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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Hell: Mogwai joins the Daily Mail's crusade to kill babies
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mogwai:
As ever I respect what you have to say. But I don't see how injecting mercury, formaldehyde, dioxin, and aborted foetal blood into the body (amongst many other things) can really make it healthier.
I hardly need comment.
[edited because the bad spelling in the title was making me gag, even after one reading]
[ 29. December 2014, 22:28: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
Context? Link to thread?
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Dumpling Jeff
Shipmate
# 12766
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Posted
Either some back story or comment is needed though.
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"There merely seems to be something rather glib in defending the police without question one moment and calling the Crusades-- or war in general-- bad the next. The second may be an extension of the first." - Alogon
Posts: 2572 | From: Nomad | Registered: Jun 2007
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
Mogwai is riding the anti-vaccination bandwagon. On a thread that was supposedly about Holy Communion, not pathetic pseudo-science.
The "As ever I respect what you have to say" line merely adds smug, smirking, insincerity to an already utterly nasty post.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Divine Outlaw
Gin-soaked boy
# 2252
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Posted
Tin hat stupidity. It would be laughable, were it not for the notable cases of children having died from diseases for which we have vaccines.
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insert amusing sig. here
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Nicolemr
Shipmate
# 28
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Posted
My brother is one of those people who are medically not able to have a flu vaccination (because he has an egg white allergy.) he also has very bad lungs, therefore there's a good chance that getting the flu might turn into pneumonia in him. Therefore he is dependent on herd immunity for his continued health and possibly his life. So idiocy like Mogwai's really makes me SERIOUSLY ANGRY. ![[Mad]](angryfire.gif)
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On pilgrimage in the endless realms of Cyberia, currently traveling by ship. Now with live journal!
Posts: 11803 | From: New York City "The City Carries On" | Registered: May 2001
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Erin
Meaner than Godzilla
# 2
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Posted
Anti-vaxxers should be sterilized and then shipped to an island with all of the measles, mumps, smallpox, flu and polio the world can find. They do not deserve to live.
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Commandment number one: shut the hell up.
Posts: 17140 | From: 330 miles north of paradise | Registered: Mar 2001
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QLib
Bad Example
# 43
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Posted
I support vaccination for childhood diseases, but I'm not going to have the flu vaccine. Admittedly, that's partly because I think the chances are that I'm old enough to have some level of immunity anyway.
But another factor is that I've read quite a bit about the effect of the annual flu vaccine and it seems to me that, while it's fine for vulnerable groups, it's really not appropriate for everybody. There's a risk either way, and I reserve the right to pick my own risk.
I don't think the herd immunity thing will work with any flu, least of all this one.
eta- X-posted with Erin. Ho hum
[ 19. October 2009, 20:24: Message edited by: QLib ]
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Tradition is the handing down of the flame, not the worship of the ashes Gustav Mahler.
Posts: 8913 | From: Page 28 | Registered: May 2001
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Kid Who Cracked
Shipmate
# 13963
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Erin:
Anti-vaxxers should be sterilized and then shipped to an island with all of the measles, mumps, smallpox, flu and polio the world can find. They do not deserve to live.
Thank you for saying my mother doesn't deserve to live. Very thoughtful. I'll keep that in mind at her funeral.
Posts: 532 | From: Texas | Registered: Jul 2008
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Emma Louise
Storm in a teapot
# 3571
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Posted
After seeing my baby incredibly ill with whooping cough I have an incredibly low opinion of anti-vaxers.
Posts: 12719 | From: Enid Blyton territory. | Registered: Nov 2002
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Figbash
The Doubtful Guest
# 9048
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by QLib:
I don't think the herd immunity thing will work with any flu, least of all this one.
Er why not? If most of the people you meet are immune, the probability of your developing the illness is lessened. This applies to pretty much any infectious disease.
Posts: 1209 | From: Gashlycrumb | Registered: Feb 2005
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hatless
Shipmate
# 3365
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Erin:
Anti-vaxxers should be sterilized and then shipped to an island with all of the measles, mumps, smallpox, flu and polio the world can find. They do not deserve to live.
I agree with this, mainly because of the excitement I feel at seeing a word with two xs.
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My crazy theology in novel form
Posts: 4531 | From: Stinkers | Registered: Sep 2002
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QLib
Bad Example
# 43
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Figbash:
quote:
Originally posted by QLib:
I don't think the herd immunity thing will work with any flu, least of all this one.
Er why not? If most of the people you meet are immune, the probability of your developing the illness is lessened. This applies to pretty much any infectious disease.
I think it won't work this time because it's out there, it's spreading quite rapidly and the vaccination programme hasn't got going yet. It took years for the herd immunity thing to work with smallpox, didn't it?
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Tradition is the handing down of the flame, not the worship of the ashes Gustav Mahler.
Posts: 8913 | From: Page 28 | Registered: May 2001
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Dumpling Jeff
Shipmate
# 12766
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Posted
Erin wrote, quote:
Anti-vaxxers should be sterilized and then shipped to an island with all of the measles, mumps, smallpox, flu and polio the world can find. They do not deserve to live.
No Erin, tell us how you really feel.
Qlib, I don't like the "vulnerable category" thing. This flu seems to hit healthy people the hardest. Therefore healthy people, especially travelers, teachers, and others who might spread it should go first while there's a limited supply.
Hatless, you need a girlfriend. Add some excitement to your life.
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"There merely seems to be something rather glib in defending the police without question one moment and calling the Crusades-- or war in general-- bad the next. The second may be an extension of the first." - Alogon
Posts: 2572 | From: Nomad | Registered: Jun 2007
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Figbash
The Doubtful Guest
# 9048
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by QLib:
[I think it won't work this time because it's out there, it's spreading quite rapidly and the vaccination programme hasn't got going yet. It took years for the herd immunity thing to work with smallpox, didn't it?
But if enough people among the vulnerable groups are vaccinated, then herd immunity will kick in. The problem with small-pox was that the vulnerable group was everybody.
Posts: 1209 | From: Gashlycrumb | Registered: Feb 2005
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QLib
Bad Example
# 43
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Dumpling Jeff:
I don't like the "vulnerable category" thing. This flu seems to hit healthy people the hardest. Therefore healthy people, especially travelers, teachers, and others who might spread it should go first while there's a limited supply.
No, you're just presenting an argument for having different categories of vulnerable people this time. It makes far more sense for my students to be vaccinated than for me to be.
At least three of my colleagues have had swine flu among close family members in their respective households and so far there is no sign of any particular effect on the students.
eta - X-posted with Figbash - you may be right, Figgy, but then you're arguing for vulnerable groups to be vaccinated, which I'm happy to agree with anyway.
[ 19. October 2009, 21:22: Message edited by: QLib ]
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Tradition is the handing down of the flame, not the worship of the ashes Gustav Mahler.
Posts: 8913 | From: Page 28 | Registered: May 2001
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Erin
Meaner than Godzilla
# 2
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kid Who Cracked:
quote:
Originally posted by Erin:
Anti-vaxxers should be sterilized and then shipped to an island with all of the measles, mumps, smallpox, flu and polio the world can find. They do not deserve to live.
Thank you for saying my mother doesn't deserve to live. Very thoughtful. I'll keep that in mind at her funeral.
You're welcome!! She should be thankful that a majority of the civilized world doesn't share her retarded views, so that she can live with the benefits of herd immunity. Which really enables her to LIVE.
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Commandment number one: shut the hell up.
Posts: 17140 | From: 330 miles north of paradise | Registered: Mar 2001
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Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
Mogwai is riding the anti-vaccination bandwagon. On a thread that was supposedly about Holy Communion, not pathetic pseudo-science.
The "As ever I respect what you have to say" line merely adds smug, smirking, insincerity to an already utterly nasty post.
And the only surprise is that Mogwai was using the opportunity to spout half-witted trash about vaccination in an utterly unrelated thread, not pornography as usual. Or maybe the braincell decided to get laid and not need porn any more?
Personally, if ken is going to hand out a good thrashing round the head with the clue stick, I'm first in the queue to shake his (hopefully sore, following really vigorous thrashing), hand. I fear, however, he will get little satisfaction - outwitting the little scrote and their feeble, half-formed arguments is like shooting fish in a barrel.
AG
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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869
Posts: 3574 | From: The wardrobe of my soul | Registered: Jul 2007
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Spiffy
Ship's WonderSheep
# 5267
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Posted
I want Mogwai to explain what that comment has to do with Holy Communion, personally. I haven't had enough mental gymnastics in my life lately.
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Looking for a simple solution to all life's problems? We are proud to present obstinate denial. Accept no substitute. Accept nothing.
--Night Vale Radio Twitter Account
Posts: 10281 | From: Beervana | Registered: Dec 2003
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duchess
Ship's Blue Blooded Lady
# 2764
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Posted
Jenny McCarthy just called, she wants to book a trip to this fabulous island Erin spoke of, one way ticket. Let's ship her sweet ass there, along with Lisa Bonet.
[edited.]
[ 20. October 2009, 03:29: Message edited by: duchess ]
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♬♭ We're setting sail to the place on the map from which nobody has ever returned ♫♪♮
Ship of Fools-World Party
Posts: 11197 | From: Do you know the way? | Registered: May 2002
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RooK
1 of 6
# 1852
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Posted
Vaccination against easily preventable diseases should not be optional for people without life-threatening repercussions. Like stopping at red lights - I don't give even the slightest fuck how much of a minor inconvenience they are for any particular individual, it is meaningless compared to the utility of the general conformance.
Posts: 15274 | From: Portland, Oregon, USA, Earth | Registered: Nov 2001
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jacobsen
seeker
# 14998
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RooK:
it is meaningless compared to the utility of the general conformance.
Wonderful political speak, Rook. Why not simply say that the greater good of the greater number is what counts?
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But God, holding a candle, looks for all who wander, all who search. - Shifra Alon
Beauty fades, dumb is forever-Judge Judy
The man who made time, made plenty.
Posts: 8040 | From: Æbleskiver country | Registered: Aug 2009
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Mili
Shipmate
# 3254
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Posted
They've begun vaccinating for swine flu in Australia now, and so far I haven't heard any reports of anyone dying or having severe side effects. I had the vaccine a couple of weeks ago on my doctor's recommendation - I'm asthmatic and have had pneumonia and chest infections a number of times over the last couple of years.
Apparently the elderly and those with heart problems are considered the most vulnerable, but as Australia has twice as many doses as required for the whole population I didn't have to feel guilty for taking someone elses dose. They originally thought two vaccinations would be necessary, but then found out one was enough.
I really don't understand why people are anti-vaccination. Have they never walked through an old graveyard and seen the graves where multiple children died of what are now preventable diseases, within days of each other?
And I agree with Emma on the whooping cough vaccine. I missed more than 8 weeks of my first year of school with whooping cough - I was vaccinated but they had reduced the number of injections to 3 that year and later realised 4 were necessary. Or maybe the vac didn't take, and I caught it because other parents hadn't bothered to get their kids vaccinated. My younger sister was only a few months old at the time, so not vaccinated against whooping cough yet, but thankfully could be given an emergency vaccine and didn't catch it from me. It can be very severe and even deadly for babies.
Posts: 1015 | From: Melbourne, Australia | Registered: Aug 2002
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five
Shipmate
# 14492
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Posted
So which does Mogwai think kills more babies? The aborted foetal blood he claims goes into vaccines or the diseases that we now vaccinate against? (Thankfully this is not now a directly possible comparison, but as much as I'm against abortion, an awful lot more babies have died, and far more would die from flu, polio, rubella, measels, whooping cough et al. And not just the babies, but their parents and so on.)
I'm not quite sure that herd immunity will happen with swine flu, as from what I understand flus aren't generally around long enough in the population to let the herd immunity build up. I also seem to recall that at least for past flu vaccines, (and for all I know this one may well be different), it never entirely prevented you getting the flu, but what it did was if you did get it, it wouldn't be as bad as you'd already have some sort of immunological response to it. And while this may well change, deaths from flu (and deaths from swine flu so far) are in people with other health conditions, such as weakened immune systems (a category which includes babies and often the elderly), heart problems, etc. It would suck to get swine flu if you're otherwise healthy, but you should be able to fight it off though you'd be down for a bit, and anti-virals will help it not last as long. But if you have other problems, it is a much bigger problem. So the whether or not to have the flu vaccine is a bigger personal question. From what I can tell herd immunity won't quite come into it.
Personally, I'm having it. One, because I have an underlying condition (mild asthma) and two because I assist heavily with the care of my elderly mother, who has severe breathing problems. But those are both categories that require protection. If I was a school teacher or a health care provider, I would also have it. But if I was an otherwise healthy individual who didn't usually get flu shots every winter, I just don't know.
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And Jesus said 'the greatest commandments are these: Love the Lord your God with 10% of your time and energy, and Pamphlet your neighbour with tracts' - Birdseye
Posts: 1250 | Registered: Jan 2009
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Max.
Shipmate
# 5846
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Erin:
Anti-vaxxers should be sterilized and then shipped to an island with all of the measles, mumps, smallpox, flu and polio the world can find. They do not deserve to live.
![[Paranoid]](graemlins/paranoid.gif) I'm glad I live in a world where people have the freedom to vaccinate or not. If I didn't know better I would think your reaction would be because you make big bucks from working for a pharmaceutical company (which probably overcharges for vaccinations).
Max.
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For the sake of His sorrowful Passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world.
Posts: 9716 | From: North Yorkshire | Registered: May 2004
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The Weeder
Shipmate
# 11321
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Max.:
quote:
Originally posted by Erin:
Anti-vaxxers should be sterilized and then shipped to an island with all of the measles, mumps, smallpox, flu and polio the world can find. They do not deserve to live.
I'm glad I live in a world where people have the freedom to vaccinate or not. If I didn't know better I would think your reaction would be because you make big bucks from working for a pharmaceutical company (which probably overcharges for vaccinations).
Max.
Why would you think that someone who disagrees with you must have an ulterior motive?
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Still missing the gator
Posts: 2542 | From: LaLa Land | Registered: Apr 2006
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five
Shipmate
# 14492
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Posted
I agree with Erin, though I wouldn't put it quite so strongly as "they don't deserve to live." Then again, I don't have Erin's flare for invective, which I genuinely mean as a compliment. I certainly think to myself "well, the disease they refuse to get vaccinated against will make them or their loved ones suffer when it gets them, and quite possibly kill them. And if their idiocy harms someone in my family, I will not be held responsible for my actions."
I wish I lived in a world where people did have the freedom to get vaccinated, Max. Large swathes of the world don't even have the option due to cost. What you're missing about the anti-vaccine people is that they don't want anyone to have it, for their own personal reasons. A small percentage of people cannot be vaccinated, for medical reasons. That's where "herd immunity" is so vital, but it is still a bit of a gamble for those people who cannot be vaccinated, and they know it. The people who refuse to be vaccinated? And refuse to have their children vaccinated? Still a gamble, and also reduce herd immunity for the rest of us, as to have herd immunity there needs to be a critical mass of people. The critical mass can accommodate the small percentage who can't be vaccinated, but it in no way can accomodate the percentage who won't.
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And Jesus said 'the greatest commandments are these: Love the Lord your God with 10% of your time and energy, and Pamphlet your neighbour with tracts' - Birdseye
Posts: 1250 | Registered: Jan 2009
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ianjmatt
Shipmate
# 5683
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Erin:
Anti-vaxxers should be sterilized and then shipped to an island with all of the measles, mumps, smallpox, flu and polio the world can find. They do not deserve to live.
Anti-anti-vaxxxxers should be rounded up, placed into small vans and ripped to pieces with steady machine-gun fire. Those who don't believe people derserve to live do not deserve to live.
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You might want to visit my blog:
http://lostintheheartofsomewhere.blogspot.com
But maybe not
Posts: 676 | From: Shropshire | Registered: Mar 2004
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ianjmatt:
quote:
Originally posted by Erin:
Anti-vaxxers should be sterilized and then shipped to an island with all of the measles, mumps, smallpox, flu and polio the world can find. They do not deserve to live.
Anti-anti-vaxxxxers should be rounded up, placed into small vans and ripped to pieces with steady machine-gun fire. Those who don't believe people derserve to live do not deserve to live.
OK then, let's compromise. Instead of Erin's drastic suggestion, how about these "anti-vaxxers" are condemned to live with mumps, rubella, smallpox, flu and polio for the rest of their lives?
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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ianjmatt
Shipmate
# 5683
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
quote:
Originally posted by ianjmatt:
quote:
Originally posted by Erin:
Anti-vaxxers should be sterilized and then shipped to an island with all of the measles, mumps, smallpox, flu and polio the world can find. They do not deserve to live.
Anti-anti-vaxxxxers should be rounded up, placed into small vans and ripped to pieces with steady machine-gun fire. Those who don't believe people derserve to live do not deserve to live.
OK then, let's compromise. Instead of Erin's drastic suggestion, how about these "anti-vaxxers" are condemned to live with mumps, rubella, smallpox, flu and polio for the rest of their lives?
OK - as long as smokers get forced to breathe in their own 'passive smoke', drivers have their fumes fed into their cars, fat people have to pay more for public transport (and health care), heavy drinkers get refused free A & E care (and get billed for policing the town centres on a Friday night), bad drivers get refused car insurance (as it pushes up MY premiums) etc etc etc.
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You might want to visit my blog:
http://lostintheheartofsomewhere.blogspot.com
But maybe not
Posts: 676 | From: Shropshire | Registered: Mar 2004
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dj_ordinaire
Host
# 4643
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ianjmatt:
OK - as long as smokers get forced to breathe in their own 'passive smoke', drivers have their fumes fed into their cars, fat people have to pay more for public transport (and health care), heavy drinkers get refused free A & E care (and get billed for policing the town centres on a Friday night), bad drivers get refused car insurance (as it pushes up MY premiums) etc etc etc.
Most of those things already happen. Drivers with a lot of crashes to their name pay higher insurance premiums, obese people often have to buy two airline seats, alcoholics can be denied health-care unless they are seeking treatment and pay heavy taxes on every beverage they buy. As to the smokers - erm, they not only absorb most of their own passive smoke, they also get several thousand times more toxins through active smoking. That's kind of the point of the whole smoking-thing.
So actually your argument seems pretty ... well, shot.
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Flinging wide the gates...
Posts: 10335 | From: Hanging in the balance of the reality of man | Registered: Jun 2003
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Max.:
I'm glad I live in a world where people have the freedom to vaccinate or not.
As am I. But that doesn't mean I don't regard anyone who exercises their right to refuse as a knuckle-dragging fuckwit who is deliberately making the world a more dangerous place for everyone, and thus is eminently worthy of invective.
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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Max.
Shipmate
# 5846
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by Max.:
I'm glad I live in a world where people have the freedom to vaccinate or not.
As am I. But that doesn't mean I don't regard anyone who exercises their right to refuse as a knuckle-dragging fuckwit who is deliberately making the world a more dangerous place for everyone, and thus is eminently worthy of invective.
That's not what I said... That's what Erin is trying to argue though, she'd like them all rounded up and killed too.
I just don't agree with that, at all.
Max. who has had all his vaccinations but knows and respects people who have not and have chosen not to vaccinate their children either
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For the sake of His sorrowful Passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world.
Posts: 9716 | From: North Yorkshire | Registered: May 2004
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Presbyopic
Shipmate
# 10596
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Posted
My problems with Mogwai's statement and those like it in the OP is that it is so typical of antivax scare tactics, backed often by very dubious or non existent science.
Medical community: We have developed a vaccine for (insert your illness here) It's finally finished and approved after years of being tested in double blind studies and has been shown to be 97% effective. With cautions to a tiny sector of the population, this is safe to use. You can read more about the research behind it here in this extensive list of medical journals. This will save millions of lives all over the world. The information is all out there to educate yourselves about this wonderful development.
Us: Ooh that great!
Antivaxxer: Do you know I read somewhere it contains aborted foetal blood, frog urine and llama snot?
Us: Oh that's horrific. We're not giving our babies that.
And with one unscientific emotion driven statement,years of research go flying out the window and the public are struck down with fear.
If you've ever watched a little baby struggling with Whooping Cough, you would get very pissed at fear mongering statements like that.
Posts: 699 | From: USA | Registered: Oct 2005
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Divine Outlaw
Gin-soaked boy
# 2252
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Max.:
I'm glad I live in a world where people have the freedom to vaccinate or not.
No doubt a good thing. I'm far more ambivalent about a world where people have the freedom to allow their children to be vaccinated or not.
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insert amusing sig. here
Posts: 8705 | Registered: Jan 2002
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multipara
Shipmate
# 2918
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Posted
Max, why do you respect all your non-immunising friends?
Do you think they are original thinkers?
Would you respect any one of them the less of one of their kids with a mild case of measles passed it on to another kid who died? Sure you could be sympathetic but in your hear of hearts would you not think "you idiots"?
Mind you, at your age you are not likely to know too many people who survived the last polio pandemic (early 1950s). I've got a few contemporaries who are survivors with significant disabilities and who would have been glad to have had the Salk vaccine ( not available till 1956).
I'm just wondering how many of these idiots will deny their girls the HPV vaccine once the kids hit 12 (and boys when our tight-arsed governments realise that it would be cost-effective to jab the boys too) .
In this day and age and in our relatively affluent society there is no bloody excuse. The medical contra- indications to the basic childhood immunisations are few and far between. If a child is immunosuppressed (eg HIV positive) then the live vaccines such as MMR or chickenpox are out-bad luck if such a kid is exposed to infection as that kid could die. The parents have to cross their fingers and hope for the best.
Not all that long ago there was an epidemic of polio in eastern Asia; the bug had spread via people who had gone to Mecca for the Hajj. The original source f infection was from Nigeria, and was traced to folk from a district where the mullahs had told the locals that the polio vaccine would make them and their children sterile. That was believed, with catastrophic results in terms of death and disability, since Mecca would have been full of people and the sanitation would not have been of the best.
Think again.
m
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quod scripsi, scripsi
Posts: 4985 | From: new south wales | Registered: Jun 2002
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Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by multipara:
Mind you, at your age you are not likely to know too many people who survived the last polio pandemic (early 1950s).
I've often wondered this myself - I encountered the first polio victim I'd met here in the UK for at least a decade recently, and they were probably pre-Salk in age (I'm a little under twice Max's age). I can't help thinking that people have forotten that, actually, these diseases can kill, and can really fuck up the survivors for the rest of their lives. Someone like India or Nigeria you might be a lot more aware of this.
Interestingly I also recall reading that the "sugar lump" vaccine for polio was perceived as being safer than an injection - when in fact the older vaccine had much higher rates of complications, so it's definitely a question of perception.
Sadly, some people are utter fuckmuppets, and I'd count Mogwai amongst them. I wonder when they're going to surface from beneath their bridge and explain the liturgical significance?
AG
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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869
Posts: 3574 | From: The wardrobe of my soul | Registered: Jul 2007
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Presbyopic
Shipmate
# 10596
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sandemaniac:
quote:
Originally posted by multipara:
Mind you, at your age you are not likely to know too many people who survived the last polio pandemic (early 1950s).
I've often wondered this myself - I encountered the first polio victim I'd met here in the UK for at least a decade recently, and they were probably pre-Salk in age (I'm a little under twice Max's age). I can't help thinking that people have forotten that, actually, these diseases can kill, and can really fuck up the survivors for the rest of their lives. Someone like India or Nigeria you might be a lot more aware of this.
Interestingly I also recall reading that the "sugar lump" vaccine for polio was perceived as being safer than an injection - when in fact the older vaccine had much higher rates of complications, so it's definitely a question of perception.
Sadly, some people are utter fuckmuppets, and I'd count Mogwai amongst them. I wonder when they're going to surface from beneath their bridge and explain the liturgical significance?
AG
I'm 48 and had a few polio survivors as friends. You knew them immediately by the braces on their skinny wasted little legs. Beyond my age you are unlikely to come across many as I was on the very edge of the era.
However, my mother had 3 children pre 1956 and I remember her telling me of the fear of every parent during the pandemic that they would lose a child to polio. They felt helpless, vulnerable and quite frankly, terrified.
Come the mid 50's and early 60's and the sense of relief for parents was astounding. They finally had a weapon to protect their children against this childhood menace. Then followed more miracles for Diptheria, Whooping Cough and so on.
Weren't many anti vaxxers around back in those days. Just a lot of grateful parents with their children by their sides.
Posts: 699 | From: USA | Registered: Oct 2005
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Dumpling Jeff
Shipmate
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Posted
Max, I also am glad to live in a world where we're free. But I'm sad to live in a world where people are stupid enough to avoid vaccines.
Really, you have to be stupid to avoid them, like playing Russian Roulette stupid.
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"There merely seems to be something rather glib in defending the police without question one moment and calling the Crusades-- or war in general-- bad the next. The second may be an extension of the first." - Alogon
Posts: 2572 | From: Nomad | Registered: Jun 2007
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Earwig
Pincered Beastie
# 12057
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Dumpling Jeff:
Max, I also am glad to live in a world where we're free. But I'm sad to live in a world where people are stupid enough to avoid vaccines.
Really, you have to be stupid to avoid them, like playing Russian Roulette stupid.
Or breaking the 10Cs in the Styx stupid?
Posts: 3120 | From: Yorkshire | Registered: Nov 2006
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Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Presbyopic:
I'm 48 and had a few polio survivors as friends. You knew them immediately by the braces on their skinny wasted little legs.
Funnily enough, in the canteen at work today was a visitor - 60ish, dragging a wasted leg, just a few minutes after my earlier post. I think it very likely he was a polio victim.
So... What, I wonder, do the anti-vaxxers say about THIS pic?
That was the most developed nation in the world, and all they could do was stick people in one of those. If you were bad enough to need an iron lung, that was where you were going to spend the rest of your life...
And now some fuckwits think we should go back...
AG
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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869
Posts: 3574 | From: The wardrobe of my soul | Registered: Jul 2007
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Uncle Pete
Loyaute me lie
# 10422
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Posted
When I was a boy in the 50s and 60s and undergoing treatment in the hospitals I watched many other boys (well the ward was same sex) die due to exposure to polio contacted pre-Salk. It wasn't fun. Eradication of tuberculosis and malaria in significant parts of the world are good things too. Smallpox anyone? That's gone, for the most part. Even chickenpox and measles. And mumps.
I am a firm believer in vaccination. You don't want to be vaccinated? Fine. Just don't bore me with your rationalisations.
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Even more so than I was before
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IntellectByProxy
Larger than you think
# 3185
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Max.:
Max. who...respects people who have chosen not to vaccinate their children
Let me tell you a story.
I am part of a workers' union - I am a professional engineer, rather than a factory worker, and so I am quite unusual in my union membership.
My union negotiates pay, arbitrates at grievances and disciplinaries, and generally makes working life more pleasant and remunerative for everyone.
My colleague (amongst many) has not joined the union. His argument is that they do all the stuff listed above regardless of whether he pays them £14 a month, so only a mug would pay for something he can get for free.
Of course that means that he is a twat. The union has power because it has a quorum of members; if the herd drops below quorum then the union has no power and the employer can bend its employees over and roger them.
So it is with vaccination: if you don't vaccinate then you'll probably be ok because everyone around you is vaccinated: you're free-loading on their good sense. Unfortunately once enough people think like you, everyone gets bent over and rogered.
Being against vaccination ignores the credible, lengthy, and mightily established safety record and efficacy of vaccination.
Why would you respect someone for having a view which was so stupid, demonstrably moronic, and selfish?
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www.zambiadiaries.blogspot.com
Posts: 3482 | From: The opposite | Registered: Aug 2002
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Spiffy
Ship's WonderSheep
# 5267
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Posted
I didn't get several of my jabs as a kid, because in their Infinite Wisdom, the doctors at the HMO decided they didn't need to give them any more as the illnesses were, I dunno, imaginary or no longer a problem or something.
Therefore, I had whooping cough as a 12 year old.
Let me explain to those of you who have never had whooping cough, or listened to someone suffer from whooping cough. It is called 'whooping cough' because you cough so hard that you collapse your lungs, and the sound you make trying to gasp for breath is "whoop! whoop!" This cough continues for over three months, which is why it's also called "100-Day Cough".
I, personally, coughed so hard I broke a rib.
If you've never had the joy of a broken rib, let me explain-- when you bust a rib, breathing hurts. When you bust a rib, coughing is equivalent to stabbing yourself in the side with a 60cm knitting needle and burying it to the hilt. So, breaking a rib due to intense coughing that will not go away for MONTHS is the kind of torment that, if I believed in an afterlife Hell, would be well suited to that demenses.
Whooping cough is considered one of the 'mild' diseases in the usual round of jabs, which means it's not liable to kill you, but it makes you wish you were dead. So when I found out that your natural immunity from suffering through it disappears after a decade or so, I demanded a new jab from my doctor.
Because, by the grace of God and God's inspiration upon biological researchers, I do not have to suffer that horror ever again.
Therefore, in my book, anyone who 'respects' people who will willingly put their children through the possibiltiy of suffering such horrific, painful, and life-threatening diseases is just as cruel and careless with a child's life as the moronic parents.
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Looking for a simple solution to all life's problems? We are proud to present obstinate denial. Accept no substitute. Accept nothing.
--Night Vale Radio Twitter Account
Posts: 10281 | From: Beervana | Registered: Dec 2003
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Imaginary Friend
Real to you
# 186
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by PeteC:
I am a firm believer in vaccination. You don't want to be vaccinated? Fine. Just don't bore me with your rationalisations.
PeteC, with the greatest possible respect to you live-and-let-live attitude, I don't think it is fine for people not to get vaccinated on a hunch. I would say that we all have a social responsibility to keep herd immunity as fully intact as possible, and since there are some individuals who have legitimate medical reasons why they can't have the vaccines*, the onus on the rest of us to shoulder that responsibility. So, I don't want to hear the boring rationalizations either. I want to give them a simple choice: take the vaccine, or be relocated to a quarantined compound.
* like egg white allergy in the case of the flu vaccine, for example.
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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough
Posts: 9455 | From: Left a bit... Right a bit... | Registered: May 2001
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Presbyopic
Shipmate
# 10596
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
quote:
Originally posted by PeteC:
I am a firm believer in vaccination. You don't want to be vaccinated? Fine. Just don't bore me with your rationalisations.
PeteC, with the greatest possible respect to you live-and-let-live attitude, I don't think it is fine for people not to get vaccinated on a hunch. I would say that we all have a social responsibility to keep herd immunity as fully intact as possible, and since there are some individuals who have legitimate medical reasons why they can't have the vaccines*, the onus on the rest of us to shoulder that responsibility. So, I don't want to hear the boring rationalizations either. I want to give them a simple choice: take the vaccine, or be relocated to a quarantined compound.
* like egg white allergy in the case of the flu vaccine, for example.
Well I might not go as far as a quarantined compound but I would suggest boning up on your math and science so you can home school your kids. They are the innocents, but nevertheless they are a risk to other children (the rest of the herd if you will). Certainly keeping them at home would keep them safer than say, creating schools for the non-immunized. That would be a death sentence.
Posts: 699 | From: USA | Registered: Oct 2005
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comet
Snowball in Hell
# 10353
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Earwig:
Or breaking the 10Cs in the Styx stupid?
Keep Styx issues in the Styx, Earwig.
comet
Hellhost
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Evil Dragon Lady, Breaker of Men's Constitutions
"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.” -Calvin
Posts: 17024 | From: halfway between Seduction and Peril | Registered: Sep 2005
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
Just got another jab for whooping cough, tetanus and flu (seasonal). I WISH I could have gotten the swine flu jab but it isn't available here yet. Which is why I'm down with the bloody swine flu this week. AND going absolutely bonkers with boredom here, since being a halfway responsible idiot, I'm not going to go out and spread my germs to an unvaccinated population. (I'm going to be REALLY annoying on Ship this week.)
My family look like pincushions, we go for every vaccination available to us (pneumonia, etc.). Why the hell would I risk putting my own family through anything so easily preventable? Let alone passing it to somebody else.
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
(I'm going to be REALLY annoying on Ship this week.)
As opposed to?
![[Two face]](graemlins/scot_twoface.gif)
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
Just noticed crosspost. We have a local school for the non-immunized (I think they're JWs). Every couple years or so they have a massive outbreak of something horrid like whooping cough or measles. Usually a few wind up hospitalized, and then it spreads into the community.
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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