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Source: (consider it) Thread: UK General Election June 8th 2017
Matt Black

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quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
quote:
Originally posted by Matt Black:
Lib Dem for me; the only consistently anti-Brexit party.

Wrong. Plaid Cymru have always also been anti-Brexit.
As have the SNP I believe. But as an English resident I can't vote for either.

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DaleMaily
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Interesting thoughts here by John Curtice on whether the Tories will actually get the landslide that their poll lead suggests, given that the SNP have a stranglehold on Scotland and Northern Island basically does its own thing (even more interesting for NI is that their recent Assembly election cut support for the DUP and UU...).

The Lib Dems in the South West may also be feeling confident about grabbing some of their old seats back: the Tories succeeded in 2015 with their scare tactic of Labour & SNP in coalition, but since Labour aren't likely to be in such a position voters may feel OK about voting Lib Dem again.

(Declaration of interest: I've generally been a Lib Dem supporter since Charlie Kennedy)

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lowlands_boy
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No TV debates in this election, according to No. 10....

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Marvin the Martian

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quote:
Originally posted by lowlands_boy:
No TV debates in this election, according to No. 10....

That's a relief. May v Corbyn v Farron - how rubbish would that be?

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Sipech
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quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by lowlands_boy:
No TV debates in this election, according to No. 10....

That's a relief. May v Corbyn v Farron - how rubbish would that be?
Might've been OK had they done it in the style of a Robot Wars mayhem match.

In which case Jeremy Paxman would be Sir Killalot and David Dimbleby would be Matilda.

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Garden Hermit
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Fake Breaking News - Nigel Farage to resume the Helm of UKIP. Jeremy Corbyn resigns forcing Leadership election. It really is fake isn't it ?
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Enoch
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I accept that a lot of people would like to think Labour is on the Remain side of the line. I accept that some of its key players probably still wish it was. But objectively it isn't. Some of the other bits of his ideology may be different, but Corbyn and his party line make it as much a Brexiteer party as Mrs Erdogan and hers.

Unless you're in Scotland or Wales, the choice is between,
UKIP + a bit of socialism,
UKIP in a skirt and red heels, or
Lib Dam and hope enough other people do to give them a chance to block at least some of (and IMHO preferably all) of Brexit.

[ 18. April 2017, 16:55: Message edited by: Enoch ]

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Dafyd
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quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
I accept that a lot of people would like to think Labour is on the Remain side of the line. I accept that some of its key players probably still wish it was. But objectively it isn't. Some of the other bits of his ideology may be different, but Corbyn and his party line make it as much a Brexiteer party as Mrs Erdogan and hers.

I agree in general. But some Labour MPs ignored the party whip on Jeremy Corbyn's We're Definitely Going to Oppose the Tories Later vote.

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Adeodatus
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I notice that today, when it really counts (i.e. when it becomes a matter of their livelihoods!) Labour MPs seem remarkably united. By which I mean there hasn't been an out-and-out spat for hours.

A word of caution before anyone pays too much attention to "what the polls are saying" - Stephan Shakespeare, CEO of YouGov, is a former Tory parliamentary candidate. Its co-founder was Nadhim Zahawi, the Tory MP most famous during the expenses scandal for trying to get his stables heated at the taxpayers' expense.

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Schroedinger's cat

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More politics. More politicians telling lies, spouting the usual bullshit before they screw us all roundly for the next few years.

Firstly, I don't know if I can stand it any more. Political crap by the digger-load.

Secondly, there is a possibility that shit-face will get in again, and continue her policy of trashing the country. The idea makes me want to vomit.

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Bishops Finger
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Comfort yourself with the thought that it'll all be over in just a few weeks.

Even more so if the Terrible Toddlers start throwing their nuclear toys about in the meantime.....

IJ

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Marvin the Martian

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quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
Secondly, there is a possibility that shit-face will get in again, and continue her policy of trashing the country. The idea makes me want to vomit.

So campaign against her!

That's the hard part of the whole "democracy" thing. One Person One Vote is the easy bit, the rest is all about trying to convince each One Person to give their One Vote to the causes you support. If you succeed I shall congratulate you. If you fail I shall expect you to STFU about it for a bit.

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Hail Gallaxhar

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Marvin the Martian

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quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
Even more so if the Terrible Toddlers start throwing their nuclear toys about in the meantime.....

We're literally on the other side of the world. I say leave 'em to it.

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Hail Gallaxhar

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mr cheesy
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Meanwhile prosecutors have apparently announced that they're considering charging more than 30 with election expense fraud. I wonder if this had any impact on the timing of the GE.

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stonespring
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Two of my questions as an outsider:

1. I know it is not likely to happen or succeed, but how would a pact among the anti-Brexit (or anti-Tory) parties work? I would propose that Labour, the Lib Dems, SNP, Plaid Cymru, and the Greens (I won't go into the NI parties because things are more complicated there) agree that in any seat that is not absolutely safe for one of their parties, all other candidates drop out except for the one that is most likely to defeat the Tory candidate. In order to make this a truly pro-remain election, I think Corwyn would need to say that although he honored the outcome of the referendum by voting to let May trigger article 50, this snap election has allowed voters to give a second opinion on Brexit, and the Brexit outcome that the Leave campaign said would happen is now clearly not what the Tories have said they would do or what the EU is likely to accept, so Labour should campaign to try to get the EU to change its rules to let the UK remain after triggering article 50 or, at the very least, try to negotiate the softest Brexit possible (a la Norway).

As for a second Scottish Independence referendum, I think that the SNP should say that if this election can result in no Brexit or a a Brexit that retains access to the EU common market, they would be willing to postpone a second independence referendum for the time being, but if the Tories keep their majority and push for a hard Brexit like they have been doing, they will keep pushing for a second referendum.

Those of you who would like to see such an anti-Brexit, anti-Tory pact - what do you think it should look like, unlikely or unpractical as it may be?

2. What prevents Parliament from just repealing the law requiring a 2/3 vote to have an early election rather than wait 5 years with a normal majority vote? Since the UK doesn't have a written constitution, how does one law get to prevent future laws from repealing it with a normal majority? Someone who understands British politics better than I can probably explain this.

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Sioni Sais
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quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
I accept that a lot of people would like to think Labour is on the Remain side of the line. I accept that some of its key players probably still wish it was. But objectively it isn't. Some of the other bits of his ideology may be different, but Corbyn and his party line make it as much a Brexiteer party as Mrs Erdogan and hers.

I agree in general. But some Labour MPs ignored the party whip on Jeremy Corbyn's We're Definitely Going to Oppose the Tories Later vote.
We should remember that most of the current government, including the PM and the chancellor were on the Remain side until June 24th. There isn't much principle around.
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Edith
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All I can say to that is 'if only'. The problem is that those who are politically very engaged and committed will not or cannot make common cause with other parties whose 'doctrine' isn't as pure as theirs. There are so many parallels with religious sects and one has only to look at the way it's seemingly impossibly for Christians of broadly similar persuasion to join together because of some ancient dispute or disagreement over matters of theology which matter not a fig, to ordinary people, to see how impossible that sort of alliance would be.
The only way now for anti Tories to retain at risk seats is where there is a constituency MP who has genuinely committed themselves to the local people and whose good faith is not in question. There are some,but sadly all too few.

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Edith

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Dafyd
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quote:
Originally posted by stonespring:
I know it is not likely to happen or succeed, but how would a pact among the anti-Brexit (or anti-Tory) parties work?

I get the impression that Corbyn only thinks there are two legitimate political parties. Also he and a good section of his support won't forgive the Liberal Democrats for going into coalition with the Tories last time. Finally, I really don't think Corbyn's heart is in Remain.

On the side of the SNP I think they'll be happy to take the risk of losing a seat in order to get the chance of completing the collection.

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Anglican't
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quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
I accept that a lot of people would like to think Labour is on the Remain side of the line. I accept that some of its key players probably still wish it was. But objectively it isn't. Some of the other bits of his ideology may be different, but Corbyn and his party line make it as much a Brexiteer party as Mrs Erdogan and hers.

I agree in general. But some Labour MPs ignored the party whip on Jeremy Corbyn's We're Definitely Going to Oppose the Tories Later vote.
We should remember that most of the current government, including the PM and the chancellor were on the Remain side until June 24th. There isn't much principle around.
And what happened in the early hours of 24th June to change their minds...?
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Sioni Sais
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quote:
Originally posted by PaulTH*:
quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
Wrong. Plaid Cymru have always also been anti-Brexit.

The Welsh voters weren't though. So it leaves us asking how much of Wales the party represents.
For the most part PC gets seats in the Welsh-speaking parts of Wales. They have won parliamentary seats elsewhere, but not Cardiff North, dormitory area home of Welsh Office/National Assembly and BBC Wales/Cymru staff, many of whom are Welsh speakers.

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Cod
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An important question is where the UKIP vote goes. Their increase at the last election came partly by taking Tory votes, and also attracting previous non-voters. However, they also took votes from Labour.

The polling trends (declining Labour and UKIP and increasing Tory) suggest that the UKIP vote is heading over to Theresa May's (supposedly) one-nation Tory party and not back to Labour. If so, the Tories could pick up a further swathe of Middle England seats, particularly if Labour campaign on a Remain ticket.

With two or three extra Tory seats in Scotland I'm picking a 100+ majority for the them. Certainly enough for May conduct Brexit negotiations without having to worry about some troublesome backbenchers and Lords.

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Sioni Sais
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quote:
Originally posted by Anglican't:
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
We should remember that most of the current government, including the PM and the chancellor were on the Remain side until June 24th. There isn't much principle around.

And what happened in the early hours of 24th June to change their minds...?
They had a Road to Damascus moment, in which they considered their political ambitions and reassessed their futures.

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(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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Schroedinger's cat

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quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
Secondly, there is a possibility that shit-face will get in again, and continue her policy of trashing the country. The idea makes me want to vomit.

So campaign against her!

That's the hard part of the whole "democracy" thing. One Person One Vote is the easy bit, the rest is all about trying to convince each One Person to give their One Vote to the causes you support. If you succeed I shall congratulate you. If you fail I shall expect you to STFU about it for a bit.

I have plenty of times in the past, and will, as much as I am able, this time.

And I won't STFU whatever, because I will continue standing for hose who are oppressed. That applied whatever the party in power is.

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PaulTH*
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quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
I accept that a lot of people would like to think Labour is on the Remain side of the line {/B]

During the Article 50 debate in February/March, Sir Kier Starmer repeatedly made the point that Labour is a pro EU party. Now I am sure that I will never vote Labour while Jeremy Corbyn is leader and while Ken Livingstone is allowed to remain a member, but I feel sorry for the impossibility Labour has of defining a coherent strategy for Brexit to take into this election. Two thirds of Labour voters voted Remain. Two thirds of Labour constituencies voted Leave. You can't please them all.

I recently heard Jezza say that he will insist that Britain remains in the Single Market and the Customs Union to protect jobs. I think all MP's will pay lip service to the idea of protecting jobs, but Corbyn is against the wall here. If we stay in the SM and CU we will continue to make large contributions to the EU budget. We will continue to accept the indivisible four freedoms and we will be unable to arrange any unilateral trade deals. Most importantly, we will have no say over how any of these rules are made. JC will be called out over this during this election campaign, and I'd love to see how he tries to sell this to the voters.

quote:
Originally posted by Matt Black:
[B] Lib Dem for me; the only consistently anti-Brexit party

Although I won't be joining Matt in supporting the Lib Dems, he's right here. Anyone who is so passionately opposed to Brexit that they would move heaven and earth to reverse the decision MUST vote Lib Dem. I made a flippant aside to Tim Farron getting more Lib votes than any leader since Lloyd George, but if the country(in England, that is. The Scots have the SNP and the Welsh have Plaid) wants to stop Brexit it's the only way to vote.

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Kwesi
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stonespring
quote:
Since the UK doesn't have a written constitution, how does one law get to prevent future laws from repealing it with a normal majority? Someone who understands British politics better than I can probably explain this.
In the UK Parliament is Sovereign. Consequently, it follows that any one Parliament 'cannot bind its successors".
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Anglican't
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quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
quote:
Originally posted by Anglican't:
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
We should remember that most of the current government, including the PM and the chancellor were on the Remain side until June 24th. There isn't much principle around.

And what happened in the early hours of 24th June to change their minds...?
They had a Road to Damascus moment, in which they considered their political ambitions and reassessed their futures.
Oh I see. I thought a referendum result came through (which they'd promised to honour).
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Enoch
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quote:
Originally posted by stonespring:
... 2. What prevents Parliament from just repealing the law requiring a 2/3 vote to have an early election rather than wait 5 years with a normal majority vote? Since the UK doesn't have a written constitution, how does one law get to prevent future laws from repealing it with a normal majority? Someone who understands British politics better than I can probably explain this.

Stonespring, it takes longer.

It's also possible that some MPs might vote against it on the grounds that it hasn't been in a Queen's speech. And the Lords could reject it on the same grounds, which would defer it still further. They can't obstruct a vote to call an election under the Act.

quote:
originally posted by Dafyd
... Finally, I really don't think Corbyn's heart is in Remain. ...

Corbyn isn't a Remainer, never was one and never wanted to be one. His heart is in Socialism in One Country - led by him. He regards membership of the EU as something that hinders his ability to impose that dream.

He was prepared to accept before the Referendum that EU membership was Labour Party policy. He claims, probably truthfully, that he voted for it. But he markedly didn't campaign for it.

[ 18. April 2017, 20:57: Message edited by: Enoch ]

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Cod
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Actually I have the impression he doesn't want to run anything. I agree with the rest of what you say though.

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"Line dancing is as sinful as any other type of dancing, with its sexual gestures and touching. It is an incitement to lust."
Rev Dr Ian Paisley

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PaulTH*
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On last night's news coverage I saw more than one Labour MP trying to divert the conversation in the direction of the crisis in the NHS, school funding etc. This is something they're perfectly entitled to do as Brexit isn't the only game in town, or shouldn't be in a General Election. But all the news teams and most of the politicians agree that this is a Brexit election. Labour is still the most trusted party with regards to the NHS even when it's deeply unpopular. But what the public want to know from Labour is what vision it has for Brexit and how it plans to achieve it. Its lack of policy in this direction will, I believe, cost it dearly in the election.

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Paul

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Gee D
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quote:
Originally posted by PaulTH*:
Its lack of policy in this direction will, I believe, cost it dearly in the election.

A slight correction: its lack of policy and Corbyn's lack of ability to lead the party.

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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican

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Enoch
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quote:
Originally posted by Cod:
Actually I have the impression he doesn't want to run anything. I agree with the rest of what you say though.

Corbyn has two fantasies, both of which make him unsuitable to be allowed anywhere near power. One is that he's Lenin. The other is, that if as leader, he says something, that's all he needs to do. It will happen.

John McDonnell, though, who is hovering in the background all the time, is sinister.

[ 19. April 2017, 08:44: Message edited by: Enoch ]

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ExclamationMark
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quote:
Originally posted by PaulTH*:
On last night's news coverage I saw more than one Labour MP trying to divert the conversation in the direction of the crisis in the NHS, school funding etc. This is something they're perfectly entitled to do as Brexit isn't the only game in town, or shouldn't be in a General Election. But all the news teams and most of the politicians agree that this is a Brexit election. Labour is still the most trusted party with regards to the NHS even when it's deeply unpopular. But what the public want to know from Labour is what vision it has for Brexit and how it plans to achieve it. Its lack of policy in this direction will, I believe, cost it dearly in the election.

It's up to the electorate to make it about something more than Brexit. Just say no.
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Felafool
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quote:
Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
Meanwhile, there's not one major English party that I have any enthusiasm to vote for. Democracy is dying.

Democracy is dying because there is an elephant in the room - first past the post is not up to the current job. It's fine in a two-party system that encourages binary argument. We no longer have that (if we ever did). Consequently we get a series of governments who have less than half the support of the electorate, and a majority of people who feel their votes do not count. What we need urgently is a fairer representative voting system.

Right now I don't know how to decide who or what I am voting for. In some ways it would be better if the non-Tory MPs rejected today's vote for a snap election and told Mrs May to shut up and get on with the job, but holding her to account. As others have already said, this is unlikely because it would be seen to be an expression of fear of defeat.

I don't feel very positive today [Frown]

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I don't care if the glass is half full or half empty - I ordered a cheeseburger.

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Ian Climacus

Liturgical Slattern
# 944

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I was talking about this with colleagues today...

One said he was in fear of violence during the campaign, with tensions and emotions running high on both sides of the Brexit, and political, divide -- and adding in a good dose of dissatisfaction and resentment too. Do those in the UK see this too? Or do you think it will be relatively peaceful?

Posts: 7241 | From: Albury, Australia | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

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quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
It's up to the electorate to make it about something more than Brexit. Just say no.

Though, the more we vote on issues other than Brexit then the less the result will be a mandate for a particular form of Brexit. Which makes the whole exercise fruitless in terms of uniting the country behind the narrow, racist, xenophobic idiocy that Mrs May is pursuing (not that I want the country united behind that anyway).

At the best, for Mrs May, the election will result in a Tory majority without the risk of that being demolished as police investigations into election expenses lead to MPs standing down in marginal seats. An election now means that Mrs May fights it before the economic impact of Brexit bites, before the reality that negotiations are going to result in a large bill to leave the EU and then further negotiations to create a trade deal becomes so obvious that even the flat earth society couldn't deny it, and before people in marginal seats see their MPs disqualified over election expenses with subsequent by-elections.

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Don't Brexit if you haven't a scooby how to fix it.

Posts: 31799 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Boogie

Boogie on down!
# 13538

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I'm going to have to vote Labour to keep UKip out [Paranoid]

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Garden. Room. Walk

Posts: 12394 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008  |  IP: Logged
betjemaniac
Shipmate
# 17618

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quote:
Originally posted by Ian Climacus:
I was talking about this with colleagues today...

One said he was in fear of violence during the campaign, with tensions and emotions running high on both sides of the Brexit, and political, divide -- and adding in a good dose of dissatisfaction and resentment too. Do those in the UK see this too? Or do you think it will be relatively peaceful?

Genuinely?? Have they been to the UK? Absent the odd nutter there's probably more chance of apathy leading to an all-time low turnout and general national shrug of the shoulders. That's not going to happen either though.

FWIW my prediction is that the overwhelming majority of the UK population will give the whole thing a stiff ignoring until June 8th (until that week most people asked in the street probably won't be able to tell you when the election even is), at which point they'll trundle off to the polling station, write a cross on a piece of paper with a pencil, then go home to Coronation Street. Meanwhile:

-18-24s still won't vote

-Tory voters and pensioners will turn out come hell or high water, because they always do

-The Liberals will talk a good fight and at best triple their representation in Parliament (which would be awesome, if it wasn't also 24 seats)

- an awful lot of people (although interestingly I suspect more people are going to be honest this time round than usual) will tell anyone from the press who asks that they're voting for any party other than the Tories, then in the privacy of the voting booth put their cross down for the blue team like they were always going to

- Labour voters will be even more prone than usual to look out of their window, see a bit of drizzle, and decide not to bother voting

- Come June 9th, the duty Dimbleby will be staring bleary eyed from the TV screen, every psephology wonk in Britain will be in a sort of post-rave slump after an all-night niche interest euphoria, the sun will have come up, and we'll continue to muddle along as we always do.

- acres of trees will be sacrificed for that weekend's newsprint

About the only interesting thing this time round will be that random seats will change colour randomly - while I expect the Tories to win, all sorts of things might go on in the marginals as one party slumps, one surges, and a third comes up the middle - which will see Tory, Lib Dem and Labour taking seats off each other all over the shop regardless of the overall national picture.

TLDR - people will get all exercised on here and other internet fora, idiots like me will stay up all night glued to the BBC, most people will give it a stiff ignoring.

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And is it true? For if it is....

Posts: 1307 | From: behind the dreaming spires | Registered: Mar 2013  |  IP: Logged
Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

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quote:
Originally posted by Ian Climacus:
Or do you think it will be relatively peaceful?

I don't expect to see MPs or candidates getting gunned down in the street. And, UKIP won't be at the front of campaigning threatening violence if they don't get their way. So, yes relatively peaceful. Another Tory victory, especially if it results in a large majority, will be seen as an endorsement of the anti-immigration policies built upon the lies of the far right, and will probably result in a further hike in violence and intimidation of those not deemed to be British enough.

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Don't Brexit if you haven't a scooby how to fix it.

Posts: 31799 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
betjemaniac
Shipmate
# 17618

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quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
I'm going to have to vote Labour to keep UKip out [Paranoid]

Really? I genuinely can't see UKIP winning anywhere. I mean, obviously I'd advise that if it was a real threat but genuinely?

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And is it true? For if it is....

Posts: 1307 | From: behind the dreaming spires | Registered: Mar 2013  |  IP: Logged
rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840

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Ukip were a one trick pony and that bar has been jumped.
Mr and Mrs Angry who have yet to to see immigration blocked may still want to support them, or the BNP.

Let us also not forget that Mrs and Mr Nice still reeling in shock at the Brexit win, having themselves not bothered to vote. They will be out in force to vote for who-knows-wot come June.

Mrs May might not be in for a smooth a ride as she thinks. She is putting all her money on Corbyn's current unpopularity and her own extended honeymoon.

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Change is the only certainty of existence

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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713

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quote:
Originally posted by betjemaniac:
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
I'm going to have to vote Labour to keep UKip out [Paranoid]

Really? I genuinely can't see UKIP winning anywhere. I mean, obviously I'd advise that if it was a real threat but genuinely?
Since UKIP's win on 23rd June 2016, has there been any difference between them and the Tory party?
Posts: 23837 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
betjemaniac
Shipmate
# 17618

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quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
quote:
Originally posted by betjemaniac:
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
I'm going to have to vote Labour to keep UKip out [Paranoid]

Really? I genuinely can't see UKIP winning anywhere. I mean, obviously I'd advise that if it was a real threat but genuinely?
Since UKIP's win on 23rd June 2016, has there been any difference between them and the Tory party?
Well the Tories don't appear to have adopted the lovely UKIP policy of "proper liveries for trains"....

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And is it true? For if it is....

Posts: 1307 | From: behind the dreaming spires | Registered: Mar 2013  |  IP: Logged
Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713

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quote:
Originally posted by betjemaniac:
Well the Tories don't appear to have adopted the lovely UKIP policy of "proper liveries for trains"....

OK, that aside ..... [Biased]

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

Posts: 23837 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768

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I am in a gerrymandered Tory constituency with an MP who was a very good constituency MP but is now a continuing cabinet minister with a responsibility I am not at all supportive of, as a Quaker. I may ask for enlightenment as to party plans for supporting the poor, the disabled, and those who fall through the gaps in the welfare state (or even why they have rewritten the meaning of welfare to be a bad thing). I expect to have no satisfactory answer. He wants money spent on weaponry. No point defending the people from hypothetical attacks when you choose not to defend them from real issues. And when the Prime Minister goes on about being a Christian while ignoring what the founder stated were the markers of His followers.

[ 19. April 2017, 12:25: Message edited by: Penny S ]

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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330

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It appears that the chances of Labour standing against Brexit are almost nil. Sadly.

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my new book: Biblical But Bollocks. Available in all good bookshops.

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Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

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Even the LibDems on the TV news this morning were talking about keeping the UK in the single market and not keeping us in the EU.

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Don't Brexit if you haven't a scooby how to fix it.

Posts: 31799 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713

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quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
It appears that the chances of Labour standing against Brexit are almost nil. Sadly.

If Labour won't stand against a decision made in the heat of the moment on the basis of a campaign based on falsehoods, prejudice and outright lies they won't get my vote. I have grandchildren and I don't want them to grow up disadvantaged by Brexit.

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

Posts: 23837 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713

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quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
Even the LibDems on the TV news this morning were talking about keeping the UK in the single market and not keeping us in the EU.

Are all the parties so craven at the result of that bloody referendum? Has no one any guts?

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

Posts: 23837 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Jane R
Shipmate
# 331

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Alan:
quote:
I don't expect to see MPs or candidates getting gunned down in the street.
I don't either, but it happened last year. [Votive]

[ 19. April 2017, 12:50: Message edited by: Jane R ]

Posts: 3770 | From: Jorvik | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
betjemaniac
Shipmate
# 17618

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quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
Even the LibDems on the TV news this morning were talking about keeping the UK in the single market and not keeping us in the EU.

Are all the parties so craven at the result of that bloody referendum? Has no one any guts?
When it comes down to it, and even with the gains they expect to make in certain seats, the LibDems do need to bear in mind that 25% of 2015 LibDem voters voted Leave.

Someone at LibDem HQ needs to be running the numbers if they aren't already - Vince this morning on BBC R4 ruled out working with Labour post election.

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And is it true? For if it is....

Posts: 1307 | From: behind the dreaming spires | Registered: Mar 2013  |  IP: Logged



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