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» Ship of Fools   » Community discussion   » Hell   » I Will Not Obey (Page 2)

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Source: (consider it) Thread: I Will Not Obey
Mili

Shipmate
# 3254

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No I didn't know your politics, Deano, because you generally don't discuss them reasonably like that. I just assumed your were further to the right due to you assuming anyone to the left of you on the political spectrum was a socialist (who should be mocked) and also your prejudiced stereotypes of Muslims.

Not all Muslims believe the same thing. Some are even openly gay in safe countries like Australia. And certainly I would hope I could trust any of the Muslims I know to report it if I or another woman was raped by a fellow Muslim. However given the attitude of some of my male Christian friends in relation to Trump's comments about sexual assault I don't know if I can totally trust any individual to take sexual assault seriously.

I'm sure like me, lots of other shipmates have Muslim friends, colleagues, students etc. and take offense when you pedal negative stereotypes about Muslims and Islam. Germans during WW2 cannot be compared to the millions of Muslims worldwide.

Posts: 1002 | From: Melbourne, Australia | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
deano
princess
# 12063

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quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
You're a moderate, centre-right Conservative who spits in people's drinks when they're not looking [/QB]

For those who are new to this age-old discussion, I did manage to spit in one Arthur Scargill's pint pot when as a student I worked behind a bar in 1984 during the miner's strike and he came into our Miner's Welfare club for a meeting.

So given that it was Scargill - the man who wanted to use the miners to bring down a democratically elected government (again with the voting thing) - it was a perfectly reasonable thing to do. At least I didn't indulge in a bit of skiffing. Not for want of trying but the opportunity never arose.

Anyway, that's my claim to fame. One naturally tries to hide one's light under one's bushel, so as not to come off as a braggart of course, but there are times when a man has to stand up and say, with pride, "I gozzed in Arthur Scargill's pint pot".

Just for clarity, I have never done it to anyone else. It isn't a hobby or anything. But opportunities don't come that way very often so one must grab them with both hands.

--------------------
"The moral high ground is slowly being bombed to oblivion. " - Supermatelot

Posts: 2118 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: Nov 2006  |  IP: Logged
Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748

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Your claim to fame is that you were a coward then, and you're a coward now.

That's not much to base a life around, is it?

And I suspect that when they come for the nice Mr and Mrs Mohammed down the road, you'll sit on your thumbs with a little tight smile, and like the little coward you are, do nothing.

--------------------
Get your arse to Mars

Posts: 8700 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
deano
princess
# 12063

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quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
Your claim to fame is that you were a coward then, and you're a coward now.

That's not much to base a life around, is it?

And I suspect that when they come for the nice Mr and Mrs Mohammed down the road, you'll sit on your thumbs with a little tight smile, and like the little coward you are, do nothing.

Quite possibly. With today's election result we are more likely to see if your predictions will come true won't we.

But as I am on record here of wanting "them", it's unlikely that I'll do anything other than watch them - gently but firmly - guide Mr and Mrs Mohammed towards the departure gate. We ought to see if they want a nice cup of tea or something though. I promise not to spit in it. Unless of course they want to bring down an elected government using undemocratic means. Then I'll see if I can hoik up a green 'un.

But the bitterness in your post Doc is - and I'm going out on a limb here - more venomous than usual because of President Trump (get used to that folks) winning the election. It is borne of frustration that once more your view of the world is shown to be out of step with the majority.

But I can be magnanimous in victory and excuse you.

President Trump won a free and fair election, the Conservative Party won a free and fair election and the British people voted to leave the EU in a free and fair election. I wonder if the flaw lies in your arguments, and that your policies are seen as unwanted and unworkable.

Maybe you ought to consider the very real possibility that your political position is, quite simply, wrong.

--------------------
"The moral high ground is slowly being bombed to oblivion. " - Supermatelot

Posts: 2118 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: Nov 2006  |  IP: Logged
SusanDoris

Incurable Optimist
# 12618

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quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
I guess that Trump now has a couple of months to produce some policies before he gets sworn in.

When he does this (excuse me while I shudder yet again at the thought), he will say, 'so help me god' or similar? This sounds very much like hypocrisy to me, speaking not as an atheist, but as one who respects those who, like members here, are sincere in their beliefs.

--------------------
I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.

Posts: 2917 | From: UK | Registered: May 2007  |  IP: Logged
Mili

Shipmate
# 3254

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Where are these planes going too? Particularly for British born Muslims. And you wonder why people are comparing your views to Nazi actions.
Posts: 1002 | From: Melbourne, Australia | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

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quote:
Originally posted by deano:
the British people voted to leave the EU in a free and fair election.

Are you sure about that? In the last election we all had a chance to vote in, the only party who had a manifesto commitment to leave the EU managed to get one MP. Hardly an election result that endorses leaving the EU.

--------------------
Don't Brexit if you haven't a scooby how to fix it.

Posts: 31966 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Marvin the Martian

Interplanetary
# 4360

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quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
quote:
Originally posted by deano:
the British people voted to leave the EU in a free and fair election.

Are you sure about that? In the last election we all had a chance to vote in, the only party who had a manifesto commitment to leave the EU managed to get one MP. Hardly an election result that endorses leaving the EU.
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the referendum.

--------------------
Hail Gallaxhar

Posts: 29842 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330

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One stupid outcome of the way US Presidential Elections are run is that Clinton won the popular vote but lost the Electoral College.

--------------------
overheard on a Welsh bus-stop: Jesus don't care about you, he's only interested in your soul

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Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

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quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
One stupid outcome of the way US Presidential Elections are run is that Clinton won the popular vote but lost the Electoral College.

No more stupid than the UK system where a party can form a government without getting the largest share of the popular vote. Or, where the PM can change mid term on the votes of a small number of party members.

--------------------
Don't Brexit if you haven't a scooby how to fix it.

Posts: 31966 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

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quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
quote:
Originally posted by deano:
the British people voted to leave the EU in a free and fair election.

Are you sure about that? In the last election we all had a chance to vote in, the only party who had a manifesto commitment to leave the EU managed to get one MP. Hardly an election result that endorses leaving the EU.
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the referendum.
Sure, what he's whittering on about. Not what he said. I got a lot of stick for saying a referendum is similar to an election, and therefore common election practice such as having a manifesto* should have applied, without going as far as saying a referendum is an election.

* though, noting that Trump has just gone into an election without bothering about such things as producing a manifesto of practical, worked through policies ...

--------------------
Don't Brexit if you haven't a scooby how to fix it.

Posts: 31966 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713

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quote:
Originally posted by deano:


President Trump won a free and fair election, the Conservative Party won a free and fair election and the British people voted to leave the EU in a free and fair election. I wonder if the flaw lies in your arguments, and that your policies are seen as unwanted and unworkable.


What is fair about elections that are won by lies and once won, by policies that contradict a manifesto? (I'll let the Leave EU campaign off the latter, as it didn't have one, just a whingefest).

--------------------
"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

Posts: 23895 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76

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quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
One stupid outcome of the way US Presidential Elections are run is that Clinton won the popular vote but lost the Electoral College.

No more stupid than the UK system where a party can form a government without getting the largest share of the popular vote. Or, where the PM can change mid term on the votes of a small number of party members.
But not any less stupid, either.

--------------------
Might as well ask the bloody cat.

Posts: 17448 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

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True.

No one has a monopoly on excess stupidity.

--------------------
Don't Brexit if you haven't a scooby how to fix it.

Posts: 31966 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748

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quote:
Originally posted by deano:
Maybe you ought to consider the very real possibility that your political position is, quite simply, wrong.

You really are a smarmy little shit, aren't you?

Yes, I consider that my political position - treating people as I'd like to be treated, making sure that the sick and disabled are looked after with dignity, that work actually pays, that there's investment in infrastructure and science and art, that everyone pays a proportion of their income to fund the work of government, that people are free to express their opinions and live their lives free of government intrusion and surveillance, that access to the law shouldn't be on the basis of affordability, that education and training enriches us all, and that shovelling more wealth at the plutocracy isn't the best way of having a fair and just society - may be wrong. But I'm not honestly seeing too many flaws in it.

I could, of course, simply go all out for the "I'm all right, Jack" approach, which apparently sufficient of my fellows adopt to elect a Tory government, or an inchoate howl of rage at the "metropolitan elite" (which I'm part of by merely possessing both compassion and an education) which gave us Brexit. But I'd wear neither particularly well.

Evil has triumphed, but I'm not ready to join the Dark Side just yet.

--------------------
Get your arse to Mars

Posts: 8700 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
deano
princess
# 12063

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quote:
Originally posted by Mili:
Where are these planes going too? Particularly for British born Muslims. And you wonder why people are comparing your views to Nazi actions.

It would be a fair comparison if I started talking about "special showers" and "Arbeit macht frei". But I'm not and neither is President Trump.

The first step will be to stop muslims coming into the country in the first place. Short visits (3 months or so) on a tourist visa will still be allowed, as will diplomatic personnel.

The second step will be to offer a voluntary scheme asking if people of muslim heritage want to go to another country. We will help them with administrative issues and a cash incentive (the policies are controversial so let's make it generous to muslims who want to leave and costly to the UK taxpayer).

Eventually of course the applicants will stop volunteering. So now in step 3 we go looking...

We tell Mr and Mrs Muhammed that we would like them to go and they will still receive the gratuity but not quite as generous as the voluntary ones got. If they then choose to leave then the planes will go to wherever Mr and Mrs Muhammed want! If they have strong family ties in a particular islamic country then great. No problem.

If they don't, well step 4 will begin and we look into their background and get the Foreign Office to make the call on their behalf. Free flights only at this stage, no gratuity beyond a nominal amount for say a month in a hotel until they get sorted locally.

I suspect that most will accept the situation and make the best decision for themselves and their families after the first few step 4'ers.

It doesn't have to be nasty. Of course it isn't going to be a policy that everyone can get behind, but it can be a policy that is workable and implemented with as much generosity as possible.

There can be appeals processes and built-in exceptions for those in medical treatments and so on of course.

But of course this is a wish-list. None of it will happen except possibly step one, which President Trump has used as a campaign promise.

It might happen. If it does and is successful then there is no reason the UK can't follow suit.

--------------------
"The moral high ground is slowly being bombed to oblivion. " - Supermatelot

Posts: 2118 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: Nov 2006  |  IP: Logged
deano
princess
# 12063

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quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
quote:
Originally posted by deano:
Maybe you ought to consider the very real possibility that your political position is, quite simply, wrong.

You really are a smarmy little shit, aren't you?

Yes, I consider that my political position - treating people as I'd like to be treated, making sure that the sick and disabled are looked after with dignity, that work actually pays, that there's investment in infrastructure and science and art, that everyone pays a proportion of their income to fund the work of government, that people are free to express their opinions and live their lives free of government intrusion and surveillance, that access to the law shouldn't be on the basis of affordability, that education and training enriches us all, and that shovelling more wealth at the plutocracy isn't the best way of having a fair and just society - may be wrong. But I'm not honestly seeing too many flaws in it.

I could, of course, simply go all out for the "I'm all right, Jack" approach, which apparently sufficient of my fellows adopt to elect a Tory government, or an inchoate howl of rage at the "metropolitan elite" (which I'm part of by merely possessing both compassion and an education) which gave us Brexit. But I'd wear neither particularly well.

Evil has triumphed, but I'm not ready to join the Dark Side just yet.

The problem is Doc is that it sounds expensive. I'd rather keep my money in my pocket if it's alright with you.

Not saying your wrong of course, but I'm not looking to pay that much. You haven't got any used political dogma's you can show me have you? Nothing flashy, just a cheap, reliable little ideology to nip the wife to the shops in?

Only down the road at Mrs May's Political Process Showroom they've got a smart looking little ideology that's priced about right. Okay it's not a Rolls-Royce but it'll manage.

--------------------
"The moral high ground is slowly being bombed to oblivion. " - Supermatelot

Posts: 2118 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: Nov 2006  |  IP: Logged
Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748

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deano: no depth knowingly left unplumbed.

--------------------
Get your arse to Mars

Posts: 8700 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
mark_in_manchester

not waving, but...
# 15978

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When America isn't great again in a year or two, the Fuhrer is going to need scapegoats. Thanks, Deano, for illustrating how this is going to work.

--------------------
"We are punished by our sins, not for them" - Elbert Hubbard
(so good, I wanted to see it after my posts and not only after those of shipmate JBohn from whom I stole it)

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Callan
Shipmate
# 525

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quote:
Originally posted by deano:
quote:
Originally posted by Mili:
Where are these planes going too? Particularly for British born Muslims. And you wonder why people are comparing your views to Nazi actions.

It would be a fair comparison if I started talking about "special showers" and "Arbeit macht frei". But I'm not and neither is President Trump.

The first step will be to stop muslims coming into the country in the first place. Short visits (3 months or so) on a tourist visa will still be allowed, as will diplomatic personnel.

The second step will be to offer a voluntary scheme asking if people of muslim heritage want to go to another country. We will help them with administrative issues and a cash incentive (the policies are controversial so let's make it generous to muslims who want to leave and costly to the UK taxpayer).

Eventually of course the applicants will stop volunteering. So now in step 3 we go looking...

We tell Mr and Mrs Muhammed that we would like them to go and they will still receive the gratuity but not quite as generous as the voluntary ones got. If they then choose to leave then the planes will go to wherever Mr and Mrs Muhammed want! If they have strong family ties in a particular islamic country then great. No problem.

If they don't, well step 4 will begin and we look into their background and get the Foreign Office to make the call on their behalf. Free flights only at this stage, no gratuity beyond a nominal amount for say a month in a hotel until they get sorted locally.

I suspect that most will accept the situation and make the best decision for themselves and their families after the first few step 4'ers.

It doesn't have to be nasty. Of course it isn't going to be a policy that everyone can get behind, but it can be a policy that is workable and implemented with as much generosity as possible.

There can be appeals processes and built-in exceptions for those in medical treatments and so on of course.

But of course this is a wish-list. None of it will happen except possibly step one, which President Trump has used as a campaign promise.

It might happen. If it does and is successful then there is no reason the UK can't follow suit.

It never starts with 'special showers' and 'arbeit macht frei'. It starts with people wanting to remove the contaminating element from our midst and moves on from there. Just like you.

--------------------
How easy it would be to live in England, if only one did not love her. - G.K. Chesterton

Posts: 9677 | From: Citizen of the World | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76

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You don't really need to put a reasoned argument against that, do you?

I'm sure everyone else now sees Deano exposed as what he is. For Deano himself, given that he's nearly as hard of thinking as he is of caring, try putting the word "Jew" in where you've currently got "Muslim". It works really, really, well.

Still, it's somewhat gratifying to have it confirmed that one's most vociferous political opponents are complete knobs.

--------------------
Might as well ask the bloody cat.

Posts: 17448 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894

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One problem with your scheme, deano. One very big, unavoidable problem:

The absolute, supreme, you-can't-contradict it basic law of the United States of America, which every officer from President to local dogcatcher has to swear to protect, defend, and uphold, says you can't do that.

So either it doesn't happen, can't be done, or the thing that really, truly, and literally defines what America is...isn't.

And, what terrifies so many of us, is that we've been hearing un-Constitutional schemes like that, hearing plans to violate our nation's fundamental charter and record of the social contract to which we abide, and, frankly, there's reason to believe people mean it.

[ 09. November 2016, 12:43: Message edited by: Ariston ]

--------------------
“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.

Posts: 6824 | From: The People's Republic of Balcones | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged
Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

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deano crawls out from under a rock, and demonstrates that he's indistinguishable from the slime that was also there. Far too odious to bother responding to.

--------------------
Don't Brexit if you haven't a scooby how to fix it.

Posts: 31966 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
no prophet's flag is set so...

Proceed to see sea
# 15560

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So does Dolfie give the matches and gasoline to a Moselem or Hispanic?

--------------------
Maybe I should stop to consider that I'm not worthy of an epiphany and just take what life has to offer
(formerly was just "no prophet") \_(ツ)_/

Posts: 10837 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010  |  IP: Logged
romanlion
editorial comment
# 10325

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Illary is done.

Barry is leaving, his legacy and party in tatters.

It's a great day in the USA!

--------------------
"You can't get rich in politics unless you're a crook" - Harry S. Truman

Posts: 1390 | From: White Rose City | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740

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As Callan said, it doesn't start with special showers. It starts with helpful schemes to enable people to move elsewhere, and then moves on. Killing them comes later.

However, I don't see Trump as a fascist, but there are warning signs.

I think fascism usually requires economic collapse to really get going, but you never know, Trump might trigger that.

--------------------
no path

Posts: 9519 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011  |  IP: Logged
romanlion
editorial comment
# 10325

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quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
As Callan said, it doesn't start with special showers. It starts with helpful schemes to enable people to move elsewhere, and then moves on. Killing them comes later.

However, I don't see Trump as a fascist, but there are warning signs.

I think fascism usually requires economic collapse to really get going, but you never know, Trump might trigger that.

More likely his predecessor's monetary policy and obscene accumulation of debt already has...

--------------------
"You can't get rich in politics unless you're a crook" - Harry S. Truman

Posts: 1390 | From: White Rose City | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
la vie en rouge
Parisienne
# 10688

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ISTM that all the “why Clinton lost” commentaries are avoiding stating the most blindingly obvious fact of all.

She lost because she’s a woman.

Faced with a choice between a vicious, ignorant, xenophobic, tax-avoiding, misogynistic, sociopathic thug and the monstrous regiment of a woman, the land of the free went for the personality disorder.

As a ladyperson myself, I'm feeling a bit… upset about that.

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Rent my holiday home in the South of France

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Teekeey Misha
Shipmate
# 18604

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quote:
Originally posted by deano:
It doesn't have to be nasty.

It does have to be nasty, because it is nasty. Deporting people because they belong to the religion or race you have decided to make your scapegoat cannot be anything other than nasty.

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Misha
Don't assume I don't care; sometimes I just can't be bothered to put you right.

Posts: 296 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2016  |  IP: Logged
quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740

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quote:
Originally posted by Teekeey Misha:
quote:
Originally posted by deano:
It doesn't have to be nasty.

It does have to be nasty, because it is nasty. Deporting people because they belong to the religion or race you have decided to make your scapegoat cannot be anything other than nasty.
Neo-Nazism with a sugar coating.

--------------------
no path

Posts: 9519 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011  |  IP: Logged
Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76

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quote:
Originally posted by Teekeey Misha:
quote:
Originally posted by deano:
It doesn't have to be nasty.

It does have to be nasty, because it is nasty. Deporting people because they belong to the religion or race you have decided to make your scapegoat cannot be anything other than nasty.
Don't you see? These people should be grateful because the wonderful magnanimous Deano isn't actually going to kill them.

--------------------
Might as well ask the bloody cat.

Posts: 17448 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740

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Not yet.

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no path

Posts: 9519 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011  |  IP: Logged
dyfrig
Blue Scarfed Menace
# 15

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I suspect most UK Muslim's answer to the offer of payment will be similar to that of Lenny Henry;s to Enoch Powell's offer to black people of a thousand pounds to go home - "That's great. I'm from Dudley. It's only down the road."

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"He was wrong in the long run, but then, who isn't?" - Tony Judt

Posts: 6916 | From: pob dydd Iau, am hanner dydd | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740

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Yes, my best friend, who was a Muslim, was from Watford. Fuck me, you mean he might get a travelcard all the way home?

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no path

Posts: 9519 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011  |  IP: Logged
Amanda B. Reckondwythe

Dressed for Church
# 5521

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quote:
Originally posted by romanlion:
quote:
Originally posted by Sipech:
quote:
Originally posted by romanlion:
Fuck all you Illary voters.

Fuck you all very much.

Eat shit and die.

Go dip your scrotum in battery acid you illiterate fuckweasel.
You lose, bitch...

Fuck off and draw your last, if you care about the rest of us...

You know, romanlion, I feel very, very sorry for you. Something obviously happened in your pathetic life to turn you into the bitter, hateful person that you are. Personally, I do not feel safe promenading on the same decks of the Ship on which you lurk and prowl. I think I'll just confine myself to my stateroom until some crew member grabs you and throws you overboard, where the sharks will deal with you as you deserve. Don't bother to reply -- I'm going to set your name in the directory to Ignore.

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"We're not in Wonderland anymore, Alice." – Charles Manson

Posts: 10222 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768

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After listening through Vaughan Williams, the only other vinyl in my office was "The War of the Worlds" - a mistake. I've just reached the bit where the vicar claims the Martians have been in us all along. But I know this ends well!
Posts: 5758 | Registered: May 2009  |  IP: Logged
Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748

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quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
quote:
Originally posted by Teekeey Misha:
quote:
Originally posted by deano:
It doesn't have to be nasty.

It does have to be nasty, because it is nasty. Deporting people because they belong to the religion or race you have decided to make your scapegoat cannot be anything other than nasty.
Neo-Nazism with a sugar coating.
Nope. It's pretty much straight-down-the-line plain old Nazism.

So much for the "centre-right conservative" he wants us to think he is.

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Get your arse to Mars

Posts: 8700 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
RuthW

liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13

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quote:
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:


She lost because she’s a woman.


Yes, and every man who thinks he's a moderate or on the left should acknowledge this, or admit he's to some degree really a reactionary.
Posts: 24368 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768

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I've been trying to find a quote somewhere else, on another subject (domestic violence) about the attitude of certain 'Christian' groups to women faced with this situation.

The women are, apparently, supposed to continue to submit to abusive husbands and to "trust that God would honor her action by either stopping the abuse or giving her the strength to endure it".

I have a horrible feeling that we are going to have to pray for endurance, because that is all that is on offer. Especially for our friends over the pond.

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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430

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Amen to that - and may God remove the curse from America a.s.a.p.

IJ

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The future is another country - they might do things differently there...

Posts: 8716 | From: With The Glums At The Bus Stop | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
Marvin the Martian

Interplanetary
# 4360

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quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
quote:
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:


She lost because she’s a woman.


Yes, and every man who thinks he's a moderate or on the left should acknowledge this, or admit he's to some degree really a reactionary.
It was definitely part of the reason she lost for some of those who voted against her, but I don't agree that it's the only reason.

It's very easy to put defeats like these down to sexism, racism or just plain stupidity on the part of those who voted the other way. It means we can tell ourselves there isn't anything wrong with us, it's just that the bad guys won this round. But if we ignore the other economic and political issues that are at work here then they're just going to come back and bite us on the ass next time as well.

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Hail Gallaxhar

Posts: 29842 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061

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Of course there will be practical actions we can take. A friend of mine advises:
"On a personal level, stand by your friends who are black, Jewish, Muslim,atheists, Latino, Asian, female, gay, bi, or trans, and fight to protect them from bullying and persecution to any degree possible. You all know the old saying about "They came for the Jews, and I said nothing, because I wasn't a Jew, they came for the socialists, and I said nothing..." and so forth. Say something, do something. By legal action, by mass public protest, by force if necessary in individual cases. Don't let your neighbors and friends stand alone, support them in any way you can. In the extreme case (and I don't really think that it will actually come to this) that they actually try to make Muslims wear special identifying armbands, you wear one too, as they did in Denmark during WWII when the Nazis ordered that Jews should wear armbands to make them easily identifiable."

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

Posts: 5356 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014  |  IP: Logged
Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430

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Lord, have mercy....if it comes to that.

Meanwhile, given that Trump is 70-ish, is it wrong to want him to die a natural death? Very soon?

IJ

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The future is another country - they might do things differently there...

Posts: 8716 | From: With The Glums At The Bus Stop | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
Wesley J

Silly Shipmate
# 6075

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No.

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Be it as it may: Wesley J will stay. --- Euthanasia, that sounds good. An alpine neutral neighbourhood. Then back to Britain, all dressed in wood. Things were gonna get worse. (John Cooper Clarke)

Posts: 7225 | From: The Isles of Silly | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
la vie en rouge
Parisienne
# 10688

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Water-cooler discussion today: we are strongly hoping that Cheato Benito will end up impeached. Sooner rather than later.

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Rent my holiday home in the South of France

Posts: 3562 | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged
Pigwidgeon

Ship's Owl
# 10192

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quote:
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
Water-cooler discussion today: we are strongly hoping that Cheato Benito will end up impeached. Sooner rather than later.

That's been my assumption. But then we're stuck with Pence.

There's also a possibility that Trump will never make it to his Inauguration, since he has some trials coming up before then.

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Don't keep calm. Go change the world.

Posts: 9303 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
no prophet's flag is set so...

Proceed to see sea
# 15560

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quote:
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
ISTM that all the “why Clinton lost” commentaries are avoiding stating the most blindingly obvious fact of all.

She lost because she’s a woman.

Faced with a choice between a vicious, ignorant, xenophobic, tax-avoiding, misogynistic, sociopathic thug and the monstrous regiment of a woman, the land of the free went for the personality disorder.

As a ladyperson myself, I'm feeling a bit… upset about that.

With you. Many of us are really struggling to understand the world today. I really believed there would be a woman president. Instead there is someone who has assaulted women.

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Maybe I should stop to consider that I'm not worthy of an epiphany and just take what life has to offer
(formerly was just "no prophet") \_(ツ)_/

Posts: 10837 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010  |  IP: Logged
Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528

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quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
Ha ha. I was in a con-evo church on Sunday that quietly has a family of Azerbaijanian muslims living in its premises because they have nowhere else to go*. I have to admit to being jealous.

*church bring-and-share meals are fun: "we have to make sure the muslim kids stay away from anything not halal!"

This is sweet, and may we see more of this sort of thing--particularly in America, in spite of Trump. He may be a disheartening blast of doom, but there's plenty we can do under the radar to be decent human beings.

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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!

Posts: 19958 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528

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Is it possible to try a president-elect? I don't believe I've ever seen this addressed before.

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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!

Posts: 19958 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061

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She won the popular vote.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

Posts: 5356 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014  |  IP: Logged



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