|
Source: (consider it)
|
Thread: Cities and diocese with more than one cathedral (of the same denomination)
|
venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
As one C of I clergyman told me, the RCs reckon Dublin has three cathedrals. One pro, and two amateurs.
(The C of I has two Dublin cathedrals - Christ Church and St Patrick's.)
This subject came up on another thread and was taking it over.
Any more examples?
--------------------
Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
Posts: 3201 | From: An historic market town nestling in the folds of Surrey's rolling North Downs, | Registered: Sep 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
Augustine the Aleut
Shipmate
# 1472
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
As one C of I clergyman told me, the RCs reckon Dublin has three cathedrals. One pro, and two amateurs.
(The C of I has two Dublin cathedrals - Christ Church and St Patrick's.)
This subject came up on another thread and was taking it over.
Any more examples?
RC Winnipeg has three: Saint Boniface is francophone and the metropolitan see, Winnipeg is an archbishopric (for the Irish), and there is also an archbishopric for the Ukrainian Catholics.
Posts: 6236 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: Oct 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Spike
Mostly Harmless
# 36
|
Posted
London has two Anglican cathedrals on opposite sides of the river - St Paul's and Southwark
[ 30. June 2015, 10:38: Message edited by: Spike ]
--------------------
"May you get to heaven before the devil knows you're dead" - Irish blessing
Posts: 12860 | From: The Valley of Crocuses | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
|
Posted
Are the Dioceses of Southwark and London the same denomination? ![[Biased]](wink.gif) (says Albertus, who will carry with him to the grave just a tinge of South Bank religion)
--------------------
My beard is a testament to my masculinity and virility, and demonstrates that I am a real man. Trouble is, bits of quiche sometimes get caught in it.
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
Arethosemyfeet
Shipmate
# 17047
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by kingsfold:
The Scottish Episcopal Diocese of Argyll and the Isles has two cathedrals, though not in the same conurbation: St John's Cathedral in Oban and the Cathedral of the Isles in Millport, Isle of Cumbrae.
Same conurbation? They're not even on the same island! ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Posts: 2933 | From: Hebrides | Registered: Apr 2012
| IP: Logged
|
|
kingsfold
Shipmate
# 1726
|
Posted
True dat.
But does Millport count as a town?
Posts: 4473 | From: land of the wee midgie | Registered: Nov 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Forthview
Shipmate
# 12376
|
Posted
Otban is for Argyll and Millport is for the Isles.
Another city with two cathedrals is Danzig/Gdansk.
In the wake of WW1 an new 'exempt 'diocese of Danzig was created with its first bishop Graf Eduard O'Rourke. The cathedral was in the suburb of Oliwa in a splendid basilica.
Since WW2 and the city becoming Polish the main church Gross St Marien at that time Lutheran became the new Catholic co-cathedral with Oliwa.
Posts: 3444 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
Melangell
Shipmate
# 4023
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
Are the Dioceses of Southwark and London the same denomination? (says Albertus, who will carry with him to the grave just a tinge of South Bank religion)
I think you're teasing us, Albertus, but just to clarify for others: St Paul's is the Cathedral of the Anglican Diocese of London; St Saviour and St Mary Overie is the Cathedral of the Anglican Diocese of Southwark.
Tangent/ the Dean of Southwark believes he is the only dean in England whose deanery has a splendid view of another cathedral (i.e. across the Thames to St Paul's), but no view of his own cathedral / end tangent
--------------------
Gwnewch y pethau bychein (Dewi Sant)
Do the little things (Saint David)
Posts: 367 | From: A bit of Wales in Surrey | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Forthview
Shipmate
# 12376
|
Posted
Millport most certainly is a town.(It might even count as a 'city'! )
Posts: 3444 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
leo
Shipmate
# 1458
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Melangell:
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
Are the Dioceses of Southwark and London the same denomination? (says Albertus, who will carry with him to the grave just a tinge of South Bank religion)
I think you're teasing us, Albertus, but just to clarify for others: St Paul's is the Cathedral of the Anglican Diocese of London; St Saviour and St Mary Overie is the Cathedral of the Anglican Diocese of Southwark.
But there is also a RC Cathedral of Southwark
--------------------
My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com
Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
|
Posted
Two points about Southwark.
One
St Paul’s is the only cathedral in the City of London. Southwark is in the London Borough of Southwark. Up to 2000 and the creation of the Greater London Authority, the two cathedrals were not even in the same local authority area.
Two
I moved to Southwark from London. In my London parish, although we had clouds of incense and the Angelus, we were achingly right on. Priest wearing a white poppy on Remembrance Sunday for the Peace Union. No “In the name of the Father” to start as gender specific. Special Sunday to mark the Environment.
In my Southwark parish we have a Civic service with the mayor in place of the Sunday eucharist and a Masonic Lodge for the church.
--------------------
Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
Posts: 3201 | From: An historic market town nestling in the folds of Surrey's rolling North Downs, | Registered: Sep 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
|
Posted
You have "the mayor in place of the Sunday eucharist". How is that done, may I ask?
(Only kidding - I know what you mean really!)
[ 30. June 2015, 15:38: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
|
Posted
They ate the mayor's body and blood? ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
Tho' I guess, venbede, from your tagline that unless it is an ironic reference to Croydon you may be from what people in the more urban end of Southwark diocese sometimes rudely used to call the 'White Highlands'*.
*For those not familiar with Southwark: the southern end outside Greater London, so called because it's hilly and there are comparatively few black people there.
--------------------
My beard is a testament to my masculinity and virility, and demonstrates that I am a real man. Trouble is, bits of quiche sometimes get caught in it.
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Melangell
Shipmate
# 4023
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leo: But there is also a RC Cathedral of Southwark
Quite so: but the RC Cathedral is dedicated to St George. The two Southwark cathedrals have good ecumenical relations...
Edit: UBB attempt
[ 03. July 2015, 05:00: Message edited by: Zappa ]
--------------------
Gwnewch y pethau bychein (Dewi Sant)
Do the little things (Saint David)
Posts: 367 | From: A bit of Wales in Surrey | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
a Civic service (with the mayor) in place of the Sunday eucharist
punctuation for clarification.
If you count all greater London together, there are two RC cathedrals, St George's Southwark and Westminster Cathedral.
I was really meaning two cathedrals in one diocese.
What about St Anne's Belfast? There isn't a Bishop of Belfast. Is it a co-cathedral of the Diocese of Armagh?
--------------------
Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
Posts: 3201 | From: An historic market town nestling in the folds of Surrey's rolling North Downs, | Registered: Sep 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
kingsfold
Shipmate
# 1726
|
Posted
Again, not one city, but presumably the new Yorkshire über-diocese (is it West Yorkshire and the Dales?) has three cathedrals post amalgamation of Bradford, Wakefield and Ripon & Leeds.
--------------------
I came to Jesus and I found in him my star, my sun.
And in that light of life I'll walk 'til travelling days are done
Posts: 4473 | From: land of the wee midgie | Registered: Nov 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Knopwood
Shipmate
# 11596
|
Posted
I mentioned New Westminster in the other thread, which was the seat of the diocese bearing its name until 1929. The old Cathedral is now a parish church but still bears the title, along with Christ Church Cathedral in Vancouver.
Toronto's St Alban the Martyr, the remnant of Archbishop Sweatman's abortive project of an extra-parochial cathedral, is now the chapel of Royal St George's College (which served as the choir school of St James' Cathedral until the abolition of the Gentlemen and Boys).
[ 30. June 2015, 17:20: Message edited by: Knopwood ]
Posts: 6806 | From: Tio'tia:ke | Registered: Jun 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Augustine the Aleut
Shipmate
# 1472
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
a Civic service (with the mayor) in place of the Sunday eucharist
punctuation for clarification.
If you count all greater London together, there are two RC cathedrals, St George's Southwark and Westminster Cathedral.
I was really meaning two cathedrals in one diocese.
What about St Anne's Belfast? There isn't a Bishop of Belfast. Is it a co-cathedral of the Diocese of Armagh?
Saint Anne's is an interesting sort of cathedral, and is apparently shared between the Diocese of Connor and the Diocese of Down and Dromore.
Posts: 6236 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: Oct 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Spike
Mostly Harmless
# 36
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
Up to 2000 and the creation of the Greater London Authority, the two cathedrals were not even in the same local authority area
Well, in the 14 years between Thatcher abolishing the GLC and the GLA being created that was the case.
--------------------
"May you get to heaven before the devil knows you're dead" - Irish blessing
Posts: 12860 | From: The Valley of Crocuses | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
|
Posted
Aberdeen has three. It was hard work visiting them all on our one day in the city, as we left our car on the seafront and walked from one to the other via the University, Art Gallery and the Maritime Museum. My favourite was this one, in the old town.
--------------------
Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
|
Posted
Ah, just seen that you wanted 'of the same denomination'. Oh well. Guess you'll have to make do with Ripon, Leeds, Wakefield then. That's a tale and a half on its own....
--------------------
Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Spike
Mostly Harmless
# 36
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Chorister:
Ah, just seen that you wanted 'of the same denomination'. Oh well. Guess you'll have to make do with Ripon, Leeds, Wakefield then. That's a tale and a half on its own....
Surely you mean Ripon, Wakefield and Bradford. Oddly, Leeds doesn't have an Anglican cathedral despite the diocesan bishop being the Bishop of Leeds.
--------------------
"May you get to heaven before the devil knows you're dead" - Irish blessing
Posts: 12860 | From: The Valley of Crocuses | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Spike:
quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
Up to 2000 and the creation of the Greater London Authority, the two cathedrals were not even in the same local authority area
Well, in the 14 years between Thatcher abolishing the GLC and the GLA being created that was the case.
If you want to get picky, I'm not sure they are in the same LA area even now: the GLA is a devolved body rather than a local government one.
But mention of St Anne's Belfast gives us a variant on this thread's theme- are there also other examples of a cathedral being shared by more than one diocese- of the same denomination or even of separate denominations?
--------------------
My beard is a testament to my masculinity and virility, and demonstrates that I am a real man. Trouble is, bits of quiche sometimes get caught in it.
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
georgiaboy
Shipmate
# 11294
|
Posted
A slightly different approach here in the Upper South of the USA:
The first cathedral of the RC church 'west of the mountains' was Saint Joseph's in Bardstown, KY, which in those early days was a thriving market and trading sort of place. An imposing red brick building arose, and was eventually adorned with a series of large oil paintings, given them by King Louis Phillippe (who had spent part of his exile there).
Some years passed and Louisville (on the Ohio River) had become the larger and more important city. The bishop moved his 'chair' and his etceteras there and named a new cathedral, Cathedral of the Assumption.
However, Saint Joseph's was given the title of 'Proto-cathedral,' a term I've not seen used elsewhere. In my childhood, I thought it had some reference to 'protestant,' which would have upset them greatly!
--------------------
You can't retire from a calling.
Posts: 1675 | From: saint meinrad, IN | Registered: Apr 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
|
Posted
What is the difference between a pro and a co?
I thought a pro cathedral is one that you have until you get a proper one.
The Anglican diocese of Europe has a three cathedrals - the main one at Brussels and two pro cathedrals at Valetta and Gibraltar, although there's no intention to replace them.
The RC diocese of Malta has two joint cathedrals, ie at Valetta and one at the old town in the middle of the island. They are both co cathedrals.
--------------------
Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
Posts: 3201 | From: An historic market town nestling in the folds of Surrey's rolling North Downs, | Registered: Sep 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
The Anglican diocese of Europe has a three cathedrals - the main one at Brussels and two pro cathedrals at Valetta and Gibraltar, although there's no intention to replace them.
I think this is wrong - the Cathedral in in Gibraltar, Brussels is the pro. But to confuse things, the bishop actually resides in Brussels.
--------------------
arse
Posts: 10697 | Registered: Sep 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
|
Posted
Looked up Diocese of Europe's webpage. You're right. In main cathedral is at Gibraltar. But why are the other two pros and not cos or joints?
--------------------
Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
Posts: 3201 | From: An historic market town nestling in the folds of Surrey's rolling North Downs, | Registered: Sep 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
They ate
Tho' I guess, venbede, from your tagline that unless it is an ironic reference to Croydon
It is indeed a reference to Croydon, which is both totally accurate and completely misleading.
--------------------
Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
Posts: 3201 | From: An historic market town nestling in the folds of Surrey's rolling North Downs, | Registered: Sep 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
Augustine the Aleut
Shipmate
# 1472
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
Looked up Diocese of Europe's webpage. You're right. In main cathedral is at Gibraltar. But why are the other two pros and not cos or joints?
My guess is that, at one point, they thought of having a diocese based on Malta, and that this was a first step. The pro-cathedral of Brussells, of course, was for the in-Europe base of the Diocese of London's jurisdiction and perhaps there was a reluctance to have a formal established presence on the territory of an existing diocese (Malines of 1559) even if it happened to be out of communion with Canterbury.
Posts: 6236 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: Oct 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Ecclesiastical Flip-flop
Shipmate
# 10745
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Augustine the Aleut:
quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
Looked up Diocese of Europe's webpage. You're right. In main cathedral is at Gibraltar. But why are the other two pros and not cos or joints?
My guess is that, at one point, they thought of having a diocese based on Malta, and that this was a first step. The pro-cathedral of Brussells, of course, was for the in-Europe base of the Diocese of London's jurisdiction and perhaps there was a reluctance to have a formal established presence on the territory of an existing diocese (Malines of 1559) even if it happened to be out of communion with Canterbury.
I recently said something about this on another thread. The (Anglican) Diocese of Europe is unusual in that it covers a geographically very large area, but in terms of pockets of Anglican adherents, it is a thinly populated diocese, with scattered congregations (not all of them small ones) established here and there in in different parts of Europe.
In view of this, it would not make sense to have just ONE cathedral for the whole Diocese of Europe, for it would be a long way for those on the furthest outreaches to travel to get to a diocesan event at just one cathedral.
I hope you see what I am getting at and that this answers your question.
--------------------
Joyeuses Pâques! Frohe Ostern! Buona Pasqua! ¡Felices Pascuas! Happy Easter!
Posts: 1946 | From: Surrey UK | Registered: Dec 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
Aggie
Ship's cat
# 4385
|
Posted
The city of Zaragoza in north-eastern Spain has 2 cathedrals La Seo and the Basilica of Our Lady of the Pillar, and both are situated in the city's main square.
--------------------
“I see his blood upon the rose
And in the stars the glory of his eyes,
His body gleams amid eternal snows,
His tears fall from the skies.”
(Joseph Mary Plunkett 1887-1917)
Posts: 581 | From: A crazy, crazy world | Registered: Apr 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
georgiaboy
Shipmate
# 11294
|
Posted
Another case of a cathedral with two cathedra:
The Washington National Cathedral (formally The Cathedral of Saints Peter and Paul) has a cathedra for the Bishop of Washington, and another for the Presiding Bishop of TEC, in which the newly elected PB will be formally seated on All Saints Day.
--------------------
You can't retire from a calling.
Posts: 1675 | From: saint meinrad, IN | Registered: Apr 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
BulldogSacristan
Shipmate
# 11239
|
Posted
I know this is a little pedantic, but if there's a place for pedantry this is it, right?
Isn't there really only one proper cathedra at the National Cathedral? And that is the Bishop of Washington's Cathedra, the Glastonbury Cathedra? Isn't the seat set aside for the Presiding bishop simply a stall for her in the choir? Since she's not a diocesan or metropolitan bishop with ordinary jurisdiction, I'm not sure the symbolism of an actual cathedra would be quite right.
Posts: 197 | From: Boston, Massachusetts | Registered: Apr 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
churchgeek
Have candles, will pray
# 5557
|
Posted
As a US Episcopalian, this is all very confusing to me! (Even the bit about my denomination's National Cathedral.)
How can one diocese have two cathedrals? Does that usually result from a merger of two dioceses?
--------------------
I reserve the right to change my mind.
My article on the Virgin of Vladimir
Posts: 7773 | From: Detroit | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by churchgeek:
How can one diocese have two cathedrals? Does that usually result from a merger of two dioceses?
The Episcopal Diocese of Minnesota has one in Minneapolis and one in Faribault.
![[Confused]](confused.gif)
--------------------
"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Kyzyl
Ship's dog
# 374
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:
quote:
Originally posted by churchgeek:
How can one diocese have two cathedrals? Does that usually result from a merger of two dioceses?
The Episcopal Diocese of Minnesota has one in Minneapolis and one in Faribault.
Yes, we do. The one in Faribault was built when St. Paul was still Hogtown and not expected to amount to much. Faribault was the up and coming city. Things worked out differently, but the church in Faribault remained a co-cathedral when the bish's offices moved north.
--------------------
I need a quote.
Posts: 668 | From: Wapasha's Prairie | Registered: Jun 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Augustine the Aleut
Shipmate
# 1472
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by BulldogSacristan:
I know this is a little pedantic, but if there's a place for pedantry this is it, right?
Isn't there really only one proper cathedra at the National Cathedral? And that is the Bishop of Washington's Cathedra, the Glastonbury Cathedra? Isn't the seat set aside for the Presiding bishop simply a stall for her in the choir? Since she's not a diocesan or metropolitan bishop with ordinary jurisdiction, I'm not sure the symbolism of an actual cathedra would be quite right.
BullDog points out one of the original objections to the PB not being a diocesan bishop-- bishops are not a rank as are generals, but are rather an order of clergy serving a particular role in a local church. No diocese=no cathedra=no teaching authority=illogically a bishop. The argument was also raised when the Canadian primacy went non-diocesan (with the same result).
A possible exception might be a cathedra for the bishop of a non-territorial diocese or jurisdiction such as (in Canada) the Military Ordinariate or the jurisdiction of the National Aboriginal Bishop.
Two or more cathedrals in a diocese can come from all sorts of situations, from dioceses being united, or sees being moved, or a desire to honour a particular city or church. But it is a phenomenon which leans away from the Cyprianic doctrinal image of a bishop at the main altar of his diocese, exercising his teaching authority.
Posts: 6236 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: Oct 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815
|
Posted
Up to a point I agree. A rector I know says that he's the Archbishop's deputy, while the Regional Bishop is simply the Abp's curate. That takes us back to the earliest days of the growing church.
I'm not so sure about the bishops you cite. The Anglican Bishop to the Armed Forces has the members of those forces as a diocese, just not a territorial one. As yet, there's no national bishop to our ancient peoples; the first aboriginal bishop has recently been appointed in Adelaide to minister to them, just as Regional Bishops have the care of part of a diocese.
It sounds odd to me that neither the PB nor the Canadian Primate retains their diocese - that's what happens here, with an Anglican Church of approximately the same size - perhaps even larger.
--------------------
Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
Posts: 7028 | From: Warrawee NSW Australia | Registered: Jun 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Augustine the Aleut
Shipmate
# 1472
|
Posted
The Canadian military ordinariate is, as you suggest, a personal diocese. The National Indigenous Bishop has a sort-of-not-jurisdiction, in that First People's parishes are just part of their local territorial diocese, but that he has a pastoral responsibility toward them; as well, he ordains clergy for them working with diocesan bishops. It is an absolute canonical and ecclesiological mess, but Bishop Macdonald seems to be able to make it work (he also survived an attempt by PB Jefferts Schori to depose him from the episcopacy as they couldn't quite figure out how to deal with a bishop moving from TEC, where he had been Bishop of Alaska, to the ACC).
Posts: 6236 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: Oct 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
John Holding
Coffee and Cognac
# 158
|
Posted
Further to what Augustine has said, the Canadian Primate ceased being a diocesan after a particularly difficult period. Four of the first seven Primates were from the same diocese - Rupertsland -- based in WInnipeg, a three-day drive from Toronto where the Anglican CHurch of Canada is based. In the 1960s, before air travel became relatively cheap and easy, the PRimate was a wonderful man, Howard Clark, who suffered bitterly with arthritis in his back. Several sessions with the Primate immovable in his bed in WInnipeg and the committees etc sitting useless in Toronto convinced the church, I think, to let the Primate leave his diocese and be based in TOronto, where the bulk of his work was.
At that time as well, it was unusual for there to be a suffragan. Rupertsland gave +++Clark one that it really couldn't afford, whose vision of his office was a lot less than it should have been. (Interestingly, John Red River as he was known was part Cree, though I'm not sure which side of the blanket that was from, so he was in a sense our first aboriginal bishop. At the time, though, this was not spoken of.)
John
Posts: 5929 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Spike
Mostly Harmless
# 36
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by churchgeek:
How can one diocese have two cathedrals? Does that usually result from a merger of two dioceses?
That's pretty much it. For instance, here in England, the three dioceses of Ripon & Leeds, Wakefield and Bradford merged to create a new "super diocese" of West Yorkshire and The Dales. AFAIK the three cathedrals retained their status.
--------------------
"May you get to heaven before the devil knows you're dead" - Irish blessing
Posts: 12860 | From: The Valley of Crocuses | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Arethosemyfeet
Shipmate
# 17047
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by churchgeek:
How can one diocese have two cathedrals? Does that usually result from a merger of two dioceses?
Sort of. The Diocese of Argyll and the Diocese of the Isles (or Sodor; as a Thomas the Tank Engine fan I do like that I live in Sodor) both had Cathedrals in the mediaeval period (Lismore and Iona/Skye respectively) but the modern Cathedrals date from after the merger and neither is in the same location.
Posts: 2933 | From: Hebrides | Registered: Apr 2012
| IP: Logged
|
|
Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Augustine the Aleut:
... he also survived an attempt by PB Jefferts Schori to depose him from the episcopacy as they couldn't quite figure out how to deal with a bishop moving from TEC, where he had been Bishop of Alaska, to the ACC ...
Tangent alert
Could you explain that please. If ACC stands for Anglican Church of Canada, it sounds shocking.
Is that an attempt by one primate to meddle in the affairs of another Province, or a claim that as a primate one is entitled to tell one's diocesans not to change jobs?
--------------------
Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Augustine the Aleut
Shipmate
# 1472
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
quote:
Originally posted by Augustine the Aleut:
... he also survived an attempt by PB Jefferts Schori to depose him from the episcopacy as they couldn't quite figure out how to deal with a bishop moving from TEC, where he had been Bishop of Alaska, to the ACC ...
Tangent alert
Could you explain that please. If ACC stands for Anglican Church of Canada, it sounds shocking.
Is that an attempt by one primate to meddle in the affairs of another Province, or a claim that as a primate one is entitled to tell one's diocesans not to change jobs?
It appears to have been a canonical cockup as either the PB or someone in her office could not figure out how bishops transferred from one province to another. It puzzled many of us at the time, but was straightened out with a few telephone calls and some paperwork. As it was at a period of some TEC bishops trying to transfer themselves to the Southern Cone or Rwanda, TEC staff likely totally misunderstood what was going on (one unkind observer at the time said that Rwanda and Canada are easily confused, especially in February).
[ 08. July 2015, 11:36: Message edited by: Augustine the Aleut ]
Posts: 6236 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: Oct 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
|
Posted
Well I suppose they're both places where some people are benighted enough to speak French.
--------------------
Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Spike:
quote:
Originally posted by Chorister:
Ah, just seen that you wanted 'of the same denomination'. Oh well. Guess you'll have to make do with Ripon, Leeds, Wakefield then. That's a tale and a half on its own....
Surely you mean Ripon, Wakefield and Bradford. Oddly, Leeds doesn't have an Anglican cathedral despite the diocesan bishop being the Bishop of Leeds.
Leeds does not have a Cathedral because prior to the merger it was part of the Diocese of Leeds and Ripon. Due to historic reason Ripon has long had a Cathedral so there was no need for one in Leeds. For those who are unaware of history, Leeds was a relatively minor town, I think*, until 18th Century and the industrial revolution. Wakefield was larger.
Jengie
*I am recalling information taught me when I was junior school age.
--------------------
"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
Back to my blog
Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
georgiaboy
Shipmate
# 11294
|
Posted
Just a couple of TEC / Washington Cathedral clarifications:
1) There is a proper throne for the PB, directly opposite that of the Bp of Washington (or at least there was the last time I looked!) There are also 'places in choir' for both of them.
2) Originally in TEC there was some scrambling around as to how the PB should be chosen, within a few years it became a matter of seniority by date of consecration, and that Bp did not relinquish his diocese. This changed to election in the 1940s IIRC.
It was proposed at the recent General Convention that the Bp elected as PB should retain his/her diocese, but this proposal did not receive approval. (I think I got all that right!)
--------------------
You can't retire from a calling.
Posts: 1675 | From: saint meinrad, IN | Registered: Apr 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
|
Posted
So whose cathedra is in that other National Cathedral, St Patrick's, Dublin?
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Printer-friendly view
