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Source: (consider it) Thread: Are tattoos unwise?
no prophet's flag is set so...

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quote:
Originally posted by Leaf:
no prophet's flag is set so...: You have chosen to communicate several aspects of your identity, not through the medium of ink on your own body, but through words you have chosen to type and post to an internet board. (It would have been more prudent to confine them to the frail flesh, where they would disintegrate over a few years, than to the eternity of the internet, but I digress.)

Let's take an example. You have mentioned several times that you cycle through the prairie winters. If you chose to have a little bicycle tattooed on yourself, it would be a sign - for yourself and/or others, depending on its visibility - that this is an important part of how you see yourself. You are a cyclist. It is something you enjoy, something you are proud of, something that has tested your endurance. It may not be important to you to mark that on your skin, but perhaps you can understand the impulse to proclaim that in other ways than through the pixels on your monitor.

Hiro's Leap identified many of the reasons people might have to get a tattoo. Do you not understand or empathize with any of them?

I think I'm a fossil from a different era. That's just not part of way I was socialized and live.

The general way is to not burden anyone with anything of yourself. I don't discuss or otherwise advertise that I cycle all the time. I only discuss if someone talks to me about it. I don't do it about that or anything much else. The most advertising of anything I do is wearing neckties to work. I've always worn one to work, I have about 300, I cull them periodically. I think about the weather, the mood / zeitgeist / atmosphere and select one. I don't know that it compares; although I have a few from 35 and 40 years ago, I wouldn't wear them any more and I cannot imagine have permanent What Kinda Guy? lyrics on me. Although I thought it was really cool in 1977.

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Maybe I should stop to consider that I'm not worthy of an epiphany and just take what life has to offer
(formerly was just "no prophet") \_(ツ)_/

Posts: 10439 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010  |  IP: Logged
teddybear
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Not a fan of any sort of non-medically required body modification or decoration. For me it is no different than graffiti on a work of art. I do not find it attractive or physically arousing in romantic partners. In fact, in the case of genital and oral piercings, it is a major turn off. Not a moral judgement on him/her as a person, I find just find them unattractive and in some cases downright disgusting (specifically a clear plug in the cheek that allowed you to watch the person's chewing of food, gum, tobacco, etc). Your choice though! As it is mine not to be a fan.

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My cooking blog: http://inthekitchenwithdon.blogspot.com/

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Zappa
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Tangent alert
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
I have a few from 35 and 40 years ago, I wouldn't wear them any more ... I thought it was really cool in 1977.

Wow ... are they mustard and wide? [Axe murder] I *so* want one.

Or maybe an '80s paisley one?

Actually I don't think this was a tangent after all. Because I sure wouldn't want both.

As it happens I have a huge medical scar on my back. I've always wanted old english script <<ouch>> and an arrow pointing to it on my back.

But I'm too frugal to spend the money. So basically I'm with you on this one. I call them "silly pics" - especially those one of Hiawatha and Goddess knows who else trapising through pine trees on dolphins

OTOH I wouldn't impose my prejudices on those that have them (by posting on a bulletin board? ... oh, wait). But I sure as hell wouldn't want one.

Though I think the Pacific cultural ones are brilliant - on Polynesians ... and look patronizing on non-Polynesians - although ....

[ 31. January 2017, 19:27: Message edited by: Zappa ]

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and mayhap this too: http://broken-moments.blogspot.co.nz/

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Lyda*Rose

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Zappa:
quote:
...Hiawatha and Goddess knows who else trapising through pine trees on dolphins
[Ultra confused] The mind boggles.

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"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano

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no prophet's flag is set so...

Proceed to see sea
# 15560

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quote:
Originally posted by Zappa:
Tangent alert
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
I have a few from 35 and 40 years ago, I wouldn't wear them any more ... I thought it was really cool in 1977.

Wow ... are they mustard and wide? [Axe murder] I *so* want one.

Or maybe an '80s paisley one?

No mustard tie, but I have an electric lemon yellow suit jacket made of silk, which my wife wanted to give away (horrors). If I want to keep I shall have to start wearing it again. Such apparel says youth, vitality and once went with the long blond hair I had.

I don't have any paisley ties any more. They went about 4 years ago. I have some lovely flowers, and some tie dyed. They go well with lime green shirts. That all went out the door with the his and her matching outfits.

quote:
Originally posted by Zappa:

Though I think the Pacific cultural ones are brilliant - on Polynesians ... and look patronizing on non-Polynesians - although ....

Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has a Haida tattoo, which Maclean's magazine (largest Cdn news mag) has as Originally posted by Zappa:
[QB]]awkward
.

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Maybe I should stop to consider that I'm not worthy of an epiphany and just take what life has to offer
(formerly was just "no prophet") \_(ツ)_/

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Enoch
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quote:
Originally posted by Leaf:
... Let's take an example. You have mentioned several times that you cycle through the prairie winters. If you chose to have a little bicycle tattooed on yourself, it would be a sign - for yourself and/or others, depending on its visibility - that this is an important part of how you see yourself. You are a cyclist. It is something you enjoy, something you are proud of, something that has tested your endurance. It may not be important to you to mark that on your skin, but perhaps you can understand the impulse to proclaim that in other ways than through the pixels on your monitor. ...

This may be to some a weird question, but why this strange compulsion to make a statement about oneself?

Why does it matter? Who is interested? Why should they be, and why should I think they need to be? Where does it come from? Why is it important to some people, when others of us don't really have it? Why do it? Is it worthy, when to those of us who haven't really got this urge, it seems more than a bit reprehensible?

I ride a bicycle sometimes, but I don't feel any urge to say to the world at large, whether I know them or not, and whether they are interested or not, 'I am a cyclist'. I don't even think riding a bicycle sometimes needs to give me an identity as in 'I am a cyclist'.

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no prophet's flag is set so...

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sorry for link mess!
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Leaf
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quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
The general way is to not burden anyone with anything of yourself. I don't discuss or otherwise advertise that I cycle all the time. I only discuss if someone talks to me about it. I don't do it about that or anything much else.

Except this isn't true, is it? Either you have consciously or unconsciously rejected what you describe as your socialization, but the fact of the matter is that you have shared many aspects of your life on this forum. So why pretend to be reticent when you haven't been?

Is it possible that when you were young and wearing garish ties that some "old fossil" grouched about why you chose to be so flashy and draw attention to yourself?

Why judge what someone else does within their own skin? Did you start this thread seeking support for your opinion, or to genuinely try to understand why people do this?

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mousethief

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quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
This may be to some a weird question, but why this strange compulsion to make a statement about oneself?

Why does it matter? Who is interested? Why should they be, and why should I think they need to be? Where does it come from? Why is it important to some people, when others of us don't really have it? Why do it? Is it worthy, when to those of us who haven't really got this urge, it seems more than a bit reprehensible?

Hey, speak for yourself. I don't feel this urge, but it doesn't seem reprehensible to me. Unfathomable maybe. But not reprehensible.

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God has shown me that I should not call any man impure or unclean. --Acts 10:28

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Pigwidgeon

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quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
This may be to some a weird question, but why this strange compulsion to make a statement about oneself?

A lot of people have this compulsion, but in a more temporary manner -- bumper stickers on their cars or t-shirts expounding causes, interests, places they've traveled. A tattoo is pretty much the same thing, except if you change your interests in a few years you're still stuck with it.

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Don't keep calm. Go change the world.

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no prophet's flag is set so...

Proceed to see sea
# 15560

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quote:
Originally posted by Leaf:
... the fact of the matter is that you have shared many aspects of your life on this forum. So why pretend to be reticent when you haven't been?

Real versus an online forum. Kind of obvious. I am allowed to violate usual norms.

quote:
Is it possible that when you were young and wearing garish ties that some "old fossil" grouched about why you chose to be so flashy and draw attention to yourself?
They weren't garish at the time. Right in style. Lovely side burns and moustashes were too.

quote:
Why judge what someone else does within their own skin? Did you start this thread seeking support for your opinion, or to genuinely try to understand why people do this?
Because a dermatologist discussed the health risks in a lengthy appointment. The risks are known and yet to be seen, and we wandered into thoughts what appears to be a false individualisation of a conformity behaviour. I wondered if it was a symptom of what appears to be a narrowing of education and breadth of knowledge, increasing acceleration of a media and consumer society where it is easier to market to people if they are all the same, and their deviance is within fairly narrow bounds.

Tattoos make people feel that they are special individuals, this is understood. But isn't this an illusion, only skin deep? Also, what was once private is public. Mass media culture. Hence the similar spread of intimate piercings and pubic shaving, and behaviour shaped by representations found by an internet search engine. I think it is a mass culture thing, which pretends to be something it isn't.

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lilBuddha
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Holy crap, the smell of liniment is cloying and the sound of cane rattling is simply deafening.

np, is all of this because you appear to have made absolutely no effort to even appear to be an individual?

Truth is, very few people are as individualistic as they would like. Non-conformity is most often conforming to a smaller group, rather than no group at all. How much a person is an individual is why one does, not what one does.

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So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

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Karl: Liberal Backslider
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# 76

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I think to see tattoos as making people feel like individuals is to have the tail wagging the dog.

Rather, people already feel that they are individuals, and may get a tattoo as part of expressing that.

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Might as well ask the bloody cat.

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Karl: Liberal Backslider
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# 76

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quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
This may be to some a weird question, but why this strange compulsion to make a statement about oneself?

Why does it matter? Who is interested? Why should they be, and why should I think they need to be? Where does it come from? Why is it important to some people, when others of us don't really have it? Why do it? Is it worthy, when to those of us who haven't really got this urge, it seems more than a bit reprehensible?

Hey, speak for yourself. I don't feel this urge, but it doesn't seem reprehensible to me. Unfathomable maybe. But not reprehensible.
I'm replying to MT's post because I've done a quick scan and can't locate Enoch's original. So sue me.

Well, I'm not inked, but I do have both an unconventional hairstyle and wardrobe (it's actually very hard for me to find clothes I like and you can almost smell the disdain from shop assistants sometimes when I actually find something I like in a mainstream shop, because they'd already got it pegged as "no-one will buy that!")

So you could say I use my outward appearance to make a statement. I[m sorry Enoch finds that reprehensible.

At the risk of doing some armchair pop-psychology on myself, though, I'll explain to Enoch why I think I have this reprehensible compulsion.

It's because I'm weird. It's because I have no interest in the things most people seem interested in. I spent my school years completely alone because I didn't, couldn't, care and talk about the things that interested everyone else - mostly sports and chart music. It's because I grew to see conventionality as a signal that one was normal, interested in the things normal people are interested in. And since normal people clearly despised me (having the shit beaten out of you for being a weirdo kind of reinforces that point) I had no desire to emulate them. So I didn't. I discovered metal and hard rock at University, found people who in the main also didn't key into mainstream interests, so naturally I picked up some of their styles as I felt more at home with them, hence the hair and predominance of black and purple in my wardrobe.

I work in IT. Not just because I find a natural aptitude for the field, and despite having a number of issues with the stress of it, but because I've experienced the same rejection and antipathy from normal, conventional people whenever I've worked in a more conventional field, and I've been ostracised and frankly bullied. People don't understand how I think, how I talk, how I reason, what I'm interested in, and frankly I don't understand normal people, despite nearly 50 years of trying to share this planet with them.

Largely I pretend they don't exist. I work in a field full of weirdos. I keep up weird hobbies. I even go to a church full of weirdos. My music tastes have shifted a bit and it's more Tull and Fairport than Slayer and Aerosmith these days, but I still look at the covers of maintream magazines and wonder who these people are, and why I should be interested, and then realise the answer is they're no-one in particular to me and there's no reason I should be.

Bitter? Twisted? Maybe. But it keeps me just on this side of sanity. But I have a deep and lasting aversion to doing anything that might make anyone mistake me for being a normal conventional guy, because the normal conventional world doesn't want me, so why should I want to be associated with it?

I went to a football match once; kids' school had free tickets for some reason. That's 90 minutes of my life I'm fucking owed back. I can't believe people pay a fortune for that. And they think I'm weird.

[ 01. February 2017, 08:37: Message edited by: Karl: Liberal Backslider ]

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Might as well ask the bloody cat.

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DonLogan2
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I had a tattoo done in 1981 iirc, just a small rose and scroll with my wifes name in it, perhaps as a sign to others that I was in a relationship. Yes a wedding band would do the same thing but as an engineer I did not wear it much as it was a bit of a liability.
Then the AIDS "epidemic" arrived and any thoughts of more were quashed, until I became a Christian in the late noughties. I now have a couple more and am planning a couple more.
They have been asked about as they are not regular tats and this can be a basis for exploring Christian faith, but they mainly help me to remember my commitment.

Are my tattoos unwise? Who knows, I don`t think they are, unless someone takes offence at them (Jews or Muslims probably). I don`t think they are as unwise as a member of Barrio 18 or MS 13, but I suppose my tats are also about gang membership too.

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“I have of late, but wherefore I know not, lost all my mirth... "

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Anselmina
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quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:


Tattoos make people feel that they are special individuals, this is understood. But isn't this an illusion, only skin deep? Also, what was once private is public. Mass media culture. Hence the similar spread of intimate piercings and pubic shaving, and behaviour shaped by representations found by an internet search engine. I think it is a mass culture thing, which pretends to be something it isn't.

My tatt was and is rarely if ever on display (I wear long sleeves, in case you're wondering!) so it was solely for my own edification. The reason why not even my mum knew I had it for about twenty years, was because the subject never came up and it was never on show.

So I think what Karl said is probably more true, that because people are individuals they might choose to have a tattoo, reflecting some aspect of their life; rather than the aim of having a tattoo in order to be thought special. Though for some people that is their 'thing' undoubtedly.

And people are special individuals, for the matter of that. Each one of us. And some individuals like tatts and some don't. There are, of course, those who tattoo because they - as an individual - think they're doing something defiant, or creative, or personally relevant to them. Too many reasons to generalize tattooing as a phenomenon belonging only to one kind of mindset or attitude. Though there is a greater acceptance of it these days, hence the increased acres of inked skin on show.

I think the most one can say about tattooing is that you can get them for good reasons or for bad reasons. But you may not know whether those reasons really were good or bad, till later down the line! It's a risk, but some are happy to take that risk.

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mousethief

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# 953

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quote:
Originally posted by DonLogan2:
I had a tattoo done in 1981 iirc, just a small rose and scroll with my wifes name in it, perhaps as a sign to others that I was in a relationship. Yes a wedding band would do the same thing but as an engineer I did not wear it much as it was a bit of a liability.
Then the AIDS "epidemic" arrived and any thoughts of more were quashed, until I became a Christian in the late noughties. I now have a couple more and am planning a couple more.
They have been asked about as they are not regular tats and this can be a basis for exploring Christian faith, but they mainly help me to remember my commitment.

Are my tattoos unwise? Who knows, I don`t think they are, unless someone takes offence at them (Jews or Muslims probably). I don`t think they are as unwise as a member of Barrio 18 or MS 13, but I suppose my tats are also about gang membership too.

Why would Jews or Muslims care?

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God has shown me that I should not call any man impure or unclean. --Acts 10:28

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DonLogan2
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# 15608

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Hebrew script, Sh`ma.

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“I have of late, but wherefore I know not, lost all my mirth... "

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mdijon
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Jews and Muslims would care about tattoos because Hebrew script? I can't follow the syntax. I don't think the Shema says anything about tattoos, and although I believe there is a Jewish law prohibiting tattoos I don't see how that results in taking offence if others have tattoos or why Muslims would worry about that.

Tattoos are not an absolute barrier to epidurals by the way. The risk is they could leave an unsightly pock in the middle of the tattoo, or (less likely) if the tattoo is infected or recent there would be an infection risk. There is a controversial idea about skin cancer risk but that hasn't really got much evidence behind it.

[ 02. February 2017, 11:00: Message edited by: mdijon ]

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mdijon nojidm uoɿıqɯ ɯqıɿou
ɯqıɿou uoɿıqɯ nojidm mdijon

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Graven Image
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I do not have any ink but do not mind others doing so as long as it is not offensive. I have seen some beautiful work on a women who had both of her breasts removed. On the other hand I know trying to find work with prison tattoos can be a real problem for people trying to make a new start in life. Blessings on doctors to remove them for free. I also once saw a women in a wedding dress with full sleeve tattoos, not a pretty sight IMHO.

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GorgeousPit
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As for me, tattoo is not a decoration of your body..It must describe you as a personality! That's why I wanna be inked with an owl!The Owl has a deep meaning in the tattooing art.
It is one of the main aspects for me, as well as
the right professional expert and image that is
worthy to be on my body for a long period of time.
I've found some awesome designs here
http://flowertattooideas.com/owl-tattoos/ , and I relly like Flying Owl Tattoo. But I'm not shure about the placement...
Need your advice, guys!

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Brenda Clough
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# 18061

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There was a Women's March in January of this year (you may have heard of it) and I made signs for it. One of them said, "My Pussy, My Rules."
This pertains to areas beyond the genitalia. It is your body and you get to do what you want with it. The only rule is that you don't involve the rest of us in it. We do not have to pay for your tat or your tattoo removal; if you decide to do major things to yourself plan to bear all the costs and consequences.
And this is why it is prudent to have laws preventing very young people from doing permanent things to themselves. I submit to you that any tattoo selected by a 13-year-old is not something that anyone would want to have on their arm thirty years later.

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lilBuddha
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quote:
Originally posted by GorgeousPit:
But I'm not shure about the placement...
Need your advice, guys!

If you haven't been thinking about it for a long time, give yourself a cooling off period. No need to hurry.
Don't do a design off the wall of a shop, aka flash, or a design that has already been done. In other words, an original design.
Think about placement in regards to your occupation. Mine can be hidden or shown as I choose.
Research your artist, talk to several in their shops. Don't look at one design as proof of their abilities, look through their albums.
Clean and sober is how you want your artist and her/his clients.
Get to know sterilization techniques and make certain s/he follows those.
As Brenda says, the choice is yours, choose wisely.

--------------------
So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

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Kitten
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I second the idea of a cooling off period, it took me a year between deciding to get my first tattoo and getting it done. I decided on my second last year and have not yet had it done, I am awaiting a particular tattooist though

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Pangolin Guerre
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# 18686

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Generally, I dislike tattoos for aesthetic reasons, but, OTOH, I've seen some I quite like. An (ahem) intimate acquaintance has a very nicely executed Haida face on his shoulder, above his left bicep. He's not Haida, but he is half First Nation, so I think it entirely appropriate. Another friend of mine has a fractal on a bicep. Points for interesting choice.

I've seen others (actually, increasingly frequently) sporting facial tattoos, and I can almost guarantee that these guys aren't Polynesian. If you're Maori, well, fine, then. I'm all for honouring one's heritage (see above). If not, well, less fine. Neck and facial tattoos, to my mind, are such a complete rejection of broader society, of nailing one's colours to the mast, that it strikes me almost as though they've given up. That said, that's my reading into it. I have strong objections to unconcealed tattoos which by any standard are obscene (and I have seen them). I also object to tattoos which have a particular significance to which one has no earned claim. Two uncles had military tattoos : One served in the RCN, the other in the RCAF, which is fine. The same tattoo on a civilian, not so fine. Similarly, in Canada, a simple 2-D red maple leaf over one's heart has achieved a certain popularity. It either originated with, or was popularised by, our men's swim team at the 1984 Olympics. I feel that that should be reserved only for those who have represented us in international competition.

On a lighter note, some years ago there was a television advertisement promoting responsible drinking. Young guy, very early 20s, wakes up with a colossal hangover. He stumbles into the bathroom (POV is the mirror's), and is rather shocked to discover in the mirror that he now has a nipple ring. He grins, gives the ring a bit of a flick, and gives the mirror a "Yeah, I'm a badass" look and walks back to the bedroom. We then see that on his back left shoulder he had tattooed a very large, very un-badass teddy bear.

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Galloping Granny
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# 13814

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quote:
Originally posted by Huia:
I have my ears pierced because when I wore earrings all the best ones were for pierced ears (and I totally agree with Lamb Chopped about the pain of clip on ones - the screw on ones were even worse).

I would never have a tattoo due to the pain factor and my indecisiveness, but I am interested in the rise of traditional tattoos among Maori, especially the moko kauae the chin tattoo that was traditionally given to women with high mana (high ranking women).

Huia

It's interesting that cultural differences give a totally different slant to the tatooing issue. I find a Maori full-face moko very impressive; that and the moko kauae represent mana and I respond with respect.
But it is a serious decision to undertake the moko, and totally different from the very personal reasons that we've been discussing, that are intended to show individuality or, as someone pointed out, to show that they're one of the crowd.

GG

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The Kingdom of Heaven is spread upon the earth, and men do not see it. Gospel of Thomas, 113

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lilBuddha
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Tā moko today is a sign of identity. As is, for some people, tattoo. The difference being, IMO, that traditional body modification such as tā moko have cultural connotations that do not translate to outsiders comfortably.
Another difference being permissibility. Originally, some modifications required cultural permission. We live in a society that controls appearance through peer pressure rather than strict societal rules. As such, much of our approval/disapproval stems from our peer groups.

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So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

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