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Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
Just after Jeremy Corbyn was elected, David Cameron sent a message out:

"The Labour party is now a threat to our national security, our economic security, and your families security"

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In truth, I believe Corbyn would improve our national security, because he is prepared to talk to people he opposes. A far better way.

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Originally posted by Anglican't:
It's going to be a long five years for you guys.

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Originally posted by rolyn:

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Originally posted by Anglican't:
It's going to be a long five years for you guys.

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Five years? Even that could be optimistic.

The Cameron years aren't the same as the the thatcher years but the reason Labour couldn't break through then is because it made itself unelectable on defence.
If Middle England is ready to lay down it arms come the next election JC might be in with a sniff. Don't hold the breath on that one.

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Originally posted by Anglican't:
Would this be a good time to remind ourselves that Jeremy Corbyn chaired (in fact, continues to chair) an organisation that effectively called for the killing of British soldiers?

“The Stop the War Coalition reaffirms its call for an end to the occupation, the return of all British troops in Iraq to this country and recognises once more the legitimacy of the struggle of Iraqis, by whatever means they find necessary, to secure such ends.”

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Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
Yes, I know training accidents happen, but can you explain the logic that says bringing troops out of a barely legal occupation of another country is going to kill them?

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Originally posted by leo:
Cameron simply isn't very bright.

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Ariel: The world may look very different in five years' time. I think whether we like it or not or agree to it or not, we are probably on the brink of war.

The jihadists will push for it anyway - it's part of an ancient prophecy that their "Armageddon" will start in one of two named places, either in Syria or Turkey, where the forces of "Rome" will be utterly defeated and after that the Islamic caliphate will reign supreme with Jesus returning to help them. They aren't going to settle for any dialogue with the evil West while they think there's still a chance of that happening.

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Originally posted by LeRoc:
Whoa, you believe this shit?

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Ariel: I personally don't, but I believe that many of them believe it.

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Ariel: The world may look very different in five years' time. I think whether we like it or not or agree to it or not, we are probably on the brink of war.

The jihadists will push for it anyway - it's part of an ancient prophecy that their "Armageddon" will start in one of two named places, either in Syria or Turkey, where the forces of "Rome" will be utterly defeated and after that the Islamic caliphate will reign supreme with Jesus returning to help them. They aren't going to settle for any dialogue with the evil West while they think there's still a chance of that happening.

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Originally posted by LeRoc:
That wasn't what I was talking about.

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Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
Reminds me of the Falklands factor - I always wondered if Blair thought he might get the same with Iraq, but no. Does Cameron fancy a Damascus factor? He would get it if there was a breakthrough and a deal over Syria. Corbyn would be dead meat.

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Originally posted by Doublethink.:
I don't think it will work IRRC both Iraq and Afghanistan were supported by all main parties. Basically, no politician is prepared to be seen not supporting "our boys" once push comes to shove.

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Originally posted by Doublethink.:
I don't think it will work IRRC both Iraq and Afghanistan were supported by all main parties. Basically, no politician is prepared to be seen not supporting "our boys" once push comes to shove.

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Originally posted by leo:
Cameron simply isn't very bright. He thinks in stereotypes.

I am very pleased that Corbyn was elected.

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Originally posted by Anglican't:

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Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
Yes, I know training accidents happen, but can you explain the logic that says bringing troops out of a barely legal occupation of another country is going to kill them?

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To clarify, the statement was made in 2004 when an insurgency was taking place in Iraq. I don't think the second-half of the quote is calling only for a return to barracks.

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Originally posted by orfeo:

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Originally posted by Anglican't:

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Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
Yes, I know training accidents happen, but can you explain the logic that says bringing troops out of a barely legal occupation of another country is going to kill them?

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To clarify, the statement was made in 2004 when an insurgency was taking place in Iraq. I don't think the second-half of the quote is calling only for a return to barracks.

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It's like you don't know what the words "such ends" mean.

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Originally posted by Anglican't:

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Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
Yes, I know training accidents happen, but can you explain the logic that says bringing troops out of a barely legal occupation of another country is going to kill them?

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To clarify, the statement was made in 2004 when an insurgency was taking place in Iraq. I don't think the second-half of the quote is calling only for a return to barracks.

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Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
Just after Jeremy Corbyn was elected, David Cameron sent a message out:

"The Labour party is now a threat to out national security, our economic security, and your families security"

You total and utter, immoral pile of foetid shit.

1. Corbyn opposes nuclear weapons. Apparently that is a threat to our national security - more than your continual aggression towards the middle east.

Nuclear weapons are an irrelevance today. They are a way of you syphoning off more money to your cronies, and not to those who need it - the poor in our society. We are not going to nuke Syria, or Afghanistan, or Calais. Scrapping them is NOT a threat to our national security.

In truth, I believe Corbyn would improve our national security, because he is prepared to talk to people he opposes. A far better way.

2. The biggest threat to our economic security as a nation is you, Mr Cameron. Corbyn is a real threat to the economic security of the very rich, including yourself and a number of members of your cabinet. He is a threat to the bankers, the people - in case you have forgotten - who caused the economic crisis in the first place. He is a huge threat to the economic security of the 1%.

But for the country, for the 99%, he is no threat. I am SICK of the constant talk that a socialist approach to economics is a threat. It is different, it has a different set of success indicators, but it can work. Unless you happen to be in the 1%.

And if you happen to be a corrupt, manipulative, lying bastard, then yes, Corbyn is a threat. The sooner you and your cronies get the fucking you deserve, the better.

3. My families security is under severe threat from your policies. It is your austerity measures, your damaging of our economy that threatens my families security. Having to change job, not being able to retire or be declared disabled. It is your policies that mean my children struggle to find good jobs.

Cameron, you suck. You are desperately scared of someone with principles, morals, ideas, someone who is not scared of you, because Corbyn will show up your utter lack of these. Your only response is, once again, to try to spread fear, uncertainty and doubt.

Rot in hell, you loathsome, vile prick. And when you have rotted there, rot some more.

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Originally posted by GCabot:
... Corbyn did quite plainly say that he cannot think of any scenarios where he would back external deployment of British troops...

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from The Guardian: Asked by Kendall whether there were any circumstances in which he would deploy military forces, Corbyn said: “Any? I am sure there are some. But I can’t think of them at the moment.”

In a Guardian interview last month, Corbyn suggested that the threshold for sanctioning armed intervention by Britain would have to involve a conflict on the scale of the second world war. Asked if he was a pacifist, Corbyn said: “It is hard to define. I am person that has a very high threshold of saying I would not wish to be involved in armed conflict. The question always comes back to the second world war.”

In the Sky News hustings, Corbyn suggested the UN should approve any British military deployment as he explained how he had opposed the Nato campaign in Kosovo on the grounds that it lacked UN approval.

He said: “We should have stuck with the UN and given far more support to the UN. Surely we want to live in a world that is based on the rule of international law. The UN is quintessentially part of international law.”

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Originally posted by Alwyn:
I'd see a more cautious approach to military adventures like the invasion of Iraq as 'encouraging' rather than 'frightening'. YMMV.

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Originally posted by mark_in_manchester:
AFZ

I go to church with Sierra Leonians, who seem to regard UK intervention there as a good thing.

So what was it about SL and Kosovo which worked, whereas all those other cases didn't and don't? Perhaps another thread?

cheers
Mark

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Originally posted by alienfromzog:

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Originally posted by Alwyn:
I'd see a more cautious approach to military adventures like the invasion of Iraq as 'encouraging' rather than 'frightening'. YMMV.

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Ah Alwyn, I see where you're going wrong there: you're interested in facts.

You're forgetting that Corbyn is a threat to national security because he is.
You're forgetting that Corbyn is a threat to our economic security because he is.

Do you not see the power of the Prime Minister's argument there?

AFZ

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Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
That he chooses to do this by a continuation of Project Fear, rather than explain why he thinks the policies of the other parties are wrong or convince us Conservative policies are right is despicable. But, no different than most other leading politicians of recent time.

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Do you genuinely think he's no different?

I have significant bias in this and thus don't trust my own judgment at all but my perception is that Cameron is particularly poor in this regard. When challenged he gets snippy and he seems incapable of constructing an actual argument. To my mind he is notably worse than most other leading politicians of recent times. Accepting that I am biased. (I am one of the sad people who watches PMQs by choice so I know of what I speak... )

As a slight tangent - earlier this year one of anaesthetists I worked with was at Oxford with DC and a close personal friend. He told me that Cameron is genuinely very intelligent. I suspect he's much better placed to judge than I. I don't think that intelligence translates to wisdom (how often is that true?) and I think his inability to construct arguments or defences when challenged is not a sign of intelligence so I don't know how square that particular circle.

More to the point, I profoundly disagree with Cameron on policy and his ability to win elections by scaring rather than actually constructing an evidence-based argument is depressing but that's our democracy.

AFZ

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Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.
[Sen. D.P.Moynihan]

An Alien's View of Earth - my blog (or vanity exercise...)