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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Purgatory: What one might consider an adequate reason to leave a church
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Twangist
Shipmate
# 16208
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Posted
quote:
the church had turned their building into a leisure centre for a community that didn't hitherto have one, with like gym, soft play and coffee shop and everything
Seems like they are really trying to serve the community already. Why do they need to hire a consultant to revitalise their outreach? Let alone the one they got?
I always wonder how these "wrong uns" into get these positions in the first place.
![[Votive]](graemlins/votive.gif) for everyone struggling with whether they are in the right place or not
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JJ
SDG
blog
Posts: 604 | From: Devon | Registered: Feb 2011
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Wood:
He is, it transpires, a "church consultant", a term that chills my blood just thinking about it. The church apparently has paid to get this man in to "revitalise their outreach". And I bet he's not on minimum wage.
And my friends do not like him at all — information they volunteered before I could say anything. Hell, they know me. They knew I was cringing.
And they're worried about the church, and about the grip this man has been given over it.
That guy wasn't 'formerly from Devon' was he? He sounds so much like someone I recognise and who caused so much trouble. Such people often get passed from church to church as they exhaust the patience of each congregation. The guy I'm thinking of believed he had a special ministry to Christian Ministers. And some Christian Ministers were very gullible and believed him. At least at first....
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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Ophelia's Opera Therapist
Shipmate
# 4081
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Posted
Thanks for this thread, which I have followed with interest. I hope your meeting involves grace, wisdom and clear communication on both sides and that you can have a good ending with integrity or an obvious break through (however unlikely that may seem).
God be with you,
OOT
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Though the bleak sky is burdened I'll pray anyway,
And though irony's drained me I'll now try sincere,
And whoever it was that brought me here
Will have to take me home. Martyn Joseph
Posts: 979 | From: Birmingham, UK | Registered: Feb 2003
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CorgiGreta
Shipmate
# 443
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Wood:
I went to their church, which was, frankly, completely outside my comfort zone, a charismatic place with a rock band that didn't just look like a leisure centre, it was the leisure centre...
Anyway, there was this bloke who was not the pastor who did most of the talking, and he was smug, and made inappropriate jokes (like, really inappropriate, like sexist, mildly risqué but still too risqué for the pulpit gags) and used the language of self-help and therapy... The communion was an afterthought...
Greta faints, partially recovers, and crawls back to the haven of Ecclesiantics.
Posts: 3677 | Registered: Jun 2001
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Twangist:
quote:
the church had turned their building into a leisure centre for a community that didn't hitherto have one, with like gym, soft play and coffee shop and everything
Seems like they are really trying to serve the community already. Why do they need to hire a consultant to revitalise their outreach?
It depends on whether they actually get community groups in to use the facilities they have.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Wood
The Milkman of Human Kindness
# 7
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Posted
Ophelia's Opera Therapist: Thank you. It goes down in my lunch break.
Chorister: The man's accent was certainly West of England, even though we were in a smallish town not far from Bridgend. I honestly have no idea. PM me and we shall see if we can find out anything more.
quote:
Originally posted by CorgiGreta:
quote:
Originally posted by Wood:
I went to their church, which was, frankly, completely outside my comfort zone, a charismatic place with a rock band that didn't just look like a leisure centre, it was the leisure centre...
Anyway, there was this bloke who was not the pastor who did most of the talking, and he was smug, and made inappropriate jokes (like, really inappropriate, like sexist, mildly risqué but still too risqué for the pulpit gags) and used the language of self-help and therapy... The communion was an afterthought...
Greta faints, partially recovers, and crawls back to the haven of Ecclesiantics.
I know! It's mostly as awful as it sounds. Trust me, I was not comfortable there at all.
I'm OK with the church building thing (it wasn't an old building -- it was basically a concrete box, so it's not like they were vandalising anything) but the other stuff, especially the communion. I mean there's a lot I have had to come to terms with in a Baptist communion service, but you cannot say that they don't approach it with solemnity and respect.
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Narcissism.
Posts: 7842 | From: Wood Towers | Registered: Apr 2001
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Wood
The Milkman of Human Kindness
# 7
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Posted
I met him. It went about as well as it could possibly have done.
He was gracious, and honourable, and agreed with my stand that resigning membership, given I couldn't actually live up to the membership covenant, was the only thing I could do with integrity. He said that the door was open to me to come back. He was sad. He thought I was wrong but was smart enough to know that an argument would get him nowhere.
He's not the excommunicating sort. He's a better man than that.
But the bad thing, the thing I was dreading... the disappointment. I knew he was going to say he was disappointed, and when he did, for the first time, and the other few times he said it, it was hard to take.
That's all.
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Narcissism.
Posts: 7842 | From: Wood Towers | Registered: Apr 2001
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Ophelia's Opera Therapist
Shipmate
# 4081
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Posted
Glad it went as well as it did - I was thinking of you.
The point about disappointment is understandable, but there is a very big difference between someone being disappointed that you are leaving, and being disappointed in you.
The first sounds honest, fair and realistic, based on all you have contributed.
The second would be judgemental - that you haven't lived up to his expectations. From the point about agreeing with your decision based on the circumstances, it sounds like the former to me.
Just in case that helps at all,
OOT ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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Though the bleak sky is burdened I'll pray anyway,
And though irony's drained me I'll now try sincere,
And whoever it was that brought me here
Will have to take me home. Martyn Joseph
Posts: 979 | From: Birmingham, UK | Registered: Feb 2003
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Helen-Eva
Shipmate
# 15025
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Wood:
I met him. It went about as well as it could possibly have done.
He was gracious, and honourable, and agreed with my stand that resigning membership, given I couldn't actually live up to the membership covenant, was the only thing I could do with integrity. He said that the door was open to me to come back. He was sad. He thought I was wrong but was smart enough to know that an argument would get him nowhere.
He's not the excommunicating sort. He's a better man than that.
But the bad thing, the thing I was dreading... the disappointment. I knew he was going to say he was disappointed, and when he did, for the first time, and the other few times he said it, it was hard to take.
That's all.
It sounds like you did all you could - and plenty of people wouldn't have done so much.
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I thought the radio 3 announcer said "Weber" but it turned out to be Webern. Story of my life.
Posts: 637 | From: London, hopefully in a theatre or concert hall, more likely at work | Registered: Aug 2009
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John Holding
Coffee and Cognac
# 158
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Posted
I agree that you (and he, probably) did all you could.
I have to wonder if part of his disappointment was due to learning that someone from his congregation could possibly disagree with him on the issue in question. Someone who's been there for years, done the work you've done, heard the teaching of the plain truth...and yet disagrees with him. I'd be willing to bet that's never been part of his universe, until now. WHich is why I think he's done all he can.
John
Posts: 5929 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: May 2001
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LutheranChik
Shipmate
# 9826
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Posted
Keep in mind that "disappointment" terminology is often recommended managementspeak for underperforming/contrarian employees...I know when I was in supervisory positions the literature always suggested that as a way to gently but firmly express one's displeasure: "I have to say, Bob, that I've been disappointed by your failure to meet the last two project deadlines." I wouldn't take it to heart.
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Simul iustus et peccator
http://www.lutheranchiklworddiary.blogspot.com
Posts: 6462 | From: rural Michigan, USA | Registered: Jul 2005
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Wood
The Milkman of Human Kindness
# 7
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LutheranChik:
Keep in mind that "disappointment" terminology is often recommended managementspeak for underperforming/contrarian employees...I know when I was in supervisory positions the literature always suggested that as a way to gently but firmly express one's displeasure: "I have to say, Bob, that I've been disappointed by your failure to meet the last two project deadlines." I wouldn't take it to heart.
I find that British evangelical Christians, among whom I have travelled for 16 years, use it in the same way, a nice way to express displeasure with someone.
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Narcissism.
Posts: 7842 | From: Wood Towers | Registered: Apr 2001
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
Ah well, at least he didn't tell you that you were ungracious and unsubmissive as well. Graciousness and submissiveness seem to be highly prized qualities amongst those who want people to follow them without questioning anything.
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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South Coast Kevin
Shipmate
# 16130
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Posted
Well done Wood, and may the future be brighter for you. I'm not surprised that you're struggling to accept your (former) leader being disappointed in you when your own conscience is clear and your mind settled on the path you have chosen.
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My blog - wondering about Christianity in the 21st century, chess, music, politics and other bits and bobs.
Posts: 3309 | From: The south coast (of England) | Registered: Jan 2011
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Wood:
But the bad thing, the thing I was dreading... the disappointment. I knew he was going to say he was disappointed, and when he did, for the first time, and the other few times he said it, it was hard to take.
Once is enough FF sake. Sounds to me like he was, um, gracious-ness challenged. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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multipara
Shipmate
# 2918
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Posted
Ah, yes, the old more in sorrow than in anger line.
That's just emotional blackmail dressed up in sheep's clothing.
You could have offered to pray for him...
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quod scripsi, scripsi
Posts: 4985 | From: new south wales | Registered: Jun 2002
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Wood
The Milkman of Human Kindness
# 7
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Posted
I think he was genuinely sad.
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Narcissism.
Posts: 7842 | From: Wood Towers | Registered: Apr 2001
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multipara
Shipmate
# 2918
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Posted
No doubt he was. The state of mind and the behaviour are not mutually exclusive.
Perhaps the departure of a faithful soul such as yourself might lead him to rethink matters.
m
Posts: 4985 | From: new south wales | Registered: Jun 2002
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mdijon
Shipmate
# 8520
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Posted
It's difficult to judge at such a distance and without context.
For instance, there's a world of difference between "I'm disappointed in you" and "I'm of course really disappointed that we'll be parting company but I understand the reasons".
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mdijon nojidm uoɿıqɯ ɯqıɿou
ɯqıɿou uoɿıqɯ nojidm mdijon
Posts: 12277 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2004
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Wood
The Milkman of Human Kindness
# 7
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mdijon:
It's difficult to judge at such a distance and without context.
For instance, there's a world of difference between "I'm disappointed in you" and "I'm of course really disappointed that we'll be parting company but I understand the reasons".
Yeah, and honestly, the feeling communicated, although somewhere between the two, was somewhat closer to the latter than the former.
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Narcissism.
Posts: 7842 | From: Wood Towers | Registered: Apr 2001
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
He's on a journey, too. He's just taking longer than you. Perhaps one day he will thank you for being one of his teachers on the road. (Well, you never know. Stranger things have happened.)
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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mdijon
Shipmate
# 8520
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Chorister:
He's just taking longer than you.
How do we know this? I mean, I agree with Wood's take on this specific issue, but I don't think we can necessarily generalize to evaluate an individual's position on whatever journey from that.
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mdijon nojidm uoɿıqɯ ɯqıɿou
ɯqıɿou uoɿıqɯ nojidm mdijon
Posts: 12277 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2004
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Wood
The Milkman of Human Kindness
# 7
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Posted
It's true.
We are of course all on journeys... but we really don't have any way of knowing where folks are going. Or how quickly.
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Narcissism.
Posts: 7842 | From: Wood Towers | Registered: Apr 2001
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ExclamationMark
Shipmate
# 14715
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Posted
To what extent does this show that the leader involved is as sincere in his beliefs as Wood?
Posts: 3845 | From: A new Jerusalem | Registered: Apr 2009
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Wood
The Milkman of Human Kindness
# 7
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
To what extent does this show that the leader involved is as sincere in his beliefs as Wood?
In the end, I know the guy, much better than his second-in-command. He's gone over 15 years in the same church from being the church's youth worker, to being assistant pastor, to being the senior pastor. Mrs Wood is good friends with his wife.
I think that he's sincere.
He asked me if this was about the authority of Scripture; I said no, and explained that I believed very strongly that two Christians who view Scripture as central to the revelation etc. God's Word word blah blah blah basis of Christian belief blah blah blah inevitably pick and choose what they believe, and that there are alternative interpretations of the passages in question which one can believe without abandoning the Bible and so on, and he realised that I had actually read some stuff and thought about it and that an argument was going to be counterproductive.
So we changed the subject and talked about it a bit more and I made the point that if I'm right, I've got to go, and if I'm wrong — and I said I could be, although I'm fairly sure I'm not — I still have to go, because I can't honestly accede to the membership covenant anymore, because to be part of it you have to accept the Evengelical Alliance Basis of Faith, which I mostly don't, these days.
And I said that the only path I could take with integrity was to resign my membership. And he looked like he was about to cry and said the door was always going to be open. And I said, OK.
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Narcissism.
Posts: 7842 | From: Wood Towers | Registered: Apr 2001
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mdijon
Shipmate
# 8520
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Posted
God it all sounds really difficult.
I think we can't really know if he's sincere in his beliefs. Perhaps he is as sincere as any of us, perhaps he isn't. Wood is in a better position to judge than us, but none of us really know.
The "disappointment" phrases might reflect that his inner not-so-good-evangelical was screaming "Fucking hell, this isn't supposed to happen" but that couldn't come out. So what came out was "disappointment".
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mdijon nojidm uoɿıqɯ ɯqıɿou
ɯqıɿou uoɿıqɯ nojidm mdijon
Posts: 12277 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2004
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Wood
The Milkman of Human Kindness
# 7
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Posted
Quite.
And on the flip side, you only have my word as posted here as to my own sincerity.
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Narcissism.
Posts: 7842 | From: Wood Towers | Registered: Apr 2001
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
But even if this was all 'hypothetical' and Wood isn't really leaving a church at all, it's still good for us to discuss. It's not exactly an unfamiliar scenario. There would be another 'Wood' out there, going through exactly the same thing. And one day it might be us, if it hasn't been already.
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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Belle Ringer
Shipmate
# 13379
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mdijon:
The "disappointment" phrases might reflect that his inner not-so-good-evangelical was screaming "Fucking hell, this isn't supposed to happen" but that couldn't come out. So what came out was "disappointment".
I'm trying to think what he should have said. I suppose ideally something like "I trust your integrity in wanting to follow God, and I trust God to lead you wherever you should go; thank you for your years of service here, go in peace."
But I guess that's unrealistic. Pastor has lost a hard worker, and has failed to convince with what he thinks is truth, and probably believes one of "his sheep" is now fallen into error. He is suffering loss of a worker and perhaps loss of confidence is his own capability as a leader. Loss is a hard emotional position from which to bless the one causing or demonstrating the loss.
I give him a lot of credit for not scolding or condemning, as too often happens in this kind of situation.
Posts: 5830 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2008
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Wood
The Milkman of Human Kindness
# 7
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Belle Ringer:
But I guess that's unrealistic. Pastor has lost a hard worker, and has failed to convince with what he thinks is truth, and probably believes one of "his sheep" is now fallen into error. He is suffering loss of a worker and perhaps loss of confidence is his own capability as a leader. Loss is a hard emotional position from which to bless the one causing or demonstrating the loss.
I give him a lot of credit for not scolding or condemning, as too often happens in this kind of situation.
See, I think this gets across how I'm feeling. Like I said, it was a pretty hard meeting, but nothing was said in anger.
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Narcissism.
Posts: 7842 | From: Wood Towers | Registered: Apr 2001
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Wood
The Milkman of Human Kindness
# 7
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Posted
One thing I forgot to add but in hindsight seems pretty significant is that the pastor asked - honestly - what he should say to the people who were asking where we've gone.
I thought that a very good gesture.
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Narcissism.
Posts: 7842 | From: Wood Towers | Registered: Apr 2001
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goperryrevs
Shipmtae
# 13504
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Posted
Wood, your PM inbox is full.
I'm glad your meeting with your minister went as well as could be hoped.
At the beginning of your thread you said:
quote:
I don't post here much these days, because generally I don't have anything to say that other people can't say better.
Well, I for one hope you stick around for a bit longer. I actually think that you say things better than a lot of other people!
I tend to read a lot more than I post, so I get it - but I've valued your contributions over the last few weeks, and hope that there'll be a few more.
Thanks for this thread.
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"Keep your eye on the donut, not on the hole." - David Lynch
Posts: 2098 | From: Midlands | Registered: Mar 2008
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Wood
The Milkman of Human Kindness
# 7
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Posted
It's not full anymore. Try again.
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Narcissism.
Posts: 7842 | From: Wood Towers | Registered: Apr 2001
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ExclamationMark
Shipmate
# 14715
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Wood:
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
To what extent does this show that the leader involved is as sincere in his beliefs as Wood?
He's gone over 15 years in the same church from being the church's youth worker, to being assistant pastor, to being the senior pastor. Mrs Wood is good friends with his wife.
Tangent I know - but it would be interesting for other people's views of this kind of succession. I am not necessarily in favour of it myself.
Wood I really feel for you. I've been in the same place over the same issue but in my case it was a matter of integrity that I couldn't remain with teaching and a lifestyle that I considered didn't square with what the bible said. I felt that the leader's own gay lifestyle was the issue, esp as it was an "open secret" in a denomination that (then in the 1980's) was supposedly very anti: seems that a certain higher up turned a blind eye.
Couldn't agree with the position nor the theology and couldn't stick the hypocrisy - So I walked. Would I do different today? Probably not but that doesn't stop me respecting you for the courage of your convictions.
Posts: 3845 | From: A new Jerusalem | Registered: Apr 2009
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Wood
The Milkman of Human Kindness
# 7
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
quote:
Originally posted by Wood:
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
To what extent does this show that the leader involved is as sincere in his beliefs as Wood?
He's gone over 15 years in the same church from being the church's youth worker, to being assistant pastor, to being the senior pastor. Mrs Wood is good friends with his wife.
Tangent I know - but it would be interesting for other people's views of this kind of succession. I am not necessarily in favour of it myself.
I think it might be worth its own thread.
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Narcissism.
Posts: 7842 | From: Wood Towers | Registered: Apr 2001
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Autenrieth Road
Shipmate
# 10509
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Wood:
One thing I forgot to add but in hindsight seems pretty significant is that the pastor asked - honestly - what he should say to the people who were asking where we've gone.
What did you tell him?
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Truth
Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005
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Wood
The Milkman of Human Kindness
# 7
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
quote:
Originally posted by Wood:
One thing I forgot to add but in hindsight seems pretty significant is that the pastor asked - honestly - what he should say to the people who were asking where we've gone.
What did you tell him?
I said to say:
• Yes, I'd left;
• No, it wasn't for a personal problem, it was a matter of belief and conscience;
• If they wanted to know more, they could come talk to me.
He was fine with that.
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Narcissism.
Posts: 7842 | From: Wood Towers | Registered: Apr 2001
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mdijon
Shipmate
# 8520
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Posted
That sounds very sensible. I'd have been completely flustered by that question - but presumably you'd thought about if before.
Is it worth telling people specifically that you're still a Christian or was that implicit anyway?
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mdijon nojidm uoɿıqɯ ɯqıɿou
ɯqıɿou uoɿıqɯ nojidm mdijon
Posts: 12277 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2004
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Wood
The Milkman of Human Kindness
# 7
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mdijon:
That sounds very sensible. I'd have been completely flustered by that question - but presumably you'd thought about if before.
Is it worth telling people specifically that you're still a Christian or was that implicit anyway?
Well, that's a toughie, innit. I think I'm still a Christian. I don't know what he thinks about that.
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Narcissism.
Posts: 7842 | From: Wood Towers | Registered: Apr 2001
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mdijon
Shipmate
# 8520
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Posted
Hmmmm. I see the wisdom in avoiding that argument - it could well have soured the meeting.
Perhaps saying that you still believe in God and turn to Christ and the cross for the forgiveness of sins would be harder to argue with.
[ 17. February 2011, 15:13: Message edited by: mdijon ]
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mdijon nojidm uoɿıqɯ ɯqıɿou
ɯqıɿou uoɿıqɯ nojidm mdijon
Posts: 12277 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2004
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Wood
The Milkman of Human Kindness
# 7
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Posted
My problem there is that I never used that sort of language even in those two years when I was a good little evangelical, and it ain't fooling no one.
But I do see your point. I'm sure I could have said something. But I felt it better not to raise it at all.
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Narcissism.
Posts: 7842 | From: Wood Towers | Registered: Apr 2001
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mdijon
Shipmate
# 8520
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Posted
You could have been right. The statement may have provoked more probing.
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mdijon nojidm uoɿıqɯ ɯqıɿou
ɯqıɿou uoɿıqɯ nojidm mdijon
Posts: 12277 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2004
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Wood
The Milkman of Human Kindness
# 7
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Posted
A coda.
So a close friend, who also left the church over the same thing, but who did not write a letter and was not a member and therefore did not have to resign, said to me yesterday that she had only heard from two people who had missed her.
But she was not counting the group of friends with whom she had discussed it (and that reminds me, I really have to sort things out with [name of friend here], who still hasn't spoken to me and who is still as far as I know hurt that I up and left with my family without consulting her on the subject beforehand).
And I was reminded of what the Pastor asked me, about what he should say to all the people asking where I had gone. Because they were asking enough for him to feel he should have a response ready for when people asked. And one person has actually come round and asked how I am and asked why.
But that doesn't mean that I am actually not being missed. I think of the number of times that people have left the church and how I wondered where they went, and asked people "what happened to Fred?" or whatever and then did nothing about going to find them or track them down to see how they were, partly oput of some idea that they might want to be left alone, partly because I didn't know how to approach them, partly because I was just plain lazy, I suppose.
My friend, I said, was wrong to conceive a hurt. That two people outside of the immmediate group of friends that (I said) she was taking for granted had come to find her was actually a credit to the church, because all too often, no one says anything. And people do miss her, and me. But they're not saying. And that's OK.
Honestly, I'm glad they're not. It's enough to know and it makes it easier. But I understand why someone might want to be asked.
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Narcissism.
Posts: 7842 | From: Wood Towers | Registered: Apr 2001
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Tubbs
Miss Congeniality
# 440
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Posted
There’s also the reverse of that – when you leave, how many people do you reach out too in the hope of not losing touch? (Or to paraphrase Steve Chalke, when you complain that no one’s done such and such, ask yourself how many times you’ve done that this week).
[I mention this only because I know this was something I was really crap at]
Tubbs
[ 28. February 2011, 13:38: Message edited by: Tubbs ]
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"It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it up and remove all doubt" - Dennis Thatcher. My blog. Decide for yourself which I am
Posts: 12701 | From: Someplace strange | Registered: Jun 2001
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Wood
The Milkman of Human Kindness
# 7
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Tubbs:
There’s also the reverse of that – when you leave, how many people do you reach out to in the hope of not losing touch? (Or to paraphrase Steve Chalke, when you complain that no one’s done such and such, ask yourself how many times you’ve done that this week).
Well, quite.
I'm kind of in a wobbly state with a number of friends. It's even harder than I thought it would be.
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Narcissism.
Posts: 7842 | From: Wood Towers | Registered: Apr 2001
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Tubbs
Miss Congeniality
# 440
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Wood:
quote:
Originally posted by Tubbs:
There’s also the reverse of that – when you leave, how many people do you reach out to in the hope of not losing touch? (Or to paraphrase Steve Chalke, when you complain that no one’s done such and such, ask yourself how many times you’ve done that this week).
Well, quite.
I'm kind of in a wobbly state with a number of friends. It's even harder than I thought it would be.
Sorry, I realised after posting that sounded way more harsh than it was meant to. These things are never easy - particularly when there's no good outcome. (Leaving is hard, but staying when your conscience says you shouldn't would be worse imo).
We found that once you took the church in common thing away, we had less friends than we thought. ![[Frown]](frown.gif) There are still people I'm sad we left behind. OTH, the friends we kept have seen us through all sorts of sh*t.
Tubbs
[ 28. February 2011, 13:47: Message edited by: Tubbs ]
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"It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it up and remove all doubt" - Dennis Thatcher. My blog. Decide for yourself which I am
Posts: 12701 | From: Someplace strange | Registered: Jun 2001
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
From experience, one day you will be able to look back, from a position of belonging to new groups with new friends, and be glad that you also know all those other people because of a church you used to go to once. But it takes a long time to get to that stage. Hang in there.
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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Gill H
Shipmate
# 68
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by goperryrevs:
At the beginning of your thread you said:
quote:
I don't post here much these days, because generally I don't have anything to say that other people can't say better.
Well, I for one hope you stick around for a bit longer. I actually think that you say things better than a lot of other people!
Wood, your Ship voice is unique. I've always found your posts enjoyable and often thought-provoking. It's up to you how often you post, of course, but you are one of those people whose avatar makes me more likely to read a post.
(And now you owe me a Marshmallow Sundae for the ego-massage... ![[Razz]](tongue.gif) )
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*sigh* We can’t all be Alan Cresswell.
- Lyda Rose
Posts: 9313 | From: London | Registered: May 2001
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Tubbs
Miss Congeniality
# 440
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Chorister:
From experience, one day you will be able to look back, from a position of belonging to new groups with new friends, and be glad that you also know all those other people because of a church you used to go to once. But it takes a long time to get to that stage. Hang in there.
Very much so. IME, as you're the one who has left, you'll be the one who'll need to reach out to the people you want to keep in touch with in the early days. [Which was what I was trying to get at yesterday. It's really easy to get into a mindset of "no one's phoned ..." and forget that you haven't phoned either. I am particularly terrible at calling people].
It's worth - once you've had the initial conversation about Why We Left - avoiding the issue in future unless they bring it up. Endless rehashes get really dull - for you as well as them.
Tubbs
[ 01. March 2011, 11:13: Message edited by: Tubbs ]
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"It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it up and remove all doubt" - Dennis Thatcher. My blog. Decide for yourself which I am
Posts: 12701 | From: Someplace strange | Registered: Jun 2001
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Wood
The Milkman of Human Kindness
# 7
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Tubbs:
It's really easy to get into a mindset of "no one's phoned ..." and forget that you haven't phoned either. I am particularly terrible at calling people].
Yeah. Me too. I leave it too long and never know what to say.
quote:
It's worth - once you've had the initial conversation about Why We Left - avoiding the issue in future unless they bring it up. Endless rehashes get really dull - for you as well as them.
I'm finding that already. I made a point of not rehashing quite early on.
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Narcissism.
Posts: 7842 | From: Wood Towers | Registered: Apr 2001
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