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Source: (consider it) Thread: The 10 Commandments
Simon

Editor
# 1

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This thread is here for discussion and suggestions about our house rules, the 10 Commandments. Unlike the original 10 Commandments, our rules aren't chiselled in stone but are open for debate -- although please bear in mind that there are good reasons why we have the rules we do. They've been developed over the past couple of years by members of this community and reflect our experience in belonging to these boards.

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Jumble Sales of the Apocalypse

Posts: 3778 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged
Siegfried
Ship's ferret
# 29

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7 is problematic in my mind as there are quite serious differences between what is considered libelous/slanderous in the UK versus the US (or elsewhere). Maybe a clarification article could be linked to from it?

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Siegfried
Life is just a bowl of cherries!

Posts: 5591 | From: Tallahassee, FL USA | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
tomb
Shipmate
# 174

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In deciding if a thread it libellous, hosts generally go by UK standards. As I understand it, they are the most strict with the least restrictive burden of proof.
Posts: 5039 | From: Denver, Colorado | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Siegfried
Ship's ferret
# 29

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Right.. but my point is: What are the UK standards? Being in the US, I really have no idea.

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Siegfried
Life is just a bowl of cherries!

Posts: 5591 | From: Tallahassee, FL USA | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Nightlamp
Shipmate
# 266

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The UK standards have proberly changed due to the Human rights act but no body knows which way

I believe under English Common Law traditionally evidence must exist to support any statement made to avoid libel about a person or organisation.

This is slowly being eroded particularly when it comes to public bodies this is due to the influence of the European court of human rights. An organisation can be subject to crictisim in the press as long as reasonable efforts have been made to research the information.

As I understand it this area of the Law is in flux and is moving towards a 'freedom of expression' approach.

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I don't know what you are talking about so it couldn't have been that important- Nightlamp


Posts: 8442 | From: Midlands | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Old Hundredth
Shipmate
# 112

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It is worth bearing in mind that the British actor William Roache successfully sued for thousands of pounds (I think it was about 50K but I may have misremembered) for being described as 'boring' by the British press. What makes it particularly ironic is that it was actually the character that he plays (Ken Barlow in the soap Coronation Street who was described as boring rather than Roache himself. That's how tough the UK libel laws are.

Now if one of you kind souls will describe me as 'boring', I will have great pleasure in taking you to the cleaners...

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If I'm not in the Chapel, I'll be in the bar (Reno Sweeney, 'Anything Goes')


Posts: 976 | From: The land of the barm cake | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
babybear
Bear faced and cheeky with it
# 34

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Ah, but that only works if you are *not* boring. If you are boring, then it is a simple statement of truth.

bb


Posts: 13287 | From: Cottage of the 3 Bears (and The Gremlin) | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Arrietty

Ship's borrower
# 45

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The onus is on the alleged libeller to prove that what they said is true. And how do you prove someone is boring?

Libel relates to the reputation. Anything that damages my reputation is libellous unless you can prove it is true. The more I stand to lose by my reputation being damaged, the more serious the libel is taken to be. However you do need a lot of dosh to sue and it has gone spectacularly wrong in some cases where the person who has sued for libel has lost the case and ended up losing all their money.

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i-church

Online Mission and Ministry


Posts: 6634 | From: Coventry, UK | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
rewboss
Shipmate
# 566

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Well, when we're talking about libel etc, we're talking about civil law, not criminal law. Which means, in part, that which country's laws apply depends on which courts the plaintiff is suing through. Whether the onus is on the plaintiff to prove that the allegations are true or not depends varies from country to country. And whether a case can even be brought also depends.

British courts, for example, have almost no jurisdiction over the Internet. Australian anti-defamatory laws, on the other hand, are so strict that ISPs are required by law to block access to sites that contravene those laws.

In all cases, though, Ship of Fools can be held responsible for what information is stored on their site, including anything that is posted to this board. An individual posting something defamatory may not be putting himself at risk, but the whole SoF website.

quote:
I believe under English Common Law traditionally evidence must exist to support any statement made to avoid libel about a person or organisation.
Be careful not to misinterpret this. For example, you are not allowed to suggest that an individual is responsible for a crime until that individual has been convicted of that crime. You are not allowed to report that Mr X has been arrested for the murder of Mrs Y, but that Mr X has been detained in connection with the death of Mrs Y, even if Mr X was discovered at the scene of the crime with blood dripping from his hands.

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The latest from the world of rewboss

Posts: 1334 | From: Lower Franconia, Germany | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76

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Not to forget the good old 'helping police with their enquiries'

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Might as well ask the bloody cat.

Posts: 17698 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Erin
Meaner than Godzilla
# 2

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All right, that's enough. This thread is meant to discuss the 10Cs when we encounter difficulties or confusion in their interpretation, NOT for flirting. Take it to Heaven or All Saints. I will be deleting all posts from this thread, except the OP, within 24 hours.

No more.

Erin

Addendum: The offending posts have been deleted, AFTER consulting with my co-host here, who agreed with me.

[ 21 August 2001: Message edited by: Erin ]

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Commandment number one: shut the hell up.


Posts: 17140 | From: 330 miles north of paradise | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged
Peregrinner
Shipmate
# 409

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Erin,

To come up to your serious level for a moment or two, I can see the validity of having a thread to discuss the 10 commandments but not one that sits at the bottom of the pile with no responses as this one did for so long.

If you feel this strongly, as you obviously do, that this subject should be a permanent thread, and not something that can be discussed when an individual has a personal objection or a new idea, then I would prefer that you create a new thread every (e.g. 6 months) which will be at the top of the list for people to view and which contains the actual rules themselves (which I included here) so that people do not have to search for them before being able to comment.

My original argument was not with the relevance of the subject but with its practical application. Everybody was ignoring a very dull thread at the bottom of the pile.

I do respect your power, but would ask you to consult with other administrators and hosts before simply butchering this thread and leaving it dormant again.

There is a reason for laws, but Christians should have no need of them because they should be moving in the spirit anyway.

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I have always thought...


Posts: 271 | From: England | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Erin
Meaner than Godzilla
# 2

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Peregrinner...

Your comments have been noted, however, not only am I an administrator, but I am also one of the hosts of this board (Simon being the other one), so it pretty much IS up to me what I do with threads here.

I am perfectly content to let this thread lie dormant at the bottom of the board for however long it needs to. I don't know if you were on the paid boards or not, but the 10Cs thread oftentimes went months without a post. If you were to read the 10 Commandments, you will see at the bottom of the page is a link to this thread. We will NOT be recoding html every six months just to resurrect a thread that needs no resurrecting unless there is a question or a problem.

This board is about Ship stuff, including questions about the rules and regulations. I am going to start being a bit stricter here with personal chat. There are two other boards here where (the general) you can do that, and I don't have time to monitor this sort of thing. That's why I host the Styx.

Erin

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Commandment number one: shut the hell up.


Posts: 17140 | From: 330 miles north of paradise | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged
Viola
Administrator
# 20

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Hmmm,

At the risk of looking like a creep here, Erin's been here a lot longer, and put in a lot more thought onto these boards than most of the rest of us, so probably knows what works, she's in charge of this board, and she does lots of consultation with other hosts and admins.

It would be lovely if we all moved in the spirit and didn't need laws, but even I've been around long enough to know that this place reflects the real world, where people are occasionally either stupid, thoughtless or nasty. Even Christians!

Right - I'll stop moralising and get back to my fluffy, entertaining heaven board.

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"If ye love me, keep my commandments" John 14:15

"Commandment number one: shut the hell up." Erin Etheredge 1971-2010


Posts: 4344 | From: West of England | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Viola
Administrator
# 20

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Oh - and meant to say...

You don't have to search very hard to find the 10Cs. There's a gert big link to them as a constant presence on the left hand side of my screen.

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"If ye love me, keep my commandments" John 14:15

"Commandment number one: shut the hell up." Erin Etheredge 1971-2010


Posts: 4344 | From: West of England | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Reepicheep
BANNED
# 60

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I've been thinking about the 10Cs, and wondering about adding something in somewhere about there being a real person on the other side of the computer monitor, with real feelings.
The 10Cs convey this, but don't actually sum it up succinctly.

Love
Angel


Posts: 2199 | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Late Quartet

Irredeemably speciesist?
# 1207

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Well, Erin suggested my query about the 10 commandments and her calling Jesse Jackson

quote:
vile, parasitic and disgusting long before this latest round of media hogdom.
on the Hell thread about terrorism, needed to be discussed in the Styx.

(Hope you're happy with me adding on to this thread Erin ... or would it be better to start a new one?)

To follow on from Angel's comment above about

quote:
there being a real person on the other side of the computer monitor
. I guess I feel that quite keenly even about public figures.

I don't understand that we have a commandment about attacking an issue not the person for shipmates, but that rule does not apply to people beyond the ship.

There have been a number of such instances I've spotted, and I guess I find that level of attack lacks the 'non-violent' spirit I sense the ship attempts to engender in exchanges within the community.

In our quest for peace and justice, surely its better not to go for anyone's jugular? That's my argument anyhow

(and I'm sure you older hands are smiling wryly at me taking on the wisdom and might of Erin ... more fool me maybe ... but I really want a better answer to this matter of double standards than I've got so far).

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Late Quartet is cycling closer to Route 6 than Route 66 these days.


Posts: 897 | From: Sheffield | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Erin
Meaner than Godzilla
# 2

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We don't have the no personal attacks on Shipmates rule because we want a "non-violent" exchange. We have the no personal attacks on Shipmates rule because the Ship separates itself into factions and then it takes us months to rebuild what's been damaged. It's primarily a protective measure for the community, rather than any embodiment of ideals.

There's a part of me that would like to discontinue it altogether, because I think that there are times when "shut up, dumbass" is the only logical response. However, we have had to clean up that mess before, so I know that pragmatically we need this rule in place.

And thankfully it didn't stop me from ranting and raving up a storm when I left my ex. And all the bleeding heart pinko commie liberals here would explode if they couldn't trash Bush 43, Reagan or Thatcher.

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Commandment number one: shut the hell up.


Posts: 17140 | From: 330 miles north of paradise | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged
Late Quartet

Irredeemably speciesist?
# 1207

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quote:
Originally posted by Erin:
We don't have the no personal attacks on Shipmates rule because we want a "non-violent" exchange.

The effect is that the exchanges become non-violent though, surely?

We have the no personal attacks on Shipmates rule because the Ship separates itself into factions and then it takes us months to rebuild what's been damaged. It's primarily a protective measure for the community, rather than any embodiment of ideals.

I'm not entirely sure how to separate in my own mind 'a protective measure for the community' from an 'embodiment of ideals'. I would assume it was both/and.

There's a part of me that would like to discontinue it altogether, because I think that there are times when "shut up, dumbass" is the only logical response. However, we have had to clean up that mess before, so I know that pragmatically we need this rule in place.

Yep, and pragmatic idealism is the very best sort IMHO.

And thankfully it didn't stop me from ranting and raving up a storm when I left my ex.
Point taken.

And all the bleeding heart pinko commie liberals here would explode if they couldn't trash Bush 43, Reagan or Thatcher.

Hey, lead me to some of these 'bleeding heart pinko commie liberals' I'm still trying to find them (or is that an impermissable question for the Styx? )

Shalom

late but never a quartet

[ubb tidied -- yes, I am that nice ]

[ 29 September 2001: Message edited by: Erin ]

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Late Quartet is cycling closer to Route 6 than Route 66 these days.


Posts: 897 | From: Sheffield | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Erin
Meaner than Godzilla
# 2

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What I'm getting at, I suppose, is that our motivation is to protect the community. We have some fringe benefits (only an occasional knock-down drag-out in Hell), but they are not the reasons in and of themselves.

Re: the liberals -- you can't swing a cat without hitting at least ten of 'em around here.

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Commandment number one: shut the hell up.


Posts: 17140 | From: 330 miles north of paradise | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged
Late Quartet

Irredeemably speciesist?
# 1207

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Right I'm gonna take 'cat swinging' and other matters of animal theology to Purgatory!

I still think to separate secondary benefits from primary intentions for the Ship is something of a misnoma (whatever misnoma means).

late but never a quartet

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Late Quartet is cycling closer to Route 6 than Route 66 these days.


Posts: 897 | From: Sheffield | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Edward Green
Review Editor
# 46

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quote:
Originally posted by Erin:

Re: the liberals -- you can't swing a cat without hitting at least ten of 'em around here.

Ouch.

Although I can't decide if I'm a Right wing or a Left wing liberal. <grin>

In general I am happy with the no personal attacks rule, but in my personal conduct use it beyond members of the ship.

I might say that I disagree with Bush on an issue, but to suggest that he is a "dumbass" or his Christian Faith is not genuine is to my mind contrary to the scriptural approach to those in positions of secular authourity. It's also not very nice.

I try to avoid personal abuse of anyone - living or dead.

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blog//twitter//
linkedin


Posts: 4893 | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Stephen
Shipmate
# 40

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Don't forget a Liberal in Australia is in fact a Conservative...
However the rule against ad hominem attacks is I think a good one and see no reason why it should be restricted to SOF
Ad hominem attacks are in fact impolite

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Best Wishes
Stephen

'Be still,then, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the nations and I will be exalted in the earth' Ps46 v10

Posts: 3940 | From: Alto C Clef Country | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Erin
Meaner than Godzilla
# 2

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We will leave it to each person to decide whether or not they wish to adhere to the rule when it comes to people outside the bounds of the Ship.

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Commandment number one: shut the hell up.

Posts: 17140 | From: 330 miles north of paradise | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged
Old Hundredth
Shipmate
# 112

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And let us not forget that personal attacks can lay us open to libel charges.

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If I'm not in the Chapel, I'll be in the bar (Reno Sweeney, 'Anything Goes')

Posts: 976 | From: The land of the barm cake | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Late Quartet

Irredeemably speciesist?
# 1207

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I thought for those of us who are still wrestling with issues surrounding issues / persons a new translation of that commandment would help courtesy of URL=http://www.webdez.net/alig/]Ali G[/URL].


Name-callin hand personal disses is not allowed, regardless hof da context. da same goes fer comment which stereotypes or attacks people on da basis hof their race, nationality, age, gender, religious belief or sexual preference. Please avoid unintelligent remarks such as "Americans irritate me 'coz..." or, "homosexuals is always saying..." Remarks like dis always start flame wars hand they is treated severely. All da above isas is opun fer reasoned debate, but extreme or insensitive attacks on da beliefs or lifestyle choices hof otha shipmates is not tolerated. Whun discussin a specific people group, please mentally substitute da name hof a shipmate fer da group in question before me Uncle Jamal post your message. dat is da rule da administrators hand hosts will use to determine whetha or not your post is a personal attack, so please do da same. [

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Late Quartet is cycling closer to Route 6 than Route 66 these days.


Posts: 897 | From: Sheffield | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Late Quartet

Irredeemably speciesist?
# 1207

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Apology from me for lack of respect to the hosts, in breach of the 6th commandment.

I have personally apologized to each of the hosts I have offended.

I had not intentionally set out to annoy or disrespect any of them.

However I realize now that that is what I achieved.

So Frin I'm sorry, and Siegfried I'm sorry too.

In both instances I had not seen boundaries which would have been glaringly obvious to those of you who know the Ship better than I.


Enough said.

Jem


Posts: 897 | From: Sheffield | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Erin
Meaner than Godzilla
# 2

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Bumping this to the top.

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Commandment number one: shut the hell up.

Posts: 17140 | From: 330 miles north of paradise | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged
Erin
Meaner than Godzilla
# 2

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Posted in the now-closed other thread...

quote:
Originally posted by FCB:
I'd like to offer what I hope is a helpful suggestion. Would it be possible to add something to the 10 C's about analogies that, as we say, create more heat than light. One thing that I've reflected on following the sex, lies etc. dust up is that what seems to some people a "common sense" matter does not seem to to others. This seems to me to be one of those cases. Indeed, in many circles asking "then explain to me how your position differs from X" is a perfectly legitimate arguing tactic. I can accept that making analogies between someone's position and that of a widely hated group is out of bounds for these boards. But it does not seem to me self-evidently so.

Particularly if hosts are going to tell people to apologize for do this, I would think that it could be spelled out a bit more explicitly in the 10 c's. I don't mean listing the hated groups you are not allowed to invoke (I could see a major row over whether Republicans are included or not), but some sort of general warning, maybe under the 3rd commandment.

I'd be interested in what people thing.

FCB


quote:
Originally posted by Cuttlefish:
I know there could be a risk of detailing the 10 Commandments so much that they become too wordy, and still not cover every eventuality. But even so I think FCB's suggestion is a good one. I think the 11 commandments just wouldn't be catchy enough, so which commandment would "do not compare the arguments of a shipmate with those of a generally despised group or individual such as racists, paedophiles or Hitler" fall under? I think it could slip into commandment 3: name calling etc. In effect it is a subtle form of name calling, even if the offender does not consciously mean it as such.


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Commandment number one: shut the hell up.

Posts: 17140 | From: 330 miles north of paradise | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged
FCB

Hillbilly Thomist
# 1495

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Sorry I didn't post on this thread originally. Since I already knew what a sock puppet was, I didn't read far enough in the 10 C's to see the link to this thread. That's what I get.

FCB

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Agent of the Inquisition since 1982.


Posts: 2928 | From: that city in "The Wire" | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
HoosierNan
Shipmate
# 91

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Commandment 3 reads, in part:
quote:
Name-calling and personal insults are not allowed, regardless of the context. The same goes for comment which stereotypes or attacks people on the basis of their race, nationality, age, gender, religious belief or sexual preference.

I am always reminded of the funniest line from the movie "A River Runs Through It." The Presbyterian minister is quoted as saying, "Methodists are Baptists who know how to read." Naturally, that sort of remark on this board would quite rightly get one reprimanded.

(My mother was raised Methodist and my in-laws were raised Baptist, so this is just a movie quote, not MY opinion.)


Posts: 795 | From: Indiana, USA | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Bonzo
Shipmate
# 2481

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This is a tentative post. Please don't anyone turn it into anything more than a request for clarification.

I'm concerned about rule 3.

I'm not sure what constitutes a personal attack. The problem that I have seen happening, twice now, since starting to read these boards is that personal attacks have been made by people in charge of the boards. I don't want to give examples or start name calling as I think this would cause more harm than good, but perhaps you could clarify what is, and what is not acceptable.

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Love wastefully


Posts: 1150 | From: Stockport | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Erin
Meaner than Godzilla
# 2

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What is not acceptable: name-calling. That's pretty much it.

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Commandment number one: shut the hell up.

Posts: 17140 | From: 330 miles north of paradise | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged
FCB

Hillbilly Thomist
# 1495

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Erin, your reply strikes be as a bit non-responsive. I think Bonzo was asking what constituted name-calling. For example, is calling someone a "troll" (as I have done on one occasion in the past) name calling?

FCB

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Agent of the Inquisition since 1982.


Posts: 2928 | From: that city in "The Wire" | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Erin
Meaner than Godzilla
# 2

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quote:
Originally posted by FCB:
Erin, your reply strikes be as a bit non-responsive. I think Bonzo was asking what constituted name-calling. For example, is calling someone a "troll" (as I have done on one occasion in the past) name calling?

FCB


Well, he may have meant what constitutes name-calling, but he asked what constitutes a personal attack. When someone asks me what time it is, I try to avoid telling them how to build a watch.

That said, the best thing, really, is to lurk if you're unsure about it. Get to know the tenor of the boards. It is impossible for me to sit here and identify when something is and is not acceptable. And what is acceptable on one board may not be on another. I can't answer this, I leave it to the judgment of the hosts and administrators (a judgment I trust very much).

Another rule of the board culture: if you violate the rules and guidelines of the board, you absolutely cannot appeal to them if someone dishes it right back to you. That argument will be ignored by hosts and administrators (except to maybe ridicule it).

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Commandment number one: shut the hell up.


Posts: 17140 | From: 330 miles north of paradise | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged
Nightlamp
Shipmate
# 266

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I guess this means use your common sense

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I don't know what you are talking about so it couldn't have been that important- Nightlamp

Posts: 8442 | From: Midlands | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Gareth
Shipmate
# 2494

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What is the point of the (Biblical) Ten Commandments?

Each one of them is obviously a prohibition or a burden, but the effect of each one is a liberation. Of course, you could post 23 messages on the semiotics of individual commands, but all you would be doing is missing the point.

So what is the point?

G

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"Making fun of born-again Christians is like hunting dairy cows with a high powered rifle and scope."
P. J. O'Rourke


Posts: 345 | From: Chaos | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
FCB

Hillbilly Thomist
# 1495

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quote:
Originally posted by Erin:
Well, he may have meant what constitutes name-calling, but he asked what constitutes a personal attack. When someone asks me what time it is, I try to avoid telling them how to build a watch.

Presumably he knew that a personal attack meant a verbal one (i.e. name-calling), since physical assault is difficult over the internet.

FCB

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Agent of the Inquisition since 1982.


Posts: 2928 | From: that city in "The Wire" | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Erin
Meaner than Godzilla
# 2

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I have an idea, FCB. Since I don't remember asking for an interpreter, why don't we let Bonzo (and others) speak for himself if he wants to. Okay?

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Commandment number one: shut the hell up.

Posts: 17140 | From: 330 miles north of paradise | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged
da_musicman
Shipmate
# 1018

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So What is different?

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The only difference between saints and sinners is that every saint has a past while every sinner has a future

Posts: 3202 | From: The Dreaming | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Inanna

Ship's redhead
# 538

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The change that struck me as the most obvious is in Commandment 3. I think it used to read something like "Name-calling and personal insults are not allowed". Now it's been softened to "only allowed in Hell". This will presumably deal with all the people complaining in Hell that so-and-so is breaking the commandments because they used a personal insult.

At least, I think that's been changed...

I'm also wondering whether "cop to it" in commandment 5 is understandable slang outside of the UK....

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All shall be well
And all shall be well
And all manner of things shall be well.

Posts: 1495 | From: Royal Oak, MI | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
starbelly
but you can call me Neil
# 25

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quote:
Originally posted by Inanna:

I'm also wondering whether "cop to it" in commandment 5 is understandable slang outside of the UK....

Is it understandable inside the UK?

Must be about copulation, seems a strange thing to ask us to do, but if you insist...

Neil

Posts: 6006 | From: High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Arrietty

Ship's borrower
# 45

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quote:
if you know you've stuffed it up, cop to it without excuse. We've all had to at some point.
Certainly sounds like some kind of sexual practice. Though it's a bit sweeping to assume we've ALL done it.

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i-church

Online Mission and Ministry

Posts: 6634 | From: Coventry, UK | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Simon

Editor
# 1

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Commandments ought to be short and to the point, so ours have been edited down to get at the essential point in each case. Major changes are...

No.1: In the 1662 version, this began: "This is a community of intelligent, passionate, adult Christians..." This has been dropped as we don't want to imply that people who are not Christians aren't welcome. It also sounded naff.

No.3: Inanna's right. "Name-calling and personal insults are only allowed in Hell" (current version) is more accurate than "Name-calling and personal insults are not allowed" (old version). The third commandment was very wordy, and we've cut it down to 25 percent of its original size. It was originally written when we were in the throes of anti-American and anti-homosexual postings, hence the detail, which is no longer needed.

No.5: This is one we've completely changed. The old version had "If you get it wrong, own up to it -- If you get it wrong, please apologise. Sincere apologies have always been warmly received on these boards." The new says, "Don't easily offend, don't be easily offended -- Disagreement is normal here. Try not to nurse hurt feelings, and, conversely, if you know you've stuffed it up, cop to it without excuse. We've all had to at some point." We wanted to get away from the childish, "say sorry, play nicely" feel and instead have something which puts the onus on both sides in a dispute.

The rest of the changes are for the sake of brevity. The complete text of the old 10cs can be found by clicking here.

[ 26. July 2006, 11:05: Message edited by: Simon ]

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Jumble Sales of the Apocalypse

Posts: 3778 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged
Arrietty

Ship's borrower
# 45

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quote:
Originally posted by Simon:
We wanted to get away from the childish, "say sorry, play nicely" feel and instead have something which puts the onus on both sides in a dispute.

All joking aside, I applaud the change of emphasis and think it reflects what now generally happens anyway.

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i-church

Online Mission and Ministry

Posts: 6634 | From: Coventry, UK | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Paige
Shipmate
# 2261

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I have a question about Commandment 7. What constitutes a breach of copyright?

I'm asking because I found a really great passage in a Peter Gomes book that I would like to put in the "Why Do Liberals Go to Church?" thread in Purgatory, but I don't want to do anything that isn't cricket.

Thanks!
Paige

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Sister Jackhammer of Quiet Reflection

Posts: 886 | From: Sweet Tea Land, USA | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
Tom Day
Ship's revolutionary
# 3630

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quote:
Originally posted by paigeb:
but I don't want to do anything that isn't cricket.

Unlike the England cricket team who excell in doing things that aren't exactly cricket

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My allotment blog

Posts: 6473 | From: My Sofa | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
RuthW

liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13

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Paige: how long is the passage? Because you can quote a paragraph or two (or three) out of an entire book and be well within the law.
Posts: 24428 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Simon

Editor
# 1

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Hi paigeb

Posting a reasonably short quote from a book should be OK here, as in my understanding it would be regarded in law as "fair use". Fair use is judged particularly by two factors: what proportion of the total work you are quoting (e.g. quoting a few lines from a long novel would be OK, but a few lines from a short poem would not); and how you are using it (non-profit use tends to be better than commercial use).

Take a look at the following test for fair use before doing anything else. Ideally, the best thing to do is to provide a link to a page where the passage you want to quote has already been posted -- that way there's no potential for copyright violation. Ultimately, copyright violations posted here will cause Ship of Fools problems, so we reserve the right to delete quotes which we believe cross the line.

Here's the link. Scroll down to the four-factor test...

Fair use of copyrighted materials

Simon

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Jumble Sales of the Apocalypse

Posts: 3778 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged
Jengie jon

Semper Reformanda
# 273

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PaigeB

This is personal reflection. Asking the question shows that you are concerned over the quantity. The normal response is not to say that this is an infringement of copywrite but it is to provide undigested information. The normal approach when doing this is to paraphrase the passage, may be quoting directly some of the crucial passages and then provide a book and page reference back to the original source. This allows the passage to be interpreted in context of the discussion and the curious to actually check back to what the author.

Jengie

[ 08. August 2003, 08:31: Message edited by: Jengie ]

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"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge

Back to my blog

Posts: 20710 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged



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