Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Purgatory: What is the way of salvation?
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Jim Powell
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# 323
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Posted
A---is it faith alone in Christ?
B---is it faith plus works?
C---is it a system of works?
If those who find it necessary to discredit by Pastor and Church will cease their crusade I will be grateful..
Please give simple and short answers answers Many thanks Jim powell ![[Cool]](cool.gif) [ 10. March 2003, 02:15: Message edited by: Erin ]
-------------------- After being judged for our sins,Our Lord said"It is finished" (The work of our salvation)
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Will
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# 356
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Posted
Faith in G-d (which results in a natural outpouring of works).
-------------------- Shalom, Will.
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Freddy
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# 365
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Jim Powell: A---is it faith alone in Christ?B---is it faith plus works? C---is it a system of works?
How about none of the above. Jesus said, "If thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments" (Matthew 19:17). Someone doing works, or a system of works, might be doing them hypocritically. But keeping the commandments in your heart allows God to work within you so that you are spiritually reborn. The exhortations to have faith imply that if you believe in God you will do as He commands. Otherwise you are foolish, as Jesus said. You need to be purified so that you are fit for heaven, as it says in the purgatory heading. It takes a while, and it is not easy - but it is God who does it, not you. That is how I see the Bible message.
-------------------- "Consequently nothing is of greater importance to a person than knowing what the truth is." Swedenborg
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rewboss
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# 566
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Freddy: Jesus said, "If thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments" (Matthew 19:17).
But if you read the rest of the story, you'll find that that was simply not enough. quote: Someone doing works, or a system of works, might be doing them hypocritically. But keeping the commandments in your heart allows God to work within you so that you are spiritually reborn.
I think you might have to "unpack" that a little. What do you mean when you say "keep the commandments in your heart"?I think the idea of purification was picked up by the Israelites from Zoastrianism (oh boy, more syncretism). How do you purify metal? You stick it in a fire, and all the impurities are burned away. If the metal is especially impure, you might be left with very little at all. So it might be (said the Babylonians) with the soul: on death, you pass through a purifying fire. What's left goes to heaven. If you're completely impure, none of you will make it. Sorry, I'm rambling... Jesus said that the two commandments which are most important are: Love God with all your heart etc etc; and Love your neighbour as yourself. Seeing as Christians are encouraged to see God in other people, I take that to be two sides of the same commandment: if you love God, you can't hate your neighbour; and vice versa. And if you truly love God, this will be reflected in your life for all to see. So how about: "True love for God of the sort which leads to works." Faith leads to action. Works, when done not for one's own gain and/or recognition but for the true benefit of others, might be considered love for God -- even if the individual concerned might not think so.
-------------------- The latest from the world of rewboss
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Manx Taffy
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# 301
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Jim Powell: A---is it faith alone in Christ?B---is it faith plus works? C---is it a system of works? :
To me it is rather wrapped-up with the question of what is salvation. I don't think it is about 'getting to heaven' or avoiding 'hell' which all seems rather medieval.I view salvation as more about being brought into 'eternal life' which starts now. The fruits of eternal life are growth in a relation with God, good works and hopefully strengthening faith. As is said at the administration of the eucharist at many (Anglican) churches - may the body of Christ KEEP you in eternal life - not get you into heaven. I struggle with the 'faith alone' idea of salvation as it opposes the idea that I share with some others on this board that there is 'salvation' for others than only those that have faith in Christ. Though I can believe that no body is saved except through Christ - even if they personally do not have faith in him here and now.
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Steve_R
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# 61
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Posted
I'll go along with Angel
-------------------- Love and Kisses, Steve_R
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Tubbs
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# 440
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Grace. Christ said the two great commandments were to “love the Lord your God with all your heart and mind” and “to love your neighbour as yourself”.
If you love God with your Heart then you’ll be open to him working within you to change you and make you more like Him. If you love God with your Mind then you’ll have a faith that is capable of engaging with others and listening and learning from them. If you love your neighbour as yourself there will be a visible difference in your attitudes to others, the environment, the poor etc. To me, you need all three but it’s a long process – sometimes painful and sometimes fun – but always worth it. The Christian that I am now is different to the one I was when I got saved is different to the one I will be in the future. Jim, you haven’t said what you think. – A or B or C or what?! Tubbs
-------------------- "It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it up and remove all doubt" - Dennis Thatcher. My blog. Decide for yourself which I am
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Jim Powell
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# 323
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Posted
Tubbs, I will allow all who wish to reply do so then I will comment. All the best Jim.
-------------------- After being judged for our sins,Our Lord said"It is finished" (The work of our salvation)
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Kelly
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# 577
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Posted
I agree with the posters who stated that salvation is grace. But; everything God does is gracious, so a more specific answer is needed (I feel).Eph. 2:8&9 declares that we are saved by our faith & not works. John 3:15 states that if a person simply believes in Jesus Christ, they are saved. John 6:47 declares that belief in Jesus Christ is all that is required for eternal life. Good works are a bye-product of slavation, not a requirement. Faith in Jesus Christ is the only requirement for salvation.
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dyfrig
Blue Scarfed Menace
# 15
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Of course, the one time when Jesus was actually asked this question, he replied, "Sell everything you have and go and give it to the poor". Hmm....
-------------------- "He was wrong in the long run, but then, who isn't?" - Tony Judt
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Jim Powell
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# 323
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Posted
Kelly. I delight in your salvation!!!!!!Its a thrill to hear the truth All the best Jim Powell
-------------------- After being judged for our sins,Our Lord said"It is finished" (The work of our salvation)
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
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# 76
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Posted
But the rest of us are all wrong, eh Jim?
-------------------- Might as well ask the bloody cat.
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Jim Powell
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# 323
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Posted
Karl. I will give a full answer in a day or two. All the best Jim Powell. ![](cool.gif)
-------------------- After being judged for our sins,Our Lord said"It is finished" (The work of our salvation)
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Jim Powell
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# 323
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Posted
Erin. You dont mind if I allow people a little time to give their answers do you. I will respond shortly. All the best Jim.
-------------------- After being judged for our sins,Our Lord said"It is finished" (The work of our salvation)
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Charles
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# 357
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Posted
This question has been asked so often by Jim and others on this web site and on the Church Net that it seems somewhat superfluous to be asking it again. Faith is essential for salvation but faith without works is dead (James). Matthew 25 verses 31 to 46 is most specific. In so far as you neglected to do this to one of the least of these, you neglected to do it to me. And they will go away to eternal punishment, and the virtuous to eternal life. Charles
-------------------- Charles
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Kelly
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# 577
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Posted
The 10 commandments & the Jewish law were given to the Hebrews for various benefits & reasons. For correction, society, government ect. But they were also a litmus test to help the Jews gauge their own righteousness. I pose the question ...who has kept all the commandments perfectly? Noone has, only Jesus Christ has done this. The Bible states that all have sinned & fallen short of the glory of God.When the rich young ruler asked Jesus what he could do to obtain eternal life, Jesus basically told him to be perfect & sinless. The rich man & people today misconstrue this statement into thinking they can go about setting their own righteousness by lying to themselves into thinking they can actually do this. The rich ruler wasn't in the repentant frame of mind when he confronted Jesus, the rich ruler was seeking something that he alone could do to gain acceptance from God. The rich ruler needed to change his mind & realize he was helpless & needed a redeemer. Since noone can keep the commandments perfectly, we have to rely (trust) in the One who did accomplish this, Jesus Christ. By trusting in Christ, we swap our righteousness (which is unacceptable to God) for Christ's righteousness. The book of James was written to the 12 scattered tribes of Israel. There were many new Christians among these tribes. James was encouraging these disillusioned, new Christians to be happy to be 'tested' in their new faith. Many of the new Christians had become disheartened in their new faith because of their failure to pass the tests and as a result their faith was 'dead'. These 'dead faith' Christians weren't 'lost' because their faith was now dead. They were just confused & scared and falling for all sorts of false doctrines. James was simply telling the Christian Jews to pass their tests of faith, thus there faith would grow and their faith would in turn be made perfect. They would then be fruitful Christians and be able to be used of the Lord. All Christians face this test everday of their lives. Will we pass the faith tests or not? That is the question.
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Jim Powell
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# 323
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Posted
Tubbs,Phil,Angel,Oilinlamp,Steve,Karl,Stevetom. You all said grace which is true,but this grace is accepted by faith alone in Christ alone. The book of James was written to the brethern therefore does not talk of salvation ,but the believers way of life. Calling Jesus lord is not the way of salvation,religious people do this,and are not saved(if they have not just believed in Christ's completed work of the cross. All the best Jim. ![](smile.gif)
-------------------- After being judged for our sins,Our Lord said"It is finished" (The work of our salvation)
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Jim Powell
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# 323
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Posted
Splodge,Nicol. By grace through faith A All the best Jim.
-------------------- After being judged for our sins,Our Lord said"It is finished" (The work of our salvation)
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Jim Powell
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# 323
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Posted
Freddy,Rewboss. Obey the commandment of faith in Christ 1John;3:23 Imputed righteousness for all those who believe,now we are able in the power of the spirit know and love God. All the best Jim.
-------------------- After being judged for our sins,Our Lord said"It is finished" (The work of our salvation)
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Jim Powell
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# 323
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Posted
Manx Taffy. We can believe in Christ for salvation up to our death ,after that its to late. All the best Jim. ![](frown.gif)
-------------------- After being judged for our sins,Our Lord said"It is finished" (The work of our salvation)
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Jim Powell
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# 323
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Posted
Alan Cresswell, Agreed,and God is fair and just al those who do not reach accountability go to heaven. All the best Jim. ![](biggrin.gif)
-------------------- After being judged for our sins,Our Lord said"It is finished" (The work of our salvation)
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Jim Powell
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# 323
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Posted
Wibblethorpe. Repent means to change ones mind about Christ and believe in him,hopefully deeds will follow. All the best Jim. ![](rolleyes.gif)
-------------------- After being judged for our sins,Our Lord said"It is finished" (The work of our salvation)
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