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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Purgatory: It's not my fault I'm fat and broke!
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I_am_not_Job
Shipmate
# 3634
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Posted
Good for you, imagin8tor. I hope you don't get flamed as a relative newbie. Yes, some people are overweight for genuine medical reasons, but a lot aren't, and with a bit of work you can achieve change, and you don't have to be an ectomorph (naturally skinny build, as opposed to mesomorph - curvy, or endomorph - apple or pear shaped) for that to happen. It doesn't mean by losing weight you're morally superior either, it just means you've acheived something and it's ok that you should share your joy.
Posts: 988 | From: London | Registered: Dec 2002
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Pearalis
Shipmate
# 9035
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by imagin8or:
If you're married, have lots of sex.
Now, don't reply, switch off the screen, turn off the TV, and make peace with God. Then, knees permitting, go for a half-hour walk and see how far you can go.
Wot if you're not married. Plus its midnight, freezing, dark and dangerous.
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Some days are diamonds, some days are stone.
Posts: 205 | From: Australia | Registered: Jan 2005
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I_am_not_Job
Shipmate
# 3634
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Posted
Put on your favourite CD and get down and boogie. (quietly if you have neighbours and thin walls ![[Biased]](wink.gif) )
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Hope for everything; expect nothing
Posts: 988 | From: London | Registered: Dec 2002
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ananke
Shipmate
# 10059
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by imagin8or:
Being overweight is not ok. It's a health risk. It's a mind risk. It's a spiritual risk. You are still a person though, you are worth no less because of the extra material around you. Don't fall into either of the pits - feeling worthless because of your weight, or feeling that being fat is ok. You are ok, but your weight is not. So take ownership, take charge of it. Live as a child of God, not a slave to consumption and image. You are more important and worth far more than the magazines will tell you, more than people will think you're worth, and far more than you know yourself. So honour the God that made you worth so much by taking care of the body you have; you are worth too much to have all the problems of being too fat. You and God together can make it.
God doesn't give a flying flick if I'm fat. I'm healthy (apart from the previously mentioned problems which are nowt to do with weight). My worth is not dependent upon a scale - no matter my weight I can still write, I can still love, I can still read.
If I were a slave to consumption and image I'd probably still be fat, I'd just hate myself. The biggest point is I don't hate myself and I'd rather not be told God wants me to hate myself for being fat - which seems to be the bent of this particular screed.
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...and I bear witness, this grace, this prayer so long forgotten.
A Perfect Circle - Magdalena
Posts: 617 | From: australia | Registered: Aug 2005
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Huia
Shipmate
# 3473
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Posted
imagin8or, I might be more inclined to wade through your long post if you had shown the courtesy of reading at least some of the previous pages.
Huia
[ 15. July 2006, 11:33: Message edited by: Huia ]
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Charity gives food from the table, Justice gives a place at the table.
Posts: 10382 | From: Te Wai Pounamu | Registered: Oct 2002
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Left at the Altar
Ship's Siren
# 5077
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pearalis:
quote:
Originally posted by imagin8or:
If you're married, have lots of sex.
Now, don't reply, switch off the screen, turn off the TV, and make peace with God. Then, knees permitting, go for a half-hour walk and see how far you can go.
Wot if you're not married. Plus its midnight, freezing, dark and dangerous.
Excuses, excuses.
Whether it's extra-marital sex, or walking, at midnight, when it's dark and dangerous is the best time.
Just Do It.
Posts: 9111 | Registered: Oct 2003
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
And wet, LATA, don't forget wet.
Oh, it's wet and it's dark and it's dangerous
The Thing That People Do
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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Pearalis
Shipmate
# 9035
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Left at the Altar:
Excuses, excuses.
Whether it's extra-marital sex, or walking, at midnight, when it's dark and dangerous is the best time.
Just Do It.
But excuses are my thing ! You want to take away my thing !
Also I'm confused about how to have extra-marital sex. If I go for a walk at midnight and get assaulted by a married stranger does that count? ![[Paranoid]](graemlins/paranoid.gif)
Didn't they get rid of Just Do It for the Swoosh? Like how Prince became The Artist Formally Known as Prince, then The Artist, then Mr Squiggle.
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
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Some days are diamonds, some days are stone.
Posts: 205 | From: Australia | Registered: Jan 2005
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pearalis:
Wot if you're not married. Plus its midnight, freezing, dark and dangerous.
Stay in bed and practice ![[Snigger]](graemlins/snigger.gif)
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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Cod
Shipmate
# 2643
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Posted
Take a cricket bat (or a baseball bat if from North America). Smash your television set with the bat repeatedly.
Take the remains outside, set light to them, and dance around in an energetic manner.
Do the same to your video recorder.
Computers are exempt, because I use one.
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"I fart in your general direction."
M Barnier
Posts: 4229 | From: New Zealand | Registered: Apr 2002
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Carys
Ship's Celticist
# 78
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Posted
Yesterday, as I wondered back from going swimming (prompted partly by sitting and reading through the first n pages of this thread), I decided to pop into the shop and bought myself a mars ice-cream kingsize. This made me realise that something that has not been brought up on this thread is the increase of `kingsize' and `big eat' options when it comes to snacks, so rather than eating 35g of crisps you get 50g (for example). That definitely seems to me to be a way in which food companies are encouraging us to eat more unhealthily.
Carys
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O Lord, you have searched me and know me
You know when I sit and when I rise
Posts: 6896 | From: Bryste mwy na thebyg | Registered: May 2001
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Carys
Ship's Celticist
# 78
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Posted
Ooops. At some point, I will learn the difference between wondering and wandering. I was doing the latter to get back from the swimming pool.
Carys
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O Lord, you have searched me and know me
You know when I sit and when I rise
Posts: 6896 | From: Bryste mwy na thebyg | Registered: May 2001
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The Silent Acolyte
Shipmate
# 1158
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Posted
Carys, as an example in the other direction, the stoned adolescent who sits down to a half-gallon tub of ice cream has to satisfy her munchy-cravings these days with only 56 ounces, rather than the accustomed 64.
Posts: 7462 | From: The New World | Registered: Aug 2001
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
I'm trying to imagine the response most people would get from a request for more sex for the purposes of losing weight.
Marriage - where one acquires a personal exercise machine of the opposite sex.
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
Probbly why the local loose woman was often known as The Village Bicycle.
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
I'm trying to imagine the response most people would get from a request for more sex for the purposes of losing weight.
"Wel dear, you wanted me to lose weight, so I've been having it away with all the girls in the office. I think I've lost nearly half a stone. I knew you'd be happy."
[sound of frying pan hitting head]
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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Campbellite
Ut unum sint
# 1202
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Posted
After wading through this thread (Whew!), I might add that dialysis and a liver and kidney transplant have been most beneficial in helping me lose 75 Lbs/34 Kgs since this time last year. Not that I would recommend it as a weight loss option...
One major down side of this is that no matter what I wear, it feels like I am wearing someone else's clothes. (I have literally had my trousers fall to my ankles because they were too big. Don't you just hate it when that happens?)
I am, however, still broke. I can't even pay attention.
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I upped mine. Up yours.
Suffering for Jesus since 1966.
WTFWED?
Posts: 12001 | From: between keyboard and chair | Registered: Aug 2001
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Cod
Shipmate
# 2643
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Posted
Josephine,
I am sorry that I haven't been able to reply to this earlier. I travelled back to NZ from Britain the week before last (during which flight I was unfortunate enough to sit next to a fat gentleman who continually overflowed into my seat), and since then have been catching up with other things.
I think I may be presuptious enough to make the simple comment that if you a) avoid convenience food, b) don't eat too much of it and c) have some sort of knowledge about how to cook you are less likely to get fat. I wouldn't say that's conclusive. Of course some people are fat because they have genuine medical conditions. Or because they are on medication. My elder brother is overweight because he takes medication to control his psychosis. If he didn't take them, he'd probably soon be dead. Most people don't fit into either of these categories. I find it interesting that obesity in the West continues to rise. Obviously the reasons for this have both to do with a) the choices people have on offer and b) how they exercise their power of choice. That explains why France appears to have less of a problem with obesity, and north America more.
It does also explain why obesity (as opposed to a whole host of other things) is not a problem in Africa.
Now to your post: It is certainly presumptious to say that one cannot make that simple point with reference to anyonen at all by reference to a hard case (yours). I will say that your description of your day is familiar to me. I congratulate you on your use of time. But having said that, I notice this part of it:
quote:
There was only so much time in a day, and keeping my kids clean, well fed, and well rested were more important to me than going over their homework. There really wasn't time for everything. And if, for example, I also had to look after an elderly relative -- then something would have had to give up something else -- something else that was indeed important, but not as important as the other things. Cooking from scratch probably would have been it.
Which means that we agree. If you really think that doing a weekly shop is more important to me than occasional emergencies then you have extrapolated something from my post that I neither said or implied in any way at all. Failing that, the fuel you put in your kids' bodies is of course important (and incidentally, I never had my homework checked as a child because my parents relied on the teacher to keep tabs on such things. I've always thought it a rather odd habit)
I will say one thing extra, although I probably should not. Fiddleback's comments on this thread were not helpful. Ridicule never helps anyone do anything. What is ten times more offensive than anything Fiddleback, Cosmo, or anyone else has said is that while a good third of the world frequently starves a much smaller part of it bemoans its obesity problem and cynically uses medical conditions in order to avoid the moral blame. Or alternatively, the "I am an island" argument that obesity is no-one's business but one's own. No, I am not making any comment on any particular individual, certainly not anyone who has posted on this thread because I assume people are honest, but taking a step back and looking at the issue on the level of society as a whole this clearly is what has happened. It is really very simple, we have too much and if we had a bit less we'd ironically be better off. Food is no exception.
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"I fart in your general direction."
M Barnier
Posts: 4229 | From: New Zealand | Registered: Apr 2002
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Cod:
It is really very simple.
No, it isn't. This is something you, and Fiddleback, and Cosmo, just don't understand. It's not really simple. If it were really simple, then there wouldn't be a problem in the first place.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Rat
Ship's Rat
# 3373
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Cod:
What is ten times more offensive than anything Fiddleback, Cosmo, or anyone else has said is that while a good third of the world frequently starves a much smaller part of it bemoans its obesity problem and cynically uses medical conditions in order to avoid the moral blame. Or alternatively, the "I am an island" argument that obesity is no-one's business but one's own. No, I am not making any comment on any particular individual, certainly not anyone who has posted on this thread because I assume people are honest, but taking a step back and looking at the issue on the level of society as a whole this clearly is what has happened. It is really very simple, we have too much and if we had a bit less we'd ironically be better off. Food is no exception.
As Mousethief says, it really isn't simple, otherwise it'd all be solved and there'd be no need for a huge, multi-million pound 'diet industry'.
But accepting what you say - that fat is a moral issue in a starving world - you have to also accept that the opposite is true. The rich (and in that context all of us posting are rich) spending huge amounts of time, energy and money in pursuit of a skinny body in a world where people are starving doesn't strike me as particularly edifying either. I find it difficult to see the fashionable women pictured in Nonpropheteer's link earlier as morally superior to someone who has to work for a living, spends less time on their beauty regime and is therefore a bit plump. And since you don't believe medical conditions can cause weight gain, I presume people with compulsive eating disorders are included in the general condemnation? Fine, as long as anorexics and bulimics are included on the same terms.
To steal from Telepath, the problem is that we live in an eating disordered society. I just get irritable when one symptom of that - the overweight - gets singled out for vilification.
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It's a matter of food and available blood. If motherhood is sacred, put your money where your mouth is. Only then can you expect the coming down to the wrecked & shimmering earth of that miracle you sing about. [Margaret Atwood]
Posts: 5285 | From: A dour region for dour folk | Registered: Oct 2002
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magdalenegospel
Shipmate
# 11619
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Posted
The Malawi comment - that there aren't people with over-eating disorders in Malawi - is something of a red herring.
I'm reliably informed* that there is next to no dyslexia (of the sort that is diagnosed in an educational setting) in Italian speakers, due to the way that the language is constructed.
It doesn't mean that they can't be dyslexic in another language.
I suspect that Binge-eating disorder and other metabolic disorders are triggered by certain circumstances in the developed world, in addition to the availability of food.
Just a thought.
*Butterworth [i}the mathematical brain[/i]. Stansfield J, various papers on the prevalence of dyslexic disorders in European languages.
Posts: 75 | From: London | Registered: Jul 2006
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Papio
Ship's baboon
# 4201
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by magdalenegospel:
The Malawi comment - that there aren't people with over-eating disorders in Malawi - is something of a red herring.
I'm not a geneticist, or whatever one has to be to have an in-depth knowledge of such things, but is it mot possible that people there do have over-eating disorders, but lack the ability to over-eat?
In other words, is the fact that they can't over-eat enough to show that no disorder exists in any of them?
[ 23. July 2006, 17:49: Message edited by: Papio ]
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Infinite Penguins.
My "Readit, Swapit" page
My "LibraryThing" page
Posts: 12176 | From: a zoo in England. | Registered: Mar 2003
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Newman's Own
Shipmate
# 420
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Posted
I am growing so tired of the idea that everything would be just so wonderful if the entire world were poor and starving.
Oh, I forgot... we're all rich. Yet I wish that having things such as running water, food of some kind on the table, electricity, a better chance at a longer lifespan and good general health than our parents had, were things for which we could be grateful rather than guilty.
(I would not be surprised - and I am not asking - if there are many Ship mates who either are or at some time have been struggling just to survive.)
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Cheers,
Elizabeth
“History as Revelation is seldom very revealing, and histories of holiness are full of holes.” - Dermot Quinn
Posts: 6740 | From: Library or pub | Registered: Jun 2001
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Papio
Ship's baboon
# 4201
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by Cod:
It is really very simple.
No, it isn't. This is something you, and Fiddleback, and Cosmo, just don't understand. It's not really simple. If it were really simple, then there wouldn't be a problem in the first place.
And this thread would be over long ago.
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Infinite Penguins.
My "Readit, Swapit" page
My "LibraryThing" page
Posts: 12176 | From: a zoo in England. | Registered: Mar 2003
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Telepath
Ship's Steamer Trunk
# 3534
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Posted
Originally posted by Mousethief:
quote:
quote:
Originally posted by Cod:
It is really very simple.
No, it isn't. This is something you, and Fiddleback, and Cosmo, just don't understand. It's not really simple. If it were really simple, then there wouldn't be a problem in the first place.
It is really simple.
It's just not really easy, for many people.
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Take emptiness and lying speech far from me, and do not give me poverty or wealth. Give me a living sufficient for me.
Posts: 3509 | From: East Anglia | Registered: Nov 2002
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Telepath
Ship's Steamer Trunk
# 3534
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Posted
Originally posted by Newman's Own:
quote:
I am growing so tired of the idea that everything would be just so wonderful if the entire world were poor and starving.
Oh, I forgot... we're all rich. Yet I wish that having things such as running water, food of some kind on the table, electricity, a better chance at a longer lifespan and good general health than our parents had, were things for which we could be grateful rather than guilty.
It's pretty lame to follow up on somebody's post for the sole purpose of saying "yeah".
Which is why I put in the above paragraph before saying, "yeah, Newman's Own!"
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Take emptiness and lying speech far from me, and do not give me poverty or wealth. Give me a living sufficient for me.
Posts: 3509 | From: East Anglia | Registered: Nov 2002
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ananke
Shipmate
# 10059
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Telepath:
It is really simple.
It's just not really easy, for many people.
How hard is it to see that there are concrete REASONS for obesity that have nothing to do with individuals and everything to do with society/culture? Not to mention medicine?
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...and I bear witness, this grace, this prayer so long forgotten.
A Perfect Circle - Magdalena
Posts: 617 | From: australia | Registered: Aug 2005
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Telepath
Ship's Steamer Trunk
# 3534
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Posted
Originally posted by ananke:
quote:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Telepath:
It is really simple.
It's just not really easy, for many people.
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How hard is it to see that there are concrete REASONS for obesity that have nothing to do with individuals and everything to do with society/culture? Not to mention medicine?
I can't tell if you have cited my post because you want to challenge it, or because you want to use it as support for your own post.
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Take emptiness and lying speech far from me, and do not give me poverty or wealth. Give me a living sufficient for me.
Posts: 3509 | From: East Anglia | Registered: Nov 2002
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magdalenegospel
Shipmate
# 11619
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Posted
There was an article in the Guardian citing studies on Western-process Soya products suggesting that they affect our thyroids among other things. Given that that sort of Soy is very common in cheap foods, it asks the question about whose fault is it that the metabolisms of individuals are slowly being screwed up, so that we struggle to eat the right amount of foods.
Eastern-Process soy - tofu, miso etc - seems to be OK as long as it's been done properly.
Posts: 75 | From: London | Registered: Jul 2006
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Rat
Ship's Rat
# 3373
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by magdalenegospel:
Given that that sort of Soy is very common in cheap foods, it asks the question about whose fault is it that the metabolisms of individuals are slowly being screwed up, so that we struggle to eat the right amount of foods.
Just out of interest, the stuff I said earlier I remembered about cheap chicken was re-stated on daytime TV this week. A nutritionist was saying that you could no longer count on chicken to be a low fat, healthy meat, as cheap mass-produced chicken is actually very high fat due to the sedentery lives and unnatural diet of the chickens.
I'm very much of the opinion that less, even very little, good quality meat is a better option than cheap meat. Even if that means a vegetarian or near-vegetarian diet while times are tough. Having just lost our main income, for a while at least, this topic is close to my heart at the moment. And the subject of some domestic argument.
I do think it would be a good idea for schools to teach basic cookery from raw ingredients, both meat and veggie.
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It's a matter of food and available blood. If motherhood is sacred, put your money where your mouth is. Only then can you expect the coming down to the wrecked & shimmering earth of that miracle you sing about. [Margaret Atwood]
Posts: 5285 | From: A dour region for dour folk | Registered: Oct 2002
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EnglishRose
Shipmate
# 4808
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Rat:
Just out of interest, the stuff I said earlier I remembered about cheap chicken was re-stated on daytime TV this week. A nutritionist was saying that you could no longer count on chicken to be a low fat, healthy meat, as cheap mass-produced chicken is actually very high fat due to the sedentery lives and unnatural diet of the chickens.
Even "good quality" chicken contains hidden ingredients these days. I was shopping in M&S recently and happened to glance at the packets of cooked chicken drumsticks/thighs/quarters etc. I was horrified to see that sugar was listed (in very small print) as one of the ingredients. Why? These were packets of 'plain' chicken, no fancy sauces or marinades. I wonder how many people would buy pre-cooked chicken from M&S in the belief that they were buying a healthy option for lunch/supper, little realising that they were buying a product laden with sugar?
[ 25. July 2006, 13:40: Message edited by: Curiosus ]
Posts: 544 | From: London | Registered: Aug 2003
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Rat
Ship's Rat
# 3373
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Posted
Coincidentally we had a post-natal class on weaning this afternoon, and as part of that we examined the teensy-tiny ingredients print on commercial baby foods. It was absolutely shocking!
A jar of cottage pie baby food on which sugar was the third top ingredient (below some sort of scary 'beef product' and reconstituted potato). Products marked 'suitable from 4 months' containing ingredients not recommended before 6 months or a year. One familiar product describing itself as 'nutritionally tailored to meet the needs of your growing baby' contained practically no nutritional value besides sugar. 'Fruit' foods with very little fruit, but an awful lot of flavourings.
Now, before the 'it's their own fault they're stupid' brigade bite my head off, I know that buying commercial baby foods is not cost effective, and that sensible people read the ingredients. But people who lack the skills, knowledge or confidence to make up their baby food from scratch could easily be led to believe that in spending a more than manageable amount on prepackaged food they are doing the best for their baby by giving them food formulated by experts. When actually they're setting them up with a taste for processed, sugar-laden crap.
Caveat emptor is all very well, but surely food manufacturers need to take some responsibility for what they try to pass off as healthy food across the board, from chickens packed with hormones, fat and water, to trans-fats and corn syrup, to these manky baby foods.
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It's a matter of food and available blood. If motherhood is sacred, put your money where your mouth is. Only then can you expect the coming down to the wrecked & shimmering earth of that miracle you sing about. [Margaret Atwood]
Posts: 5285 | From: A dour region for dour folk | Registered: Oct 2002
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EnglishRose
Shipmate
# 4808
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Rat:
But people who lack the skills, knowledge or confidence to make up their baby food from scratch could easily be led to believe that in spending a more than manageable amount on prepackaged food they are doing the best for their baby by giving them food formulated by experts.
I think that this is true for many consumers, not just those buying baby food. Imagine that you are significantly overweight and that this is beginning to have an impact on your health. You decide to start eating healthily: lots of fruit juice, fruit yoghurts instead of chocolate cheesecake, plain chicken instead of takeaway. However, you weren't taught to cook as a child and/or have little confidence in your ability to cook 'proper' meals. You want to do the right thing so you start buying pre-prepared 'healthy' food which you think has been formulated by experts. What you don't realise is that the food prepared by experts is filled with sugar and hidden fats. And before anyone says "can't you read?", just remember that many of the sugars and fats are listed under long scientific names that mean nothing to the average consumer. Is it therefore any wonder that some people put on weight without overeating and/or struggle to lose weight? Yes, we are responsible for the quantity of food that we eat, but companies who load so-called 'healthy foods' with hidden sugars and fats cannot escape a degree of responsibility for the current obesity epidemic.
Posts: 544 | From: London | Registered: Aug 2003
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EnglishRose
Shipmate
# 4808
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Posted
[Apologies for the double post - ran out of editing time!]
There's a very interesting article in The Times today about high fructose corn syrup used in many health foods. It may sound healthy but many experts believe that it is a direct cause of obesity and may even be short-wiring our metabolisms. It's also very difficult to avoid - to quote part of the article:
quote:
“It is everywhere. You don’t always realise where it crops up because you don’t look for it, so you can take in large quantities of HFCS and think you are eating healthily.”
Posts: 544 | From: London | Registered: Aug 2003
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Moo
Ship's tough old bird
# 107
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Curious
...just remember that many of the sugars and fats are listed under long scientific names that mean nothing to the average consumer.
I read a label on a can of creamed corn which listed 'desiccated cane juice' as an ingredient. Cane sugar, anyone?
I haven't been able to find creamed corn without sugar for about thirty-five years. I have an excellent corn chowder recipe which tastes awful with added sugar.
Moo
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Kerygmania host
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See you later, alligator.
Posts: 20365 | From: Alleghany Mountains of Virginia | Registered: May 2001
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Telepath
Ship's Steamer Trunk
# 3534
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Posted
Damn straight, Curiosus.
People should be able to go to a shop and buy food on the default assumption that it contains food. They shouldn't have to have the analytical obsessiveness of, well, me, to find a freaking meal they can eat.
Oh, and. A while back I read something about big words like "fructose" being scary for people, and how it would be helpful to call it "fruit sugar" instead.
Of course, most people will assume "fruit sugar" is so much better for you than that nasty sugar sugar. You know, like honey is better because it's been puked up by one of Nature's Bees.
And what will they get? Most of the time, probably, the enormously fatogenic high-fructose corn syrup! Give it up for obfuscation! Go on, give it up!
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Take emptiness and lying speech far from me, and do not give me poverty or wealth. Give me a living sufficient for me.
Posts: 3509 | From: East Anglia | Registered: Nov 2002
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Cod
Shipmate
# 2643
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Rat:
I'm very much of the opinion that less, even very little, good quality meat is a better option than cheap meat.
That's what I do (and so of course I'm going to say that you're right). There are also cheap cuts that are pretty nutritous that seem to have gone right off the radar screen - liver, kidney, heart, tongue. Of course, that does mean having access to a half-decent butcher.
quote:
Also posted by Rat:
A jar of cottage pie baby food on which sugar was the third top ingredient (below some sort of scary 'beef product' and reconstituted potato). Products marked 'suitable from 4 months' containing ingredients not recommended before 6 months or a year. One familiar product describing itself as 'nutritionally tailored to meet the needs of your growing baby' contained practically no nutritional value besides sugar. 'Fruit' foods with very little fruit, but an awful lot of flavourings.
We fell foul of this one too, actually. We bought some baby food that was recommended by Plunkett (NZ child help and advice institution originally popularised by the now infamous Truby King), then checked the label and lo and behold - milk powder, salt and sugar and all sorts of other shit. There aren't any laws against doing that sort of thing, I suspect manufacturers try and get round it all the time. It's damn difficult - that I am happy to admit, and I don't bother checking labels anymore - I just don't buy. Fortunately, the Codlet is now old enough to eat what we have - which means we hardly ever have salt now ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
(edited code)
[ 01. August 2006, 08:30: Message edited by: Cod ]
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"I fart in your general direction."
M Barnier
Posts: 4229 | From: New Zealand | Registered: Apr 2002
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ananke
Shipmate
# 10059
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Cod:
There are also cheap cuts that are pretty nutritous that seem to have gone right off the radar screen - liver, kidney, heart, tongue. Of course, that does mean having access to a half-decent butcher.
Those are also ones that require a higher level of skill to prepare. Not to mention the social censure associated with offal. I consider myself a damn good cook but I'm still not cooking up lambs fry without my aunt or grandma on standby. I can't imagine what it'd be like facing a cow's tongue when you've not even seen raw meat/vegetables. Which I found out the other day (thanks to some reality show) isn't an urban myth - there are children out there who have never seen real vegetables!
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...and I bear witness, this grace, this prayer so long forgotten.
A Perfect Circle - Magdalena
Posts: 617 | From: australia | Registered: Aug 2005
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Laura
General nuisance
# 10
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Moo:
quote:
Originally posted by Curious
...just remember that many of the sugars and fats are listed under long scientific names that mean nothing to the average consumer.
I read a label on a can of creamed corn which listed 'desiccated cane juice' as an ingredient. Cane sugar, anyone?
I haven't been able to find creamed corn without sugar for about thirty-five years. I have an excellent corn chowder recipe which tastes awful with added sugar.
Moo
You just have to make your chowder without creamed corn, as we have had to do for a number of years, for exactly the reason you cite. I always make way too much corn on the cob and slice it off to save for chowder if I want chowder.
Re: the baby food, Rat, I'm really shocked to hear that the commercial baby food you have has sugar added! I took a quick peek through the Gerber and Earth's Best baby foods I have here, and keeping in mind that I don't buy the ones labeled "fruit dessert", which would be expected to have sugar, I find that none of them has sugar added. The carrots contain "carrots, water". Pears contain "pears, ascorbic acid (Vitamin C)". Sweet potatoes and corn contain "sweet potatoes, corn, water". Plums and apples contains "plums, apples". But then, I wouldn't buy a baby food with a complex food like cottage pie or macaroni and cheese, because these are things that are more likely to contain weird meat or sugary additives.
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Love is the only sane and satisfactory answer to the problem of human existence. - Erich Fromm
Posts: 16883 | From: East Coast, USA | Registered: Apr 2001
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Cod
Shipmate
# 2643
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Posted
Offal is horrible stuff when cooked wrongly. And if it's not absolutely fresh it'll give one a hell of a stomach ache (so I'm told). Which is why, as I've said a number of times, one of the main problems is knowing what to cook and how to cook it.
I cooked a cow's tongue last week. It was a bit wierd seeing this huge, piebald thing. I boiled it with carrots, leeks and onions. It was quite nice in a soft, beefy sort of way.
Two days ago I made a stock with a pig's trotter. The butcher gave it to me for nothing.
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"I fart in your general direction."
M Barnier
Posts: 4229 | From: New Zealand | Registered: Apr 2002
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Pearalis
Shipmate
# 9035
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Cod:
Two days ago I made a stock with a pig's trotter. The butcher gave it to me for nothing.
Whatever became of the other three?
Reminds me of the yarn (that I can't wholly recall)about the bloke whose pig had a wooden leg, the last line of which was, "Well, with a pig that good, you don't eat him all at once". ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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Some days are diamonds, some days are stone.
Posts: 205 | From: Australia | Registered: Jan 2005
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Rat
Ship's Rat
# 3373
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Laura:
Re: the baby food, Rat, I'm really shocked to hear that the commercial baby food you have has sugar added! I took a quick peek through the Gerber and Earth's Best baby foods I have here, and keeping in mind that I don't buy the ones labeled "fruit dessert", which would be expected to have sugar, I find that none of them has sugar added. The carrots contain "carrots, water".
I should be fair - I expect the health visitor deliberately picked products for the class that would shock us into checking ingredients in future. There are very likely good products out there too. I am surprised, though, that there isn't some sort of rule about what can go into baby food.
In fact, I just checked the packet of organic baby mashed potato we got free from somewhere, and it contains "organic potato, organic rosemary extract". So that sounds OK. (Though in that case I'd have thought it would be just as easy, and a lot cheaper, just to mash a potato.)
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It's a matter of food and available blood. If motherhood is sacred, put your money where your mouth is. Only then can you expect the coming down to the wrecked & shimmering earth of that miracle you sing about. [Margaret Atwood]
Posts: 5285 | From: A dour region for dour folk | Registered: Oct 2002
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Laura
General nuisance
# 10
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Posted
There are rules in the US about baby food contents, but they probably aren't restrictive enough. In fact, I noticed that there are now Gerber Latino-style baby foods (which would generally be a good thing, I would think), but it turns out that these are mostly desserts, like sweetened papaya or mango with cream. I might give a baby a tiny bite of ice cream or pudding every now and then, but regular sugared fruits is probably not a good idea, in terms of forming a child's tastes.
I also would generally not blow money on baby food mashed potatoes, or things like bananas (which are very easy to mash ones' self. But applesauce is the very devil to make regularly, and the same goes for plums and other hardish fruits and vegetables. Indeed, I wouldn't buy baby food mac & cheese, soups or pastas because a small trip in the food processor reduces these to a suitable pulp.
[ 02. August 2006, 15:52: Message edited by: Laura ]
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Love is the only sane and satisfactory answer to the problem of human existence. - Erich Fromm
Posts: 16883 | From: East Coast, USA | Registered: Apr 2001
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Alogon
Cabin boy emeritus
# 5513
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Father Gregory:
it troubles me that some obese people have started looking beyond their minds and mouths to the name on the packet for someone to blame and sue for their own lack of self control. Are we creating a society of helpless victims who will do anything EXCEPT look at their own behaviours?
While this is an interesting thread throughout, it has drifted from the topic of the O.P., which asked questions that I doubt we have fully faced yet.
Several pages ago, I tried to point out that modern people are being manipulated in ways that never troubled their ancestors, and which increasingly compromise their free will in practical terms. No one picked up either to agree or disagree.
While I agree with Father Gregory in part and despise excessive, opportunistic litigaton, I also think that it is important for the church to see both sides of this issue. Free will is an important philosophical principle for us. But what do we accomplish by merely asserting it in theory? Shouldn't we also ardently work to preserve it in practice?
If you perceive what I think Hillary Clinton correctly called "a vast right-wing conspiracy" of governments and mega-corporations, whose tentacles prey upon and disempower the populace in as many ways as they can, what role would such a conspiracy envision for the church? Obviously, it would wish for something that would distract the citizenry from what is being done to them. One way to do so would be to assert free will and personal responsibility without doing anything to protect them or keep them real.
So, does the shoe fit?
If so, Marx's accusation that religion is the opiate of the people is not wide of the mark.
I hope it does not. But lest it do, we must keep our eyes open.
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Patriarchy (n.): A belief in original sin unaccompanied by a belief in God.
Posts: 7808 | From: West Chester PA | Registered: Feb 2004
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Nightlamp
Shipmate
# 266
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Posted
I found this article on the OP I had been quite a supporter of the relationship between genetics and people being fat but it seems I am wrong.
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I don't know what you are talking about so it couldn't have been that important- Nightlamp
Posts: 8442 | From: Midlands | Registered: May 2001
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Soror Magna
Shipmate
# 9881
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Posted
And this appeared in the NYT Magazine on the weekend:
Fat Factors
This was my favourite part:
quote:
One of Atkinson’s most memorable patients was Janet S., a bright, funny 25-year-old who weighed 348 pounds ... During the three months of presurgical study, the dietitian on the research team calculated how many calories it should take for a 5-foot-6-inch woman like Janet to maintain a weight of 348. They fed her exactly that many calories — no more, no less. She dutifully ate what she was told, and she gained 12 pounds in two weeks — almost a pound a day.
OliviaG
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"You come with me to room 1013 over at the hospital, I'll show you America. Terminal, crazy and mean." -- Tony Kushner, "Angels in America"
Posts: 5430 | From: Caprica City | Registered: Jul 2005
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Nightlamp
Shipmate
# 266
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Posted
The classic example that has been given to support the genetic relationship between being fat and genetics has been the Pima indians but the thrifty gene theory has now been debunked.
Janet's problem could have been a result of a miscalculation on the part of the dietician or
as the telegraph article suggested one of the very few people with a genetic problem.
Evidence is suggesting that reason most people are fat is due to over eating but in a few cases faulty genes maybe at fault.
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I don't know what you are talking about so it couldn't have been that important- Nightlamp
Posts: 8442 | From: Midlands | Registered: May 2001
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Nightlamp
Shipmate
# 266
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Posted
The other issue is of course that over eating could be a result of an addiction to food, which may have a genetic component.
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I don't know what you are talking about so it couldn't have been that important- Nightlamp
Posts: 8442 | From: Midlands | Registered: May 2001
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