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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Hell: Depression
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
Not sure whether this thread should be here or in All Saints: I'm fed up with intermittent fits of depression, but I also want to give a little encouragement to other people who get it as well, and there seem to be quite a few of us on the ship at present.
And by encouragement I emphatically don't mean telling anyone "There's light at the end of the tunnel", or "hang on in there" or "something will turn up" or "don't lose hope". I hate well-meaning platitudes. Sometimes the reasons for depression are precisely because there is no hope. There are some things in life you simply can't do anything about. You can't turn the clock back, bring the dead back to life, forget about a broken heart, or press a delete button to cancel out a chronic or terminal illness. Life isn't like that. Depression can be about having to accept the unacceptable just as much as a physical thing perhaps caused by stress, or tiredness, or a hormonal cycle or illness, or even just a serotonin deficiency.
Just don't give me crap about hoping for hope's sake. And don't just tell me that I'm being silly, dismiss me with "oh, you're just in a mood again", or tell me to snap out of it. Believe me if I could switch it off I would. It's no pleasure to me to struggle to suppress tears or to have my confidence plummet to the point where I can't face social contact or even write emails. I know I'm a bore during these times, I don't need to be told so. I just want people to behave as normal, not try to jolly me out of it and not just write me off. Depression is an isolating thing and this kind of reaction doesn't help.
So if this strikes a chord with anyone else out there - come and sound off. If you've found anything that helps (other than medication) someone else out there might find it useful too.
[ 25. April 2003, 16:04: Message edited by: sarkycow ]
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Garden Hermit
Shipmate
# 109
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Posted
I've suffered with 'depression' at various stages throughout my life. However the term means different things to different people.
I had to accept failing my exams at the end of first year at University. Incredibly hard. Self-esteem totally gone. But looking back, it wasn't depression. No magic solution. Just having to learn to accept the unnacceptable.
Similarly when my first wife walked out 25 years ago. No magic solution. Look at your own faults, (faults ? Do I have faults ?) and move on. Difficult ? Yes. Learning once again to accept the unnacceptable.
Learnt to limit my expectations of both myself and life.
But about 5 years ago on a computer course my brain just couldn't follow it. This was followed by huge anxiety attacks, sleeplessness, a horrow of having to get out of bed. Meltdown. Yes this was depression.
And only the week before I had boasted that I fitted 3 times as much into my life as everyone else.
Now I do half as much. I don't go out to meetings at nighttime, I walk on my own in the Woods. potter in the Garden or listen to Classical CDs. And I learnt to pray..
Please Lord look after me for the next 12 hours. Just 12 hours Lord. Please get me through the next night, the next day.
I'm balanced now. No more pills. (They were awful, Prozac was the worst.)
But Hell it was and I'm very scared that I might go back there one day.
Pax et Bonum
Posts: 1413 | From: Reading UK | Registered: May 2001
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IntellectByProxy
Larger than you think
# 3185
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Posted
The worst thing anyone ever said to me when I was depressed was "You'll snap out of it eventually"
Nobody who isn't depressed can understand what it's like to be depressed. And even now with my last serious manic episode 2 years behind me, I am starting to forget what it was like and descend to the realms of platitudes and stereotypes of myself.
Prozac didn't work, company didn't work, solitude didn't work and I still don't know what kept me going. I still have dark moments of paralysing fear when I get into old situations and every time I get through those situations without depression arising I should feel like I've beaten it for good. But I don't.
The only thing that helped me was the realisation one day that loads of people felt exactly the way I did. If I had to be like that, at least other people were suffering too. What a nasty thing to feel. There was no solidarity in it.
Read Prozac Nation, by Elizabeth Wurtzel.
If you're depressed it gives words to your feelings.
If you're not depressed it helps you begin to see what depression can be.
Just having someone who doesn't try to explain it, doesn't try to comfort you, doesn't try to snap you out of it, doesn't try to understand you, but who doesn't run when all you want to do is scream and dig your nails into your arms and sit on the floor in a corner crying and punching the wall and hoping against hope that tomorrow you just don't wake up...well...that might help too.
Jason
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www.zambiadiaries.blogspot.com
Posts: 3482 | From: The opposite | Registered: Aug 2002
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Celaino
Apprentice
# 3913
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Posted
As GH said, everyone's experience is different, but what I've found helpful for intermittent plunges into depression is joining something which happens/meets regularly. I've found that sticking to doing something regularly - even when it's been the last thing I wanted to do - helps to even out the ups and downs, and provides a fixed point in the week to hang on to. I know this won't work for everyone, but for me building on how I feel during good periods carries over into the bad. It's not about going out and being the world's most sociable person, I certainly spend a great deal of time on my own, but having somewhere where you're recognised and needed can help immeasurably.
The above requires a certain amount of determination, and that in itself can make you stronger.
Love and sympathy to all here.
Posts: 23 | From: Oxford | Registered: Jan 2003
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flev
Shipmate
# 3187
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Posted
Thankfully my own experience seems to have been a relatively mild dose, compared with what others are saying, but I still get scared at the idea it might occur again.
I found two things that helped me get through it all. The first was finding an activity that I enjoyed doing, and that I had a small degree of responsibility for (please note the emphasis on small i.e. manageable). Then, when the worst phases came, and I reached the stage when I was trying to find reasons why I should try and hang on and keep on living, I felt needed by someone, and that to me was a very strong anchor - the thought that at least to them I had some worth. Friends trying to tell me that I had 'worth' to them didn't seem to be concrete enough - but for some reason, the fact I was turning up regularly to a playgroup to help amuse the kids did. (I'm not suggesting this precise activity, but I happen to love kids!).
Secondly, as IBP said, having someone, anyone around, who didn't try to talk me out of my feelings, but was prepared just to be there with me when I needed them.
flev
Posts: 402 | From: Right in the middle | Registered: Aug 2002
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Genie
Shipmate
# 3282
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Posted
At the risk of being entirely unhellish and potentially pissing off everyone else, I have to say that there may well be <simpering platitude> light at the end of the tunnel </simpering platitude> - it all depends on how you define 'light'. And I guess on how you define 'tunnel' as well.
I've always been a quiet person, but during my teenage years and most intensely in my A level years, I was very withdrawn and sullen, terrified of situations where I might have to be in the presence of other people. I could barely tolerate my imediate family, and school itself was torture. I hated myself most of all, and was engaged in a variety of self-destructive behaviours: self harm, anorexia, deliberatly stepping out into the road without looking, driving too fast etc etc etc. After the not-eating thing got too far and I started fainting in unfortunate situations (such as when someone else was watching) my parents forced me to see a doctor and I was diagnosed with endogenous (ie 'coming from inside' as opposed to 'reactionary to external events') depression and social phobia. Despite seeing a doctor, a social worker and a psychiatrist all on a weekly basis and taking various anti-depressants, I got worse. At one point the psyche tried to have me sectioned, but my parents wouldn't let him. (I was still barely a minor, so my parents were able to overrule the doctors)
I still can't pin down the point when things started improving. I was certainly the last person to notice. It certainly didn't happen on meeting my fiance, although that might have been a factor in things. It certainly wasn't leaving school or joining the wonderful world of work (if I hadn't had depression, I would be graduating from university this year). I'd like to say it was my faith, but that would be a lie since at the time I was pretty much as atheistic as they come. Something changed, and slowly but surely things didn't seem quite so bad anymore. I'm still at the mercy of chance and forces I can't control, and all the problems are still there - but somehow they don't overwhelm me any more. I began taking things one step at a time, controlling those things I could control, and slowly learning to let the rest slide without panicking. Some days all I could manage was having a bath and watching TV all day. Some days I couldn't even manage that and just lay in bed staring at the ceiling. I tried to take pride in even the smallest achievements, such as a whole afternoon gone by at work where I didn't end up crying in the toilets, or in making at least one corner of one room in the house look neat and tidy. I tried to give myself small treats as often as I could, and told myself that I deserved them even if I didn't believe it. Some days I decided the whole idea of trying was a waste of time and ate chocolate all day whilst eying up the contents of the medicine cabinet.
Once even I had noticed that I wasn't despairing any more, I started realising that there was something extra, something important I had been missing. Shortly after that God called me and I found faith. In all liklihood he was calling me well before that too, I just wasn't able to hear him.
Statistically, I'm likely to suffer at least one relapse into the pit. There are theories that there is no such thing as recovering from depression - in the same way as there's no such thing as a recovered alcoholic, only one that isn't drinking. But even if that's true, I'm content to be a 'happy depressive'. If I get dragged down there again, I know that I'm going there with the certainty of God's sovreignty and God's protection, and that having clawed my way out of it once, I can do so again. I think that I've also learned much about humanity from my time in the pit. Although I couldn't see it at the time, people around me in my family and at school were trying to help, they just didn't kow how. No matter how much I ignored them, avoided them, ran from them and shouted at them, they kept trying to chip through the shell I'd built around myself. Seeing some of the depths that misery can sink to has given me a better insight into the importance of helping others, and an insight into how sometimes even one person can make a difference for the better, simply by being there as a sounding board or verbal punchbag.
Certainly, life isn't a bed of sweetly smelling lavender (roses have thorns), and excrement just happens. There are no magic wands and no easy answers. I think, to a large extent, the biggest change wasn't in my circumstances, but inside me.
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Alleluia, Christ is risen!
Posts: 762 | From: Cambridge | Registered: Sep 2002
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Amos
Shipmate
# 44
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Posted
That was a wonderful post, Genie. ![[Not worthy!]](graemlins/notworthy.gif) Before this gets moved to All Saints. I want to add that depression is living hell. Some people are helped by medicine; for some no medicine can help. My husband is in the first category; he has been crippled with intermittent severe anxiety and depression since childhood. Finding a cocktail of psychopharmaceuticals that relieved some of the grief and horror of life and opened a window to human contact has changed his life immeasurably for the better.
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At the end of the day we face our Maker alongside Jesus--ken
Posts: 7667 | From: Summerisle | Registered: May 2001
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babybear
Bear faced and cheeky with it
# 34
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Posted
I was depressed during my undergraduate student days, and every autumn marks a little down turn for me. As people have been writing I have been able to remember what it was like. I found that I had lost 'me'. I didn't know who I was, what I liked, what I didn't like, how I would react etc.
Something that helped me was taking control of one little area of my life. I was the one in control and only I had the right to make changes etc.
I also found it helpful to have people that I could chat with about non-feelings stuff. When things were bad I could talk about facts and experiments, but was not able to venture any opinions. Later I was able to give opinions, as long as they were technical opinions. Now I can be very opinionated. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
If you do suffer from seasonal depression make sure that you talk about it with your doctor. Simple things like a change of diet, day-light simulation bulbs and more outdoor exercise can be very beneficial.
What ever the reason for your depression, I wish you well. I really hope that things improve and that you reach a place of contentment. (Apologies if that sounds condescending. It is most certainly not meant that way, nor is it meant to be a platiude.)
bb
Posts: 13287 | From: Cottage of the 3 Bears (and The Gremlin) | Registered: May 2001
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
It's easy enough to say it helps if you have someone there. It probably does help some people. It's not an option for me, and I'd find it intensely embarrassing anyway to have someone see me when I'm in the middle of a depressive period. Other people don't always handle it well in my experience: you can lose friends that way or people can use what you say to hurt you. I just keep it to myself as much as I can.
But oddly enough the longer depression goes on the more I find I start to query it. And slowly things do seem to be changing inside. And being honest with oneself is essential as is accepting your limitations and knowing that they may fluctuate.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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IntellectByProxy
Larger than you think
# 3185
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Posted
It doesn't help if you have someone there. It helps if you have someone who wants to be there. One thing for me was that I really needed to be needed. And I needed to be needed even though I was an emotional wreck.
Yes I was embarrased about the way I was acting, but the best point was knowing that that didn't matter to the someone that was there. It may not be an option to you, depression is a highly individual journey and nobody has the answer - people have bits of answers but nobody has IT.
Nobody can propose answers, all you can know is that people know. Hopefully you can get some flock mentality comfort out of that. You can get out of depression. You can get out of the cycle. It can be done, but how you achieve this is a product of your own life, nobody has your answer.
Try setting goals - I'll get through 1 day without an episode, 2 days... a week. Then when it goes tits-up start again, it's all you can do.
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www.zambiadiaries.blogspot.com
Posts: 3482 | From: The opposite | Registered: Aug 2002
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homerj
Shipmate
# 324
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Posted
A formal appology from all of us who (tahnk God) do not suffer immediately from depression and have resorted to crap platitudes and trite comments...
Sorry
My wife suffers from depression. Drugs help a bit (we call them 'mad-pills', it used to be 'happy pills', but somehow the new name helps a little)
The reality is that, just as 'you' can't explain to 'us' how you feel and why, so 'we' can't understand what it is that we should/can do to help 'you' in anyway.
This means that, because I love my wife deeply, I am desperate for her to feel better, and try - in that stupid, stupid bloke way - to cheer her up sometimes, even though somewhere inside I know that it probably won't help, or may even make the situation worse. To hug someone as they lay there crying for 'no reason' is always a weird & frightening experience. You feel helpless, sad, angry, hopeless, desperate, confused, tired, and any number of other emotions. And you know that there is nothing that you can do... but that you must try in some small way.
My prayers are with you
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The grass is only greener on the other side of the fence because it is pissing it down with rain over there
Posts: 304 | From: slipping into Essex | Registered: May 2001
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Amorya
Ship's tame galoot
# 2652
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Posted
I think I'll put something here, even though typing this in the college computer lab may not be the best idea. I'll expand more when I get home.
I sometimes suffer from depression, and have done on and off for the last 2 and a half years. So I can truly empathise with all of you hating the "You'll get better, there's hope" stuff others give. Have a look at this poem for some thoughts about that (no, I didn't write it).
I'll post more later. One of my friends has just sat down behind me and I don't want her to see.
Amorya
Posts: 2383 | From: Coventry | Registered: Apr 2002
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
Speaking as somebody who has stayed home "sick" from work for the last 2 days because I couldn't give a feck, I have to agree that depression sucks. Between the total lack of energy, lack of desire to do anything, and chronically being on the verge of tears, it's very wearing.
And I'm ON Prozac.
I don't have any good platitudes to hand over; I've given up on platitudes.
Lord have mercy.
Reader Alexis
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
I think it is probably time to admit it here. My first dose of depression happened from my teen years. It was never diagnosed, and lasted for at least 10 years. My second started in September 2001 and is still ongoing ( being particularly bad between September and December, if you hadn't realised it ). At least that was diagnosed, and Prozac was effective in the first 6 months ( but I hated being on it, and had to come off ).
It seems to be that people who have not experienced it assume it is "just a bad patch" - as most people get occassionally. But no it isn't. It is paralysing and draining, and it is not "logical". You can tell me why I shouldn't be depressed, but I probably know anyway. It is not a choice we have, or a "state of mind" - it is an illness, and a serious one at that.
I need to stop now. I might be back.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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St. Punk the Pious
Biblical™ Punk
# 683
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Posted
I've suffered from depression a lot, mostly years ago (although I had a very out-of-the-blue sharp episode last Spring).
I'm seem to pretty much have depression beat. There's a lot of things that have helped -- Psalms, being sure I get my sleep, involvement in ministry among other things.
I think what helped me the most though is gritting my teeth and trusting God with my life. I was so scared that God was going to drop the ball on me, and that I would end up miserable. And that fear, especially about continuing singleness, was making me miserable.
I'm still quite single, but also quite content. I trust God, not some future marriage, to "grant me the desires of my heart." (from Psalm 37, a big one in helping me to trust) Trusting God with my life, instead of fearing life, is what finally pulled me out of chronic depression.
I'm NOT saying that's the problem/cure for all depression by any means. I certainly don't understand that episode this past Spring. But that's how God worked to lift me up. Thank God. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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The Society of St. Pius *
Wannabe Anglican, Reader
My reely gud book.
Posts: 4161 | From: Choral Evensong | Registered: Jul 2001
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marmot
Mountain mammal
# 479
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Posted
My friends, if all you have tried is Prozac, please talk to your doctor again. Selective seritonin reuptake inhibitors, of which Prozac is only one example, have changed a lot over the last few years.
Some work faster--Prozac takes 6-8 weeks to fully kick in, and most people quit before then. Many of the new drugs have fewer and milder side effects. It can also take a little while to get the dose right--most docs will start you on a small dose, which may not be fully effective.
For the seritonin-impaired, trying to get well on your own is like a diabetic trying to stay healthy without insulin. It is OK to accept medical assistance for a medical problem, even if has psychological symptoms.
You don't have to be debilitated by this awful disease, and you deserve a better life.
Please talk to your docs. There are lots of treatment options.
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Join me in "The Legion of Bad Monkeys"
Posts: 2754 | From: The land of Saint Damien | Registered: Jun 2001
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Amorya
Ship's tame galoot
# 2652
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by marmot:
Please talk to your docs. There are lots of treatment options.
Alas, this is little help for those of us gone un-diagnosed. Unfortunately there's not much I can do about that one - in July 2000 I tried telling my parents (upon much prompting from the hosts of a site I visited), and they promised to help me then immediately forgot about it. I never dared bring up the subject again.
To anyone else: Marmot's right. We've studied all the options in Psychology class, and there's a whole range of different treatments (both psychological and biological), many having very high success rates.
Amorya
Posts: 2383 | From: Coventry | Registered: Apr 2002
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John Donne
Renaissance Man
# 220
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Posted
Also, though this is very rare - there may be another disorder complicating the depression... for instance a patient presents with what appears to be chronic severe depression... they report unusual sensory effects, the doctor hums, prescribes each new antidepressant as it gets approved for use to little or no effect. The patient is labelled and written off. Fortuitously, the doctor goes away on holiday and decides that the patient requires supervision during that time, so the patient is referred to another doctor who takes one look at the referral (atypical depression after all) and sends the patient off for an EEG. The EEG returns an anomaly and a diagnosis of Temporal Lobe Epilepsy (TLE) is made: this is an odd type of epilepsy whose symptoms may include mood effects, therefore while depression was present, only about 50% of the problem was ever being treated. ![[Disappointed]](graemlins/disappointed.gif) (There is the small matter of 16+ years of dysfunction, but it could be worse).
A correct diagnosis and appropriate medication helps. ![[Paranoid]](graemlins/paranoid.gif)
Posts: 13667 | From: Perth, W.A. | Registered: May 2001
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Arabella Purity Winterbottom
Trumpeting hope
# 3434
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Posted
Ariel, the only cliche that's worked for me is that it has to be lived through. I hate, hate, hate my depression, but after two two-year stints with it (separated by 10 years) its the only thing that keeps me going. And gardening. One counsellor I saw suggested that every now and then I think of my feet, pay attention to them, just to give me a moment's respite - funnily enough, it worked.
Prozac has been superb for me, although it did give me the morning jitters for the first three months - made me playing the piano or organ at church exciting for the congregation.
And Homerj, it must be difficult but I don't think its particularly a bloke thing because my partner has the same problem. Uncontrollable weeping is hard to cope with from either side. So good on you for keeping on keeping on. Usually I just want to be held and not talked to, if that's any help.
I'm only just beginning to see things properly again. My wonderful GP told me (after he gave me a hug) that the problem with depression is that you make perfectly rational assumptions based on perfectly irrational negative premises. So your thinking is OK, just based in the wrong place. It worked for me as a way to try and see where I was losing it.
Kia kaha all you other depression heroes,
APW
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Hell is full of the talented and Heaven is full of the energetic. St Jane Frances de Chantal
Posts: 3702 | From: Aotearoa, New Zealand | Registered: Oct 2002
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Qestia
Marshwiggle
# 717
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Posted
I've had bad times with depression in my life, two suicide attempts, I've discussed it before on the board awhile ago.
And I can't think of a single thing that helped me while depressed. It came as mysteriously as it went. It was defihnitely worst (meaning constant) in adolescence, perhaps it was tied, for me, with puberty somehow. No doubt beginning regular exercise, meals, meeting my spouse helped. All in all I just think I'm lucky. Very very lucky.
All I can say is when you're not depressed, you can remember what it's like when you are depressed, so you have some perspective. When I was depressed I thought happy people were fooling themselves. But I was so wrong about that; it's the other way around.
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I’m on Aslan’s side even if there isn’t an Aslan to lead it.
I’m going to live as like a Narnian as I can even if there isn’t any Narnia.
Posts: 1213 | From: Boston | Registered: Jul 2001
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Ian Climacus
Liturgical Slattern
# 944
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Posted
Depression sucks.
I went through it last year in a bad way, and no doubt it hit before in a more minor way.
What helped? Talking about it...having someone who would LISTEN [thank God for good friends] and not just give the "You'll be fine" spiel.
Drugs. Yes, it helped me get over the hard days, but I seemed to lose the ability to enjoy things either. I became indifferent: but it did help.
Cutting down on things: 4 nights a week I was learning languages; I was stressed at work; running around all weekend - trying to keep myself busy to keep my mind off it; yet it just caused me more stress. A few nice walks, swimming and curling up with a good book are now my main activities.
It's part of normal life for some people...but I wish sometimes it wasn't. Then again, it taught me to be more reliant on God as in Him only can I find true peace.
Thanks and thoughts to all who contributed to this thread and were brave enough to give their experiences.
Admiral.
Posts: 7800 | From: On the border | Registered: Jul 2001
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Ian Climacus
Liturgical Slattern
# 944
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Arabella Purity Winterbottom:
I'm only just beginning to see things properly again. My wonderful GP told me (after he gave me a hug) that the problem with depression is that you make perfectly rational assumptions based on perfectly irrational negative premises. So your thinking is OK, just based in the wrong place. It worked for me as a way to try and see where I was losing it.
True true.
How often did I think these happy people around me were deluded, or that the whole world was against me, or that all was going to hell in a handbasket - and I was the only one who could see it.
God have mercy!
Posts: 7800 | From: On the border | Registered: Jul 2001
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Assistant Village Idiot
Shipmate
# 3266
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Posted
marmot is correct.
Prozac is still the gold standard for obsessive-compulsive disorder (which is what I suffered with for years), but other SSRI's -- that's how you show your doctor that you're in the know -- are becoming more popular for depression.
Depression is multideterminate, so often you have got to slam against a lot of walls before you find an open street. And there is no adequate description of the feeling. Everyone else's descriptions have left me cold. How do you describe an absence?
Cultures that teach that there is a nobility in suffering, a semi-Christian idea, give people something to hold to, a way of making the depression give you something back. And there is something to forcing yourself to pretend normalcy, though denying reality can't be a permanent solution. Somewhere between those two half-truths there must be a whole truth, but I have never been able to quite grasp it.
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formerly Logician
Posts: 885 | From: New Hampshire, US | Registered: Sep 2002
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jlg
What is this place?
Why am I here?
# 98
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Posted
Depression sucks. And it is totally irrational, as has been pointed out already. When I have my really good days, I often think "Wow, for lots of people this is just normal. What would it be like to feel this way 90% of the time instead of 10% of the time?"
Posts: 17391 | From: Just a Town, New Hampshire, USA | Registered: May 2001
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Scarlet
Mellon Collie
# 1738
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Posted
Even on really good days, I am acutely aware that depression has darkly colored all the days of my life.
Even when I'm not really depressed and am functioning fairly well, I know I'm unable to experience happiness, peace and stillness of mind to the extent the non-affected do. It's like always peering uneasily at the world through a dirty glass while dragging around a heavy rock in a cold drizzle
I might as well be an alien.
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They took from their surroundings what was needed... and made of it something more.
—dialogue from Primer
Posts: 4769 | Registered: Nov 2001
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Josephine
Orthodox Belle
# 3899
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Posted
I am currently reading Harry Potter #3 (Prisoner of Azkaban) to my youngest, and just got done reading the chapter in which Dementors are introduced.
I read an article a while back, in which Rowling was said to have said that the Dementors were depression personified.
Makes sense to me.
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I've written a book! Catherine's Pascha: A celebration of Easter in the Orthodox Church. It's a lovely book for children. Take a look!
Posts: 10273 | From: Pacific Northwest, USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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sophs
Sardonic Angel
# 2296
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Posted
Depression is evil.
I hate it...
It is like being lost somewhere where you can't see anything in front of you, only various ways out, which seem easy. Only they are giving up and i don't want to do that.
The dementors suck out your soul. They remove every tiny bit of hope and light from your life. you can't run form then. There is no way out.
They are definatly depression personified.
Posts: 5407 | From: searching saharas of sorrow | Registered: Feb 2002
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ChristinaMarie
Shipmate
# 1013
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Posted
I suffer from manic depression, which means I can get high as well as low.
Last year, I spent months on end in the worst depression I've ever had. There were 2 periods were I didn't leave the apartment for 10 weeks at a time, it was that bad.
At the end of last year, things started to change, and I kept making little goals for myself. I tried to do at least one thing, every day, that would improve the apartment.
I decided to make some changes in my life, this year, that would help fight getting depressed again. I just don't want to be there again.
One thing I've started, is healthy eating. I've cut out fattening food, and started eating fruit and vegetables on a daily basis.
The other thing, is that I've started exercising. I use a ski-ing machine. I've been doing this nearly every day for the last 18 days.
The changes in my energy levels and mood, have been enormous. I feel alive again. I've lost over 6 pounds in weight so far too, so that helps my mood also.
To someone in the grips of depression, all I can say from my own experience, is that it will not go on forever. When I've been severely depressed, I've just hung on to that. I would advise a depressed person to try and eat sardines, pilchards and salmon, which are high in Omega 3, which is thought to help depression. Try and eat more fruit and veg too.
To someone not depressed, but prone to it, I would suggest finding some kind of exercise you can enjoy, and do it on a daily basis. Make it a lifestyle change. Regular exercise raises your metabolism, gives you more energy, and releases endorphins into your system, which are the natural anti-depressants.
I believe it is worth investing in an exercise machine. Think of it, if you spend a couple of hundred pounds on something you can use every day, which will help your mood, isn't it worth it? The problem with joining gyms, or running, is that these activities need a commitment to go out, and running is dependent on the weather. With an exercise machine, you can play your favourite music and exercise to it.
I had a problem with aerobic exerise though, before the New Year. I saw this kind of exercise as a 'no pain, no gain' thing. The problem with that belief, is that we strongly oppose things that cause us pain. Our conscious, subconscious and nervous system, try their damndest to avoid pain. This is why I kept failing to do regular exercise in the past. I saw it as painful, so would always give up after 2 days.
I did an exercise on an Anthony Robbins motivational course, about changing behaviour. If you are like me, and feel negative about exercise, you make a list of the pain you will experience by NOT doing exercise. Mine included: depression, lethargy, weight gain, decreased confidence, etc. You write them down, and feel the emotions.
You then make a list of what pleasure exercise will give you. Mine included: increased energy, vitality, weight loss, increasedconfidence, etc. Then again, feel the emotions. Think of what the effects will be in 5 years time and feel what it would be like.
I found that after about 3 days of doing this, I started exercising and enjoying it. I was focussed on how much energy I felt while doing the exercise, and how better I felt afterwards. I do it daily now, and am reaping the rewards. It makes a tremendous difference.
If you do decide to exercise, take it slowly at first and build up. You should be able to have a conversation during and after the exercise, without being totally breathless.
Christina
Posts: 2333 | From: Oldham | Registered: Jul 2001
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
I agree about the change of diet. Once I cut out sugar and caffeine and started eating more healthily, it helped quite a bit - especially with pmt, which has been something I've come to dread each month.
In fact, in November I went to the doctor about pmt but she didn't seem interested in any of the symptoms other than depression (never mind the irritability, insomnia, pains, flushes, irregularity etc), and I came away with a prescription for anti-depressants, which I didn't want. Reading the list of side effects horrified me, not least of all the realization that I would get worse before I got better. Having just spent a day in bed unable to do anything but cry and wish I was dead, I didn't dare risk taking them in case they sent me over the edge.
As something had to be done, I opted for St John's Wort, together with valerian, evening primrose and vitamins (for some reason I get a natural high from Vitamin E) and a change in diet. I was also going to try to take life one day at a time. It didn't work immediately, but a week later I was able to laugh and to appreciate the beauty of the world. It was a perspective I'd forgotten I could have and I realized just how much I'd lost.
It's not a panacea, I do have lapses, but it is giving me a much needed chance to get a perspective and to try to break out of a cycle of negative thinking. The above may sound silly and home-made but nobody has all the answers and you have to find your own way of coping. I'll be tacking on some meditations and pathworkings and now that I have some breathing space am able to query the assumptions I'm making. That in turn has led me to realizing that I don't want to die. I just don't want to live this way. And hopefully I won't have to but it really is one step at a time.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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heathen mama
Shipmate
# 3767
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Posted
One of the hardest aspects of depression is that it is very difficult to determine when it is coming on. You don't notice the shadows coming, until all of a sudden you realize you've been crying every day for three weeks, or that you have had no desire to get out of bed. I can tell I'm in the throes when I'm out in public and I cannot comprehend how other people have the physical energy to smile.
Having a mate is helpful at times, but it can also add a terrible sense of guilt. How can I be so damn selfish to suffer from this when all he does is provide me with friendship, love, and support. I get scared that he will think I am depressed because of him, not in spite of him.
Medications have helped me tremendously. Prozac was excellent. True, it made me less likely to have roll-on-the-floor laughing fits, but it also made me much less likely to yell at my beautiful children who deserve much better. They are the reason I seek help in the form of medication, because they deserve a mother who isn't lying in bed in tears, crying over spilt milk.
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I shaved my armpits for *this*?
Posts: 569 | From: the first state | Registered: Dec 2002
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Eanswyth
Ship's raven
# 3363
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Posted
If you have taken anti-depressants with unsatisfactory results, look into switching. I was on Prozac for about two years and quit after I got divorced. A year or so later I went back on and got some improvement but not enough. After nearly two years I was switched to Paxil with even less improvements. My doctor added Buspar, which is primarily for anxiety but may be useful as a boost to SSRIs and it helped a tiny bit. A year ago I switched from Paxil to Wellbutrin but in September I fell into the worst depression of my life. My new doctor added a new variant of Celexa called Lexapro and I'm doing pretty darn well. I've quit the Buspar so am now only taking 2 anti-depressants.
At my darkest, I felt completely dead inside except for fear of everything. I tried to tell those who care about me how I felt but couldn't get across how bad it was; I wanted to cut my arms because people would actually be able to see that. Then someone asked me to describe it as a place. It like I was in a completely dark room and couldn't get out. She asked me just to walk to the wall and feel for the door. I told her I couldn't because I was afraid. I pictured myself as curled up in a ball in the center of the room. I knew there was a door somewhere but I couldn't get to it. One part of the floor was covered with knives, one part was a hole with no bottom, and one part was full of animals that would tear me apart. I knew there was a straight path to the door but I had no way to find the path between the dangers.
After this conversation, I asked my husband to drive me to the church because it felt like the safest place I could think of. When I got there, there was an evening class letting out and my best friend was in the parking lot. She came over to the car to ask if we would like to go out to dinner with them and saw that I was in a terrible state. I couldn't talk, so my husband told her what was going on (with my permission). She then told me about her history of mental illness and for some reason I started feeling better. For no reason other than God's will, that seemed to be my turning point. Thanks be to God.
Posts: 1323 | From: San Diego | Registered: Sep 2002
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heathen mama
Shipmate
# 3767
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Posted
Eanswyth, I've just started Lexapro myself. It's only been two weeks, so I can't tell yet if it's working. I'd be interested to hear how it is working for you, you can pm me if you would like.
Depression to me feels like a grey, drizzly day. Everything is foggy and dull. Nothing tastes good, every song sounds trite, and the things that normally bring pleasure are diminished.
I'm hoping that the new meds can bring a little peace...i just have to patient and wait for them to start working.
Best wishes to all of you who suffer, and thanks to all of you who support those who suffer.
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I shaved my armpits for *this*?
Posts: 569 | From: the first state | Registered: Dec 2002
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Nanny Ogg
Ship's cushion
# 1176
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Posted
During this bout of depression my doctor has refused to put me on any medication. I think it's because it is due to post viral fatigue - but there are other underlying anxieties as well. I must admit that this is the worst I have suffered for many years.
I was offered counselling and the doctor filled in the form whilst I was in the surgery. A couple of days later I received a letter from West London Mental Health Trust basically asking "do you still require counselling?" and saying "if so there is a waiting list". I tore it up - I mean by the time my name comes up on the waiting list it would have passed. I guess the only way to get immediate counselling help through them is to be admitted.
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Buy me a beer and I'm you friend forever
Posts: 4137 | From: Away with the fairies | Registered: Aug 2001
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Squirrel
Shipmate
# 3040
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Posted
I've had good luck with a combination of Lexapro (an anti-depressant) and cognitive therapy, which is essentially a way of re-learning how you look at and think about things). Anti-depressants can really be effective. Unfortunately, psychiatry is not a perfect science, and doctors often have to try out a variety of medications in order to determine what works best for the individual. The key is to keep trying.
The worst thing to do is think you can somehow will your way out of depression. That's like telling somebody having an epileptic seizure to stop shaking.
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"The moral is to the physical as three is to one."
- Napoleon
"Five to one."
- George S. Patton
Posts: 1014 | From: Gotham City - Brain of the Great Satan | Registered: Jul 2002
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Arabella Purity Winterbottom
Trumpeting hope
# 3434
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eanswyth:
She then told me about her history of mental illness and for some reason I started feeling better. For no reason other than God's will, that seemed to be my turning point. Thanks be to God.
That's the exact reason I've talked about my depression to so many people. The first person I told was knocked over by a feather about it and went on to share that she too was on anti-depressants. She couldn't believe she wasn't alone.
We've now started a depression support group within our parish - it has about 10 members and that's only a fraction of the people who have shared their mental health histories with me. I've got to the stage where I think it is way more common than I previously thought (I think the official figures say something like 1 in 4 people will suffer depression at some stage in their life - I'm going for 1 in 3).
Or maybe its just in churches that its so high. Now that's a terrifying thought. ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
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Hell is full of the talented and Heaven is full of the energetic. St Jane Frances de Chantal
Posts: 3702 | From: Aotearoa, New Zealand | Registered: Oct 2002
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Amorya
Ship's tame galoot
# 2652
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Arabella Purity Winterbottom:
Or maybe its just in churches that its so high. Now that's a terrifying thought.
Actually, the vast majority of people who I know are depressed (or have been) are Christians... it's probably just because I'm closest personally to other Christians, but stillÉ
Amorya
Posts: 2383 | From: Coventry | Registered: Apr 2002
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Sean D
Cheery barman
# 2271
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Posted
I'm sorry for butting in, I feel a bit rude posting on this thread as I am not sharing an experience of depression. I have certainly had bad patches but not real depression. However, I wanted to say how humbled and gutted I was reading about all your experiences. I am typing with tears everywhere, very messy, and I wanted to say thank you so much for sharing so honestly. I have so much respect for you all.
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postpostevangelical
http://www.stmellitus.org/
Posts: 2126 | From: North and South Kensington | Registered: Feb 2002
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Amorya
Ship's tame galoot
# 2652
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sean D:
I'm sorry for butting in, I feel a bit rude posting on this thread as I am not sharing an experience of depression. I have certainly had bad patches but not real depression. However, I wanted to say how humbled and gutted I was reading about all your experiences. I am typing with tears everywhere, very messy, and I wanted to say thank you so much for sharing so honestly. I have so much respect for you all.
Oh Sean, thankyou!
I often feel the same way, reading messages where people have things worse than me. Makes me feel very guilty, that I dare to say I have suffered from depression when others have it much worse.
Amorya
Posts: 2383 | From: Coventry | Registered: Apr 2002
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RooK
1 of 6
# 1852
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Posted
While it has seemed on occasion that I have felt quite sad, perhaps even systemically enough to be classified as depressed, it has been nothing compared to the tales told herein. My grim sense of humour has always caused me to laugh, even at my own grief.
All of you seem to have created a new realm here in Hell. Keep up the good work.
Posts: 15274 | From: Portland, Oregon, USA, Earth | Registered: Nov 2001
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Assistant Village Idiot
Shipmate
# 3266
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Posted
"Others have it worse" is a double-edged sword. It can give you an important perspective, get you to count your blessings, turn your pain into action, all those good things. But there is a danger there as well. If you follow that line of reasoning, the person who has it worst in the world gets to feel sad and all of the rest of us should be uninterruptedly happy because we're not him.
Even small sufferings hurt, and have meaning. As before, it is the balance that is difficult. Ignoring and wallowing are both easy to fall into.
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formerly Logician
Posts: 885 | From: New Hampshire, US | Registered: Sep 2002
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Huia
Shipmate
# 3473
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Posted
Thank you to everyone who has posted, as someone who also endures depression I have got so much out of this thread. I really liked Arabella Purity Winterbottom's phrase "depression heroes" as it does take an heroic amount of energy just to get out of bed at times.
Josephine's comment about the dementors made perfect sense. Up until they came on the scene I found the HP books a bit bland, but they absolutely terrified me.
I have found that for me it doesn't help to compare who is more depressed or who has more reason to be depressed than I. Pain is pain.
What has helped is that I have been lucky enough to discover some loving people who have believed in me when I couldn't.
Huia
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Charity gives food from the table, Justice gives a place at the table.
Posts: 10382 | From: Te Wai Pounamu | Registered: Oct 2002
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Ian Climacus
Liturgical Slattern
# 944
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Posted
Agree with the sharing...a friend of a friend (now a good friend of mine) shared he was depressed -- just as I was seeking help for my depression. His sprits were suitably lifted for a short time when he realised he wasn't alone.
DAMN this depression: I've been a cranky old bastard at work this week -- not wanting to talk to anyone; I've made myself sick with worry over trivial matters; I've made myself sick with worry over seeing friends so I could cancel. God have mercy!
Posts: 7800 | From: On the border | Registered: Jul 2001
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sean D:
I'm sorry for butting in, I feel a bit rude posting on this thread as I am not sharing an experience of depression.
Sean dear, you (and anyone else) are welcome to post on this thread and thank you very much for your message. I didn't know which way this thread would go when I started it but it has been very useful, and indeed helpful. Depression is quite isolating and if you are surrounded by cheerful people who don't understand you can sometimes end up feeling you are a freak.
I was knocked badly off balance by the sudden death of my father when I was 16 (I had already just lost two other family members in the previous few months) and much of my life since then has been a struggle to get back on my feet emotionally while being knocked down by a variety of other external events. Some were rough by anybody's standards, others were me over-reacting but you can't get a perspective that way. This lasted for years, and included one suicide attempt at age 25 and an episode of depression where I was emotionally frozen and physically unable to smile for months. The reaction I almost always got from the people around me was impatience.
The lack of understanding and the emotional isolation have been the hardest things to bear, and unlearning the attitudes of a lifetime is uphill work. So something like this thread is useful - at least I'm finding it so - because it reminds me that I'm not a freak, and neither is anyone else on it. So feel free to post whether you have a depressive episode or advice to share or just an encouraging message. It all helps.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Erin
Meaner than Godzilla
# 2
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Posted
<tangent>
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
I agree about the change of diet. Once I cut out sugar and caffeine and started eating more healthily, it helped quite a bit - especially with pmt, which has been something I've come to dread each month.
In fact, in November I went to the doctor about pmt but she didn't seem interested in any of the symptoms other than depression (never mind the irritability, insomnia, pains, flushes, irregularity etc), and I came away with a prescription for anti-depressants, which I didn't want. Reading the list of side effects horrified me, not least of all the realization that I would get worse before I got better. Having just spent a day in bed unable to do anything but cry and wish I was dead, I didn't dare risk taking them in case they sent me over the edge.
I have been fortunate enough to not have suffered from depression, but I have horrific PMS/PMT. For three days of the month I would alternate between crying jags that lasted for hours and bouts of unbelievable rage when I couldn't trust myself to be around anything that could be used as a weapon (seriously).
About a year and a half ago my gynecologist put me on low-dose fluoxetine (aka Prozac, though my meds aren't sold under that name, 20mg). I noticed a marked improvement almost immediately. The only side effects I had were strange dreams for the first couple of weeks, then everything calmed down.
When I went back for my yearly exam last September, she told me to take a vitamin/mineral supplement called Optivite. The biggest difference between Optivite and other supplements is the extraordinary amount of B vitamins it contains, which do have effects on the nervous system. That took about three months of daily use before I noticed anything, but now, between the fluoxetine and the vitamins, my PMS is virtually gone -- still get the salt/chocolate cravings, but that's it. No irritability, no murderous rage, no depths of despair, no aches, no pains, no bloating, nada.
I realize that it doesn't work for everybody, and I'm not trying to sell fluoxetine on anyone. I say this just so that you know in some instances anti-depressants really do help with PMS.
</tangent>
[ 01. February 2003, 10:22: Message edited by: Erin ]
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Commandment number one: shut the hell up.
Posts: 17140 | From: 330 miles north of paradise | Registered: Mar 2001
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Blue Fire
Apprentice
# 3824
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Posted
Wow, Eanswyth....that's amazing. Your discription of depression...especially the traps and evils in the dark room are exactly what I get too! I never realised it like that before. I don't get heavy depression very often, but it is just like that!!! I find if I can actually get the car to work , I'm ok. I teach one to one and each student forces me to concentrate on them and my own, often unexplained, fears recede. I now know that if I drag myself, kicking and screaming out the door, then I can survive another day. I bless everyday that is free.
On lightly depressed days, I like to visit my 'happy place' which is a beautiful grassy world with shallow blue pools and tall graceful trees. Jesus is under one of the trees talking to others and I can go and tuck myself on the edge of the group or stay where I am. I choose.
Sometimes, I just go and hold his his hand and he just looks at me with such love that I cry and cry.
Sometimes, I just sit on God's Hand. It's so large that I can't see the world and warm and soft.
I close my eyes, put my problems (even the ones I can't look at) onto a large tray and lift them up (I do actually lift my arms in real life too) and give them to him and they look so small on his hand. His hand then lifts them away. Thank you God.
God bless you all and keep you near the light as much as possible.
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Dusk comes too soon and dawn too late To brighten on the sorrows of the world
Posts: 3 | From: UK | Registered: Dec 2002
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MCC
Shipmate
# 3137
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Posted
Like Huia said "Pain is Pain".
I'm more prone to panic/anxiety, but have had spells of depression and lethargic avoidance of the world,and eventually did accept Prozac/fluoxetine. For me the list of side effects in the box need to be thrown away, I do note a drop in sexual "results" (shall we say), but none of the horrors that others have reported. It helps me get to work, and there I find I am occupied, and restore a belief in myself because I am mixing and performing. But I know that is just my experience, and I always come off as soon as possible. I Went on in December to deal with the latest cricis, but I would not describe it as any more than minor depression, just a horrid reaction to something going wrong.
Basically, for me, 11 years of therapy, and the tools it gave me, are of prime importance. Finding and expressing the underlying feelings (in my case linked to being an adult child of an alcoholic whose other parent died when I was 11), and working through them, uncomfortable as they are, and hopefully without abusing anybody as I express the anger , pain, loneliness, abandonment etc are the ways of dealing with these so called mental, though in my case, emotional problems.
Learning, somehow, to love myself, even when it seems difficult. And recognising the childish part of myself, playing, dreaming, and needing, can all help me.
My faith does play a part, I don't see miracles, but just hope God, in Christ, is alongside.
Thankyou all for sharing,
I only offer my experience, no platitudes intended.
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mcc____
Posts: 419 | From: London | Registered: Aug 2002
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Emma Louise
Storm in a teapot
# 3571
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Posted
not sure what to say really.
me too.
hate it, wish i could understand it, wish other christians would not be puzzled after praying and it not all getting better overnight. Wish God would feel more 'real' and close in those times. Wish I knew what it was like to function on 90% rather than 10%. Wish my moods werent so variable. Wish i didnt self-harm. Wish it would all go away.
Posts: 12719 | From: Enid Blyton territory. | Registered: Nov 2002
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Arrietty
Ship's borrower
# 45
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Posted
Just to add I suffered from unrecognised depression throughout my childhood, adolescence and young adulthood and then postnatal depression for about 7 years. I also had anxiety/panic attacks which got worse and worse and I ended up living a very restricted life to avoid triggering them. Neither the depression or the panic were nearly as bad as some people's.
The thing that was most hard to cope with was people saying they didn't understand ![[Mad]](angryfire.gif) why I was depressed, or telling me how hard it was for them to cope with my depresssion.
The best thing anyone did was a friend who woudl turn up to see me regularly and get me to go out for half an hour a day when I was off work with it.
I am fortunate that through a (very long) process of medication, self examination and learning to manage stress I no longer live in fear of the plunge into the sort of experience described above. My heart goes out to those who are still under this threat. I remember that panic each time I needed to go and get more or different pills that one day nothing would work and then I would have to live with it forever. ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
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i-church
Online Mission and Ministry
Posts: 6634 | From: Coventry, UK | Registered: May 2001
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Moo
Ship's tough old bird
# 107
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Posted
quote:
I was knocked badly off balance by the sudden death of my father when I was 16 (I had already just lost two other family members in the previous few months)...
Our younger daughter was sixteen when my husband died. I think that's the worst possible age for a bereavement. A teenager has an adult understanding of death but no adult philosophy or coping skills. She had to deal with the stark fact with no resources except the support of those who loved her.
Ariel, my heart goes out to you.
Moo
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Kerygmania host
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See you later, alligator.
Posts: 20365 | From: Alleghany Mountains of Virginia | Registered: May 2001
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