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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Purgatory: Mormons Trying to Go Legit
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Nightlamp
Shipmate
# 266
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Posted
I have been tempted to close this thread down for a bit due to the fact it is has become pointless and off subject but Hell is partly about vitriol and this thread certainly has that.
There is a whole new exciting thread here about the arguments that have come from this thread so maybe you would like to take your beef there.
I will leave this thread open for now in the expectation it may head back towards subject or at least develop some reason for existing if it doesn't I will close it.
Nightlamp
Hellhost
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I don't know what you are talking about so it couldn't have been that important- Nightlamp
Posts: 8442 | From: Midlands | Registered: May 2001
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ChastMastr
Shipmate
# 716
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Nightlamp:
or at least develop some reason for existing
It has one!
Underwear!
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Smut! I like smut and nothing but!
A dirty novel I can't shut!
If it's uncut!
And unsubt-
-tle!
-- Tom Lehrer
But I should keep my posts on that brief lest I find myself in a boxers' match; perhaps if we try we can all be in union with each other -- after all, it takes at least two to tanga, and we don't want to step-in to any trouble or slip up.
David
I guess it's just one of those thongs
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My essays on comics continuity: http://chastmastr.tumblr.com/tagged/continuity
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David
Complete Bastard
# 3
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Posted
A question.
Abraham, a 2nd-millenium BC ANE goatfarmer could write?????
Heaven spare me from such idiotic question-begging anachronism.
[typo. If I'm going to use words with more than 2 syllables, I should spell them right]
[ 23 August 2002, 13:45: Message edited by: David ]
Posts: 3815 | From: Redneck Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2001
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
I think the allegations about Abraham and the goat are unsubstantiated. It's one of those things that just tittillates (sp?) people, but there's scarcely any reason to bring it up in polite conversation.
Oh wait. You said goatFARMER.
Nevermind.
Reader Alexis
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
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Rossweisse
High Church Valkyrie
# 2349
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Erin:
...If you find yourself consistently at odds with them, YOU are the problem....
No, just with a few hostile specimens.
But I'll let you have the last word. Go ahead, give it your best shot; I promise I won't respond.
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I'm not dead yet.
Posts: 15117 | From: Valhalla | Registered: Feb 2002
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
Simply devastating.
RA
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
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duchess
Ship's Blue Blooded Lady
# 2764
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ChastMastr:
quote:
Originally posted by Nightlamp:
or at least develop some reason for existing
It has one!
Underwear!
Smut! I like smut and nothing but!
A dirty novel I can't shut!
If it's uncut!
And unsubt-
-tle!
-- Tom Lehrer
But I should keep my posts on that brief lest I find myself in a boxers' match; perhaps if we try we can all be in union with each other -- after all, it takes at least two to tanga, and we don't want to step-in to any trouble or slip up.
David
I guess it's just one of those thongs
God help us all! I will never think of Mormon underwear the same way again!
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♬♭ We're setting sail to the place on the map from which nobody has ever returned ♫♪♮
Ship of Fools-World Party
Posts: 11197 | From: Do you know the way? | Registered: May 2002
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doctor-frog
small and green
# 2860
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by duchess [green]:
God help us all! I will never think of Mormon underwear the same way again!
just out of curiosity, how did you think of it before? ![[Devil]](graemlins/devil.gif)
Posts: 981 | From: UK | Registered: May 2002
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Erin
Meaner than Godzilla
# 2
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Rossweisse:
But I'll let you have the last word. Go ahead, give it your best shot; I promise I won't respond.
Well now, if you meant that, your last post on this thread wouldn't be here, now would it?
So we can put you down as manipulative as well.
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Commandment number one: shut the hell up.
Posts: 17140 | From: 330 miles north of paradise | Registered: Mar 2001
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duchess
Ship's Blue Blooded Lady
# 2764
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by texas.veggie:
quote:
Originally posted by duchess [green]:
God help us all! I will never think of Mormon underwear the same way again!
just out of curiosity, how did you think of it before?
Men and their underwear... ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
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♬♭ We're setting sail to the place on the map from which nobody has ever returned ♫♪♮
Ship of Fools-World Party
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ChastMastr
Shipmate
# 716
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by duchess [green]:
Originally posted by texas.veggie:
just out of curiosity, how did you think of it before?
(duchess):Men and their underwear...
Yes, but is this a good or a bad thing?
Obviously I like it ... ![[Sunny]](graemlins/flowerface.gif)
David
Olaf Benz doesn't make them, though
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My essays on comics continuity: http://chastmastr.tumblr.com/tagged/continuity
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Rossweisse
High Church Valkyrie
# 2349
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ChastMastr:
Yes, but is this a good or a bad thing?
Underwear: It's a Good Thing.
But one-piece undies are a major pain, and, besides, I wouldn't ever want to wear underwear with holes in it. What would Mother say?
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I'm not dead yet.
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Raspberry Rabbit
Will preach for food
# 3080
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Posted
Wading into a thread which already has a very long evolution with several interesting excurses...I'm quite interested in how Mormonism is trying to go 'legit'
Pentecostalism went legit
The Seventh Day Adventists went legit
Why wouldn't the Mormons and the Jehovah's Witnesses want to go legit?
I live in a neighbourhood occupied largely by about five different arms of Hassidic Judaism viz Beltzers, Lubavitchers, etc. Their particular brands of Judaism include a well developed belief in Spirits, transmigration of souls (verging on a doctrine of reincarnation) that were never part of Judaism prior to Isaac Luria and later modifications of Luria's thought by Israel Ben Eliezer (the Ba'al Shem Tov). What holds them in the same envelope with other 'Orthodox' Jews is, surely, 'practise' and not 'belief'. You can believe a rather wide range of things and still be an orthodox Jew.
What about Pentecostals, Seventh Day Adventists, British Israelites, and the lot....? If we're going to dump on the Mormons......?
helpfully (thank me, please by private message!)
Raspberry Rabbit
Montreal, QC
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...naked pirates not respecting boundaries...
(((BLOG)))
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doctor-frog
small and green
# 2860
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Raspberry Rabbit:
What about Pentecostals, Seventh Day Adventists, British Israelites, and the lot....?
I wasn't aware that British Israelites had "gone legit", actually.
Posts: 981 | From: UK | Registered: May 2002
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Rossweisse
High Church Valkyrie
# 2349
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by texas.veggie:
I wasn't aware that British Israelites had "gone legit", actually.
An excellent point.
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I'm not dead yet.
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doctor-frog
small and green
# 2860
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Raspberry Rabbit:
What holds them in the same envelope with other 'Orthodox' Jews is, surely, 'practise' and not 'belief'. You can believe a rather wide range of things and still be an orthodox Jew.
Bear in mind, though, that Mormon and orthodox Christian practice is substantially different, especially re: the Temple rites.
For orthodox Christians, the prime act of worship is the Eucharist. Full stop. For Mormons it's the Temple rites of Endowment, the Sealing of Marriage and families "for time and all eternity", and Baptism on behalf of one's dead ancestors.
Questions about "going legit" notwithstanding -- and indeed Mormon claims that they've restored the True Gospel and orthodox claims to the contrary also notwithstanding -- we're really talking about some fundamentally different pillars of faith and praxis.
Although, that said, perhaps Barmint could enlighten me on the role of the Eucharist in the LDS? Or more specifically, the extent to which it's seen as central? (I know it's standard for Sunday worship, isn't it? Aren't your services called "sacrament meetings"?)
Also, could you please comment on whether any given one of the Temple rites is seen to be of a higher order than the others, or are they all the same as central acts of worship, or do they all collectively fall under one category ("temple rites") which is seen to be central?
Posts: 981 | From: UK | Registered: May 2002
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Pyx_e
Quixotic Tilter
# 57
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Posted
I looked at some of my knowledge of Mormonism and found my self to be woefully ignorant. So seeing as I am kinnda off for the next 2 ½ day I gave my permission to spend a couple of hours on the net (after spending the best part of a free evening last week reading this thread !).
Now I realize that this hardly counts for jenning up and as somebody has said somewhere the sites do seem to be polarized. But my general conclusion after a somewhat amusing and revealing couple of hours in regard to Mormons going legit can be summed up by the old phrase “ a snowball’s chance in Hell.”
Their beliefs in regard to women, people of non-white races, the nature of God, the planet he lives on (yes seriously), sexuality, baptizing of dead people, the sanctity and pedigree of their holy books, the reasons why they try and convert existing Christians……. the list goes on, are bizarre. I have skimmed through the Mormon “Church Handbook of Instructions” found here and can honestly say the “rules” are astounding (well I’m astounded). In my opinion this is not a church to free the spirit but a dangerous religion that could easily (and in my personal experience has) broken people and left them frightened and confused.
We ought at some point to have a discussion about “people who call themselves Christian but are not.” Because Mormons do and whilst individually a proportion of them may act Christian as a religion they, in my opinion, are not. It would also be cool if we had more Mormons on board, but I doubt they could stick the pace. The one we have seems to be flagging. You watch we will get hundreds now, sheesh.
P
Mormon Church Handbook
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It is better to be Kind than right.
Posts: 9778 | From: The Dark Tower | Registered: May 2001
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by texas.veggie:
For orthodox Christians, the prime act of worship is the Eucharist
Ummm, FYI: many, many Protestants view communion (Eucharist) as purely symbolic, as a remembrance, and their churches only have it a few times a year.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Rossweisse
High Church Valkyrie
# 2349
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pyx_e:
...But my general conclusion after a somewhat amusing and revealing couple of hours in regard to Mormons going legit can be summed up by the old phrase “ a snowball’s chance in Hell.”
Their beliefs in regard to women, people of non-white races, the nature of God, the planet he lives on (yes seriously), sexuality, baptizing of dead people, the sanctity and pedigree of their holy books, the reasons why they try and convert existing Christians……. the list goes on, are bizarre. I have skimmed through the Mormon “Church Handbook of Instructions” found here and can honestly say the “rules” are astounding (well I’m astounded). In my opinion this is not a church to free the spirit but a dangerous religion that could easily (and in my personal experience has) broken people and left them frightened and confused.
What, can't you find Kolob on a map of the heavens? You have a problem with a god who's an "exalted" human being with his own personal harem? Or with the idea that women can't be saved unless their husbands choose to lift their veils and say their secret names on the day? Awwww...
But yes, Mormonism is all about authoritarianism and all about money. (Remember, you can't have your temple rituals unless you show the bishop proof that you're giving 10% off the top!) And I, too, know people whose lives were broken -- and, in one particularly tragic case, destroyed -- by this religion.
quote:
We ought at some point to have a discussion about “people who call themselves Christian but are not.” ...
That's an excellent idea, Pyx_e. Care to start one? I'll join you.
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I'm not dead yet.
Posts: 15117 | From: Valhalla | Registered: Feb 2002
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doctor-frog
small and green
# 2860
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by golden_key:
quote:
Originally posted by texas.veggie:
For orthodox Christians, the prime act of worship is the Eucharist
Ummm, FYI: many, many Protestants view communion (Eucharist) as purely symbolic, as a remembrance, and their churches only have it a few times a year.
FYI, I grew up Baptist!
Your points notwithstanding: even in the Zwinglian sense, it remains the prime act of worship, in that, together with Baptism, the Eucharist is the distinctive public proclamation, summation, and distillation of the entire Gospel message - the tangible sign that it has come/is coming/will come to be:
Baptism = death and resurrection with Christ
Eucharist = eternal communion with God and humanity.
One need not hold to a Real Presence doctrine for this to be so. This was certainly the gist of what I was taught growing up as a Baptist, as well.
(Although, obviously, I was negligent in not mentioning Baptism in my previous post. I should have said there's a dual axis of sacraments or some such thing.)
As for frequency, it's interesting. Some Churches take communion every week, because they believe it's so very important that it should not be missed. Others do it once a month or quarter, because it's so very important, that they don't think it should be taken for granted. Either way, though, in my experience the emphasis - whatever the practice - has always been on doing the thing thought most appropriate to the character of the sacrament ... or ordinance, if you prefer.
Posts: 981 | From: UK | Registered: May 2002
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doctor-frog
small and green
# 2860
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by texas.veggie:
One need not hold to a Real Presence doctrine for this to be so.
i.e., even if the sacramental elements (water, wine, bread) are not thought to be the actual media of grace, but are instead only symbolic, the symbolism still direct us to a divine grace that is very real indeed - and is, in fact, the central pillar around which Christianity is built.
Posts: 981 | From: UK | Registered: May 2002
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
It seems to me the CLDS's raison d'etre is that the Church went apostate at some time and there was no true Christian (according to their definition) to be found. Thus God had to introduce a new revelation and re-found the Church.
Thus there can be no fellowship between them and us, because according to them, we are not truly Christian.
If they say we are truly Christian, then there was no need for their religion to have been founded in the first place.
It's a rather tidy Catch-22.
It is taking the CLDS at its own word, to say that if they are Christian we are not, and (perforce) vice versa.
Reader Alexis
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
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Arrietty
Ship's borrower
# 45
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Posted
What Mousethief said.
That is exactly what I was trying to say on either this thread or one of the other threads currently discussing the Church of the Latter Day Saints of Jesus Christ(they are all getting a bit blurred in my mind).
It is not so much whether I can decided if someone else is a Christian - clearly I can't - but I would like to determine if the doctrine of the CLDS is in fact that my Christianity is defective or wrong. The logic, as Mousethief has pointed out above, is that both versions can't be 'true Christianity'.
The Islamic view on Christianity, as I understood it from an Imam colleague, is somewhat similar, in that they say 'maintsream Christians' have received a Gospel that has been corrupted by transmission by humans and that therefore we are wrong about Jesus. However, according to my informant, Muslims do not apparently wish to be recognised as having a definitive version of Christianity, to the contrary he said 'a good Christian is also a good Muslim'.
If, as it appears, the LDS and 'mainstream' versions of Christianity vary bothin the scriptures they accept as holy and in their core doctrines, I cannot understand (but would really like to understand) why LDS wishes to be recognised as part of the mainstream, any more than I wish to be recognised as part of LDS.
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i-church
Online Mission and Ministry
Posts: 6634 | From: Coventry, UK | Registered: May 2001
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Rossweisse
High Church Valkyrie
# 2349
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Arietty:
...If, as it appears, the LDS and 'mainstream' versions of Christianity vary both in the scriptures they accept as holy and in their core doctrines, I cannot understand (but would really like to understand) why LDS wishes to be recognised as part of the mainstream, any more than I wish to be recognised as part of LDS.
I think the "desire" amounts mostly to a marketing decision: the target audience thinks of itself as Christian (whether or not it has actually received instruction in the doctrines of any Christian denomination). And so it is more amenable to proselytizing by folks who present themselves as "Christians, just like you" than by those presenting themselves as bearers of the message that guys can become gods with their own planets and harems, and all the other doctrinal appurtenances which set Mormonism apart from Christianity as the latter has been understood and practiced for the last 2,000 years.
But those differences are so significant that Mormonism is, in my opinion, barely recognizable even for what we might term its originally Christian inspirations. So I think that the marketing decision is basically dishonest.
Along those lines, I've been trying to think of a single "secret" that any branch of what is generally recognized as Christianity keeps from outsiders, and I can't come up with one -- no secret ceremonies, no secret names, no doctrines that are kept close to the vest. Can you?
Rossweisse // preferring Christian ceremony to Masonic same
Posts: 15117 | From: Valhalla | Registered: Feb 2002
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Nightlamp
Shipmate
# 266
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Posted
It sounds a bit like the Freemasons.
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I don't know what you are talking about so it couldn't have been that important- Nightlamp
Posts: 8442 | From: Midlands | Registered: May 2001
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Rossweisse
High Church Valkyrie
# 2349
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Nightlamp:
It sounds a bit like the Freemasons.
Yes, Smith borrowed his rituals from them wholesale. I assume that the secrecy aspect came from them too, or perhaps that was just to keep the "gentiles" from noticing the similarities.
When I was 8, a group of us had a "secret club" with secret handshake, greeting, etc. But we outgrew it.
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I'm not dead yet.
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doctor-frog
small and green
# 2860
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Rossweisse:
quote:
Originally posted by Nightlamp:
It sounds a bit like the Freemasons.
Yes, Smith borrowed his rituals from them wholesale. I assume that the secrecy aspect came from them too, or perhaps that was just to keep the "gentiles" from noticing the similarities.
When I was 8, a group of us had a "secret club" with secret handshake, greeting, etc. But we outgrew it.
When i was 18, we called it a greek-letter fraternity and had all those same things ... plus beer in kegs.
Posts: 981 | From: UK | Registered: May 2002
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
Yes if one had to choose between joining Lambda Delta Sigma and the Latter Day Saints, the beer might just tip the scales towards the fraternity.
Reader Alexis
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
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doctor-frog
small and green
# 2860
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mousethief:
Yes if one had to choose between joining Lambda Delta Sigma and the Latter Day Saints, the beer might just tip the scales towards the fraternity.
yup ... no "Word of Wisdom" there, mate, I assure you! ![[Snigger]](graemlins/snigger.gif)
Posts: 981 | From: UK | Registered: May 2002
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Laura
General nuisance
# 10
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mousethief:
Yes if one had to choose between joining Lambda Delta Sigma and the Latter Day Saints, the beer might just tip the scales towards the fraternity
The beer only? Not also the cuties over at Zeta Tau Wow?
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Love is the only sane and satisfactory answer to the problem of human existence. - Erich Fromm
Posts: 16883 | From: East Coast, USA | Registered: Apr 2001
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
Well there's that too.
RA
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
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doctor-frog
small and green
# 2860
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mousethief:
Well there's that too.
Oh, yes, indeed. There's that too.
Posts: 981 | From: UK | Registered: May 2002
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Rossweisse
High Church Valkyrie
# 2349
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by texas.veggie:
When i was 18, we called it a greek-letter fraternity and had all those same things ... plus beer in kegs.
Beer in kegs might JUST make it bearable -- but only if it's a decent beer. (No Bud Lite allowed, even if we ARE in Hell!)
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I'm not dead yet.
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Rossweisse
High Church Valkyrie
# 2349
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mousethief:
Yes if one had to choose between joining Lambda Delta Sigma and the Latter Day Saints, the beer might just tip the scales towards the fraternity.
Besides, the fraternity isn't going to insist on seeing your tax return to make sure you've forked over 10% of the gross before they let you take part in those oh-so-cool secret ceremonies.
I suppose there's a chance that they might make their pledges wear goofy underwear, though.
Rossweisse // holding out for Hello Kitty undies
Posts: 15117 | From: Valhalla | Registered: Feb 2002
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doctor-frog
small and green
# 2860
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Rossweisse:
(No Bud Lite allowed, even if we ARE in Hell!)
oh, honey: life's too short for light beer.
Posts: 981 | From: UK | Registered: May 2002
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Rossweisse
High Church Valkyrie
# 2349
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by texas.veggie:
oh, honey: life's too short for light beer.
Virtual high-five.
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I'm not dead yet.
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tomb
Shipmate
# 174
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Posted
quote:
Besides, the fraternity isn't going to insist on seeing your tax return to make sure you've forked over 10% of the gross before they let you take part in those oh-so-cool secret ceremonies.
Another reason not to take them seriously, I suppose. They can't figure out how to cook the books and forge a tax return.
Posts: 5039 | From: Denver, Colorado | Registered: May 2001
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Rossweisse
High Church Valkyrie
# 2349
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by tomb:
Another reason not to take them seriously, I suppose. They can't figure out how to cook the books and forge a tax return.
But if they did and the honchos found out, they'd be excommunicated. There'd go that future planet and harem, right out the window!
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
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I'm not dead yet.
Posts: 15117 | From: Valhalla | Registered: Feb 2002
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Pheonix
Twisted fire starter
# 2782
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Posted
quote:
quote:
Originally posted by Mousethief:
Yes if one had to choose between joining Lambda Delta Sigma and the Latter Day Saints, the beer might just tip the scales towards the fraternity
The beer only? Not also the cuties over at Zeta Tau Wow?
I wonder which would have the strangest initiation rites though? My money is on the Latter DS having the weirder ones, but the Lamda DS being far more fun and amusing...
Oh for some ZTW cuties ![[Wink]](wink.gif) ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
Posts: 2384 | From: on the move. | Registered: May 2002
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doctor-frog
small and green
# 2860
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pheonix:
Oh for some ZTW cuties
I'd bet I could dig you up some old phone numbers.
Posts: 981 | From: UK | Registered: May 2002
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Rossweisse
High Church Valkyrie
# 2349
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Posted
Pursuant to another thread, but trying to keep the Wicked Thoughts here where they belong:
In the event that after my death someone undergoes "proxy baptism" into Mormonism, purportedly on my behalf, I hereby resolve to haunt that individual.
What do you think would be most effective? The pale and silent shade wagging a bony finger in reproof? A little classic poltergeist activity? (Tossing around the contents of the Holy Undies drawer, or messing with the treatise on how to "friendship" the neighbors, perhaps?) A hollow voice at midnight, offering disquisitions on the really bad art that adorns the most common edition of the Book of Mormon? (My favorite is the dude in the Trojan-Viking helmet.)
What are your thoughts?
Rossweisse // happy with my present affiliation, thank you very much
Posts: 15117 | From: Valhalla | Registered: Feb 2002
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ChastMastr
Shipmate
# 716
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pheonix:
I wonder which would have the strangest initiation rites though? My money is on the Latter DS having the weirder ones, but the Lamda DS being far more fun and amusing...
I can testify that some groups with "Lambda" in the name have some most exotic initiation rites.
And we like it that way, too!
(PS: Uncontrollably giggling at Rossweisse's suggestion of haunting... first Ender's Shadow and now this. Doomsday is nigh...)
David
has far, far more unusual underwear, too
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My essays on comics continuity: http://chastmastr.tumblr.com/tagged/continuity
Posts: 14068 | From: Clearwater, Florida | Registered: Jul 2001
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Pheonix
Twisted fire starter
# 2782
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Posted
texas.veggie - Could ya?
Posts: 2384 | From: on the move. | Registered: May 2002
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Equinas
Shipmate
# 2907
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Rossweisse:
Pursuant to another thread, but trying to keep the Wicked Thoughts here where they belong:
In the event that after my death someone undergoes "proxy baptism" into Mormonism, purportedly on my behalf, I hereby resolve to haunt that individual.
What do you think would be most effective? The pale and silent shade wagging a bony finger in reproof? A little classic poltergeist activity? (Tossing around the contents of the Holy Undies drawer, or messing with the treatise on how to "friendship" the neighbors, perhaps?) A hollow voice at midnight, offering disquisitions on the really bad art that adorns the most common edition of the Book of Mormon? (My favorite is the dude in the Trojan-Viking helmet.)
What are your thoughts?
Rossweisse // happy with my present affiliation, thank you very much
I'm thinking the most frightening apparition would be the ghost of the professional critic, pen in hand, dispensing written commentary on everything from the contents of the tossed underwear drawer to the art in the Book of Mormon, one's choice in music, haircut, whatnot. Reams of writings, appearing out of thin air, most unsettling.
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Linda
Posts: 567 | From: Deep South, USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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Rossweisse
High Church Valkyrie
# 2349
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Equinas:
I'm thinking the most frightening apparition would be the... written commentary on everything from the contents of the tossed underwear drawer to the art in the Book of Mormon, one's choice in music, haircut, whatnot. Reams of writings, appearing out of thin air, most unsettling.
Don't forget the hideous fashion crime -- apparently mandated for Boy Missionaries -- of wearing ties with short-sleeved shirts. (If a tie is worn, the shirt should have long sleeves; if it's short-sleeved, it's not a dress shirt. And if you don't believe me, check with Paul Fussell, author of "Class.")
Come to think of it, somebody ought to be haunted just for that one fashion atrocity alone.
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I'm not dead yet.
Posts: 15117 | From: Valhalla | Registered: Feb 2002
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
I saw a pair of mormon missionaries-on-bicycles yesterday, and they actually were wearing long-sleeved shirts. This on an 85F+ day. I was impressed! Maybe I'll convert! (jK!)
Reader Alexis
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Equinas
Shipmate
# 2907
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mousethief:
I saw a pair of mormon missionaries-on-bicycles yesterday, and they actually were wearing long-sleeved shirts. This on an 85F+ day. I was impressed! Maybe I'll convert! (jK!)
Reader Alexis
Maybe they bought the book.
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Linda
Posts: 567 | From: Deep South, USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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Rossweisse
High Church Valkyrie
# 2349
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Equinas:
quote:
Originally posted by Mousethief:
I saw a pair of mormon missionaries-on-bicycles yesterday, and they actually were wearing long-sleeved shirts....
Maybe they bought the book.
I suspect that Paul Fussell would not approve of the bicycles, either. He is a Master Curmudgeon.
Rossweisse // who is yet but a journeyman same (believe it or not!)
Posts: 15117 | From: Valhalla | Registered: Feb 2002
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Pheonix
Twisted fire starter
# 2782
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Posted
I've now got access to that book I mentioned previously. It's titled Mormonism. A gold plated religion and is by Mike and Ann Thomas ISBN 1-898938-32-6
Anyway a lot of comments I remember from it have been covered here, but I'd thought I'd raise this gem.. Compare with Genesis and see which one is more believable. Oh btw this is from Journal of Discourses
quote:
Now hear it. O inhabitants of the earth, Jew and Gentile, Saint and sinner! When our father Adam came into the garden of Eden, he came into it with a celestial body, and brought Eve, one of his wives, with him. He is Michael, The Arch-angel, the Ancient of days! about whom holy men have written and spoken- He is out father and our God and the only God with whom we have to do.
Ok... Now bones of contention with this piece, incidentally preached by Brigham Young and subsequently denied by the church until pointed out that it's in their writings and then the comment seems to have been that it's just his opionion...
Anyway this seems to claim that Adam is God. In that case how can he sin against himself? Surely that is a paradox? Also it clearly states that God is in the singular and only one. How then can they believe in more than one God i.e. men are resurrected as such?
The same applies to the teaching on polygamy... Dammed if you do and dammed if you don't. No other church has altered its writings because of political views. It seems that the leadership of the mormon church must be blessed with some special Godly insight that allows them to change and contradict the scriptures as they please...
Posts: 2384 | From: on the move. | Registered: May 2002
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Rossweisse
High Church Valkyrie
# 2349
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pheonix:
...Also it clearly states that God is in the singular and only one. How then can they believe in more than one God i.e. men are resurrected as such? ...
It seems that the leadership of the mormon church must be blessed with some special Godly insight that allows them to change and contradict the scriptures as they please...
You answered your second question with your first! This is an infinitely flexible religion, and trying to pinpoint their beliefs on most subjects is like trying to nail a jelly.
Anyway, I think the standard line is something like, "The god of this world is the only god with whom we have to do" -- i.e., they're answerable to their three gods, and the rest of them are irrelevant to folks on this planet.
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I'm not dead yet.
Posts: 15117 | From: Valhalla | Registered: Feb 2002
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