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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Thank you Desert Daughter
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Garasu
Shipmate
# 17152
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Desert Daughter :
TICTH the depressing chimes of "tolerance won" upon the winning of the European Song Contest by an utterly disgusting hermaphrodite monster. I normally do not agree with Russian politicians, but for once they are right in saying that it is a sign of European decadence. It is indeed. And all those weakbrained idiots of the PC thought police who "celebrate" "diversity" ![[Projectile]](graemlins/puke2.gif) can go and take a hike. As much as the simpleton brigades (ie the "public mainstream") have gobbled up the most outlandish theories voiced by pot smoking postmodernists in the 60s and 70s, there **are** things that are abnormal, disgusting, and unnatural. But most people are just too stupid to realise that - they cheer at yet another absurd monstrosity and love to feel good ("tolerant", "open") about it.
All I can say is, why don't you just go and bury your noses in shit? For it seems you have no sense of what is disgusting.
Decadent morons
![[Mad]](angryfire.gif)
I didn't see the Eurovision Song Contest. Maybe the act was terrible. But all you care about is the fact that it was performed by a transvestite? I assume most of Mozart's and Handel's operas are equally disgusting given that they often have women singing the parts of male characters?
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"Could I believe in the doctrine without believing in the deity?". - Modesitt, L. E., Jr., 1943- Imager.
Posts: 889 | From: Surrey Heath (England) | Registered: Jun 2012
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
Doesn't pantomime goes the same way too, with principal boys and dames?
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
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Desert Daughter
Shipmate
# 13635
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Posted
There is a difference between art (and the quirks of an artist) and wallowing in tasteless vulgarity.
And before anyone starts howling, this is not some homophobic rant. It is simply a deploration of bad taste and decadence.
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"Prayer is the rejection of concepts." (Evagrius Ponticus)
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JoannaP
Shipmate
# 4493
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Posted
Gerasu,
If you want to, you can see Conchita's performance here. Personally I thought it was a cracking performance.
Be the best version of yourself rather than a bad copy of someone else!
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"Freedom for the pike is death for the minnow." R. H. Tawney (quoted by Isaiah Berlin)
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin
Posts: 1877 | From: England | Registered: May 2003
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Desert Daughter:
And before anyone starts howling, this is not some homophobic rant. It is simply a deploration of bad taste and decadence.
Um, yeah. Right. Sure, you bet.
quote:
Originally posted by Desert Daughter:
utterly disgusting hermaphrodite monster.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Spike
Mostly Harmless
# 36
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Desert Daughter:
There is a difference between art (and the quirks of an artist) and wallowing in tasteless vulgarity.
And before anyone starts howling, this is not some homophobic rant. It is simply a deploration of bad taste and decadence.
But Eurovision is entirely about tasteless vulgarity and decadence. Why single out this one act?
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"May you get to heaven before the devil knows you're dead" - Irish blessing
Posts: 12860 | From: The Valley of Crocuses | Registered: May 2001
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comet
Snowball in Hell
# 10353
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by JoannaP:
If you want to, you can see Conchita's performance here. Personally I thought it was a cracking performance.
wow, what a set of pipes on her!
I fail to see how that is bad taste and decadence and Miley Cyrus's antics somehow are okay? get the fuck over yourself. I'd rather see a talented and dignified diva blow the roof off with a performance like that rather than some grotesque little child play stripper for the shock value. And I really don't care about the status of the block and tackle.
DD, climb back into your cave like a good little throwback. luckily your kind are dying off, though obviously not soon enough.
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Evil Dragon Lady, Breaker of Men's Constitutions
"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.” -Calvin
Posts: 17024 | From: halfway between Seduction and Peril | Registered: Sep 2005
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
posted by Desert Daughter quote:
And before anyone starts howling, this is not some homophobic rant. It is simply a deploration of bad taste and decadence.
Bad taste? Bad taste was the act from Poland: two females with enormous surgically 'enhanced' bosoms barely contained by faux milkmaid outfits performing a suggestive routine with a butter churn of the pole variety - THAT was disgusting.
The artiste from Austria, in contrast, wore a dress up to the neck and down to the floor and made no suggestive movements. Sure, s/he had a beard, but even that was properly groomed.
And s/he didn't sing badly either.
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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Arethosemyfeet
Shipmate
# 17047
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Desert Daughter:
And before anyone starts howling, this is not some homophobic rant.
No, but it's blatantly transphobic.
Posts: 2933 | From: Hebrides | Registered: Apr 2012
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Callan
Shipmate
# 525
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Posted
Years ago I went to see a production of Julius Caesar at the globe. The actors were all men including Calpurnia and Portia. I hope Desert Daughter was outside with her placard saying "Ulster Says No To The AntiChrist", although I can't say I noticed her.
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How easy it would be to live in England, if only one did not love her. - G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 9757 | From: Citizen of the World | Registered: Jun 2001
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
posted by Desert Daughter quote:
And before anyone starts howling, this is not some homophobic rant. It is simply a deploration of bad taste and decadence.
Bad taste? Bad taste was the act from Poland: two females with enormous surgically 'enhanced' bosoms barely contained by faux milkmaid outfits performing a suggestive routine with a butter churn of the pole variety - THAT was disgusting.
I'd require further evidence to ascertain whether the ladies in question were packing silicon. Having watched the video repeatedly and in minute detail, all seemed perfectly in order.
Also, they clearly had laundry on their minds, not milking.
As to the Austrian entry, well... I fail to see a problem here either. Or aren't transvestites allowed to appear in public these days?
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Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
Obviously your acquaintance doesn't run to many Hijra. The trans or intra-gendered have always been there - sometimes sacred, sometimes outcast - but part of what humanity is.
I'm sorry you don't like Conchita: I thought she was an extra ordinary expression of the beauty and mystery of androgyny.
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
What, exactly, is disgusting about a born male wearing a dress and using a female name ? Or someone being trans ?
What is it that repels you Desert Daughter ?
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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Anglican't
Shipmate
# 15292
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
posted by Desert Daughter quote:
And before anyone starts howling, this is not some homophobic rant. It is simply a deploration of bad taste and decadence.
Bad taste? Bad taste was the act from Poland: two females with enormous surgically 'enhanced' bosoms barely contained by faux milkmaid outfits performing a suggestive routine with a butter churn of the pole variety - THAT was disgusting.
Interestingly, the voting public in Britain didn't see it that way. Poland came top in the UK televoting, with Austria in third place. Because the British jury placed Poland 25th, she came out with a combined rank of 11th place and no points. I haven't looked at other countries to see whether this pattern is repeated.
While the Frau Wurst / Herr Neuwirth act wasn't really to my taste, why on earth are Russian politicians being invoked here? Does Desert Daughter really know what kind of behaviour these sort of people are encouraging?!
[ 11. May 2014, 21:20: Message edited by: Anglican't ]
Posts: 3613 | From: London, England | Registered: Nov 2009
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Ricardus
Shipmate
# 8757
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Posted
Yes, well, Austria is the country that gave us a three-hour glorification of adultery, marital deceit and drunkenness among the parasitic over-indulged drones of the over-wealthy, in which the chief exponent of alcoholic dissolution is the transvestite Count Orlovsky - I refer of course to Johann Strauss II's Die Fledermaus.
I of course stood outside Covent Garden with my placard - Desert Daughter should have joined me but accidentally went here instead due to being terminally moronic.
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Then the dog ran before, and coming as if he had brought the news, shewed his joy by his fawning and wagging his tail. -- Tobit 11:9 (Douai-Rheims)
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Anglican't
Shipmate
# 15292
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ricardus:
Desert Daughter should have joined me but accidentally went here instead due to being terminally moronic.
According to this link, it's Open Mic night at the Pig & Whistle. We should so get DD to do a turn there.
Posts: 3613 | From: London, England | Registered: Nov 2009
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Gill H
Shipmate
# 68
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Posted
I have no idea whether Tom Neuwirth, the man in question, is a 'hermaphrodite'. Neither do I know with which gender, if any, he prefers to spend his leisure time. I don't care, and it doesn't make any difference to the performance.
Conchita Wurst is a drag persona. I looked up what Conchita means (and yes, 'little seashell' is slang for exactly what you think it might refer to...) and it's easy to guess what 'Wurst' might refer to. Plus the dress sense and the impressive beard are a bit of a giveaway. So I guess you could describe the character as a hermaphrodite.
Forgive me for not being shocked by this. I come from a country where men in drag are included in our children's first experience of the theatre, though pantomime dames are usually less fabulous than Conchita.
Personally, I thought she was one of the best performers of the night, which is why she got my vote. I too thought the Polish entry was far more sleazy (and if you think that was bad, you should check out the video version).
I presume DD is not familiar with Eurovision. Let's just say that if you removed all suggestion of anything gay from Eurovision, it would be about three minutes long, and have an audience of about 25 people. Conchita isn't even the first drag queen to have won - that honour goes to Dana International from Israel back in the 1980s.
Now please excuse me, I must get back to my viewing of the NBC's live broadcast version of 'The Sound of Music'. A nice, wholesome story about heroic Austrians overcoming oppression and winning song contests...
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*sigh* We can’t all be Alan Cresswell.
- Lyda Rose
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Desert Daughter:
And before anyone starts howling, this is not some homophobic rant. It is simply a deploration of bad taste and decadence.
Having listened to the performances, I'd say the bad taste we're deploring is yours, because Conchita Wurst was clearly one of the top 2 or 3 solo singers in the competition.
I mean, the whole competition is full of reasonably vapid pop songs that aren't ever going to go down in the annals of music as high art, but in terms of sheer performance of those reasonably vapid pop songs, she was definitely one of the relatively few who truly impressed. And ideally it's SUPPOSED to be about the music, not about how someone looks. Flagrant Polish breasts and a rather short Italian dress notwithstanding.
At least a couple of the other favourites had slightly wobbly performances on the night, in my opinion.
But then, I would have given my top vote to Malta, so what do I know. 23rd place. Sigh. However on the whole it seemed to me the voting results were a pretty reasonable reflection of the quality of the songs and performances. Goodness knows there was real justice in the French coming last - awful.
The main point, though, is that it would help if you could get past screaming "IT WAS A DRAG ACT" to notice that it was an incredibly GOOD drag act and had enough artistic merit to win.
The fact that you're purely talking about appearance, and made no mention of how the song SOUNDED, says to me that you are in fact embarking on the kind of homophobic rant that one normally starts or ends by saying 'this is not a homophobic rant'.
[ 12. May 2014, 03:27: Message edited by: orfeo ]
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
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Ad Orientem
Shipmate
# 17574
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Posted
The Eurovision song contest really gas become contest of who can be the most outrageous, who is the biggest freak. I don't watch it anyway, but that's how it seems to me. But them we are talking about the entertainment industry, most of which is a bit funny anyway.
Posts: 2606 | From: Finland | Registered: Feb 2013
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
Probably predictable of me but I find the singer glorious, in voice and in form.
No sarcasm at all, the dress and the beard are curiously harmonic. They just sort of flow together.
And being aware that some people can't see that beauty makes me feel 1. gratitude that I can and 2. pity that they can't. Your loss, Desert Daughter.
[ 12. May 2014, 04:36: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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The Silent Acolyte
Shipmate
# 1158
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Desert Daughter:
utterly disgusting hermaphrodite monster
I'm missing something. We have a beard and a male voice counterpoised with a floor-length gown, long hair, painted nails, ear rings, eye makeup. I'll give you "utterly disgusting:" there is certainly no accounting for taste. I, for another point of view, don't view the performer this way.
"Hermaphrodite"? Do you mean born with primary sexual characteristics of male and female? There is really no evidence of that. You clearly don't know what this word means.
"Monster." More stone cold ignorance. Beside Lesbian seagulls, God's creation is positively littered with hermaphroditic, sex-changing, third-sex, no-sex creatures. You should do your homework before you post.
The monsters are the quick-with-the-scalpel Dr. Butchers who mutilate babies born with unusual genitals. quote:
Russian politicians
Are you sure you really want to ally yourself with the imploding nuclear state that is Holy Russia. quote:
there **are** things that are abnormal, disgusting, and unnatural.
Yup. And, you have yet to identify one.
ETA: I am always appreciative of your knowledgeable posts on Evagrius, though. Thank you for them and please keep them coming.
[ 12. May 2014, 05:00: Message edited by: The Silent Acolyte ]
Posts: 7462 | From: The New World | Registered: Aug 2001
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ad Orientem:
I don't watch it anyway, but that's how it seems to me.
![[Confused]](confused.gif)
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Jay-Emm
Shipmate
# 11411
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Anglican't:
...
Interestingly, the voting public in Britain didn't see it that way. Poland came top in the UK televoting, with Austria in third place.
Oh, cheers. I think you can get lot from that.
(So Georgian people put it higher than British.).
Personally I thought it ok but not amazing (though am tone deaf and basing on half listened semis, and thought that about all of them)
So was pleased when the countries Graham thought as homophobic proved him wrong*. But got slightly disappointed when it the votes seemed streotypical.
Also pleased the c-saus comments are based on something not just insults (which shows how little attention I paid).
*though I gather the relations between the various phobia's is complex, so it doesn't really.
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
I thought Conchita looked and sounded great.
It was good to see someone daring to be different in a bland and dreary show which had been totally over-hyped.
The voting public obviously loved Conchita too!
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
I was a great fan of drag acts about 40 years ago, as there were some brilliant acts in London, doing mostly comedy. So it's nice to see it reach mainstream. Is it true that the Russians tried to have Conchita cut out, if you'll pardon the innuendo? Fucking bigots.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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Pyx_e
Quixotic Tilter
# 57
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Posted
DD, you want him, badly.
I know honey, it's OK. It's the beard, my mum had one too.
Pyx_e
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It is better to be Kind than right.
Posts: 9778 | From: The Dark Tower | Registered: May 2001
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Ad Orientem
Shipmate
# 17574
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
quote:
Originally posted by Ad Orientem:
I don't watch it anyway, but that's how it seems to me.
One can learn enough of what is going on there through the media, or even boards such as this one, without having to watch it. Yes, it's a big freak show but as I said, the entertainment industry is notoriously funny, so to speak.
Posts: 2606 | From: Finland | Registered: Feb 2013
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The Phantom Flan Flinger
Shipmate
# 8891
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gill H:
Conchita isn't even the first drag queen to have won - that honour goes to Dana International from Israel back in the 1980s.
Actually, twas 1998 - and to be extra pedantic, I'm not sure drag queen is accurate, I think Dana International is a post-op transsexual, which is probably just as abhorrent to DD. The point still stands though.
I thought it was a good, well performed song, not my favourite style of music, but that's not really the point.
Know what I thought was disgusting? The continual booing of the 2 17 year old Russian girls who only wanted to sing for their country on the international stage.
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http://www.faith-hope-and-confusion.com/
Posts: 1020 | From: Leicester, England | Registered: Dec 2004
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
Well, Finland did win with a heavy metal band that wears monster masks. I think a general observation that Eurovision is geared towards outlandishness is fair comment.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Thyme
Shipmate
# 12360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Silent Acolyte:
We have a beard and a male voice counterpoised with a floor-length gown, long hair, painted nails, ear rings, eye makeup.
The majority of male clergy in the main Christian denominations wear floor length gowns, often far more elaborate than this performer's.
As for long hair, painted nails, ear rings and eye make; long hair and ear rings are currently perfectly normal male accoutrements and have been in many eras and cultures for centuries.
The Laughing Cavalier
King Henry VIII
The painted nails and make up are less mainstream in our culture at present but have been considered normal in many over the course of human evolution.
Your reaction Desert Daughter, and your need to post it here in such language says more about you than about the quality of a public performance, where the style of presentation was completely in keeping with the event. Just as the wearing of embroidered and bejewelled robes is in keeping with the events at which clergy wear them.
[ 12. May 2014, 07:49: Message edited by: Thyme ]
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The Church in its own bubble has become, at best the guardian of the value system of the nation’s grandparents, and at worst a den of religious anoraks defined by defensiveness, esoteric logic and discrimination. Bishop of Buckingham's blog
Posts: 600 | From: Cloud Cuckoo Land | Registered: Feb 2007
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
Come to think of it, the labelling of anything from Eurovision as 'unnatural' is a bit pointless. How many acts on Eurovision are ever 'natural'? Not many.
The Dutch pretty well just stood there singing to each other, to great acclaim, albeit the guy has named himself Waylon to increase his country cred and one doesn't naturally associate the Netherlands with country songs.
The Maltese were a fairly nice looking family bunch. Did I mention I liked the Maltese?
But there were plenty of acts being a bit strange. Ukraine had a man in a hamster wheel, Iceland appeared to be emulating our own Wiggles, Romania had a circular piano and a miraculously disappearing woman, Montenegro roller skated, Poland tried to make household chores into a porno, the Greeks sang on a trampoline, the Russian girls had a see-saw and started off as Siamese twins joined by the hair, Italy was recreating the famous scene from 'Basic Instinct', Slovenia seemed to want to turn a flute into a magic wand, and the French... I don't know what the hell the French had, but it wasn't good.
The Australian commentators made a terribly apt joke about how much gym equipment would be appearing on stage.
And against all that, all anyone can talk about is a bearded lady? Really?
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
I'm surprised that anyone finds a drag act outlandish. At least in British culture, they are well established, for example, in pantomime. TV comedy has also used drag for a long time - think Dick Emery, Dame Edna (Australian), Monty Python, Kenny Everett, Matt Lucas, and I've no doubt forgotten some. What's the big deal?
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
I'm surprised that anyone finds a drag act outlandish. At least in British culture, they are well established, for example, in pantomime. TV comedy has also used drag for a long time - think Dick Emery, Dame Edna (Australian), Monty Python, Kenny Everett, Matt Lucas, and I've no doubt forgotten some. What's the big deal?
I imagine the beard has some impact, as drag acts don't generally have that.
But I think you've indirectly hit on the other point: that Conchita gave absolutely no sign of trying to be humorous. The drag wasn't being played for laughs.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
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Welease Woderwick
Sister Incubus Nightmare
# 10424
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Posted
Desert Daughter, honey, if you think that was tacky drag just google The Denver Cycle Sluts - but, honey, don't do it at work!
[codefix. —A]
[ 12. May 2014, 16:09: Message edited by: Ariston ]
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I give thanks for unknown blessings already on their way.
Fancy a break in South India?
Accessible Homestay Guesthouse in Central Kerala, contact me for details
What part of Matt. 7:1 don't you understand?
Posts: 48139 | From: 1st on the right, straight on 'til morning | Registered: Sep 2005
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
I'm surprised that anyone finds a drag act outlandish. At least in British culture, they are well established, for example, in pantomime. TV comedy has also used drag for a long time - think Dick Emery, Dame Edna (Australian), Monty Python, Kenny Everett, Matt Lucas, and I've no doubt forgotten some. What's the big deal?
I imagine the beard has some impact, as drag acts don't generally have that.
But I think you've indirectly hit on the other point: that Conchita gave absolutely no sign of trying to be humorous. The drag wasn't being played for laughs.
Well, in the days when I used to watch drag acts on the club circuit (sounding like some old roue now), there were always different styles. There would be completely glamorous blondes, singing Shirley Bassey songs. There would be guys dressing up as the Queen Mother, sailing across the stage, shouting 'fuck off' to the audience - crude, but quite funny.
Oh, Kenny Everett used to have a beard when he did Cupid Stunt, but this has been accused of misogyny.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aPrOuPxLno
I'm just saying, that drag is so much a part of Brit culture, that Conchita hardly causes seismic shocks.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
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Thyme
Shipmate
# 12360
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Posted
polycistic ovarian syndrome Symptoms are developing masculine characteristics, in particular a beard.
There was a news story in the UK recently about a young women with pcos who had decided to live with her beard. She looked very like Conchita, only without so much make up.
In fact, I spent time wondering if Conchita was a male drag artist or a woman with pcos!
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The Church in its own bubble has become, at best the guardian of the value system of the nation’s grandparents, and at worst a den of religious anoraks defined by defensiveness, esoteric logic and discrimination. Bishop of Buckingham's blog
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
Wasn't to my taste, musically, but if it causes the bigots to out themselves so we can all point and laugh, then it suits me fine.
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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Matt Black
Shipmate
# 2210
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Posted
I have to say that I didn't 'get' Fraulein Sausage's act. Drag artists I 'get'; beards I 'get'; the combo I didn't - I thought the point of a drag act was to try to look like a woman, but this guy looked more like the (intentionally) crap drags from Little Britain. Dunno, maybe I missed the point and it was likewise intentionally done like that in the name of art. Great performance though, and my gay friends loved it, so maybe I am missing the point
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"Protestant and Reformed, according to the Tradition of the ancient Catholic Church" - + John Cosin (1594-1672)
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Jack the Lass
Ship's airhead
# 3415
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Matt Black:
I have to say that I didn't 'get' Fraulein Sausage's act. Drag artists I 'get'; beards I 'get'; the combo I didn't - I thought the point of a drag act was to try to look like a woman, but this guy looked more like the (intentionally) crap drags from Little Britain. Dunno, maybe I missed the point and it was likewise intentionally done like that in the name of art. Great performance though, and my gay friends loved it, so maybe I am missing the point
Matt: maybe this story will help your confusion? For some people, the need isn't to imitate a woman and 'hide' the fact that they are a man, but to express both.
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"My body is a temple - it's big and doesn't move." (Jo Brand)
wiblog blipfoto blog
Posts: 5767 | From: the land of the deep-fried Mars Bar | Registered: Oct 2002
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Erroneous Monk
Shipmate
# 10858
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Matt Black:
I have to say that I didn't 'get' Fraulein Sausage's act. Drag artists I 'get'; beards I 'get'; the combo I didn't - I thought the point of a drag act was to try to look like a woman, but this guy looked more like the (intentionally) crap drags from Little Britain. Dunno, maybe I missed the point and it was likewise intentionally done like that in the name of art. Great performance though, and my gay friends loved it, so maybe I am missing the point
I thought it was quite interesting. Drag is a fascinating form. Clearly, we are not supposed to think that Barry Humphreys actually looks like a woman, when he appears as Dame Edna. The Conchita persona takes this willing suspension of disbelief one step further, with the beard.
It also makes you think about what makes a performance authentic or inauthentic. So there's definitely an MA in there, if not a PhD.
Perhaps more important in context: cracking tune, well sung.
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And I shot a man in Tesco, just to watch him die.
Posts: 2950 | From: I cannot tell you, for you are not a friar | Registered: Jan 2006
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Matt Black
Shipmate
# 2210
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Posted
To a degree, yes, thanks. But it still for me as someone doubtless not as far along the learning curve as others here begs more questions: if Conchita wants to look like a man, why does the individual self-refer as feminine eg: 'she'? Is this an alter-ego or artistic persona (the way we refer to Dame Edna as 'she')?
[cp with EM]
[ 12. May 2014, 10:15: Message edited by: Matt Black ]
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"Protestant and Reformed, according to the Tradition of the ancient Catholic Church" - + John Cosin (1594-1672)
Posts: 14304 | From: Hampshire, UK | Registered: Jan 2002
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Matt Black:
To a degree, yes, thanks. But it still for me as someone doubtless not as far along the learning curve as others here begs more questions: if Conchita wants to look like a man, why does the individual self-refer as feminine eg: 'she'? Is this an alter-ego or artistic persona (the way we refer to Dame Edna as 'she')?
Well, she doesn't look 'like a man'. Not really. A beard is just one mannish element, when a lot of other elements are distinctly womanish.
There are elements of both genders in the presentation.
Our language, though, isn't terribly well-equipped to deal with this. One is faced with choosing to be labelled as either 'he' or 'she', unless one goes with 'it' which has some other unpleasant connotations. Those individuals who don't present, for whatever reason, as entirely 'he' or entirely 'she' end up having to indicate which one is the better fit.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
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Amorya
Ship's tame galoot
# 2652
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gill H:
it's easy to guess what 'Wurst' might refer to.
It refers to the idiom "Das ist mir Wurst", literally "It's all sausage to me", meaning something along the lines of "I don't care" or "It's all the same to me".
Posts: 2383 | From: Coventry | Registered: Apr 2002
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An die Freude
Shipmate
# 14794
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pyx_e:
DD, you want him, badly.
I know honey, it's OK. It's the beard, my mum had one too.
Pyx_e
... and asked for your father's occupation, you'd say "Nun", right?
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"I too am not a bit tamed, I too am untranslatable."
Walt Whitman
Formerly JFH
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Matt Black
Shipmate
# 2210
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Posted
Thanks, Orfeo, that begins to make sense
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"Protestant and Reformed, according to the Tradition of the ancient Catholic Church" - + John Cosin (1594-1672)
Posts: 14304 | From: Hampshire, UK | Registered: Jan 2002
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
There is, of course, a sense in which Desert Daughter and the Russian politicians are right. This is "a sign of European decadence".
Of course, that's the whole Eurovision Song Contest, not just an individual act. We have a continent still recovering from a substantial economic down turn, nations struggling to maintain their economies while not bringing down an entire currency. We have Ukraine teetering on the brink of war. We have nations aspiring to enter the Union with human rights records that are appaling. And what do we do? We spend vast sums of money on the glitz and glamour of a contest for second-rate musicians.
Then again, some people take life far too seriously and should just let their hair down, dress up outrageously and have a good time.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Matt Black
Shipmate
# 2210
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Posted
That is indeed the whole point of Eurovision: to be more than a tad outrageous, OTT, 'decadent', 'last days of the Roman Empire' with a hedonistic heady dose of fin de siècle France thrown in
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"Protestant and Reformed, according to the Tradition of the ancient Catholic Church" - + John Cosin (1594-1672)
Posts: 14304 | From: Hampshire, UK | Registered: Jan 2002
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Raptor Eye
Shipmate
# 16649
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Posted
This whole thread has made me chuckle. Dress codes are man-made. Who says what clothes people should wear if they're male or female?
What's interesting is the way people have come down on DD for being offended by it, as if offence is not allowed in some instances while in others it's compulsory, whether meant or not, as here.
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Be still, and know that I am God! Psalm 46.10
Posts: 4359 | From: The United Kingdom | Registered: Sep 2011
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
posted by Pyx_e quote:
DD, you want him, badly.
I know honey, it's OK. It's the beard, my mum had one too.
Glad it wasn't just me thinking that... ![[Snigger]](graemlins/snigger.gif)
DD is confused? Well, keep in mind that fully two-thirds of Christians belong to institutions where priests wear skirts, are called 'Father', most aren't allowed to marry, are not allowed to have children, yet the institution tells its non-priests they're likely to be punished if they use contraception and are promised everlasting damnation if they try to abort an unwanted child.
In any case, as Pyx_e could tell you, a female can have a beard: my friend Louisa (not her real name) has given up trying to cope with the beard that PCOS has given her and has what is known in the Navy as a full set: there is nothing monstrous about Lou.
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
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