|
Source: (consider it)
|
Thread: Purgatory: "Secret" evangelical leaders meeting
|
sidefall
Apprentice
# 16394
|
Posted
According to "chatter" on FB and Twitter, today and tomorrow 100 senior evangelical leaders (from across the spectrum) are having a cosy-up at the Norton Park Hotel near Winchester.
They are apparently discussing evangelical unity and the nature of the gospel.
It's all happening in strict secrecy - the participants are not allowed to say who is there or what is said.
* have the names of just five participants:
- Lee Gatiss (director Church Society)
- David Hilborn (principle St John's College Nottingham, former EA head of theology)
- John Stevens (national director FIEC)
- Peter Williams (warden Tyndale House)
- Andrew Wilson (NFI)
So...
Does anyone know who else is there?
Do we have any James Bonds or Ethan Hunts on the ship who could infiltrate the meeting? !!!
[ 20. September 2014, 10:42: Message edited by: Barnabas62 ]
Posts: 42 | Registered: May 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
EtymologicalEvangelical
Shipmate
# 15091
|
Posted
An Evangelical Bilderberg!
Well I never...
![[Paranoid]](graemlins/paranoid.gif)
--------------------
You can argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome': but you neither can nor need argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome, but I'm not saying this is true'. CS Lewis
Posts: 3625 | From: South Coast of England | Registered: Sep 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
Polly
Shipmate
# 1107
|
Posted
Because chatter on FB and Twitter is so reliable!!!
Posts: 560 | From: St Albans | Registered: Aug 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Kaplan Corday
Shipmate
# 16119
|
Posted
Are they all men?
If so, do you think they might have a lady missionary with a long dress, hair in a bun, and no cosmetics, jump out of a cake during the last-night party?
Posts: 3355 | Registered: Jan 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
MrsBeaky
Shipmate
# 17663
|
Posted
At least one woman.
She's a good friend of mine and an all round top theologian.
She tweeted this yesterday:
Ruth Valerio @ruthvalerio · 20h
About 2 b locked away for 2 days w bunch of church-leadery ppl 2 discuss (argue?) n pray. What hv I let myself in 4?! http://tiny.cc/nogjhx
--------------------
"It is better to be kind than right."
http://davidandlizacooke.wordpress.com
Posts: 693 | From: UK/ Kenya | Registered: Apr 2013
| IP: Logged
|
|
Palimpsest
Shipmate
# 16772
|
Posted
Will a mystery worshipper attend? ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Posts: 2990 | From: Seattle WA. US | Registered: Nov 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
|
Posted
They've clearly gone for the 'Perfect Pampering Experience' offered by the hotel.
--------------------
Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Higgs Bosun
Shipmate
# 16582
|
Posted
I wonder if there some who regard themselves as 'Senior Evangelical Leaders' whose noses are out of joint because they have not been invited. Finding out who is not there might be as interesting as who is there.
Posts: 313 | From: Near the Tidal Thames | Registered: Aug 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
Mudfrog
Shipmate
# 8116
|
Posted
Is the Salvation Army leader there, I wonder?
--------------------
"The point of having an open mind, like having an open mouth, is to close it on something solid."
G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 8237 | From: North Yorkshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Higgs Bosun:
I wonder if there some who regard themselves as 'Senior Evangelical Leaders' whose noses are out of joint because they have not been invited. Finding out who is not there might be as interesting as who is there.
Their noses will be out of joint only if they discover that they haven't been invited! Which then makes one ask: who did the inviting? Is this an EA event?
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
PDA
Apprentice
# 16531
|
Posted
100 people in a meeting?
Sounds more like somebody/thing significant (to the 100) has something to say and they have been called to listen and discuss amongst themselves during coffee breaks.
From what I have seen the reason Evangelicals and in fact most other Christians are not unified is ego.
This looks like more of that to me, I wonder who's it is this time.
Posts: 40 | From: Essex | Registered: Jul 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
|
Posted
Apparently, the Chatham House Rule applies. I guess we'll have to wait to see what emerges in the public domain, despite that.
If it's a genuine exploration (rather than an exercise in favour of a UK evo faction) that would be a good thing. Greater openness on a whole load of hot button issues is a cat out of the back in most evo congos, regardless of local leadership lines. Enforced unity just doesn't work.
And there's nothing wrong with confidential debates. If people have taken public positions but have private reservations, maybe a confidential discussion is a good way of "thinking again"?
I'm waiting and seeing, myself. Not much else to be done here at present.
(Hostly reminder. BTW, remember Commandment 7 when talking about named people here. B62 Purg Host)
[ 17. June 2014, 08:59: Message edited by: Barnabas62 ]
--------------------
Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
fletcher christian
Mutinous Seadog
# 13919
|
Posted
I'd say it is probably to do with Evangelical unity and how they move forward in the church. Evangelicals have always been able to muster the troops in a way that other groups and factions in the church haven't, precisely because they have a tighter sense of unity in purpose and can easily work together to out their shoulder to the same purpose. What has arrived on the scene in the last few years is Evangelical diversity - which to be honest has always been there to a degree, just not in a very significant way - which could begin to be seen as the big boogeyman. I'm hoping it won't be as I would see it as a sign of health and makes for an interesting church. Of course, it might all be total conjecture and nothing more and they are really meeting to decide on which brand of fair trade tea to buy for the next EA conference.
--------------------
'God is love insaturable, love impossible to describe'
Staretz Silouan
Posts: 5235 | From: a prefecture | Registered: Jul 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
who did the inviting? Is this an EA event?
I think that's a very pertinent question. At least the Bilderberg Group has an identifiable Steering Committee...
--------------------
Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by fletcher christian:
Evangelicals have always been able to muster the troops in a way that other groups and factions in the church haven't, precisely because they have a tighter sense of unity in purpose and can easily work together to out their shoulder to the same purpose.
I don't think is true any more. There's certainly no one person (man, inevitably) who is identifiably 'the' evangelical leader in a way that say, Stott was. Tom Wright might have been, but he seems to have declined the position.
I, who am still mostly evangelical and go to an evangelical CofE church have virtually nothing in common with a Reform type CofE evangelical. Anything that's likely to appeal to them is almost by definition not going to appeal to me.
I have to assume that they're going to be talking about two particular Dead Horse issues. They will find no commonality amongst themselves about them, since both sides of the argument see their positions as scriptural, about which there can be no argument because the other side is wrong.
At least, though, they're getting away for a couple of days. Hopefully, they'll all drink some beer in the sunshine and come back better people.
--------------------
Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
chris stiles
Shipmate
# 12641
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
who did the inviting? Is this an EA event?
I think that's a very pertinent question. At least the Bilderberg Group has an identifiable Steering Committee...
I find it easier to get excised by the latter than the former, if only because the former are ultimately a lot more accountable - accidentally so maybe, but there it is.
Posts: 4035 | From: Berkshire | Registered: May 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
sidefall
Apprentice
# 16394
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by fletcher christian:
What has arrived on the scene in the last few years is Evangelical diversity - which to be honest has always been there to a degree, just not in a very significant way - which could begin to be seen as the big boogeyman.
I'm not sure I agree with that. I think there has always been a lot of evangelical diversity that people like to gloss over as it doesn't suit their claims of exclusivity.
Back at the reformation, Luther, Calvin, and Zwingli couldn't agree and founded separate churches. Later on, Wesley and Whitfield parted company. Baptists and presbyterians have long-standing differences (as well as internal diversity). The Salvation Army has its own unique approach. Stott and MLJ had their famous public spat 50 years ago and two big parts of british evangelicalism went their own separate ways.
Posts: 42 | Registered: May 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by chris stiles:
I find it easier to get excised by the latter than the former, if only because the former are ultimately a lot more accountable - accidentally so maybe, but there it is.
I can't parse this. I can't work out whether you prefer to be excised by the EA (or the mysterious conveners of this meeting) or the Bildeberg Group, and which you believe to be ultimately more accountable. ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
--------------------
Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
|
Posted
I agree with sidefall on evangelical diversity. Evangelicalism (at least in the UK) has always had a considerable breadth and diversity. We have, however, managed to stay (approximately) unified behind a common purpose (to preach the gospel in word and deed, and the make disciples of all people) and understanding. Bebbington frequently gets mentioned in regard to what that evangelical understanding is: Centrality of the Cross, Supremacy of Scripture, Conversion and Active Faith.
Evangelicals take Scripture very seriously. But most of us are very well aware that we are fallible creatures and our interpretations of Scripture may be at fault. That allows (or, perhaps, allowed) us to hold a variety of views on what the Bible teaches without declaring alternative interpretations to necessarily be be "non-Biblical".
[ 17. June 2014, 11:19: Message edited by: Alan Cresswell ]
--------------------
Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Paul.
Shipmate
# 37
|
Posted
Does it say more about the venue's plumbing or Evangelicalism that two female attendees have tweeted about not needing to queue for the loos? ![[Two face]](graemlins/scot_twoface.gif)
Posts: 3689 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
sidefall
Apprentice
# 16394
|
Posted
Thanks, Alan.
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
quote:
Originally posted by fletcher christian:
Evangelicals have always been able to muster the troops in a way that other groups and factions in the church haven't, precisely because they have a tighter sense of unity in purpose and can easily work together to out their shoulder to the same purpose.
I don't think is true any more. There's certainly no one person (man, inevitably) who is identifiably 'the' evangelical leader in a way that say, Stott was. Tom Wright might have been, but he seems to have declined the position.
I, who am still mostly evangelical and go to an evangelical CofE church have virtually nothing in common with a Reform type CofE evangelical. Anything that's likely to appeal to them is almost by definition not going to appeal to me.
I have to assume that they're going to be talking about two particular Dead Horse issues. They will find no commonality amongst themselves about them, since both sides of the argument see their positions as scriptural, about which there can be no argument because the other side is wrong.
Doc's first point is valid - the differences now are greater than ever.
But Stott was never the evangelical "pope" - as I said before, the free churches rallied round MLJ. Also Stott's belief in social action and his willingness to consider annihilationism also made him anathema to some.
And NT Wright could never succeed Stott. Wright is very much in the open evangelical tradition - his views on atonement, the new perspective on Paul, and women, are unacceptable to conservatives. Whilst I don't agree with everything Wright says, I regard him as the greatest new testament scholar of recent years. I think his rejection by some is a sad sign of the anti-intellectualism that exists in parts of the church.
I think three things have changed in the last 50 years:
1. Evangelicalism in the UK has grown in size. Previously it was so small that there was greater need to work together and paper over the differences.
2. Cultural changes have made large-scale missions irrelevant so there's no need to join in big campaigns. Billy Graham could unite the vast majority of evangelicals in the 1950s, 60s, and even 80s, but even if another mission england was appropriate today, there's no figurehead who could lead it.
3. The grounds for division have increased. We now have the charismatic movement, women in leadership, and now homosexuality, as points of disagreement where the differences may be forever irreconcilable.
I completely agree with Alan that we are all fallible, and we should recognise this and accept that we may be wrong and others may be right. But a big cause of the problems, as Doc said, is when someone is convinced that they have the truth and everyone else is wrong.
That's why I often emphasise the historical diversity of evangelicalism - it helps put things in perspective. For example, Calvinists like to speak ill of Arminians, but if you remind them that Wesley was in the latter camp, they tend to moderate their language.
Posts: 42 | Registered: May 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
sidefall
Apprentice
# 16394
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Late Paul:
Does it say more about the venue's plumbing or Evangelicalism that two female attendees have tweeted about not needing to queue for the loos?
Paul, who are these? Ruth Valerio doesn't appear to be one of them, so you must know the names of two more participants...
Posts: 42 | Registered: May 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
|
Posted
Sidefall: to your previous post but one; that's why I'm curious to find out whether this gathering is part of an attempt to corner the evangelical market in the UK.
[ 17. June 2014, 11:50: Message edited by: Eutychus ]
--------------------
Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
The Rhythm Methodist
Shipmate
# 17064
|
Posted
Originally posted by Mudfrog:
quote:
Is the Salvation Army leader there, I wonder?
I think his best chance of being at the Norton Park Hotel during this meeting, is to apply for one of the vacancies they've advertised. Has he any experience as a sous-chef....or as a cleaner?
Posts: 202 | From: Wales | Registered: Apr 2012
| IP: Logged
|
|
chris stiles
Shipmate
# 12641
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
I can't parse this. I can't work out whether you prefer to be excised by the EA (or the mysterious conveners of this meeting) or the Bildeberg Group, and which you believe to be ultimately more accountable.
The EA (or some random group of evangelicals) is ultimately much more accountable, at least in all the ways that matter.
Yes, they can make some decisions that affect the members of their immediate groups - but crucially they have no power to keep themselves as the only game in town.
Would it be interesting to hear what was being discussed? Sure. But there are good as well as bad reasons for keeping some discussions private - when speculating about annhiliationism is our version of 'defending the indefensible'.
Plus you can guarantee that if something controversial is discussed at this meeting, some of the participants will then bring it up later anyway.
Posts: 4035 | From: Berkshire | Registered: May 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
sidefall
Apprentice
# 16394
|
Posted
Andrew Wilson has tweeted the following:
Figuring out what is primary & secondary in evangelicalism with a Bishop, the head of UCCF, Simon Gathercole's pastor, & five others. Yikes
See https://twitter.com/AJWTheology/status/478854733541941248
The "head of UCCF" must be Richard Cunningham, who they call their director, so that's another punter outed!
Simon Gathercole is a Cambridge theologian, no idea who his pastor is.
And the bishop? Thought it might be Pete Broadbent (did he used to be on the ship?) but his FB page and twitter are silent so no indication either way. What other evangelical bishops are there?
Posts: 42 | Registered: May 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by sidefall:
I think three things have changed in the last 50 years:
1. Evangelicalism in the UK has grown in size. Previously it was so small that there was greater need to work together and paper over the differences.
I don't have access to data (and, I'm certainly not able to remember 50 years ago), but has it grown in size significantly? I don't doubt that evangelicalism has grown as a proportion of number of people regularly attending church - but that's because the data suggest that evangelical churches have been more successful at avoiding numerical decline than other churches. But, as a total number of people, I'm not convinced there's a big difference since 50 years ago.
quote:
2. Cultural changes have made large-scale missions irrelevant so there's no need to join in big campaigns. Billy Graham could unite the vast majority of evangelicals in the 1950s, 60s, and even 80s, but even if another mission england was appropriate today, there's no figurehead who could lead it.
I'd tend to agree with that. The big stadium rallies are a thing of the past. I also think the "celebrity evangelist" is also largely a thing of the past - there have been too many scandals, and let's face it the glare of publicity does have a tendancy to show the faults we all have in stark relief. We do still have some rallies, but they're more often examples of healing ministry, and that's something evangelicals have never been able to unite behind.
quote:
3. The grounds for division have increased. We now have the charismatic movement, women in leadership, and now homosexuality, as points of disagreement where the differences may be forever irreconcilable.
Again, the grounds for division have changed. But, I'm not sure they've increased. Things go in cycles. 20 odd years ago Charismatic gifts was probably the big issue in evangelicalism, at present it seems to be something we can agree to disagree on. The role and ministry of women has also gone through cycles and we're at a point where there are evangelicals and churches which will not appoint women to positions of leadership and some which will, but it's not a difficulty in those churches working together (just so long as the woman leading one church isn't invited to preach at another). The big divisions are currently sexuality (which is a relatively new issue) and atonement theories (which is another one that goes in cycles - basically the whole Luther/Calvin division is a variation on it). At least that's my perspective, but I'm an evangelical sitting slightly outside the fold.
--------------------
Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by chris stiles:
Yes, they can make some decisions that affect the members of their immediate groups - but crucially they have no power to keep themselves as the only game in town.
Would it be interesting to hear what was being discussed? Sure. But there are good as well as bad reasons for keeping some discussions private - when speculating about annhiliationism is our version of 'defending the indefensible'.
I fully agree that there's room for off-the-record discussions.
What irks me is the veil of secrecy over the proceedings as a whole. To me at least, tweets like Andrew Wilson's exude unnecessary self-importance which is exacerbated by this air of secrecy, piqued with a few semi-indiscretions.
It's all too easy in such a heady atmosphere to get a completely inflated idea of one's own significance - and hugely underestimate the significance of those who aren't there. Big fish in small ponds.
Either the organisers should have publicised the event and handled PR appropriately (they could still have kept the contents off the record), or they should have enjoined a lot more confidentiality on the participants.
If Pete Broadbent is the bishop in question, kudos to him for knowing how to be discreet.
[ 17. June 2014, 12:24: Message edited by: Eutychus ]
--------------------
Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
chris stiles
Shipmate
# 12641
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
What irks me is the veil of secrecy over the proceedings as a whole. To me at least, tweets like Andrew Wilson's exude unnecessary self-importance which is exacerbated by this air of secrecy, piqued with a few semi-indiscretions.
I think one of the problems with meetings of this sort are those newly invited to the table trying to say-without-saying that they have arrived.
Posts: 4035 | From: Berkshire | Registered: May 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
|
Posted
I must admit to a wry smile when I saw how excited someone from NFI was to be discussing with a bishop...
--------------------
Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by sidefall:
Simon Gathercole is a Cambridge theologian, no idea who his pastor is.
He seems to be an Elder at Eden Baptist Church, the senior minister there is Julian Hardyman - not that I know him at all (it's an FIEC church rather than BUGB).
The power of the Interweb!
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
busyknitter
Shipmate
# 2501
|
Posted
Reading about these kinds of events makes me want to send everyone involved a copy of The Inner Ring by C.S.Lewis.
Posts: 903 | From: The Wool Basket | Registered: Mar 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Poppy
Ship's dancing cat
# 2000
|
Posted
Given that this meeting is in the Winchester Diocese then maybe the local bishop is there. He is from the evangelical stream.
--------------------
At the still point of the turning world - there the dance is...
Posts: 1406 | From: mostly on the edge | Registered: Dec 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Paul.
Shipmate
# 37
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by sidefall:
quote:
Originally posted by Late Paul:
Does it say more about the venue's plumbing or Evangelicalism that two female attendees have tweeted about not needing to queue for the loos?
Paul, who are these? Ruth Valerio doesn't appear to be one of them, so you must know the names of two more participants...
I just followed a few tweets from Valerio's twitter stream.
Here and here.
Posts: 3689 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
sidefall
Apprentice
# 16394
|
Posted
Thanks guys.
I also got Ruth Mawhinney from Ruth Valerio's twitter (Mawhinney's twitter pic, if it is of her, is a bit unexpected - she's smoking a cigarette and wearing a very low-cut top).
Julian Hardyman is the only person at Eden BC described as a pastor so I'll assume it is him.
Can't find a blog or twitter feed for Tim Dakin, bishop of winchester, so can't confirm that.
Here's an updated list of delegates:
A Bishop (diocese unknown)
Richard Cunningham (director UCCF)
Lee Gatiss (director Church Society)
Julian Hardyman (senior pastor, Eden Baptist)
David Hilborn (principle St John's College Nottingham, former EA head of theology)
Rachel Jordan (National Mission and Evangelism Advisor, CofE)
Ruth Mawhinnney (web editor Christian Today)
Chine Mbubaegbu (head of media & communications, EA)
John Stevens (national director FIEC)
Ruth Valerio (churches and theology director, A Rocha UK)
Peter Williams (warden Tyndale House)
Andrew Wilson (NFI)
11 names so far... do you think it is the younger generation who are more willing to reveal their attendance?
Posts: 42 | Registered: May 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
Paul.
Shipmate
# 37
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by sidefall:
I also got Ruth Mawhinney from Ruth Valerio's twitter (Mawhinney's twitter pic, if it is of her, is a bit unexpected - she's smoking a cigarette and wearing a very low-cut top).
That's Rene Zellweger as Bridget Jones!
Posts: 3689 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Siegfried
Ship's ferret
# 29
|
Posted
What is meant here by "the nature of the gospel"?
--------------------
Siegfried
Life is just a bowl of cherries!
Posts: 5592 | From: Tallahassee, FL USA | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
|
Posted
Can anyone explain to me why it would need to be a 'secret' meeting? In church as I know it, no one is particularly fascinated by ecumenical meetings so the idea of having a secret one would be somewhat ridiculous!
Perhaps we should all have 'secret' meetings if that's the way to stir up more interest!
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
| IP: Logged
|
|
chris stiles
Shipmate
# 12641
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
Can anyone explain to me why it would need to be a 'secret' meeting?
How do you know it's a secret meeting? AFAICT it's a private meeting, which is somewhat different.
[ 17. June 2014, 14:30: Message edited by: chris stiles ]
Posts: 4035 | From: Berkshire | Registered: May 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
Stephen
Shipmate
# 40
|
Posted
It's no longer secret though is it? I mean everyone here knows about it.....
But perhaps we do need 007 on the case. The whole of Western Civilisation could be at threat! ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
--------------------
Best Wishes
Stephen
'Be still,then, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the nations and I will be exalted in the earth' Ps46 v10
Posts: 3954 | From: Alto C Clef Country | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
sidefall
Apprentice
# 16394
|
Posted
My thoughts - this is all speculation.
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
Their noses will be out of joint only if they discover that they haven't been invited! Which then makes one ask: who did the inviting? Is this an EA event?
Given the range of participants, I strongly suspect it is organised by the EA. I can't of anyone else who could or would bring that many diverse people together.
quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
Sidefall: to your previous post but one; that's why I'm curious to find out whether this gathering is part of an attempt to corner the evangelical market in the UK.
Given recent events, it could be an attempt to batten the hatches against the likes of Steve Chalke and Accepting Evangelicals. The timing of it (six weeks or so after the EA booted out Oasis) makes me wonder if they decided a family conference is needed. And some aspects of what's been revealed (unity, nature of the gospel, strict secrecy) are consistent with that as well.
But it could just be a general talking shop that's been planned for a while. I have a vague feeling things like it have happened before, but news hasn't leaked out. The internet age does make it harder to keep things out of the public eye.
There is no way, given those present (from anglican to new frontiers, conservative to charismatic), that this event could attempt to define evangelicalism in the way that The Gospel Coalition tries to do in America, other than possibly coming to a consensus on homosexuality. But arguably that already exists and those who differ are outside the camp.
quote:
Originally posted by Higgs Bosun:
I wonder if there some who regard themselves as 'Senior Evangelical Leaders' whose noses are out of joint because they have not been invited. Finding out who is not there might be as interesting as who is there.
I have been wondering whether Steve Chalke or Vicky Beeching are there. Even though Oasis is out of the EA, Chalke is very much a senior evangelical leader, and possibly still an EA personal member, so it would be quite a slur not to invite him. Unless, of course, they've concluded he's no longer an evangelical.
Posts: 42 | Registered: May 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
Mudfrog
Shipmate
# 8116
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Rhythm Methodist:
Originally posted by Mudfrog:
quote:
Is the Salvation Army leader there, I wonder?
I think his best chance of being at the Norton Park Hotel during this meeting, is to apply for one of the vacancies they've advertised. Has he any experience as a sous-chef....or as a cleaner?
Is it 'cos he is black?
--------------------
"The point of having an open mind, like having an open mouth, is to close it on something solid."
G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 8237 | From: North Yorkshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
sidefall
Apprentice
# 16394
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Late Paul:
quote:
Originally posted by sidefall:
I also got Ruth Mawhinney from Ruth Valerio's twitter (Mawhinney's twitter pic, if it is of her, is a bit unexpected - she's smoking a cigarette and wearing a very low-cut top).
That's Rene Zellweger as Bridget Jones!
Oops. I've had a very sheltered life - never seen the film!
Posts: 42 | Registered: May 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by chris stiles:
quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
Can anyone explain to me why it would need to be a 'secret' meeting?
How do you know it's a secret meeting? AFAICT it's a private meeting, which is somewhat different.
I don't know anything about it - I'm just taking my cue from the title of the thread! But you're making my point for me; many church meetings are 'private' in some way or other. Local ecumenical ministerial meetings aren't for laypeople but only for ministers - and only for the particular ministers who've been invited to participate. I've never heard these meetings described as any kind of problem, whereas the implication in this thread is that the high-level ecumenical meeting mentioned here isn't sufficiently open.
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
| IP: Logged
|
|
Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
|
Posted
Whoever is organising it is free to invite whoever they like and on whatever terms they choose.
However, indiscretions by some of those participating have enabled us to learn, during the course of the event, the identities of about one tenth of the attendees and the fact that Chatham Rules apply.
Evidence of the EA being behind it is strong but not overwhelming. What is clear is that an attempt has been made to gather a sizeable chunk of UK evo leaders/key influencers to talk off the record.
What appears staggeringly dumb on the part of the organisers is to assume a) that all those on the guest list could manage to keep their mouths shut b) that it would be better to try and keep the existence of the event hush-hush than communicate properly about it, even to the extent of communicating that it is an off-the-record agenda c) that acting like this will be viewed as constructive.
[ 17. June 2014, 15:01: Message edited by: Eutychus ]
--------------------
Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
chris stiles
Shipmate
# 12641
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
What appears staggeringly dumb on the part of the organisers is to assume a) that all those on the guest list could manage to keep their mouths shut b) that it would be better to try and keep the existence of the event hush-hush than communicate properly about it, even to the extent of communicating that it is an off-the-record agenda c) that acting like this will be viewed as constructive.
How do you know they have tried to keep it hush-hush? That seems to me to be a kind of questionable leap into the unknown.
Posts: 4035 | From: Berkshire | Registered: May 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
|
Posted
The fact that none of the extant tweets and Facebook posts reveal who the organisers are.
--------------------
Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
The Rhythm Methodist
Shipmate
# 17064
|
Posted
Originally posted by Mudfrog:
quote:
Is the Salvation Army leader there, I wonder?
Originally posted by The Rhythm Methodist :
quote:
I think his best chance of being at the Norton Park Hotel during this meeting, is to apply for one of the vacancies they've advertised. Has he any experience as a sous-chef....or as a cleaner?
Originally posted by Mudfrog: quote:
Is it 'cos he is black?
No - it's because he is the leader of the Salvation Army.
Posts: 202 | From: Wales | Registered: Apr 2012
| IP: Logged
|
|
Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
|
Posted
Perhaps it's a movement of the Spirit that they all just happened to be in the same hotel at the same time.
--------------------
Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
ExclamationMark
Shipmate
# 14715
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Late Paul:
Does it say more about the venue's plumbing or Evangelicalism that two female attendees have tweeted about not needing to queue for the loos?
Nope it says a lot about the tweeters
[ 17. June 2014, 15:39: Message edited by: ExclamationMark ]
Posts: 3845 | From: A new Jerusalem | Registered: Apr 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
Printer-friendly view
