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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Purgatory: Staring at the debt ceiling
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Yes, re majorities.
I'd really like to see the Republicans formally and legally renounce their own Social Security and Medicare, since they hate them so much.
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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tclune
Shipmate
# 7959
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
I'd really like to see the Republicans formally and legally renounce their own Social Security and Medicare, since they hate them so much.
The Republicans have never objected to the government throwing money at people -- only to the government throwing money at poor people. The Republican world view sees bankers and CEOs as only being motivated by receiving multi-million dollar handouts, while poor people are demotivated by receiving anything at all.
--Tom Clune
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Posts: 8013 | From: Western MA | Registered: Jul 2004
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romanlion
editorial comment
# 10325
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
I'd really like to see the Republicans formally and legally renounce their own Social Security and Medicare, since they hate them so much.
Well, I'm no republican, but even halfway to eligibility I would gladly renounce both in exchange for exemption from payroll taxes.
Work on it, and sign me up!
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"You can't get rich in politics unless you're a crook" - Harry S. Truman
Posts: 1486 | From: White Rose City | Registered: Sep 2005
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
Is this "supercongress" thing even constitutional? Does't allowing a group that isn't congress to determine spending constitute a wresting of constitutionally-guaranteed powers from congress?
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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New Yorker
Shipmate
# 9898
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
Is this "supercongress" thing even constitutional? Does't allowing a group that isn't congress to determine spending constitute a wresting of constitutionally-guaranteed powers from congress?
I would think it is essentially a joint committee.
Posts: 3193 | From: New York City | Registered: Jul 2005
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Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
Is this "supercongress" thing even constitutional? Does't allowing a group that isn't congress to determine spending constitute a wresting of constitutionally-guaranteed powers from congress?
Congress is allowed to let committees handle specific tasks, provided that the committee members are all members of Congress and their work is later voted on by Congress as a whole. The only sticking point is whether the supposed inability of either house of Congress to submit amendments to the Supercongress' recommendations prior to a vote is constitutional and, even if constitutional, if it comports with the existing rules of the House and Senate respectively.
So I guess the short answer is that this kind of peculiarly-constituted joint committee isn't unconstitutional on the face of it, though there may be some detail deep in the works that renders it so.
Part of the problem may have been naming the thing "the Supercongress". If it had been named "the Joint Committee on the Federal Debt Limit" there probably would have been less fuss.
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Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
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tclune
Shipmate
# 7959
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
Is this "supercongress" thing even constitutional? Does't allowing a group that isn't congress to determine spending constitute a wresting of constitutionally-guaranteed powers from congress?
It doesn't do that, though. All it does is put together a proposal that must be voted up or down by the Congress as a whole. If it is voted down, the fallback cuts that Congress voted as part of the debt ceiling measure would take effect instead.
Admittedly, the mechanism is kind of a shaggy dog put together because Congress doesn't trust itself any more than the rest of the country trusts it, but it doesn't seem to undermine Congress' authority (except to the extent that looking ridiculous undermines authority, but I think that's probably a pretty thoroughly discounted currency for them.)
--Tom Clune
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Posts: 8013 | From: Western MA | Registered: Jul 2004
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Dave W.
Shipmate
# 8765
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Crœsos:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
Is this "supercongress" thing even constitutional? Does't allowing a group that isn't congress to determine spending constitute a wresting of constitutionally-guaranteed powers from congress?
Congress is allowed to let committees handle specific tasks, provided that the committee members are all members of Congress and their work is later voted on by Congress as a whole. The only sticking point is whether the supposed inability of either house of Congress to submit amendments to the Supercongress' recommendations prior to a vote is constitutional and, even if constitutional, if it comports with the existing rules of the House and Senate respectively.
So I guess the short answer is that this kind of peculiarly-constituted joint committee isn't unconstitutional on the face of it, though there may be some detail deep in the works that renders it so.
Part of the problem may have been naming the thing "the Supercongress". If it had been named "the Joint Committee on the Federal Debt Limit" there probably would have been less fuss.
I agree that "Supercongress" is an unfortunate label, but that's not what it's called in the agreement (the Budget Control Act Amendment) - it's actually the Joint Select Committee on Deficit Reduction.
I've read that it was inspired by the defense Base Realignment and Closure process. None of the nine BRAC commissioners is a serving senator or representative.
Posts: 2059 | From: the hub of the solar system | Registered: Nov 2004
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
And now, of course, most of the Congress critters have scampered away for their August break, leaving the FAA still unfunded, people working unpaid or on furlough, etc.
I really hope that, as the Congress critters fly off to wherever, they encounter inconveniences at the airports--and are told, with huge smiles, "gee, sorry, but a bunch of people have been furloughed, and the rest of us aren't being paid". Or some such.
![[Devil]](graemlins/devil.gif)
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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art dunce
Shipmate
# 9258
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Posted
quote:
Mousethief posted: Grow a spine, Barry.
Greatest disappointment since Ken Griffey Jr.
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Ego is not your amigo.
Posts: 1283 | From: in the studio | Registered: Apr 2005
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Alfred E. Neuman
What? Me worry?
# 6855
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
And now, of course, most of the Congress critters have scampered away for their August break, leaving the FAA still unfunded, people working unpaid or on furlough, etc.
The impasse was over cutting subsidies to 13 small rural airports (under the Essential Air Services Act) that would save the government $16m per year. But with the FAA unable to collect airline ticket taxes during this shutdown, the government is losing almost twice that — $30 million — EVERY DAY.
So far, the amount of revenue lost during the FAA shutdown is $260m and expected to reach $1 billion in revenue losses before the vacationing congress returns. That $1 billion could have subsidized those small airports for 62 years.
The FAA also has issued stop work orders on more than 200 construction projects, furloughing thousands more workers. Welcome to the 2011 Republican jobs creation and budget savings program.
Posts: 12954 | Registered: May 2004
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Porridge
Shipmate
# 15405
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Posted
Oh, now, hey, be fair. The FAA Safety Inspectors are still on the job.
Of course, they're working for free.
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Spiggott: Everything I've ever told you is a lie, including that.
Moon: Including what?
Spiggott: That everything I've ever told you is a lie.
Moon: That's not true!
Posts: 3925 | From: Upper right corner | Registered: Jan 2010
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Alfred E. Neuman:
The impasse was over cutting subsidies to 13 small rural airports (under the Essential Air Services Act) that would save the government $16m per year. But with the FAA unable to collect airline ticket taxes during this shutdown, the government is losing almost twice that — $30 million — EVERY DAY.
The air services to rural areas was just so the tea-baggers could keep talking about cutting stuff. The real issue was airline workers unionizing.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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Timothy the Obscure
Mostly Friendly
# 292
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
quote:
Originally posted by Alfred E. Neuman:
The impasse was over cutting subsidies to 13 small rural airports (under the Essential Air Services Act) that would save the government $16m per year. But with the FAA unable to collect airline ticket taxes during this shutdown, the government is losing almost twice that — $30 million — EVERY DAY.
The air services to rural areas was just so the tea-baggers could keep talking about cutting stuff. The real issue was airline workers unionizing.
And I gather the airports targeted were all in Democratic districts--it was purely cynical gamesmanship, which is par for the course.
It's getting really hard to have any hope for this country at all.
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When you think of the long and gloomy history of man, you will find more hideous crimes have been committed in the name of obedience than have ever been committed in the name of rebellion.
- C. P. Snow
Posts: 6114 | From: PDX | Registered: May 2001
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The5thMary
Shipmate
# 12953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by art dunce:
quote:
Mousethief posted: Grow a spine, Barry.
Greatest disappointment since Ken Griffey Jr.
Who is Barry?
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God gave me my face but She let me pick my nose.
Posts: 3451 | From: Tacoma, WA USA | Registered: Aug 2007
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Paddy O'Furniture:
Who is Barry?
Barack Hussein Obama.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Soror Magna
Shipmate
# 9881
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Timothy the Obscure:
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
quote:
Originally posted by Alfred E. Neuman:
The impasse was over cutting subsidies to 13 small rural airports (under the Essential Air Services Act) that would save the government $16m per year. But with the FAA unable to collect airline ticket taxes during this shutdown, the government is losing almost twice that — $30 million — EVERY DAY.
The air services to rural areas was just so the tea-baggers could keep talking about cutting stuff. The real issue was airline workers unionizing.
And I gather the airports targeted were all in Democratic districts--it was purely cynical gamesmanship, which is par for the course. ...
Most. Expensive. Union-busting. Ever. <no smilie will sufice> OliviaG
Posts: 5430 | From: Caprica City | Registered: Jul 2005
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Josephine
Orthodox Belle
# 3899
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Apocalypso:
Oh, now, hey, be fair. The FAA Safety Inspectors are still on the job.
Of course, they're working for free.
They're also paying their own plane fare, hotel bills, meals, car rental, and the like. And, unlike their co-workers who were furloughed, they can't apply for unemployment.
And you thought indentured servitude was abolished over a century ago.
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I've written a book! Catherine's Pascha: A celebration of Easter in the Orthodox Church. It's a lovely book for children. Take a look!
Posts: 10273 | From: Pacific Northwest, USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Porridge
Shipmate
# 15405
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Josephine:
quote:
Originally posted by Apocalypso:
Oh, now, hey, be fair. The FAA Safety Inspectors are still on the job.
Of course, they're working for free.
They're also paying their own plane fare, hotel bills, meals, car rental, and the like. And, unlike their co-workers who were furloughed, they can't apply for unemployment.
And you thought indentured servitude was abolished over a century ago.
It was? Partner, an adjunct academic, didn't get that memo. Nor did the colleges employing the poor thing.
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Spiggott: Everything I've ever told you is a lie, including that.
Moon: Including what?
Spiggott: That everything I've ever told you is a lie.
Moon: That's not true!
Posts: 3925 | From: Upper right corner | Registered: Jan 2010
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
singing my song, apocalypso
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
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Alfred E. Neuman
What? Me worry?
# 6855
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Posted
And in other news... Standard and Poors, one of the three largest credit rating agencies has just downgraded the US one point to AA+... the first time in history the US government has been rated less than triple-A.
Great timing, waiting for Friday evening after the markets have closed. Watch for a wild ride Monday with the stock market after this week's 800 point Dow Jones drop.
[ 06. August 2011, 01:19: Message edited by: Alfred E. Neuman ]
Posts: 12954 | Registered: May 2004
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Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Alfred E. Neuman:
And in other news... Standard and Poors, one of the three largest credit rating agencies has just downgraded the US one point to AA+... the first time in history the US government has been rated less than triple-A.
Great timing, waiting for Friday evening after the markets have closed. Watch for a wild ride Monday with the stock market after this week's 800 point Dow Jones drop.
It should be remembered that S&P rated all those bad mortgage-backed securities AAA and re-affirmed Lehman's triple-A standing a month before bankruptcy. I'm wondering why Standard & Poor's is taken seriously as a credit-rating agency anymore.
As I mentioned earlier, credit-rating companies are ridiculously harsh in their judgement of government indebtedness and absurdly forgiving of the debts owed by their fellow corporations.
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Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Crœsos:
It should be remembered that S&P rated all those bad mortgage-backed securities AAA and re-affirmed Lehman's triple-A standing a month before bankruptcy. I'm wondering why Standard & Poor's is taken seriously as a credit-rating agency anymore.
Exactly.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
Oh I know. But this is the end of an era. Generations of traders and economists have learned to treat US Treasury Bonds as risk-free. That is no longer true, not after the shenanigans over the debt ceiling.
FWIW, comically, Canada now has a higher credit rating than the US. We were downgraded on our foreign denominated debt in 1995, but not our domestic debt. Unlike the US, the Government of Canada occasionally borrows in currencies other than the Canadian Dollar.
Shall we play the Last Post for the end of an era?
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NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.
Posts: 7646 | From: Peterborough, Upper Canada | Registered: Jun 2007
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Timothy the Obscure
Mostly Friendly
# 292
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Posted
Somebody, just the other day (I can't be arsed to look it up) said "This isn't how great nations behave." Somebody responded, "Yes it is--this is how they fall."
The USA is like an airliner in a stall, with the crew arguing about who gets to take the controls and fly it into the ground. I can't envision any happy endings here.
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When you think of the long and gloomy history of man, you will find more hideous crimes have been committed in the name of obedience than have ever been committed in the name of rebellion.
- C. P. Snow
Posts: 6114 | From: PDX | Registered: May 2001
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romanlion
editorial comment
# 10325
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by Crœsos:
It should be remembered that S&P rated all those bad mortgage-backed securities AAA and re-affirmed Lehman's triple-A standing a month before bankruptcy. I'm wondering why Standard & Poor's is taken seriously as a credit-rating agency anymore.
Exactly.
I'm sure that point will be clear in the history books, along with the fact that the speaker of the house was named john bane-er at the time.
Barry finally comes across with some change. That should get him re-elected.
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"You can't get rich in politics unless you're a crook" - Harry S. Truman
Posts: 1486 | From: White Rose City | Registered: Sep 2005
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sober Preacher's Kid:
Shall we play the Last Post for the end of an era?
We're not dead yet! You just watch, in 20 or 30 years we'll throw off these jackals and rise again from the Boehnervilles to reclaim our place in the sun! Those of us who survive, I mean. The good thing is that we'll be a lot healthier as a populatin because the people with curable but otherwise fatal childhood illnesses won't reproduce. The libertarians will finally get the eugenics they've been longing for.
[ 06. August 2011, 04:28: Message edited by: mousethief ]
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
So which decline-and-fall or post-apocalyptic story are we playing out?
--"Omega Man"
--"The Postman"
--"The Road Warrior"
--"Wall-E"
--"The Fifth Sacred Thing"
--"Buffy" (Although Buffy "saved the world--a lot", so we never quite got a full apocalypse. "What, another one?")
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Alfred E. Neuman
What? Me worry?
# 6855
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
So which decline-and-fall or post-apocalyptic story are we playing out?
--"Omega Man"
--"The Postman"
--"The Road Warrior"
--"Wall-E"
--"The Fifth Sacred Thing"
--"Buffy" (Although Buffy "saved the world--a lot", so we never quite got a full apocalypse. "What, another one?")
My money is on The Road Warrior:
My life fades, the vision dims.
All that remains are memories.
I remember a time of chaos; ruined dreams this wasted land.
But most of all, I remember the Road Warrior, the man we called Max.
To understand who he was, you have to go back to another time when the world was powered by the black fuel and the deserts sprouted great cities of pipe and steel.
Gone now swept away.
For reasons long forgotten, two mighty warrior tribes went to war and touched off a blaze which engulfed them all.
Without fuel they were nothing.
They'd built a house of straw.
The thundering machines sputtered and stopped.
Their leaders talked and talked and talked but nothing could stem the avalanche.
Their world crumbled, the cities exploded.
A whirlwind of looting; a firestorm of fear.
[ 06. August 2011, 05:48: Message edited by: Alfred E. Neuman ]
Posts: 12954 | Registered: May 2004
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
Nah - my money is on the usual muddle through.
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
So which decline-and-fall or post-apocalyptic story are we playing out?
--"Omega Man"
--"The Postman"
--"The Road Warrior"
--"Wall-E"
--"The Fifth Sacred Thing"
--"Buffy" (Although Buffy "saved the world--a lot", so we never quite got a full apocalypse. "What, another one?")
I'd liken it to 'Monty Python and the Holy Grail' with The Black Knight in the role of the capitalist economy: "'Tis but a flesh wound'" etc.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
So which decline-and-fall or post-apocalyptic story are we playing out?
--"Omega Man"
--"The Postman"
--"The Road Warrior"
--"Wall-E"
--"The Fifth Sacred Thing"
--"Buffy" (Although Buffy "saved the world--a lot", so we never quite got a full apocalypse. "What, another one?")
I'd liken it to 'Monty Python and the Holy Grail' with The Black Knight in the role of the capitalist economy: "'Tis but a flesh wound'" etc.
Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade.
"He chose... poorly."
Actually, as a metaphor it stands up quite well: chasing after an artefact of incomparable power and wealth, able to confer immortality but actually bringing about the destruction of all who seek it. "Let it go."
Family, friends, adventure. Worth their weight in treasure.
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Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
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art dunce
Shipmate
# 9258
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Posted
My money is on Soylent Green. Monsanto is working on it already.
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Ego is not your amigo.
Posts: 1283 | From: in the studio | Registered: Apr 2005
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
Rollerball. Giant corporations own everything and provide "bread and circuses" for the masses to keep them docile.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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irish_lord99
Shipmate
# 16250
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Posted
The Matrix: we're all kept in our little cocoon and fed a reality that isn't there while our masters drain the very life energy from us. We individually atrophy away into almost nothing until we're no longer any use... then they flush us down the toilet.
However, you do get to keep voting on which machine gets to do this to us. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
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"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." - Mark Twain
Posts: 1169 | From: Maine, US | Registered: Feb 2011
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
So which decline-and-fall or post-apocalyptic story are we playing out?
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
Nah - my money is on the usual muddle through.
With acknowledgements particularly to the above posters, I've started another thread to explore this tangent a little. Let it sink or swim.
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
So which decline-and-fall or post-apocalyptic story are we playing out?
We've been in a Ken Macleod novel for the past fifteen years or so. Not sure which one yet.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
So which decline-and-fall or post-apocalyptic story are we playing out?
We've been in a Ken Macleod novel for the past fifteen years or so. Not sure which one yet.
Please let it be _Learning the World_. That was full of epic win.
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Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
{Tangent.}
Doc Tor--
That's one of my favorite films. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
However, only people who sought the Grail for selfish reasons came to a bad end. Remember the guy from the order of the Cruciform Sword asked Indy why he sought the cup of Christ. Indy said he didn't; he just wanted to find his dad. So the guy wished him well. And when Indy actually did go for the Grail, it was to save his father's life. Because of that (and because he had some common sense!), he made it through ok.
Ilse sought the Grail as a pretty toy; unfortunately, she broke the rules and tried to take the Grail out of Alexandretta. And the guy who "chose poorly" ![[Paranoid]](graemlins/paranoid.gif) chose the wrong cup.
I wonder what would've happened if he'd chosen the real Grail, even selfishly? And I wonder what would've happened if Indy's dad had made it to the Grail, on his own quest rather than being forced, and had drunk from it then? His manner of seeking it was sometimes selfish, but he was devoted to it on a spiritual level.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Today's edition of "The Newshour" on PBS did a great piece on what wealth distribution in the US is really like, and Americans' misperceptions of it.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Alfred E. Neuman
What? Me worry?
# 6855
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Posted
Good lord. The top 20% of Americans own 84% of the wealth.
The bottom 40% own .1% (1/10th of one percent) of the wealth.
We're doomed.
Posts: 12954 | Registered: May 2004
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
BTW, the link I just posted has audio, video, and transcript options.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
From the link -
"It's getting easier for people to ignore the inequality. They can stay far away from it."
Yes - and many deliberately hide from it. They put walls and gates round their well off communities. Then again, there's a wall keeping Mexicans out too, isn't there?
[ 17. August 2011, 06:45: Message edited by: Boogie ]
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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sabine
Shipmate
# 3861
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
Today's edition of "The Newshour" on PBS did a great piece on what wealth distribution in the US is really like, and Americans' misperceptions of it.
People were asked to look at a chart of a mythical country which has total equality of wealth, a chart of Sweden (not named) which has a middling distance between rich and poor, and a chart of the US (again, not named) which shows a huge gap between the rich and poor. Many of them choose the Swedish chart as representing the US and speculated that the US chart represented places like India or a third-world country in Africa.
Interestingly, Americans in the lower end of the economic scale more often correctly picked the right pie chart. They know they aren't in an equal system.
I believe many good people don't really want to let go of the idea of the "American Dream" because it is a dream of equality. And since many people tend to live in non-diverse neighborhoods, it's easy to look around and think that life here is generally better for all than it really is.
And then there are those who benefit from the inequality and don't seem willing to consider what the gap in rich/poor really means for the health of our nation in general. I wish some of them would pay more attention to Warren Buffet.
sabine
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"Hunger looks like the man that hunger is killing." Eduardo Galeano
Posts: 5887 | From: the US Heartland | Registered: Dec 2002
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Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
Then again, there's a wall keeping Mexicans out too, isn't there?
Not really. There's a wall that some people claim is keeping Mexicans out, but mostly it does other stuff.
quote:
Flooding caused by a border security fence in southwestern Arizona shows the structure is being built too quickly and without regard for the environment, critics say.
Debris and water backed up at the fence during a storm July 12, leading to flooding at the port of entry at Lukeville and Sonoyta, Mexico, and at the Organ Pipe Cactus National Monument.
"One of the reasons for it was the debris that accumulated on the fence itself," said Lee Baiza, superintendent of the monument, a lush desert tract overseen by the National Park Service.
As a measure to divert the flow of people, as opposed to water, the border fence has been significantly less successful.
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Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
And there's this shocking bit, from the "Newshour" transcript:
quote:
Economist Richard Freeman is not surprised.
RICHARD FREEMAN: We're high for a poor country, in terms of inequality, and we're a rich country. We're about the same level of inequality as China. And, of course, China, half the population are rural peasants who are not part of the modern world.
And if we were to compare us with African countries, dictators in different places, you know, taking a lot of the wealth from normal people, we would be among the top half of the African countries of inequality. So, the U.S. really has reached an extraordinary level of income inequality.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Timothy the Obscure
Mostly Friendly
# 292
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Posted
And Rick Perry now complains that the real injustice is that the poor are not paying enough taxes.
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When you think of the long and gloomy history of man, you will find more hideous crimes have been committed in the name of obedience than have ever been committed in the name of rebellion.
- C. P. Snow
Posts: 6114 | From: PDX | Registered: May 2001
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
FYI: there are some questions about the Swedish statistics.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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