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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Andy Murray - before it's too late!!!
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
The UK consists of four previously independent nations which had their own governments, their own currencies, their own languages and cultures (and, in most cases, regional variations in culture and language within each nation)...
I think that 'own government' may be overstating it a bit in the case of Wales. AIUI pre-Union Wales was a collection of local regimes which guarded their independence fiercely while simultaneously struggling to lord it over their neighbours, with relationships marked by intense parochialism, mistrust, and mutual backstabbing, and coming together only in opposition to the English. Whereas modern Wales is, um,....
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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anoesis
Shipmate
# 14189
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by deano:
I hate the scotch, they hate us. But Britain is 3 celtic countries run by one better country in order to ensure the 3 celtic countries are not royally fucked over by England like they have been for the last few millenia, and they want to throw it away the ungrateful wankers.
They've never been any use unless sucking at Englands tit, so fuck them, fuck Murray, fuck every jock everywhere. If they want independance, all it means is that we don't have to worry about shafting them.
I know this is hell, but honestly - you should be ashamed of yourself. Try expressing the same sort of sentiments as above, but substitute 'negro' or 'Jew' for 'Scot', and ask yourself if it feels acceptable. And don't try and argue that it isn't the same kind of thing - it is.
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The history of humanity give one little hope that strength left to its own devices won't be abused. Indeed, it gives one little ground to think that strength would continue to exist if it were not abused. -- Dafyd --
Posts: 993 | From: New Zealand | Registered: Oct 2008
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
Well, it was their own government ... even if decentralised and somewhat haphazard.
But, I realise I'm turning all Purgatorial. So, I'm off to do the right thing. If you want to follow the conversation I'll be setting up a thread in Purg shortly.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by PeteC:
You forgot Québec. ![[Waterworks]](graemlins/bawling.gif)
I'm sure I forgot a lot of places. Take them all as read.
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
What I did notice, shamwari, was the way Murray had three championship points - and Djokovich demolished them all. Hardly the sign of someone who deliberately wanted to lose.
But guess you were too busy updating your conspiracy theory file at the time - putting Murray in alongside the moon landings, Kennedy's assassination and Princess Di.
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
But the reality is that England would just end up becoming more French and/or German.
.
You say that like it's a bad thing.
If I wanted to be French or German I'd move to Lyon or Frankfurt.
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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Cod
Shipmate
# 2643
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Evensong:
Tennis is for wimps and small minds.
Bring on The Ashes!
And I hope you enjoy them. That is, if you're a masochist. ![[Snigger]](graemlins/snigger.gif)
Posts: 4229 | From: New Zealand | Registered: Apr 2002
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Evensong
Shipmate
# 14696
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Posted
Well I'm hoping for a few scots on the English side so youse can all implode.
‘Every kingdom divided against itself is laid waste, and no city or house divided against itself will stand.
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
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a theological scrapbook
Posts: 9481 | From: Australia | Registered: Apr 2009
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QLib
Bad Example
# 43
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Posted
Yes, of course, that would explain why the United Kingdom was so spectacularly unsuccessful in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries.
Posts: 8913 | From: Page 28 | Registered: May 2001
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Tubbs
Miss Congeniality
# 440
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by shamwari:
Firenze asks for some evidence that Novak was "playing up" ( my words)
Did she see the two occasions when Novak lost a simple point and then walked back to the service line with a "knowing smile" creased across his face?
Nothing reminded me so much as the occasion when Christiano Ronaldo in a football match managed to get an opponent given a red card for a "foul" for a tackle on him. And his very public wink to the bench when the red card was issued.
Different game. Same response. Novak simply did not play to his normal best -- for whatever reason. Three times when given a simple overhead smash into an open court he played the ball back to Andy who capitalised and won a totally undeserved point.
Not to mention the number of times Novak played the fool following a drop shot and gave Andy a simple reply.
Andy was brilliant. Novak was ??????
I was left wondering about a "Fix"
Maybe the blinkered Firenze can explain that, Assuming she watched the match and was not simply doing her normal "thing" of abusing my post.
You have, of course, shared this water-tight evidence of a potential match throwing conspiracy with your friends, family and the local constabulary so action can be taken haven't you? ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Tubbs
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"It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it up and remove all doubt" - Dennis Thatcher. My blog. Decide for yourself which I am
Posts: 12701 | From: Someplace strange | Registered: Jun 2001
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alienfromzog
Ship's Alien
# 5327
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by deano:
He's two sets up! Okay I hate tennis but I hate Murray more.
He is an anti-English wanker and I'd rather have somebody from a no-name-muddy-field-istan like whoever-he's-playing-ovich than an anti-English Scotch
I'm sorry but having seen the BBC documentary about Murray I had to return to this comment.
Of course anyone who doesn't know the difference between Scotch and Scots is either terminally stupid or wilfully ignorant and so I shouldn't expect much but...
AM, once said "He'd support any football team playing England" this comment arose in banter, in a conversation with Tim Henman in which they'd been teasing each other over football and was clearly meant in jest. It was then picked up and distorted by the malignant British media and resulted in Murray receiving hate-mail. I DO marvel at the level of stupidity needed to go from such a story in the press to writing hate-mail but I am grateful to Deano for educating me as to the 'thought-processes' behind it.
Deano, please tell me you're a troll because if you are a pseudo-troll™ then I am really worried. If you really believe what you write, I think you need help.
AFZ
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Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.
[Sen. D.P.Moynihan]
An Alien's View of Earth - my blog (or vanity exercise...)
Posts: 2150 | From: Zog, obviously! Straight past Alpha Centauri, 2nd planet on the left... | Registered: Dec 2003
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
IMO, when it comes to countries small is beautiful.
Only countries then, is it? Heightist meanie.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Arethosemyfeet
Shipmate
# 17047
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
If there were no Scots in the British parliament, we would be permanently condemned to a Tory government. we need the Shortish labour votes to get a majority.
It's not actually true. There has only been one occasion when a Labour government was dependent on Scottish votes for a majority since WW2, if memory serves.
Posts: 2933 | From: Hebrides | Registered: Apr 2012
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Mad Cat
Shipmate
# 9104
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
But the reality is that England would just end up becoming more French and/or German.
.
You say that like it's a bad thing.
If I wanted to be French or German I'd move to Lyon or Frankfurt.
Scotland signed the Act of Union for access to trade rights. I think it's legitimate to compare the UK with the EU in that respect. I guess the EU comes freighted with all sorts of stuff that can actually inhibit trade, which is where the analogy breaks down.
Not sure I agree with Alan on the home nations becoming more like each other. If that's the case it's because of our geographical union, and because people inter-marry. The Scotland/England border was ever fluid. My Geordie family are in character very similar to my lowland Scots family. Not sure about those Irish dudes....
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Weird and sweary.
Posts: 1844 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2005
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Arethosemyfeet:
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
If there were no Scots in the British parliament, we would be permanently condemned to a Tory government. we need the Shortish labour votes to get a majority.
It's not actually true. There has only been one occasion when a Labour government was dependent on Scottish votes for a majority since WW2, if memory serves.
I hope that's right.
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My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com
Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
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Cod
Shipmate
# 2643
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Posted
Actually a great big bribe was a large part of cause of the Act of Union.
Along with various other things - defence concerns, depleted treasury, union of crowns, the lowlands being pulled into England's cultural orbit and so on. Access to trade rights was just one of those things.
The big bribe is the cool bit though.
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"I fart in your general direction."
M Barnier
Posts: 4229 | From: New Zealand | Registered: Apr 2002
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molopata
The Ship's jack
# 9933
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by alienfromzog:
AM, once said "He'd support any football team playing England" this comment arose in banter, in a conversation with Tim Henman in which they'd been teasing each other over football and was clearly meant in jest. It was then picked up and distorted by the malignant British media and resulted in Murray receiving hate-mail.
AFZ
I would put it down to Big Neighbour Syndrom . If Roger Federer were more outspoken, he'd probably be on record for saying "Jede söll gwönne - eifach nid die Dütsche"*, along with pretty much all other German Swiss - who face the additional distress which comes with that fact that the Germans actually do sometimes win tournaments.
As a Scot with a Swiss passport, I feel particularly afflicted when Germany plays England, as they can't both loose. ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
*Anyone can win, just not the Germans.
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... The Respectable
Posts: 1718 | From: the abode of my w@ndering mind | Registered: Aug 2005
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North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
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Posted
(eta - following on from Cod's post)
And Hekla. Had Hekla not erupted continuously for seven months of 1693, would we have had the Union? Although Scotland's crop failure post-Hekla wasn't as severe as that of Sweden (estimated 80,000 dead) Estonia (estimated 70,000 dead) and Finland (estimated 30% of the population died) people were dying in the northern parts of Scotland, too. Scotland had the double whammy of crop failure and economic collapse of some of its trading partners. Scotland was forced to have a poll tax in 1696 (hugely useful source for historians today) to attempt to provide for its hungry people. Scotland was in a bad way by 1707, but the part of its economic collapse caused by the drifting ash from Hekla was just pure bad luck.
[ 09. July 2013, 19:04: Message edited by: North East Quine ]
Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007
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Piglet
Islander
# 11803
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by anoesis:
quote:
Originally posted by deano:
I hate the scotch, they hate us [etc.etc.]...
I know this is hell, but honestly - you should be ashamed of yourself. Try expressing the same sort of sentiments as above, but substitute 'negro' or 'Jew' for 'Scot', and ask yourself if it feels acceptable. And don't try and argue that it isn't the same kind of thing - it is.
Thank you, Anoesis - I couldn't have put it better than that. It drives me up the wall that people can be as rude as they like about the Scots (or the English, for that matter) without fear of any kind of censure.
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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music
Posts: 20272 | From: Fredericton, NB, on a rather larger piece of rock | Registered: Sep 2006
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Stercus Tauri
Shipmate
# 16668
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Posted
Fortunately, there appears to be an antidote for deano: http://www.beanogas.com/
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Thay haif said. Quhat say thay, Lat thame say (George Keith, 5th Earl Marischal)
Posts: 905 | From: On the traditional lands of the Six Nations. | Registered: Sep 2011
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ExclamationMark
Shipmate
# 14715
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Chorister:
Princess Di.
Well. I never saw her in the crowd - must've been banned from the Royal Box for this one.
Posts: 3845 | From: A new Jerusalem | Registered: Apr 2009
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The Phantom Flan Flinger
Shipmate
# 8891
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by alienfromzog:
Of course anyone who doesn't know the difference between Scotch and Scots is either terminally stupid or wilfully ignorant and so I shouldn't expect much but...
It's simple - scotch is what the Scots drink.
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http://www.faith-hope-and-confusion.com/
Posts: 1020 | From: Leicester, England | Registered: Dec 2004
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The Midge
Shipmate
# 2398
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Phantom Flan Flinger:
quote:
Originally posted by alienfromzog:
Of course anyone who doesn't know the difference between Scotch and Scots is either terminally stupid or wilfully ignorant and so I shouldn't expect much but...
It's simple - scotch is what the Scots drink.
There is not much wrong with a country that produces a fine malt. Though I admit that I prefer a drop of smooth Welsh Madeira.
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Some days you are the fly.
On other days you are the windscreen.
Posts: 1085 | Registered: Feb 2002
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
quote:
Originally posted by Chorister:
Princess Di.
Well. I never saw her in the crowd - must've been banned from the Royal Box for this one.
Time to invent a conspiracy theory that she didn't really die but was spirited away to a remote island where she lives a quiet life unobtrusively clearing away leftover landmines and hiding from holidaymaking paparazzi.
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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Cod
Shipmate
# 2643
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by piglet:
quote:
Originally posted by anoesis:
quote:
Originally posted by deano:
I hate the scotch, they hate us [etc.etc.]...
I know this is hell, but honestly - you should be ashamed of yourself. Try expressing the same sort of sentiments as above, but substitute 'negro' or 'Jew' for 'Scot', and ask yourself if it feels acceptable. And don't try and argue that it isn't the same kind of thing - it is.
Thank you, Anoesis - I couldn't have put it better than that. It drives me up the wall that people can be as rude as they like about the Scots (or the English, for that matter) without fear of any kind of censure.
While I agree with the sentiment, it cannot be said that Scots (or English) have suffered anything like the same level of persecution as black or Jewish people, which if probably why it seems less acceptable.
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"I fart in your general direction."
M Barnier
Posts: 4229 | From: New Zealand | Registered: Apr 2002
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molopata
The Ship's jack
# 9933
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Chorister:
Time to invent a conspiracy theory that she didn't really die but was spirited away to a remote island where she lives a quiet life unobtrusively clearing away leftover landmines and hiding from holidaymaking paparazzi.
Rumour has it that she is making out with Elvis on Saturn.
Posts: 1718 | From: the abode of my w@ndering mind | Registered: Aug 2005
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
quote:
Originally posted by alienfromzog:
Apparently the 'Scotland-Labour-effect' is very small:
See here
AFZ
Very interesting - thank you
I think that article understates the effect. The Major government had quite so many issues in part because it had such a slender majority that it was at the mercy of a small number of rebels. Had Major had a 70-seat lead rather than a 20-seat lead, the dynamic of that government would have been rather different. Blair would probably have still won the next election, but without such a dramatic landslide. Michael Portillo, for example, would have kept his seat, and probably been elected Tory leader instead of William Hague. Under Portillo, the Tories would have given Blair a closer run for his money in 2001.
This is without even considering the effect that removing individual Scots from the UK political scene would have had.
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
Being a host is like being the curator of a public art space. You set the space up. You advertise the opening to the community. You tell them all about the different materials you're going to provide for them to use. Offer them classes in different media. Try to generate excitement about how this is going to be THEIR space to create, to share with each other.
And then the art space finally opens, and the only contribution on the first morning is a 16-year-old scrawling "GAVIN IS A COCKSUCKER" in large letters.
After a while you start lowering your expectations to the point where a good day is when 'cocksucker' is spelled correctly and in an attractive font.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Anglican't
Shipmate
# 15292
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Posted
Aren't we being constantly told by art 'experts' that art is only art if it challenges us or shocks us?
Posts: 3613 | From: London, England | Registered: Nov 2009
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Palimpsest
Shipmate
# 16772
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
...And then the art space finally opens, and the only contribution on the first morning is a 16-year-old scrawling "GAVIN IS A COCKSUCKER" in large letters.
After a while you start lowering your expectations to the point where a good day is when 'cocksucker' is spelled correctly and in an attractive font.
Consider Pompeii. All it takes is a volcano eruption and then the next time the graffiti are seen they're fascinating.
Posts: 2990 | From: Seattle WA. US | Registered: Nov 2011
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
A pyroclastic flow can move over the Damien Hirsts any time it likes.
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
Were there a god, it would have already happened.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
The last few posts read rather like the Daily Mail's art and culture column.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Arethosemyfeet
Shipmate
# 17047
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Cod:
While I agree with the sentiment, it cannot be said that Scots (or English) have suffered anything like the same level of persecution as black or Jewish people, which if probably why it seems less acceptable.
Highlanders were treated not vastly better than black people in the American south for a while after the '45 rebellion. Even within living memory kids were beaten for using Gaelic in school.
Posts: 2933 | From: Hebrides | Registered: Apr 2012
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Arethosemyfeet:
quote:
Originally posted by Cod:
While I agree with the sentiment, it cannot be said that Scots (or English) have suffered anything like the same level of persecution as black or Jewish people, which if probably why it seems less acceptable.
Highlanders were treated not vastly better than black people in the American south for a while after the '45 rebellion. Even within living memory kids were beaten for using Gaelic in school.
The clearances were bad, no doubt. Very bad indeed, but different.
The differences being the degree and length of poor treatment. And that, if so one chooses, a highlander can appear to be other. Not so when you are black. Oh, and if the highlanders were treated as the Jews were, there'd not be a one left.
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ETA:
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
The last few posts read rather like the Daily Mail's art and culture column.
This is an evil comment, even for Hell. Mean man.
[ 14. July 2013, 16:14: Message edited by: lilBuddha ]
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Arethosemyfeet
Shipmate
# 17047
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Posted
The treatment of highlanders probably had more in common with the treatment of Native Americans.
Posts: 2933 | From: Hebrides | Registered: Apr 2012
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Anglican't
Shipmate
# 15292
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Posted
The satirist Craig Brown writes for the Mail on Sunday's Arts section, so we could perhaps interpret this as high praise.
Posts: 3613 | From: London, England | Registered: Nov 2009
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Anglican't:
Aren't we being constantly told by art 'experts' that art is only art if it challenges us or shocks us?
Erm... no, not really, no. Possibly on Daily Heil Bullshit Mountain but no, not in the real world.
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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Og: Thread Killer
Ship's token CN Mennonite
# 3200
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Arethosemyfeet:
The treatment of highlanders probably had more in common with the treatment of Native Americans.
Not really. Scottish chiefs and Lairds who lived on the land kept ownership and the Highlanders were, with some exceptions, shipped out to overseas or to cities.
With a few exceptions, when found on land wanted by colonists or settlers, Native Americans were pretty much exterminated on site within the US until the mid 1800's. Canadians did slightly better only because of the fur trade.
E.g. A reading of American discussions during the early part of the 1800's indicates an almost universal fear, verging on paranoia, of Indians and being scalped. It caused the US to make weird political and military decisions during the War of 1812.
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I wish I was seeking justice loving mercy and walking humbly but... "Cease to lament for that thou canst not help, And study help for that which thou lament'st."
Posts: 5025 | From: Toronto | Registered: Aug 2002
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Uncle Pete
Loyaute me lie
# 10422
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Posted
Aren't we verging off topic to some general chit-chat here?
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Even more so than I was before
Posts: 20466 | From: No longer where I was | Registered: Sep 2005
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Og: Thread Killer
Ship's token CN Mennonite
# 3200
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Posted
Well I could have said anybody who compares the Highland clearances to the chaotic but persistant destruction of all Native Americans, with all the gore and mess and retaliations that money, greed, racism and religion can provide is a tartan fetishing drama queen who has no clue as to the breadth of history but prefers the easy answer because it sounds sensible and pithy on the internet.
Like who the fuck has Genocide envy?!
But that might be going too far.
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I wish I was seeking justice loving mercy and walking humbly but... "Cease to lament for that thou canst not help, And study help for that which thou lament'st."
Posts: 5025 | From: Toronto | Registered: Aug 2002
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by PeteC:
Aren't we verging off topic to some general chit-chat here?
We are, but I was hoping for some "Only One True Scotsman" bollocks before this thread sinks beneath the waves of apathy.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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RooK
1 of 6
# 1852
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by PeteC:
general chit-chat
Now I'm hungry for some General Tso's chicken.
Posts: 15274 | From: Portland, Oregon, USA, Earth | Registered: Nov 2001
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
Is his chicken better than Colonel Sanders'?
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Chorister:
Is his chicken better than Colonel Sanders'?
Depends on who make it, but generally yes.
[ 15. July 2013, 19:47: Message edited by: lilBuddha ]
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
This is fascinating stuff and perfect for the Burnt Offerings thread.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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