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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Eccles: On the Naming of Churches
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Kaplan Corday
Shipmate
# 16119
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Posted
And in the same tradition, a number of Brethren churches have been designated (unofficially) as Adullam.
Posts: 3355 | Registered: Jan 2011
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Zappa
Ship's Wake
# 8433
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jengie Jon:
quote:
Originally posted by Zappa:
Slowly a sort of puritan counter-objection to the notion of a "saint" emerges, so we get Suburb Baptist ... Town Church of Christ, Street Apostolic ...
Except you are wrong. As I posted earlier in URC there is a tradition which I take to be Puritan in origin (it fits with other naming traditions) of naming churches after Biblical places so you get "Zion", "Salem" and "Bethel" or places significant for worship so "Ebenezer" and "Tabernacle".
Jengie
That, too. Not strong in the antipodes, though. Actually nothing Puritan survives long down here.
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shameless self promotion - because I think it's worth it
and mayhap this too: http://broken-moments.blogspot.co.nz/
Posts: 18917 | From: "Central" is all they call it | Registered: Sep 2004
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Fr Weber
Shipmate
# 13472
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Zappa:
Actually nothing Puritan survives long down here.
Well, there's the Archdiocese of Sydney... ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
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"The Eucharist is not a play, and you're not Jesus."
--Sr Theresa Koernke, IHM
Posts: 2512 | From: Oakland, CA | Registered: Feb 2008
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
I think churches that hold on to their original geographical name, even when they've moved site, are quite interesting. In Birmingham, England there was a 'Cannon Street Baptist Church' that moved out of its city setting and followed its members into the suburbs. It's kept the name and is still going strong, but has added 'Memorial', perhaps to prevent confusion. I think most provincial churches that suffered from this demographic problem in the late Victorian and Edwardian eras simply had to close, so I'm not sure how widespread this phenomenon is.
It's also interesting how geographical denominational names lead to new adopted geographical identities around the world. For example, the Southern Baptists, the Moravians, and even the Anglicans, etc., were all named for a denomination born in a particular place, but which now has a global presence that may even dwarf the numbers of members in the original setting.
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
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Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Fr Weber:
quote:
Originally posted by Zappa:
Actually nothing Puritan survives long down here.
Well, there's the Archdiocese of Sydney...
Ahem, we call the dioceses here, even if it is the diocese of an Archbishop.
The diocese bears out what Zappa said. The campaign launched by ++ Peter to have 10% (or whatever) of the population in bible-believing churches in 5 years totally failed; vast sums of money were lost in the GFC and there's no chance of making up the losses; and ++ Peter was not listened to seriously (neither was George Cardinal Pell over the other side of Hyde Park, but that's another story). The Rector of Bellevue Hill, a smart Sydney address, was laughed at when he refused to allow a chocolate wheel at the church fête, and laughed at again when he attacked a Justice of the High Court for being gay.
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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
Posts: 7028 | From: Warrawee NSW Australia | Registered: Jun 2008
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
Enquiring minds need to know - just what is wrong (or un-Christian) with/about a chocolate wheel? ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
Re naming of churches - we have a most fascinating selection of denominations and names within just a few hundred yards of each other in a certain part of Our Fair City:
Treasure House/House of Favour Ministries;
Mountain of Fire and Miracles Ministry;
Incorruptible Word Ministry;
The King's Church;
The Celestial Church of Christ (St. X Parish);
The Church of The Good Companions (Unitarian);
....and another 'Word' church, whose name I can't for the moment recall.......
The King's Church have a former Presbyterian building (nicely restored and kept), and the Unitarians have a delightful late 19thC chapel, built, I think, specifically for them, and used by a variety of liberal groups and meetings. The Celestians have a much-restored mediaeval hospital chapel, and the others use various former offices/plant hire shops!
Week of Prayer for Christian Unity? Ha!
Ian J.
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
...The Church of The Good Companions...
Does the Minister give him/herself Priestl(e)y airs?
[ 22. May 2014, 19:28: Message edited by: Albertus ]
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My beard is a testament to my masculinity and virility, and demonstrates that I am a real man. Trouble is, bits of quiche sometimes get caught in it.
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Happy Pebble
Shipmate
# 2731
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Posted
My former Episcopal church home was the extraordinarily clumsily named Parish of the Holy Trinity and St. Anskar, like a corporate merger.
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Creamy Wibbibs. Mr. Habib, you're the evils of Darkon!
Posts: 62 | From: Kingdom of Deseret | Registered: Apr 2002
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Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815
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Posted
Chocolate wheels are gambling, the work of Satan amongst us, etc. Or at least some people think so, and go about making fools of themselves and their Church.
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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
Posts: 7028 | From: Warrawee NSW Australia | Registered: Jun 2008
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
Albertus....... ![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif) ![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif)
.....wish I'd thought of that one!
AFAIK, 'The Good Companions' (in this context) was a sort of mystical 'Order' set up by a Unitarian minister in days gone by. It included Jesus, Mohammed, Buddha, and various other founders of faiths, but quite what happened to it, I know not.
I guess it's a unique dedication, though on passing the church recently, I couldn't see the nameboard - it may have been blown down/removed.
Ian J.
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Vaticanchic
Shipmate
# 13869
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Posted
I wonder who is the most recent saint to have a dedication - perhaps Therese of Lisieux? Mind you, there will be memorial churches with more up-to-date titles.
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"Sink, Burn or Take Her a Prize"
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Augustine the Aleut
Shipmate
# 1472
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Vaticanchic:
I wonder who is the most recent saint to have a dedication - perhaps Therese of Lisieux? Mind you, there will be memorial churches with more up-to-date titles.
I think that Saint John XXIII in Winnipeg might be the most recent saint to have a dedication.
Posts: 6236 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: Oct 2001
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Basilica
Shipmate
# 16965
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Augustine the Aleut:
quote:
Originally posted by Vaticanchic:
I wonder who is the most recent saint to have a dedication - perhaps Therese of Lisieux? Mind you, there will be memorial churches with more up-to-date titles.
I think that Saint John XXIII in Winnipeg might be the most recent saint to have a dedication.
Or equally S. John Paul II...
Posts: 403 | Registered: Feb 2012
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Vaticanchic
Shipmate
# 13869
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Posted
Sounds to be so
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"Sink, Burn or Take Her a Prize"
Posts: 697 | From: UK | Registered: Jul 2008
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Vaticanchic
Shipmate
# 13869
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Posted
Just recalled something I was considering a while back about a possible relationship between the particular charism - or perhaps characteristics - of a local church & the dedication. Often a chicken-and-egg thing, of course, but still of interest.
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"Sink, Burn or Take Her a Prize"
Posts: 697 | From: UK | Registered: Jul 2008
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Adam.
Like as the
# 4991
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Posted
Once someone's beatified you can name a Church for them. I know of a few Bl. John XXIII churches that recently bought new signs.
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Ave Crux, Spes Unica!
Preaching blog
Posts: 8164 | From: Notre Dame, IN | Registered: Sep 2003
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Augustine the Aleut
Shipmate
# 1472
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Vaticanchic:
Just recalled something I was considering a while back about a possible relationship between the particular charism - or perhaps characteristics - of a local church & the dedication. Often a chicken-and-egg thing, of course, but still of interest.
I would love there to be a greater link between the dedication and what is going on in the parish but that would often require that the parishioners be told (or learn) something about their dedication. I once suggested to the rector of a certain church dedicated to S Lawrence that they raise funds through a barbecue and he looked puzzled. Looking at websites over the years, I saw that a few TEC churches do profiles of their name saints and sometimes parish groups or ministries link to this (e.g., S Luke for nurses and doctors).
Posts: 6236 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: Oct 2001
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Augustine the Aleut:
...I once suggested to the rector of a certain church dedicated to S Lawrence that they raise funds through a barbecue...
Brilliant, if slightly tasteless!
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Basilica
Shipmate
# 16965
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
quote:
Originally posted by Augustine the Aleut:
...I once suggested to the rector of a certain church dedicated to S Lawrence that they raise funds through a barbecue...
Brilliant, if slightly tasteless!
Though not as tasteless as the S Stephen equivalent could be.
Posts: 403 | Registered: Feb 2012
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
Yes- you could take advantage of the new laws in some of the western states- 'Come and get stoned at St Stephen's'...
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My beard is a testament to my masculinity and virility, and demonstrates that I am a real man. Trouble is, bits of quiche sometimes get caught in it.
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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betjemaniac
Shipmate
# 17618
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Vaticanchic:
Just recalled something I was considering a while back about a possible relationship between the particular charism - or perhaps characteristics - of a local church & the dedication. Often a chicken-and-egg thing, of course, but still of interest.
In the UK, to an extent....
If your CofE church is in an inner city back street, surrounded by terraced housing, and has a Black Letter Saint (TM) as a dedication, then 10:1 regardless of what it is now when it was built it was high as a kite....
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And is it true? For if it is....
Posts: 1481 | From: behind the dreaming spires | Registered: Mar 2013
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betjemaniac
Shipmate
# 17618
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Posted
As an addition, I think it works at that high level, but not really then reflecting the individual dedicatee so much.
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And is it true? For if it is....
Posts: 1481 | From: behind the dreaming spires | Registered: Mar 2013
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Stercus Tauri
Shipmate
# 16668
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Fr Weber:
quote:
Originally posted by The Silent Acolyte:
Seventeenth, eh?
I know when to fold.
If only the Church of Christ, Scientist were so prudent.
That's my parents' church you're talking about... I defected a very long time ago and became a contented presbyterian.
Around here two presbyterian churches, St Giles and St Andrew's, amalgamated recently to become the stunningly original Westside, to distinguish themselves from the other two presbyterian churches within a mile on the west side of the river, the clearly non-partisan Central and the fiercely traditional Knox's. (We are all in the same presbytery of The Presbyterian Church in Canada).
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Thay haif said. Quhat say thay, Lat thame say (George Keith, 5th Earl Marischal)
Posts: 905 | From: On the traditional lands of the Six Nations. | Registered: Sep 2011
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Edgeman
Shipmate
# 12867
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Happy Pebble:
My former Episcopal church home was the extraordinarily clumsily named Parish of the Holy Trinity and St. Anskar, like a corporate merger.
That's happened quite a bit here with parish mergers, hence the clumsily named St Agatha-St James (Not even so much as an "and" in there!)
The diocesan powers that be here seem to be fond of the hyphenated names for mergers, or completely changing the name of the parish entirely (Which a lot of the time doesn't work)
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http://sacristyxrat.tumblr.com/
Posts: 1420 | From: Philadelphia Penns. | Registered: Jul 2007
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Melangell
Shipmate
# 4023
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Basilica:
quote:
Originally posted by churchgeek:
quote:
Originally posted by seekingsister:
On a more traditional note, my mother grew up attending an Anglican church called St. Saviour's. I was visiting her hometown and when we drove past it I asked, "Who on Earth is St. Saviour?" She said she had never thought about it. My best guess is that it's Jesus and should more accurately be "Holy Saviour." Thoughts?
"Saint" means "holy." I've been told that there are a number of St. Saviour's churches around, and that it was an older naming tradition (in England?). (Also that there are St. Cross churches?) Is that true, anyone know? It could be that whoever told me that was just guessing.
There are quite a lot of St Saviour's churches in the UK. I think it was particularly popular as a dedication during the nineteenth century.
I'm not familiar with any church called St Cross, but "Holy Cross" is not unknown.
The dedication of Southwark [Anglican] Cathedral is St Saviour and St Mary Overy/Overie*. Very briefly, the Priory of St Mary Overy became the Church of St Saviour after the Dissolution of the Monasteries. When the church became the cathedral of the new Diocese of Southwark in 1905, the double dedication was established. The Cathedral has two patronal festivals: the BVM in September and Christ the King in November.
* "over the river", as Southwark is on the south bank of the Thames, opposite the earlier settlement of London
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Gwnewch y pethau bychein (Dewi Sant)
Do the little things (Saint David)
Posts: 367 | From: A bit of Wales in Surrey | Registered: Jan 2003
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JeffTL
Apprentice
# 16722
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Edgeman:
quote:
Originally posted by Happy Pebble:
My former Episcopal church home was the extraordinarily clumsily named Parish of the Holy Trinity and St. Anskar, like a corporate merger.
That's happened quite a bit here with parish mergers, hence the clumsily named St Agatha-St James (Not even so much as an "and" in there!)
The diocesan powers that be here seem to be fond of the hyphenated names for mergers, or completely changing the name of the parish entirely (Which a lot of the time doesn't work)
Here we have the Church of St Paul & the Redeemer, a consolidation of St. Paul's in Kenwood and the Church of the Redeemer in Hyde Park. It actually works pretty well as far as combined titles go. If I had to take a wild stab at the feast of title it'd be the Conversion of Paul.
Posts: 49 | From: Chicago | Registered: Oct 2011
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manfromcaerdeon
Apprentice
# 16672
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Posted
Doddington, with its ancient parish church nestling in the North Downs of Kent, has a dedication which is thought to be unique, and is known to date from at least 1467.It is dedicated to The Beheading of St John the Baptist.
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dj_ordinaire
Host
# 4643
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Edgeman:
quote:
Originally posted by Happy Pebble:
My former Episcopal church home was the extraordinarily clumsily named Parish of the Holy Trinity and St. Anskar, like a corporate merger.
That's happened quite a bit here with parish mergers, hence the clumsily named St Agatha-St James (Not even so much as an "and" in there!)
The diocesan powers that be here seem to be fond of the hyphenated names for mergers, or completely changing the name of the parish entirely (Which a lot of the time doesn't work)
It doesn't just follow form mergers however, many churches can have compounded or otherwise complex dedication. Case in point - the nattily-titled Papal Archbasilica of the Most Holy Redeemer and St. John the Baptist and St. John the Evangelist at the Lateran.
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Flinging wide the gates...
Posts: 10335 | From: Hanging in the balance of the reality of man | Registered: Jun 2003
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Fr Weber
Shipmate
# 13472
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gee D:
Chocolate wheels are gambling, the work of Satan amongst us, etc. Or at least some people think so, and go about making fools of themselves and their Church.
I suppose explaining that God's already decided where the wheel will land won't cut any ice with those people.
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"The Eucharist is not a play, and you're not Jesus."
--Sr Theresa Koernke, IHM
Posts: 2512 | From: Oakland, CA | Registered: Feb 2008
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The Silent Acolyte
Shipmate
# 1158
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Posted
Allow me to toss the merged parish of St. Jamonica into the ring.
In an idiotic scheme concocted by the diocesan apparatus to join St. Monica's with St. James, Capitol Hill, St. Jamonica's was the name supplied by those disapproving the merger.
Posts: 7462 | From: The New World | Registered: Aug 2001
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Forthview
Shipmate
# 12376
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Posted
To add to Blessed John XXIII now St John XXIII I was in Rome for the canonisation.On the day before the canonisation I passed in front of the tomb of JP2 with a huge marble slab indicating Beatus Joannes Paulus. The day after the canonisation there was ,presumably, a new slab of marble with Sanctus Joannes Paulus.
Posts: 3444 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2007
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Salicional
Shipmate
# 16461
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Posted
In some parts of the United States, Protestant churches are occasionally named for a benefactor in the congregation. For example, we have the 'Forrest Burdette Memorial UMC' in Hurricane, West Virginia; and the 'Bertha Strosacker Memorial Presbyterian Church' in Midland, Michigan.
There was also, up until a few years ago, the 'Sarah Hearn Memorial Presbyterian Church' of Erie, Pennsylvania, but they merged with another congregation and adopted the name 'New Hope'.
Posts: 68 | From: near Lake Erie | Registered: Jun 2011
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Ceremoniar
Shipmate
# 13596
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by dj_ordinaire:
It doesn't just follow form mergers however, many churches can have compounded or otherwise complex dedication. Case in point - the nattily-titled Papal Archbasilica of the Most Holy Redeemer and St. John the Baptist and St. John the Evangelist at the Lateran.
Just a technical correction here...As you may see from the Wikipedia source, listed at the right is the formal name of the archbasilica, in Latin. It is actually the Archbasilica of the Most Holy Savior, rather than Redeeemer.
Posts: 1240 | From: U.S. | Registered: Apr 2008
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georgiaboy
Shipmate
# 11294
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by manfromcaerdeon:
Doddington, with its ancient parish church nestling in the North Downs of Kent, has a dedication which is thought to be unique, and is known to date from at least 1467.It is dedicated to The Beheading of St John the Baptist.
Unique perhaps in the CofE, but in Venice there is the church called 'San Zan Degolla' (spelling unsure). This in Venetian Italian translates as 'St John the Beheaded.' (Info taken from Jan Morris's 'Venice,' wherein is info about lots of other unusual Venetian church dedications.)
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You can't retire from a calling.
Posts: 1675 | From: saint meinrad, IN | Registered: Apr 2006
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Al Eluia
Inquisitor
# 864
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Salicional:
In some parts of the United States, Protestant churches are occasionally named for a benefactor in the congregation. For example, we have the 'Forrest Burdette Memorial UMC' in Hurricane, West Virginia; and the 'Bertha Strosacker Memorial Presbyterian Church' in Midland, Michigan.
There was also, up until a few years ago, the 'Sarah Hearn Memorial Presbyterian Church' of Erie, Pennsylvania, but they merged with another congregation and adopted the name 'New Hope'.
Here's one named for the act of benefaction: Old Donation Episcopal Church in Virginia Beach, VA. A rector who left in 1776 (I wonder if he was a Tory!) donated land to the parish. It was known as Donation until I think the 1870's and then renamed Old Donation.
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Consider helping out the Anglican Seminary in El Salvador with a book or two! https://www.amazon.es/registry/wishlist/YDAZNSAWWWBT/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_ep_ws_7IRSzbD16R9RQ
https://www.episcopalcafe.com/a-seminary-is-born-in-el-salvador/
Posts: 1157 | From: Seattle | Registered: Jul 2001
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
Mesa, Arizona, has the Velda Rose United Methodist Church.
Actually, there are (or were at one time) a number of businesses in Mesa named after Velda Rose: a motel, drive-in movie, mineral bath, shopping center, golf course, etc.
But no one seems to remember who Velda Rose was. Speculation has it that she was a "hooker with a heart of gold" who atoned for her sins by becoming benefactress to the town.
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
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dj_ordinaire
Host
# 4643
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ceremoniar:
quote:
Originally posted by dj_ordinaire:
It doesn't just follow form mergers however, many churches can have compounded or otherwise complex dedication. Case in point - the nattily-titled Papal Archbasilica of the Most Holy Redeemer and St. John the Baptist and St. John the Evangelist at the Lateran.
Just a technical correction here...As you may see from the Wikipedia source, listed at the right is the formal name of the archbasilica, in Latin. It is actually the Archbasilica of the Most Holy Savior, rather than Redeeemer.
Ah yes, my mistake!
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Flinging wide the gates...
Posts: 10335 | From: Hanging in the balance of the reality of man | Registered: Jun 2003
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by dj_ordinaire:
many churches can have compounded or otherwise complex dedication.
I always thought that New York's Ss. Cyril and Methodius and St. Raphael made for strange bedfellows.
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
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Fr Weber
Shipmate
# 13472
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by georgiaboy:
quote:
Originally posted by manfromcaerdeon:
Doddington, with its ancient parish church nestling in the North Downs of Kent, has a dedication which is thought to be unique, and is known to date from at least 1467.It is dedicated to The Beheading of St John the Baptist.
Unique perhaps in the CofE, but in Venice there is the church called 'San Zan Degolla' (spelling unsure). This in Venetian Italian translates as 'St John the Beheaded.' (Info taken from Jan Morris's 'Venice,' wherein is info about lots of other unusual Venetian church dedications.)
San Giovanni Battista Decollato. There's also a church of that dedication in Rome, I think.
[ 19. June 2014, 15:32: Message edited by: Fr Weber ]
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"The Eucharist is not a play, and you're not Jesus."
--Sr Theresa Koernke, IHM
Posts: 2512 | From: Oakland, CA | Registered: Feb 2008
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Nick Tamen
Ship's Wayfaring Fool
# 15164
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Fr Weber:
quote:
Originally posted by georgiaboy:
quote:
Originally posted by manfromcaerdeon:
Doddington, with its ancient parish church nestling in the North Downs of Kent, has a dedication which is thought to be unique, and is known to date from at least 1467.It is dedicated to The Beheading of St John the Baptist.
Unique perhaps in the CofE, but in Venice there is the church called 'San Zan Degolla' (spelling unsure). This in Venetian Italian translates as 'St John the Beheaded.' (Info taken from Jan Morris's 'Venice,' wherein is info about lots of other unusual Venetian church dedications.)
San Giovanni Battista Decollato. There's also a church of that dedication in Rome, I think.
I would still have to concede uniqueness to the church in Duddington. A church dedicated to St. John the Beheaded isn't quite the same as one dedicated to the Beheading of St. John the Baptist. One refers to a person, the other to an event.
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The first thing God says to Moses is, "Take off your shoes." We are on holy ground. Hard to believe, but the truest thing I know. — Anne Lamott
Posts: 2833 | From: On heaven-crammed earth | Registered: Sep 2009
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dj_ordinaire
Host
# 4643
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ceremoniar:
quote:
Originally posted by dj_ordinaire:
It doesn't just follow form mergers however, many churches can have compounded or otherwise complex dedication. Case in point - the nattily-titled Papal Archbasilica of the Most Holy Redeemer and St. John the Baptist and St. John the Evangelist at the Lateran.
Just a technical correction here...As you may see from the Wikipedia source, listed at the right is the formal name of the archbasilica, in Latin. It is actually the Archbasilica of the Most Holy Savior, rather than Redeeemer.
Thinking about it, I was probably getting confused by thinking about another Christ the Redeemer for some reason!
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Flinging wide the gates...
Posts: 10335 | From: Hanging in the balance of the reality of man | Registered: Jun 2003
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