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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Hell: Be afraid, "Islamic State"
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Demas
Ship's Deserter
# 24
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Posted
It would have been better for you if someone had placed a millstone around your neck and thrown you in the sea. It would have been better for you if you had never been born.
Do you think you can behead God's children and rape their mothers and then hide from from their Father?
One day the full awareness of your crimes will fall upon you like fire.
[ 22. January 2015, 02:04: Message edited by: Ariston ]
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They did not appear very religious; that is, they were not melancholy; and I therefore suspected they had not much piety - Life of Rev John Murray
Posts: 1894 | From: Thessalonica | Registered: May 2004
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
And a hell call for you for believing that only Christians are God's children.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Demas
Ship's Deserter
# 24
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Posted
Jesus wept. I neither said nor implied the word 'only' nor do I believe it.
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They did not appear very religious; that is, they were not melancholy; and I therefore suspected they had not much piety - Life of Rev John Murray
Posts: 1894 | From: Thessalonica | Registered: May 2004
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Jon in the Nati
Shipmate
# 15849
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Posted
No, you apparently believe that war is something to be celebrated. And another American war, to boot. Team America, here to save the day. Fuck yeah.
You've posted this right where you belong.
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Homer: Aww, this isn't about Jesus, is it?
Lovejoy: All things are about Jesus, Homer. Except this.
Posts: 773 | From: Region formerly known as the Biretta Belt | Registered: Aug 2010
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ChastMastr
Shipmate
# 716
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Posted
I do think that trying to actually help people who are being exterminated is a good reason to intervene militarily (and, perhaps especially, since the US was responsible for making this damn ISIS takeover more possible, cleaning up the effects of our own mistakes rather than washing our hands like Pilate), but... wow, awkward thread.
I am genuinely glad we are intervening and I pray that this stops some genuinely horrible people (vastly worse than Hussein) from just coming in and taking Iraq over, and from slaughtering countless innocent civilians. But after the last decade or so, the US of all western nations has no damn right to crow about how virtuous we are by taking this action. By removing one of the few secular governments from power, we helped make this happen, as far as I am concerned.
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My essays on comics continuity: http://chastmastr.tumblr.com/tagged/continuity
Posts: 14068 | From: Clearwater, Florida | Registered: Jul 2001
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Demas
Ship's Deserter
# 24
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jon in the Nati:
No, you apparently believe that war is something to be celebrated. And another American war, to boot. Team America, here to save the day. Fuck yeah.
You've posted this right where you belong.
Is it your custom to make up lies about people? I have never done or said any of these things! ![[Ultra confused]](graemlins/confused2.gif)
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They did not appear very religious; that is, they were not melancholy; and I therefore suspected they had not much piety - Life of Rev John Murray
Posts: 1894 | From: Thessalonica | Registered: May 2004
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Zappa
Ship's Wake
# 8433
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jon in the Nati:
No, you apparently believe that war is something to be celebrated. And another American war, to boot. Team America, here to save the day. Fuck yeah.
You've posted this right where you belong.
I'm not sure where that came from. I thought the OP had an eschatological tone rather than a celebration of US intervention. Remembering the Yazidi and Shi'ite minorities who are also victims of this Frankenstein's monster, and I think Demas has, I'm not sure that anything but military response is possible. Sitting by and wringing hands and weeping alas and alack sure as hell ain't gonna help, and even if some sort of choking of IS supply lines were possible an entire genocide of the Yazidi and Christian communities, and wholesale slaughter of Shi'a, would take place while it was beginning to take effect.
[ 09. August 2014, 09:37: Message edited by: Zappa ]
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shameless self promotion - because I think it's worth it
and mayhap this too: http://broken-moments.blogspot.co.nz/
Posts: 18917 | From: "Central" is all they call it | Registered: Sep 2004
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Demas
Ship's Deserter
# 24
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Zappa:
I thought the OP had an eschatological tone rather than a celebration of US intervention.
Yes! And yes, the little Yazidi children dying on the mountain and the little Shi'ite children, they too have a loving Father, who will see justice roll down like waters.
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They did not appear very religious; that is, they were not melancholy; and I therefore suspected they had not much piety - Life of Rev John Murray
Posts: 1894 | From: Thessalonica | Registered: May 2004
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ChastMastr
Shipmate
# 716
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Posted
To be fair--at least, for me, speaking as someone in the US who was against GWB's war in Iraq--there's a sense of "God damn it, not again!" especially after the US' fairly arrogant, self-serving pseudo-white-hat military adventurism. So I can profoundly appreciate any concern, frustration, or just plain downright paranoia about the US going into Iraq again after the last time, because we were so justified (aluminum tubes!) and it worked out so well before (Mission Accomplished!).
But as I said the other day when this was on TV, I believe this is the kind of situation in which we should intervene.
I do wish it was more of a UN combined thing rather than just the US going in, but people are dying of thirst on that damn mountain because if they come down they'll be exterminated, so... somebody's got to do something.
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My essays on comics continuity: http://chastmastr.tumblr.com/tagged/continuity
Posts: 14068 | From: Clearwater, Florida | Registered: Jul 2001
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ChastMastr
Shipmate
# 716
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Demas:
Yes! And yes, the little Yazidi children dying on the mountain and the little Shi'ite children, they too have a loving Father, who will see justice roll down like waters.
Amen. Please, God, amen.
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My essays on comics continuity: http://chastmastr.tumblr.com/tagged/continuity
Posts: 14068 | From: Clearwater, Florida | Registered: Jul 2001
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
The thing is, someone has to do something.
I'd also prefer it if it were some kind of concerted UN action. Ideally, to be brutally frank - I wish it were some kind of joint UN, US, EU and Russia thing ... it might stop us falling out over Ukraine and concentrate efforts against a common foe - the radical jihadists.
This isn't a war on Islam - nor should it become one. The Shia's are fighting the Sunni extremists of Islamic State.
Sure, it's a mess of our own making but we can't stand by and watch the kind of atrocities that are taking place at the hands of Islamic State.
What the longer term solution is, heaven only knows - but something has to be done both in terms of humanitarian aid and, I'm afraid, the use of necessary force.
I'm normally pretty much a pacifist but when you've got fanatics offering people of converting, being fined or being killed then something has to be done to stop them.
The problem is, none of us have a good track-record in dealing with this stuff.
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
Yup, afraid so. I wish this were a UN thing too, and I'm not sure of the legality of it. But someone has to do something in the short term to stop ISIS, and I can't see anything that might work better.
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My beard is a testament to my masculinity and virility, and demonstrates that I am a real man. Trouble is, bits of quiche sometimes get caught in it.
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
Doing something "Because something has to be done" is a lousy reason. When laws are made or changed on that basis, you get bad law. When military intervention is attempted, in haste, things go the same way. See Gulf II, impressive military intervention, zero political objective, result: Growth of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt and, I suppose, ISIS.
It's already been stated that the Shia are fighting the Sunnis of ISIS. This intervention is going to identify the Shia too closely with the USA, which will lose them friends and support in the Arab world. Why not provide them with backup and let people who are familiar with the territory, speak the language and understand the people do any fighting that needs to be done?
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
The kurdish peshmurga managed to get 11,000 people off sinjar mountain.
I think this situation is somewhat unusual, in most recent conflicts - radical faith groups have tried to establish political control, then make everyone follow outward rules.
IS was apparently offering massarcre populations wholesale - giving a situation closer to Rwanda than Syria.
I have been listening to a history of the ancient world from the first written records to the fall of Rome. It is depressing how similar what is happening in the middle east now, is, to what was happening three thousand years ago.
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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Jon in the Nati
Shipmate
# 15849
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Posted
quote:
I'm not sure where that came from. I thought the OP had an eschatological tone rather than a celebration of US intervention.
Funny, I didn't read it that way at all.
On the day on which the United States began airstrikes against ISIS, Demas makes this somewhat cryptic but obviously triumphalist post, telling ISIS that they will pay for their crimes. I interpreted this as him connecting the two, dangerously close to suggesting that US intervention with bombs and pointy things is divine judgment (the "hide from their Father" bit).
Given how hostile Demas has been to Islam in general on this thread, I don't think my interpretation is far off.
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Homer: Aww, this isn't about Jesus, is it?
Lovejoy: All things are about Jesus, Homer. Except this.
Posts: 773 | From: Region formerly known as the Biretta Belt | Registered: Aug 2010
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Evangeline
Shipmate
# 7002
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Posted
quote:
Why not provide them with backup and let people who are familiar with the territory, speak the language and understand the people do any fighting that needs to be done?
That's been done before-the US provided "backup" to the Taliban and look where that got us. I'm vehemently opposed to arming or supporting anyone-that's too dangerous, it should be direct intervention or nothing.
I'm also opposed to sitting on our hands doing nothing whilst people are being slaughtered too. No solution is perfect but the more the US delays the stronger they get and that's not going to do anyone any good.
Posts: 2871 | From: "A capsule of modernity afloat in a wild sea" | Registered: May 2004
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Uncle Pete
Loyaute me lie
# 10422
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Posted
I am appalled. Tears of impotency are rolling down my grizzled cheeks. I pray for all children of God, in whatever manifestation, who are caught up in this madness.
Argue all you want. Only, I beg you, I implore you, do not provide graphic images. I don't need them, nor do I want to ever, see them again. They are burnt in my memory.
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Even more so than I was before
Posts: 20466 | From: No longer where I was | Registered: Sep 2005
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Demas
Ship's Deserter
# 24
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jon in the Nati:
quote:
I'm not sure where that came from. I thought the OP had an eschatological tone rather than a celebration of US intervention.
Funny, I didn't read it that way at all.
Let me reassure you. The tone of my OP is that of anger not triumph. I can find absolutely nothing to be triumphant about in the current horrific situation.
And I was certainly not threatening the self-described "Islamic State" with mere US bombs. The US was not in my mind at all and I cannot imagine ISIS are scared of it in any case.
quote:
Originally posted by Jon in the Nati:
Given how hostile Demas has been to Islam in general on this thread, I don't think my interpretation is far off.
Oh fuck off. I am not 'hostile to Islam in general'. Reasonable people can read the thread and see my contribution for themselves. I'm not going to debate here with someone who for some unknown reason sees everything I write through the lens of an assumption of bad faith.
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They did not appear very religious; that is, they were not melancholy; and I therefore suspected they had not much piety - Life of Rev John Murray
Posts: 1894 | From: Thessalonica | Registered: May 2004
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Demas:
Do you think you can behead God's children and rape their mothers and then hide from from their Father?
ISIS' father is the devil, who chuckles with glee over what they are doing.
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
I've seen some of the graphic images online too. If they are for real then ...
(speechless)
Seriously, Sioni and others, I'd generally be the first to jump up and down about US airstrikes anywhere but this time it's different.
Even the most conservative accounts accept that there is potential genocide going on here.
It has got to be stopped.
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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Jay-Emm
Shipmate
# 11411
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Posted
Another in the something needs to be done quickly and right and I'd hate to be in Obama/Cameroons/etc shoes. Quick might be possible, Right I really don't know.
Appeasement/Danegeld blatantly won't work.
Massed intervention might have an effect like that on the new French/Russian/Iranian of 'proving' that they've been too nice (though it's hard to see how Is can get any worse or see themselves as the reacting party) or that they can only escalate (though again how?). But if there's any misfires then even more so.
And on top of that you've always got the worry you're being played for a sucker.
Limited intervention has it's own problems.
[ 09. August 2014, 18:41: Message edited by: Jay-Emm ]
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Arminian
Shipmate
# 16607
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Posted
When I saw ISIS were putting 'N' on peoples houses and demanding they leave or die it reminded me of Hitler's tactics with the Jews. The ideology behind ISIS is similar to fascism. Instead of the Aryan super race, its the ISIS caliphate. Brutal towards dissent, and keeps discipline through fear.
Lets hope the world doesn't make the mistake of thinking this problem will go away on its own. I hated the war in Iraq, but I don't see any other way of stopping this evil ideology other than by armed conflict. What they are doing is genocide by forcing hundreds of thousands into the wilderness where they will die. ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
Posts: 157 | From: London | Registered: Aug 2011
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
I must admit I have suddenly found that I am not as pacifist as I thought I was.
I would like to arm women in the areas affected by ISIS and Boko Haram.
There is something odd about the tactic of kidnapping women (which I found, to my surprise in a Sherlock Holmes story, to have been an accusation made against the very early, Brigham Young period, Mormons). And about the emphasis on the 72 virgins (or, in the Syriac, raisins). Why are these men unable to find partners normally? (Even normally for their culture?)
I feel that the histories of Jael, Judith and even Delilah (not her fault she was born on the wrong side), should be taught to women in the area.
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
Traditionally fighters displaced from their home communities by military campaigns have solved the problem of sex with prostitutes and rape. This becomes an issue if you are claiming religious purity.
So your fighters can't have sex unless their married, in the middle of a war zone they can't date - but provided with a wife they can claim a bonus "successful" conversion.
But the process itself is not really different to the "comfort women" or mass rapes of other conflicts.
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
Poor little diddums can't manage without sex. It's not necessary in the same way as food, water, or somewhere to deposit effluent.
The Janissaries did, having been castrated, and they were pretty fearsome in battle.
I seem to recall that captives in some societies not a long way in geography or belief from the multinamed bunch of subhuman "warriors" who only take on those weaker than themselves* expected the same thing done to them, and by the women.
*Seen an analysis - they turn aside when they see serious opposition.
[ 10. August 2014, 16:03: Message edited by: Penny S ]
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
Hey, let's invade Iraq again. Are there weapons of mass destruction in view?
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
Poor little diddums can't manage without sex.
It's not about the home comforts. Sex and aggression are closely linked. Rape is an act of war, and has been systematically deployed as such, for example in Bosnia and Bangladesh.
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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Stetson
Shipmate
# 9597
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet:
Hey, let's invade Iraq again. Are there weapons of mass destruction in view?
I concur with the argument being made sarcastically here.
We seem to have fallen into a pattern in which an intervention is staged on the grounds that things in an area are fucked up. Then, when the intervention leads things to being even more fucked up, we use the new state of chaos to justify another interventuion.
The humanitarian argument for an unprovoked war against Iraq relied heavily on the idea that Saddam was a special case, a brand of evil unsurpassed anywhere else in the world. So, no, we're not obligated to attack every dictator(so the argument went), just Saddam, because an evil beyond his is incomprehensible.
Well, apparently, with Saddam gone, we are IN FACT able to comprehend an evil beyond his, ISIS. And these Islamic nutbars warrant another intervention, because, well, you know, they are the REALLY bad guys. We couldn't possibly have foreseen them when we ousted Saddam, but here they are.
At some point, you simply have to break the cycle by deciding that there will be no more interventions, no matter how bad the atrocities are. Because if recent history has shown us anything, it is that these interventions don't do anything to stop further atrocities from occuring.
[ 10. August 2014, 17:33: Message edited by: Stetson ]
Posts: 6574 | From: back and forth between bible belts | Registered: Jun 2005
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
Poor little diddums can't manage without sex.
It's not about the home comforts. Sex and aggression are closely linked. Rape is an act of war, and has been systematically deployed as such, for example in Bosnia and Bangladesh.
My reaction then was to the suggestion that sex was a problem for fighters that needed to be solved by dehumanising and using whatever women could be found.
I know there's a connection between aggression and the urge for sex - I seem to recall an experiment which reversed things a bit by having male subjects cross a bridge before having to deal with a threat. If there was an attractive girl standing on the bridge, they were more aggresive than if not. Really bad design, in my view. If men were rendered incapable of sex when feeling aggressive, the world would be a much nicer place all round. (And if anyone mutters about the Fall, they might like to think about how the connection was able to be enabled if the potential wasn't built in in the first place.) I know that there have been moves to identify war related rape and abuse as a war crime, but somehow I don't think those crazed heirs of the Hashishin are going to take much notice of that.
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
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Stetson
Shipmate
# 9597
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Posted
I'd also like to point out that that these airstrikes are being ordered by the man who, less than a year ago, was pushing for his country to launch airstrikes against the Baathist regime in Syria.
Had those airstrikes been carried out, what effect would the undermining or possibly the toppling of Assad have had on the fortunes of ISIS in Syria?
Posts: 6574 | From: back and forth between bible belts | Registered: Jun 2005
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
If Stormin' Norman had had his way, then the allies in the 1st Gulf War would have pressed onto Baghdad and toppled his regime back then.
That would have certainly destablised the area and there would have sectarian violence back then too. One could argue, though, that it would have been done with the backing of the other Arab nations that were supporting the coalition forces at that time.
I'm not suggesting that would have been the right course of action, and agree that the cycle of intervention has to be stopped somewhere.
I'm not sure this is the right time, to be honest.
We now know that Hussein didn't WMDs at the time of the invasion ... but he certainly did have them at one point - and he used them against the Kurds. Yhen there was the Supergun thing and there were certainly some nasty weapons going into Iraq - some of them with the complicity of both the US and the USSR.
Nobody comes out of any of this smelling of roses.
But what to do about ISIS? We can't ignore them.
It's also a broader issue than ISIS. How did some 1,700 of so ISIS fighters rout 350,000 Iraqi regulars at Mosul?
It's clear that some of the Shia don't want to take on the Sunni Islamic State psychos.
I've seen it suggested online that the sectarian Shia regime in Iraq is waiting for Islamic State to do its own ethnic cleansing for them - to drive out the Yazidis, Christians and other minorities in order for Iraq to become a Shia dominated state.
That might be a very cynical view, but the Iraqi governments lack of success against what appear to be a relatively small number of Islamic State fighters begs a few questions.
Of course, I'd much rather see humanitarian aid drops rather than bombs but what happens if Islamic State head for the areas where the Yazidis and Christians are taking refuge?
Even the most conservative accounts suggest that there are dreadful, dreadful atrocities taking place - beheadings, shootings, rapes, forced marriages, forced FGM even ...
I was opposed to the invasion of Iraq. I am not opposed to limited military action against Islamic State.
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
Cross-posted ... yes, Obama was advocating the bombing of Syria and to my mind that would have been things even worse.
Assad is a monster but some of these rebels are even worse.
My Orthodox pals have long been warning about ISIS/Islamic State ... long before they appeared on our media and radar screens.
Ok, so some of them will have a fairly anti-Western agenda, but whilst some can go too far that way, I think - they do have contacts on the ground over there ... they could see this coming for a while and no-one was listening.
This article deftly summarises the dilemma for those of us who are on the lefty liberal side in all of this:
http://hopisen.com/2014/not-in-my-name/
[link corrected by host. Gamaliel, please check these things]
[ 10. August 2014, 18:21: Message edited by: Sioni Sais ]
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Stetson:
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet:
Hey, let's invade Iraq again. Are there weapons of mass destruction in view?
I concur with the argument being made sarcastically here.
We seem to have fallen into a pattern in which an intervention is staged on the grounds that things in an area are fucked up. Then, when the intervention leads things to being even more fucked up, we use the new state of chaos to justify another interventuion.
The humanitarian argument for an unprovoked war against Iraq relied heavily on the idea that Saddam was a special case, a brand of evil unsurpassed anywhere else in the world. So, no, we're not obligated to attack every dictator(so the argument went), just Saddam, because an evil beyond his is incomprehensible.
Well, apparently, with Saddam gone, we are IN FACT able to comprehend an evil beyond his, ISIS. And these Islamic nutbars warrant another intervention, because, well, you know, they are the REALLY bad guys. We couldn't possibly have foreseen them when we ousted Saddam, but here they are.
At some point, you simply have to break the cycle by deciding that there will be no more interventions, no matter how bad the atrocities are. Because if recent history has shown us anything, it is that these interventions don't do anything to stop further atrocities from occuring.
But there's oil in them hills isn't there?
The UN peacekeeping missions used to work, before the unilateralists and economic developmentalists had their way.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Stetson
Shipmate
# 9597
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Posted
Fair enough, Gamaliel. Reasonable people can disagree about these things, even in Hell.
One thing, though...
quote:
Even the most conservative accounts suggest that there are dreadful, dreadful atrocities taking place - beheadings, shootings, rapes, forced marriages, forced FGM even ...
The FMG allegations seem to be of somewhat debatable veracity.
People can draw their own conclusions, though I will say that it did seem a little odd to me that ISIS would suddenly, out of the blue and in total contradiction to their regional traditions, institute a practice that is so often held up by westerners as exemplifying the barbarism of Islam.
And, in any case, if we're going to justify bombing people on the grounds that they practice FMG, well, there are about two dozen countries in northern Africa we should be bombing.
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I have the power...Lucifer is lord!
Posts: 6574 | From: back and forth between bible belts | Registered: Jun 2005
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Stetson
Shipmate
# 9597
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Posted
Gamaliel wrote:
quote:
Cross-posted ... yes, Obama was advocating the bombing of Syria and to my mind that would have been things even worse.
Assad is a monster but some of these rebels are even worse.
Yeah, it's like a year ago, Obama was pushing for airstrikes that could have put ISIS in the driver's seat in Syria, and was thwarted in this endeavour only by a congressional uprising.
Now, we're being asked to trust this same man when he tells us that airstrikes are needed to stop ISIS from getting into the driver's seat in Iraq.
I know irony, in and of itself, is not a valid argument against doing something. But sometimes, it just kinda makes you stop and go "WTF?"
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I have the power...Lucifer is lord!
Posts: 6574 | From: back and forth between bible belts | Registered: Jun 2005
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Stetson
Shipmate
# 9597
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Posted
No Prophet wrote:
quote:
The UN peacekeeping missions used to work, before the unilateralists and economic developmentalists had their way. [/QB]
Yeah, I pretty much missed out on the Golden Age Of Peacekeeping.
Within my lifetime, we went from "Oh those Canucks, keeping the people of Cyprus safe and sound!!" to "Oh those Canucks, raping and beating Somali teenagers to death while yelling Heil Hitler."
[ 10. August 2014, 18:38: Message edited by: Stetson ]
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I have the power...Lucifer is lord!
Posts: 6574 | From: back and forth between bible belts | Registered: Jun 2005
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
Sure, the whole things a mess ... what's happening is that events are moving faster than the policy makers on Capitol Hill and in London, the Kremlin, Paris, Berlin and elsewhere can keep up with ...
There's a need for cool-heads all round. I'm glad both Obama and Cameron were defeated over their gung-ho stance on Syria.
In this instance, though, with what's come to light from ISIS/Islamic State's actions some kind of response is justifiable.
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet:
Hey, let's invade Iraq again. Are there weapons of mass destruction in view?
No there are not,(yet anyway).
Just a determined band of marauders heading for our oil , and that simply won't do.
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Change is the only certainty of existence
Posts: 3206 | From: U.K. | Registered: Dec 2011
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
I'm not an expert on the Middle East, and it's a bit more difficult to follow where I am right now. But I've read about some ISIS attacks on the Kurds. Surely the Kurds would be able to fend off those attacks? I imagine that they have a well-organized defence force that is experienced in fighting, even if such a thing is illegal under the Iraqi autonomy they have now. I can't imagine now that ISIS puts Baghdad on the defence which could bring their own country closer into view, that they're going to give it away to ISIS?
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
Analysis I heard said the kurds had to try to recapture something isis had already taken, and the isis forces spotted a gap and went for a key strategic target, they then had to pull away forces guarding qaraqoosh to protect that (Irbil I think) and isis were able to take qaraqoosh and other soft targets.
(Note, this half remembered from radio 4, I can't swear to it.)
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
But no-one really wants the Kurds to be independent and assert their desire for a homeland. Turkey particularly. The Kurds need to be powerful, just not too powerful: who knows what they might become. Yesterday's Afghan freedom fighters, funded and trained by the CIA against the Soviet Axis of Evil became the Taliban and Al Qaeda who then considered their former allies to be the great satan wasn't it?
Listened this morning on CBC to a son having finally learning from his father about being tortured at the 40 year anniversary of CIA-sponsored coup in Chile. Finding the details and provoked emotions rather troubling. Then, the Pinochet dictatorship supported by the USA was the ISIS except for the religious aspect unless we consider money as the religion, which of course it is.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
Actually, np the RC church was very pro Pinochet.
While the Chilean hierarchy may have declared solidarity with the ousted elected regime, the Vatican's man, Archbishop (later Cardinal) Sodano was very close to Pinochet. JP II was warm in his praise for Pinochet's 'stand against communism' and when Pinochet and his wife celebrated their golden wedding they received personal congratulations from Sodano and a papal blessing from JP II. Sodano lobbied the UK government to release Pinochet when he was briefly held here.
The Vatican line was that most of the Chilean hierarchy was dangerously 'pink' and infeected with the virus of liberation theology, against which JP II waged a crusade.
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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Anglican't
Shipmate
# 15292
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Arminian:
When I saw ISIS were putting 'N' on peoples houses and demanding they leave or die it reminded me of Hitler's tactics with the Jews.
Rather a banal question, all things considered, but what does the 'N' stand for?
Posts: 3613 | From: London, England | Registered: Nov 2009
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Stetson
Shipmate
# 9597
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Anglican't:
quote:
Originally posted by Arminian:
When I saw ISIS were putting 'N' on peoples houses and demanding they leave or die it reminded me of Hitler's tactics with the Jews.
Rather a banal question, all things considered, but what does the 'N' stand for?
"Nazarene", apparently.
link
Posts: 6574 | From: back and forth between bible belts | Registered: Jun 2005
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
(There is a Shipmate who seems to have the Arabic letter 'N' in his/her signature right now. Is this a reference to this?)
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Stetson
Shipmate
# 9597
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Posted
Doing some research here, I'm a little skeptical about the source of this "N" story.
Professor Gorka comes off sounding like one of those "white Chriatian males are the most oppressed group on the planet" types. Not always the most reputable sources.
And I find it a little distasteful the way the article opens by pointing out that Christians have been in the region centuries ahead of Muslims, as if that makes persecution worse.
Suffice to say, they guy seems to have an agenda beyond simply reporting the details of war crimes.
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I have the power...Lucifer is lord!
Posts: 6574 | From: back and forth between bible belts | Registered: Jun 2005
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
It seems the reason for killing the Yazidi is that they are "devil worshippers".
It seems to me that the killers are closer to followers of Satan than the Yazidi. By their fruits...
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
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IngoB
Sentire cum Ecclesia
# 8700
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Stetson:
Doing some research here, I'm a little skeptical about the source of this "N" story.
It seems legitimate.
quote:
Wikipedia
In Arabic-speaking cultures, two words are commonly used for Christians: Nasrani (نصراني), plural Nasara (نصارى) is generally understood to be derived from Nazareth through the Syriac (Aramaic); Masihi (مسيحي) means followers of the Messiah.
Where there is a distinction, Nasrani refers to people from a Christian culture and Masihi means those with a religious faith in Jesus. In some countries Nasrani tends to be used generically for non-Muslim white people. Another Arabic word sometimes used for Christians, particularly in a political context, is Salibi (صليبي "Crusader") from salib (صليب "crucifix") which refers to Crusaders and has negative connotations.
WordReference.com
Nasraani (which is after Nazareth and a name of a heretic sect of the 7th century which Muhammad may have known) was used solely by Muslims before the 20th century and was deeply hated by Christians because it was associated with the Ottoman millet system.
As soon as the Ottomans left in 1918, this word became obsolete in the Levant (and similar was the word Nusayri نصيري , the name of the Allawites under the millet system). The words نصراني and ثصيري (Christians and Allawites) were removed even from place names and to use them in Levant today is offensive and like calling an African person a nigger.
The latter comment makes a lot of sense in context.
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They’ll have me whipp’d for speaking true; thou’lt have me whipp’d for lying; and sometimes I am whipp’d for holding my peace. - The Fool in King Lear
Posts: 12010 | From: Gone fishing | Registered: Oct 2004
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Demas
Ship's Deserter
# 24
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Posted
Justin Welby has issued a statement saying that his homepage photo had been changed to the Arabic letter N as a token of solidarity with Iraq's Christians:
quote:
We are Nazarene. Please share your thoughts and prayers on Twitter using #WeAreN, and consider changing your avatar on social media in solidarity with our Christian brothers and sisters in Iraq.
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They did not appear very religious; that is, they were not melancholy; and I therefore suspected they had not much piety - Life of Rev John Murray
Posts: 1894 | From: Thessalonica | Registered: May 2004
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