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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Cities and diocese with more than one cathedral (of the same denomination)
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Augustine the Aleut:
It appears that our Diocese of Northern Michigan as well as the Diocese of North Dakota both had 4-0-4 cathedrals.
Truth, as always, is stranger than fiction, and in the world of cathedrals, reality once again trumps our fantasies.
![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif)
Not only that. They've all got clerestories, even the Baptist ones.
Incidentally, Wells, St Asaph, Brecon and St David's haven't got railway stations. St David's has never had one.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
Nor has Ripon. Though there is a campaign to bring back the railway (just as the cathedral has to share the honour with two others in the amalgamated diocese).
Southwell I think is another non-rail connected cathedral.
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
Indeed, and here is a short video of it. Rolleston (Junction) station is about 3 miles away and still open.
I'd like to see the Ripon line reopen, I think it would be viable economically and it would revitalise the town.
[ 09. January 2016, 19:45: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]
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Meet and Right So to Do
Apprentice
# 18532
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Augustine the Aleut:
This tangent and the OP do have an interesting conjuncture. S Paul's in Marquette surrendered its cathedral status in 1939 and a diocesan convention in 1954 selected Grace Church in Menominee to be the cathedral, but surrendered its status as well in 1976 as the disappearance of passenger rail travel made it inaccessible to most of the diocese and perhaps the most possibly remote parish from the others.
The diocesan history continues: quote:
"The places boiled down to one or two," wrote Bishop Page. "Neither Marquette or Sault Ste. Marie wanted the cathedral. Iron Mountain would have taken it to help out. Escanaba, also a logical place, seemingly knew nothing about it. This resulted from a mixup due to the illness of the rector. The result of the balloting was in favor of Menominee.
"Today this may seem a strange choice, but at that time the trains ran from Ishpeming to Chicago, from the Soo to Chicago and from Gladstone one could go to the west via Minneapolis and St. Paul. Also the air service from Menominee was in full swing."
The diocesan canons were redrafted to protect the rights and property of Grace Church -- rights St. Paul's in Marquette did not have when it gave up its Cathedral status in 1939. According to Page, having the cathedral in Menominee proved advantageous for the diocese for many years, until circumstances served to isolate Menominee somewhat more from the rest of the diocese.
While the newer model, with the bishop's cathedra effectively being behind the wheel of his car, has a theoretical attraction to it, the absence of even the most minimal base of operations might not have helped the diocese deliver on its mutual ministry model. While one is tempted to blame the Sponginess of its leanings for its troubles, a review of the diocesan history will also tell us of one bishop's imprisonment for embezzlement, a series of conventions where an elected candidate refused the mitre, and the death of another in a tragic accident, which was followed by a four-year vacancy-in-see after the zen bishop fiasco.
While the presence of classically-trained clergy is not a panacea-- John Holding delicately describes what I have also seen-- I wonder that, if in this case, an infrastructure-light diocesan centre with a patristically-learned teaching bishop might not have directed them toward addressing some of their problems. Spong is probably not the model of apostolic witness they need and there are other examples available (Thomas Wilson of Sodor and Man, or good old S Cyprian), but I wish them well in managing this.
Surely, with all of the spare cathedrals with which this thread deals, can one of them not be sent to the Upper Peninsula?
It hardly gave up the cathedral. The diocese went bankrupt due to an embezzlement and the parish at the cathedral didn't want the liability and basically threw the bishop out. You could say this diocese has been doomed to death for a long, long time. The loss of population after the last of the heavy industry and mining operations closed down by the 1930s really hurt it. The rest is history.
Posts: 32 | Registered: Jan 2016
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Spike
Mostly Harmless
# 36
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
Nor has Ripon. Though there is a campaign to bring back the railway (just as the cathedral has to share the honour with two others in the amalgamated diocese).
Southwell I think is another non-rail connected cathedral.
Don't I bloody know it. Back in the days when I relied on public transport I had the "interesting" experience of getting to both places. Southwell was the worst. Have you ever been in Newark bus station at 6pm on a Saturday?
[ 09. January 2016, 20:33: Message edited by: Spike ]
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"May you get to heaven before the devil knows you're dead" - Irish blessing
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
Indeed, and here is a short video of it. Rolleston (Junction) station is about 3 miles away and still open.
I'd like to see the Ripon line reopen, I think it would be viable economically and it would revitalise the town.
Millers Dale to Buxton had those, and also sometimes one of the LMS Lemon ones.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
[For those who haven't a clue what Enoch is going on about, let me explain that he is talking about the steam engine on the Southwell train. Similar locomotives were built towards the end of Ernest Lemon's brief tenure as Chief Mechanical Engineer on the erstwhile London, Midland and Scottish Railway. Miller's Dale to Buxton was a branch line in Derbyshire.
This doesn't have much to do with cathedrals, although it could be argued that some cities have or had more than one "cathedral to steam" (i.e. great station) belonging to different denominations (i.e. companies). Glasgow comes to mind, with Central (Caledonian), St. Enoch (Glasgow and South Western) and Queen Street (North British); and there is also Manchester with London Road (London & North Western) and Central (Midland). Of course Birmingham New Street was more ecumenical, with Midland and North Western sitting side by side; but the truest union was to be seen at Carlisle Citadel).
[ 09. January 2016, 22:08: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
P.S. Why did I let myself get so carried away? Sorry ![[Hot and Hormonal]](icon_redface.gif) .
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
...the truest union was to be seen at Carlisle Citadel...
Doubtless under the auspices of the Salvation Army.
And I see that the Caledonian Railway were involved. Was there some kind of ferrovial Columba Declaration?
[ 09. January 2016, 22:16: Message edited by: Albertus ]
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
You might well say so. The station was owned by the Lancaster & Carlisle (later the London & North Western) and Caledonian Railways. The other five railway companies operating into Carlisle were all tenants: the Midland, North Eastern, Maryport & Carlisle from England, the North British and Glasgow & South Western from Scotland.
The Salvation Army didn't exist when the station opened!
[ 10. January 2016, 07:19: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
P.S. Why did I let myself get so carried away? Sorry .
Please do. Even if undeniably a tangent it's much more interesting than the original question. And St Pancras not only has a patron saint, but looks like a cathedral.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
And Keleti station in Budapest even has statues of its patron saints in niches on the west frontage: George Stephenson and James Watt (neither of whom had anything to so with building it, AFAIK).
[ 10. January 2016, 07:49: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
IIRC, Sue Bridehead in Thomas Hardy's Jude the Obscure observes that the railway station in Melchester (I think - Hardy's name for Salisbury) is of rather more relevance than the cathedral.....
I.
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
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venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
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Posted
As it happens there was a verger from Los Angeles at church on Sunday. He was going on to Carlisle to spend a week as a locum.
He informed me the Anglican diocese of Los Angeles has two cathedrals.
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Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
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Lyda*Rose
Ship's broken porthole
# 4544
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Posted
The Episcopal Diocese of Los Angeles has a Cathedral Center of St. Paul with a smallish parish congregation (St. Athanasius), offices, meeting rooms, and a retreat center. Then for big, liturgical functions like large ordination groups, there is the procathedral of St. John.
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"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano
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Nick Tamen
Ship's Wayfaring Fool
# 15164
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
He informed me the Anglican diocese of Los Angeles has two cathedrals.
Episcopal dioceses with two cathedrals are necessary to balance the dioceses with no cathedral at all.
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The first thing God says to Moses is, "Take off your shoes." We are on holy ground. Hard to believe, but the truest thing I know. — Anne Lamott
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
You might well say so. The station was owned by the Lancaster & Carlisle (later the London & North Western) and Caledonian Railways. The other five railway companies operating into Carlisle were all tenants: the Midland, North Eastern, Maryport & Carlisle from England, the North British and Glasgow & South Western from Scotland.
The Salvation Army didn't exist when the station opened!
Amateurs.
Kansas City Union Station was served by 12 railroads and St. Louis Union Station by 22.
Who knew, a railway thread in Eccles! ![[Devil]](graemlins/devil.gif)
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venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
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Posted
The American verger did tell me that the original LA cathedral was barely larger than the church hall we were standing in at the time.
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Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sober Preacher's Kid:
Amateurs.
Kansas City Union Station was served by 12 railroads and St. Louis Union Station by 22.
Who knew, a railway thread in Eccles!
That's quite something. Did all 22 run trains every day? How near did they get to the station without having to use running powers?
Am I right that in North American parlance, a Union station is a joint one so as to encourage all the lines into a city should come to the same station? That's a concept that alas never caught on here. There were a few joint stations, but even quite small towns often had several stations, not always even connected.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
Sometimes quite definitely NOT connected - e.g. Victoria (Brighton line and South Eastern line) stations adjoined, but you had to go outside to get from one to the other. It was only post-Grouping that the Southern Railway made a hole in the wall to join the concourses and put in a running connection (and even that wasn't much used).
Ferro-ecumenism is clearly a modern concept!
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
Los Angeles' Union Station is very cathedral-like inside and out.
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
Well it would be if it were bigger ... although not all cathedrals are large, I admit.
But what about Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus in Mumbai? Both inside and outside it is very grand. Some of the details look very ecclesiastical - or like Machester Town Hall on Speed?
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
But what about Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus in Mumbai? Both inside and outside it is very grand. Some of the details look very ecclesiastical - or like Machester Town Hall on Speed?
I'm pretty sure I recall hearing that the British architect behind the imposing Bombay terminus was consciously attempting to replicate (perhaps up?) the grand design of St Pancras in London. I don't know if either was deliberately designed with the grandiosity of Cathedrals in mind, but it wouldn't be much of a surprise.
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arse
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
Well, don't know about VT, but given that St Pancras (hotel) is by George Gilbert Scott, I wouldn't be in the least surprised! (Tho' the story that he just used his unsuccessful design for the new Foreign Office buildings is I think a myth, isn't it?)
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My beard is a testament to my masculinity and virility, and demonstrates that I am a real man. Trouble is, bits of quiche sometimes get caught in it.
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Piglet
Islander
# 11803
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Augustine the Aleut:
... Saint Anne's is an interesting sort of cathedral, and is apparently shared between the Diocese of Connor and the Diocese of Down and Dromore.
When Belfast was given "city" status in the late 19th century, they decided they ought to have a cathedral. They built the present St. Anne's (I understand the dedication to St. Anne was because the wife of the landlord of the area was called Anne) round the old parish church, and demolished the old church inside it (which is why it's so long and high). It was dedicated in 1904.
It's not a "diocesan" cathedral; because half the city is in the Diocese of Connor and half in the Diocese of Down & Dromore, the respective Bishops both have thrones, but the Bishop of Connor has precedence because the Cathedral is situated in his diocese. His Diocesan cathedral is at Lisburn, and the Bishop of Down & Dromore has two Diocesan cathedrals, one at Downpatrick and the other at Dromore.
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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music
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David Goode
Shipmate
# 9224
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by georgiaboy:
I have been searching (so far unsuccessfully) for confirmation of this, but IIRC in the days before Christ Church, Cincinnati (Ohio, USA) was elevated to cathedral status, at least one of the bishops of Southern Ohio had a house trailer called 'Cathedral of the Open Road.'
(It's one of those things that SHOULD be true, even if it is NOT!) ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Reminds me a bit of our old Fenland Ark. Also some photos and maps.
[ 13. January 2016, 10:41: Message edited by: David Goode ]
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venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Piglet:
It's not a "diocesan" cathedral;
Which means to me that it's not a cathedral at all. I suppose it is an additional cathedral for two different diocese. (Is the plural of "diocese" - pron diosiss - "diocese" - pron diocease?)
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Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by David Goode:
Reminds me a bit of our old Fenland Ark. Also some photos and maps.
Nice. It looks like a waterborne version of the railway carriages linked to earlier in this thread.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
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Piglet
Islander
# 11803
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
... Is the plural of "diocese" - pron diosiss - "diocese" - pron diocease?)
No - the plural is, rather oddly, dioceses (pronounced "dio-seizes").
If you don't believe me, try the Oxford Dictionary.
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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music
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venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
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Posted
Thanks, piglet, that makes sense.
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Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
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Augustine the Aleut
Shipmate
# 1472
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
quote:
Originally posted by Piglet:
It's not a "diocesan" cathedral;
Which means to me that it's not a cathedral at all. I suppose it is an additional cathedral for two different diocese. (Is the plural of "diocese" - pron diosiss - "diocese" - pron diocease?)
I think we would all prefer the Cyprianic purity of one bishop, one city, one cathedral, one diocese, but sadly those days are behind us (Diocese of West Yorkshire and the Dales, anybody?).
Several French dioceses have a multiplicity of cathedrals owing to: a) the unification/ reconstitution of dioceses under Napoleon's concordat and the concordat of 1817, and b) J2P2's rejigging of French dioceses and provinces. The archdiocese of Albi, for example, also has a cathedral in Castres, and the archdiocese of Auch has extra cathedrals in Condom, Lectoure and Lombez. (Tangent alert: For extra confusion, these archbishoprics are only honorary, as they attach to the metropolis of Toulouse) As the extra dioceses were suppressed and theoretically no longer exist, you could argue that they are not diocesan cathedrals. The same sort of logic applies to a few CoI dioceses, where (e.g.) Ferns and Leighlin were united in 1597 but retain two cathedrals, then merged with Ossory, to be a diocese with three cathedrals and now united with Cashel, Waterford, and Lismore to be a diocese with six cathedrals-- this discussion was complicated as different conjunctions of dioceses continued as independent entities until 2013.
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georgiaboy
Shipmate
# 11294
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Posted
Reflecting on the 'floating Fenland' entity, in earlier years (19th cent?) the Seaman's Church Institute supported (floated?) one or more smallish ships outfitted as chapels in New York harbor. These were designed to minister to seamen on the various ships in the harbor and docks. How long these operated or how successful they were, I know not.
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You can't retire from a calling.
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Bibaculus
Shipmate
# 18528
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Augustine the Aleut:
quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
quote:
Originally posted by Piglet:
It's not a "diocesan" cathedral;
Which means to me that it's not a cathedral at all. I suppose it is an additional cathedral for two different diocese. (Is the plural of "diocese" - pron diosiss - "diocese" - pron diocease?)
I think we would all prefer the Cyprianic purity of one bishop, one city, one cathedral, one diocese, but sadly those days are behind us (Diocese of West Yorkshire and the Dales, anybody?).
Several French dioceses have a multiplicity of cathedrals owing to: a) the unification/ reconstitution of dioceses under Napoleon's concordat and the concordat of 1817, and b) J2P2's rejigging of French dioceses and provinces. The archdiocese of Albi, for example, also has a cathedral in Castres, and the archdiocese of Auch has extra cathedrals in Condom, Lectoure and Lombez. (Tangent alert: For extra confusion, these archbishoprics are only honorary, as they attach to the metropolis of Toulouse) As the extra dioceses were suppressed and theoretically no longer exist, you could argue that they are not diocesan cathedrals. The same sort of logic applies to a few CoI dioceses, where (e.g.) Ferns and Leighlin were united in 1597 but retain two cathedrals, then merged with Ossory, to be a diocese with three cathedrals and now united with Cashel, Waterford, and Lismore to be a diocese with six cathedrals-- this discussion was complicated as different conjunctions of dioceses continued as independent entities until 2013.
Also the case in Italy, eg the Archdiocese of Ravenna-Cervia, with co-cathedrals in each city. I suspect the merging of Italian dioceses, some very small, will continue.
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A jumped up pantry boy who never knew his place
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
(Clearly my post refers to the last-but-one before it).
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
Somebody has to say it. So there was once a Bishop of Condom. ![[Snigger]](graemlins/snigger.gif)
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
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Augustine the Aleut
Shipmate
# 1472
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
Somebody has to say it. So there was once a Bishop of Condom.
Indeed, and one of them was of the ancient ecclesiastical family of Montmorency-Laval who gave Canada its first bishop, Saint François of Québec.
It is on one of the major French pilgrimage routes to Santiago and I fear that I have seen more than one pilgrim flaunt their credencial with the stage-authentificating stamps from the cathedral, or the Mairie de Condom, or even the Musée de Condom. Enoch is not alone in enjoying this.
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
Ah, the Ville de Condom, which has chronic problems with English-speakers stealing its town signs.
This appeared in a newspaper interest article some time ago.
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NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.
Posts: 7646 | From: Peterborough, Upper Canada | Registered: Jun 2007
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venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
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Posted
Ripon maintains its chapter and choir and daily services, even though it only has a third of a claim in a bishop. It acts like a full C of E cathedral.
Is there any difference between French former cathedrals and their parish churches?
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Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
Posts: 3201 | From: An historic market town nestling in the folds of Surrey's rolling North Downs, | Registered: Sep 2011
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
Ripon maintains its chapter and choir and daily services, even though it only has a third of a claim in a bishop. It acts like a full C of E cathedral.
Is there any difference between French former cathedrals and their parish churches?
Yebbut. Ripon was a proper cathedral with a bishop until less than two years ago and thinks it ought to be still.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
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betjemaniac
Shipmate
# 17618
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by georgiaboy:
Reflecting on the 'floating Fenland' entity, in earlier years (19th cent?) the Seaman's Church Institute supported (floated?) one or more smallish ships outfitted as chapels in New York harbor. These were designed to minister to seamen on the various ships in the harbor and docks. How long these operated or how successful they were, I know not.
tangent off a tangent, HMS Invincible was my first ship in the RN and that had a proper chapel (dedicated to Our Lady of Furness as it had been built in Barrow) run by 2 CofE chaplains and an RC one.
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And is it true? For if it is....
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Augustine the Aleut
Shipmate
# 1472
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
Ripon maintains its chapter and choir and daily services, even though it only has a third of a claim in a bishop. It acts like a full C of E cathedral.
Is there any difference between French former cathedrals and their parish churches?
I'm not sure if French cathedrals are also parishes... they do retain their chapters. In Nantes, the cathedral is part of a group of city-centre churches with a united pastoral team, so traditional structures may have done some morphing for pastoral reasons.
Posts: 6236 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: Oct 2001
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Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Piglet:
No - the plural is, rather oddly, dioceses (pronounced "dio-seizes").
If you don't believe me, try the Oxford Dictionary.
Thank you, and again I thank you. I had thought this battle had been lost, but only in Episcopal circles here in the USA. Our RC friends seem to have no problem with it. DYE-oh-seize is singular (Episcopalians think it's both singular and plural, or they think the plural is DYE-uh-suss-ez, or they think the singular is DYE-uh-siss and the plural DYE-uh-seize).
So there's hope.
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Forthview
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# 12376
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Posted
In France cathedrals of dioceses which were suppressed in the early 1800s by various concordats are really parish churches. Once again parishes have often changed fairly recently covering wider areas than before.
The cathedral of St Vincent (de Saragosse) in St Malo is part of the archdiocese of Rennes.It is the only working church 'intra muros'( inside the walled city) but is part of a team of churches in other parts of St Malo,sharing clergy and structuring Mass times to suit,both clergy and laity.
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Augustine the Aleut
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# 1472
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Forthview:
In France cathedrals of dioceses which were suppressed in the early 1800s by various concordats are really parish churches. Once again parishes have often changed fairly recently covering wider areas than before.
The cathedral of St Vincent (de Saragosse) in St Malo is part of the archdiocese of Rennes.It is the only working church 'intra muros'( inside the walled city) but is part of a team of churches in other parts of St Malo,sharing clergy and structuring Mass times to suit,both clergy and laity.
Ditto in Tours, another city I know. Toulouse has a parish group (ensemble paroissiale) with the cathedral of S Stephen and three other churches-- no mention of a dean on the site, but there is a curé pastoral, five priests, and a deacon. Toulouse is united with two other dioceses, which retain their own cathedrals (Saint Bertrand de Comminges, also on the Camino to Santiago, and Rieux)-- the Toulouse Centre Deanery also has another two parishes, and a student parish. I could check on a few other cathedral sites but I would guess that the idea of a non-parochial cathedral no longer exists in France.
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Enoch
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# 14322
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Posted
Oblates, I think I can unequivocally say that the normal pronunciation in England is singular, dye-uh-siss, plural dye-uh-seize. I have heard dye-uh-seizes as a plural. I don't think I've ever heard dye-uh-seize as a singular.
I was so puzzled by the argument about 'erroneous' pronunciations that I checked Fowler, who says that until about 1800, the singular was spelt diocess.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
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Angloid
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# 159
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Augustine the Aleut:
quote:
Originally posted by Forthview:
In France cathedrals of dioceses which were suppressed in the early 1800s by various concordats are really parish churches. Once again parishes have often changed fairly recently covering wider areas than before.
The cathedral of St Vincent (de Saragosse) in St Malo is part of the archdiocese of Rennes.It is the only working church 'intra muros'( inside the walled city) but is part of a team of churches in other parts of St Malo,sharing clergy and structuring Mass times to suit,both clergy and laity.
Ditto in Tours, another city I know.
I can't be sure of these facts, but as far as I know Tours has a bishop (or even archbishop). But the cathedral is in a group with several other city parishes and there is a very sparse service schedule: one mass on a Sunday and maybe one during the week, or something like that. I got the impression that one (rather elderly. if he is the one I saw awaiting a wedding party) priest is responsible for the whole lot. The French church is in a bad way: a friend of mine lives in a village in Burgundy where there is a mass in the parish church once every three months if they are lucky.
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Forthview
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# 12376
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Posted
Looking at the website for Catholic worship in central Tours there are five Masses in three separate churches
St Pierre de Ville 18.30 Sat. and 10 on Sunday
(The 10.a.m Mass is described as 'rite Jean XXIII')
Cathedral is 11.00 and 18.30
Sacre-Coeur is at 10 a.m.
There is also a daily Mass at 19.00 in the chapelle St Michel.
Of course there are a good number of other churches in Tours,including the Basilique St Martin which has Mass every day at 11.a.m.
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