Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Furry Family Members
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New Yorker
Shipmate
# 9898
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Posted
(I searched and did not find the old pet thread.)
Anyone have any experience with cats? I've had cats off and on for over 30 years and I now have a problem I've never encountered.
I have two cats, both male, both around 4 years old. Over the past week one or both having started using a spot on a rug for a toilet rather than the litter box. (Number 2 not number 1 - yet.) I've never had this problem with cats except for the occasional accident when the cat was obviously sick. Neither of these cats appears ill at all.
Any ideas on what the issue could be? Any thoughts on a solution?
Thanks.
Posts: 3193 | From: New York City | Registered: Jul 2005
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Nicolemr
Shipmate
# 28
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Posted
Protest against your politics? Sorry, couldn't resist.
More seriously, maybe an accident at first, and once the smell was there they just kept using the same spot over again. Try cleaning it using something that will destroy the scent. There are enzymatic things you can get at pet supply stores.
-------------------- On pilgrimage in the endless realms of Cyberia, currently traveling by ship. Now with live journal!
Posts: 11803 | From: New York City "The City Carries On" | Registered: May 2001
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Welease Woderwick
Sister Incubus Nightmare
# 10424
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Posted
A friend's cats did this once in protest that their litter tray wasn't clean enough! He started cleaning the tray more often and they went back to it - they can be very fussy creatures.
-------------------- I give thanks for unknown blessings already on their way. Fancy a break in South India? Accessible Homestay Guesthouse in Central Kerala, contact me for details What part of Matt. 7:1 don't you understand?
Posts: 48139 | From: 1st on the right, straight on 'til morning | Registered: Sep 2005
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New Yorker
Shipmate
# 9898
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Nicolemr: Protest against your politics?
Thanks. I had the same thought but these two felines think I'm left of Mao, so there you go.
I'll try some enzymatic cleaners in hope that they will work.
And, thanks, Welease Woderwick, I've thought that as well and I've been changing the box daily for a few weeks but the problem presented itself again today. Maybe they're just stubborn cats.
Posts: 3193 | From: New York City | Registered: Jul 2005
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Huia
Shipmate
# 3473
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Posted
They probably won't stop doing it until the smell is out of the rug now. Cats are bloody persistant little beings, especially males in regard to their toiletting habits.
-------------------- Charity gives food from the table, Justice gives a place at the table.
Posts: 10382 | From: Te Wai Pounamu | Registered: Oct 2002
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Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815
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Posted
I was going to write of Dlet's new beard, but see this is only about cats. The thing to realise is that cat's can't be properly house trained. They may give every indication that they have, but then - bang goes another rug.
-------------------- Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
Posts: 7028 | From: Warrawee NSW Australia | Registered: Jun 2008
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
Scrub carpet with biological washing liquid and place their food bowls on top of the area - they won't soil where they eat.
-------------------- All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
I had a cat which wouldn't use the litter tray, a cat flap was the only solution. She never pood or peed in the house again.
ETA - Ah, I have just noticed you live in NYC, maybe yours is a house cat? [ 11. September 2012, 07:48: Message edited by: Boogie ]
-------------------- Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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New Yorker
Shipmate
# 9898
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Posted
Boogie, yes mine are indoors. Can't have them running around NYC. Of course, if they'd get jobs I'd happily install a flap.
Posts: 3193 | From: New York City | Registered: Jul 2005
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
Cats will sometimes do this as a form of protest. Not uncommon when a child, boyfriend/girlfriend moves in, a perceived lessening of attention, etc. If this is the issue, cleaning might not cure it.
-------------------- I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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New Yorker
Shipmate
# 9898
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Posted
Good Lord! The memories of the Great Poop War of 1993 when my then two cats were suddenly confronted with a new member of the family: a very energetic Godlen Retriever. Nothing like that exists now. I'll get some cleaner this evening and give it a try.
Posts: 3193 | From: New York City | Registered: Jul 2005
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Miffy
Ship's elephant
# 1438
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Posted
Hmmm. Possible causes borne of long experience (glares down at current house feline) could be:
Cat attracted back to the spot as mentioned previously Litter tray is too dirty (My current moggie is close to demanding a complete change of litter after every visit!) Litter tray is too clean (try leaving a handful of the soiled litter in with the new when you change the tray) Cat dislikes smell of litter tray cleaner Cat dislikes smell of litter tray deodoriser spray or powder (So do I - the powder makes me wheeze) Cat dislikes uncovered litter tray Cat dislikes covered litter tray Cat will only pee in the tray Cat will only poo in the tray You only have one tray and he/she likes a separate tray for Number Ones and Number Twos You just rearranged the furniture in your apartment and cat is spooked Tray is in the main public thoroughfare of the apartment and your cat is a shy, retiring little creature Tray is situated near noisy domestic appliance like a washing machine Tray is too full Tray is not full enough You just used a new type of litter - cat is spooked by this! You have two cats - subtle psychological warfare is taking place under your very nose; ie. one moggie is blocking access to the tray. (Try providing one tray more than the number of cats and in a different area of the apartment) You have visitors - cat is spooked Cat (s) are bored!
Solutions? You tell me and I'll be a very happy Miffy.
-------------------- "I don't feel like smiling." "You're English dear; fake it!" (Colin Firth "Easy Virtue") Growing Greenpatches
Posts: 4739 | From: The Kitchen | Registered: Oct 2001
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St. Gwladys
Shipmate
# 14504
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Posted
Our very superior British shorthair will use the tray but will not use a cat flap. She likes going out, in fact, demandsto be let out. If she isn't let out into the garden, we quite often find some deposits and a puddle on the floor, just in front of the litter tray. Our Aby uses both trays without any problems.
-------------------- "I say - are you a matelot?" "Careful what you say sir, we're on board ship here" From "New York Girls", Steeleye Span, Commoners Crown (Voiced by Peter Sellers)
Posts: 3333 | From: Rhymney Valley, South Wales | Registered: Jan 2009
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Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815
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Posted
Miffy , you have identified the problem, but not the solution. That is to buy that book and work out which use you prefer. Do the deed, then buy a dog. New dog learns new tricks, if necessary, and the problem is solved.
-------------------- Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
Posts: 7028 | From: Warrawee NSW Australia | Registered: Jun 2008
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
One of our gerbils died while we were away on holiday .
-------------------- Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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comet
Snowball in Hell
# 10353
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Posted
aw, sorry Marv!
NYer - clean it really good and them spray or rub with orange peel essential oil. pledge makes an orange peel furniture oil that works great if youre cheap and lazy like me. careful, though - if your carpet is light it could stain.
-------------------- Evil Dragon Lady, Breaker of Men's Constitutions
"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.” -Calvin
Posts: 17024 | From: halfway between Seduction and Peril | Registered: Sep 2005
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
Sorry to hear about the gerbil Marvin , they are full of character. When I taught full time we kept them at school in a glass tank in peat and sand. They make great pets.
-------------------- Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
The worst part was, my parents (who were looking after them for us) texted us to let us know - and told us it was the other one who'd died. So we got to have the shock of loss twice (albeit with the shock of getting the first one back thrown into the bargain)!
-------------------- Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Marvin the Martian: RIP
(I'm a former gerbil mom.)
-------------------- "...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe." ~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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harmony hope
Shipmate
# 4070
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Posted
Sorry to hear that Marvin - used to love my gerbils when I was a child .
Now we have one aged guinea pig left and 2 mad terriers...wouldn't be without our family pets for the world - however strange that may seem to some people I know!
-------------------- 'God grant me the Serenity to accept the things I cannot change, Courage to change the things I can and Wisdom to know the difference.'
Posts: 645 | From: gentle rolling Oxfordshire countryside | Registered: Feb 2003
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Huia
Shipmate
# 3473
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Posted
Georgie-Porgy fat'n'fluffy didn't come in this morning. Actually I last saw her in yesterday in the early evening. I think she may have been shut in someone's garage because she never strays far from home.
There was a wee shake in the night, but she has come back after all the others. I'm probably panicking unnecessarily but
-------------------- Charity gives food from the table, Justice gives a place at the table.
Posts: 10382 | From: Te Wai Pounamu | Registered: Oct 2002
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Nanny Ogg
Ship's cushion
# 1176
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Posted
Huia - I panic when Zorro doesn't not come back when expected. I think it's natural when we love our furry family so much.
Zorro is in a bad mood with me as I've put flea stuff on his back. Does anyone have any easy way of doing it other than grabbing and holding down? I feel I'm being cruel when I do what has to be done
-------------------- Buy me a beer and I'm you friend forever
Posts: 4137 | From: Away with the fairies | Registered: Aug 2001
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Nicolemr
Shipmate
# 28
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Posted
So sorry Marvin.
Huia, sure hope Georgy Porgy comes home soon.
-------------------- On pilgrimage in the endless realms of Cyberia, currently traveling by ship. Now with live journal!
Posts: 11803 | From: New York City "The City Carries On" | Registered: May 2001
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Huia
Shipmate
# 3473
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Posted
Just after I had posted I got a text message from a friend to say a cat iliving in his block of flats had been hit by a car - so I went out and searched the road, just in case.
G-P came home just after the neighbours across the road drove out of their driveway. I'm not blaming them. I've managed to shut her in too. [ 14. September 2012, 05:09: Message edited by: Huia ]
-------------------- Charity gives food from the table, Justice gives a place at the table.
Posts: 10382 | From: Te Wai Pounamu | Registered: Oct 2002
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
My lovely dog Callum died in April and his brother Gavin is very lonely and howls at night - so I have allowed him in my bedroom and set up a bed for him on the floor.
He's such a good dog, never fusses and gets up when I get up - whatever time it is.
-------------------- Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Lyda*Rose
Ship's broken porthole
# 4544
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Nanny Ogg: Huia - I panic when Zorro doesn't not come back when expected. I think it's natural when we love our furry family so much.
Zorro is in a bad mood with me as I've put flea stuff on his back. Does anyone have any easy way of doing it other than grabbing and holding down? I feel I'm being cruel when I do what has to be done
What kind of flea stuff do you use? When my cats were indoor/outdoor I used Frontline or Advantix monthly. All they took to administer was a dab from a small tube or a little slosh of liquid from a vial quickly to the nape of the neck in the midst of a nice neck and back scratch. (Obviously I moved the petting away from the now wet spot on the neck so I wouldn't get it on my hands and put it somewhere they'd soon lick.) They hardly noticed anything untoward had happened.
-------------------- "Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano
Posts: 21377 | From: CA | Registered: May 2003
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Nanny Ogg
Ship's cushion
# 1176
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Lyda*Rose: quote: Originally posted by Nanny Ogg: Huia - I panic when Zorro doesn't not come back when expected. I think it's natural when we love our furry family so much.
Zorro is in a bad mood with me as I've put flea stuff on his back. Does anyone have any easy way of doing it other than grabbing and holding down? I feel I'm being cruel when I do what has to be done
What kind of flea stuff do you use? When my cats were indoor/outdoor I used Frontline or Advantix monthly.
I'm using Effripro which is similar to Frontline but has to be put where the cat can't lick e.g. back of head/neck. It should be easy to use but Zorro is a feisty cat.
-------------------- Buy me a beer and I'm you friend forever
Posts: 4137 | From: Away with the fairies | Registered: Aug 2001
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Boogie: My lovely dog Callum died in April and his brother Gavin is very lonely and howls at night - so I have allowed him in my bedroom and set up a bed for him on the floor.
He's such a good dog, never fusses and gets up when I get up - whatever time it is.
Callum
You make Gavin sleep in a bed on the FLOOR? What a cruel doggy mommy!
My best friend has a queen-size bed which she generously allows me to share.
Dogs are wonderful -- I think they were God's best idea ever. I can't imagine life without one.
-------------------- "...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe." ~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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jedijudy
Organist of the Jedi Temple
# 333
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Posted
(((Marvin))) Gerbils are such cute little critters. I miss mine, too.
My little Jasmine was put to sleep Thursday night. She was such a great cat, and a gentle,loving spirit, too.
She and her companion Belle have spun their tales on these boards over the past eleven years I've been here. Those were on the cat threads of long ago.
Belle is very sad and lonely. She gave me dozens of head butts today, where one would usually suffice. I am very sad and lonely, too. The huge, painful lump in my throat will probably be there for quite a long time.
Cats like Jasmine just don't come into our lives very often.
-------------------- Jasmine, little cat with a big heart.
Posts: 18017 | From: 'Twixt the 'Glades and the Gulf | Registered: Aug 2001
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Jahlove
Tied to the mast
# 10290
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Posted
Poo in the wrong place after previously-happy use of the litter tray can be an indicator of some illness (whether obvious or not, a trip to the V.E.T. might rule that out) or a stress reaction - has something changed recently?
Jasmine - may she run free and hunt heavenly mice for all eternity and meet you with a mountain of hugs. [ 15. September 2012, 20:09: Message edited by: Jahlove ]
-------------------- “Sing like no one's listening, love like you've never been hurt, dance like nobody's watching, and live like its heaven on earth.” - Mark Twain
Posts: 6477 | From: Alice's Restaurant (UK Franchise) | Registered: Sep 2005
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malik3000
Shipmate
# 11437
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Posted
Marvin's gerbil
Jasmine
and Belle who misses her
Callum
and his lonely brother Gavin
and the humans who miss their beloved companions
-------------------- God = love. Otherwise, things are not just black or white.
Posts: 3149 | From: North America | Registered: May 2006
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comet
Snowball in Hell
# 10353
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Posted
I was so sorry to hear about Jasmine at that other website... (what? there are other websites?) I feel like I knew her.
can I take a moment to bitch about dogs? I love my dogs. all combined 300+ lbs of dog flesh. they're three lovely giant creatures and normally very gentle souls. But it's pouring rain here (we're actually on flood watch at this point) and all three are stuck in the house and bored and getting pissy with each other. Duke and Kaila got into it an hour ago - all great roaring noise but it doesn't appear they did any actual harm to each other - but Duke bit a big old hole in his own lip. Now I'm just back from having my hand in his mouth (canine actually got lodged in the lip... nevermind. you don't want details) and trying to get antibiotics in a place that you don't really want to spend a lot of time with your hands and face in there. And he's locked in one room while she's locked in the bathroom and Frodo is trying to look very small in the kitchen and I have blood on my pajamas and all four of us are pouting.
I'm wishing I kept goldfish.
-------------------- Evil Dragon Lady, Breaker of Men's Constitutions
"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.” -Calvin
Posts: 17024 | From: halfway between Seduction and Peril | Registered: Sep 2005
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New Yorker
Shipmate
# 9898
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Posted
For all the pets who've made this vale of tears a little easier and now wait for us on another shore.
And, for big dogs with cabin fever. Been there (sort of).
Posts: 3193 | From: New York City | Registered: Jul 2005
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Little Miss Methodist
Ship's Diplomat
# 1000
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Nanny Ogg: Zorro is in a bad mood with me as I've put flea stuff on his back. Does anyone have any easy way of doing it other than grabbing and holding down? I feel I'm being cruel when I do what has to be done
I wait till my cats are sound asleep - they invariably wake up half way through but that's better than being awake all the way through! Incidentally, I've recently found that Frontline just doesn't cut it any more and the fleas were immune - moved to Advocate instead.
I once had a cat who was long haired and I used to have to trim her...um...bum fluff otherwise things got a bit messy. I used to wait till she was sound asleep then don the thick gardening gloves and have at it with a pair of scissors. When she woke up (and she always did) the gloves provided protection from what I call "bunny footing" - wrap both front paws around my arm, sink teeth in and rip at my arm with her back feet in a bunny-like motion. She used to howl like she was being murdered, but it wasn't even a full brazillian or anything!
Regarding urine on the carpet. I used to eliminate odours and stop the cat (same one as above) from returning using distilled vinegar. You soak up as much urine as you can from the carpet with paper towels or whatever, then pour a 50 / 50 mix of distilled vinegar and water onto the area, at least as much in volume as the amount of urine that was there. It eliminates the urine odour and stops the cats going back there because they don't like the vinegar smell. Ok, so that spot smells like vinegar for a little while but there are much worse things to smell of and cat pee is one of them!
-------------------- Tell me where you learned the magic, The spell you used the day you made me fall....
Posts: 1628 | From: Caretaker of the Overlook Hotel | Registered: Apr 2003
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numpty norah
Apprentice
# 17260
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Posted
nope grabbing and squirting is the way to go
litter tray-the ratio is one per cat plus one extra(to prevent guarding or something...yes i read the weirdo cat training books,more in hope than expectation) so if you only have one tray for 2 cats chances are 1 cat isn't letting the other in when it needs or 1 got spooked and just went where it was.
Posts: 2 | From: dundee | Registered: Aug 2012
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Nicolemr
Shipmate
# 28
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Posted
So sorry to hear, Jedijudy.
-------------------- On pilgrimage in the endless realms of Cyberia, currently traveling by ship. Now with live journal!
Posts: 11803 | From: New York City "The City Carries On" | Registered: May 2001
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jedijudy
Organist of the Jedi Temple
# 333
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Posted
Thank you all for your kind words and thoughts. They really do help me and are a great comfort.
-------------------- Jasmine, little cat with a big heart.
Posts: 18017 | From: 'Twixt the 'Glades and the Gulf | Registered: Aug 2001
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Taliesin
Shipmate
# 14017
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Posted
for Jasmine, may she sleep on that hallowed hearth forever.
I'm remembering ol' Calico, a cat who came to us complete with tiny kittens from a rescue centre, and stayed with us for 16 years. A smart and almost silent feline. Who even forgave us (eventually) for bringing home a new dog...
I am in a land that isn't home, and there is a family of cats living in the garden. I am secretly offering scraps - it's a mum and 3 kittens I guess about 12 - 15 weeks old. I suspect there used to be a fourth kitten, and one of the 3 has only half a tail.
Within days of getting here there was a puppy who nearly broke me. My own dogs are safe and well at home... but I gave him food and water almost against my own better judgement, and some locals adopted him!!
Posts: 2138 | From: South, UK | Registered: Aug 2008
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sophs
Sardonic Angel
# 2296
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Taliesin: for Jasmine, may she sleep on that hallowed hearth forever.
I'm remembering ol' Calico, a cat who came to us complete with tiny kittens from a rescue centre, and stayed with us for 16 years. A smart and almost silent feline. Who even forgave us (eventually) for bringing home a new dog...
I am in a land that isn't home, and there is a family of cats living in the garden. I am secretly offering scraps - it's a mum and 3 kittens I guess about 12 - 15 weeks old. I suspect there used to be a fourth kitten, and one of the 3 has only half a tail.
Within days of getting here there was a puppy who nearly broke me. My own dogs are safe and well at home... but I gave him food and water almost against my own better judgement, and some locals adopted him!!
If you phone your local branch of cats protection they will neuter them for a donation/free. PM me if you want more info, but I've just been taking the furry ones across the road to get their bits chopped off! My own furry babies are coping very well with having the odd cat in the house in a cat box.
Posts: 5407 | From: searching saharas of sorrow | Registered: Feb 2002
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The Intrepid Mrs S
Shipmate
# 17002
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Posted
Our long-standing rescue cat - we've had her 9 years - has always been loud and 'needy' but recently has been driving The Retired Mr. S mad by yowling. She has developed the most blood-curdling caterwaul you can imagine, but if we rush off to find her she doesn't seem to be in any pain, may just be standing in the middle of a room, or lying down quite comfortably - we think she may be losing what feline marbles she used to have *sigh*.
And she will cry for food, even though her dish is still half-full in fact, she appears content only when asleep or lying on my lap getting in the way of the crossword
Mrs. S, resigned to being a cat-cushion
-------------------- Don't get your knickers in a twist over your advancing age. It achieves nothing and makes you walk funny. Prayer should be our first recourse, not our last resort 'Lord, please give us patience. NOW!'
Posts: 1464 | From: Neither here nor there | Registered: Mar 2012
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Ye Olde Motherboarde
Ship's Mother and Singing Quilter
# 54
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by comet:
I'm wishing I kept goldfish.
Yep, same here, but then I wouldn't get those sweet little eyes looking up at me and asking for love (or food, or treats or let me out) There are some days not having to get up and down to let them out yet again, goldfish would be preferable or a pet rock might be good.
-------------------- In Memory of Miss Molly, TimC, Gambit, KenWritez, koheleth, Leetle Masha, JLG, Genevieve, Erin, RuthW2, deuce2, Sidi and TonyCoxon, unbeliever, Morlader, Ken :tear: 20 years but who’s counting?..................
Posts: 4292 | From: Looking for more trouble to get into | Registered: May 2001
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St Everild
Shipmate
# 3626
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Posted
Mrs S - our two elderly cats are exhibiting the same behaviour...the unearthly wailing at nothing and the clingy wanting to be Very Close to you all the time. I think its part of the ageing process, TBH, but it does get a bit wearing!
Posts: 1782 | From: Bethnei | Registered: Dec 2002
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jedijudy
Organist of the Jedi Temple
# 333
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Posted
Jasmine used to vocalize at nothing. We called it 'talking to the wall'. Sometimes she would go in the shower and talk. Maybe it was resonant and pleasing to her ears?
-------------------- Jasmine, little cat with a big heart.
Posts: 18017 | From: 'Twixt the 'Glades and the Gulf | Registered: Aug 2001
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Beethoven
Ship's deaf genius
# 114
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Posted
(hugs) jj. My Old Cat was put to sleep in January, and I miss her badly still. It doesn't help that our next door neighbour has a cat who looks very similar, and sits in their window most of the day... Mr B is holding out against adopting another cat, on the grounds that Young Cat is clearly very happy as an Only Cat, and would be most miffed to have an interloper on his patch. There is some truth in this, but I'm dearly missing having a little black & white fluff around...
-------------------- Who wants to be a rock anyway?
toujours gai!
Posts: 1309 | From: Here (and occasionally there) | Registered: May 2001
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Aravis
Shipmate
# 13824
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Posted
I could use some advice. We have a large, agile cat (Mick) who enjoys a good fight (though he doesn't always win any more now he's ten, and is no longer allowed out after about 10pm). Our next door neighbour has just told me she's getting a cat for her daughter's next birthday. How do I prevent Mick from systematically shredding the new arrival? There's no possibility of keeping them separate; there's a high fence between us, but he can reach their garden easily via the garage roof or the back lane. Nor is there any chance that Elin will be satisfied with a different type of pet. Should we formally introduce the two cats or would that make it worse?
Posts: 689 | From: S Wales | Registered: Jun 2008
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Nanny Ogg
Ship's cushion
# 1176
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Posted
Aravis I don't think there is anything you can do Cats are territorial creatures and they will fight over dominance.
The only thing you can hope for is that they get a female cat as toms tend to "allow" them on their patch.
-------------------- Buy me a beer and I'm you friend forever
Posts: 4137 | From: Away with the fairies | Registered: Aug 2001
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