|
Source: (consider it)
|
Thread: Heaven: Field Guide to Americans and the British
|
Campbellite
Ut unum sint
# 1202
|
Posted
I simply must register my protest regarding the (US) Southern "accent".
There is no such thing.
We do not have an accent. Y*nkees of various types have accents. We do not.
The Southland has preserved the original pronunciations from the time of the settlement at Jamestown (long before those Johnny-come-lately's in Massachusetts).
Even our beloved British cousins have shown changes in pronunciation over the years. If y'all want to know how Shakespeare was meant to sound, get someone from Birmingham (Alabama, that is) or Charleston, South Carolina to perform it.
I was 13 years old before I found out "damy*nkee" was two words.
Asterisk provided for the benefit of ladies and minors. Wouldn't want to offend their delicate ears, you know.
--------------------
I upped mine. Up yours.
Suffering for Jesus since 1966.
WTFWED?
Posts: 12001 | From: between keyboard and chair | Registered: Aug 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Mrs de Point
Shipmate
# 1430
|
Posted
Anselmina et al you are bringing back such happy ![[Confused]](confused.gif) memories of picnics. I do remember a young friend accidentally sitting on a nettle patch behind a bush......
As my h2b has pointed out the only things missing from the perfect British day out is the chorus from the back seat of Are we there yet? to be repeated at 5 minute intervals. And having to listen to Mr Blobby {replace with own inane childrens tape} over & over & over again. World War Three breaking out as child 1 stealing child 2's lollipop and then being poked in the eye with the stick.
Oh the joys of picnics - thank goodness its autumn and we have to stay indoors....... ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
--------------------
Beware I am not in control of my hormones..... or my mind
Posts: 602 | From: Across the road from Calvin | Registered: Sep 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by logician:
I would love to know the inside skinny on the "real" regions of the UK.
In direct tribute to a previous post, and at serious risk to my life, sanity, and and reputation; and making no attempt whatsoever to be truthful, impartial, or avoid stereotyping my fellow-shipmates unmercifully; and completely ignoring anywhere that arguably might not beBritain as a convenient way of not mentioning the North of Ireland, or Northern Ireland, which Anselmina has already encapsulated for you, and about which I only need to add that the real geography of Ulster was the original for the fantasy geography of Narnia; and with comments on their relationship to the settlemt of North America, I proudly present:
The Field Guide to the 15 Real Nations of Britain:
(1) West of Scotland - the Western Isles, Argyll, the Clyde and it's firth, those parts of the Highlands that drain west. Think of Scotch mist, whisky, moorland, Gaelic (pronounced "the garlic"), poetry, deserts wi' windows (i.e. vast housing projects with no jobs), deep-fried Mars-bars, and schism. The friendliest people in Britain apart from the inhabitants of Sheffield. Also the most violent, apart from the inhabitants of Nottingham. These are the ancestors of the Scots of Nova Scotia, the great Plains, and Texas. You can tell by the place-names: Houston is a suburb of Glasgow, Calgary a little village on Mull.
Industries: shipbuilding, steel, fish-farming, Robert Burns, and emigration.
Capital: Glasgow.
Main outside influences: Ireland, the USA, the western Isles
Religion: football.
National Sport: religious bigotry and apparently random thuggery.
(2) East of Scotland - Everything north or East of (1) above. A dour region for dour folk. No-one has any fun (the Edinburgh festival might look fun but it actually consists of Glasgow promoters putting on English shows for for reign tourists. to American tourists) The posh people speak with English public-school accents (Brits can think of Tam Dalyell), the working classes speak a broad Scots nearer to Norse than English. Or so it seems to one who is more familiar with the sing-song voice of Glasgow.
Industries: law, medicine, oil-rigs, coal, trawlers, and turnips.
Capital: Edinburgh
Main outside influences: the North Sea
Religion: money
National Sport: trying to be better than the west of Scotland
(3) Borders - all of Scotland south of Glasgow, most of the English county of Northumberland, and all of Westmorland and Cumberland and south west to the Lake District and north Lancashire. Hill country, moorland, with a long, noble and bloody tradition of independence. These were the main ancestors (along with the Ulster folk who Americans call Scots-Irish) of the people of Appalachia, and it shows.
Industries: fudge, sheep and liberalism.
Capital: Roxburgh, Selkirk & Peebles
Main outside influences: none since the Vikings: people leave there, they don't go there.
Religion: rugby union
National Sport: reiving
(4) Anglo-Walia - Wales that speaks English. Defined by language, not borders. On paper Anglo-Wales it is about 80% of Wales, in the papers about 20%. Shirley Bassey, Dylan Thomas, Max Boyce, and male-voice choirs, names of geological eras with no land animals, very large rugby players.
Capital: Cardiff
Industries: Coal, steel, the usual. All long gone, as usual.
Main outside influences: William Webb Ellis, George Whitefield
Religion: once Methodism but these days more likely fish & chips.
(5) Cymry - Wales that speaks Welsh. The original British, and if you ever visit there, don't you dare forget it. Divided eternally and completely between north-Walian and south-Walian, but as an English speaker I can't tell them apart.
Industries: Sheep, slate, and schoolteaching.
Capital: Aberystwyth. It should be Machynlleth, but no other bugger can pronounce it.
Main outside influences: The Holy Land. Wales is full of towns with names like Bethel and Bethesda. (As is the part of the USA that the Welsh took iron working to)
Religion: Druidism
National Sport: cottage-burning
(6) Cornwall and the far South-West - the bit that sticks out of the bottom-left-hand-side of your map. The climate is wonderful, the scenery attractive, the wildlife is tame, the mines are worked out, and the people are unemployed.
Capital: Exeter. Exeter isn't actually in Cornwall, but then these are colonial boundaries.
Industries: mines (once upon a time), fishing (fished out), smuggling (long ago over), showing tourists round gardens
Main outside influences: Wales, Brittany, the Atlantic Ocean
(7) North-East of England - Tyneside and the denser parts of Northumberland, County Durham, and the parts of Yorkshire within spitting distance of the river Tees. Eeh, it's cold oop North. If you can see the Penshore Monument you know you're in the north-east. Tyneside is the British equivalent of the Ruhr, except it didn't make it through the 1950s. The place was tooled up to build the ships to fight the First World War - huls, engines, guns, armour, ammunition, lasted to the second, then spent a generation as the land of Get Carterand the Likely Lads.
Capital: Newcastle
Main outside influences: Norway
Industries: once upon a time: steel, coal, ships, armaments. These days: insurance and making TV documentaries about the North.
National Sport: football (again)
Religion: the Labour Party and the Trade Union movement. (Now, like most minor deities, mostly worshipped from afar)
(8) North-West of England - traditional Lancashire & adjacent parts of a few other counties. Everyone in the south thinks they are desperately poor and half-starving. In fact, apart from Liverpool (which really is totally broke) and some decaying inner suburbs of a few other large towns, the north-west is quite a prosperous place. Also a diverse place. There are towns here where the local accent is completely different from the next town maybe only 4 or 5 miles away. The north-west is the only part of England outside London that ever nrearly succeeded in being cool, Manchester & Liverpool used to take alternating goes as the pop capital of the world. But now all they have left is football. Most of the the ships that people from the rest of the Old World used to travel to North America departed from Liverpool. First the slave ships, then when the bottom was shot out of that market by the Haitian revolution and the Evangelical Revivial, they converted to emigrants.
Capital: Manchester, England's Second City.
National Sport: football (it gets boring, doesn't it?)
Main outside influences: Ireland, India
Industries: Once upon a time cotton, these days just about everything.
(9) Yorkshire - Real Yorkshire isn't quite the same as Yorkshire on the map because it is a state of mind more than a place. Being Yorkshire involves thinking you are better than anyone else, so much better in fact that you never bother to tell them. If you find yourself in a picturesque, if gritty, stone-build village on the edge of the moors and all the doors are shut - you're probably in Yorkshire. Except for Sheffield of course. Sheffield is so much unlike Yorkshire that it hardly fits here at all.
Capital: York
National Sport: horse-racing
Main outside influences: Outside? Influence? When ah were a lad, they 'ad no truck with them there outsiders, and the only influence they ever saw was aunt Maisie's nice cup of tea.
Industries: moaning about soft southerners
National Sport: cricket
(10) East Anglia - the big bulge on the east coast just north of London, including the counties of Essex, Suffolk, Norfolk, and Cambridgeshire, along with a few other little ones no-one can ever remember. The flat part of England. For our purposes we have to add in rural Lincolnshire and some of the flatter parts of the east midlands.
Capital(s): Cambridge for education, Norwich for bad TV shows.
Main outside influences: the Netherlands
Industries: keeping unfeasibly large numbers of poultry in sheds big enough to see from orbit
Religion: once upon a time a hot-bed of puritanism and non-conformism. The Pilgrim Fathers came from Boston in Lincolnshire (Plymouth was just a place they stopped off on the way to get a last pint of decent beer) as did Oliver Cromwell.
(11) London London is, er, London. The default city of the modern world. The Great Wen. The Heart of Darkness. The Smoke. The place the banks keep your money. Like all other great cities it evokes a completely different set of images in those who live there than those who don't. Tourists think of Tower Bridge, fog, beefeaters, helpful cabbies, and the Changing of the Guard. Locals think of Battersea Power Station, expensive beer, the Tube Map, 300 bus routes, and endless conversations about house prices. Oh those endless, endless conversations about house prices. People from London owned the ships that people from teh rest of Britain and Euroipe used to travel to North America, but they never went there themselves. You'd have to get off the housing ladder if you wanted to emigrate. And there might not be a tube.
Capital: London, of course
Industries: money
Main outside influences: Ireland, the West Indies
Religion: desperate fun
National Sport: reading late-night bus timetables and arguing about the tube map.
(12) The Motorised Banana - imagine a large banana-shaped piece of land to the north and west of London, curving from Cambridge in the north-east to somewhere around Baskingstoke in the south-west, bulging out west along the Thames Valley to Oxford, and taking Milton Keynes and the outer suburbs of London on the way. This is the most prosperous part of Britain, and also the part that makes most sense to Americans, as nearly everyone lives in suburbs, shops in malls, and drives cars.
Capital: Heathrow Airport
Industries: commuting to London, driving round the M25
National Sport: five-a-side football, driving round the M25
Religion: television, driving round the M25
(13) South -Central England and the South Coast A triangle whose outlying edges are Exeter, Chichester, and Oxford. Rolling green meadows, villages of thatched houses, little cathedral towns nestled in the folding hills, quiet country pubs - you've seen the Miss Marple programs. Picturebook England.
Capital(s): it really ought to be Southhampton, the only big city in the region, but the spiritual home of the place is Bournemouth, which is about equally composed of retired gentlewomen in distressed circumstances and young thugs tanked up on cheap cider.
National Food: Cream Teas
Industries: none
Main outside influences: the Isle of Wight
(14) The Real South East - the bulge south of London: Kent, Surrey and Sussex, together with the outer suburbs of South London and adjacent parts of Hampshire. On the main routes from London to everywhere else. Combines really quite downmarket fading naval or port towns like Dover or Chatham, or Portsmouth; with vast swathes of exurbia posing as countryside, such as the huge Mega-Village One that has metastatised just north of Brighton.
Capital: Brighton
Industries: transport, scenery, commuting, education, trying to be near to London without being part of London.
Main outside influences: France, the rest of Europe
National Sport: Sport? In a region who's best-known football team is Brighton & Hove Albion? Come off it!
(15) The Rest The rest of Britain is all those parts that don't fit into the 14 categories defined above.
Capital: Birmingham. People who have seen both Birmingham and Akron, Ohio, usually say they find Akron more charming.
Religion: the car
Other interesting facts: none known. No-one likes Birmingham. Except people who live there, and as no-one else ever goes there no-one knows why they like it.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Amos
Shipmate
# 44
|
Posted
There is a land elsewhere!
Thank you, thank you ken for leaving us out! ![[Not worthy!]](graemlins/notworthy.gif)
--------------------
At the end of the day we face our Maker alongside Jesus--ken
Posts: 7667 | From: Summerisle | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Og: Thread Killer
Ship's token CN Mennonite
# 3200
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ChrisT:
....
West - Man/Liverpudlian scallys, keep your car doors locked at ALL time, including waiting at traffic lights
I've upset enough people by now so I'll leave them to others. ![[Devil]](graemlins/devil.gif)
Scousers and gud Lanky stawk r same?
RUBIIISSSSHHHHH
--------------------
I wish I was seeking justice loving mercy and walking humbly but... "Cease to lament for that thou canst not help, And study help for that which thou lament'st."
Posts: 5025 | From: Toronto | Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Campbell Ritchie
Shipmate
# 730
|
Posted
Ken (bl**d* good post that, BTW. Can I send it to my friends please?) and ChrisT:-
What makes you think Yorkshiremen (I am by no means one, but now live there) believe Yorkshire is the centre of the universe, or thinking you are better than anyone else?
No Yorkshireman would believe or think such things, any more than he would believe or think grass is green.
--------------------
The greatest problem about Christianity is that it condemns you to eternity with me.
Posts: 396 | From: Middlesbrough | Registered: Jul 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Nicolemr
Shipmate
# 28
|
Posted
the new yorker: people are constantly saying we're rude. we are. wanna make something of it? none-the-less, we can be the nicest people in the world, going out od our way to help people. tourists are constantly telling me how amazed they are by how nice and helpful we can be.
new yorkers can come from any part of the world and be any race, color or religion. what defines us as new yorkers is that we'd rather be here than anywhere else, even when we complain about it brutally.
new yorkers are a tolerant lot. basicly we don't care what anyone is doing as long as they don't do it in the street and scare the tourists. we like to mind our own business a lot.
the true new yorker knows that this is the capital of the world and has a faint air of gentle condencension towards everyone else. after all, its not your fault you aren't here, but still, you aren't so what else is there to say?
--------------------
On pilgrimage in the endless realms of Cyberia, currently traveling by ship. Now with live journal!
Posts: 11803 | From: New York City "The City Carries On" | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
zephirine of the roses
Soul of the rose
# 3323
|
Posted
does your true new york encompasss the remainder of the state?
`waving from a wee nook on lake ontario ![[Happy]](graemlins/happy2.gif)
--------------------
We are, each of us, angels with only one wing. And we can only fly embracing each other."
*~ Luciano De Crescenzo
Posts: 1756 | From: middle of an apple orchard in ny | Registered: Sep 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Nicolemr
Shipmate
# 28
|
Posted
well, no, i ment the city, but WHERE on lake ontario? anywhere near olcot???? (she said with great trepidation, hardly daring to hope that after the booting of the vile shaitan there might still be someone from near my summer cottege....)
--------------------
On pilgrimage in the endless realms of Cyberia, currently traveling by ship. Now with live journal!
Posts: 11803 | From: New York City "The City Carries On" | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Timothy L
Shipmate
# 2170
|
Posted
Anselmina, in a very funny post wrote:
quote:
All chocolate is melted despite the coolbag and is given to the dog who alone will be without enough pride to be willing to lick the wrappers.
Please don't give the doggies chocolate!
See here and here and here and here.
--------------------
Timothy
Posts: 757 | From: Kalamazoo | Registered: Jan 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
zephirine of the roses
Soul of the rose
# 3323
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by nicolemrw:
well, no, i ment the city, but WHERE on lake ontario? anywhere near olcot???? (she said with great trepidation, hardly daring to hope that after the booting of the vile shaitan there might still be someone from near my summer cottege....)
we're around sodus... apple country. quite a few miles to the right.
we drove through olcott on our way to toronto back in august. actually... we let the teen drive the parkway. he did well til he got lost in niagara falls.
olcott's very nice. i loved some of the gardens i saw - esp. one with a jillion windchimes hanging from the porch. i noticed lots of russian sage in use out there. it seems to be getting very popular as a cottage flower. ![[Sunny]](graemlins/flowerface.gif)
--------------------
We are, each of us, angels with only one wing. And we can only fly embracing each other."
*~ Luciano De Crescenzo
Posts: 1756 | From: middle of an apple orchard in ny | Registered: Sep 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208
|
Posted
The post about British picnics has depressed me so much. ![[Waterworks]](graemlins/bawling.gif)
--------------------
Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice
Posts: 9148 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Laudate Dominum
Shipmate
# 3104
|
Posted
In the list of definitions of Californians, they forgot:
Californian (Slightly North of San Francisco): Showing influence of the Midwest, probably due to its extensive agricultural areas. Neither as tolerant nor as radical as the San Franciscans. Main industries: agriculture, food, wine, tourism, and a little bit of everything else. Capitol: unknown. Parts of Napa and Sonoma come close to being included below.
Californian (Further North of San Francisco): Can best be dscribed by their belongings; either a red hat with earflaps and a rifle, or a flowing white gown, wreath worn on the head, and a marijuana cigarrette. The latter type usually expresses an obsessive interest in the art and music of Asian, African, and Celtic cultures. Main industries: none which would be admitted to by the inhabitants, although there are some water-bottling plants. Capitol: Mendocino or Humboldt, depending on how far north you get.
--------------------
"They think us barbarians because we cling to the past. We think them barbarians because they do not cling to the past." --G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 518 | From: Lala Land | Registered: Jul 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Jonah the Whale
Ship's pet cetacean
# 1244
|
Posted
ken, I normally just scroll through posts as long as yours. But yours was spot on. Are you from rural Lancashire by the way? You're spot on about the accents. The kids who came to my school from the Blackburn direction spoke completely differently from those from the Burnley direction.
Vert.
Posts: 2799 | From: Nether Regions | Registered: Aug 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Campbell Ritchie:
Ken (bl**d* good post that, BTW. Can I send it to my friends please?)
After that praise, of course - though it needs a good speelchuck first.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Moo
Ship's tough old bird
# 107
|
Posted
quote:
the true new yorker knows that this is the capital of the world and has a faint air of gentle condencension towards everyone else.
I hadn't noticed the faintness of the air or the gentleness of the condescension. ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
Moo
--------------------
Kerygmania host
---------------------
See you later, alligator.
Posts: 20365 | From: Alleghany Mountains of Virginia | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Vertebrate:
But yours was spot on. Are you from rural Lancashire by the way?
No, Brighton! Not even Hove, actually, but east Brighton of grotty council estates and failing schools. But I live in London now.
But my Mum & my sister lived in Preston for a while & my parents came from Glasgow and Tyneside & I went to college in Durham. Which is why I am so vague on the English Midlands - I know the end bits of Britain quite well, but everything between, say, Finchley Road in north London and Sheffield in south Yorkshire is pretty much the outer darkness, to be passed through as quickly as possible on a high-speed train.
![[Snigger]](graemlins/snigger.gif)
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Chip Unicorn:
Californian (L.A.): Obsessed with thinness, following strange religions, status, and the right parties. Unless they're not in the movie business.
If I remember correctly the anglo-American migrants to LA between about 1880 and 1920 were widely castigated as "mid-west, middle-aged, and middle-class". Back then it was also I think the whitest large city in the USA and the one with the highest proportion of US-born citizens. The most significant foreign contingent in that part of California being from Canada. The website www.ci.ontario.ca.us isn't called that because of US imperialism. Even if it isn't far from Imperial Valley)
Things changed after that...
I of course, know everything about LA, even though I have never been there, because I have Seen it in the Movies. ![[Cool]](cool.gif) Along with everyone else. It is the backdrop to a quarter of the TV & 3/4 of the films that I grew up with. I'm sure if I went there I would start recognising alien planets from Star Trek. (in space opera California is Mars, just as Old Earth stands in for England)
These days LA in films doesn't look like LA any more. When I was a lad LA was a Great Big Freeway, with a absurdly large number of palm trees interpenetrating an endless sea of low-rise detached houses. The only tall building was City Hall. It was the lowest-rise large city in the English-speaking world, fewer tall buildings than Washington DC, fewer skyscrapers than even London (i.e. none at all)
But sometime between the TV making 77 Sunset Strip and Angel, it all changed. Now it seems to be full of huge buildings and back alleys and large objects that give off steam whilst making unpleasant sounds. Maybe they film Angel on the back lot of a studio in New York ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Old Hundredth
Shipmate
# 112
|
Posted
Ken, I agree about your analysis of the north-west being spot on. Except for one thing - national sport. Whatever happened to Rugby League? Hardly played outside Lancashire and West Yorkshire, but here in its heartland, it surely ranks equally with football.
I'm from St Helens BTW (which gets me nicely out of any United v City controversies - I just say my affiliations are to St Helens RLFC).
--------------------
If I'm not in the Chapel, I'll be in the bar (Reno Sweeney, 'Anything Goes')
Posts: 976 | From: The land of the barm cake | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Gill H
Shipmate
# 68
|
Posted
Ken, that's wonderful.
Here's something a friend forwarded me. (Dudley is in the Midlands, largely famous for Not Being Birmingham). The humour may not survive the transatlantic crossing!
URGENT - DUDLEY EARTHQUAKE APPEAL
At 00:54 on Monday 23 September an earthquake measuring 4.8 on the Richter scale hit Dudley, UK causing untold disruption and distress -
* Many were woken well before their giro arrived
* Several priceless collections of momento's from the Balearics and Spanish Costa's were damaged
* Three areas of historic and scientifically significant litter were disturbed
* Thousands are confused and bewildered, trying to come to terms with the fact that something interesting has happened in Dudley
One resident, Donna-Marie Dutton, a 17 year old mother-of-three said
"It was such a shock, little Chantal-Leanne came running into my bedroom crying. My youngest two, Tyler-Morgan and Megan-Storm slept through it.
I was still shaking when I was watching Trisha the next morning."
Apparently though, looting did carry on as normal.
The British Red Cross have so far managed to ship 4000 crates of Sunny Delight to the area to help the stricken masses.
Rescue workers are still searching through the rubble and have found large quantities of personal belongings including benefit books and jewellery from Elizabeth Duke at Argos.
HOW YOU CAN HELP
* £2 buys chips, scraps and blue pop for a family of four
* £10 can take a family to Stourport for the day, where children can play on an unspoiled canal bank among the national collection of stinging
nettles
* 22p buys a biro for filling in a spurious compensation claim
PLEASE ACT NOW
Simply email us by return with your credit card details and we'll do the rest!
If you prefer to donate cash, there are collection points available at your local branches of Argos, Iceland and Clinton Cards
--------------------
*sigh* We can’t all be Alan Cresswell.
- Lyda Rose
Posts: 9313 | From: London | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
ChrisT
One of the Good Guys™
# 62
|
Posted
Thats fantastic Gill, very true ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
And Ken, I stand in awe. Such insight, such wondrous observation. Such truth. But horse-racing? Come on, you got to be kidding.
And Campbell, I apologise profously. Of course Yorkshiremen know they are better than everyone else, just as they are utterly certain they Yorkshire is the centre of the universe.
Yorkshire Ayup Magazine
--------------------
Firmly on dry land
Posts: 6489 | From: Here, there and everywhere | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Jonah the Whale
Ship's pet cetacean
# 1244
|
Posted
In the interests of Transatlantic comprehension I am posting a non-exhaustive list of British phrases. It is well known that the British do not always say what they really mean. So, with the international nature of the Ship, the definitions below may help people from minor nations understand their British shipmates better.
Sorry if some of you have seen this before. The first phrase is what is said. The second phrase is what is meant. This is understood by all but the most socially inept Brit, or foreigners, or Yorkshire folk.
I hear what you say
I disagree and do not wish to discuss it any further
With the greatest respect
I think you are a fool
Not bad
Good or very good
Quite good
A bit disappointing
Perhaps you would like to think about. / it would be nice if.
This is an order. Do it or be prepared to justify yourself
Oh, by the way/Incidentally
This is the primary purpose of our discussion
Very interesting
I don't agree/I don't believe you
Could we consider the options
I don't like your idea
I'll bear it in mind
I will do nothing about it
Perhaps you could give that some more thought
It is a bad idea. Don't do it
I'm sure it is my fault
It is your fault
That is an original point of view/brave option to consider
You must be crazy
You must come for dinner sometime
Not an invitation, just being polite
Not entirely helpful
Completely useless
I have found this list invaluable in understanding the complete bewilderment of my international colleagues, who, whilst speaking virtually perfect English, can occasionally entirely fail to understand a simple statement, such as this one.
Vert.
Posts: 2799 | From: Nether Regions | Registered: Aug 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Rat
Ship's Rat
# 3373
|
Posted
Ken,
That was spot on and very funny. Can I pinch "A dour region for dour folk" for my 'from' field?
The Festival can be fun though, honest, the secret is to pretend to be a tourist
Rat
--------------------
It's a matter of food and available blood. If motherhood is sacred, put your money where your mouth is. Only then can you expect the coming down to the wrecked & shimmering earth of that miracle you sing about. [Margaret Atwood]
Posts: 5285 | From: A dour region for dour folk | Registered: Oct 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
|
Posted
pinch away!
Anyway...
continuing the Modern British idiom list:
"Anyway..." = "I am now about to tell you what I wanted to talk about before you so rudely interupted with your own unwarranted opinions"
"Please" = "do what I tell you at once"
"thankyou" = "you did what I told you when I said 'please'"
"sorry" = "you stepped on my toe! If you do it again I will hit you"
"bog standard" = "completely ordinary, normal, default"
"the dog's breakfast" = "all messed up and completely useless"
"the dog's bollocks" = "wonderful, awesome, the best of its kind"
NB It is not a mark of politeness to say "please" and "thank you" to strangers in England, it is a matter of rudeness not to. "Please" often accompanies even direct orders. Prison guards can say "please" to prisoners, teachers to students.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Sarkycow
La belle Dame sans merci
# 1012
|
Posted
Whoever divided England up earlier did it wrongly. It is divided by a line running horizontally through the Watford Gap, and one running perpendicular southwards to this line, straight through Oxford.
Civilisation is south of the Watford Gap and east of Oxford.
Rural but ok area is south of the Watford gap and west of Oxford.
Barbarian country with big "Here be dragons" signs lies north of the Watford Gap.
Viki, living in the heart of civilisation
--------------------
“Just because your voice reaches halfway around the world doesn't mean you are wiser than when it reached only to the end of the bar.”
Posts: 10787 | Registered: Jul 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Campbell Ritchie
Shipmate
# 730
|
Posted
Thank you Ken. Of course the Yorkshirefolk know Yorkshire is the centre of the Universe, and Nicolemrw's "centre of the universe," is only a newer version of it!
Sarkycow, you must explain to non-Midlanders that Watford Gap is nowhere near the town of a similar name in Herts. And that civilisation is this side of it.
--------------------
The greatest problem about Christianity is that it condemns you to eternity with me.
Posts: 396 | From: Middlesbrough | Registered: Jul 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Mad Geo
Ship's navel gazer
# 2939
|
Posted
Ken Said:
quote:
"the dog's breakfast" = "all messed up and completely useless"
"the dog's bollocks" = "wonderful, awesome, the best of its kind"
Can anyone explain to me why the Dog's Breakfast is bad versus the Dog's Balls is good?
On second thought, maybe I don't want to know....
--------------------
Diax's Rake - "Never believe a thing simply because you want it to be true"
Posts: 11730 | From: People's Republic of SoCal | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Anselmina
Ship's barmaid
# 3032
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mad Geo:
Ken Said:
quote:
"the dog's breakfast" = "all messed up and completely useless"
"the dog's bollocks" = "wonderful, awesome, the best of its kind"
Can anyone explain to me why the Dog's Breakfast is bad versus the Dog's Balls is good?
On second thought, maybe I don't want to know....
It's bollocks, MadGeo, bollocks....
--------------------
Irish dogs needing homes! http://www.dogactionwelfaregroup.ie/ Greyhounds and Lurchers are shipped over to England for rehoming too!
Posts: 10002 | From: Scotland the Brave | Registered: Jul 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Mad Geo
Ship's navel gazer
# 2939
|
Posted
Sorry, forgot where I was for a minute ![[Yipee]](graemlins/spin.gif)
--------------------
Diax's Rake - "Never believe a thing simply because you want it to be true"
Posts: 11730 | From: People's Republic of SoCal | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
The Machine Elf
Irregular polytope
# 1622
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mad Geo:
Can anyone explain to me why the Dog's Breakfast is bad versus the Dog's Balls is good?
If the dog's breakfast was any good, it would have been eaten the night before, not scraped off the plates into its bowl.
The dog's bollocks (or the cat's whiskers) are (for humans) things that can't be licked!
quote:
Originally posted by Mad Geo:
On second thought, maybe I don't want to know....
TME
--------------------
Elves of any kind are strange folk.
Posts: 1298 | From: the edge of the deep green sea | Registered: Oct 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Anselmina
Ship's barmaid
# 3032
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Machine Elf:
The dog's bollocks (or the cat's whiskers) are (for humans) things that can't be licked!
TME
Ahem! More like (for humans) shouldn't be licked? ![[Puke]](graemlins/puke.gif)
--------------------
Irish dogs needing homes! http://www.dogactionwelfaregroup.ie/ Greyhounds and Lurchers are shipped over to England for rehoming too!
Posts: 10002 | From: Scotland the Brave | Registered: Jul 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Lady A
Narnian Lady
# 3126
|
Posted
If someone from York could enlighten me... When I was there, I mentioned that I was part Scottish. My mother's friend gleefully told me that it was still quite legal to shoot a Scot by arrow from the walls of York (I haven't seen this mark of a Yorkshireman yet in the posts....)
Posts: 2545 | From: The Lion's Mane, Narnia | Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Campbellite
Ut unum sint
# 1202
|
Posted
In Texas, it is a legal defence to say that the victim "needed shootin'".
--------------------
I upped mine. Up yours.
Suffering for Jesus since 1966.
WTFWED?
Posts: 12001 | From: between keyboard and chair | Registered: Aug 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
jedijudy*
Jedi defender of ship's cats
# 1059
|
Posted
quote:
ken said:
Capital: Birmingham. People who have seen both Birmingham and Akron, Ohio, usually say they find Akron more charming.
Is that pronounced "Bir-min-HAY-yam"?
jj
--------------------
ENFP...do you see a "T" anywhere??? I don't think so.
Posts: 3248 | From: Soon to be inhabiting identity # 333!!! | Registered: Aug 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Alaric the Goth
Shipmate
# 511
|
Posted
No, jj, it's pronounced 'Burmingum' or just 'Brum'. And ken is right about people not going there - I've lived in England for my 36 years and have never been there! (Have been through it on trains, and round the outside by car, but never set foot there. Maybe I never shall..)
And ken, it's 'Penshaw' Monument, not 'Penshore'. This is from someone who grew up <10 miles from it.
Posts: 3322 | From: West Thriding | Registered: Jun 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
The Machine Elf
Irregular polytope
# 1622
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Anselmina:
quote:
Originally posted by The Machine Elf:
The dog's bollocks (or the cat's whiskers) are (for humans) things that can't be licked!
TME
Ahem! More like (for humans) shouldn't be licked?
A dog can lick his, and a cat can lick hers, but men and women can't lick theirs, so the DB or CW is something it's not humanly possible to 'lick' (ie beat).
TME
--------------------
Elves of any kind are strange folk.
Posts: 1298 | From: the edge of the deep green sea | Registered: Oct 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by jedijudy:
quote:
ken said:
Capital: Birmingham. People who have seen both Birmingham and Akron, Ohio, usually say they find Akron more charming.
Is that pronounced "Bir-min-HAY-yam"?
jj
No, it is Birmingham, Warwickshire; not Birmingham, some-US-state-or-other.
It is pronounced "BRUM-er-gmm". Or just "Brum".
It is Britain's second city in population, though both Glasgow & Manchester have a lot more cultural impact - maybe because Brum is just too near to London. Or maybe because people really don't like it, for whatever reason. When they do opinion polls on British accents, Birmingham regularly comes off lowest.
People outside Birmingham think of it - probably wrongly - as being strangled by motorways ("freeways" for the Atlantically challenged), lacking any distinctive architecture, difficult to find your way around. Manchester is associated the world over with clubbing & football, Brum isn't.
Also Birmingham is industrial enough not to be pretty but not industrial enough to be a post-industrial disaster-zone like Glasgow or Tyneside . A city can make a reputation, or even part of a living, out of being all but derelict. Birmingham has the disadvantage of being about 7/8 of the way down the ladder - it is one of the poorer parts of Britain but nowhere near the poorest. Same goes for Leeds, another city unpopular with those who don't know it. FWIW the poorest large city in Britain is easily Liverpool with Glasgow probably next.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Alaric the Goth:
No, jj, it's pronounced 'Burmingum' or just 'Brum'.
Unless you come from Dudley in which case you say "BER-bi-gub"
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
ChrisT
One of the Good Guys™
# 62
|
Posted
Leeds (UK), and maybe some other shipmates will back me up on this one, is MUCH better than it used to be. They have made huge improvements to the city centre, and (in some circles at least) it is Britains Second City. I think that many local councils are attempting to do something to make town and cities more attractive. But have you noticed the first buildings to get a makeover are the council offices and town halls? Hmmmmm
--------------------
Firmly on dry land
Posts: 6489 | From: Here, there and everywhere | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Alaric the Goth
Shipmate
# 511
|
Posted
'Twas Leeds (and Bradford, in that order) that I was referring to when I posted this:
Posted by me!: quote:
West Yorkshire is full of students and former students, curry houses and Tetley's pubs (see below). It has two big cities, one of which is better than it used to be and the other is as bad as it ever was.
BTW Chris, I put 'Elmet' in my address as in the Dark Ages it (the British kingdomn of Elfed)covered Leeds (Loidis in Elmet), where I live, and Bradford (where I work, and post on SoF). It doesn't imply that I live in Barwick-in-Elmet or Sherburn-in Elmet!
--------------------
'Angels and demons dancing in my head,
Lunatics and monsters underneath my bed' ('Totem', Rush)
Posts: 3322 | From: West Thriding | Registered: Jun 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Rev per Minute
Shipmate
# 69
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Machine Elf:
quote:
Originally posted by Anselmina:
quote:
Originally posted by The Machine Elf:
The dog's bollocks (or the cat's whiskers) are (for humans) things that can't be licked!
TME
Ahem! More like (for humans) shouldn't be licked?
A dog can lick his, and a cat can lick hers, but men and women can't lick theirs, so the DB or CW is something it's not humanly possible to 'lick' (ie beat).
TME
Men AND women?
--------------------
"Allons-y!" "Geronimo!" "Oh, for God's sake!" The Day of the Doctor
At the end of the day, we face our Maker alongside Jesus. RIP ken
Posts: 2696 | From: my desk (if I can find the keyboard under this mess) | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Anselmina
Ship's barmaid
# 3032
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Machine Elf:
quote:
Originally posted by Anselmina:
quote:
Originally posted by The Machine Elf:
The dog's bollocks (or the cat's whiskers) are (for humans) things that can't be licked!
TME
Ahem! More like (for humans) shouldn't be licked?
A dog can lick his, and a cat can lick hers, but men and women can't lick theirs, so the DB or CW is something it's not humanly possible to 'lick' (ie beat). TME
<sigh!> I know. I was trying (and obviously failed) to indulge in a little light-hearted 'wordplay'. If you read the line you wrote, in a literal sense: The dogs bollocks are for humans things that can't be licked. Then my reply of ' for humans shouldn't be licked?' was a whimsical reflection on the advisability of a human licking a dog's bollocks. <sigh> Sorry not to have made that more explicit..... I'll try better next time. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
--------------------
Irish dogs needing homes! http://www.dogactionwelfaregroup.ie/ Greyhounds and Lurchers are shipped over to England for rehoming too!
Posts: 10002 | From: Scotland the Brave | Registered: Jul 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
The Machine Elf
Irregular polytope
# 1622
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Rhisiart:
Men AND women?
dogs-> men
cats-> women
How many women do you know that can lick their whiskers?
(I know you were playing with the words Anselmina, but this is a thread for clarifications )
TME
--------------------
Elves of any kind are strange folk.
Posts: 1298 | From: the edge of the deep green sea | Registered: Oct 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Campbellite
Ut unum sint
# 1202
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
Unless you come from Dudley in which case you say "BER-bi-gub"
Hmmm...
That's how we pronounce the one in Alabama, but only if we have a REALLY BAD head cold.
--------------------
I upped mine. Up yours.
Suffering for Jesus since 1966.
WTFWED?
Posts: 12001 | From: between keyboard and chair | Registered: Aug 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
jedijudy*
Jedi defender of ship's cats
# 1059
|
Posted
Oooh! I got a map in the mail! (Wesley sites in Britain.) I see that lots of places were named after sites here in Florida:
Brighton, Inverness, Dunbar, Pembroke (they forgot the Pines),
Penzance,Windermere...goodness! Isn't that interesting! Just like home!
jj
--------------------
ENFP...do you see a "T" anywhere??? I don't think so.
Posts: 3248 | From: Soon to be inhabiting identity # 333!!! | Registered: Aug 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
KenWritez
Shipmate
# 3238
|
Posted
My ancestors are from Cornwall, according to my geneologically-able mom. I know nothing about it, except it's on the coast and cold, I think. I am thinking about coming out there sometime in the next few years to check it out and see if I really do have any distant family there.
Of course, some poor family trying to eat dinner and hearing a knock on their front door, open it to see ME there, in all my glory. "Hi! I'm your cousin 312 times removed!"
--------------------
"The truth is you're the weak. And I'm the tyranny of evil men. But I'm tryin', Ringo. I'm tryin' real hard to be a shepherd." --Quentin Tarantino, Pulp Fiction
My blog: http://oxygenofgrace.blogspot.com
Posts: 11102 | From: Left coast of Wonderland, by the rabbit hole | Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
ChrisT
One of the Good Guys™
# 62
|
Posted
Ah, Alaric, you never fail to impress me. Apologies abound in your direction. But there are parts of Bradford I like very much, the main part being at the bottom of Morley Street, an establishment known as the Kashmir...
--------------------
Firmly on dry land
Posts: 6489 | From: Here, there and everywhere | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Ian M
Shipmate
# 79
|
Posted
'Ber-bi-gub' - that's it, the whole bad head cold sound is right there. That's brilliant.
I just had to keep repeating it to myself (under my breath) while I read the rest of the thread, and was crying with laughter by the end...
Ian
Posts: 332 | From: Surbiton, Surrey, UK | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Linux Rose
Shipmate
# 2257
|
Posted
Under Yorkshire you left out
Religion: The cult of St Geoffrey de Fitzwilliam
Rosie
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
(9) Yorkshire - Real Yorkshire isn't quite the same as Yorkshire on the map because it is a state of mind more than a place. Being Yorkshire involves thinking you are better than anyone else, so much better in fact that you never bother to tell them. If you find yourself in a picturesque, if gritty, stone-build village on the edge of the moors and all the doors are shut - you're probably in Yorkshire. Except for Sheffield of course. Sheffield is so much unlike Yorkshire that it hardly fits here at all.
Capital: York
National Sport: horse-racing
Main outside influences: Outside? Influence? When ah were a lad, they 'ad no truck with them there outsiders, and the only influence they ever saw was aunt Maisie's nice cup of tea.
Industries: moaning about soft southerners
National Sport: cricket
[UBB Code edited]
[ 10. October 2002, 14:55: Message edited by: Belisarius ]
--------------------
Rosie - Worrier Princess
"Swans sing before they die, 'twere no bad thing
Should certain persons die before they sing"
[S T Coleridge]
Posts: 160 | From: Reading, UK | Registered: Jan 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Assistant Village Idiot
Shipmate
# 3266
|
Posted
Campbellite, the recurrent belief about the Southern accent being a preserved Elizabethan is partly, but not fully so. The American accents follow the British regional accents of the 17th C. East Anglia settled New England and gave rise to NE speech patterns; the Virginia cavaliers and other coastal southerners followed the accents common to the areas around Bristol and nearby counties; the Quaker setttlements of PA, DE, and NJ took many of their speech cues from the N Midlands; and Appalachia was settled by waves of Scots-English Borderers, including some who had moved to N Ireland the century before. Hence the regional variations in colonial cultures, many of which persist.
Before everyone jumps on me to point out that their Lincolnshire ancestors did too settle in SC or whatever, I do realize that this is an oversimplification. People moved from all regions British to all regions colonial. But in each of the above there was a 65-85% predominance, which is pretty high. An excellent, and readable book on the subject is Albion's Seed by the Brandeis history professor David Hackett Fischer
--------------------
formerly Logician
Posts: 885 | From: New Hampshire, US | Registered: Sep 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
Printer-friendly view
