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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Help! I've got a teenager!
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Piglet
Islander
# 11803
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by North East Quine:
... my parents didn't ever "crash" with me when I was a student ...
Mine didn't either - I was in Kepplestone halls of residence, so it wasn't really an option - but I vaguely remember my dad once grabbing an hour or so's shut-eye on my bed having had an early start coming down from Orkney, stopped in Aberdeen to see me and before heading off to Edinburgh to see my sister and brother.
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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music
Posts: 20272 | From: Fredericton, NB, on a rather larger piece of rock | Registered: Sep 2006
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Welease Woderwick
Sister Incubus Nightmare
# 10424
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Posted
A quick New Year prayer for all teenagers and parents of teenagers.
![[Votive]](graemlins/votive.gif)
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I give thanks for unknown blessings already on their way.
Fancy a break in South India?
Accessible Homestay Guesthouse in Central Kerala, contact me for details
What part of Matt. 7:1 don't you understand?
Posts: 48139 | From: 1st on the right, straight on 'til morning | Registered: Sep 2005
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North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
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Posted
This thread was on page three.
My elder teen has turned 20 (I was very young when I had him, not really old enough to have a son in his 20s ![[Biased]](wink.gif) ) and he has.... wait for it.... can't quite believe it myself.... bought himself an ironing board and iron. ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
It feels weird. Years of nagging about leaving dirty clothes on the floor, and now he's not only using a laundry basket, but he owns an ironing board. And he's gone through the ownership-of-an-ironing-board rite of passage two years younger than I did, and three years younger than his Dad.
Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007
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The Kat in the Hat
Shipmate
# 2557
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Posted
Definitely feel in need of some support.
Youngest (15) asked if it was ok to go out tonight with friends for a birthday meal (friend's, not hers).
At 9:30pm I texted to find out how they were planning to get home, as by now it is dark - plus I had foolishly assumed they would have been back much earlier. Reply was that the meal was running late & they were still waiting for the dessert.
Long conversation via text to eventually get that another parent would now pick them up.
Should I ground her for not keeping us informed?
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Less is more ...
Posts: 485 | Registered: Mar 2002
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North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
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Posted
You had "assumed" she'd be back earlier - had she "assumed" she was allowed out later?
If she didn't keep you informed that the late-running meal meant that she was going to break a definite curfew then yes, ground her, but if it was miscommunication and misunderstanding, I'd say not.
Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007
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lily pad
Shipmate
# 11456
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Posted
Not unless you asked her to in the first place.
I'm not a parent, but to my mind, you should have a short discussion now and then bide your time. Next time she asks to do something similar, set clear ground rules and the consequences and then see what happens. I've been out for supper and have the timing be way out of my control and not realised how it would seem to others.
Glad to know she worked it all out even if you were afraid!
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Sloppiness is not caring. Fussiness is caring about the wrong things. With thanks to Adeodatus!
Posts: 2468 | From: Truly Canadian | Registered: May 2006
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The Kat in the Hat
Shipmate
# 2557
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Posted
Trouble is, she has a habit of not always giving us the full picture.
The other dilemma is that she has self-harmed in the past. Our concern is if we get to heavy with her about things, she'll do it even more.
She is having counselling - but part of me feels like its a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy. She tells us she is fine, she bounces in most of the time, except when we are on the way to the sessions, when she shuts down to me.
Arrgh - her brother & sister were never like this, so we really don't know what to do.
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Less is more ...
Posts: 485 | Registered: Mar 2002
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lily pad
Shipmate
# 11456
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Posted
Ugh, teenagers! I still say, much less anxiety of you just let her know how it felt to be you in the situation and really deal with it the next time she is about to embark on an outing. It can be very clear cut - here's the deal, take it or make a new plan.
I feel like too many people try to get teenagers to see the sense of things right after something happens and their brains don't work that way. More learning can happen if they are reminded when they are about to get into a similar situation. Then, you can remind them of what happened last time and help to make a plan that takes variables into account.
It can be a brain development thing - maybe she just isn't able to think ahead to the consequences the way that your other two were able to. Frustrating all around.
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Sloppiness is not caring. Fussiness is caring about the wrong things. With thanks to Adeodatus!
Posts: 2468 | From: Truly Canadian | Registered: May 2006
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Earwig
Pincered Beastie
# 12057
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Kat in the Hat:
Trouble is, she has a habit of not always giving us the full picture.
The other dilemma is that she has self-harmed in the past. Our concern is if we get to heavy with her about things, she'll do it even more.
She sounds a lot like my sister at that age! With hind-sight, I think what would have helped her were really clear boundaries which parents and child agree to and stick to. No boundaries were set for the dinner, so it seems unfair to ground her - perhaps best used as a learning experience?
My sister would have benefited from a lot of love at this point, and knowing that her parents loved and liked her. SH is a coping mechanism (albeit an unwise one), so helping your daughter negotiate growing into a teenager (with lots of clear boundaries you can all agree on) will help her cope with life in better ways.
And if you can avoid it, do try not to compare her to her elder siblings, either explicitly or implicitly. With my sister (I'm the elder one) it not only damaged her relationship with her parents, but with me as well.
My two cents. Good luck - I remember how hard it was for our family at that time!
Posts: 3120 | From: Yorkshire | Registered: Nov 2006
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The Kat in the Hat
Shipmate
# 2557
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Posted
Thanks for the support - hindsight is great isn't it!
All we can do is our best & to acknowledge when we get it wrong.
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Less is more ...
Posts: 485 | Registered: Mar 2002
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Taliesin
Shipmate
# 14017
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Posted
It's a perennial problem, but I wouldn't ever ground anyone after an event.
Teens feel the need to hide a bit, and its normal. Our generation just lied, and with no mobile phones who could check? The key was to get back at curfew time, and I ran all sorts of mad risks to do it.
My 16 year old says he's going out, with a friend, and I say, please text by 6 if you're not planning to be back for dinner. And one night I called his mobile at 9.30 to remind him to be home for 10. But the purpose in calling or texting is to check all ok, not to renegotiate a boundary.
My 14 year old is diabetic, so different rules apply. I need to know where he is and when on the move from A to B. not sure how that's going to work in a couple of years.
Older daughters were very different... if anyone can explain to me how to avoid someone developing an eating disorder I'd be glad to know it.
At 22, eldest is nearly better, thank God. Picking through it together, we can't pin point any causal factors, though I'm very willing to put my hands up to anything.
School was intense, admiring an older sister with the same patterns, feeling anxious about exams, all these things contributed.
I used to try to encourage her to relax and go out more...
Other daughter also had difficult school days, took on EMO characteristics as a shorthand for me to describe, here, but she wouldn't have used that descriptor.
Totally fine now, at 21, happy, assertive, hard-working etc.
Not sure what I'm trying to contribute. Got to go to work now.
Posts: 2138 | From: South, UK | Registered: Aug 2008
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Fredegund
Shipmate
# 17952
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Posted
Another one with the eating disorders. Lothar II thinks he's overweight. We've all talked, gone to doctor's, done the counselling. Now he wants to go veggie - just before GCSE's. His nibs freaked out, with me in the middle. And that's before you add in lack of sleep - Lothar I & II, school bullying, exams, the state of his room, the trail of dirty crockery left everywhere.
I have a terrible urge to turn back the clock and enter a convent.
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Pax et bonum
Posts: 117 | From: Shakespeare's County | Registered: Jan 2014
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The Kat in the Hat
Shipmate
# 2557
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Posted
This is why I love the Ship.
I know it is a place where I can go & be sure of finding people who know what I'm going through and can offer such words of wisdom
![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif)
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Less is more ...
Posts: 485 | Registered: Mar 2002
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Melisande
Shipmate
# 4177
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Posted
Elder Daughter will be 12 next month. We are deep into the sulks and the eye-rolling and the inability to stand the very existence of parental interest in her day.
I'm just surprised by how hurtful I'm finding it, even though I know it is just the insanity phase, and I remember it fairly well myself. I suppose I can trust that somewhere deep down she appreciates that I care, even though she would rather die than express it.
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The door itself makes no promises.
It is only a door.
-- Adrienne Rich
Posts: 302 | From: The western Main Line | Registered: Feb 2003
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
Younger daughter entered teenagerhood at age 8. We seriously wondered if any of us would survive past her fourteenth birthday.
Happily, she improved once she left primary school and while she is "feisty" (for which read: doesn't take any shit from anyone) we all get on well enough.
Our youngest (of five) is 18 in June and there have been a grand total of exactly one (1) grounding. There could have been more, eg for unauthorised & excessive partying while mum & dad were away, but we usually took the easy way out and asked ourselves "What's worse? A grumpy teen in their room alone or out with friends".
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
Mine is also 12 with eye-rolling and general crankiness. I figure it's a backhanded compliment--I never felt safe enough in my family to make a nuisance of myself that way.
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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ecumaniac
Ship's whipping girl
# 376
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
Mine is also 12 with eye-rolling and general crankiness. I figure it's a backhanded compliment--I never felt safe enough in my family to make a nuisance of myself that way.
This is totally true. I was perfectly behaved as a teen.
Now I live on the literal other side of the world and will only communicate with my parents via email.
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it's a secret club for people with a knitting addiction, hiding under the cloak of BDSM - Catrine
Posts: 2901 | From: Cambridge | Registered: Jun 2001
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Beethoven
Ship's deaf genius
# 114
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Posted
Gah. At a loss to know what to do with/about Opus 1. 12 years old, thinks she's depressed, is definitely very sad, but has a tendency to try and 'act' ill to get sympathy. Since reading about depression, she's been trying to show more of the signs, and I'm desperately trying to figure out where the line is between being supportive, and letting her indulge herself and thereby encouraging the downward spiral.
It's of course a lot more complicated than that, but I'm struggling to see how to help her, especially when she doesn't want to help herself...
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Who wants to be a rock anyway?
toujours gai!
Posts: 1309 | From: Here (and occasionally there) | Registered: May 2001
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Curiosity killed ...
Ship's Mug
# 11770
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Posted
Is this behaviour continuous, or is it cyclical?
Just thinking back, at that age my menstrual cycle made me horribly depressed for a week a month - to the point where I learnt not to make any decisions in a premenstrual state because it was the time I'd storm out of things I liked doing, burning my bridges behind me. A few repetitions of crawling back a week later and grovelling helped the penny drop. And if it's that she really may not have much control over how bad she feels or any recognition that it's what is happening.
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Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat
Posts: 13794 | From: outiside the outer ring road | Registered: Aug 2006
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
Beethoven
Is there something going on at school? Not quite sure how to put it but I can remember so seriously stupid behaviour went on at my all girls secondary school. We almost made it a competition to see who was the most depressed.
Jengie
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"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
Back to my blog
Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
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Caissa
Shipmate
# 16710
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Posted
You might want to take her to health care professional Beethoven and let them do an assessment.
Posts: 972 | From: Saint John, N.B. | Registered: Oct 2011
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Smudgie
Ship's Barnacle
# 2716
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Posted
Beets, I will try to scan some information and email it to you if you can PM me your email address.
I think it's important to take it seriously, even though you are not sure how deep the depression actually goes. There is a lot of concern at present about mental health and wellbeing amongst children and young people.
First of all I would really recommend talking to your child's teacher to see whether this depression is something which manifests itself in all settings or just when she is needing a bit of extra attention from you.
There is a lovely set of books of which Starving the Stress Gremlin is one, and they give a Cognitive Behavioural Therapy approach in a really approachable and fun style which young teens can do alone or with their parents. I've not used the material but I've looked thoroughly at it and it looks really good. The image of feeding or starving a monster is a really effective one. By taking the depression seriously and offering to work with your daughter to battle against those gremlins will validate your respect for her needs, give her some of the attention she seeks but in a positive way rather than fuelling the depression (i.e teamwork rather than her getting you to worry about her), and will give her some resilience and self-help skills which will stand her in good stead throughout life.
The suggestion about consulting a mental health specialist is all well and good and would be the ideal, but sadly access to such specialists is incredibly hard to come by and is a long process, and in my experience can be of extremely mixed value.
As others have said, be aware of anything that might actually be on her mind and worrying her to make her feel insecure or anxious. Maybe find a job you can do together (talking is always easier if you're doing something together, makes it less intense) and open a conversation by saying about something which is worrying you or making you anxious (not her), maybe even asking her advice. She may open up, or she may not, but keeping those lines of communication open is vital, and it really helps if she begins to see you talking to her as a young grown-up-in-the-making rather than a child.
If she does talk, listen = sounds obvious, but more often than not we get tempted to interrupt, contradict, or even hear what we want/expect to hear instead of what they're actually saying. So let her talk, maybe paraphrase what she says and feed it back so that she knows you're listening and trying to understand fully what she's trying to express, give her time and don't force it. It's incredibly hard to do! Use "tell me a bit more" or " how does this make you feel?" or "How would you like me to help you?" rather than "I bet that made you angry" or "You need to do this". Again, incredibly hard to do and possibly even worth practising with someone else so that you overcome that urge to problem solve/nag/interpret/divert which is an inevitable product of being a parent!
Not sure whether any of that is helpful to you. One thing that is good to know is that you are not alone. I'm speaking as the parent of a teenager and also as the person responsible at my school of researching and gaining training in wellbeing/mental health for pupils of secondry school age. (Your daughter's school may just have someone with a similar remit - it's definitely worth asking).
Last but not least - what I have definitely learned is the importance of taking good care of my own mental health if I am to support my teenager. Make sure that's part of your approach to life! (And yes, I'm nagging.... precisely what I said not to do, but I know that often as parents this is an area we neglect)
Goodness, isn't this a long post! If you've read it, remember to PM me your email address. And good luck!
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Miss you, Erin.
Posts: 14382 | From: Under the duvet | Registered: Apr 2002
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
Speaking from personal experience--it is possible to be very ill with depression and at the same time be making use of it to get attention or whatever. You don't want to ignore the first, serious bit--the actual illness--because you're concerned about the second bit--possible manipulation. That can be sorted out later, after she's well.
And just in case you're wondering about the early age--my first episode of major depression started age three, and was actively life-threatening at age seven. It can happen, and needs to be watched and taken seriously.
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Beethoven
Ship's deaf genius
# 114
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Posted
Thanks all for the replies!
Curiosity killed... - there may be an element of hormones in it, but she's some way off menstrual things being a real issue (which is its own whole bunch of stress!)
Jengie Jon - I don't think there's any kind of 'trend' for this behaviour at school. There's definitely a school link, but I suspect if there's anything at all deliberate about it it's more along the lines of it being a way to be special.
Smudgie - many thanks for the detailed reply. I'll PM you my email address. I know the behaviour is showing at school, so will try and speak to her teacher soon. I'll have a look at the resources you've suggested, too. You're right about how hard it is to just listen; I know I'm not good at it, but will keep trying... We've talked about the importance of exercise, amongst other things. She'd like to run with me, and I'd like to get back to running, so I think it's time we stopped talking about it and actually put our trainers on! Except that of course we can't this evening or tomorrow... Maybe Friday! ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif) But when we do get out there, hopefully that will serve as both good time together, doing something positive, and an opportunity to talk in a non-threatening environment.
Lamb chopped - indeed. I know that although I wouldn't say I was depressed in my teens, I had a horrible time at school and was deeply unhappy for several years. I know age isn't a barrier to mental health matters, so I don't think that's one of my concerns about how 'real' this is. It's the difficulty over whether there's something truly worrying behind the attention bit which bothers me much more - and the concern that just giving the attention encourages the attention-grabbing behaviour... Hopefully we'll find the right way to be able to help her build positivity (is that even a word?! ).
I knew Shipmates would have a variety of suggestions, experiences, and ideas, so many thanks to you all. Keep us in your prayers!
[ 30. April 2014, 13:46: Message edited by: Beethoven ]
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Who wants to be a rock anyway?
toujours gai!
Posts: 1309 | From: Here (and occasionally there) | Registered: May 2001
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Welease Woderwick
Sister Incubus Nightmare
# 10424
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Posted
There are some excellent books about on Creative Listening - I'd particularly recommend one published in the 1980s by a Quaker woman I knew who was in child psychiatry - except I can't remember either her name or the name of the book but Quaker Book Centre would know if you gave them a call.
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I give thanks for unknown blessings already on their way.
Fancy a break in South India?
Accessible Homestay Guesthouse in Central Kerala, contact me for details
What part of Matt. 7:1 don't you understand?
Posts: 48139 | From: 1st on the right, straight on 'til morning | Registered: Sep 2005
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Caissa
Shipmate
# 16710
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Posted
I would still advocate seeking help from a health care professional. I would not worry as much about reinforcing the behaviour by giving it attention. If you have tried extinction and the behaviour hasn't gone away after a period of perhaps elevated behavior then there is most likely an underlying problem. Regardless a health care professional can be invaluable.
Posts: 972 | From: Saint John, N.B. | Registered: Oct 2011
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Huia
Shipmate
# 3473
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Posted
I don't have any suggestions Beets, but you both have my prayers.
My teenage years were horrible for both my mother and I.
Huia
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Charity gives food from the table, Justice gives a place at the table.
Posts: 10382 | From: Te Wai Pounamu | Registered: Oct 2002
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Beethoven
Ship's deaf genius
# 114
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Posted
Quick update - without any dramatic change (hah!), things seem to have settled down a bit with Op 1. She's still not 'Happy', but the focus on Being Depressed seems to have eased off somewhat. We'll keep listening, and keep trying to support and encourage, and hopefully we'll all get through this!
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Who wants to be a rock anyway?
toujours gai!
Posts: 1309 | From: Here (and occasionally there) | Registered: May 2001
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The Kat in the Hat
Shipmate
# 2557
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Posted
Youngest is has been having counselling, is taking mild meds for anxiety, has self-harmed in the past - says she isn't at the moment, but is now apparently at risk of developing eating disorder.
I feel that no sooner is one set of issues sorted that she starts another. Part of me feels that there is a lot of attention seeking, in that once the attention (eg hospital/counselling) stops, something else will crop up.
I'm really not sure what I (or rather we, as my husband feels the same) can or should be doing.
Daughter won't (says she can't/doesn't want to) talk to us about this, so it seems that every time we see a specialist we find out more & feel complete failures because - around us - she seems most of the time to be ok.
Not really asking for advice, but I know how the good folk on the ship can put things into better perspective that I can achieve at the moment.
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Less is more ...
Posts: 485 | Registered: Mar 2002
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Ethne Alba
Shipmate
# 5804
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Posted
the Kat in the Hat : don't know if this will help or not, but hey...
I had a rubbish time as a teenager, nothing what so ever to do with home and everything to do with outside home. But, i just could not for the life of me find a way to talk with either of my parents about any of it.
After a difficult few years my mother regularly imported other adults into the home, not to talk with me, just to be around. That helped. A lot. Maybe building on the improvements, Mum then set about ensuring that i was talking with other adults, but not about me, on a regular basis.
So for me at that time how did it look?
There was a couple up the road who had a clutch of young children and it was obvious they needed help. I was going on to work with children so the fit was there. Those two women proved a rock to me and actually went on to provide my very first references.
A toy library in our nearby city was desperate for help and my mind was made up when i saw the brother of the woman who ran it! Again, that woman needed my help: i was there for one afternoon a week so they could take more families.
Quite a number of voluntary placements were added, often time limited, until i had a veritable social scene all of my own and somehow the problems mostly fell away.
When they threatened to come back i could take them to a specialist counsellor ; but otherwise i had plenty of attention from other adults who valued me for what i could bring to the table.
Hey. It helped me anyway. I do hope that together you find something that helps the situation you described..
Posts: 3126 | Registered: Apr 2004
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The Kat in the Hat
Shipmate
# 2557
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Posted
To be fair to her, I can see why she would not want to talk to us. There is plenty in my past I wouldn't have been able to talk to my parents about. Not because I don't have a good relationship with them, but just because I felt sure it would upset them & there was nothing they could do to make it better. I'm fairly sure that is the same for her.
Doesn't make it easy though when we are asked "how are things going?" and we reply "They seem ok at the moment", then they tell us that things aren't with a look that seems to say "what rubbish parents you must be if she can't tell you what she is telling us"
I'm sure they are not really thinking that, but I wish they would give some indication that it is highly likely we don't know and that it is ok for us not to know!
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Less is more ...
Posts: 485 | Registered: Mar 2002
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North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
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Posted
Bumping.
The North East no-longer-a-teen decided that it would make for some jolly mother and son quality time if he went through this thread, reading aloud everything I'd posted about him, and commenting. ![[Hot and Hormonal]](icon_redface.gif)
Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007
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John Holding
Coffee and Cognac
# 158
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Posted
Perhaps it's given him some ideas for his next book!
Best wishes to Alex (?) on reaching his third decade.
John
Posts: 5929 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: May 2001
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North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
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Posted
Beloved goddaughter (not quite a teen, but in full teen mode) is going through a difficult time. However, she regards me as uncool, and I've been getting the full eye-rolling, sighing treatment the last couple of times I've seen her.
I'm not sure how to deal with deliberate rudeness.
Although we're not related, her mother has named me as goddaughter's next-of-kin, so I feel I should keep trying to be nice, but I'm fed up with her at the moment. Life is busy, and I have plenty to do without creating time to see her, only for her to be rude.
On the other hand, I'm in awe of how capable she can be - her mother's health isn't great, and there are times when she's caring for her mother, shopping, cooking, organising their household. She's far more capable than my own two were at the same age.
She deserves to be spoiled a bit, and I'm willing to do my best, but whatever she wants, it isn't me. I get the impression that I'm an embarrassment.
Suggestions?
Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007
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Uncle Pete
Loyaute me lie
# 10422
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Posted
Sounds like the eye-rolling might come directly from having to cope with too much at her age. Perhaps you could sit with her mother of a evening and let her go off to do whatever teenage things she needs to do (what you might think of that need is irrelevant)
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Even more so than I was before
Posts: 20466 | From: No longer where I was | Registered: Sep 2005
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North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
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Posted
Her mother's health issues are intermittent, she isn't tied to the house of an evening. However, there aren't many "cool" activities for teenagers to do locally. (She doesn't want to go to Guides / Scouts / church youth group etc).
She and I seem to be going round in circles - she wants what she can't have, and she doesn't want what she can have.
Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007
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North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
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Posted
Although, you're right, she has had to cope with far too much at too early an age.
Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007
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Cottontail
Shipmate
# 12234
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Posted
This isn't a mother speaking, but it worked for me as a teacher - different relationship, I know, but it might help.
The best way I found of dealing with 'attitude' was to externalise it - to put a name what the teenager is doing. So pick a time when both of you are fairly calm anyway, and if she does the eye-rolling thing, try saying gently: You might not be aware of this, but see when you roll your eyes like that - it comes across as really rude. Do you mean to be rude, or did you not realise?
You'll probably get mumble mumble or flounce in reply. But you'll have named the thing anyway. So thereafter, whenever the eyes roll, point it out what she's doing, but make it into a little joke. Oops! There go the eyes again! And give her a grin, and say, Now tell me what's bothering you.
Good luck.
[ 19. November 2014, 12:17: Message edited by: Cottontail ]
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"I don't think you ought to read so much theology," said Lord Peter. "It has a brutalizing influence."
Posts: 2377 | From: Scotland | Registered: Jan 2007
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Caissa
Shipmate
# 16710
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Posted
As an instructor, I often find that naming behaviour is the first step in discussing and addressing it.
Posts: 972 | From: Saint John, N.B. | Registered: Oct 2011
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Zoey
Broken idealist
# 11152
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by North East Quine:
Life is busy, and I have plenty to do without creating time to see her, only for her to be rude.
....
She deserves to be spoiled a bit, and I'm willing to do my best, but whatever she wants, it isn't me. I get the impression that I'm an embarrassment.
Suggestions?
Thinking aloud, which may be way off the mark ... could you say some of this to her? - i.e. tell her that you will always be around if she needs you and she can always get in touch if she wants to spend more *quality* time with you, but that you don't think either of you are enjoying each other's company much at the moment and you're not enthused about spending masses of time with her while she's being stroppy and rude so will cut down a bit for now? (I think she definitely does need you, as I know there've been discussions about what would happen if her mum were to die although this isn't imminent. My impression is that it would be damaging for her for you to drop all one-to-one time with her, but e.g. if you see her one-to-one on a weekly basis at present could you drop that to fortnightly and see how it goes?)
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Pay no mind, I'm doing fine, I'm breathing on my own.
Posts: 3095 | From: the penultimate stop? | Registered: Mar 2006
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
This is probably a bad idea, but ... what about printing out some of this thread and handing it over? At the very least that gets across the idea that you're honestly concerned and not sure what to do, plus that you care. It also forces her to see you as a human being rather than a stand-up cardboard character in the drama of her life. (I'm pretty sure when I was a teen that I thought of most adults this way--as people (?) who would be totally unaffected by my behavior because, er, they weren't real people. Sort of like how five-year-olds are so surprised to meet their kindergarten teacher in the grocery store, because we all know they only exist at school.
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
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Posted
Originally posted by Zoey:
quote:
I think she definitely does need you, as I know there've been discussions about what would happen if her mum were to die although this isn't imminent.
Gosh, well remembered. Her mother is epileptic, and the "what if she dies" followed on from her Mum spending a couple of nights in hospital after a seizure. She hasn't had a grand mal seizure since, but when she has a petit mal she's sleepy and woozy afterwards, so beloved god daughter has to take charge. Plus she's had to know what to do if her mother has a seizure since she was small, and she's had the unsettling experience of seeing her mum disappearing in an ambulance on several occasions.
She's very mature and capable when it comes to her mother's health, but she's being very immature about other stuff.
Now my kids are at Uni, if her mother was hospitalised again, I'd just move into beloved god daughter's house for the duration. So that's less of an issue for me, and would be easier for beloved god daughter, too.
I'm not spending much "quality time" with her at the moment, because she doesn't want to. Or rather, she suggests something, I agree, she changes her mind.
Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007
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Yangtze
Shipmate
# 4965
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Posted
Turn it into a game? Roll your eyes back at her and mock your own un-coolness?
Continue to see her regularly as you pop round for coffee and cake (or whatever) whether she ignores you or not.
And maybe slip her some money sometimes - a pound or two - when you say goodbye - for sweets and treats. "A little something for you, love". Not bribery. No expectations. Not every time. My dad used to do this to me when saying goodbye at university (OK I was obviously older but I think the principle still stands) and it was a nice bonding moment, him showing he cared in a discreet way.
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Sometimes I wonder What's for Afters?
Posts: 2022 | From: the smallest town in England | Registered: Sep 2003
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by North East Quine:
I'm not spending much "quality time" with her at the moment, because she doesn't want to. Or rather, she suggests something, I agree, she changes her mind.
This shook something loose out of the back recesses of my brain. Is there any faint chance that she could be testing you?--As in, I want to know if NEQ is really going to be there for me in spite of my general annoyingness, for the long haul? Given the fact that her mother CAN'T be there for her always for very good and sufficient reasons, plus the fact that she's had to mother her own mother in some ways, she may be longing for somebody to be immature with, someone who doesn't seem too fragile to put up with her nonsense. Someone who may roll their own eyes in response, or even yell, but who will nevertheless BE there, in thick or thin, hard times and good.
It's a weird dynamic, but we've encountered it many times in people who were feeling adrift emotionally, and who wanted to know if we could be trusted to care about them in spite of their behavior. Which they deliberately made horrid just to see if they could scare us off. A year or so later, with snuffles, we hear: "I was just testing you to see if you really loved me." to which we replied (having gone entirely white haired in the meantime), through gritted teeth: "Yes I love you now let me kill you!"
If this screwy reasoning is by any chance what's driving her behavior, then the last thing you want to do is withdraw, physically or in any other way. You don't have to put up with rudeness or shitty behavior--draw your lines in the sand, by all means--that allows her to feel safe and under authority, like a teenager instead of an adult caregiver. Have high expectations and communicate them. But be there no matter what.
So if she breaks plans, fine. Tell her you're going without her, and do. If she acts like she can't be bothered to see you, show up anyway--unannounced, if you like--and cheerfully inform her that she can't get rid of you that easily. Behave like a blood relative. A mother, an aunt, a sibling. Because they annoy the hell out of you, but you can't divorce them. And that might be what she wants to know about you--whether you'll refuse to be driven away.
[ 20. November 2014, 00:44: Message edited by: Lamb Chopped ]
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Curiosity killed ...
Ship's Mug
# 11770
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Posted
The other one is saying you want to do things and does she want to come too. How about a film (Orange have a two for one deal on tickets on Wednesdays) and make it routine for a bit. And that's less embarrassing for sensitive teens - my extremely sensitive tutee will come to films with me - won't sit with me on the way there or in the film, but will discuss them afterwards.
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Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat
Posts: 13794 | From: outiside the outer ring road | Registered: Aug 2006
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
I'd be tempted to talk to her as an adult, simply because she is having to live as an adult for a lot of the time.
I'd also come right out with the fact that from her perspective life seems to have dealt her a less than rosy (!) hand and that it must be hard not to have had the choice of whether or not to be a 'coper'.
Then just say that you'll always be there is she just needs to let off steam and stand back: back that up, if you can afford it, with as generous as you can make it monetary gifts for Christmas and birthday.
Stand back and be prepared to jump to when she wants it.
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
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Posted
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
quote:
Is there any faint chance that she could be testing you?--As in, I want to know if NEQ is really going to be there for me in spite of my general annoyingness, for the long haul?
That has occurred to me.
But mostly, it's as if she has a distorted idea that life is perfect for "everybody else" "Everybody else's" parents have the fairytale happy-ever-after marriage, but she's stuck with a mother whose health is poor and a godmother stepping in now and then.
I wonder if having a godmother when she actually wants the sort of nuclear family you seen in gravy adverts feels like getting coal in her stocking at Christmas?
Her: I want to go to Disneyland, Florida. Everybody else at school has been to Disneyland, Florida.
Me: I can't take you to Florida. But I could take you to the new leisure pool with the flumes, and then your favourite Chinese buffet for lunch afterwards.
Her: *sighs heavily* Goes off in a sulk.
Now, I can see that if you are yearning for Florida, then an offer of a trip to the swimming pool and lunch must seem quite rubbish. But most kids haven't been to Florida, and most kids would would, I think, regard an offer of a swim and lunch as a decent offer.
Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007
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lily pad
Shipmate
# 11456
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Posted
She just sounds like a typical young teen to me. ![[Smile]](smile.gif) I cannot tell you how many times I did the same thing to my parents, it is a wonder any of us came through.
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Sloppiness is not caring. Fussiness is caring about the wrong things. With thanks to Adeodatus!
Posts: 2468 | From: Truly Canadian | Registered: May 2006
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Smudgie
Ship's Barnacle
# 2716
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Posted
Sounds like a typical teen to me, too. When my boy does the eye-rolling routine, I make it into a joke . "Hey, you're doing that thing with the eyes again that only teenagers can do..... do it again, it's so cooooooool."
"Ooops, there go the eyes, again"... "ooh, and again. Proof you really are a teenager".
I think part of the thing is that kids want to know you're there for them but don't actually a)want to admit it or b)actually want commit time to spend with an older person when there's a chance a "better offer" might come along... even when there isn't. (And I don't mean that offensively, but we all know that it's cooler to do things with people your own age at that age - emphasising that you're no longer a child who does everything with an adult and yet not yet a boring old grown up yourself).
Perhaps you could go along the line of "I know you maybe have more teenagery things to do these days but I miss spending time with you and would like to get to know you as a young adult instead of a child. Is there anything you'd like to do together? My budget's not immense, but I'm sure we could find something if you'd like to sometime when you've got nothing else on."
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Miss you, Erin.
Posts: 14382 | From: Under the duvet | Registered: Apr 2002
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by North East Quine:
But mostly, it's as if she has a distorted idea that life is perfect for "everybody else" "Everybody else's" parents have the fairytale happy-ever-after marriage, but she's stuck with a mother whose health is poor and a godmother stepping in now and then.
I wonder if having a godmother when she actually wants the sort of nuclear family you seen in gravy adverts feels like getting coal in her stocking at Christmas?
Ooh, that one stinks. I've been going through it with my son for the past two-three years, because everybody else has:
younger parents,
richer parents,
TV and iPhones instead of books and an antique Steinway piano,
takeout food instead of Asian cooking,
trips to Disney World instead of Grandma's house in boring old Southern California ( ![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif) ).
It's only recently that he's come to realize that he's also missing out on:
domestic violence,
the loss of a parent to death or divorce,
constant moves cross country,
dangerous neighborhoods,
severe family illnesses.
Unlike many of his friends.
I told him all that, of course. But it wasn't until he got a little older that he really started to get the point. (And until he got actual "you are there" experience with other kids' lives who DO have those problems--at which point I think he decided it was better to live with his own burdens than to pick up someone else's.)
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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