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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: TechGeek Thread
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
This time really: ![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif)
Laughs tea out his nose.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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balaam
Making an ass of myself
# 4543
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
The pope of hardware sex?
No, software, 3.5" floppy.
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Last ever sig ...
blog
Posts: 9049 | From: Hen Ogledd | Registered: May 2003
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
Ah, yes, microsoft.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
Norton supply what they call a "Smart firewall" in their internet security package. The intention of this, I am led to believe, is to block malicious programs from accessing the internet and sharing your bank details with all and sundry.
What it does on my computer is very smart. It has decided that Google Chrome and Internet Explorer are malicious programs (actually, I could believe that with IE, as the version shipped with Windows 8.1 is even worse than the earlier versions I've had the 'privilege' to use), and so blocks them from accessing the web. Which makes for a very productive internet experience!
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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molopata
The Ship's jack
# 9933
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by IngoB:
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
That is ignorance, stupidity and ideas from years ago. It isn't. Because this is precisely why we use Linux. You get a USB drive put, follow simple directions to put Linux Mint on it. Follow simple directions to boot from USB. Then run from the USB with out installing as long as you like. You can install later. There is no power user. Just something simple. I mention Linux Mint because it is the most Windows like.
Yadda, yadda. [DEATH TO LINUX!!!]
Ingo, have actually ever seriously tried to use a recent version of Linux?
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... The Respectable
Posts: 1718 | From: the abode of my w@ndering mind | Registered: Aug 2005
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Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894
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Posted
Got a virus? Thumb drive with Puppy.
Hate distractions? Thumb drive with Puppy.
Work at multiple computers and like consistency? Thumb drive with Puppy.
Can't stand Windows 8 or that Godawful useless new version of Word one more day? Thumb drive with Puppy.
Ancient, creeky computer with NT you got stuck with won't run a browser gmail recognizes as one that it does, in fact, work with? Thumb drive with Puppy.
Awful, worthless, lazy, incompetent, stupid boss who takes credit for work you did (unpaid, by the way) while he was napping/chatting on facebook/shopping on eBay? Boot CD with Puppy goes in when he goes home at 3, feign ignorance when he comes in after 10.
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“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.
Posts: 6849 | From: The People's Republic of Balcones | Registered: Jan 2006
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
Actually, I think the core problem is that computers are programmed by idiots who think that changing the interface every few years is a good idea. Windows 8 is a case in point.
Please. Loads of users uttered the whinge "MS never changes! Win 3 to 7 are just variations. MS can't do innovation" when they do, everyone cries" OMG! They changed! Why did they change?!"
Win 8 isn't perfect, but it is the best cross desktop/touchscreen/mobile interface on the market. Needs work but is better and more innovative (on mobile)than apple or android. It is an actual interface, not merely a container for icons.
Difficult to learn? My nephew, who learned computers on Win 7 had no difficulty switching to Win 8. He also has no problem with Linux. Children, IME, have no problems switching. I wonder what the true hardware/software problem is?
quote:
The interface changed dramatically, all in aid of making your computer look like an unpopular cellphone.
I have an iPhone for one reason. Apps. And that is the reason Windows phones aren't popular. Microsoft don't seem to get that. And because they also don't get, with minor exception, advertising.
Apple get advertising, that is their true genius. Their famous 1984 commercial, though, is hilarious. The mindless, hypnotised drones watching the screen? Those are Apple devotes. The Windows users are outside, Driving to work.*
I'm no Microsoft cheerleader, I've a long list of complaints as well. But they do get things right, sometimes. And Win 8 has was a step in the right direction.
*The Linux users? You can't see them. They are busy creating a small, parallel society underground. Occasionally popping up to roam the streets caring signs upon which are printed the words "Repent oh Ye Users of the Commercial OS! The Linux is Nigh"!
The girl with the hammer? ![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif) She is imaginary. She is the embodiment of the fantasy each different OS user has of themselves.
[ 18. May 2015, 15:38: Message edited by: lilBuddha ]
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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IngoB
Sentire cum Ecclesia
# 8700
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by molopata:
Ingo, have actually ever seriously tried to use a recent version of Linux?
Depends on what you mean by "recent", and what you mean by "use". I use Linux frequently, but "command line" on HPC systems. I haven't tried installing a Linux system for personal "desktop" usage in about five years. But this is a university, it's not like you don't see Linux desktop installs around.
Anyway, I've been into computing long enough to have heard all the many wonderful things you may wish to claim about the Linux desktop. They haven't made a difference concerning adoption then, they will not make a difference now. We can have the same stupid discussion in five years again, because the Linux desktop isn't going to reach critical mass through people like you or me. It would need a serious big player push. And soon. Because personally speaking, now that I can install most free software from Linux with MacPorts / Fink / Homebrew under OS X, my motivation to mess around with Linux has dropped near zero. Indeed, quite a few top programs (like GIMP, VLC, Kodi, ...) now run native on OS X.
A lot of the academics / students that used to have a dual boot Win / Linux now run around with a Mac laptop. They still need to VM or Bootcamp Win, but for the most part they do not need Linux to do "Unix stuff" any longer, nor do they need it to run "free" software. The only good thing for the Linux desktop of late has been Valve committing to SteamOS. Maybe an influx of gamers will make difference...
The only other thing (besides a big player push) that IMHO could turn the tables is some major privacy breach or some really crippling DRM from Apple or Microsoft. Since business interests dominate for them, it is possible that they will greedily over-milk their cash cow until it dies. But look just how death-resistant Win has proven to be. Microsoft really has to ram a stake through Win's heart, and chop off its head, and spray the remains with silver bullets from a Gatling gun to destroy their market share.
[ 18. May 2015, 15:53: Message edited by: IngoB ]
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They’ll have me whipp’d for speaking true; thou’lt have me whipp’d for lying; and sometimes I am whipp’d for holding my peace. - The Fool in King Lear
Posts: 12010 | From: Gone fishing | Registered: Oct 2004
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
quote:
ingbo
I haven't tried installing a Linux system for personal "desktop" usage in about five years.
So you don't know what you are talking about. Ignorant nutter gives bogus opinion.
[ 18. May 2015, 21:01: Message edited by: no prophet's flag is set so... ]
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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IngoB
Sentire cum Ecclesia
# 8700
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
So you don't know what you are talking about. Ignorant nutter gives bogus opinion.
So what part of what I wrote above is actually affected by my last install having been Kubuntu about five years ago? What would make all the difference if I had installed say contemporary Linux Mint yesterday?
Here's another problem for Linux: I used to install Linux on machines as their "final hoorah", when the next version of Win would just be too much. But the hardware race is very much slowing down. How often is there a need to buy a new computer nowadays to run one's software? Even games are not pushing the hardware envelope as strongly as before, but do you really think that a PC that can run Win 7 will not be able to handle Win 10? And Win 10 will be a free upgrade for Win 7/8 users...
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They’ll have me whipp’d for speaking true; thou’lt have me whipp’d for lying; and sometimes I am whipp’d for holding my peace. - The Fool in King Lear
Posts: 12010 | From: Gone fishing | Registered: Oct 2004
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
Oh sorry. You know everything about it. Obviously you know what you are on about.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Thyme
Shipmate
# 12360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Win 8 isn't perfect, but it is the best cross desktop/touchscreen/mobile interface on the market. Needs work but is better and more innovative (on mobile)than apple or android. It is an actual interface, not merely a container for icons.
Difficult to learn? My nephew, who learned computers on Win 7 had no difficulty switching to Win 8. He also has no problem with Linux. Children, IME, have no problems switching. I wonder what the true hardware/software problem is?
Thank you lilBuddha, I thought liking Windows especially 8 and 8.1 was my personal shameful secret. I do like it. And for my purposes their Surface range of tablet/laptop hybrids are miles better than an ipad.
I like Office 365 as well. I tried Open Office and as soon as I asked it to do something a bit more complicated than writing a document and printing it it gave up. Having spent hours and hours trying to make it do this task I got Office 365 and it did the task in a few minutes.
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The Church in its own bubble has become, at best the guardian of the value system of the nation’s grandparents, and at worst a den of religious anoraks defined by defensiveness, esoteric logic and discrimination. Bishop of Buckingham's blog
Posts: 600 | From: Cloud Cuckoo Land | Registered: Feb 2007
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Thyme:
Thank you lilBuddha,
*%$#^@!!! Was hoping to piss people off.
quote:
Originally posted by Thyme:
I thought liking Windows especially 8 and 8.1 was my personal shameful secret. I do like it. And for my purposes their Surface range of tablet/laptop hybrids are miles better than an ipad.
The Surface tablets are brilliant! The newest tablet version is a real hybrid, not a giant smartphone without the phone bit. And the Surface Pro is a terrific convertible computer. Microsoft hardware product development team really do get it. The Zune was an under-appreciated item as well.
Suck it iFruit zombies! Without the Zune, your iPod would be shite. It had better fidelity, better video, more format choice and a better interface. Horrible name and marketing. Really MS, where in the Hell do you hire your marketing team?
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Win 8 isn't perfect, but it is the best cross desktop/touchscreen/mobile interface on the market.
This might be true. But I don't want a cross-desktop/mobile interface. A desktop is fundamentally a different interface from a phone / touchscreen. (A TV / media center thing is pretty similar to a phone, though).
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
Was, grandfather, was.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
I don't WANT a tablet style interface on my desktop. Way too much sliding, scrolling, whatever, and not arranged logically anyway. If you do work that requires you to have a dozen programs open in 5 minutes time, that's a royal pain in the ass. Now if I were just playing around, or had to do with a single program, I could see the attraction.
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
I don't WANT a tablet style interface on my desktop.
LCs of the world unite ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Was, grandfather, was.
Ooh, look at you being all young and edgy.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Was, grandfather, was.
Ooh, look at you being all young and edgy.
Not edgy, just not so near the grave that I clutch anything familiar to avoid falling in.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Thyme:
I thought liking Windows especially 8 and 8.1 was my personal shameful secret. I do like it.
I've got Win 8.1 on my laptop (which I use functionally as a desktop anyway), and it's not a problem to use. And, putting all the programs I use in a nice thematic arrangement on the apps screen makes opening up a different program much easier than on Win XP and 7 (where, if you hadn't used it recently you had to go through a menu structure of "All Programs" then usually what you want is within a subfolder after then. It was a bit of a faff with a mouse, next to impossible with the pointer thingy on a laptop or a touch screen. It's so easy to hit the WIndows button on the keyboard and then just click on the icon of the program I want, even with the built in 'mouse' on the laptop.
The only problem is that they didn't incorporate backwards compatibility for some devices. I use several devices with a PL2303 chip in them, work fine in Win7 but no driver for Win8 - I don't know why the Win7 driver can't be supported in Win8.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Was, grandfather, was.
Ooh, look at you being all young and edgy.
Not edgy, just not so near the grave that I clutch anything familiar to avoid falling in.
I don't think my 13-year-old nephew likes Windows 8.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Amorya
Ship's tame galoot
# 2652
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jengie jon:
Actually the big problem is most of the programmers whether Windows or Mac do not use the interface. They are programmers, they write code. I would not mind betting a good number of them had a very unfriendly form of linux on their machine.
That's not fair! Most programmers use the system they develop for.
You want someone to blame for programs that are hard and illogical to use? Blame clients who want it done next week, and then change their mind on what 'it' is on Thursday. Blame project managers who go along with that rather than push back, and then tell their developers to work overtime for a while to make it happen. Blame everyone who promises to work miracles on crazy deadlines, then delivers something half-arsed. Blame anyone who doesn't know the difference between a graphic designer and an interaction designer, and commissions the former to do the latter's job.
Blame programmers in general, for not forming a union, gaining some professional pride, and telling their bosses that it is unreasonable to demand the impossible. But don't blame any one individual programmer — fighting against this industry alone would be a quick way to get fired!
It sucks to deliver a bad, rushed, cobbled together app. But the situation wasn't set up by the programmer. It's like blaming the cashier because the you don't like the range of merchandise in a shop.
Posts: 2383 | From: Coventry | Registered: Apr 2002
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
Well I can tell you seriously that a lot of re-writing of the student registration system happened the year after we put the programmers who wrote it on the registration desks. They were there because we desperately needed people to work on the desks, not so they would get to use the system.
Jengie
[ 20. May 2015, 14:28: Message edited by: Jengie jon ]
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"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
Back to my blog
Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
Response to Amorya:
Well, no. Not to say all the problems you state don't exist, they do. Just that programmers, left to their own devices, would not develop some wonderful, user-friendly interface.
Not saying they are more fucked up than any other part of the system, just that they are not less.
[ 20. May 2015, 14:33: Message edited by: lilBuddha ]
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Amorya:
quote:
Originally posted by Jengie jon:
Actually the big problem is most of the programmers whether Windows or Mac do not use the interface. They are programmers, they write code. I would not mind betting a good number of them had a very unfriendly form of linux on their machine.
That's not fair! Most programmers use the system they develop for.
You want someone to blame for programs that are hard and illogical to use? Blame clients who want it done next week, and then change their mind on what 'it' is on Thursday. Blame project managers who go along with that rather than push back, and then tell their developers to work overtime for a while to make it happen. Blame everyone who promises to work miracles on crazy deadlines, then delivers something half-arsed. Blame anyone who doesn't know the difference between a graphic designer and an interaction designer, and commissions the former to do the latter's job.
Blame programmers in general, for not forming a union, gaining some professional pride, and telling their bosses that it is unreasonable to demand the impossible. But don't blame any one individual programmer — fighting against this industry alone would be a quick way to get fired!
It sucks to deliver a bad, rushed, cobbled together app. But the situation wasn't set up by the programmer. It's like blaming the cashier because the you don't like the range of merchandise in a shop.
Not so fast. It's programmers who write software that demands write access to protected areas of the file system at run time. It's programmers who write software that cannot cope with a move of a file data store without a reinstallation of the entire app. God knows why, unless they enjoy making life hell for system admins and forcing insecure configurations for their crap to run.
[ 20. May 2015, 14:37: Message edited by: Karl: Liberal Backslider ]
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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Amorya
Ship's tame galoot
# 2652
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
Not so fast. It's programmers who write software that demands write access to protected areas of the file system at run time. It's programmers who write software that cannot cope with a move of a file data store without a reinstallation of the entire app. God knows why, unless they enjoy making life hell for system admins and forcing insecure configurations for their crap to run.
And I'd wager for every one of those, there was an awkward conversation with a manager:
"We need that data file loading code finished this week! What's it's status?"
"It's mostly working, but we need to make sure it can cope with moving the file without having to reinstall the app."
"How long will that take?"
"I'm not sure… a couple of days?"
"That's too long. How many customers are likely to move data files about?"
"Erm…"
"1%? 10?"
"More like 1%. But…"
"Leave it, it's not important. We'll come back to it for version 2."
*programmer goes back to desk, well aware that nobody will ever revisit this for version 2, but that there are more important things to push back on, such as how the login flow currently rejects anyone with accented characters in their name.*
Posts: 2383 | From: Coventry | Registered: Apr 2002
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
Good gods, this is all so bullshit I don't know who to deride first.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Amorya:
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
Not so fast. It's programmers who write software that demands write access to protected areas of the file system at run time. It's programmers who write software that cannot cope with a move of a file data store without a reinstallation of the entire app. God knows why, unless they enjoy making life hell for system admins and forcing insecure configurations for their crap to run.
And I'd wager for every one of those, there was an awkward conversation with a manager:
"We need that data file loading code finished this week! What's it's status?"
"It's mostly working, but we need to make sure it can cope with moving the file without having to reinstall the app."
"How long will that take?"
"I'm not sure… a couple of days?"
"That's too long. How many customers are likely to move data files about?"
"Erm…"
"1%? 10?"
"More like 1%. But…"
"Leave it, it's not important. We'll come back to it for version 2."
*programmer goes back to desk, well aware that nobody will ever revisit this for version 2, but that there are more important things to push back on, such as how the login flow currently rejects anyone with accented characters in their name.*
Why worry? Is anyone ever going to test the bloody thing before it goes live? No, they wait until it fails, usually last thing Friday then get in a panic demanding an even more hurried fix (plus the head of John the Baptist on a plate).
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
Whatever the platform, i.e., the operating system, the future should be interoperability. Things should just go. If you want to tinker you should be able to, but there should be no requirement to do so.
I like the open source model of software as well. Which is free as in beer. If something does not run right, others can tinker with it and fix it.
My office software and hardware costs have gone from ~$10K per year to less than $1000 by running everything open source and not caring what devices or operating systems people want to us. Security is taken care of by one-time passwords.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Stercus Tauri
Shipmate
# 16668
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
[QUOTE]
...Difficult to learn? My nephew, who learned computers on Win 7 had no difficulty switching to Win 8. He also has no problem with Linux. Children, IME, have no problems switching. .
Children do not, or ought not to, use the computer for their daily employment - they play with them. Being forced to take several days out of work without notice, with people waiting for you to learn a new system, and then finding that some of your critical software will no longer run is as stupid and unnecessary as disabling the engine in your car because the manufacturer wants to sell you a new one before you have any need for it. The computer is a power tool, confound it, a domestic appliance, not an end in itself.
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Thay haif said. Quhat say thay, Lat thame say (George Keith, 5th Earl Marischal)
Posts: 905 | From: On the traditional lands of the Six Nations. | Registered: Sep 2011
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Amorya:
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
Not so fast. It's programmers who write software that demands write access to protected areas of the file system at run time. It's programmers who write software that cannot cope with a move of a file data store without a reinstallation of the entire app. God knows why, unless they enjoy making life hell for system admins and forcing insecure configurations for their crap to run.
And I'd wager for every one of those, there was an awkward conversation with a manager:
"We need that data file loading code finished this week! What's it's status?"
"It's mostly working, but we need to make sure it can cope with moving the file without having to reinstall the app."
"How long will that take?"
"I'm not sure… a couple of days?"
"That's too long. How many customers are likely to move data files about?"
"Erm…"
"1%? 10?"
"More like 1%. But…"
"Leave it, it's not important. We'll come back to it for version 2."
*programmer goes back to desk, well aware that nobody will ever revisit this for version 2, but that there are more important things to push back on, such as how the login flow currently rejects anyone with accented characters in their name.*
That excuse might just wash for the data directory move, but there's no excuse for writing code that demands write access to HKLM\Software or %PROGRAMFILES%\ at run time in the first place. Just don't. Ever.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Stercus Tauri:
Children do not, or ought not to, use the computer for their daily employment - they play with them. Being forced to take several days out of work without notice, with people waiting for you to learn a new system,
Hire people who are less stupid. Seriously, it isn't rocket surgery.
And your currently beloved OS faced the same change in the past. People survived.
quote:
Originally posted by Stercus Tauri:
and then finding that some of your critical software will no longer run
OK, it is annoying when the software you have won't run on the new OS. And sometimes it is the fault of the OS. But forever needing to support legacy shite is one thing that keeps MS in the past and causes many, many, many problems.
And again, users users have been complaining for years about lack of real change and bugs and patches.
quote:
Originally posted by Stercus Tauri:
is as stupid and unnecessary as disabling the engine in your car because the manufacturer wants to sell you a new one before you have any need for it.
The flip side of this is you would be still knapping flint with antler bone and binding it to a stick with rawhide strips if your philosophy prevailed.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
There may have been a very good set of reasons why people went on knapping flint long after the introduction of metal tools. Which they did.
Heck, I still use unknapped flint up the garden if I can't find a purpose made tool to hand. Probably not a good argument, that one, though, because it's to do with my wanting the job done now this minute and not wanting to put everything down and go and find the tool. Laziness in other words. My garden is over full of flints. Some of which someone seems to have worked on for me, though not to museum standard.
But back in the past, reasons would have included:
1. Flint was sharper.
2. Flint did the job better.
3. Individual users could produce their own tools without having to go to the supplier (the smith) for a new one.
4. Individual users could maintain their own tools without having to go to technical support (the smith again).
5. Flint was cheaper.
6. Flint was not constantly being redesigned, superseding the previous version and requiring completely new skills. It was possible, until truly modern man came along, to use the same design successfully for thousands of years. And even then, no-one would insist that you immediately adopted the new cutting edge version in order for consistency across the region.
7. Flint did not result in all tool supply being monopolised by a few producers who controlled what you could use.
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
And yet, we are communicating on computers, not passing messages through traveling merchants.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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anoesis
Shipmate
# 14189
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Amorya:
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
Not so fast. It's programmers who write software that demands write access to protected areas of the file system at run time. It's programmers who write software that cannot cope with a move of a file data store without a reinstallation of the entire app. God knows why, unless they enjoy making life hell for system admins and forcing insecure configurations for their crap to run.
And I'd wager for every one of those, there was an awkward conversation with a manager:
"We need that data file loading code finished this week! What's it's status?"
"It's mostly working, but we need to make sure it can cope with moving the file without having to reinstall the app."
"How long will that take?"
"I'm not sure… a couple of days?"
"That's too long. How many customers are likely to move data files about?"
"Erm…"
"1%? 10?"
"More like 1%. But…"
"Leave it, it's not important. We'll come back to it for version 2."
*programmer goes back to desk, well aware that nobody will ever revisit this for version 2, but that there are more important things to push back on, such as how the login flow currently rejects anyone with accented characters in their name.*
I can attest to this, vicariously. My partner is a software development manager and has worked for several companies who are marketing products for which you would think "It works - all the time" would be an absolutely critical specification, but no, as far as I can tell, the only thing that prevails in the minds of bean-counters are - well, beans. He has reached a point where he is perpetually stressed out and unhappy, and as far as I can tell, the major contributors to this are a.) as a technical person, extreme discomfort with having accept things being done badly in a technical sense, and b.) as a manager, extreme discomfort with having to ask/require/encourage other technical people to lower their standards and just get on and do things quickly and shoddily. And then c.) having to put in considerable work to shore up all the poor morale that this approach causes among technical people. It's so utterly fucked up it's almost more fucked up than working for a quasi-governmental institution in which everything happens unimaginably slowly because even though practically everyone working in the place has a higher degree, no-one can so much as crack their thumbs without consulting a policy manual, which is a reasonable description of my own place of work.
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The history of humanity give one little hope that strength left to its own devices won't be abused. Indeed, it gives one little ground to think that strength would continue to exist if it were not abused. -- Dafyd --
Posts: 993 | From: New Zealand | Registered: Oct 2008
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Stercus Tauri
Shipmate
# 16668
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
quote:
Originally posted by Stercus Tauri:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Stercus Tauri:
[qb]
is as stupid and unnecessary as disabling the engine in your car because the manufacturer wants to sell you a new one before you have any need for it.
The flip side of this is you would be still knapping flint with antler bone and binding it to a stick with rawhide strips if your philosophy prevailed.
Note the key phrase:
...the manufacturer wants to sell you a new one before you have any need for it.
I am not so stupid that I can't recognise the need for a more capable tool for the job that I want to do, but I prefer to make that decision for myself - as I have done many times - and not have it forced on me at a time when work will be seriously disrupted.
The concept of real work and delivering real things to real customers in real time is difficult to explain to people whose gods are software companies and computers that can only be satisfied with living sacrifices.
But you can ignore all this. I'll get over it - until next time.
(We haven't got any flint around here. It's mostly limestone where it isn't gravel beds, so we have to make do with the antlers and bones).
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Thay haif said. Quhat say thay, Lat thame say (George Keith, 5th Earl Marischal)
Posts: 905 | From: On the traditional lands of the Six Nations. | Registered: Sep 2011
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
Here's a question.
Who is forcing you to get a new computer? If you are satisfied with the one you have got, if it runs the software you rely on, you're familiar with the OS etc, why change?
If you get new work that requires a particular piece of software that needs a computer with more resources, a particular OS etc then get that computer. It doesn't stop you continuing to use the old one - at least for the period of time it takes you to port stuff over to the new one with minimal disruption.
OK, there are issues of maintaining older computers. The steam driven 486s running some instruments we have are probably at the end of their maintainability - getting replacement parts to keep them going is getting difficult. But, that's probably an extreme example.
But, if you insist on getting the latest OS as soon as it's released and upgrading all your software every few months ... well, if that's what you want then you will have to live with the inconvenience that causes. On the other hand, Windows XP didn't stop working just because Microsoft stopped issuing updates.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Stercus Tauri
Shipmate
# 16668
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Posted
I'd been hanging on to an HP desktop that had a Pentium or equivalent, and it ran like a train with XP, flawlessly, for ages. There were eventually hardware problems that had to be fixed when some motherboard electrolytic capacitors visibly began to fail, but the real problems started when I had to install XP SP3 to be able to use Office 2010, and then numerous functions failed. It was odd that both XP machines that I used (the other is a netbook) began to behave erratically after continuing XP updates and neither would boot up normally or keep running. So a new machine was essential, meaning having to use W7, and henceforth my familiar CAD program and a number of others in daily use malfunctioned or ceased to function at all. There really wasn't any way to go back and recreate the old machine and I had no wish to do so, but this is why I am so aggravated at having the timing taken out of my own hands.
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Thay haif said. Quhat say thay, Lat thame say (George Keith, 5th Earl Marischal)
Posts: 905 | From: On the traditional lands of the Six Nations. | Registered: Sep 2011
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
On the other hand, Windows XP didn't stop working just because Microsoft stopped issuing updates.
No, but there's reason they issue security patches on the operating systems they are supporting, and there are potential negative consequences to continuing to run a OS which they are no longer supporting. Google is still supporting Chrome for XP, but that will stop at the end of this year. A non-tech-savvy person should not at this point be running XP on a computer hooked up to the internet.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
So why don't they deliver software that doesn't need security patches in the first place?
I am still using XP on a netbook and a laptop, both of which have no problems online (both have up-to-date antivirus etc). The netbook could not run with SP3 as it filled up the C: drive (which was not a partition, before anyone mentions that) with that and all the updates, and then wouldn't work. So it's on SP2 and not all of the available updates, which it has squirreled away somewhere but I prevent it from installing. And it's fine.
It should have been Linux, but I was in the middle of work when my laptop needed repair and I didn't have time to learn a new OS, so I got the XP version instead.
I have a number of things which will only talk to XP - I really don't see why I should have to "upgrade" to something that doesn't do what I want it to do and which the old stuff does, just because someone somewhere wants to sell me a whole new suite of kit. And the more tech-savvy people become pensioners, but want to go on doing computery stuff, the more people are going to complain about having to spend money they don't have to keep on doing what they have been doing just fine.
And yes, I agree that that new microlith device is just brilliant for trimming sinews for sewing clothes, but it is going to take ages to try and cut up that mammoth with it.
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
So why don't they deliver software that doesn't need security patches in the first place?
Because no-one, no, not even Linux' developers, has yet managed to create such an OS.
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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Amazing Grace
High Church Protestant
# 95
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
So why don't they deliver software that doesn't need security patches in the first place?
Because no-one, no, not even Linux' developers, has yet managed to create such an OS.
And in the unlikely event that it should happen, it will probably just be temporary anyway till someone finds a hole.
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WTFWED? "Remember to always be yourself, unless you suck" - the Gator
Memory Eternal! Sheep 3, Phil the Wise Guy, and Jesus' Evil Twin in the SoF Nativity Play
Posts: 6593 | From: Sittin' by the dock of the [SF] bay | Registered: Jul 2003
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
So why don't they deliver software that doesn't need security patches in the first place?
Because if people only bought one version and no updates then manufacturers would go out of business.
The whole thing is a rat-race. It's designed to keep you constantly spending: more and more increasingly bloated software at relatively frequent intervals, download lots of updates, until your computer can no longer handle it, so buy a new computer, and get a new operating system. Spend, spend, spend. You can only hold out for so long before the error messages flash up - "You're using an out of date version of [Something]. You won't be able to access our site/download whatever/open these files/do whatever you want until you shell out a lot more money for a new version which you probably won't like."
They could, with some care, produce versions that last longer. They just don't want to.
I'm getting sick of glowing screens, clattering keyboards, endless tiny mouse movements, a surplus of logons and passwords that all have to be changed at frequent intervals, clicking on tiny Xs, buttons that say "OK", pages that hang, stupid and unnecessary timeouts on things that don't need it, menus that begin options with "My...", and constant updates.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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balaam
Making an ass of myself
# 4543
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
So why don't they deliver software that doesn't need security patches in the first place?
Because if people only bought one version and no updates then manufacturers would go out of business.
[snip]
I'm getting sick of glowing screens, clattering keyboards, endless tiny mouse movements, a surplus of logons and passwords that all have to be changed at frequent intervals, clicking on tiny Xs, buttons that say "OK", pages that hang, stupid and unnecessary timeouts on things that don't need it, menus that begin options with "My...", and constant updates.
At work we are still on Office 2003, everything we use is there, and the IT dept sees to maintenance.
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Last ever sig ...
blog
Posts: 9049 | From: Hen Ogledd | Registered: May 2003
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
I'm still running Office 2003, with the Office 2007 compatibility pack on a Windows 7 Home Premium laptop, and everything is fine. I see no reason to upgrade from Office 2003. I did try Office 2007 but hated it and put 2003 back on. The laptop came with Office 2010 -- it just has to be "activated" (and paid for, of course) but I see no reason to do so.
[ 21. May 2015, 20:37: Message edited by: Amanda B. Reckondwythe ]
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
And I hate ads that follow up on places I have been looking at. And now I don't know how they are doing it. I don't use Google. I don't use IE. I use Firefox and DuckDuckGo, and I can't find anything that works like whatever I did in IE and Google to stop it. Except deleting a load of cookies one at a time. I don't want to delete all of them, obviously. There were a suspicious number with "ad" in them. I'd like them never to arrive.
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
Many years ago there was an amusing bit of comedy about what it'd be like if any other industry tried to sell you things that weren't quite ready yet or needed continued 'upgrades', the way that computer folk do.
I think they used cars as an analogy. Although of course one does maintenance on a car, that's not quite the same as either "we'll add doors later" or "we'll keep putting so many extra features on your car each time we service it that eventually you'll need a bigger engine".
I was mightily pissed off when I upgraded my iPhone to iOS 7. Look at all the exciting extra bits of motion! The lurid colours! All the stuff that hasn't actually changed the functionality, but is making my old phone struggle to keep up!
I found out later that a number of reviews had recommended not upgrading to iOS7 on my model of phone, even though Apple offered the upgrade. But of course by then it was too late.
My phone is now slightly over 4 years old. I'm planning on buying a new one soon. But occasionally I remember that my old one might not have some of its current problems if not for the 'helpful' upgrade it received.
[ 22. May 2015, 03:06: Message edited by: orfeo ]
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Many years ago there was an amusing bit of comedy about what it'd be like if any other industry tried to sell you things that weren't quite ready yet or needed continued 'upgrades', the way that computer folk do.
I think they used cars as an analogy. Although of course one does maintenance on a car, that's not quite the same as either "we'll add doors later" or "we'll keep putting so many extra features on your car each time we service it that eventually you'll need a bigger engine".
It's here.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
Re MS Office. There's no reason to use any versions of paid office word processing or office suit of products. LibreOffice.org provides no cost opensource that runs on my business's server just fine. They wanted some $600 per user yearly licensing costs for MS products which is a lot of cash if you've many users. You can save in the xml docx versions of documents in Libreoffice if you want but the documents are up to 30% larger from odt which is open document format. MS products will open odt. OpenOffice is the closed source version of the same office suite.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
I've got OpenOffice installed on this computer (personal, so no one else to pay for MS Office). It does some really strange things opening PowerPoint files and Word documents (especially .docx ones). OK, so if someone sends me a .docx by email I can read it ... but the result isn't pretty. Plain text is OK, just don't insert a figure, table or equation.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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