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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Purgatory: Death of Dawkins forum?
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Simon
Editor
# 1
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Posted
Peter Harrison, an ex-moderator of the forum at www.richarddawkins.net, has posted an account on his blog of how the online community has apparently been destroyed by insensitive and heavy-handed management. Peter describes the forum as "arguably the best atheist forum on the internet", so the loss of the community is significant, and of course it has generated a huge amount of angst in members of the community. Read Peter's detailed account here...
http://tr.im/PJ6x
The account is followed by a large number of comments from members of the community.
Meanwhile, Richard Dawkins has responded to the crisis (which apparently happened while he was away on tour in Australia and New Zealand) with a remarkable post on the forum, headed "Outrage", in which he reacts to the strongly worded protests he has received from forum members, and puts all the blame on them.
He says, "What this remarkable bile suggests to me is that there is something rotten in the Internet culture that can vent it. If I ever had any doubts that RD.net needs to change, and rid itself of this particular aspect of Internet culture, they are dispelled by this episode."
Read his post (which has been locked) here...
http://tr.im/PJ8x
Experience suggests that Richard Dawkins will have received rational and respectful communication from forum members as well as vitriol, so it's interesting (and maybe characteristic) that he has chosen to respond only to the most colourful protests.
I'm interested to know what the thoughts are of us here, as arguably one of the best Christian forums on the internet. While I'm not a fan of Richard Dawkins himself, I do hope the forum there can survive, for the sake of rational debate and the enjoyment of community. I'm sure there are things we can learn too about how we run this community and nurture its life.
[ 21. June 2010, 17:32: Message edited by: Barnabas62 ]
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Eternal memory
Posts: 3787 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2001
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Stoker
Shipmate
# 11939
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Posted
I'm shocked!
I didn't think that those rational, clear minded, right thinking atheists could sink to such levels. I thought that it was just us religious people who were bigoted, abusive and hate filled.
Oh well, it just goes to show, it must be human nature that causes such behaivour.
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Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.
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Erroneous Monk
Shipmate
# 10858
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Posted
It's obvious what their problem was. If I want to call Simon a "suppurating rat’s rectum inside a dead skunk that’s been shoved up a week-old dead rhino’s ...." I can go to Hell and do so.
RD doesn't believe in Hell.
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And I shot a man in Tesco, just to watch him die.
Posts: 2950 | From: I cannot tell you, for you are not a friar | Registered: Jan 2006
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Petros
Shipmate
# 2820
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Posted
The problem, as I see it, is that every Atheist believes they follow the One True Atheism. Anyone who disagrees must therefore be anathema. If only they could reconcile their differences and come together as one ... ![[Yipee]](graemlins/spin.gif)
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Just because you don't know what's going on doesn't necessarily mean that someone else does.
Posts: 99 | From: Northamptonshire, UK | Registered: May 2002
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Jack o' the Green
Shipmate
# 11091
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Posted
I've only been on the forum a few times, but I hardly found it to be a 'clear thinking oasis'. It did however make me very grateful for the atheists who post on here. Adds to the much needed variety.
Posts: 3121 | From: Lancashire, England | Registered: Feb 2006
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Lord Jestocost
Shipmate
# 12909
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Posted
We could invite them all over here. As I doubt they would return the gesture if SoF went belly up for whatever reason, this would fulfil the guidelines of Romans 12.20 exactly and give us all a warm rosy glow.
But, I do feel for those who apparently found RDworld a sanctuary from religious oppression and I do hope they find a new home. For anyone who has grown up in an oppressive religious atmosphere, discovering that you don't have to be religious must be like being Born Again. Hopefully they will now take the next step on the journey, which is to learn that you can be a rational atheist away from the influence of Dawkinistas.
There's sermon material a-plenty here...
Posts: 761 | From: The Instrumentality of Man | Registered: Aug 2007
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Simon
Editor
# 1
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Posted
There's an update on Peter Harrison's blog here...
http://tr.im/PJRv
The theory is that Richard Dawkins was duped by the forum management and that his bad-tempered post was written by them for him.
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Eternal memory
Posts: 3787 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2001
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Christian Agnostic
Shipmate
# 14912
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Posted
I'm definitely feeling some schadenfreude right now. ![[Axe murder]](graemlins/lovedrops.gif)
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Words to the wise: Don't read Kierkegaard when you're 16, and always set B.S. detectors to 11. "How can I sing a strange song in the Lord's land?"
Posts: 493 | From: The Great North Woods | Registered: Jul 2009
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fletcher christian
Mutinous Seadog
# 13919
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Posted
the plot thickens ![[Paranoid]](graemlins/paranoid.gif)
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'God is love insaturable, love impossible to describe'
Staretz Silouan
Posts: 5235 | From: a prefecture | Registered: Jul 2008
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Petros
Shipmate
# 2820
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Posted
If Peter Harrison's views represent the true picture, it does seem that there was a failure of their management to acknowledge that the forum was a community, not just a soap-box or talking shop. The Ship has a strong sense of community too, as can be seen from the protests that happen every time a shipmate is planked. However the Captain & his team do seem well aware of the existence and importance of the community to this forum.
Of course, like us, RD's posters are guests on his web space. If the Captain scuppers us tomorrow, we have no real grounds for complaint and the same is true for RD and his site. It doesn't mean that we would be happy though especially if he locked Hell so we couldn't call him (in Christian love) a "suppurating rat’s rectum inside a dead skunk that’s been shoved up a week-old dead rhino’s ...."
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Just because you don't know what's going on doesn't necessarily mean that someone else does.
Posts: 99 | From: Northamptonshire, UK | Registered: May 2002
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
Lawks! These atheists have quite a spicy line in vitriol, don't they? It's the rhino I feel sorry for ....
Seriously, I think it's a shame when any forum like this stops working. There are few enough places on the web where you can go and get some reasonable, well-mannered debate. (Dawkins's forum has obviously stopped being one of those, if it ever was.)
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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Ancient Mariner
Sip the ship
# 4
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Petros:
If the Captain scuppers us tomorrow, we have no real grounds for complaint and the same is true for RD and his site. It doesn't mean that we would be happy though especially if he locked Hell so we couldn't call him (in Christian love) a "suppurating rat’s rectum inside a dead skunk that’s been shoved up a week-old dead rhino’s ...."
Sadly, our own 'suppurating rat’s rectum inside a dead skunk that’s been shoved up a week-old dead rhino’s...' has NEVER been called to Hell. A true dishonour about which he feels some angst.
[ 25. February 2010, 12:04: Message edited by: Ancient Mariner ]
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Ship of Fools' first novel, Rattles & Rosettes, is the tale of two football (soccer) fans: 16-year-old Tom in 1914 and Dan in 2010. More at www.rattlesandrosettes.com
Posts: 2582 | From: St Helens (near Liverpool) UK | Registered: May 2001
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Callan
Shipmate
# 525
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Posted
Originally posted by Simon:
quote:
The theory is that Richard Dawkins was duped by the forum management and that his bad-tempered post was written by them for him.
The Cossacks work for the Czar. The Cossacks always work for the Czar.
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How easy it would be to live in England, if only one did not love her. - G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 9757 | From: Citizen of the World | Registered: Jun 2001
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Dave Marshall
Shipmate
# 7533
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Posted
This only confirms my high regard for Richard Dawkins and I sympathise with the position he finds now himself in. When I joined the richarddawkins.net forums and looked around a bit, I couldn't square the tone and much of the content with either the impression I got of him personally from interviews and articles or the "oasis of reason" tag on the site.
Peter Harrison's blogs seem to accurately reflect a certain dismissive pseudo-rational arrogance that typified far too much of the forum content for my taste. I'm very pleased to see Richard Dawkins taking the steps he is, and look forward to exploring the new discussion facilities on his site when they're introduced.
[ 25. February 2010, 11:43: Message edited by: Dave Marshall ]
Posts: 4763 | From: Derbyshire Dales | Registered: Jun 2004
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daronmedway
Shipmate
# 3012
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Stoker:
I'm shocked!
I didn't think that those rational, clear minded, right thinking atheists could sink to such levels. I thought that it was just us religious people who were bigoted, abusive and hate filled.
Oh well, it just goes to show, it must be human nature that causes such behaivour.
You might even say that "sin" has hand in it.
Posts: 6976 | From: Southampton | Registered: Jul 2002
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Paul.
Shipmate
# 37
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Posted
What exactly are you softening us up for Simon?
Just kidding. ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
Anyway, it's all about how you communicate non-negotiable decisions isn't it? RD and his paid website staff have every right to make whatever changes to the site they wish (something Harrison acknowledges in the follow-up blog post) - but I think the way it was handled leaves a little to be desired.
In particular I think it was a mistake to try to stop them swapping contact info and contacting Dawkins. In fact they should have facilitated it. I would have:
- started a swap-your-website/email-address here thread, or possibly allow it in sigs but not both and certainly make sure there's not a proliferation of threads
- started a discuss-this-change thread (making it clear that offensive language was off limits)
- made it clear that the second of these threads would be forwarded to Dawkins and asked people not to contact him directly.
Posts: 3689 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2004
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Seeker963
Shipmate
# 2066
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Posted
I don't know Dawkins' forum at all but I can make a comment about why I think SOF works: the separate boards. I think that the existence of "Hell" is particularly helpful and is a stroke of genius.
In my previous experience on discussion boards what tends to happen is that 90% of the posters want conversation, friendship, fellowship, or a forum in which to think. Then you get a small minority (which really might even be less than 10%) who either want to a) attract attention to themselves by being obnoxious or b) who are inflexible in their thinking and on a mission to convert everyone else to their Correct Mindset.
Why I think that "Hell" is genius is that the 10% can go there and rant and rave with absolutely no holds barred like a two-year old throwing a temper tantrum until s/he gets tired. What tends to happen on other boards is that members of 90% start saying "stop behaving that way", then people start arguing over who is saying what to whom and the whole community disintegrates.
I also think that places like Heaven and All Saints are helpful too. The attention-seekers on other boards often like to inflict pain on the "All Saints" seeking solace because it gets the former attention. And there is usually very little room for play at all in most other forums (not something I'm personally looking for online but I think that many people appreciate and enjoy it).
My thoughts.
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"People waste so much of their lives on hate and fear." My friend JW-N: Chaplain and three-time cancer survivor. (Went to be with her Lord March 21, 2010. May she rest in peace and rise in glory.)
Posts: 4152 | From: Northeast Ohio | Registered: Dec 2001
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
It seems quite clear that the owners of richarddawkins.net had a very clear vision of what they wanted the site to be - namely a promotional tool for Dawkins himself - and felt that the forum was not (or no longer) promoting that. The comment about the new setup being about "quality not quantity" shows that quite clearly.
It's not about atheists being unable to exist in community, it's about small-minded site owners wanting the whole damn thing to be about them and their pre-approved subjects. It could happen in any walk of life - even my cricket club's first forum disintegrated because the admin decided he didn't like what was being posted and shut it down.
The local equivalent would be if Simon and AM decided that the SoF boards weren't really helping the cause of Christian Unrest (hey, remember that stuff!) and therefore decided to start again without pointless (to them) threads about movies, hobbies, get-togethers and games.
That said, it was a total communications fuckup. Which just shows how small-minded and arrogant Dawkins and his fellow site owners really are. For someone who claims to be all about "free thinking", he's remarkably quick to stifle any thinking that he doesn't approve of...
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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Tubbs
Miss Congeniality
# 440
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gildas:
Originally posted by Simon:
quote:
The theory is that Richard Dawkins was duped by the forum management and that his bad-tempered post was written by them for him.
The Cossacks work for the Czar. The Cossacks always work for the Czar.
Indeed. It’s Dawkins' site so he can do what he likes. It’s Dawkins' site so he’s ultimately responsible for what happens on it.
As for the post, I’d be amazed if someone dared post anything under Dawkins name without his prior knowledge and approval. Even if he didn’t write it himself. His reaction kind of reminds me of Stephen Fry’s after a few fellow Twitters described his twits as “dull” and “boring” – Is Outrage. None of the insults that Dawkins seems so shocked about would cause an eyebrow twitch in Hell. He’s probably more shocked about being spoken to just like anyone else would be on the Internet. Poor love. Don’t they know who he is? He’s probably booked counselling and everything. ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
Marvin’s theory seems spot on – that the site was always intended as a promotional tool for Dawkins and His Big Ideas that are Both Right and Clever. And that the changes are designed to bring it back into line with that original vision. It could have been done better as Wilson shows. It’s a shame it wasn’t. But these things happen. Sadly. Been there. Done that. Have several t-shirts.
Tubbs
[ 25. February 2010, 14:22: Message edited by: Tubbs ]
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"It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it up and remove all doubt" - Dennis Thatcher. My blog. Decide for yourself which I am
Posts: 12701 | From: Someplace strange | Registered: Jun 2001
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Lyda*Rose
Ship's broken porthole
# 4544
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ancient Mariner:
quote:
Originally posted by Petros:
If the Captain scuppers us tomorrow, we have no real grounds for complaint and the same is true for RD and his site. It doesn't mean that we would be happy though especially if he locked Hell so we couldn't call him (in Christian love) a "suppurating rat’s rectum inside a dead skunk that’s been shoved up a week-old dead rhino’s ...."
Sadly, our own 'suppurating rat’s rectum inside a dead skunk that’s been shoved up a week-old dead rhino’s...' has NEVER been called to Hell. A true dishonour about which he feels some angst.
![[Confused]](confused.gif) I think we all believed he'd delegated that function to Erin.
(Being called to Hell, I mean. Not taking the role of "supperating rat's rectum inside a dead skunk that's been shoved up a week-old dead rhino's..." For one thing, it would never fit under her avatar as a title. )
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"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano
Posts: 21377 | From: CA | Registered: May 2003
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Ancient Mariner
Sip the ship
# 4
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Posted
Being creative, what message would now be apposite on the side of those red buses?
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Ship of Fools' first novel, Rattles & Rosettes, is the tale of two football (soccer) fans: 16-year-old Tom in 1914 and Dan in 2010. More at www.rattlesandrosettes.com
Posts: 2582 | From: St Helens (near Liverpool) UK | Registered: May 2001
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Paul.
Shipmate
# 37
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ancient Mariner:
Being creative, what message would now be apposite on the side of those red buses?
Given that the forum moderators were given the boot:
quote:
There are probably no mods - so relax and enjoy this site
Posts: 3689 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2004
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Lord Jestocost
Shipmate
# 12909
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Seeker963:
I don't know Dawkins' forum at all but I can make a comment about why I think SOF works: the separate boards. I think that the existence of "Hell" is particularly helpful and is a stroke of genius.
We could have fun devising suggested names for separate boards on Dawkinsnet. For community discussion: Non-Existence, Non-Existence and Non-Existence ... Hmm, more thought may be needed.
Posts: 761 | From: The Instrumentality of Man | Registered: Aug 2007
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Peppone
Marine
# 3855
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Posted
What is their equivalent of 'ITTWACW'?
ITTWARARW?
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I looked at the wa's o' Glasgow Cathedral, where vandals and angels painted their names,
I was clutching at straws and wrote your initials, while parish officials were safe in their hames.
Posts: 3020 | From: Hong Kong | Registered: Dec 2002
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ancient Mariner:
Being creative, what message would now be apposite on the side of those red buses?
"There's probably no God - but we'll do our damndest to act like one whenever we have enough power"
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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fletcher christian
Mutinous Seadog
# 13919
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Posted
See, thats the problem when you topple something big, it always leaves a huge gap in the market for folk to come along and fill with something worse
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'God is love insaturable, love impossible to describe'
Staretz Silouan
Posts: 5235 | From: a prefecture | Registered: Jul 2008
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mdijon
Shipmate
# 8520
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ancient Mariner:
Being creative, what message would now be apposite on the side of those red buses?
There's probably no RDnet. Now go and enjoy real life.
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mdijon nojidm uoɿıqɯ ɯqıɿou
ɯqıɿou uoɿıqɯ nojidm mdijon
Posts: 12277 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2004
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Callan
Shipmate
# 525
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Posted
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
It seems quite clear that the owners of richarddawkins.net had a very clear vision of what they wanted the site to be - namely a promotional tool for Dawkins himself - and felt that the forum was not (or no longer) promoting that. The comment about the new setup being about "quality not quantity" shows that quite clearly.
Indeed. The name 'richarddawkins.net' was a bit of a clue. As was the bit about it being part of the Richard Dawkins Foundation For Reason and Science (Prop. Richard Dawkins) as, indeed, is the fact that it is cited in The God Delusion (written by Richard Dawkins) as being an extension of said book by said author. [schadenfreude] You would think that keen sighted exponents of evidence and rationality might spot a trend at that point [/schadenfreude].
There's not actually anything wrong with that. Dawkins is hardly the only author with his own online sandpit. And, FWIW, as an Anglican I'm not entirely minded to throw stones at a community in the throes of a messy and protracted bust up. I guess the moral is twofold. If you mess volunteers about they tend to cut up rough - a point familiar to any clergyperson who has had a run in with the flower ladies - and if someone else is picking up the tab for something don't expect them to put changes to a free and fair popular vote. There's probably something to be said as well (among my many weapons are fear, surprise and a fanatical devotion to the Pope) about how people invest a great deal emotionally in membership of online communities whilst being strangely incurious about who pulls the strings (the local, if inexact analogue, being the fall-out from Cosmogate).
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How easy it would be to live in England, if only one did not love her. - G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 9757 | From: Citizen of the World | Registered: Jun 2001
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Custard
Shipmate
# 5402
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Posted
And there was me thinking this was a thread about a forum discussing Dawkins' death.
Which would be a real shame, as he still needs someone to get alongside him and lovingly lead him to Christ.
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blog
Adam's likeness, Lord, efface;
Stamp thine image in its place.
Posts: 4523 | From: Snot's Place | Registered: Jan 2004
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Callan
Shipmate
# 525
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Posted
Oh, and that bus message.
We stand by the God bit. Unfortunately there's still human nature so we're probably all fucked.
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How easy it would be to live in England, if only one did not love her. - G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 9757 | From: Citizen of the World | Registered: Jun 2001
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Carys
Ship's Celticist
# 78
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Posted
OTOH, the website managers are perfectly entitled to do what they like and refocus the debate, but, the treatment of the forum community* particularly the moderators is unpleasant. Especially: Please do not attempt to ... “relocate” groups of users to a separate forum. They managers of RichardDawkins.net have decided that they want editorially managed discussion (at least as regards topics), fine. But, as a community exists, it would seem fair to say to them, 'if you want to continue with the community fora, do it yourselves' and allowing the old mods to note that they have created such a board would be nice.
Carys
*which apparently isn't acknowledged -- maybe community isn't a rational thing!
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O Lord, you have searched me and know me
You know when I sit and when I rise
Posts: 6896 | From: Bryste mwy na thebyg | Registered: May 2001
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Jahlove
Tied to the mast
# 10290
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Petros:
The Ship has a strong sense of community too, as can be seen from the protests that happen every time a shipmate is planked.
I've never come across this Dawkins site before but reading Peter Harrison's post, it does sound as if they developed a community very much like this one (posters becoming RL friends, even marrying etc.) so, if there is any value in such things*, it's a shame that it has been devastated and demolished by the actions of Their PTB. If his account is accurate, it sounds like the [paid] top Admin person was more driven by the need to make a profit than consider the needs/wishes of the community - and maybe in doing so he HAS been fulfilling his job-description albeit in the process, killing the golden-egg laying goose, the lifeblood of BB debate that was driving traffic to the site.
I do not believe that SoF is built around the same sort of Personality Cult as the Dawkins site - Simon, although he would stand as a mirror-image of RD as ultimate owner of the site, is conspicuous by his absence most of the time; we do not start any discussions with the words *Simon says .... what do the rest of you think?*.
*Personally, I believe there IS value in online communities and even our dear (or not so dear) departees are still part of the collective memory and contribute to the sense of identity.
Simon comments: *I'm sure there are things we can learn too about how we run this community and nurture its life.*
IF we are some sort of *family* (and, who, on a CWS would deny that, for all our differences, pace certain Ecclesaborinigals, we are/should be, notwithstanding that some of us fit into the Mad Auntie/Uncle in the Attic category), I would like to see some sort of *Forgiveness/Absolution* corner - maybe an AS thread - for those of us who have fucked up royally to the extend of expulsion etc. - could not some way back be provided - it's only the extremely fundie churches of my aquaintance that Shun/Ban someone Forever Amen.
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“Sing like no one's listening, love like you've never been hurt, dance like nobody's watching, and live like its heaven on earth.” - Mark Twain
Posts: 6477 | From: Alice's Restaurant (UK Franchise) | Registered: Sep 2005
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Leaf
Shipmate
# 14169
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jahlove:
I would like to see some sort of *Forgiveness/Absolution* corner
Is that a proposal you would make in the Styx?
Posts: 2786 | From: the electrical field | Registered: Oct 2008
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Yerevan
Shipmate
# 10383
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Posted
I spent a day or two poking around the Dawkins forum once years back and Oh Sweet Lord was it depressing. 90% of the posters seemed to be angst-ridden American teens from fundy backgrounds who had (bless their hearts) just discovered atheism and were smug, naive and annoying in just the same way as every teenager who has just found The Truth is smug, naive and annoying (originality is not militant neo-atheism's strong point). Fun though it was to reconnect with my 15 year old only-atheist-in-a-convent-school self, I can't say it was a deeply stimulating experience. OK, maybe I got it on a bad day, but maaaaan was it a bad day. The forum's no loss to anyone, least of all smarter atheists, who probably have better things to do with lives anyway. *shrug*
Posts: 3758 | From: In the middle | Registered: Sep 2005
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Yerevan
Shipmate
# 10383
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Posted
PS quote:
And there was me thinking this was a thread about a forum discussing Dawkins' death.
The best argument for universalism is how much NOT being damned will piss off Richard Dawkins.
Posts: 3758 | From: In the middle | Registered: Sep 2005
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Jay-Emm
Shipmate
# 11411
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Posted
There's a bit of me that thinks there but for the grace of god goes us...
Having said that you/we have some advantages, not least that you asked what we can learn [yuck that reads as very patronising, still].
[ 25. February 2010, 19:25: Message edited by: Jay-Emm ]
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Yerevan
Shipmate
# 10383
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Posted
Maybe it just shows the difficulty of building community around being against something rather than for something?
Posts: 3758 | From: In the middle | Registered: Sep 2005
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jay-Emm:
There's a bit of me that thinks there but for the grace of god goes us...
Having said that you/we have some advantages, not least that you asked what we can learn [yuck that reads as very patronising, still].
I was intrigued by the Forum Users Agreement, particularly by the paras on moderation and right to access. Personally, I'd hate to moderate on that basis.
I think the site might have benefited from a Hell-type safety valve. Clearly it did have some kind of Styx equivalent but, reading Peter Harrison, there has been a fair amount of censoring by the paid admin staff of critical comments re the change decisions. I wasn't impressed by Richard Dawkins' post.
I'm not sure if I'm reading between the lines too much, but it rather looks as though the forum had become too big to handle technically - which was compounding the challenges the moderators were experiencing. I'm not very impressed with the way those volunteers were treated. Maybe we should offer them chocolate for their pains? I feel some sympathy for them.
[ 25. February 2010, 19:54: Message edited by: Barnabas62 ]
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
It seems quite clear that the owners of richarddawkins.net had a very clear vision of what they wanted the site to be - namely a promotional tool for Dawkins himself - and felt that the forum was not (or no longer) promoting that. The comment about the new setup being about "quality not quantity" shows that quite clearly.
But how did they let it get away from them? Insufficient or ineffective hosting/moderating. They have only themselves to blame.
Which is the other thing that makes SOF great, Seeker963. Hell is awesome but it wouldn't do any good without the hosts reading every post and reminding people when they get hellish on other boards, and if necessary sending threads there when they get irretrievably hellish.
The other board I spend as much time on as I do here, suffers badly from lack of both. Many threads become a slanging match between two obnoxious posters, even though other people would gladly go back to talking about the OP. It really shows the genius of the SOF system.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Jahlove
Tied to the mast
# 10290
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Leaf:
quote:
Originally posted by Jahlove:
I would like to see some sort of *Forgiveness/Absolution* corner
Is that a proposal you would make in the Styx?
I would start such a thread, yes,
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“Sing like no one's listening, love like you've never been hurt, dance like nobody's watching, and live like its heaven on earth.” - Mark Twain
Posts: 6477 | From: Alice's Restaurant (UK Franchise) | Registered: Sep 2005
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Spiffy
Ship's WonderSheep
# 5267
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Custard:
And there was me thinking this was a thread about a forum discussing Dawkins' death.
I had the same thought, and was prepared to wade in and do battle with the Schenk decision firmly in hand.
Having read everything, and having been a member of various bulletin boards across the breadth and depth of this World Wide Web since 1993, this kind of bulletin board implosion is something I've seen before. And my previous observations of such implosions have been in fandoms, that is, groups of people attracted to a book or television show/movie. The board admin, whether an employee of some outside group or a volunteer, is by default a BNF and that kind of thing can sometimes go to one's head.
Only one other board I frequent has a Hell-type spleen vent. A couple others could probably use it.
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Looking for a simple solution to all life's problems? We are proud to present obstinate denial. Accept no substitute. Accept nothing.
--Night Vale Radio Twitter Account
Posts: 10281 | From: Beervana | Registered: Dec 2003
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Peppone
Marine
# 3855
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Spiffy:
...my previous observations of such implosions have been in fandoms, ...
You've put your finger on it there. Dawkins.net is a fan site.
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I looked at the wa's o' Glasgow Cathedral, where vandals and angels painted their names,
I was clutching at straws and wrote your initials, while parish officials were safe in their hames.
Posts: 3020 | From: Hong Kong | Registered: Dec 2002
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
That's intriguing, Spiffy. Hadn't thought of that, but I think you have a point.
From Dawkins' locked post.
quote:
Be that as it may, what this remarkable bile suggests to me is that there is something rotten in the Internet culture that can vent it. If I ever had any doubts that RD.net needs to change, and rid itself of this particular aspect of Internet culture, they are dispelled by this episode.
A bit preachy really. Plus a certain aroma of moral superiority, fastidiousness and anal-retentive control. I think he may live to regret that bit of retaliatory intemperance. Odd that some of the ex-moderators seek to defend him on the grounds that he has been misled by the "bad guys". What he has written, he has written.
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Darllenwr
Shipmate
# 14520
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
What he has written, he has written.
Assuming, as I suppose one must, that he wrote it...
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If I've told you once, I've told you a million times: I do not exaggerate!
Posts: 1101 | From: The catbox | Registered: Jan 2009
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
Basic life rule. If it goes out under your name, you are responsible for it - whether you had help with the drafting or not. And if you're daft enough to give anyone the freedom (implied or otherwise) to write whatever they like in your name, more fool you.
You can take it that I don't think much of modern deniability stratagems.
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Arrietty
Ship's borrower
# 45
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Posted
Having read through as much of the background material as I could manage last night, I'm not sure there is anything to learn from this other than save your stuff on your machine if you don't want it to disappear when the site you've posted it on implodes.
Some features that might be relevant seem to be
1) The complete lack of communication between those with admin powers and the mod team
2) An assumption by the mods and site users that Dawkin and his paid staff were essentially benevolent towards them, which has been shown to be wrong
3) A disjunct between the aims of the site from the POV of those paying for it and the aims of the site as assumed by the community
I don't think any Christian site can sit back on its laurels and think this is something that would only happen to an atheist site.
The whole thing seems to have been exacerbated by a series of software/bandwidth problems which has prompted an assessment by those paid to run it about the technological way ahead, in the course of which is has been decided that providing bigger and better forum software and bandwidth is not part of the way ahead.
Dawkin's reaction seems to show that he has no understanding of how the Interwebs work at all. I don't think the same could be said of Simon somehow.
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i-church
Online Mission and Ministry
Posts: 6634 | From: Coventry, UK | Registered: May 2001
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QLib
Bad Example
# 43
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62, commenting on Dawkins' locked post:
A bit preachy really.
Dawkins "a bit preachy"? Surely not.
Let's give all those disgruntled atheists a board here. We could call it "Pie-in-the-sky" ![[Devil]](graemlins/devil.gif)
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Tradition is the handing down of the flame, not the worship of the ashes Gustav Mahler.
Posts: 8913 | From: Page 28 | Registered: May 2001
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Sir Pellinore
Quester Emeritus
# 12163
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by QLib:
...
Let's give all those disgruntled atheists a board here. We could call it "Pie-in-the-sky"
Very catholic of you there, QLib.
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Well...
Posts: 5108 | From: The Deep North, Oz | Registered: Dec 2006
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