubstantiation-- but in terms of something that we can all understand, or at least a musician can: What God does with the elements is something like what Stradivarius did with his raw materials, especially wood. Strictly speaking, we could say that a beautiful and extremely venerable Stradivarius violin is a piece of wood, but it would be dangerously ignorant to refer to it as such, or as anything less than the Stradivarius violin that it is. So should we refer to the consecrated elements as Christ's Body and Blood. This is analogous to what I believe. Perhaps it amounts to transubstantiation, perhaps not. Either way, it's o.k. per Anglicanism. Transubstantiation is a doctrine that Anglicans may but need not believe. We hold that it is one possible specific explanation of a belief (Real Presence) that Anglicanism on the whole is content to regard as a mystery.
I first became aware of high or Anglo-Catholic worship at about age 15, and was immediately drawn to it. This was because it was old and romantic, it was associated with beautiful music, and almost everyone I knew found it esoteric and strange. Thus it made for very effective adolescent rebellion :-)
As time goes on, I prefer Anglo-Catholic liturgy and spirituality as much as ever, but for deeper reasons relating to the theological and other values behind it. The most important that come to mind:
1. Anglicanism is known as "the denomination that really takes the Incarnation seriously". It has this important point in common with eastern orthodoxy, whose spirit is more incarnational than that of Roman Catholicism and the western church in general. In the controversy over icons and the propriety of images, Saint John of Damascus appealed to the Incarnation to justify them: we can make icons, he reasoned, because we have seen in Jesus the perfect Icon of God. This perception, and the more general feeling that God blessed the world by deigning to enter it, suggests that we honor the Incarnation in fully enlisting the material and palpable world in our worship. Anglo-Catholic worship does so unreservedly. A refusal or reluctance to do so suggests that one might entertain mischievous elements of Manichaeism or gnosticism in one's outlook.
2. Catholicism generically, and Anglo-Catholicism again partly inspired by eastern orthodoxy, stresses the communal nature of Christian life, whereas Protestantism emphasizes the individual. Habituated in occidental thought, of course we might stumble in all innocence into asking "But aren't both of these aspects important?" No, say orthodox theologians such as John Zizioulas, who in his book _Being as Communion_ reminds us that as we believe in the Trinity, our God is not an individual, but three persons in relationship. The very word "individual", he warns, implies a life of isolation and therefore meaninglessness. It is a dangerous word anywhere near our faith. Even in a strictly secular sense we can appreciate that an apotheosis of individualism has led to widespread anomie and alienation in the "most advanced," "first-world" cultures. Rather than speaking of individuals, we should speak of persons: the crucial difference being that a person is defined by relationships to other persons.
3. With the above two points in mind, perhaps we can see why Anglo-Catholicism goes hand-in-hand with "a preferential option for the poor." Anglo-Catholics have been (in)famous ever since the ritualist riots in the 1840s for comforting the afflicted and afflicting the comfortable. Its ministries are found especially among the powerless, disenfranchised, and marginalized, those whose status in society has been most at odds with that of Christ's brothers and sisters, a spiritual status proclaimed by liturgies whose splendor befits their dignity and nobility. The dogma of the Incarnation shows their value and just place in God's eyes, while the dogma of the Atonement shows a God who knows and shares their suffering. It has been said that these two are the only dogmas in Anglicanism.
Thus the theological and liturgical conservatism of Anglo-Catholicism is authentically accompanied by a political stance that is often called leftist or radical. "You cannot claim to worship Jesus in the Tabernacle, if you do not pity Jesus in the slums... It is folly-- it is madness-- to suppose that you can worship Jesus in the Sacraments and Jesus on the throne of glory, when you are sweating him in the souls and bodies of his children." This quote greets us at the web site "anglocatholicsocialism.org," which provides an inspiring rationale and history, furnished with quotes from scripture and patristics. I recommend this site for a stirring sense of the spirit behind the elaborate rites and ceremonies.
Posts: 7808 | From: West Chester PA | Registered: Feb 2004
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boppysbud
Shipmate
# 4588
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Posted
About incense.
I noticed growing up in the 70's when smoking was socially acceptable, the same people who would be complaining of allergies and asthma and coughing their heads off at the merest whiff from the censer could not wait for Mass to end so they could light up. ![[Help]](graemlins/help.gif)
At coffee hour you couldn't see across the parish hall for the wal-to-wall cigarette smoke. ![[Projectile]](graemlins/puke2.gif)
Seems like what they were really allergic to was Catholicism
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Posts: 255 | From: High Desert, West Texas, USA | Registered: Jun 2003
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Siegfried
Ship's ferret
# 29
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by boppysbud:
About incense.
I noticed growing up in the 70's when smoking was socially acceptable, the same people who would be complaining of allergies and asthma and coughing their heads off at the merest whiff from the censer could not wait for Mass to end so they could light up.
At coffee hour you couldn't see across the parish hall for the wal-to-wall cigarette smoke.
Seems like what they were really allergic to was Catholicism
Geneva Gown ON
Just noting we have a perfectly marvelous Incense thread lurking around already.
Geneva Gown OFF
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Siegfried
Life is just a bowl of cherries!
Posts: 5592 | From: Tallahassee, FL USA | Registered: May 2001
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The Scrumpmeister
Ship’s Taverner
# 5638
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Posted
Just thought I'd bump this back to the top. It's always worth a re-read, and now that MW and Small Fire have been combined, it may be of use to some folk.
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If Christ is not fully human, humankind is not fully saved. - St John of Saint-Denis
Posts: 14741 | From: Greater Manchester, UK | Registered: Mar 2004
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Mark Wuntoo
Shipmate
# 5673
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Posted
Thank you Back-to-front.
It's not likely that I would have MW'd such a church, mainly because the technical ('scuse me) words are not known to me, let alone the symbolism. I'd make a terrible hash of it and offend people left, right & centre.
However, I'll read through the thread (the first post fits me so closely) and try to learn - and maybe, just maybe, I'll have a go.
Of course, it would be wise, in any case, to get someone to look over any draft report.
Thanks again.
And now, after a year on the Ship, I think I know what people mean when they say 'bump'! ![[Snigger]](graemlins/snigger.gif)
Blessings!
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Blessed are the cracked for they let in the light.
Posts: 1950 | From: Somewhere else. | Registered: Mar 2004
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Amazing Grace*
Shipmate
# 4754
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Posted
Well, Mark, I was going to a church where a lot of this stuff was being used, at least some times, and had no flippin' clue what most of it was called. Now (to riff off Seig's sig line) I can tell a chausable from a cotta.
For my sins I have signed up with the Altar Guild (I do like to play with fabric) so will be learning a LOT MORE technical terms Real Soon Now.
Charlotte
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.sig on vacation
Posts: 2594 | From: Sittin' by the dock of the [SF] bay | Registered: Jul 2003
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
Now, Mark Wuntoo, don't be so modest! I'm editing one of your reports on a Roman Catholic church right now, and it seems to me you "enjoyed yourself in spite of yourself."
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
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Scholar Gypsy
Shipmate
# 7210
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Posted
Can anyone here tell me the significance/theology behind signing oneself with the cross during Evensong/Eucharist?
Does it have a different meaning depending on when you do it? Does it have any other meaning apart from reminding oneself of the Trinity: Father-Son-Spirit?
Many thanks, have begun to cross myself since moving higher up the candle, but am not sure of the reasoning behind it. One thing reading this thread has taught me (which I assumed anyway) is that much of the ritual has dense symbology and meaning behind it.
xSx
Posts: 822 | From: Oxford | Registered: May 2004
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jlg
What is this place?
Why am I here?
# 98
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Posted
As an RC convert (from non-Christianity) I have mixed feelings about this. I do it liturgically at the beginning and end of mass, but it still doesn't feel natural to me.
But it does remind one of the mystery of the Trinity, and that is how I take it. Done without thinking, as a 'pious behavior', it can be meaningless.
On the other hand, striking my breast for mea culpa is something I have to resist doing to excess. This just seems such a natural way to acknowledge having caught oneself committing a minor sin (indulging in gossip or a snarky comment about someone's behavior, etc) that I have an urge to do it even when I'm thinking bad thoughts.
Probably a side-effect of those good Irish Catholic boys I worked with so many years ago who planted the phrase in my mind.
One man's meat...
[ 07. March 2005, 00:20: Message edited by: jlg ]
Posts: 17391 | From: Just a Town, New Hampshire, USA | Registered: May 2001
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